Bayan on Demand offers a growing library of courses taught by highly regarded scholars and practitioners, designed for meted board members, school administrators, imams, chaplains, youth workers, parents, and more with classes on Islamic theology, adolescent development, non-profit management, and the history of Islam in America and more. Bayan on Demand provides accessible knowledge for just $10 a month. Join our growing community of learners today and support the work of Bayan Islamic Graduate School and the Muhammad Ali Scholarship. Go to baan online.org. That's B-A-Y-A-N online.org to get more information. May the peace that only God can give be upon you. I'm your host, Imam Tariq El-Amin, and welcome to the American Muslim Podcast presented by Bayan on Demand Today. Our guest is Sister Wendy Diaz. She's a writer, educator, and award-winning poet whose work empowers Latino Muslim families through language, education and faith. She's the co-founder of Hablamos Islam and a leading voice in Spanish language Islamic outreach. Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast, my sister,

for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

I always put this out before we get into conversation. We invite our guests to be as open, as transparent, as vulnerable, as they are comfortable being in sharing their stories. there's obviously great work or great value in the work that you do, and we say that there's just as much, if not even greater value in the journey that brought you to the work that you do. So that being said, can you take us back to a formative moment, something that was, that you could look at that was impactful, that kind of set you on the course that you're on today?

Absolutely. First and foremost was of age nine. I'm feeling blessed to be here. This is my 25th year as a Muslim. Mm. Something impactful. I was just at the icna Convention this past weekend and I had a session, called Authors Corner where we were talking about, becoming authors and what gotten, what has gotten us into our writing journey. And one of my reflection was, was about how I came to the US from Puerto Rico. Mm-hmm. A lot of people don't know that my family is a military family. So my father was in the Army and we ended up moving to the mainland, US from Puerto Rico. And I didn't know any English at the time. I was in, I was going into third grade, so I was about maybe eight or nine years old. And, my first experience going into a school, they, they threw me into a regular classroom. There wasn't any ESL and this was on a military base, this elementary school. And it just so happens to be that, at my teacher was Mexican American. And she was able to take me by the hand and kind of show me step by step how to, speak in English. And one of the things I was telling the audience is that my first experience trying to read English because the, the teacher, she wanted me to sit in, in the regular reading circles with my classmates and take on these, these reading lessons, even though I didn't know any English. So she would tell me to read, from a textbook and I had no idea what I was doing because I didn't know the language. But she would just tell me read. And I, that first experience, I told her I don't know how to read. And I was thinking, you know, this whole scenario is very similar to. The, what we know of the first revelation to the prophet Moham where he was told to read and he said, I can't. Right. I can't, I'm not a reader. I'm not a recit. And, and this is the same response that I had for my teacher at the time. I don't know how to read, but she told me, just do it. And and I'll correct you. So every single letter that I would read in English, I was pronouncing it in Spanish. And then little by little, she would correct every single one with so much patience until I was able to read fluently. And this took only a matter of few weeks. And that's how with, with children, they learn so quickly. And after I, I learned how to read, she took me to the school library and she showed me a little shelf of, of books and she said, I want you to read all the books on this shelf. And the impact of that, I mean, it's still with me to this day because that was what I. What began for me this journey of reading and what eventually became writing because I loved reading so much, because of this gesture, that this teacher did. And so for me, I think Ed educators have such an impact on children, and it, it set me on this course I think that I am today because once I started reading and, and seeing, I started off with, all kinds of, of books. Started off, with small chapter books, you know, early chapter books, and then moved on and then I, I started getting interested in all kinds of topics. Even as a young child, I started reading Greek mythology and Roman mythology and just absorbing all of this knowledge that I didn't have access to when I was in Puerto Rico. And then eventually, after a few years, it's may have seemed like a long time for me at the time, but I mean, fast forward to maybe six years later at the age of 15. I go into a book exchange in Savannah, Georgia. By that time I was in another state, and there was a book there that, that was calling my name on the table. It was the Autobiography of Malcolm X. Hmm. And and going from this military family, my, my father was deployed to the Persian Gulf War, what they called Desert Storm. That was in the early nineties. Mm-hmm. And then, and then to be in that environment and then to now be introduced to Islam through reading, after being taught to read by, by this Mexican American teacher on a military army base, it, it, it's just surreal how, how that changed the trajectory of my life.

Mm. Mm-hmm. So you said it's been 25 years for you. Did language play, or what role did language play in the way you. Perceived or engaged with, with religion that has brought you to where you are today?

A great question. I, I start, I started off, as a Catholic. My family was a Catholic family, so I was raised in this very traditional Catholic home. Went to Catholic school in Puerto Rico, went to Sunday school, did the communion and confession and all of the, those sacraments until up until I was a teenager. Mm-hmm. But then I eventually pulled away from, from, the Catholic church after we moved around quite a bit in the us and we didn't really find a community that we could resonate with. And language definitely played a big role, and I think that I had at least a solid foundation. And of course, you know, we, we know that the creator has, has, I created all these languages and, and cultures that we can, get to know and, and learn about. And, and I think that coming from the Spanish language and this very Catholic background opened up, I think new doors for me to really explore. Okay, now that I'm here in the us now that I'm speaking English, now, I, I have an, an another world that's opened up to me, that perhaps I wouldn't have been, introduced to while I was in Puerto Rico. And so I think that definitely be becoming bilingual, opened up that other door. And then of course now with the Arabic language, you, you have, you know, even more doors opening as a Muslim. Because of course once you become a Muslim, then you start to, to learn the Arabic language and then you start to see some connections, especially with Spanish. Yes. A lot of people don't know how much an influence the Arabic language has on the Spanish language. So many words. And it was amazing to me when I started to practice Islam and, hang out with Muslim friends, especially those that came from Arab country, miss Egyptians especially. The family that introduced me to Islam was Egyptian, and I would hear them speak and there was a certain familiarity that I couldn't really understand that the time I was like, why does this language sound so familiar?

Mm-hmm. And

it is like it spoke to my heart. And then the more I learned about the background, the linguistic background of Spanish and what the influences were and the Muslim's presence in, in Spain, in southern Spain, andous, and also in West Africa. And all of, and Puerto Rico being one of the first places that was colonized by Spain, right? So this introduction of, of all of these Islamic influences in the language has really had an impact on me, and I'm still discovering gems. That are just amazing, in the language, just in the language itself.

Yeah. There is this definite beautiful diversity. It's not always recognized in, in my opinion, When you talk about the difference of language and how language is attached to culture and and how we get this wonderful opportunity as Muslims to bring those things together, what are some of the things that you find yourself seeing as distinct points of your own cultural, offering into into diverse Muslim spaces?

I think but coming back to that language, it's not, and it's not just the vocabulary and the language structure, the grammar and things that, that are impactful, but also some of the sayings. And some of the traditions that have been passed down. And I think that's where people like me can come into the Muslim community and and, and, and be a bridge between cultures, right? Because we don't see as many Latinos in the, in the Muslim community, even though it's a growing it's a growing demographic for sure.

Mm-hmm. But

I think we kind of camouflage ourselves and we, we kind of just integrate into the communities, but we still need more education in Islamic spaces on, on what it means to be a Latino and what, how much of an influence Islam really has on our culture. And like, I'll give you an example. One of the things I, I learned just maybe a year ago I was watching a, a video about Aldo. And Aldo is the Spanish language used to be written with Arabic characters by some of the, the Muslims in Spain. Especially after during the, the time of the Inquisition and things like that, they were, trying to hide messages in the Arabic script, so they would be actually, writing Spanish in Arabic. And so Ello is this, is this whole, it's almost like another language really. I mean, it's Spanish, but written with Arabic text. And so there was a professor who's from Puerto Rico, who is not Muslim, but she specializes Indo. And she was explaining to it on explaining about it in this Puerto Rican talk show. And she said a phrase that just clicked with me automatically. She said that the way that we read Aldo is s literally means the opposite way of the Christians. And that is a, it's a very common phrase to use in Puerto Rico when you're talking about something that's backwards. Like if you just put on your shirt backwards, someone's gonna tell you, oh, you put your shirt on in a backwards way. And and then it clicked. I said, the reason why we say that is because what's anos would mean Arabic is, is red from right to left rather than from left to right. And so that's where that came from. And I've been hearing that phrase my whole life and I never understood, okay, why do we say that? And so it was just amazing to me. And automatically, I mean, I immediately, I made a video about it and I posted it on my social media because it's like, wow, I want everyone to know this. Because no one would, would ever even think, stop to think about it. Right. We have idioms and things that we say every day, but we don't stop and think, where did this come from? Right, right. So that's it.

That's it's incredible. Yeah. That, that's fascinating. Alro. That's what it's called. El Alro. Yes. Okay. Ro. Alright. Alright. Ham. You know, I had the my family, we visited, Puerto Rico, some years ago. And my, my daughters were still young. And one of the things that I noticed was from a, how we are very much conditioned in the west to see ourselves along phenotypical lines, right? If you are dark, you're black. If you're light, you're, you know, you, you're considered white, right? And from the African American experience, we are in all colors. And when I went to Puerto Rico. I saw families that looked like very much like my own family. 'cause I have, my mother is, very light, maybe about, about your complexion. And my father's, a little bit lighter than me, you know, so he is kind of a darker brown. And I saw families that you just saw this kind of a, rainbow, right? You know, this wonderful representation. And I bring that up because when you talk about being a bridge, how you all, how you feel, as a

Latino,

Muslim, but do you see this kind of a sensitivity or maybe an awareness that supersedes some of the, the boundaries, these enforced kind of lines that we have on us in society here that you feel kind of aware of? Or what do you, what are your thoughts about that?

Alah? you know, I've said this before, but I really have to stop and think about it, but I, I've told, before that I didn't experience racism until I moved to the us, but I'll tell you, I did notice that there was colorism, but not in the way that it's, that it is here. And, and I, and it's, and I'll tell you how, over there in Puerto Rico, you do have some, internalized. Racism, internalized colonialism, right?

Mm-hmm.

That, that mindset, because over there, there was a caste system during colonial times, right? You, the European, the European born Spanish people were on the top of the hierarchy, right? But then you had Europe, you had Spanish people that were born in Puerto Rico, and so they were of a lower status. Mm-hmm. And then you had the Spanish people that, that mixed with indigenous, and then they were a little bit lower. And so there, there was this system, and of course, at the bottom you had the enslaved Africans, darker complexions, or the ones that, that were mixed with indigenous and so on. Yes. That. So we have remnants of that. And so you, you'll have phrases like, you know, we say some, some of my, my family would say something like, even though those that are darker in complexion, they'll talk about Malo and El Malo is bad hair.

Bad hair,

and meaning coarse or coily hair. Versus el, which is the, the straight hair. Mm-hmm. So you, you do have things like that that you, you hear about growing up, but then here in the US it's a different type of, of racism. it's a, it's, and it, it goes against any type of of color whatsoever over there in Puerto Rico. Everybody's Puerto Rican,

right?

And we have, we have poets and singers and artists that have, brought to light the fact that all of us are Puerto Rican, all of us are from the same culture. And there's this famous and I, i'm gonna forget the name right there, right now at the moment. But there's a, a poet who, who talked about this in this famous poem where he says it, it's called, and it's called, it Means, and Where's Your Grandma at? And the whole, the, the whole point of his poem, he talks about you hide away your grandmother in the kitchen so that people don't see because you, you present as white. But you know, let me ask you like, where's your grandma at?

Wow.

Because we, because his grandmother is a black woman, right? And so in Puerto Rico you have that, you have that mixture. My father's side of the family, it, it, they, they are darker complexion, right? Mm-hmm. And they have more co hair. My mother's side of the family, my grandfather came from, culturally Italian, but. Under the, under French rule at the time. So he came from Corsica there, he had green eyes. Right. He had light brown hair. So my mother's side of the family is lighter complexion. My grandmother's ancestry is from Spain. So you have these mixtures and I'm, I, I would say that I'm a, I'm an average Puerto Rican, right? Because we, we pull from all cultures and the DNA test will tell you that we're a third African, a third European, and a third indigenous, pretty much. And then we have a lot of North African mixed into that. And West yeah, north and West African. But then you come here to the US and I'm gonna tell you something that happened to me, with my father. As a matter of fact, my father is a little bit darker than I am. We went, we were living in Georgia at the time. And at that time before I converted to Islam, I was looking for a church because we had just moved to this new area and we were driving home and I saw that there were two churches on this, this main road, getting to get to our, our house. There were two churches side by side. One of them was very old and kind of broken down, and then the other one looked newer. And so in my mind I thought, maybe this is the same church, because they're literally side by side, a parking lot in between them. And I said, maybe this is the new church. And then this is the older church that they probably, they probably built this newer one. So I told my dad, maybe we can come here on a Sunday. And so my father took me to this church. So we went together, just he and I, and we said, we're gonna go into the newer building because obviously this is probably the one that, that everyone's going to. And we happened to walk in and there was already a service going on, on, on this Sunday morning. We walk into this church. And there's a sea of white faces. They all turn around to look at us. And a man gets up and he quickly comes to us and we're thinking, okay, he's gonna help us go and sit down. And instead he said, if you're looking for the black church, it's over there. And he pointed to the church across the parking lot and immediately, I mean, we just stumbled out of it. He walked us out and kicked us out of church in the middle of a service. Wow. And that was one of the worst experiences with racism that I ever had in my life. And I, I wrote about this experience and, and in an article that it's titled how Racism, led me away from Christianity because after that incident, I never went back to a church again. And I'm not saying that the reason why I left Christianity was because of that. But I had, I was already on my way out and that just kind of was the, it just was the nail, the what, the last nail on the coffin they say. Mm-hmm. But it was, it was incredible. I'd never experienced anything like that. And in Puerto Rico, like I said, everyone is Puerto Rican. Even when I go to Puerto Rico with my hijab on, I'm still just a Puerto Rican with a scarf on my head, and I'll go with my family and we feel better walking the streets there. And we don't feel that, that Islamophobia, that we feel here immediately. When we, when the last time we went to Puerto Rico, we came back as soon as we landed, we had a layover in Atlanta. As soon as we got into that airport and walked out, we could feel the tension in the air. The way that people perceive us here, the way that people look at you, it's just completely different. And like I said, is there anti-blackness in, in, in Latin America? Absolutely. In Puerto Rico, in the Caribbean, not as much. I would say not as much because we have more of a mixture. But at the same time, the racism that exists there and here, it's just a totally different beast SA law.

Yeah. Yeah. This is this is top notch racism in the us

Yeah. It's just another breed of it.

it is. How has, well, before I go into that question, let me ask this. As you said, when you go back to Puerto Rico, you're just a, a Puerto Rican with a hijab one. But here with a demographic that is growing very quickly, right. Spanish speaking Muslims, how do you feel your. How do you feel you are perceived? Are you perceived as, oh, this is a Puerto Rican Muslim? Because of these phini phenotypical lines, you know, we are looking at folks and we're always looking to try to put somebody in a particular box. Are people putting you in the wrong box?

Yes. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the, in the Muslim community themselves, especially I would say maybe from immigrant backgrounds, they're not familiar with people from other countries, especially in Latin America. So automatically people associate anyone who's Latin American with Mexican. So if you're from Latin America, then you are Mexican. That's it. We've gotten that a lot. My family and I, my husband is from Ecuador, south America, and he gets it a lot. There was an incident in Ajid where there was a sheikh that came and he was giving a talk and he cracked a joke about Mexican people. And then one of the brothers that was sitting in the audience close to my husband gets up and said, we've got a Mexican right here. And it was so ignorant. Wow. But it was one of those things that just happens at the moment and you just kind of look and you can't do anything about it. And just the moment just passes and you're just left there in, complete disbelief and speechless. So those are the type of the, of things that happen. I had one brother argue with me because he asked me where I'm from and I said, I'm from Puerto Rico. And he said, Portugal? And I said, no, Puerto Rico. And he said, yes, Portugal. And I mean, I left that conversation as yes, I am from Portugal. So, so you have that you know, that, that ignorance about different countries and cultures, even within our own co countries, in, in, in Latin America, there are different cultures within the country itself. And, and not everyone in Latin America is Spanish speaking. We have indigenous languages, we have Portuguese, we have even English in Belize and things like that. So There's a lot of things that people just don't know. And I feel like, well, that's okay. Us here to get to know one another.

That's right.

And, but it's, but we have to be willing to listen and we have to be willing to let that information come in. And we also have to be willing to understand that, that, that all of us are worthy of learning about Islam and being Muslim no matter where we're from, because we, unfortunately, we've gotten that as well, that people think if, oh, you're Puerto Rican, you can't be Muslim. I've had people tell me that, and, you know, or they'll tell my children when they were in Islamic school, some of them, their, their friends would make fun of them and say, oh, you know, bring tacos for, you know, multicultural day. And my children are like, we don't eat tacos. We're from Puerto Rico and Ecuador. We don't eat tacos, but people just don't put two and two together. Even the teachers would, would make statements like that. I think we all need to be willing to, to really just, try and, and learn from each other and open up spaces, safe spaces so that we can all have these conversations.

Your experience you mentioned this as a formative experience for you as a child, learning to read the English, the pronunciation of the English letters. And do you feel that you've taken some of that, that experience with you or the, the patience, right? The investment that's, that is required, To teach. Have you taken that with you even. Like, I know you've written for children, right? But do you sort of also kind of take that same view in dealing with adults because, you know, we're all just big children in, in, in some ways. But has that shaped the way that you engage or you teach?

Absolutely. So one of the things, we were talking about language before I did become a Spanish teacher. I, from, you know, I went to, when I went to undergrad, that's my major was in, modern languages and linguistics focused on Spanish language and education. And so after I finished my undergrad, I, I went into teaching Spanish at a public school. So language teaching languages to me has, has been very important. And my, my philosophy is for second language acquisition, reading rhyme and repetition. Because I learned that from a young age reading rhyme and repetition. And to me, that's why I find the Koran so fascinating because it contains those elements of repetition, of rhyme, right? and we're encouraged to read it over and, and you still find gems, right? And even in your recitation. So definitely it has influenced the way that I approach people and the way that that I, that I teach others. And speaking of repetition, I feel like sometimes I feel like people get tired of me because I'm always talking about these same issues about Latino Muslims and you know, I'm just like driving these points home and people, yeah, they must be tired. They're like, sister Wendy's always talking about this, but somebody has to. Somebody has to. And yes, I'm going to continue to repeat it, and I'm gonna continue even to rhyme it because I've written poetry about it. And I hope that, you know, s something that I say can just get embedded in, into some minds and open some minds out there.

How do you choose the medium? How do you choose whether or not you are going to, I guess, write to a, write to a particular point? If you're going to, approach it through poetry what is the, what is the process like? Is that conscious or is that just you, you just make yourself open to let out whatever Allah has for you?

Without sounding my, my teenagers would say cringe. it chooses you, right? Okay. It chooses you because when it comes to writing it, it really is an art form. And sometimes it's just born of inspiration. So whenever I have written poetry, it can't be forced. I was talking about this too in this author session at, at the icna convention. It can't be forced you, if you, there were people in the audience that want to become authors or they're aspiring authors or they're already, you know, writing. And I told 'em, if writing is not your thing, don't force it. You don't have to become a writer. But El Ada gives us different talents to use for his cause, right? And so I think with writing, I find it therapeutic. The way that I approach writing is I write for a parenting newsletter for sound vision, and that's a weekly endeavor. So every week I'm writing at least one article or every two weeks an article about parenting, from an Islamic perspective. And so that keeps me busy writing, and I feel like I, I love to do that because I, I'm writing from my experiences, I'm taking what I know and then also researching and coming up with something that I find. That I think might be useful to other parents out there. But then when it comes to poetry, sometimes it's just an experience, it's a question, it's something that happens during the day that just makes me want to write it down and, and, and put some words and feelings into it. But it doesn't always happen. And I'll tell you an example I had, there was a call for poets to put something together about the situation that's happening, as we know in Palestine and caa. And, so that someone contacted me and said, can you write something about this? And I sat with it for a long time and I did write two pieces, but I felt like I, I couldn't even put into words because it's, the pain is just so raw. the thing, the emotions are so raw that everything that's happening, it was, it's just how do I even. Describe any of this into words, how, how do I put this into words? How do I describe it? And it was really difficult. So I think no one can really tell you how to or when to write poetry. I think it's something that just comes. But other things like children's books and things like that, those come out of necessity for me. I feel like if there's something that's missing on a bookshelf, then this is my job to put it there. Especially when it comes to representation of LA Latinos in Islamic literature, or representation of Latino Muslims in just mainstream literature. I wanna try to, to fill that gap because we know that there aren't. Many right characters, and especially coming from own voices, we say own voices, literature, meaning that I, myself, as a Latina, Muslim, I'm going to write about the experiences of Latino Muslims, but I don't want someone else that, that has no clue about my background or about the background of, of the other Latino Muslims around me to be writing us and into their story and just ticking off a diversity box because that happens, right? Or you'll have someone writing in, you know, just they wanna just put an African American person on the illustration or on the cover, or as a main character, just because they feel that that's what people want. No, this is should be coming from here, right? From your heart. It should be something that you feel, that you experience, that you know, so that you can be authentic. It's important to be authentic in your writing and in your art.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think that really speaks to the, the marketplace of content creation, and people thinking that, okay, I can, I'll put some of this in there. I'll, I'll talk about these particular, this particular group, and I'll get some hits for this. But it's not content with conscience. or with sincerity to, to be, you know, to be pretty blunt about it. The work that you do, with as a Spanish content, was a Spanish content coordinator for icna. How has that work informed your how has it informed your, or added to your understanding of the Latino, Muslim, presence? Here in the United States, of America, well and beyond. And you know, I know we're talking about North America, right? But how, how was, how was it, how is it, contributed to that?

Y some and icna, they do, they've been doing so much work. They, sometimes it goes unnoticed. But for example, I started volunteering for them in 2005. I had just gotten married and moved from Maryland to New Jersey and their main headquarters are, is, is in New Jersey. And so they were doing these these information booths, these setting up these DA tables, outreach tables, information tables in different locations, especially in the malls, up in New Jersey. And they needed people who spoke Spanish. And by that time, I've been Muslim, what, five years. and I understood the need for that because even here in Maryland, I was doing that because once you, you become Muslim, the first people that wanna know. And want information is your family members and my family members being mostly back home and not speaking English. So you, you start scrambling for resources. And so what did I find? You find the Y Ssam has all of these brochures and things in Spanish. They have Spanish koans that they give away for free for anyone that's looking for information. And so when we moved to New Jersey, they were having these, these information booth and they said, we need people who speak Spanish because when we're here setting up in this mall, we have these Spanish speaking people that will come to the table and they're looking for answers. So they need somebody that speaks the language. And so I, I've been with them since and that's 20 years. And I've I've tried to walk away from, but you can't walk away from da work. You cannot walk away from it because it's something that, that all of us are passionate about because we understand how important it is. I have, I'm still from my side of the family, not speaking on my husband's side, but on my side of the family, I'm still the only Muslim. My, my parents are not Muslim. My, my only brother that I have is not Muslim. My niece and nephew are not Muslim, you know, and all my cousins and my aunts and uncles re I've met, I have a couple of cousins that, that converted to a Simon. That's wonderful. And they're, but they're distant cousins. I'm talking about immediate family members. And so the importance of that work, the importance of, of continuing on and, and to have that content available. And how far we've come. If you think back about, 20 years ago until now, how much more we have in terms of, of educational materials, in terms of Spanish language literature. But there's still a lack of it. There is still a lack, so there's a lot of work to do. So that's one of those things you have to just continue doing it until, you know, we, we breathe our last breath in Shaah

Shaah. So would you say that that represents one of the bigger challenges that the amount of work that needs to be done and the amount and the number of people that are able to engage in it?

Absolutely. There aren't even in the us we have a lot of Spanish speaking people. And some also, some Latin Americans do not speak Spanish, but they also need information that resonates with them. So you'll find that even though they don't speak Spanish, they still want to hear about Islam from another Latino because we share that same background and we can present the information in a certain way, and then we can also reach their family in different ways. Right? We know what it's like to grow up, in a, in a Latino family. We know what, what their parents are thinking and their, you know, their family members are thinking and the things that they may be going through that someone else may not be able to understand, especially from the immigrant community. so we're able to work with them more in that sense. And then as far as work to be done and what are the obstacles always the same with nonprofit work. It's the funding, right? And the lack of manpower because you don't have funding. And because people are, are working and because there is a recession and because, people have to, to kind of. They have limited time to be able to dedicate to this, but the people who are doing the work, they are completely dedicated and they are putting in time, that sometimes they don't even have, right? Because they are working regular jobs and then they're coming back after work and putting in time for this. So it's, it is incredible the things that go on behind the scenes. And that's why I say Wise Islam and, and Igna, has been doing amazing work. There are other organizations and including Latino organizations all around the US more than two dozen that I can count, that are doing work in their communities and that deserve that recognition and the resources as well.

Yeah, that feels like a, a constant refrain from folks that are doing work in community, that is volunteer based particularly that's volunteer based, Concerns about sustainability, concerns about, the spirit matching the need. may I make it easy, for all of us? Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm in the same boat. So when it comes to, I, I wanna lift up from the bayan. Recently they had you I didn't mention this in the opening, but congratulations again, completing the Master of Islamic Studies at Bayan Islamic Graduate School. And we got an opportunity to listen to, to some of the graduates. And you were one of the graduates that came up and shared a few words with us. And I wish I had that audio. 'cause I would just, that would be a great little soundbite just to throw out there. But, but. But, but you said it and I felt this, it resonated with me in that, and I think maybe in a different way than it may have resonated with others. Well, I can't speak on how it resonated with anybody else, but you said we are coming for you. Talk about the Latino, Latino Muslims we're coming for you. Talk about, tell us, unpack that a bit for us. Yeah,

so I've been, I've been doing, research, first of all, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I've been doing research on the Latino community for many years, but especially part of my research while I was at Bayn, was on Latino Muslims from, gen X and the early millennial Muslims because I was tired of seeing news articles and, and, and even academic literature focusing on only the phenomenon of. New conversions to Islam and what drives Latinos to convert to Islam. Like why would they ever wanna convert to Islam, being that they're already a minority, so why would they wanna be a minority within a minority? Within a minority? So it gets old because you keep on seeing these same news articles. So I wanted to really, focus more on what are the contributions that Latino Muslims have made in the past 20 to 30 years that they've been practicing Islam And just from Gen X and early millennial, I'm not even talking about baby boomer, Latino Muslims that exist and their children and their grandchildren. Right. Because I had to kind of narrow it, narrow my study down. And so I found, that in, in my research that first of all, I think it's one out of five American Muslims is. Was not raised Muslim. So one out of five American Muslims had to choose Islam at some point in their life, they had to convert to Islam or they had to begin practicing Islam. and also the fact that in 20, yeah, this figure in 2022, the ISPU said that nine, what was it, 12% of American Muslims identified as Arab, while 9% identified as Hispanic or Latino. And I just found that so fascinating. And there was a pie, a pie graph to go with that statistic and you could see the two, the two pieces of this pie. And there were so close. And that's why I said, we're coming for you because Latino muslims are growing and and there is no, that growth is not slowing down. This has been happening since the nineties.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And especially after September 11th. Yeah. That, that number has, has grown exponentially. And so the reason why I said that is because what are we doing in our communities to make space for Latinos, to have them sit at our tables, to have them be part of the decision making process so that we offer resources to their neighbors and their families, right? Mm-hmm. When someone converts to Islam, it's not just one individual. You have that whole individual's family that is now going to have some type of contact with the Muslim community, right? Right.

That

that individual may have children, right? And those children, what are we doing to help transition them into Muslim spaces, right? Mm-hmm. How are we making these spaces welcoming? And, and I think that's something that we really, the Muslim in, in, in the US really need to be thinking about.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Do you see a replication of the, the, there's a formula for the acquisition of power or influence in society, and whether that be through, organizations, corporations there's a particular hierarchy that often exists. And some might say that we also see that modeled within the Muslim communities because, you know, we're, we're not monolithic. And that making space is a for others, Jeopardizes the idea or, you know, the, the power that, or influence that some might feel that they have. Do you feel that there's any validity to that?

I mean definitely I understand what you're saying and it, it is completely true and realistic to think that there is a, a power dynamics at play there. But one another, going back to that statement of we're coming for you. I've had, I've known of families that their children and my children were in the same Islamic school and, you know, way back when, and now my, my oldest is 18 and their oldest is, they're also at that age. And some of them, although they were coming from immigrant families or second gen, second generation or something from the subcontinent for instance, or they were Arab families that, that perhaps in that, a few years ago would've said, oh yeah, our children are going to marry, you know, their cousin back home, or they're going to stay, you know, within this, this circle. They've married, Latino Muslims, right? So I've known of several several, you know, Pakistani Indian, Arab Muslims who are now married, to Latinos or Latinas, and that's gonna continue to happen. So even if there are those power dynamics where, where, okay, we have this Bengali Maji and we don't, you know, and our board is consists of Bengalis only, and if we bring a Latino into this, it's gonna just throw off our power dynamic here. But eventually we're going to have to do this because you're, you're now, your families are marrying, intermarrying with, with this group. And more and more we're, we're going into your spaces. So eventually you just have to give in, right? You, what is it? You either, how does that go? If you can't, you can't fight 'em. You join, what is it?

Yeah. You can't, can't beat 'em. Join them,

can't beat 'em. Join them, right?

Yeah.

So, yeah, you have to, you have to make space eventually, or else you're gonna get kicked out of your space. So it's either you make space or you're gonna lose your place.

Yeah. Yeah. There's that

rhyme again.

Yeah. It's helpful. It's helpful. You know, I just, I often, and I have to, I have to bounce these things off of the pe other people to make sure that I'm not just, I don't know, being myopic or, you know, I have not, I'm not in a moment where I, I'm jaded and I need to pause for a second, but I often see the same kind of dynamics and struggles that are going on in larger society American society, playing out within our Muslim communities, right? So we see this pushback against, non-white. Folk. And our, the policies, you know, the, the deportations, the, attack, DEI, and just this idea of we wanna make sure that we keep ourselves, in power, in, in a, in a position of authority. We don't want to be challenged. We, we are absolutely against the browning of America, which has been forecasted and likewise as, as black and brown, demographics continue to, to grow, particularly those indigenous to, you know, within the states. And like how, how do we respond to that? Do we lose sight of the, the larger mission that should be driving us, right? Which is not about what's, you know, what profits me as an individual, but what profits, humanity, and yeah. So I, I see. I see us as a kind of a microcosm often of what's going on in the larger society.

Absolutely. And I've seen it's unfortunate that I've seen some of the rhetoric that you hear in the news and you hear from certain politicians, being echoed in our spaces. for example, there was an incident, and a very unfortunate incident with that had to do with an immigrant I believe it was a Salvadorian man, in Virginia who attacked and killed a Muslim. Yeah. Yes. You remember that, right? Mm-hmm. And, and it was, it was a despicable crime that happened. But then what I saw as well is that people began to attack, and I'm talking about Muslims in forums online and things began to attack all La Latinos and Hispanics and saying, and echoing that same rhetoric like. These immigrants are criminals. They're coming from the border and they're, and this is what they do. Some of the same, even the same words that, that the current president has used. Like, they're, they're rapists, they're criminals, they're gang members, and so on, and just generalizing. And, and it was unfortunate to see that, because of this incident that occurred. And it just happened to be that this person was a hi, a Latino person that committed this crime. But we can't, we can't be guilty of the same things that we are. We are accusing others of being towards us. We don't want people to ha be Islamophobic. So we in turn cannot be xenophobic. Mm. Right. We can't be Hispanic hispanica phobic, there is such a thing as his Hispanic phobia. So if we really want that respect for ourselves and we want to be welcomed here, and we want, then we have to be welcoming to others. You know, because then we're, we, how are we any better than anyone else if we're, we're just doing the same thing to another people? I've also seen that in, in some of the massa, they'll have, Latino people come and, and clean do landscaping, or they come and they're the cleaning service for the ji. And then, they won't give them any brochures about Islam or they won't talk to them about Islam at all. So the people are coming into the JI and they're even cleaning the prayer area and they have no idea what the space is. And I feel like that's unfair because then what, what are we really doing? I mean, what do we think? Do we think that others are not worthy of the message?

Right?

And we can't think like that. Yeah. And that's why Ola says that he will not change the condition of a people until they change what's in themselves. Yeah. Right. So if we're not cleansing our hearts and changing all of that ugliness inside of us, then how can we expect to reap all the rewards outside? No. We have to do the work internally, and we have to do the work around in our communities so that we can get the, the reward and the blessing of Allah.

Mm-hmm. I mean, I want go back to the, is it the three Rs? Reading, repe, rhyming, repetition, and overlay that over your, the writing that you do for parents, parenting. You mentioned, you said your oldest is 18. So my, our oldest are 23 and. 21. Yeah. So we got a twin 23-year-old son. There are things that we kind of, we, we do as a matter of I don't know, as a matter of habit, as a part of our parenting, but when we're conscious about the repetition, when we're, when we're conscious about, how we are internalizing things, that's also an opportunity for us to engage it, engage what we're doing in different ways. Have there been moments in your writing that you're able to look at your own, parenting and say that, well, I've repeated this. I've, I've committed this kind of thing to memory. It's become kind of a part, of me. But I see it in a different way now and I'm able to share that in my writing with, for the benefit of other parents.

I think I, I, I joke and say that I think I, I have a, a PhD in, in parenting you have like your first child, that's your associates, and then you have your second one, you get your bachelor's third, get your master's fourth, you know, you are working on your doctorate. I've got six of them.

Oh, I do not,

no, no. I, and the reason I say that is because with parenting, every child is different. Every experience is different. And, and I've ha and I have them even now at different stages and ages. And, and it's just, it's a learning experience every day. And so, yes, okay. I've been parenting for, close to 19 years now, but I still don't know what I'm doing. and, and that's one of the things we have to be easy on ourselves as parents, to know that we're going, we're bound to make mistakes. and that's okay. And I, and I think that through my writing, I try to, I try to give that message to parents that, there are mistakes that we're gonna be making, but we have to pick ourselves up and we have to look towards the example of the prophet. We have to look into the Koran and the wisdom that, that it contains and use that as a framework. Even though, and, you know, I think the mercy, it's a, it's a mercy that there is no blueprint that is exact, that we have to follow. But there are things that we can do to have good character. We have to look at how the prophet AZA the had, lik he said that he served the prophet during his childhood. And he said, the prophet never said, oof to me. Right? He never said, why did you do that? Or Why did you not do this? And I know as parents we, we probably do this all the time, like they drop a cup and it, it spills on the floor and you're like, why'd you do that? Right. And so you kind of, and if that phrase comes out of your mouth, you remember that the prophets, he never said that to an been Malik.

Mm-hmm.

Even though he was a kid and he would go off, sometimes the prophet would send him off on an errand and he said that he got distracted and he was playing with the other kids. And this was the prophet. Yeah. And so how, who are we to be harsh with our children and ask them, why'd you do this? And why, why didn't you do this when the prophet didn't do it? So I think that it gives us pause when we, when we learn our dean and we, when we learn these stories and it gives us something to reflect on and say, okay, you know what? Let me just let this go because I want to, to make sure that, that, that I'm displaying the best of character as a parent. and that my child also gets the same message. But it is a mercy that there isn't, that there, there isn't like a, there isn't a complete way that you have to follow because all the different cultures are different. Right. The way that we raise children, the way that, that our parents raise us and the way even back home, they would raise children everywhere is different. So at least we, we just have kind of like, some ground rules that we follow, but we can, you know, our cultures kind of can also dictate things as long as they're within the boundaries of our faith.

Hmm, Do you find, what kind of feedback do you get? is there a common response that you get or do you find yourself getting or receiving feedback that, that has surprised you in a good way?

With the parenting newsletter or

with anything? Well, anything, you know, however you choose to, but I was thinking about parenting,

we I haven't gotten too much. Feedback on the parenting other than, you know, just a thank you and things like that. I find it really useful. There's a whole arsenal of articles on, on sound vision, on parenting. And what I find, and I find it really useful because for instance, I'll be in a forum, on Facebook where you have like Muslim mothers, right? You have groups on Facebook or Muslim mothers or Muslim women in, in this area, in the DMV area, and they'll have questions about something related to something that has been written, or that I've written about on Sound vision. And so that I can go in, to the website and just drop that link and say, look, I wrote an article about this very question that you have. And so they'll be really grateful about that. Maybe they didn't, they've never been to sound vision to, to seek parenting advice, but it's always good to have a resource. There's like babycenter.com or something like that. I remember when I was pregnant that, that, that website was, was kind of like the holy grail of, of everything parenting. Especially as a new mom mm-hmm. Where you can go in and, and learn about what's happening in your pregnancy, even during the pregnancy and then after your baby's born. So we need those type of resources in the Muslim community too, right? We need to, to know what do we do when a baby's born? What do we do when our children are going through this phase or, or that phase? What milestones are we looking for as Muslim parents? And so, yeah, you do get good feedback on in that sense, where people say, oh, thank you. I, I, I didn't even know that this resource existed, but at least it's there, right? For whoever needs it.

Which area requires the most attention from you? Whether it's the Spanish language translation or parenting, or, or, or any other endeavor, you know, whether it be the creative, aspects. Is there a particular area that requires more intentionality and focus from you or that you would want to give more to?

Absolutely. I think the writing, children's literature mm-hmm. And producing, Islamic literature for, even for adults as well in Spanish. It's like, like I said before, it's lacking. Mm-hmm. It was lacking, 10 years ago, and now it's still lacking even though there is a little bit more. And that I do get a lot of feedback from an, and I think that's my motivation comes from those people that contact me from Mexico or from Venezuela or from Colombia or from Ecuador. They send me an email and they say, I just bought your book, or I just got your book and I'm able to teach my child about Islam

through

this book. That, to me, is the most rewarding thing that I could ever do, and it, it keeps me motivated because sometimes I have, I have a lot of self-doubt, right. I have the imposter syndrome and sometimes I've, I've told myself, you know, maybe I should stop doing this. Maybe, you know, I, I should move on to something else. Maybe I should focus on something else. Or maybe I'm not good enough to do X, Y, and Z. and in those moments is when I get a message like that and I feel like Ham la, like that's, that's Allah's way of, of helping me push forward, continue to do the work because there are people in other countries that have absolutely nothing to teach their child. Yeah. Imagine a person who converts to Islam and they have this small child, and there is absolutely nothing. There's no Islamic school. Sometimes there's not even a message close by and there's no books, there's nothing to teach their children. What are they, how are they going to do that? The only way is for you, for them to have access to some type of reading material, something that they can present to their child or even a, a program. I was doing a puppet show on, on online. I recorded puppet show episodes and I uploaded them to YouTube with. My husband's help my family's help. and even those were used in, in Islamic schools in Colombia. Mm-hmm. They would put them on a TV for the kids to watch. So that, that to me, I think it, it deserves the most attention. Absolutely. I wish that I could dedicate more time to it. I'm always, you know, in my mind I'm always like, I need to do more. I need to do more. I need to do more. Because there is just so much that needs to be done.

Yeah. First of all, may I continue to inspire you and keep you motivated because your service, the work that you do is extremely important. But I want to lift up something that you've said for me as a, as someone who also has the who has accepted the responsibility of leadership and I. In, in my limited capacity. and, and I believe that we all have, we all have to recognize what are the areas that we, that we provide leadership in. You said something I think is critically important, that really touched me. First of all, as a parent, you said, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a parent That resonated with me so, so, so deeply. And I think that's one of the things that, it, it really hampers us, many of us is not being willing to say, I don't know. I need help. Let me, you know, let me see what else is going out there. You know, I come from a tradition, where we say the wisdom is in the room. You don't have to carry it all yourself, ask questions. Also, one of my mentors, he said, the quality of your life is dependent upon the quality of the questions that you ask. Right. So what you said is an invitation for us to ask questions, and that's how we build community in those moments of vulnerability and sincerity. And the last thing that I wanted to point to that you said is about imposter syndrome. And I don't know a leader who does not deal with that. We all deal with that in at different moments. You're going into the unknown often, especially when you're, when you're doing work where there's not a roadmap where folks, you're not actually, you're blazing the trail. It's like. A if I'm not, if I don't do it, who's gonna do it? And if Aah gave me the inspiration to do it, then I gotta do it. I just want to, just to tell you how, appreciative I am for you to share those two things. And, who knows, they may wind up in this week's click by. I don't know if you have a response to that. Before I jumped on to the, to the next question.

I was gonna say, gi how impactful would it be if a Hatti got up on the bimba and said, I don't know what I'm doing today, y'all. I think it would definitely resonate with all of the congregation. We would all say yes the same.

that's right. We're all trying to figure this thing out. You know, Meah, meah preserve us. not me. As we start to, to wind down, I would like to ask you to, present you with an. Open-ended question. I think you may have alluded to this a bit earlier, but I'd like to hear it, maybe even restate it. The one lesson I keep learning is,

the one lesson I keep learning is that the more you learn, the more you realize that you don't know anything. Yeah. And definitely I think through my, throughout my journey at, at Bayan Islamic graduate school too, it, it was one of those things where, yeah, the more you learn, the more classes you take, the more you realize, wow, there, this is a never ending sea of knowledge and I don't even have a spritz

of it.

and and that really humbles you. Yeah. It really humbles you. and, and learning. Speaking of languages, again, learning Arabic language is, it's humbles you. Because it's not easy. It's not easy and it takes a lot of work and dedication and, students, it, it being a student is a lifelong endeavor. You're never going to learn everything there is to know.

that's right. Speaking of Bayan, I would be remiss if I did not ask you, was there a particular lesson or imprint that your experience at Bayan has made on you? Something that you carry with you?

There were a lot of things. A lot of things. But I noticed the character of some of my professors, and the character of some of my fellow classmates in just small things, that they themselves probably didn't think about, but it was impactful for me. And and that's a reminder for all of us that we never know what we do that can, inspire a person. And, I remember being in, in the classroom and just noticing that one of the class, one of my classmates that was sitting next to me during the class, as she's taking notes, as she's listening, she was constantly making Vic, and it was almost like breathing. It was, it, she was just doing it without thinking. and I, I thought to myself, and I saw that and I said, that's what I want to, that's what I'm aiming for. And I think that it really just says a lot to, to, to others. Your, your character and the way you carry yourself. You're, you're not just talking about what's right and what's wrong, you're actually doing. And when you do the work, people notice that person that was sitting next to me, she had no idea that I noticed what, what I noticed. I think she, and she was doing it secretively, her, her, her hands were down here under the, the desk. And so I, I don't think she, she realized. And so when you really are sincere and you, and when you're, doing work for the sake of Allah, people are gonna notice. and so we have to just try to work on our, on ourselves and our character and, and I think it'll show by our actions.

insha'Allah. Insha'Allah. One of the final questions before I ask you to share any ongoing projects or resources that you'd like to leave with our listening audience, and that is, what is your contribution to leadership? Or what do you intend for that? Or do you think about yourself as a leader and what you want to leave for the next generation that would follow you?

It's. That's a hard question. I never thought of myself as a leader. I feel like the most important thing, and, and I think there's something that's been ingrained in, in us as women, as Muslim women, is that our leadership is in the home, right? Our leadership is with our flock, our children.

Mm-hmm.

We have to lead by example and, and our children are, are our priority. And I would hope that I can lead my children by example and be a leader for them. I think that that is the most important thing, the most important legacy. At the same time, I understand that the work that I do has a certain impact and so I wanna make sure I do it with excellence. And that has to do with, with the books that I'm producing, the work that I'm, the writing that I'm producing and those things because. At the end of the day, I wanna leave a, a Sia. Right? Yes. That's the, the legacy that's right for us as Muslims, we wanna leave that Sia and it, and it's, it has to do with Right. It, the, your child that's left behind to make, to offer you, any charity that, that is ongoing and then any knowledge that you leave behind.

That's right.

And so I hope that whatever it is that I produce is something that's beneficial and it's gonna leave some form of knowledge behind that, that, that will, will benefit me in the hereafter. At the end of the day, we're working for the hereafter. Right. You know, and that, that should be the ultimate goal.

Thank you for that. Do you have any ongoing projects that you would like to share?

Still working on, on more books in Shaah. And I hope to produce some, some more, more serious work. Getting more into academic writing and, and teaching as well. In Shaah. I'm hoping to get into that. And and I also want to empower other Latino, Muslim writers, working on, on this with, with my family, with, with my husband, to establish, publications, high publications where we are going to help other, Latino, Muslim authors. We wanna start with Latino Muslims, right? Because of the lack of literature, from Latino, Muslim writers and with Latino Muslim representation. So we wanna work with Latino Muslims who are interested in producing this type of work. So we can pass the that baton to others as well, right? Because that's part of the, the work as well is to empower other people to do the same. so look out for that in Shaah, and whatever other doors, Allah opens and, and I'm able to walk through. Then I'm waiting to see what, what's in store in Shaah

insha'Allah sister Wendy, I really appreciate you taking the time to share a bit of your journey and your work, your perspectives with us. We are certainly better for it, so may I'll continue to to put Barika in your work. We have been talking with Sister Wendy Diaz, writer educator, award-winning poet, co-founder of Alamos Islam. And, we want to encourage you. If you find value in these conversations, to support the work of Bay Islamic Graduate School, and you could do that two ways. Over 70% of Bayan Islamic graduate school students are scholarship recipients. So you can go to bayan online.org and make a donation, a contribution, an investment in the Muhammad Ali Scholarship, and you can also join our community of learners. We have 32 classes that are available. Get your all access pass, $10 a month, bayan online.org. Join the community of learners at your own pace, and you will not look back. You will be, you'll, you will thank yourself. With that, we are going to close out. I'm your host, Imam Tariq El-Amin, and I leave you as I greeted you, ASUM, may the peace that only God can give be upon you. I.