1 00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:17,900 So, before we start today's episode, just remember that although I am a attorney, I am not your attorney and I am not offering you legal advice in today's episode. 2 00:00:17,910 --> 00:00:22,650 This episode and all of my episodes are informational and educational only. 3 00:00:22,650 --> 00:00:26,990 It is not a substitute for seeking out your own advice from your own lawyer. 4 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,790 And please keep in mind that I can't offer you legal advice. 5 00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:33,930 I don't ever offer any legal services, but I think I offer some pretty good information. 6 00:00:35,370 --> 00:00:41,110 One more thing before we get started, also remember that I am based in the United States, so that's what I'll focus on today. 7 00:00:41,130 --> 00:00:51,910 With that, let's actually get into it. 8 00:00:51,910 --> 00:00:55,000 Hey, guys. I'm so excited for you to get to listen to this episode today. 9 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,560 But before we get started, I have to ask for some patience and forgiveness and understanding. 10 00:01:00,580 --> 00:01:04,230 I am in the middle of a huge move, at least for me. 11 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:13,430 And you'll never believe this, but I left my podcast mic and all of my related stuff on my desk with a little note that said, "Do not pack. 12 00:01:13,430 --> 00:01:16,210 Do not take." And the movers took it and they packed it. 13 00:01:16,450 --> 00:01:20,950 Stuff happens. So, in the midst of all that, I was without my normal mic. 14 00:01:20,950 --> 00:01:26,860 And so, I apologize in advance when you listen to today's episode, it doesn't sound as good as it normally does. 15 00:01:26,860 --> 00:01:31,840 So, I promise you, if you're new to On Your Terms, this is not normally how things sound. 16 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:39,800 But I am also all about just being real and bringing you the episodes that you need that are full of value and helpful content. 17 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,640 But not today with the best audio. 18 00:01:41,650 --> 00:01:43,840 So, with that, let's get started. 19 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,290 Let's get into today's episode. 20 00:01:45,290 --> 00:01:47,080 And I so appreciate your understanding. 21 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,900 We'll be back to really good audio very soon. 22 00:01:56,710 --> 00:02:00,030 Hey, guys. Welcome to a brand new episode of On Your Terms. 23 00:02:00,030 --> 00:02:01,360 Today is a good one. 24 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,150 I get into all the PITA issues today. 25 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,610 Some PITA stands for pain in the *blip*. 26 00:02:07,870 --> 00:02:10,880 And so, we're going to talk all about PITAs today. 27 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:14,290 I wish they were the fluffy kind that I love from my favorite falafel place. 28 00:02:14,290 --> 00:02:16,240 But we're not talking about those kinds of pittas. 29 00:02:16,270 --> 00:02:24,790 We are talking about pain clients, clients who cause you actual headaches, clients who cause you a legal headache now or down the line. 30 00:02:24,790 --> 00:02:34,720 And the reason that this episode is so important is because you can have all the best legal stuff in place, you can have no legal stuff in place, and if you end up with a client like this, these are the clients who end up 31 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,010 being legal headaches. 32 00:02:36,010 --> 00:02:40,420 So, I want to help you in today's episode avoid this as much as possible. 33 00:02:40,420 --> 00:02:46,870 So, I'm going to go through warning signs, things for you to look out for, things that I experience myself. 34 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:51,310 I'm going to talk to you about when it's a good idea to cut bait and run from a problem client. 35 00:02:51,340 --> 00:02:59,170 We're going to talk a lot about prevention and how to avoid problem clients because I really just want you to avoid this as much as possible. 36 00:02:59,170 --> 00:03:09,070 At the same time, we're going to talk about how to kind of work through some of these situations when they come up, and not take them personally, or take them as meaning anything about us 37 00:03:09,070 --> 00:03:19,060 as a coach. And I talk with you a lot in today's episode about how normal this is, how this is something that everyone experiences, something that people at the top of the industry, at the bottom of 38 00:03:19,060 --> 00:03:20,340 the industry experience. 39 00:03:20,350 --> 00:03:30,280 And I just, more than anything, want to normalize these kinds of experiences with PITA clients for you today so that you don't feel any sort of way about you having these kinds 40 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,380 of interactions with people. 41 00:03:32,380 --> 00:03:40,810 So, with that, before we get into it, hopefully my voice holds out because I have been very sick for the last couple of weeks. 42 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:47,080 I wasn't able to talk or record any podcast episodes for, I would say, at least two-and-a-half weeks. 43 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,730 I'm just coughing, coughing, coughing like crazy. 44 00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:53,380 So, bear with me, my voice still isn't totally normal. 45 00:03:53,410 --> 00:03:58,060 I'm also in the midst of a move, so I'm moving from Philly to New York, which I can't believe. 46 00:03:58,060 --> 00:04:04,900 I'm a Philly born and raised girl, never left, and it's kind of wild to me, but you can follow along on Instagram. 47 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:05,920 That's been pretty fun. 48 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:08,130 So, I'm in the midst of all of that. 49 00:04:08,130 --> 00:04:13,630 And we've got a lot of fun stuff coming for you in the next couple of weeks at Sam Vander Wielen LLC, so keep your eyes peeled. 50 00:04:13,630 --> 00:04:14,830 Obviously, I'll announce it here. 51 00:04:14,830 --> 00:04:16,870 I'll announce it on Instagram. 52 00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:26,830 As you go and listen to today's episode, if it's helpful and you think that it would be helpful to your friends or your audience, please screenshot and share this episode on Instagram or your 53 00:04:26,830 --> 00:04:27,910 favorite social platform. 54 00:04:27,910 --> 00:04:31,180 Tag me @samvanderwielen so that I know and can reshare. 55 00:04:31,180 --> 00:04:35,200 And of course, after you've listened, please send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are. 56 00:04:35,260 --> 00:04:37,390 I'm always taking new episode requests as well. 57 00:04:37,390 --> 00:04:43,840 With that, let's get into it. 58 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:46,290 Hey there, and welcome to the On Your Terms podcast. 59 00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:56,080 I'm your host, Sam Vander Wielen, an attorney turned entrepreneur who helps coaches and online service providers legally protect and grow your online business using my DIY 60 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,200 legal templates and my Ultimate Bundle program. 61 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,450 So, on this show, each week, I bring you fresh tips about how to legally protect your business. 62 00:05:03,450 --> 00:05:11,630 But I also share about how to actually grow that business on your terms, because it is so important to me that you are doing things your way. 63 00:05:11,650 --> 00:05:14,410 I'm all about that here, and that is all about what you're going to learn today. 64 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:22,330 So, in this episode today, we're actually going to dive into a sticky topic all about problem clients. 65 00:05:22,330 --> 00:05:26,170 And can we just agree to call them PITA clients for the rest of this episode. 66 00:05:26,170 --> 00:05:29,360 So, PITA stands for pain in the *blip*. 67 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,610 So, I'm just going to call them PITA clients for the rest of the episode. 68 00:05:33,610 --> 00:05:37,990 I used to work with a guy at the law firm who called people PITA all the time, and I thought it was really funny. 69 00:05:38,260 --> 00:05:40,120 And I love pittas, so it works. 70 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:47,770 All right. So, in this episode, we are going to talk about how to spot problem clients coming down the pipe. 71 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,910 We are also going to talk about what to do when you've got a client who's a problem. 72 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,950 And maybe it's the old health coach in me, but I'm all about prevention. 73 00:05:56,950 --> 00:06:02,780 So, we're going to spend a lot of time today talking about how we can avoid this as best as possible. 74 00:06:02,780 --> 00:06:11,620 But I'm also super practical, and I've been through this myself, and I know that you can cross all your T's and dot all of your I's, and you can still land a PITA. 75 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:22,330 So, we are going to talk today about how to navigate these issues, how to legally protect yourself from these clients, how to legally protect yourself by avoiding these clients. 76 00:06:22,330 --> 00:06:32,290 The reason that I really wanted to have this episode with you today was because so many people will come to me for contracts, obviously, 77 00:06:32,290 --> 00:06:41,050 and website policies, and they ask me questions about business insurance, and they ask me questions about do I need an LLC or sole proprietorship? 78 00:06:41,050 --> 00:06:51,040 And the point is, and something I'm very honest about, is the fact that you can have all of this stuff in place and be "perfectly protected" or protected as you can 79 00:06:51,430 --> 00:06:59,340 be - which is the better saying when you live in America or work in America - and you can still have a PITA client. 80 00:06:59,340 --> 00:07:09,070 And that PITA client can still sue you or that PITA client can just be a PITA, and they can drive you nuts, and make you question why you ever started this business in the first 81 00:07:09,070 --> 00:07:11,590 place. I'm not speaking from personal experience. 82 00:07:11,590 --> 00:07:14,860 I'm just saying I could imagine a scenario where that would happen. 83 00:07:14,950 --> 00:07:23,350 So, I want to address this with you today because I am very honest about the fact that you can do all of the things right. 84 00:07:23,350 --> 00:07:33,220 You can get all my checklists off my website and check all those boxes, you can still end up with a client like this, and you can still end up with somebody who scares the 85 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:43,090 heck out of you, and you're afraid they're going to sue you, or they ask for their money back even though you've done all the work, or they sign up to work with you, and then they say to you, "Oh, I was just trying to work 86 00:07:43,090 --> 00:07:49,360 with you because I'm going to start my own business that's the same as yours." And, again, none of this is personal experience. 87 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,930 It's all just random examples that I picked from my head. 88 00:07:52,930 --> 00:07:55,080 But we all end up like this. 89 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,480 And we all end up experiencing things like this. 90 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:07,910 I think another reason I wanted to have this episode with you today is to normalize this, because - I don't know about you - but I felt a lot of shame when I had my health coaching business. 91 00:08:07,910 --> 00:08:11,500 When I first left the law in 2016, I started my health coaching business. 92 00:08:11,530 --> 00:08:14,770 I had a lot of PITA clients for all different kinds of reasons. 93 00:08:14,770 --> 00:08:17,800 I had a guy who bought sessions for his wife. 94 00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:20,620 And then, when his wife actually met me, she was like, "No. 95 00:08:20,620 --> 00:08:25,450 I'm good. I don't want it anymore." I had people who would just be rude. 96 00:08:25,450 --> 00:08:29,410 I had people who would be very demanding, not respectful of boundaries. 97 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,390 I didn't know how to set boundaries, either. 98 00:08:31,650 --> 00:08:41,170 So, you're going to see a lot of common themes today where we might be frustrated at how someone is treating us, but sometimes it's an invitation for us to look in the mirror as well. 99 00:08:41,170 --> 00:08:51,130 So, we have a lot of these experiences, and I don't want you to feel like there's something wrong with you as a coach, or as a provider, as a service provider thinking like, "I must not be a good 100 00:08:51,130 --> 00:09:00,820 coach if somebody's asking for their money back." Or, "I must not be good enough if someone is not respecting my boundaries." These things are so normal. 101 00:09:01,510 --> 00:09:11,410 Not only have I experienced it, and I can tell you from personal experience that these things are really normal, but I am telling you that I'm also on the receiving end of I don't even know how many text messages, and 102 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:17,800 DMs, and emails, and voice notes, and everything else from friends and colleagues and other people in the industry. 103 00:09:18,010 --> 00:09:28,000 The same people who are talking to about how much money they're making, how incredible their lifestyle is on Instagram, are the same people who are reaching out to me 104 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:34,730 in the DMs freaking out when somebody asks to have their money back on a $30,000 mastermind that they run. 105 00:09:34,730 --> 00:09:39,550 So, it happens to everyone, and I don't want you to take this as personal feedback. 106 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:49,680 Really, there are two things you need to take away from PITA client experiences, and then we're going to get into all of my tips for you about how you actually navigate these PITA people. 107 00:09:49,830 --> 00:09:52,950 And we're going to define what PITA people are. 108 00:09:52,950 --> 00:09:56,990 But, really, there are two things that come from this. 109 00:09:56,990 --> 00:10:01,080 One, is that this is an invitation for us to realize that we can't control other people. 110 00:10:01,530 --> 00:10:11,490 And sometimes you can do all of the things and check off all the boxes, just like I talked about earlier, and you can have the best intake forms and the best warnings on your website and disclaimers and all this kind 111 00:10:11,490 --> 00:10:13,340 of stuff, and you still end up with a PITA client. 112 00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:16,800 That's fine and it just happens. 113 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:25,260 But two, is that whenever you have a PITA client or you've experienced some sort of PITA client situation, it is always an invitation for us to look in the mirror. 114 00:10:25,590 --> 00:10:29,340 So, we are going to talk about that today, where have we, maybe, let things slip? 115 00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:31,440 Where have we not held our boundaries? 116 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,210 Maybe we do not have any at all? 117 00:10:33,210 --> 00:10:42,630 Where can we look at our language, our copy, our marketing messaging, whatever it is, our pricing strategy, even how are we and why are we attracting people like 118 00:10:42,990 --> 00:10:52,080 this? So, with that, I want to talk a little bit about how PITA problems, PITA clients, typically present themselves in our businesses. 119 00:10:52,080 --> 00:11:02,010 So, either you've got a PITA prospective client and then you're not sure whether or not you should take them on or you've got a PITA current client and you're not sure if 120 00:11:02,010 --> 00:11:03,390 you need to kick them to the curb. 121 00:11:03,390 --> 00:11:06,610 That's kind of the two main scenarios that I see. 122 00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:10,220 You can tell me whether you've experienced something different or you've experienced that as well. 123 00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:18,570 But if we all raise our hands right now, I bet everyone listening to this would be raising our hands as to whether any of us have ever experienced a PITA prospective client. 124 00:11:18,570 --> 00:11:28,350 And whether it's because your business is relatively new, or you're maybe going through a rough time, you're trying to build your business, or something like that, you're in need of building this 125 00:11:28,350 --> 00:11:38,030 business, you might feel tempted to take somebody on, even though your stomach is giving you all the intuition vibes of this is not a good idea. 126 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,730 This is not a good fit. Something's off. 127 00:11:40,730 --> 00:11:42,660 I feel like this person is going to be a PITA. 128 00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:47,580 But I need it right, or I need the experience, or it must be me. 129 00:11:47,580 --> 00:11:49,360 A lot of times we turn it on ourselves. 130 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,560 Or sometimes we think we're a hero and we think, "This person's a PITA. 131 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:53,650 I can fix them. 132 00:11:53,650 --> 00:11:59,880 I can help. I can overcome this situation." You mean well, but a lot of times that is what happens. 133 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:04,720 But the point is, you don't want to get in legal trouble when it's your client. 134 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,090 That's what we're most concerned about. 135 00:12:07,090 --> 00:12:16,320 When you've actually exchanged money with someone, you've worked with them, we don't want you to either get sued for something that happens from your work together. 136 00:12:17,070 --> 00:12:24,120 And what's way more common than getting sued is we don't want them asking for their money back after you've already performed the work. 137 00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:29,130 Or, alternatively, we don't want them asking you to do more work, although they've already paid you. 138 00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:35,880 That's another thing I see with PITA clients a lot, is that they will pay you the X amount of dollars and then they come back for more. 139 00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:36,930 They want more. 140 00:12:36,930 --> 00:12:46,410 And because people are frustrated and they feel guilty, or they feel shame, or whatever, they will be like, "Oh, I'll just give it to them." So, I see a lot of that in the PITA client 141 00:12:46,410 --> 00:12:47,790 world. 142 00:12:47,790 --> 00:12:54,240 When it comes to prospective clients, we are trying to prevent that scenario from ever happening. 143 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:04,020 And one of the things that I feel most frustrated about when I hear so many of these stories and my inbox fills up with these stories, is that, a lot of times when 144 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:12,240 you guys reach out to me, there is so much of like, "I knew this was going to be bad because -" or, "I should have known that this was going to be bad because 145 00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:17,050 this is how it started out. And she was a problem from the word go. 146 00:13:17,050 --> 00:13:18,720 And I took her on as a client anyway. 147 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:19,950 And then, what do you know? 148 00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:21,720 This ended up happening." 149 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:29,060 So, a lot of times people's spidey senses are tingling, but we're not listening to them for whatever reason, or we're not acting on them for whatever reason. 150 00:13:29,070 --> 00:13:33,540 And then, those are the clients that end up becoming legal problems. 151 00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:41,990 So, the reason that I'm doing this episode and the reason I'm talking about this with you today is because you can have all that legal stuff in order. 152 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:51,540 But if you are not listening to your spidey senses, or you don't have certain things in place to kind of filter out people and make sure that you're working with the right people, 153 00:13:52,020 --> 00:14:00,840 and you're standing up for yourself and holding those boundaries, I am telling you, those are the people that end up becoming the problem. 154 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,220 So, I remember when you become an attorney, you're primarily just concerned about billing. 155 00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:09,110 And so, you're just billing a million hours a month and it's a wild experience. 156 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:15,120 But I was a little businesswoman from the start, from when I was very young and I used to sell lemonade on the side of the road. 157 00:14:15,660 --> 00:14:19,780 But I was a little businesswoman and I wanted to build a book of clients. 158 00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:24,450 Like, I wanted to also have clients of my own, even as a young attorney. 159 00:14:24,450 --> 00:14:33,990 And these people would come into my life, whether it was through a personal connection or somebody I met at some sort of networking function, and they were always the most dysfunctional 160 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:35,750 situations. 161 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,420 And I would go to my boss and I would say, "Good news. 162 00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:41,130 I got this inquiry. 163 00:14:41,130 --> 00:14:46,150 This person wants to hire us as their attorney, and this is their problem, and this is what they're doing." 164 00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:51,620 And I knew in my gut that this person was a PITA, for lack of a better term. 165 00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:56,800 They were wild, and they didn't want to listen, and they were controlling or mean and angry. 166 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,020 I mean, everyone was a little bit different. 167 00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:04,660 But let's just say, like all of the alarm bells, all the red flags in the world were going off. 168 00:15:04,660 --> 00:15:07,220 And I was so desperate at the time to be like, "No. 169 00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:10,810 I can make this work." I just want to show the firm that I can do this. 170 00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:12,670 I want to show them that I can build this business. 171 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:14,290 I would take them on. 172 00:15:14,290 --> 00:15:18,970 Every single time, they would end up being a major problem. 173 00:15:18,970 --> 00:15:22,390 They would end up costing the firm something, ask for their money back. 174 00:15:22,420 --> 00:15:24,090 They would just fire us. 175 00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:27,850 It would just end up being not worth the amount of money they paid us at all. 176 00:15:28,010 --> 00:15:30,310 We lost money on the transaction. 177 00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:33,100 It was just a giant mess. 178 00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:42,910 And I thought that one of the things that I learned that was so helpful as an attorney was kind of like what you hear people say about dating - which I'm the last person to give dating advice, 179 00:15:42,910 --> 00:15:47,100 ever - when somebody shows you who they are, you kind of have to believe them. 180 00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:55,120 And so, maybe this is the Philly girl in me talking who has a little bit of a hard time letting my guard down sometimes and all of that good stuff, but bear with me. 181 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:04,930 I think that in business, if you are somebody like me who has a very quick intuition, has a very quick read on people, you get this gut feeling, sometimes you don't 182 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,540 trust yourself, and you go with like, "Oh, well. 183 00:16:07,540 --> 00:16:08,590 I should be doing this. 184 00:16:08,590 --> 00:16:09,670 I should take on business. 185 00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:10,900 I shouldn't turn people away. 186 00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:12,370 I have no right to turn people away. 187 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:22,960 I should be helping them. They need my help." If you're someone like that like I am, then this episode is really for you because we've really got to train 188 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,570 this muscle. This really is like a muscle. 189 00:16:25,850 --> 00:16:31,860 And as your friend, I will tell you, this is not something I expect for you to get right today. 190 00:16:31,860 --> 00:16:36,310 So, this is something just like dating, it is perfectly fine for you to stumble through. 191 00:16:36,610 --> 00:16:38,020 You can go in a couple of bad dates. 192 00:16:38,020 --> 00:16:40,290 You can have a couple of bad breakups. 193 00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:42,610 And there are going to be a lot of marriages in your future. 194 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,990 A lot of engagements to other client. 195 00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:46,180 And that is amazing. 196 00:16:46,180 --> 00:16:50,700 That's what you're shooting for. But in order to get there, you're going to have a lot of bad dates. 197 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:55,360 So, I just don't want you to feel like you've messed something up because you're not getting this right. 198 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,580 Or you thought you were doing things right and things are going well for a while and then a PITA client slips through the cracks. 199 00:17:00,580 --> 00:17:10,310 My business has grown so immensely in the last year or so, and we have PITA clients slip through the door because the business is so big now that I don't know who's coming in. 200 00:17:10,310 --> 00:17:15,290 So, it's always pushing me to look at things differently, to improve, to tinker. 201 00:17:15,310 --> 00:17:19,120 I am a huge fan of being a scientist and experimenting. 202 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:20,380 And I take it as feedback. 203 00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:21,460 I take it as data. 204 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,850 I take it as an opportunity for me to look at the business and see where the holes are. 205 00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:27,280 See where my holes are. 206 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,990 Or, also, just look up at the universe and be like, "Oof, PITAs. 207 00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:33,820 They just slip in sometimes." That just happens. 208 00:17:33,820 --> 00:17:36,010 It's okay. It really is okay. 209 00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:42,560 Well, what wouldn't be okay though is a PITA slipping through and trying to sue you, and that's is what I want to prevent, first and foremost. 210 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,890 Obviously, I also want to prevent them from ever asking you for their money back or something like that. 211 00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:51,610 So, this has so much less to do with them, with the PITA. 212 00:17:51,610 --> 00:17:53,640 I know I spent a lot of time talking about PITAs. 213 00:17:53,650 --> 00:18:00,760 This has less to do with them and more to do with you, and knowing who you are, what you do, and what you will tolerate, a.k.a. 214 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:09,850 your boundaries, what you are comfortable with, what you're willing to do to make the sale, to get the client, to do the work, whatever it is. 215 00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:19,840 And I also just want to put kind of a blanket disclaimer on this episode, and whenever I talk about this subject, I always say this, it's not a judgment of the other person. 216 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:29,110 What I'm talking about, I'm not trying to say PITAs are bad people or that they're not - I don't know - a good coach if you work with other coaches or something like this. 217 00:18:29,170 --> 00:18:32,240 It's just that you and them are not a good fit, and that's totally fine. 218 00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:33,880 There's somebody else they're going to gel with. 219 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:39,520 Just like there are tons of people for me, they're huge people online that everyone loves, and I'm like, "Oh, man. 220 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,380 I had to unfollow, mute, and all the things. 221 00:18:41,380 --> 00:18:46,990 It really bothers me." Everybody has got their different cup of tea, and it's totally okay. 222 00:18:47,230 --> 00:18:56,450 I think it's such a waste of time to spend your time worrying about or trying to figure out why those people aren't, or why this person didn't like you, or why this person don't want to work with you. 223 00:18:56,450 --> 00:19:05,140 And just spend whatever amount of time you would have been doing that on finding the people who do need your help, because there are way more people like that. 224 00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:09,490 So, as we get into this, I'm going to break this down in a couple of different sections today. 225 00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:12,540 In this episode, I'm going to talk about warning signs. 226 00:19:12,550 --> 00:19:14,320 I'm going to talk about when to run. 227 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:22,230 So, that's if you're already working with someone or maybe even if someone tries to sign up with you and you're just about to work with them, when to run. 228 00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:26,200 How to avoid problem clients, because I'm a big prevention person. 229 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:36,100 And then, how to terminate a client properly, because there actually are a lot of legal - I don't know - landmines here about trying to properly 230 00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:38,830 and gently end a client relationship. 231 00:19:38,830 --> 00:19:40,990 Because even sometimes terminating the client relationship can get you sued. 232 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,010 So, with that, let's get into it. 233 00:19:45,550 --> 00:19:49,360 So, I feel like you can't talk about PITA clients without talking about warning signs. 234 00:19:50,340 --> 00:19:59,020 Whether we're talking about dating, or clients coming on board, or hiring a contractor, or whatever, there are a lot of people who give you warning signs. 235 00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:07,210 Sure, I can give you a couple of examples of what some hard and fast warning signs are. 236 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,910 However, warning signs are really different for all of you. 237 00:20:10,150 --> 00:20:13,470 What might be a warning sign to you might not be a problem for me. 238 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:16,900 I'm super sensitive, so I probably have a lot more warning signs. 239 00:20:16,930 --> 00:20:20,630 And as my business has grown, my warning signs list has gotten a lot longer. 240 00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:23,790 And I have that privilege and luxury now of being able to be like, "No. 241 00:20:23,790 --> 00:20:24,880 No thanks." 242 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,550 But when I was in the beginning, I had a very short list of warning signs. 243 00:20:28,550 --> 00:20:36,010 And I didn't really have the luxury of being like, "I don't want to work with this person." So, I understand this list can grow and this list can evolve. 244 00:20:36,010 --> 00:20:37,980 And it's not a hard and fast list. 245 00:20:37,980 --> 00:20:39,370 So, this might be different for you. 246 00:20:39,370 --> 00:20:48,190 But, overall, I want you to think about coming back to this concept that when somebody seems like a PITA or acts like a PITA, believe them. 247 00:20:48,190 --> 00:20:57,760 I want you to work on not making excuses for them and saying like, "Well, they're going through a hard time, or they're sick, or there's this." That might all be true and it might not fit with your boundaries. 248 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:06,460 It might not fit with what you're looking for, the kind of vibe or the mood or the type of work that's required for you to work with them. 249 00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:15,640 I think one trend that I've always noticed as a warning sign when it comes to PITA clients is that, people will ask you to twist yourself into a pretzel to accommodate 250 00:21:16,210 --> 00:21:26,080 them. I think one of the biggest pet peeves, I guess, of mine is that as a coach or as a creative and service provider, you go through all this trouble and all this 251 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,480 work to put programs together and packages or create products, digital products like me. 252 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,940 And somebody asks you like, "That's great. 253 00:21:33,940 --> 00:21:35,290 Thanks for spending all that time. 254 00:21:35,290 --> 00:21:40,410 But if you could just make it like this for me?" Basically, everything is supposed to be custom for them. 255 00:21:40,410 --> 00:21:49,180 And this is a common trend that I see in our industry way beyond PITA clients, but in general, a lot of people struggle with the idea that they think everything is for and about them. 256 00:21:49,330 --> 00:21:53,020 And so, people have a hard time just taking things as they are. 257 00:21:53,020 --> 00:22:02,700 And I call the Starbucks of online business, that people think they can walk into my online shop and be like, "I want extra foam, super hot, light, and this." 258 00:22:03,070 --> 00:22:05,800 I don't even know, whatever, like all of the combinations, and you're like, "No. 259 00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:11,380 That's not how it works." It's just like, "This is here and everybody else needs to get along with it. 260 00:22:11,380 --> 00:22:13,780 So, you're going to have to figure this out." 261 00:22:13,780 --> 00:22:17,290 And, again, coming back to what I said earlier, it's no judgment about that person. 262 00:22:17,770 --> 00:22:21,100 Maybe that customer needs something different than what I offer. 263 00:22:21,130 --> 00:22:27,490 That's okay, but I don't need to twist myself into a pretzel or my products into a pretzel to accommodate them. 264 00:22:27,490 --> 00:22:37,330 Because I'm telling you right now, the amount of time that you will spend pretzling all over the place to try to twist yourself into different positions to accommodate people 265 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,920 is such a waste of time. 266 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,920 Because what that really means is that that person is not your ideal customer. 267 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:51,580 If they don't need what you have, and if you've done things properly, and you've designed your products and your programs to fit your ideal customer's needs, then that person is not your ideal customer. 268 00:22:51,610 --> 00:23:00,030 So, all the time that you spend going around and twisting your services and products around for them is just a diversion. 269 00:23:00,030 --> 00:23:01,600 It's just creating a distraction. 270 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,230 It's taking you away from what really matters and what you really need to focus on. 271 00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:10,830 So, I think the pretzel twisting was one of the biggest PITA kind of things or potential PITAs. 272 00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:14,150 Because what's going to happen is you're going to twist and you're going to give it to them. 273 00:23:14,180 --> 00:23:17,230 You're going to create this different program or offer them a different coaching thing. 274 00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:19,810 They're going to start working with you and then go, "I'm good. 275 00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:22,060 It turns out that you're not really what I was looking for." 276 00:23:22,090 --> 00:23:24,280 And what do you know? They gave you that warning sign. 277 00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:33,160 They told you up front when they asked you to twist yourself into a pretzel, they were telling you already that you were not the right fit for them because you didn't have what they 278 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,990 wanted. 279 00:23:34,990 --> 00:23:36,790 By the way, this is not such a hard and fast. 280 00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:39,100 Everything in life is not so black and white. 281 00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:48,790 So, I'm not talking about someone contacts you to create some sort of program, and you speak with them, and it's like, they're really the right fit it's just that they need this different thing 282 00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:58,720 . I'm talking about, you know, people contact me all the time and they will say, "Can you let me have access to the Ultimate Bundle, but then give me all these different contracts 283 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,640 and templates and website policies for a t-shirt shop." And it's like, "No. 284 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:11,470 I don't do physical products." So, if I wanted to create an alternative to the Ultimate Bundle that was for physical products, then that's fine. 285 00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:14,170 I create something then I sell it to the masses. 286 00:24:14,170 --> 00:24:21,280 But if every time I got one of those emails - I mean, I got an email the other day about somebody who makes doll heads - I'm not kidding. 287 00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:25,780 I got an email from lady who acts as a mermaid at children's birthday parties. 288 00:24:25,810 --> 00:24:27,960 I get from Etsy Shop people. 289 00:24:27,970 --> 00:24:37,870 I mean, all over the place that are different than what I do - and if I ran off and created products for every time I got one of those emails, I would be more exhausted than I already am - because I'm in the 290 00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:39,030 middle of a move. 291 00:24:39,030 --> 00:24:49,010 I'd be super exhausted and I would also be taking away all of my time from my core messaging and my core marketing, which are to coaches and online service providers and service providing 292 00:24:49,010 --> 00:24:50,570 creatives. 293 00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:56,720 So, it's a distraction. So, we really need to take this as a warning sign both legally and business wise. 294 00:24:56,750 --> 00:24:59,340 I'm always trying to combine those tips for you. 295 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:02,660 And we need to make sure that we stay in our lane. 296 00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:04,560 I would say I have two more warning signs for you. 297 00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:10,490 So, the second warning sign that I have for you is when somebody writes you their life story. 298 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,550 For some reason, I don't have data on this. 299 00:25:13,550 --> 00:25:18,380 But I feel like if I collected data, I would feel really confident about this. 300 00:25:18,380 --> 00:25:27,800 When somebody writes you an email or contacts you on social media - I mean, sometimes people will send me DMs that have 20 voice memos in them or 301 00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:38,180 they they write me these emails telling me these very personal, long winded legal battles that they've been in from divorces to other things that have nothing 302 00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:43,610 to do with what I do, I kind of take that as not super respectful of boundaries. 303 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:51,410 And it's a little worrisome, in that case in particular, because it shows me that the person doesn't understand what I do. 304 00:25:51,410 --> 00:26:01,400 And so, I wanted to bring that up to you because that can act as a really good warning sign in the sense that, if you're maintaining your scope of practice - which if you haven't already, you can 305 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,010 go back and listen to Episode 2 of the podcast. 306 00:26:04,010 --> 00:26:13,300 I talked about scope of practice, which is what you can legally do in your business - you shouldn't really be knowing all that information. 307 00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:15,410 You shouldn't be taking all of that in. 308 00:26:15,410 --> 00:26:25,340 And so, sometimes when I get emails like that where someone's telling me, like, the most intense, long legal stories, or sometimes people attach legal documents and they send me these 309 00:26:25,340 --> 00:26:28,490 emails, I'm like, "Oh, they don't understand what I do. 310 00:26:28,490 --> 00:26:35,870 And so, in some cases, it's just an opportunity to write and say, "Thanks so much." In my case, would be like, "Yes. 311 00:26:35,870 --> 00:26:37,370 I'm an attorney, but I don't practice law. 312 00:26:37,370 --> 00:26:40,220 I don't represent anyone. I don't offer any legal services. 313 00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:50,060 I sell legal digital products." Maybe they just misunderstand, and it's totally fine to give them the benefit of the doubt and let them do with what they want. 314 00:26:50,060 --> 00:26:56,720 But other times - and it's kind of a case by case basis - to me, that's a huge warning sign and it's like, "Hey, I'm not the person for you. 315 00:26:56,900 --> 00:27:05,360 What you really need is a -" and maybe we can insert the blank here, like lawyer, doctor, therapist, whatever, physical therapist, or something. 316 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,880 So, they probably need something other than you. 317 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:13,760 And that is a really good warning sign to see that this person might not respect your boundaries. 318 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,040 They might not understand exactly what you do and your scope of practice. 319 00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:22,010 So, I would say that's a really good second warning sign. 320 00:27:22,010 --> 00:27:30,380 Third and final warning sign I want you to pay attention to is when people ask you to prove yourself beyond a reasonable amount. 321 00:27:30,380 --> 00:27:40,340 So, whether somebody writes to you and says, "Why should I hire you when I could just talk to my doctor?" Or, "Why should I talk to you when I could get my own therapist 322 00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:50,010 ?" Or whatever it is, sometimes I've heard people will contact my copywriter friends and say, "I'm thinking about you and this other person. 323 00:27:50,010 --> 00:27:56,150 She seems so much better than you, so why should I hire you?" Or something that kind of comes off rude. 324 00:27:56,150 --> 00:28:00,810 And, personally, I feel like people in our industry should just do the shopping themselves. 325 00:28:00,810 --> 00:28:05,600 I don't think you should pass that on to somebody else, but that's like a separate podcast. 326 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:15,200 I'm just one, I guess. But my husband, Ryan always says that I should have a whole new podcast called And Another Thing Where I just go off on rants of my pet peeves. 327 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,750 One of them is when people write to you and ask you to prove yourself beyond a reasonable amount. 328 00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:29,370 Because I feel like as a customer, you should look at the person that you're interested in hiring or buying from or whatever, and you do your research. 329 00:28:29,370 --> 00:28:39,230 Just like you don't walk into Target and ask them, "Why are you better than Walmart?" You just look at the products, you look at the prices, you think about which business do you like better, or maybe the location you like 330 00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:41,660 better, or whatever, and then as a consumer, you decide. 331 00:28:41,660 --> 00:28:46,250 So, I don't know why people treat us differently in this industry, but they do. 332 00:28:46,250 --> 00:28:48,650 And, personally, this is something that really irks me. 333 00:28:48,650 --> 00:28:57,540 And if people ask me, "What's the difference between your templates and someone else's?" All I can do is talk about my products. 334 00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:59,480 All you can do is talk about your coaching. 335 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,700 How can you compare yourself to these other people? 336 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,660 I also don't really feel like that's a great headspace for you to be in or a great way for you to be spending your time. 337 00:29:08,660 --> 00:29:18,630 So, personally, I will say, "You can check out my references here," or "Listen to client stories here," or "Learn more about my work here 338 00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:19,760 or my background. 339 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,380 I have a podcast. 340 00:29:21,380 --> 00:29:24,140 I have a blog. I do all this stuff on Instagram. 341 00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:25,280 Here's all this stuff." 342 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,670 But beyond that, I'm not going to argue for myself. 343 00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:31,790 My lawyer days are over, so I'm not arguing for myself. 344 00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:34,860 I don't have to justify and prove my worth in that way. 345 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:37,740 I've done the work that has really proven that. 346 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:47,400 And so, I want you to protect yourself in that way if someone asks for you to prove yourself in a way that you feel is unreasonable, beyond just 347 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,670 asking some logistical questions like how does your program differ from this or something like that. 348 00:29:52,670 --> 00:29:55,200 So, those are a couple of my warning signs. 349 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:01,680 If you have warning signs that you want me to include in the future, I would love for you to DM me on Instagram, let me know what you think. 350 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:07,470 But those are the biggest ones that came up for me when I was thinking about this today and I wanted to share with you. 351 00:30:13,020 --> 00:30:17,650 Have you ever felt lost about where to begin with the legal side of protecting your online business? 352 00:30:17,670 --> 00:30:21,180 Some people say you can just wing it at the beginning and get officially set up later. 353 00:30:21,810 --> 00:30:23,520 Not a good idea, by the way. 354 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:33,510 Whether you're afraid to even start working with clients because you don't want to do something wrong legally and then get in trouble or your business is growing and you sort of forgot to take care of the legal 355 00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:35,580 pieces, I've got you. 356 00:30:35,580 --> 00:30:45,150 I don't want you to live in fear of the internet police coming after you and your business, but you do have to do certain things and get certain things in place in order to legally and safely run your business 357 00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:52,500 online. As much as it just feels like an unregulated Wild Wild West online, that is very much not the case. 358 00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:57,520 As an attorney turned entrepreneur and former corporate litigator, I can assure you that there are rules. 359 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,550 There are real steps that everybody who runs or starts an online business needs to take. 360 00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:04,650 And you're not behind at all. 361 00:31:04,650 --> 00:31:07,050 We can get you set up and following the rules right away. 362 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,180 In fact, we can even do it today. 363 00:31:09,180 --> 00:31:14,130 I want to teach you the five very simple steps to take to legally protect and grow your online business. 364 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:23,400 You don't need an MBA to be a successful entrepreneur and stay out of legal hot water, but you do need to dot your legal I's and cross your T's in a few key areas that can't be skipped. 365 00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:29,880 That's exactly what I'll teach you in my free one hour legal workshop called Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online Business. 366 00:31:29,910 --> 00:31:38,760 Just head to mylegalworkshop.com, drop in your email address, pick the time, and I'll send you a link to watch the workshop video whenever you have time. 367 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,720 This is the best place to begin if you're just getting started legally legitimizing your business. 368 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:49,410 So, head on over to mylegalworkshop.com and sign up to watch Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online Business now. 369 00:31:56,620 --> 00:32:01,600 Otherwise, I think that it's really helpful to talk about when to run. 370 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,710 So, we might get our ears perked up when some of these warning signs happen. 371 00:32:05,710 --> 00:32:08,530 But when is it right for you to bolt? 372 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:18,550 So, I would say that it is right for you to run from a PITA client when they continually ask you to go outside of your scope of practice 373 00:32:18,550 --> 00:32:21,940 and don't respect you trying to stay within it. 374 00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:25,090 And you verbalizing like, "Hey, that's not within my scope. 375 00:32:25,270 --> 00:32:27,460 That's not something I can help you with." 376 00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:29,410 And, of course, again, go back and listen to Episode 2. 377 00:32:29,410 --> 00:32:34,460 But make sure that you didn't kind of falsely advertise that you could help them with something that you can't. 378 00:32:34,460 --> 00:32:43,630 You don't want to advertise that and then when they ask you about it, you'd be like, "Oh, I can't help you with that situation." So, we want to make sure that we're consistent and I talk a lot about it in that episode. 379 00:32:43,630 --> 00:32:48,370 And by the way, people might make a mistake. 380 00:32:48,370 --> 00:32:55,330 These clients might innocently just ask you a question or ask for you to do something for them, and they don't know that it's outside your scope. 381 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,830 And so, that's not the problem. 382 00:32:56,830 --> 00:33:03,970 The problem is when you tell them that and then they ask again, and again, and again, and again, and they're not being respectful. 383 00:33:03,970 --> 00:33:07,600 And that can apply across many different scenarios beyond just scope of practice. 384 00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:17,080 But continually disrespecting your boundaries, your wishes, the things that you ask for is not okay. 385 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,260 So, that is also a huge red flag for me, legally speaking. 386 00:33:20,260 --> 00:33:27,370 Because if people are constantly asking you to go outside your scope, I am concerned that you're working with a client who needed something different than you. 387 00:33:28,030 --> 00:33:34,740 And kind of going back to the beginning of this episode, I tell you, yes, maybe it's just a client who was a pain and didn't listen. 388 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:41,110 And maybe you did all the things, maybe you properly talked about your scope, and your copy was good, and all of that stuff, maybe you did all the things right. 389 00:33:41,740 --> 00:33:51,640 But if they still didn't listen, I am concerned about them now working with you anymore, and it would be a good time for you to run. 390 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:57,610 The other scenario, though, that I talked about in the beginning of this episode is that, that might also be a good time for you to look in the mirror and think, "Okay. 391 00:33:58,150 --> 00:34:07,480 Let me go back and think about, was there anything in our discovery call that maybe she could have taken away from that, that made her think that I could help her with this?" 392 00:34:07,660 --> 00:34:17,470 Or, "Was there anything in my marketing, is there anything on my website, in my emails that made her think that I could help her with this?" And so, when that happens, it's always a good 393 00:34:17,470 --> 00:34:19,660 time to take a step back and just look in the mirror. 394 00:34:19,660 --> 00:34:25,180 And maybe you look and you realize like, "I think I did everything to the best of my ability. 395 00:34:25,180 --> 00:34:28,060 I'm not perfect." That's okay, we're not asking for perfection. 396 00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:30,130 "But I don't think I was misleading in any way. 397 00:34:30,130 --> 00:34:32,650 I think this person just wasn't listening." And they slipped through the cracks. 398 00:34:33,010 --> 00:34:34,040 That's okay. 399 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,320 But that would be, in my eyes, a good time for you to run. 400 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:45,940 And like I said at the end, we'll talk about how to properly run, how to properly terminate that client relationship so you don't get in legal trouble. 401 00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:55,750 So, another scenario that I think would be a good time to run is that you find out that through, maybe, the course of your work together, through no fault of your own, that they need help outside of your scope and 402 00:34:55,750 --> 00:35:02,260 you're not the best person or the most qualified person to help them given what they need. 403 00:35:02,260 --> 00:35:10,090 I had a customer contact me the other day about a client expressing some suicidal ideation, and that's wildly outside her scope. 404 00:35:10,090 --> 00:35:11,600 And so, it was like, "Okay. 405 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:18,000 This obviously wasn't brought up when this person was coming on, but now I know." And so, now, it's a problem. 406 00:35:18,010 --> 00:35:25,990 And then, it's about properly transitioning that person to get the right support and notifying the right people so that that person can get help in the right place. 407 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,400 So, that would be a good time for you not to work with the client anymore. 408 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:38,800 If it's something that's wildly outside your scope, something like that really serious comes up, then that would be a good time for you to terminate that relationship. 409 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:49,990 I would also say, I guess more on the practical side I hear about constantly, is that, clients who 410 00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:55,750 constantly disrespect your time, your space, especially the scope of the work. 411 00:35:55,750 --> 00:36:05,560 I have a lot of friends who are in the copywriting space or social media, even design like graphic design work, and they are constantly 412 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,420 telling me about people who will contact them and then be like, "Okay. 413 00:36:08,420 --> 00:36:18,220 Well, can you also add this on?" Or, "Can you rewrite these emails again?" Or, "Can you just tack on an extra email, just an email?" And I'm not saying, again, the person 414 00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:20,240 ask one time and then you're like, boop, you're done. 415 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:21,610 Terminated. Done. 416 00:36:21,790 --> 00:36:23,230 That's not what I'm saying. 417 00:36:23,230 --> 00:36:32,800 But people who continually do that, you've tried talking to them, you already have the language in your contract, you point back to the language in your contract, they still don't 418 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,780 listen, they still ask, you still say no, they still ask again, boom, terminated in my eyes. 419 00:36:37,810 --> 00:36:46,960 If it happens again and again and again, if it's not getting better, if the person's not willing to have the conversation, then that is a time when I wouldn't work with the client 420 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:54,280 anymore. Last but not least, I would definitely say that when it comes to payment, there can be some scenarios when you might want to run from a client. 421 00:36:54,280 --> 00:37:04,260 So, if a client is not willing to pay you, if you are providing some sort of product or deliverable - I have heard of people in the past who have contacted me and said, "I have this client 422 00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:12,240 or prospective client, and my way of doing things is that they pay -" let's say, the person's a copyrighter "- half upfront. 423 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:21,930 And then, before the work is delivered, then the person pays the balance, and then the work is delivered." And sometimes they'll get a client who says, "I'm not going to pay you anything until I see the 424 00:37:21,930 --> 00:37:27,990 work." Well, that's a hard no, that's a run as fast as you can, because that is not okay. 425 00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:29,220 We can't do that. 426 00:37:29,220 --> 00:37:31,500 We don't want to be giving out deliverables. 427 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:33,880 I get very emotional. 428 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:43,850 I'm very difficult to read on my end emails and stuff from people who have just gotten royally screwed by people who they produced websites for, and wrote copy for, or produced a program for, 429 00:37:43,850 --> 00:37:52,920 like a workout program, and then the person is like, "Now, that you sent it to me, I decided I don't want to pay for it." So, we don't ever want to put ourselves in that position. 430 00:37:52,920 --> 00:38:02,820 So, if someone is not comfortable paying you upfront for what you're worth or whatever, or if they're really yanking you around about the price, even forget about producing the 431 00:38:02,820 --> 00:38:08,190 work, but if somebody is really disrespectful about what you're asking to charge, to me, that's a hard no. 432 00:38:08,790 --> 00:38:11,070 So, I want you to look for that. 433 00:38:11,070 --> 00:38:20,610 Last but not least about when to run, I want to encourage you to absolutely run sprint, let's say, from a person who is not comfortable signing your 434 00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:26,700 contract. So, I have had a lot of people tell me like, "Oh, I sent this contract to this person, they're not okay signing with it. 435 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:30,460 But I'm thinking I should work with them anyway because I really need the experience." No. 436 00:38:30,460 --> 00:38:31,640 No. No. No. 437 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,990 No. For so many different reasons. 438 00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:36,840 One, because why won't they sign a contract, right? 439 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:45,720 Because if there's nothing wrong, if they don't intend to cut bait or try it before they buy it or any of these other things, then why would they be so fussed? 440 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:50,140 As long as your contract is not asking for their first born, I don't understand what the problem is. 441 00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:56,160 It's a very normal form of doing business, and it would be perfectly reasonable for you to have them sign a contract. 442 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:02,190 So, anyone who's not comfortable doing that, that is a huge, huge, huge, huge red flag for me. 443 00:39:02,190 --> 00:39:07,330 And on your behalf, you should be very nervous about somebody who does that because you will have no method of enforcement. 444 00:39:07,350 --> 00:39:16,600 So, in other words, if they stop paying you or they steal your content or they go to sue you, you have nothing to protect yourself. 445 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:26,040 And it won't matter if you have text messages or emails or any of this other stuff, you need to have a properly formed contract that's properly signed, properly sent, all that kind of stuff. 446 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,630 I have blog posts on all of these things that we can link below about how to send and sign contracts. 447 00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:39,840 But you need to make sure that you're using a proper contract with your clients and that if they are not comfortable signing one, I would bolt. 448 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:47,130 So, in order to make sure that you don't have to bolt in the first place, let's talk a little bit about how to avoid problem clients in the first place. 449 00:39:47,130 --> 00:39:52,180 Because my ideal scenario for you is that you wouldn't have to worry about any of these things. 450 00:39:52,180 --> 00:39:59,940 Like, you wouldn't have to worry about what to do when the client stops paying you or how to properly terminate if you didn't end up in these situations in the first place. 451 00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:03,640 And, of course, like we've talked about a few times today, it's inevitable. 452 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,010 There are a few of these scenarios you're just not going to be able to prevent. 453 00:40:07,010 --> 00:40:10,050 But I think the bulk of them, you actually can. 454 00:40:10,050 --> 00:40:15,270 So, for me, I'm obsessed with marketing, and I think so many things come down to marketing. 455 00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:24,170 But, for me, avoiding problem clients comes down to so much about making sure that your messaging is actually attracting the right people. 456 00:40:24,170 --> 00:40:28,020 And you want to focus on, I think, three things. 457 00:40:28,020 --> 00:40:37,690 So, you want to focus on the way that you talk about money, maybe, or how you talk about the cost of your program, the investment in your program. 458 00:40:37,690 --> 00:40:47,430 But also depending on what you do, maybe the way that you talk about money in general, you might be inadvertently attracting people who have some mindset issues or some things 459 00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:48,870 around money. 460 00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:58,380 And so, if you're ending up with a lot of PITA clients who are complaining about money, or wanting their money back, or wanting to cancel, or bouncing their checks or credit card payments, then 461 00:40:58,710 --> 00:41:08,520 I think that would be a good time to look at your marketing messaging around money, and how do you talk about wealth, or how do you talk about investment, or how do you talk about the cost of your program. 462 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,070 All of that, I think, would be a really good thing. 463 00:41:11,370 --> 00:41:13,010 The other thing is time. 464 00:41:13,010 --> 00:41:14,580 So, how do you talk about time? 465 00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:24,180 In your marketing and your messaging, you're talking to people who are super busy, have no time, your crunch, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're kind of 466 00:41:24,270 --> 00:41:27,930 feeding into that mindset of the "I don't have time. 467 00:41:27,930 --> 00:41:29,040 I'm super busy. 468 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:38,670 Like, I'm not willing to make time for this." I don't think that you can be super shocked when a bunch of your clients sign off of your program and then all asked to cancel their payments because they're like, "I don't have time 469 00:41:38,670 --> 00:41:41,430 for this program." 470 00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:47,910 So, it's just something to take a look at to see am I actually feeding directly into the very thing that I'm trying to avoid. 471 00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:51,660 And so, you're actually attracting the people who struggle with that problem. 472 00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:53,640 It might be something to think of. 473 00:41:53,640 --> 00:42:00,940 Last but not least, I would say that we want to think about how we're talking about things in our marketing and messaging with scope of practice. 474 00:42:00,940 --> 00:42:10,560 And as I talked about in Episode 2, let's take a health coach, for example, you wouldn't be on Instagram doing Instagram Stories showing yourself making a meal plan, or 475 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,370 talking about bloodwork and lab work. 476 00:42:12,370 --> 00:42:19,500 And then, someone comes to work with you, you can't be shocked when that person then is like, "Here's my most recent blood work. 477 00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:23,720 Can you read it and interpret it for me?" That's outside of your scope of practice if you're a health coach. 478 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:24,870 You're not able to do that. 479 00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:26,230 That's illegal. 480 00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:30,960 But you can actually be surprised if that's what your marketing messaging is. 481 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:39,430 So, I think sometimes if we end up with some of these problem clients, it's an invitation for us to step back and look at what our marketing messaging is. 482 00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:49,290 So, really, with marketing, all things start if we were thinking about this in terms of attracting a client and we were looking at this and thinking of kind of funnel of sorts. 483 00:42:49,530 --> 00:42:55,650 Our marketing is really at the top, what we're saying on social media, what we're writing in our post, what we're writing to our email list. 484 00:42:55,650 --> 00:42:57,930 I hope you're emailing your list at least once a week. 485 00:42:58,110 --> 00:43:01,310 I have emailed my list one time a week for five years. 486 00:43:01,310 --> 00:43:03,300 So, make sure you're doing that. 487 00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:10,680 But if we think about that as kind of the top, the entrance, that's really important because that's who you're going to attract, that's who you're going to take in. 488 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:20,670 And then, we want to think about what are the steps from that top of the funnel, that entry point, the widest part of the upside down triangle to the tip of the triangle, which is 489 00:43:20,670 --> 00:43:21,830 to work with you? 490 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,470 That's the premium, like mucho bucks, they should be working with you kind of thing. 491 00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:29,060 So, we're attracting them with the right messaging. 492 00:43:29,070 --> 00:43:33,720 And then, maybe they're opting in to some sort of freebie that you have. 493 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:40,660 Your freebie should relate to the person that you want to attract to help with the thing that you can help with. 494 00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:42,950 The thing that your programs are designed to help with. 495 00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:45,730 The thing that your product is designed to solve. 496 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:51,720 So, we're attracting the right person with this freebie, or workshop, or the download, or whatever it is. 497 00:43:51,810 --> 00:43:58,890 And then, we're nurturing them through emails and through more social media, maybe even Facebook Ads, all that kind of stuff. 498 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,280 Again, always thinking about attracting the right person. 499 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:12,180 And then, maybe as we're getting to the bottom of that triangle, we're thinking about - depending on what you do - maybe somebody applying to work with you, or applying to contact you, or applying for your 500 00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:19,320 program. If you're a coach and if you run any sort of program or do any sort of coaching, this, to me, is huge. 501 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,970 This is a huge part of your triangle because this is a great filter for you. 502 00:44:23,970 --> 00:44:33,930 So, I think having some sort of application where you have a number of questions that are pre-qualifying - so I call this a pre-qualifying client questionnaire or something 503 00:44:33,930 --> 00:44:41,530 like that. And, actually, in the Ultimate Bundle, I teach people about how to properly pre-qualify clients, especially from a legal perspective. 504 00:44:41,530 --> 00:44:43,680 So, we talk about that. 505 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:53,520 But this is a really important part because - going back to the dating scenario - this would be probably the part where the person is going to contact you to go on the date to find 506 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,730 out if you want to get married. 507 00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:57,780 So, this is a really important part of the process. 508 00:44:57,780 --> 00:45:06,150 And so, through this pre-qualification process, I think you can ask people to jump through a little bit of hoops so the application can be 509 00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:10,260 thorough. It kind of depends on who you're trying to attract. 510 00:45:10,260 --> 00:45:14,850 Like, do you want people who are really going to be dedicated and have a lot of time? 511 00:45:14,850 --> 00:45:19,620 Or you need people maybe who have a lot to invest financially? 512 00:45:19,650 --> 00:45:21,750 It kind of depends on what you're doing. 513 00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:31,080 So, some people will knock people out with asking a lot of questions, or asking if they're ready to invest, asking if there's anyone else who would need to be present 514 00:45:31,590 --> 00:45:36,680 on the call, or who would need to be in contact, who would be required to help make the decision. 515 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:43,460 That's kind of knocking out the whole I have to go talk to my partner or my spouse responses. 516 00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:45,540 So, you can ask things like that. 517 00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:52,470 You know, you could tell people what the general range is for the investment and if that's something that they're ready for, all of that kind of stuff. 518 00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:55,680 So, I think that that's really helpful. 519 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,080 Now, last but not least, I want to give you a hot tip. 520 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:03,900 If you made it this far in the episode, I feel like this is the best tip yet, but this is just what my friends and my clients tell me. 521 00:46:03,930 --> 00:46:13,590 But when you book a call - so if you allow people to book free calls with you or something like that - I think that one of the best things I ever did in my business when I was doing free calls 522 00:46:13,590 --> 00:46:23,520 until they got wildly out of control, was that, after someone would book a free call, they would get a little drip series of, I think, it was about three emails that will let them know what to 523 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,470 expect on the call. 524 00:46:25,470 --> 00:46:30,240 And so, it was an opportunity to learn a little bit more about me, learn a little bit more about my products. 525 00:46:30,450 --> 00:46:37,800 At that time, I think I might have only been selling individual legal temples and then, eventually, the bundle, so telling them what that was. 526 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:44,340 But more than anything, telling them what I can and can't do, and especially we will not be doing on the call. 527 00:46:44,370 --> 00:46:51,480 So, in my scenario, it was like, they would book a free call with me, and then they would get these emails that would say, like, "Thank you so much. 528 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,920 I can't wait to talk with you. 529 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:54,450 And here are all the logistics. 530 00:46:54,540 --> 00:47:03,150 The number to call and where to be, and yada, yada." But then, I would tell them like, "Just so you know, I will not be giving you any legal advice on this call. 531 00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:06,360 So, the way that this call works is that you'll tell me a little bit about your business. 532 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,800 I might ask some qualifying questions. 533 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:14,970 And then, I'll share with you about the program or the product that would be the best fit for you based on what you shared with me. 534 00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:23,760 I will not be telling you how to register your business, where to register your business, which contract you need, yada, yada," unless they were asking which product to buy. 535 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:29,290 But the point of this call is for me to take a little bit of information and find out if I can even help. 536 00:47:29,290 --> 00:47:33,000 And it's not to give advice, and it's not to give all of this information. 537 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,420 Because, first of all, all the information I give is in my product, so you can get that. 538 00:47:36,420 --> 00:47:38,640 And if I'm the right fit for you, you can get that. 539 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,090 And if it's advice, I can't do that in any way. 540 00:47:42,090 --> 00:47:46,530 Do you see how this is kind of all coming together where this is legally protecting me too? 541 00:47:46,530 --> 00:47:52,770 Because I'm filtering out people and I'm not attracting people who are going to want me to go outside my scope of practice. 542 00:47:52,770 --> 00:47:54,120 I'm being super upfront. 543 00:47:54,120 --> 00:48:00,050 I'm saving my time, and my energy, and my mental health, and all of that by not even getting on the phone in the first place. 544 00:48:00,050 --> 00:48:02,340 And then, I would give them the opportunity to cancel. 545 00:48:02,340 --> 00:48:07,950 I would say like, "If you booked this call and then now you realize this is not what you thought, go ahead and cancel." 546 00:48:07,950 --> 00:48:09,850 Do you know what ended up happening? 547 00:48:09,850 --> 00:48:11,690 Hardly anyone ever canceled. 548 00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:15,330 And if they did, it was perfect because they canceled and they'd be like, "Thanks so much for telling me. 549 00:48:15,330 --> 00:48:21,120 I was actually only calling you because I wanted free legal advice." People legit say this to me in emails. 550 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:28,470 I used to send them to friends all the time, I'd be like, "This lady just wrote to me and said she only ever intended to pick my brain or get free advice." 551 00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:37,950 Or sometimes - I hope you're sitting down - people would write to me and tell me they bought legal templates from someone else and that they were just setting up the call with me for some customer service, like some 552 00:48:37,950 --> 00:48:41,040 help, because they couldn't even get in touch with the person that they bought from. 553 00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:42,770 I couldn't believe it. 554 00:48:42,770 --> 00:48:45,350 Those were definitely the minority. 555 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:52,170 I did not get very many of those emails, but I did get some, and I was actually relieved. 556 00:48:52,170 --> 00:48:58,110 It was like 20, 30 minutes off my calendar that I had back to do something else that was better in revenue generating in my business. 557 00:48:58,110 --> 00:49:00,360 So, it worked out. 558 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:01,710 But do you know what happened with everyone else? 559 00:49:01,710 --> 00:49:11,460 They were solid. Basically, my sale rate, my close rate, on all of these calls just skyrocketed because by the time they got on the phone with me, they were so primed, they were so ready, they understood what we were 560 00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:12,510 there for. 561 00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:14,250 And so, we would have great conversation. 562 00:49:14,250 --> 00:49:15,860 We would connect personally. 563 00:49:15,870 --> 00:49:17,810 They would share a bit with me about them. 564 00:49:17,810 --> 00:49:21,510 And I would ask a lot of questions about their business and what they plan to do . 565 00:49:21,610 --> 00:49:23,820 And half the time we would just start talking about business stuff and everything. 566 00:49:24,450 --> 00:49:29,260 And then, we would talk about what the best fit was for them if it was even the best fit. 567 00:49:29,260 --> 00:49:32,760 And people really appreciated when I would say, "I'm not the person for you. 568 00:49:33,810 --> 00:49:37,830 My products aren't going to help you." So, that was huge. 569 00:49:37,830 --> 00:49:43,590 And if that helps you in any way, I hope that you institute this little baby funnel where people come through your marketing funnel. 570 00:49:43,590 --> 00:49:53,520 And then, if they have to fill out an application, have a call with you, automate a few emails to them that they can get to know you, understand what the call is and is not for, and give them an 571 00:49:53,520 --> 00:50:03,480 easy way to cancel, or say, "I'm so excited to talk with you about what I can help you with." So, that one was huge for me when I was doing free 572 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,120 calls. I hope that it would be for you. 573 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:11,180 Last but not least in terms of avoiding problem clients, I would just say that you have to get more comfortable with saying no. 574 00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:15,850 I think pretty much everyone I know in general is trying to work on this in life. 575 00:50:15,850 --> 00:50:22,020 But you have to be okay with saying no, even when you don't have a lot of clients and aren't making a lot of money. 576 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,870 Maybe things get tight. Maybe things slow down. 577 00:50:25,050 --> 00:50:31,620 That is not an invitation to start saying yes to things that are uncomfortable or yes to things that are not safe for you. 578 00:50:31,620 --> 00:50:33,150 It's always a no. 579 00:50:33,150 --> 00:50:36,360 And so, we have to be okay with saying no. 580 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:46,260 And I realized three or four years ago, if I was listening to someone like me say this, I would be like, "Easy for you to say, because now you can do this." And I felt like that at the time. 581 00:50:46,260 --> 00:50:48,000 So, I feel that and I hear you. 582 00:50:48,030 --> 00:50:57,750 But I also know that the more that you can work on that, and the more that you can trust in this process, and believe in your future, 583 00:50:57,750 --> 00:51:07,140 believe in the future of your business, and know that it's not worth any of the short term gain for whatever you would get that you really have to take a 584 00:51:07,140 --> 00:51:11,760 long, long term approach to building your business. 585 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,100 I'm a huge proponent of this. 586 00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,280 And if you're in this for the long haul, the quick hits are not worth it. 587 00:51:18,060 --> 00:51:19,290 They will stress you out. 588 00:51:19,330 --> 00:51:20,670 You will end up losing money. 589 00:51:20,670 --> 00:51:22,440 You will end up spending a lot of time. 590 00:51:22,890 --> 00:51:28,730 You will have a lot of sleepless nights worrying and wondering if whatever amount of money you took from this person was even worth it. 591 00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:31,980 It's not worth it, I can tell you right now. 592 00:51:31,980 --> 00:51:35,610 So, with that, I want you to just practice saying no. 593 00:51:35,730 --> 00:51:42,060 I would suggest sitting with the discomfort that comes with that of, "Am I being an idiot? 594 00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:47,680 I'm turning business away when I don't think things are going well." I had a lot of days like that, I can tell you. 595 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:57,450 And, now, on the other side of that experience, I'm just so glad that I stuck with it, and I kept my head down, and I kept speaking to the right 596 00:51:57,450 --> 00:52:00,970 person, and kept saying no to the wrong one for me. 597 00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:10,170 And the more you can do that, I think the faster you're going to get to that solid business foundation that you're looking for. 598 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,600 I know that I was. 599 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:20,280 So, last but not least when it comes to terminating a client, we want to make sure that we properly terminate our relationship with the client. 600 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:29,760 Because we don't want to just walk away and say, "See you later." So, even good things come to an end, and we want to end even good clients in a good way. 601 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,110 But if it's a bad client relationship, we want to make sure that we end things properly. 602 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:39,990 And a lot of times that's a termination letter, some sort of termination of contract letter. 603 00:52:40,020 --> 00:52:42,060 You might see this sometimes with physicians. 604 00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:50,450 My mom's a doctor and when she has to kick people out of the practice, you have to send a formal letter, you have to give a referral, and let the person know. 605 00:52:50,450 --> 00:52:54,960 And there are state laws about how much time you have to give them for medications and refills and things. 606 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,490 But if you're not a doctor, you don't have to worry about that. 607 00:52:57,510 --> 00:53:03,480 But there are kind of similar forms of a termination letter for people who do what we do. 608 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:08,580 And so, I would let them know very plainly that you are terminating the contract. 609 00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:15,040 Obviously, you want to let them know as of what date you're not providing services or access or whatever. 610 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,030 But you also want them to know that they won't be charged. 611 00:53:18,030 --> 00:53:25,020 Let's say, they were supposed to get charged for future months and you haven't performed those services, then the person shouldn't be getting charged for that. 612 00:53:25,780 --> 00:53:27,990 So, you would want to let them know. 613 00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:34,140 You could always spell out the reasons that you're terminating the contract, but you kind of want to keep it brief and to the point, because you don't want to get into it. 614 00:53:34,140 --> 00:53:35,670 We kind of want to keep it to the facts. 615 00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:39,210 We don't want to make it super emotional, like, "You were mean to me. 616 00:53:39,210 --> 00:53:49,080 You don't respect my boundaries." If it was that case, I would more say like, "For continual violation of Section 3 of our contract." We want to think 617 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,440 and talk like lawyers here. 618 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:55,890 Not like, "You hurt my feelings," which is super valid, just not in this way. 619 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,200 So, we want to do that. 620 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:05,750 We want to explain how things will wrap up, kind of want to give them next steps, if there's anything that you still owe them, or access that you're giving them, or something like that. 621 00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:09,330 If you have a referral, that would be awesome if there's somebody who could help them better. 622 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:18,560 This is especially true when it's somebody who needs help outside of your scope of practice, it would be great to put to them in touch with someone who could help them. 623 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:24,480 And I would just thank them and be kind of gracious and positive and end on a positive note. 624 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:34,470 But I'm actually going to link to a blog post that I wrote on this topic at the bottom of this podcast episode called How to Terminate a Contract with the Client, because I go into detail in this blog 625 00:54:34,470 --> 00:54:38,970 post all about how to properly terminate a client contract. 626 00:54:38,970 --> 00:54:42,180 So, with that, I hope that this episode was helpful to you today. 627 00:54:42,180 --> 00:54:48,880 I would absolutely love it if you took a screenshot of this episode, tag me on Instagram @samvanderwielen. 628 00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,090 Send me a DM, let me know what you thought about this episode. 629 00:54:51,090 --> 00:54:52,680 Was it helpful? Was there anything? 630 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,650 What was your biggest takeaway from this episode? 631 00:54:54,660 --> 00:55:01,440 I would love to know, especially if there is going to be something that you're going to do differently, or maybe something that you realize that you are doing with clients. 632 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:11,430 I know a lot of people when I've talked about this on social media before will just say, like, "Thanks for telling me that this is normal because I was thinking it was just me." And so, I hope more than anything today that you 633 00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:15,460 did take away that this is a normal part of building your business. 634 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,400 You are not expected to nail this. 635 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,180 All of your clients are not going to be perfect and that's okay. 636 00:55:21,180 --> 00:55:31,000 And just like anything in life, you're going to be climbing this mountain and getting better and better at this, and then you're going to slip up or you're going to have a little blip on the radar where something's going to happen and 637 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,200 you're going to be like, "Oh, what did I do wrong?" And maybe you didn't do anything wrong. 638 00:55:34,210 --> 00:55:38,580 Maybe this person was just a little nutty, and that's okay. 639 00:55:38,580 --> 00:55:41,850 Maybe they were just having a moment, that's okay. 640 00:55:41,850 --> 00:55:45,650 And so, we don't want to take this so personally. 641 00:55:45,660 --> 00:55:53,220 At the same time, we can also take this as feedback and data for what we can do differently or better, if anything at all. 642 00:55:53,220 --> 00:55:54,680 So, I hope this episode was helpful. 643 00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,220 Send me a DM, let me know what you think. 644 00:55:56,250 --> 00:56:00,240 Otherwise, check out the show notes for all the links to the blog post that I talked about today. 645 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,140 Otherwise, I can't wait to chat with you next week. 646 00:56:03,150 --> 00:56:05,280 Thanks for listening to On Your Terms. 647 00:56:05,310 --> 00:56:10,050 Make sure, please, please, please, keep building your business on your terms. 648 00:56:11,370 --> 00:56:14,160 Thanks so much for listening to the On Your Terms podcast. 649 00:56:14,190 --> 00:56:18,840 Make sure to follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen to podcasts. 650 00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:25,860 You can also check out all of our podcast episodes, show notes, links, and more at samvanderwielen.com/podcast. 651 00:56:25,890 --> 00:56:33,590 You can learn more about legally protecting your business and take my free legal workshop, Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online Business at samvanderwielen.com. 652 00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:40,030 And to stay connected and follow along, follow me on Instagram @samvanderwielen, and send me a DM to say hi. © 653 00:56:40,030 --> 00:56:40,380 2022 Sam Vander Wielen LLC | All Rights Reserved | Any use of this intellectual property owned by Sam Vander Wielen LLC may not be used in connection with the sale or distribution of any content (free or paid, written or verbal), product, 654 00:56:40,380 --> 00:56:40,440 and/or service by you without prior written consent from Sam Vander Wielen LLC.