Welcome to the Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers who want to better understand and connect with their canine companions. I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and today we are diving into a breed that you may not have heard much about, but once you do, you'll never forget. Joining me is Nikki Cole, a passionate advocate for the beautiful and underrepresented English Toy Terrier or ETT for short. A breed that's both elegant and hilarious, loyal and lively, and sadly now classed as vulnerable. We will be unpacking what it means for a breed to be vulnerable, how trends impact the breeds we see or don't see out in the world, and why it's so important to make informed heart led choices when choosing a dog. If you're curious about where breeds or just want to hear some brilliant poodle adjacent chat, you are in for a treat, so grab a cup of tea. Settle in and let's get started.

Welcome back to The Yappy Hour, powered by Yappy. I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and I'm so excited to bring you another episode today. Even more excited that we're gonna be talking about a breed that doesn't get a lot of sort of press. We're gonna be shining a light on the rare and. Special Breed, which is the English Toy Terrier. And we're gonna also be touching on vulnerable breeds as well. So as I said, I'm really excited to have a chat about this particular breed. It's not some, not a breed that we've spoken about before on the yappy hour. And for today's conversation, we've got the marvelous Nikki Cole. Nikki, welcome to the Yappy Hour. How are you doing?

Thank

Thank.

much. Thank a good thank you, g. to be. Thank you so much for having me on to talk about something I'm very passionate about.

Love that. No, you are most welcome. We can see you are passionate about 'cause your face lights up just then as well. So yeah, like I said, it's not something we've spoken about before this particular breed, so I'm really excited to sort of dive a little deeper. So let's start from the beginning then, Nikki. Can you tell us how you first discovered English toy Terriers? Or we're gonna say ETS for short and what was it that drew you to them please?

Yep. is a regular thing in in our la in our world. We accidentally said it to the vet once, oh, that's an ETT thing, and the vet was like, ETT.

Oh, brilliant. Okay. I'm glad. I'm glad, right? Yeah. So yeah, what, what made you, how did you first discover them and how, what drew you to them?

Yeah, so always had an interest in dog breeds. Always been an dog and animals in generally obsessed. I was that kid who had like the dog breed book and would be looking through all the different breeds, picking out ones that I liked and what would be suitable for our household.

That. Love that.

And so, had my fir first dog as a family dog, Minnie Schnauzer Jack. He was wonderful. Mm-hmm. After Jack, I was looking at, we were looking at the rescue centers, seeing what was in the rescue centers, and I was looking at different breeds. I still lived at homes. My parents had to be in agreement. I mean, I, and I loved Dobermans. I still do, I still love Dobermans.

really? Oh.

But but my you know, they had to be in agreement. They didn't want a big dog. And so I was just looking at miniature pinches. I do still love them as well.

Yeah, well, they've got the similar, similar colors to the doby, ain't it? The black and tanner space.

exactly. So in your, in my head I'm thinking, oh, you know, miniature version. And, and through the research, the English to terrier popped up.

Oh.

so I joined Facebook groups asked if I could meet up with local people who had them. And I made some great contacts

Oh, lovely.

to, and, you know, they were only too happy to talk about, you know, everything good and bad. What it's like to own one. I got hooked. but then, fred, who's my mixed breed, my other dog, he turned up in the rescue center and again, he was just meant to be just

Oh,

us down to the ground. And he's wonderful.

oh good.

But then I moved out, me and Fred and 'cause he is mine and I'm like, right, well we can have as many dogs as

Yeah.

well. Yeah. well at least at least two more than one. I was still hooked on English Toy Terriers and I called one of my contacts who I'd met up with. She was into breeding, showing, and she sort of said, well, actually I think I do know someone that's looking to maybe rehome one of her bitches into a household where she'd get a bit more attention. And. I tell you, after the heartbreak of losing Jack so suddenly and, and Upsettingly, and it was really heartbreaking. It was like, it was just like Fred and Nala had been sent by angels, you know, it was just, I got really lucky both times,

Oh, that's nice.

turning up at the rescue center and then Nala, you know, they don't English. Toy Terriers being a vulnerable breed, they're so hard to get hold of. So I got very lucky.

Right, so, so Fred's an ETT as well.

Sorry, Fred is a mixed, complete

Yeah. Sorry.

so

Yeah, that's from the,

Yeah, yeah. But he came from Second Chance. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, lovely. Yeah. Second Chance is a local rescue in the Southampton area where we are both from.

Yeah.

Yeah. Good. And then you've got Nala. Who's your ETT then?

that's right.

Brilliant. Okay, I love that. And what I also loved is like a lot of people that have come onto the show you, you've started off with saying that you were that kid that had the dog breed encyclopedia. And I love that 'cause a few guests have said. Sim similar. You've loved having, you know, you've loved being around animals and dogs and you've grew up with them and that's then obviously what's led you into where, you know the field that you are in now. So I absolutely love that there's a bit of a story behind someone, you know, liking a breed or doing the job they're doing. So thank you for sharing that. That's absolutely lovely. So we're gonna be moving on to our next section, which is what? Which is what makes the English Toy Terrier so special. Now I've met Nala. I've been very fortunate enough to meet Nala. She's a little diamond blesser. So they're lovely little dogs and she does look like a bit of a miniature is it miniature pincher? She looks like one of those, and she's got a similar colors and markings of a pincher and adobe. So what are some of the everyday joys you experience with living with an English toy Terrier? Nicki?

For me it's the amazing loyalty and affection. She is a cuddly dog. She will cuddle up to you, but a lot of English toy Terry Ronans, as well as me will tell you that one of the most awesome and funny habits is the bury under blankets.

Oh, okay.

You have to be careful where you sit down in our house because, well, my house, because it's, I mean, we've just, we, we've managed to get a bit of a collection. Now, once people know, you find that you get different kinds of blankets as gifts and because you, they know that Nala berry's under them. And then and it is just, you know, you having a bad day. You can't fail to like. Lighten up when you see her just kind of proper, like dead in and then, and then she just kind of does, and you just see this blanket squirming about and then she just kind of parks herself and it's this blob. Or she might have a head sticking out or she might have her bum sticking out and. It's just so funny. I think I should just I've got so many different funny pictures of her in her Positions. And it's like

that.

my mum makes and designs and make bakes and designs amazing, like different cake designs, like animals, album covers for friends and family. Over the years we've had so many different ones dependent on what our craze is at the moment. And last year for my birthday she made a cake out of, a blanket with an English to terrier head. So it's basically she made a cake out of Nala, burying herself under the blanket.

I love that. Brilliant. That sounds lovely. No, we've got a a blanket barrier. We've got a, as you know, we've got a few chihuahuas and

Oh.

got one Milo. He absolutely loves just burying himself under a blanket and then all of a sudden you'll be like, where's my love it. He's literally right under a blanket and he pokes his head out and it is like. He's made his little nest to his den and he is like, leave me here. And I'm like, oh, I feel like that some days. Just wanna bury under the covers. So that's, that's really cute. So that, obviously, you know, that sounds all really good fun. So moving on to our next question then. So they sound like the perfect combo of a cozy lap dog and an adventure buddy. So what kind of lifestyle would you say suits them best?

Yeah. Absolutely in one, you know, she'd love her life to be one big duvet day.

We? Don't we all?

yep. It would be nice to spend the day in the life of, of Nala, but the same time she is, they are that perfect cafe companion. You know, you can I mean, she loves. And, and I think a lot of, when you sort of meet other English choice, ETT Terry owners, they're the, the same will say that they're, they take them everywhere they can go and they like just being with their person

They do.

And Nala, I know every dog's an individual, but Nala does kind of like the attention of people. And so yeah, and, and you know, what they say about how dogs are so good for our mental health, like getting us out on

they do say that. Yeah.

and it's very similar with like where, you know, when I can take her to, whenever I like do go to like somewhere socializing. Very rarely, but you know, you go people,

Well, well, we go socialize, don't we meet up every so often And Nala comes along, don't she? When when we meet for lunch or co coffees with the, with a group of us in the area as pet professionals, you bring Nala to. And she, she loves it, don't she? She's very sociable.

exactly. She loves it and, and I, I sort of feel good having her with me.

No, that's good.

Which

Yeah.

Yeah. So they are that perfect companion that, you know, you can take as long as you know, they've been socialized correctly and aren't sort of anxious. I mean, you know, I don't take Fred with me because I know he wouldn't enjoy it. He'd.

That's fair enough.

the attention, but

Yeah.

comes everywhere with me. She's so, so handy. And again, like regarding lifestyle, you know, they're, they're quite easy maintenance in terms of their coat. Gr short hair, smooth head, so best of both worlds in that you don't need to. Take them to the groomers to have their haircut and also her hair's so light that she barely sh that she doesn't shed at all. And I know as a breed it's generally little to no shedding.

Yeah, and it's probably good because you are groomer yourself, aren't you? So if you do, she does need a little bit of a brush up. You are, you are groomer as well, so you could do it for her.

Yeah. Yeah. It's I, well, when they see me with my, when people see me out and about with nla, who looks like a Doberman puppy and Fred, who looks like a Rottweiler puppy with his mix, they do say like, oh, I love how you have short hair dogs.

Yeah. Oh, brilliant. I know. That's lovely. It's nice to, nice to see how they, you know, fit into different lifestyles and stuff. So have you found that people often mistake or label the breed? Nicki mislabel the breed Nick, I.

Yes. Well, so gets Doberman Puppy a lot.

Yeah, I can imagine

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She obviously gets miniature pincher a lot

Yeah. Is the, is there a, sorry to interrupt. Is there a big difference then between the ETT and the miniature pincher? Like are they from, or they just completely different dogs, or they just look similar?

Yeah, I believe they just look similar.

Yeah.

they they are different breeds. So there is the Manchester Terrier, which in America they call English Toy Terriers, the Toy Manchester Terriers.

Oh, okay. That's interesting.

the Manchester Terrier is, is I, I think they, I think they do standard Manchester Terrier and Toy Manchester Terrier, whereas in the UK it will be English Toy Terrier and then the Manchester Terrier alone.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So you were saying that they often get mistaken for Adobe Puppy. Is there any other mistakes that people often mistake or mislabel them as?

Very, so yeah, it's mostly do and puppy or miniature pincher. Very occasionally she's had Chihuahua and I think not with those legs.

No. No, not at all. She's not, she's not as yappy as a chihuahua, not like mine anyway. She's always just so chilled out and quiet whenever I've met her.

Oh, she's so g Good often in the cafes and the restaurants. Yeah, she's, she, it is, I, I just love being able to take her with me.

Yeah. No, that's good. Brilliant. Okay, perfect. Let's move on to our next section then. So this is all about what potential guardians pet parents should know, and I did like it when you said about how you sort of researched the breed as well, because we are really big on, I. Well, I'm personally very big on, you know, potential pet parents researching the breed if they're gonna look to get a puppy to make sure that puppy's gonna fit their lifestyle, their home life. So I'm really big on sort of, you know, people researching the breed, particularly, you know, what they originally bred for whether a p or a. What are your colleague is gonna be good for your, for your home life and you've gotta obviously manage them and sort of tap into what they were bred for and meet those needs in terms of mental stimulation and stuff. So I liked that you said that you did do your research as well, so that's good. 'cause we're really big on sort of promoting people researching before they get a a dog. So my first question. Would be from your experience what should people really consider before welcoming an ETT into their life?

Yeah. I know we are gonna come onto sourcing responsible breeders

Yeah.

obviously. Getting those appropriate health tests done so that you've got a healthy dog is obviously important. They are generally a healthy breed as long as the appropriate health tests have been done. So, such as eye testing, that sort of thing. So while they don't need grooming they will, the chances are they will need their nails cutting. So obviously again, it's that normal like with any breed, even if they're short hair, you still wanna get that handling training in to get them used to having nails examined, having teeth examined, potentially anal glands.

Yeah. Yeah yeah.

of vet checks that the vet would do

Yeah.

and, you know, sourcing out appropriate what the best diet for them is so that they are kept in good condition, their, their short coat and they're and making sure they don't have dietary upsets with the correct diet.

Yeah.

For Optimum Health. They with their short coat, you've obviously got the sensitivities to the weather.

Yes.

yeah, you know, I never thought I'd be that person that would be looking up dog coats on the

Oh.

but then, you know, I got a little dog that feels the cold, so she does need her EQU fleece.

Yeah, definitely.

and

Good choice.

Yeah, yeah. EQU Fleece is a brilliant brand.

Yeah.

so yeah, there is that sensitivity. A coat on them in the cold weather.

Yeah.

the rain.

Oh, okay. I think that must be a little dog thing. Is it? Well, actually, I dunno. I walk a lot of different sized dogs and as you, you know, you work with different ones, but my, I know, for example, my little ones, my poodles more so my toy poodles, they're proper. Princesses and precious when it comes to the rain, they will really not like going out to the wee, but the chihuahuas, they're not particularly fuss, but they'd go out and do their business and quickly come in. But the toy pr they just prance around. If they just went out and did it, they'd be able to come back in. But no, they'd prance around and you know, it's like, oh my God, I'm getting my little, my little paws wet. But yeah, I didn't know if it was just a small dog thing, but maybe it's all boys. But yeah, the et ts like it as well.

yeah, she put, so her previous owner, she put in the little, when she put like the bag that all the stuff that she sort of gave me to take with her and she'd left a note and one of the things she said is house trains, but et ts think the rules change when the weather's bad.

That's funny. That's so funny. Oh, bless her. Almost need like a little umbrella for him, don't we? To kind of. Keep them dry when we go out. Perfect. So we did touch on breed and so let's go to that question next then. So how can potential guardians be sure they're going to a responsible breeder? Nikki.

Yeah. So there, it's obviously you, you've got the English Toy Terrier breed club,

Okay.

and that they often, like with any breed club, they will have a list of of what. Of, of breeders and obviously always recommending having a chat with them. And and again, it goes back to making sure those appropriate health tests have been done like luxating patella and the

Okay.

It's, and. You know, they should be glad to show you that paperwork.

mm.

as well as the vaccinations, the worming, they should be ha able to show you that paperwork. They should be passionate about the breed as well. You know, you should be able to say, have a conversation with them about the breed. They should want to tell you everything good and everything bad, you know,

Yeah.

you why do you want an English toy terrier? And hopefully you do have a conversation that's just passionate about that. Rather than, you know, the puppy mills that have just got multiple breeds, good.

No, definitely not. Yeah.

you should get the feel that they are breeding for the ultimate. Health and the ultimate temperaments of their

Okay. Yeah,

and again, being a vulnerable breed, you'd like to hope that they are precious about who those puppies go to,

definitely.

very precious about the care of those puppies and the

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Is there many breeders in the UK then of, of this particular breed? Or is it, like you say, going via that, that club? The, sorry, I forgot their name.

going via the club, but I do have to shout out for the Facebook groups. They've been a lot of the breeders are very active on there.

Good.

they've been so, they've always so friendly and approachable. I have to say, 'cause where I love dog loads of different dog breeds. I am on a few. Breed groups

Yeah.

but honestly shout out to the ETT ones. They're all friendly and approachable with all the questions that you have. And also ne I've never seen anything dodgy with recommending aversives with any training methods or anything like

Oh, that's,

be a problem in other breed,

yeah.

in certain groups. I've never seen anything dodgy like that. And, and just. Yeah, they've, they've all been so nice and like, I mean, so I, so looking on the English Toter Breed Club the Breeders, you then sort of rec, I then sort of recognized all the names in the group. So yeah, so you know that they're obviously active. You see photos and videos of their dogs and their litters, and you can just see the passion and the care that's going in.

Oh good.

yeah,

No, that's really good. No, that's good to know. You men, you mentioned about obviously the health test and the luxate patello. I didn't know if that was like a smaller dog thing as well. 'cause I know that one of my toy Peles has got a bit of a, a bit of that and one of the chihuahuas, so I didn't know if that was just generally a small dog thing, if that affected most dogs. But I'm hearing a lot of it sort of the smaller dogs.

Yeah, it's I think it is a lot of small dogs that have to be careful for it.

Yeah. Yeah, they do that sort of skip, don't they? And it can often be mistaken for that. Yeah. Brilliant. Alright, so what would you say, Nikki, to someone who's only ever had large breeds but is considering downsizing to a smaller dog?

Cool. well, you poop picking is easier for one thing.

That is so true. And as a dog walker of, of different sized dogs, the Labrador poop is very different to a a little miniature schnauzer and my little ones actually. Yeah. So yeah. Not the bigger the dog, the normally the bigger the poop. Yeah.

But yeah obviously extra careful with making sure they don't get injured. You know, it's, it's all very well having the dog that you can sort of carry around to places, it does make it sort of easier when it's the, when it's right. But but it's obviously, again, extra care with being injured. You know, they could break a leg jumping out of your arms.

Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

extra careful in the, especially in the puppy stage with things like step, I mean, I know that that. To be fair, that's every breed really, because obviously with the larger breeds, it's hips, you've got to be extra careful of, isn't it, and hip dysplasia. But again, it's just that extra careful of, of how fragile they can be getting injured

Mm.

like stairs and with jumping off sofas, jumping on off beds, that sort of thing

Yeah.

And then socialization as well, you know, it's obviously making sure that it's done with appropriate. Dogs, you know they

Yeah,

that it's quite good to seek out calm adult dogs that know how to interact, disengage appropriately. But like, it is maybe not such a good idea to take 'em to a puppy party with big boisterous dogs that are maybe likely to knock 'em flying and,

this is Trey.

Appropriate. So appropriate, meets appropriate socialization so they don't have get injured.

Yeah, this is true. And I was just thinking as you were saying that obviously if you're used to a big dog and then you have a small one, you have to be careful. 'cause it could get under your feet as easily, you could trip over him causing yourself an injury as well as the little dog.

Yeah, yeah, exactly

Yeah.

It's so it is all sort of, yeah, it's sort of like, oh, I didn't know they were there. Which I imagine probably wouldn't happen so much if you had a big dog.

Yeah, that's true. Brilliant. Okay, that's great. Thank you so much. So moving on to our next section, which is all about what are vulnerable breeds and why should we care? So a vulnerable breed is one. With fewer than 300 puppies registered per year. I didn't know that. And it also includes breeds like the deer hound field, spaniel, cardigan, corky, sky, terrier, and more. And then the, the breeds fall out of favor due to trends, lack of exposure, all their original. Work and well no longer being needed. So what's your understanding of what defines a vulnerable breed and why is it important that we talk about this?

Yeah, exactly. A vulnerable breed is a breed where less than 300 puppies have been registered per year.

Hmm.

Vulnerable native breeds, breeds of British and Irish origins that are considered vulnerable because of their declining numbers. So it is important that we talk about this because well, when you have a breed as wonderful as the English Choy terrier, and you know, I just, see, so there, there are just so many wonderful things about Nala with how affectionate and loyal she is, but also, you know. the easy maintenance in so many the ways, the ways the, the fact that, I mean, as you've said, when you've seen her, when she's out and about and how lovely she is

Yeah, just like,

you, They're, but they're you know, they're rare they're rarer than the, a lot of endangered species like the giant panda.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.

it's so, you know, if you look on the Kennel Club website, it will obviously say how many sort of puppies have been registered

Mm-hmm.

It's and it's at the moment, 2024, I believe was about 66. But yeah, so many breeds that are rarer than a lot of the endangered what species? Like the giant panda. And there's just so many wonderful breeds on there, you know, as well as the English Choy terrier the deer. I love the deer hound.

I, and I don't even know what a deer hound is, Nikki. I've seen it right down here in my prep, but I've never heard of a deer hound. A, a failed spaniel, a cardigan corgi. I know what a corgi is, but I've not heard of a cardigan corgi or a sky tar. I've never heard of any of these dogs, so it is not surprising, is it If they're classed as vulnerable, if they don't? Get as much, you know?

No kind of sort of like exposure on how like there is for endangered species.

yeah. So when you said you like the deer hound, what, what's the deer hound look like then? Do you, do you know? Are you able to tell her?

again, a similar breed would be the Irish Wolf Hound.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

yeah, so barely sort of looks wise.

Mm.

but yeah, it's so there. I love them 'cause I love sight hounds. So it's kind of a shaggy shaggy sight hound.

Yeah. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. Like I said, I had no idea that this, that, that they were classed as a vulnerable breed if they had less than 300 puppies, Richard, per, yeah. That's really interesting. And I didn't know that until we started talking about this and doing the prep for this episode. So that's really, really interesting. And so moving on, do you think social media and celebrity culture has made the rare but wonderful breeds harder to protect?

Yes, massively. People see what's in the media. They see what an influencer's. Dog. They see a celebrity's dog. They like what's popular, what's in fashion. And like you say, they just never see. We just don't see these breeds on social media through our feeds. Sometimes the only time you'll see them is if you do watch GRTs, and that's not always such a good thing. So you might see like the sky, if you see the sky terra and the bearded coley and they're beautiful. But you might see that long coat and think, you know, oh no. But then you know, just putting it out there, you don't have to have their hair. Like quite like that, you know, it's your dog, your hair, your choice. You can have you can have it how you want. And you know, so, but that's, that's, again, that could contribute. You might sort of see a breed like that and maybe be put off by the coat care. But then that's no different to a lot of the breeds that are popular.

Hmm.

But where coat coat care is a factor, obviously, but the. There, there, so there is that.

Yeah.

so yeah, they just don't get the exposure. People just like, they what's popular.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Great. That's fair enough. So do you think there are risks in promoting a vulnerable breed too heavily?

Yeah. The same as if you promote a popular breed too heavily you get what we call the greeters or the puppy mills. Puppy Jump on the bandwagon and then decide they're gonna breed them really irresponsibly without any thought for the health and the temperament of the pups, and obviously owners get, and then you'll get. Irresponsible owners as well if they see that they're really popular that haven't done their research. So yeah. And then like with some of the popular breeds, sadly you'll get unhealthy puppies and puppies that are an extra anxious, fearful because they've been bred from a puppy mill.

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Perfect. So let's move on to our next section, which is all about celebrating other. Under the radar breed. So I've got noted here, there's a few we've spoken about obviously Deer hound already, but we've got setters nor Norridge and Norfolk Terriers and Lancaster healers. So you don't see many Lancia healers do. We used to have a client in my dog walking business a few years ago that was a Lancaster healer, and they're, they're very rare, aren't they? They're lovely little dogs and you look at them, people dunno what they are.

mm And kind of similar-ish, looking again to the English Toy Terrier.

Yeah.

not as much as a miniature pincher, but bla

Yeah.

Fred supposedly, according to his DNA's, got Lanker Shaila in him.

Really. Okay. So I'm not really, I'm not really familiar with a Norridge or Norfolk Terri, are they, are they similar to any more Well name breeds.

I, they look, you are probably so where there's a lot of mixed breeds in the W world at the moment, you could potent. You are probably, I've seen a lot of Terry and mixes that are very similar, looking to Norwich and Norfolk Terriers.

Okay.

Because they look like little brown, scruffy terriers.

Oh, okay. Good. Brilliant. And with setters, do they mean like Irish setters and English setters? Yeah. Is that the I?

an Irish red Setter, you've got

That's the one.

Setter.

We used to have an an Irish, an Irish red Setter, and anyone that used to see, I used to have one as a walking client and one as a training club. Anyone that would see us out, every time we'd get a comment, oh, you don't see many of them about anymore, but apparently they were really popular in the seventies or something.

Yeah, they definitely there's definitely a different popular breeds for different decades.

Yeah, that's that's true, isn't it?

Yeah.

Brilliant.

Afghan hound was popular at one point. I.

Yeah. God, they look like some kind of a loreal advert, like with their sort of long hair and looks. And one of my colleagues and friends, he, he looks after them sometimes got some friends with some Afghans. Brilliant. So what would you say, are there any vulnerable breeds that you feel particularly passionate about beyond the English Toy Terrier?

Oh. So I know we've already touched on the Deer Hounds but I love my sight hounds, so I've gotta give them a mention. Ev every. Dog is an individual, so you never want, so you always gotta put that out there before you talk about them. But a lot of owners say that they, again, they love their sofa. So again, you've got a really nice affection at sofa buddy. But at the same time, being aware of the high prey drive when they're outside. So again, providing all the suitable outlets and suitable stimulation exercise. And then you've just got a lovely companion, lovely calm sofa companion.

Yeah.

if you fancy, I mean, no breed is easy. So you know, at the end of the day it's like raising a child, but if you fancy more of a challenge, you've got the miniature English Bull Terrier.

Well, yeah.

I've got a soft spot for them. I just think they're just so quirky

Oh.

yeah. Yeah. And I used to know someone who bred them as well as the standard ones. And so I used to go round and see the puppies. And again, they're just, they're a breed that's. to be close to you. Well, again, every dog's an individual, but they really like to be close to you and get all that love and stroking and attention. Just a lot stronger than an English story terrier,

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

much fun.

Yeah. Brilliant. Okay. And that was a miniature bull. Terry, did you say?

Miniature English Bull Terrier.

I don't think I've seen a miniature English baller before.

Oh, they,

Have to have a look at, have to have a look at one of those.

yeah. If you've got the time to dedicate to the training and and the out and giving them appropriate outlets, then I, I would love one.

Brilliant. Brilliant. Okay. Would you what would you say are some ways that guardians can honor a breed's heritage, even if they're not working dogs anymore?

Definitely gun dog training for the gun dogs. As long as you seek out a positive reward-based trainer that doesn't use corrections and adversive, 'cause there's a few old fashioned. sometimes gun dog training can have a bit of a bad name because people a lot, there are some trainers that use some of the more old fashioned corrections aversive. So as long as you see cattle positive reward based gun dog trainer, then you know, you are harnessing all those skills that were sort of specifically bred into them through different games, retrieving games, that sort of thing. And any breed can do it because it is just those sort of skill. I've, I've done it with Fred. He's not got any gun dog in him according to his DNA, but he enjoys it.

Yeah.

so I, I do think that's a lovely outlook for them.

Yeah. Yeah.

your dog walking, you probably find you've got a lot of retrievers that love that retrieving side of things, having

Yeah.

so,

Oh yes.

put it, put it, give them that outlook by giving them retrieving games and different ways of retrieving.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I was gonna say there is some, there is, if someone doesn't want to get into like, maybe the, the kind of maybe more structured or stricter gun dog trainer, there is like pet gun dog stuff you can do as well. Isn't there?

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There's I mean the, like, the stuff I've done with Fred, it's all very kind of. You don't feel like you're sort of on a serious, like training them for a serious hunt or anything like that. It's just not like that. It's, it's just so much fun. And it's sort of not to be taken to, and yeah, def absolutely, definitely you don't have to sort of go and it be all serious as if you're getting them ready for a hunt and not putting a toe out of line. But at the same time, I've heard people say, oh God, aren't you teaching them to go after things? And on the contrary, you are teaching them to stay put unless you say otherwise, until you say so.

Yeah. Good. Well, it's all about having fun with your dogs, isn't it, ultimately. So that's the important thing. Brilliant. So what kind of enrichment or lifestyle activities do you recommend for the terrier type Nicky?

Another one I really love Outlet is scent work.

Yes, do love a bit of scent work. Yeah, I know you're keen on that as well.

yeah, I teach it. It's a lovely one that provides, it, it's calming as well as enjoyable. They love their sniffing. And it's sort of an activity that also boosts those calming endorphins. 'cause they, it calms them down rather than sort of jazzes them up and adds to the arousal. It's sort of like, you know, and it's kind of got, it's just got so many benefits in that it's almost, it's given them a little bit of independence. 'cause to an extent you are sort of stepping back and letting them and just kind of giving them a little bit of guidance while they're searching for the scent. But also you are, you are doing the activity together with them, so it's still adding to that bonding.

Mm.

so you've kind of got the best of both worlds in that way.

Yeah.

You've got trick training, which again, can be really great for the bonding side of things.

Yeah.

you, you often hear people think of Terri as a stubborn and wanting to do their own thing. So trick training's a great option for kind of helping get them motivated by you. Finding diff and there's just so much to it, so many different things you can teach them to do. And again, that helps you learn what they enjoy and what's not for them.

Yeah, definitely.

So own. And then you've got regarding enrichment, you know, again, you've got the you've off, you might have heard, you've probably heard a lot of the trainers that listen to this will be very aware of the predatory motor sequence, which

Yeah.

obviously the hunting sequence. And there's different parts that were bred in for different breeds. And obviously the distinctive part of the terrier is the fact that they love, they obviously were bred too. Long-legged terriers bred to chase and kill short-legged terriers bred to dig and kill. So so they obviously. Again, every dog's an individual, but obviously a lot of terrors will enjoy that shaking, ragging, catching part of that.

Yeah.

you know, getting your recycling together, all the cardboard boxes, paper hide treats so they can really shred and, and have a good, and sort of like rag, you know, a paper, put some treats in a paper bag and let them shred it apart to get the treats.

Mm.

so that they don't in case you will get some that will actually try and ingest the stuff, which is obviously not good. So if you've got one that's gonna ingest it, then maybe try lettuce or cabbage so that it's not gonna harm them if they do. But things like that. And again, you've got toys on the market that harness that shredding ability, like the snuffle balls.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Okay, cool. Thank you. Love, love, love that. Lots of different ideas and activities there. And what I love that you keep on saying and going back to, I love how you keep saying it. All dogs are individual. And they are, it's so Right. But I loved that you, I've picked up and you've said, you've said that a few times now, and I really like that. Sort of outlook is often about working with a dog that's in front of you. And you mentioned obviously some dogs get labeled stubborn, and they're not meaning to be stubborn. It just means that we know there's something going on and we need to find out what that is, or we need to sort of play to their strengths and give them play to their, you know, outlets and stuff and in terms of their mental stimulation. But I absolutely love how you, how you've said about. They all dogs are individual 'cause They are.

Yeah.

I love it.

if in case someone decides to come at me saying, well, my English Troy Terrier hates all the blankets that I bought them.

Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, we can't, we're not all, we're not all the same, which is good because life would be boring if we were all the same, wouldn't it? Brilliant. So, my gosh, Nikki, we've literally sailed through this episode. It's full of lots of useful and insightful information. So we're gonna spend the last sort of five or seven minutes. Wrapping up with some final questions and thoughts. So Nikki, what's your one hope for the future breeds like the English Toy Terrier and others on the vulnerable list? I.

So, yeah, it's obviously not about popularity, you know, it's not about making them the next popular breed. But it is about that awareness. You know, like I said, the, to have such a wonderful breed, the thought of them getting less and less and less is just. You just don't wanna think about that. You just think, think So. I do think they deserve a bit more promotion, fly the flag for such a wonderful breed. It's, and again, going back to the whole, no dog is easy. It's like raising a child. If you're in the position to, that you've, you've, you've done your research and you are ready to take on a puppy or a rescue dog, then definitely have a look at the vulnerable breeds list and see if you can see a breed that might tick the boxes.

Mm.

Definitely,

And it's so important, isn't it, to do your research. Like some, some people may just jump into it, but I can't stress how important it's to do your research. I.

Definitely. And you know, joining those since we are, we do now live in a world of social media, like joining certain breed groups and having a look at what, or even just and, and trying to source out local breeders. Who would be willing to have a chat with you and meet you. It can really sort of like you know, just to be able to go on a walk with the dog and, and just sort of, and you know, we did that with two different households so we got a feel for sort of what they were like as a breed and it, but yeah, I'm not say enough about doing your research. You are absolutely right.

Yeah. So important. So for anyone that's currently looking for a dog, what would you say to encourage them to think beyond the obvious choices? I,

Yeah. So you have got a list of the vulnerable breeds on the kennel Club website.

mm-hmm.

and yeah, it's just thinking about different, what, what you are looking for in a dog, you know, and what you can provide. And, and yeah, just thinking outside the box a bit more, you've got so many breeds on there. They're like the English toy area that's generally a healthy breed and low maintenance in a lot of ways. you know, you've got again, you've the, you've got lots of terriers on there where coat care may be a bit more of an issue. They're gonna need more grooming. But then again, that's, that is the same with a lot of popular breeds.

Mm mm Yeah.

So, yeah, I just, I just think give them a chance.

Yeah. I was just thinking as you said that where, where does the can terrier fit? Would, would you say that's like a, like a vulnerable Yeah. Can terrier,

it has definitely declined.

yeah.

it's it's, I, they were very popular because of Toto from the Wizard of Oz and.

Yes. No. Yeah. The only reason I say about 'em, 'cause I used to walk one and, and the lady was a breeder, but she used to show them at crafts as well, but you don't see many of them around. It's just one I thought of that you don't

They

see many around.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

yeah, I've seen in the news that they've, about how much they've declined. It's and it's just, and when you think about all the different wonderful breeds like the canter, that's when it does become sort of sad to think of them sort of not being around anymore. Again, a breed that's generally quite healthy.

Mm

yeah, got lots

Brilliant.

little quirks about them.

Yeah. Nikki, do you have one top tip that you'd like to just mention to our listeners? For anyone that's looking at getting an ETTI.

Definitely the English toter Facebook groups, like say because I, I just can't believe how friendly and approachable they all are. I.

That's nice.

And and like I said, always like with any, any questions, any posts, there's no sort of I've never seen any bullying or anything in that group. Never promoted any aversive or anything bad like that.

Good.

meet up with the owners. There's a lot of, so in London there's a lot of EETT walks,

Oh, really?

are arranged.

Nice.

I organized a local one in Southampton. We had 10 in the

Well, that's, that's a good.

Yeah. Yeah. And and it's, oh, it's lovely seeing people's take on them, all these tiny little black and tan dogs. so.

Do They only come in black and tan.

Yes.

Oh, okay. I did wonder.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

yeah, they, they only come in black and town, so you see all these tiny little black and town

I.

and you get a lot of fun, like comments.

Yeah, my, one of my chihuahuas, she's, she's a lovely black in tan color. Bella often say that she's like a mini while or Adobe.

Oh.

She's definitely got the similar colors to, to your Nala. Brilliant. So Nikki, apologies I didn't mention your business name at the start of the episode, but your business name is Delightful Dogs Dog Training. So where can people connect with you, learn more about the delightful dogs training approach. Just let our listeners know how they can reach out to you or find out more about

Yep. We are on Facebook delightful dogs training. Look for the lovely photo of the schnauzer, which is Jack.

Yeah.

we are on Instagram, delightful dogs training. Look out for the photo of the English Toy Terrier

Okay.

that's profile picture on Instagram is me with Nala.

Yeah.

so yeah, Facebook, Instagram, and we've got a website. Delightful Dogs dog training.co uk.

Perfect. Thank you so much, Nikki. Thank you so much for joining me today on The Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily. I've really really, really enjoyed this episode. Finding more out finding more out about the English toy terrier and vulnerable breeze. I didn't know much about them. Obviously, I have met your lovely Nala. But it's just been really, really interesting to find out more about the breed. So thank you so much for joining me today on the Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily. I've really enjoyed it.

Thank you for having me. Thank you for the opportunity.

Oh, you are most welcome. Thank you so much, and I will speak to you again soon.

Thank you.

What a warm and informative chat with Nikki Cole. Here are some of the key takeaways from today's episode. Number one, English Toy Terriers are affectionate, funny and incredible, incredibly adaptable. Don't let their small size for you. They're bursting with character number two. Vulnerable breeds need responsible awareness, not hype. It's about thoughtful advocacy, not trend setting. Number three, no breed is an easy breed. Every dog needs time, understanding and support tailored to their unique background and instincts. Number four. There's beauty in diversity, we lose so much. When breeds fade into obscurity. Education is the key to protecting our dog heritage. Nikki, thank you for sharing your story and giving us all a reason to fall in love with the English Toy Terrier. To all our listeners, please check out delightful Dog's Dog training. For more on Nikki's work and training ethos and as always. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a fellow dog lover. Massive apologies if you can hear my dogs yapping in the background during this or the intro on today's episode, but it wouldn't be the yappy hour without having some yappy dogs. This has been The Yappy Hour Powered by Yappily. I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and I'll see you next time.