When I first started backpacking at the barely ripe age of 19, I didn't think very much about where my money was going.

If I'm completely honest, my main goal as I traveled was to spend as little money as possible.

A lot has changed since then.

Over the years, I've become more and more aware of how powerful a tool our tourism dollars are for supporting positive change in the communities that we visit.

There's a lot of direct ways to support communities, like booking locally owned accommodation and hiring local and Indigenous guides.

But beyond what we do as individual tourists, there are ways that businesses we visit can support local communities too.

Today we're unpacking a program that's being used on Vancouver island to support Indigenous sovereignty and stewardship.

It's called the Tribal Park Allies Program, an initiative created by the Colloquial First Nation.

These are the people who've long lived in the Tofino region of the island.

These days you might know Tofino as a very popular tourist spot that's known for its beaches, its wildlife, surfing and hiking.

The Tribal Park Allies Program aims to tap into this tourism by inviting local businesses, from coffee shops to beach resorts and air travel, to become Indigenous Allies.

When they do, they sign an agreement to contribute an ecosystem service fee and commit to respectful and reciprocal tourism.

Not only is this a step towards reconciliation in Canada, but it's making travel to the west coast of so called Canada more community oriented and sustainable.

Here to chat is Julian Hawken Grant, the Tribal Parks Liaison and co creator of the Allies Program.

Welcome to the show, Julian.

Pleasure to be here.

This is Curious Tourism, the podcast focused on making travel better for people and the planet.

I'm Erin Hines, travel writer and content creator, and I'm joined by my producer, Katie Lohr.

That is me.

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So first, you can make sure that you're actually subscribed to the show on your favorite podcast app right now.

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All our contact info is in the show notes.

Well, Katie, normally we talk about travel news, but I think we should chat about something else today before we get into our discussion with Julian because we had a big weekend together last weekend.

We were up at Otter Point Resort, which is one of you and I's favorite places to go in Northern Ontario, especially in the summer.

But we were there because you and your partner Mark got married and threw a banger of a party up there to celebrate.

Thanks.

Thanks.

And we have not discussed the party since you have gotten home yet, so I'm excited to talk about it.

But first of all, thank you for calling it a banger.

I worked very hard to put it together.

It showed the details.

So just so everyone knows, this was a camping themed party.

Yeah, retro, late 70s, early 80s summer camp theme.

So the idea was that it was gonna like, encapsulate, like, what it felt to go to camp when you were a youngin.

So when we were young kids, so we were all like, in the outfits.

But then Katie and Mark like, obviously put so much effort into, like, all these details.

Like, when we arrived, we got these like, cute caps that, like a little badge that said Camp Laurelin on them.

There was like retro camp setups all over the place.

Retro camp games.

It was just like, very thoughtful.

And you really captured the essence of camping.

Camping back in the day.

It was so fun.

I can't believe how much we did.

Mark and I are the type of people that have, like, big visions and a lot of delusion to try and execute them all.

Luckily, we also had my parents who helped a bunch.

Like, we made this sort of classic camp sign that usually you see at the beginning of a hiking trail or something like that that has the map of the trail and some information.

So we made one of those fully.

That was actually a vision of mine.

And then all of a sudden, my dad was like, surprise.

I made one.

Okay, great.

And then we actually gave it back to.

Well, they didn't give it back.

We gave it to Otter Point Resort to keep.

Okay.

I was gonna.

I was gonna ask what you ended up doing with it.

What are they gonna do with it?

They just were, like, so grateful and so excited.

The owners of Otter Point Resort are the best humans of all time.

And they really are really stoked.

So they were like, we're like, do you want it?

They're like, oh, my God, yes.

You know what they could do?

They could, like, put it somewhere, like, sort of at the entrance with, like a map of Otter Point.

We also created like, our own version of a map of the property so people knew where, like, the bathrooms were and where camping and all that stuff was.

And they, we, we gave it to them too because they were like, this is so cool.

It was cool.

How did you make that?

Our friend Brad is a graphic designer.

And then I went onto Pinterest and saw just like a bunch of Wes Anderson style map designs.

And then I drew it on my own and was like, here are all the things that I want.

And then Brad just made it for.

He also made like our camp logo.

He did all the graphic design stuff.

Yeah, very cool.

Yeah, we went all out.

So what were your top three highlights from the day?

Okay, top three highlights.

I mean, number one, Mark and I were spiraling like the week before because we were like 90% sure it was gonna thunderstorm the entire time.

The entire party was outdoors.

So if it was gonna thunderstorm, we were like, great.

Cause we also had a live band which was us.

And we were like, we don' to thunderstorm on like the equipment, all this rental gear we have, and on all of our guests.

It only rained for, I don't know, 20 minutes.

It was pretty hard.

But we had a tent, so.

And then there was a beautiful sunset afterwards, so.

Yeah, but it also kind of rained like at the right moment because it rained right as we were starting dinner.

So we were all in the tent anyways.

Yeah, yeah, so we had rain that was not too bad, which was definitely a highlight.

And then honestly, like, there were some really nice times that I had with Mark's siblings too that I was really excited about.

Our one brother in law was like, mind blown by the band.

He's been with our sister for 18 years and has never seen Mark do a show before and he was like losing his mind.

So that was one of the things I was so excited for was like so many of our friends haven't seen Mark perform or like any of his bandmates.

So I was really excited for that because I thought he crushed it.

He did.

And then there was just so many good times.

I was just loving how everybody was just vibing and like having a nice time.

Everybody was so sweet and nice and it was just overall, like a really great vibe.

Our bartenders were really into it.

Like we're sending them a big tip because they were great.

Yeah, they really were.

It's hard to point out all the highlights.

There was just all around good vibes.

Let me tell you, the dinner, it came with like a decorative flower, like every dish.

And Lucas was like, I think I can eat this flower.

Which we later confirmed, like, yes, it was edible, but he ate it.

And he was like, wow, that's like, so good.

So then he ate, like, Gabby's flower.

And then he, like, looked to the people next to us.

I think it was like, Saria and her partner.

And he was like, can I eat your flowers?

And everyone's just handing the flowers down to Lucas and he's just, like, throwing them into his mouth.

It was so funny.

And then he went and talked to the vendors because they were awesome, too.

And he was like, what flower was that?

It was so good.

Apparently it was supposed to taste like radish or something.

That's what he said.

Yeah, I didn't eat any.

He ate mine before I could try the flower.

So I didn't eat mine either.

And I wish I had known.

I would have given it to him.

I was just like, ooh, this is a cute decorative flower.

I'm just gonna, like, leave it to outside.

Because I've never in my life thought, like, I should eat a flower.

So I just didn't even think to try and eat it.

Yeah.

We had a food truck come in that was really awesome.

Pulled pork sandwiches.

We had a turkey burger, and then there was a curry chickpea wrap, and it was really awesome.

Yeah.

So it was not like a formal sit down.

It was like, go get your box of food and bring it to your table.

Which I liked personally.

Yeah, it was great.

And the food was very good.

Good.

I'm glad you liked it.

You can't tell me if you didn't.

Anyway, so.

No, I genuinely did.

I would not lie.

Okay, great.

And also, all the peanut people got their food first, which was really exciting.

Oh, cute.

Yeah.

Believe it or not, five people at this wedding all allergic to peanuts.

Welcome to millennial wedding season.

Like, I feel like this has got to be the case for the last, like, 10 years.

And for another 10 years, it's just going to be.

So many peanut allergies at weddings.

Yeah.

Because the owner of Otter Point, Abby, also has a peanut allergy and a nut allergy, so it's very nut allergy safe space up at Otter Point, which is nice.

And she made the dessert for the wedding, too, which were delicious.

Butter tarts.

Yep.

So Mark and I actually forgot to eat one that night.

There was one single butter tart leftover, and we ate it together.

We did, like, a Lady and the Tramp style and took a picture of it yesterday morning.

Yeah, I think I ate three.

Good for you.

I'm really glad this is the thing.

Like, I think people who have peanut allergies should always indulge in safe dessert.

And Butter tarts are, like, a tough one.

Like, I. I've basically never had a butter tart because they are always.

They always may contain nuts.

Yes.

So that was, like, the first butter tart that I actually ever remember having in my life, which is why I had to have three.

I'm so glad you had three.

That makes me very happy there.

Also, a friend of mine, I met her fiance, who I'd never met before, and he's originally from the uk and he had never had a butter tart before.

And he was like, oh, my God.

Oh, my gosh.

This was probably such a novel experience for him because, like, camping culture isn't really a thing in the uk.

Not like it is here because we told my friends who are in the UK about your wedding, and they were intrigued because they were like, what is camping?

You Canadians are weird bit.

Why do you want to do this outside?

Force all of your guests to sleep in tents?

Anyone do so.

Could be smart like Aaron and go back to a motel as well.

Honestly, we were really, really appreciating that decision when we saw the forecast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was a fun weekend.

And there was no ceremony at this weekend because Mark and I got married the weekend before.

We had a tiny little ceremony that was really cute with just our parents.

And then we spent the rest of the night bar hopping in Hamilton, which was a blast.

We had a really, really good dinner and it was nice.

I'm glad we did that because we were definitely, like, out with the friends all weekend, and it was hard to get in some, like, nice quality time, even if it was just the two of us.

Your brain is still kind of on, like, party planning mode, so it's hard to sort of, like, turn that off a bit.

So I'm really glad we got our weekend the weekend before.

So it was a perfect week.

Yeah.

As someone who did their wedding in a similar way, I really think it's a great way to do it, but slower.

You get lots of quality time with people.

It's nice.

Well, that's all I have to say about it.

So I'm still processing it all.

I know, because you literally got home yesterday.

Yeah, I just got home, like, last night at 5pm and we haven't even, like.

We still have all of our crap, like, packed.

We haven't unpacked anything.

It's just out of the car.

We have a bunch of stuff we're gonna try and sell on Facebook.

Marketplace.

Yeah, yeah.

The adventure continues.

All right, well, shall we get to chatting with Julian?

Yes.

Let's do it.

So for folks who aren't familiar, could you explain exactly what the Tribal Park Allies Initiative is?

And I'd also love to hear how it came to be.

Yeah.

When I was a younger guy just learning a little bit about the TLA Okwe First Nation and about the TLA Okwe Tribal parks, there was a lack of interpretive content that kind of made visitors aware of whose traditional territory they were on, much less sort of the history, the really intriguing and soul stirring history and politics of the region.

The Okut First Nation have been strong and active caretakers of the traditional territory for a really long time.

I always, when I walk into those big old beautiful forests, catch myself assuming that I'm in this wilderness, this sort of place that's absent of influence from people.

And I have to remember that even me, who's studied this and has a master's degree in this kind of stuff and has spent years talking about it, I still fall into that conditioned colonial way of thinking.

The Tiloquid Tribal Parks are sort of a colloquit way of articulating a relationship that they have and have maintained.

So tribal parks is sort of a way to try to evoke the notion of a national park or a place that is cared for.

Tl Okwe call it the Hofi or the TL Okwe' e Ha', way, which means like the property or the areas that the hereditary chiefs are responsible for caring for.

And unfortunately, today, like other places in British Columbia and around the world, there are these huge externalities around tourism.

Tourism is not a very equitable industry.

In Tofino, $600 million gets made.

But the population of Clackwood Sound, which is 50% indigenous, has some pretty intense poverty.

And infrastructure is not where it needs to be to meet the needs of the locals there.

And most of that money, economic leakage, I think, is a term that's used in tourism when the money doesn't stay local and.

And doesn't benefit locals.

And at the same time, while indigenous people in particular are not benefiting from the revenue that's generated from the exploitation of the traditional territories through tourism, they're also disproportionately impacted by tourism activities.

It drives up the cost of living.

It makes it really difficult to practice culture without visitors who don't understand what's going on, kind of coming up and taking pictures and getting in the middle of it all.

Parking is a very fiery political issue in Tofino for all these indigenous folks who live offshore in their villages or, you know, in float homes or in cabins, there's nowhere to park and there's paid parking.

And there's been non stop argument between the nation and the District and other players, industry proponents about parking.

That's a really tough issue there.

So other industries in British Columbia have pretty clear regulations about what businesses are required to do to engage and consult with first nations to create impact benefit agreements.

This is pretty standard in mining and fisheries and forestry, but it doesn't exist in tourism.

It's under regulated.

So the Tiloquid Tribal Park Allies program was created to create a market incentive for businesses to do what they should already be doing under UNDRIP and under the truth and reconciliation calls to action and under these other legal frameworks and also laws and protocols.

But there's no cultural norm of doing that.

So it's been a real big mindset, change, struggle, and we've been doing it since 2018.

Before we go more into it, I'm also just curious to hear about what the colloquial involvement was in the tourism in Tofino.

Like in the tourism sphere, running businesses or like running tours themselves.

What kind of involvement did they have?

And like, were they benefiting from the explosion of tourism that started happening in Tofino a few decades ago?

I know that when fishing and logging in these primary industries that were the livelihood for the majority of people in Tofino, when the community started to transition away from relying on those industries, there was a big gap that needed to be filled.

So tourism really was the way forward.

It was the alternative.

But I still think to this day isn't participating very significantly in the industry.

Their market share in that local industry is pretty small.

When the residential school closed, the First Nation was able to get the property on what was formerly called Mackenzie beach, but has recently been reclaimed as Tiniwis Beach.

They were able to get that property back.

That was the residential school and that is now the Tinwest Best Western Resort, which is owned and controlled by the First Nation.

So that's where they have one of the bigger hotels in the region, belongs to the nation.

And they're trying to make it into sort of like a center for people to come and learn about colloquial history and culture.

And that's been a really interesting journey.

That's interesting to me too, because we talk often on this show about focusing on staying in locally owned accommodation.

So generally we would say to avoid a Best Western.

It's interesting to hear that they own a Best Western, because I guess it is.

Well, it's like the best.

Maybe a franchise.

Yeah.

So they have decided to.

I don't know if it'll be like this forever, but currently they use Best Western's brand to attract folks who have.

They've got all their, you know, loyalty programs and stuff like that.

Yeah, it really is like, it does bring those benefits because yeah, a lot of people will automatically choose to book Best Western because it's what they know.

And as you say, they have their points.

Yeah.

But yeah.

So I'm also curious to hear what is your involvement with the program?

How did you come to it, to working with the nation?

It actually kind of started before my master's.

I've been recreating and tourism since I was a young guy.

I did my undergraduate degree at Quest University and had the opportunity to study with a Squamish Nation lady named Lee Joseph.

She's an ethnobotanist, ethno ecologist, very cool.

And she took us up to Tofino and we spent some time with another pretty amazing guy, Eli Enns, who's now head of the Isaac Alam foundation, which has done a lot of advocacy at the federal level for indigenous protected and conserved areas, which is sort of Canada's strategy for meeting our 30 by 30 United nations conservation commitments.

Eli welcomed us to Okwuit territory and introduced us to the tribal parks and shared some of his wisdom and it was a pretty eye opening experience for me.

Then I went on to do a master's in anthropology, environment and development and I ended up coming back to Tofino, back to Okwa territory to learn more about tribal parks.

What was the history?

What was the vision for the future?

I got to know Saya Masu, who's the lands manager and has been my mentor since 2017 when I was a student.

And to understand some of the challenges that they were dealing with at that moment in time, and working with tourism proponents and industry operators to make sure that the storytelling that they use is consistent with the story that the First Nation wants to see put out there.

Back then, Tofina was mostly marketed as the wild west coast wilderness kind of place where people would come out and fish and surf and all this stuff.

But then we're getting the indigenous story and people were able to come and visit and stay and play and recreate and leave again, never even understanding that they had entered and left this traditional territory, which is pretty sad considering how the customary welcomes used to be there.

And so the real challenge they're having is this industry was running roughshod over their aspirations and Dreams for the area.

There had been an effort for the better part of a decade before I showed up to legislate some kind of fee or to create carbon credits system.

But there's really no political will from the district or the DMO or the operators or anybody to support that kind of thing.

So at that time, my brother was working for a global gender equity certification standard called edge.

The idea of a certification standard came from just seeing my brother in that space.

So I actually pitched the idea to Saya and we were able to find a little bit of funding.

And Saya and I have been working very closely together ever since.

I did a lot of like pounding the pavement and knocking on doors.

And there's a huge amount of education that goes into, especially in those days, like we didn't have an outward facing brand.

So there was a lot of just direct conversations with business owners about why we felt that it was important for them to participate in this program.

And now we have a brand and we have a marketing manager and.

And we have a really good relationship with the dmo.

When I first pitched the program to their previous director, I got a pretty hard no, the new guy, he's right in there with us and they give us 1% of the revenue they earn.

And they also directly support a lot of our marketing efforts and advocate for us.

And we've now got the district of Tofino enclosing our materials in with their business license application documents.

So anybody who wants to start a business in Tofino or Dubin San Tofino, they're going to be seeing us.

Actually, I should tell you, I learned of this program through the dmo.

I spoke with them at a travel conference recently and they mentioned the Park Allies program.

Yeah, they opened a lot of doors for us.

That's great.

That's kind of like collaboration that you want to see in the tourism industry.

When I first heard about the program, it really made me think about these tourist taxes that can sometimes be controversial.

Like you see a lot of debate about these tourist taxes, especially in Europe.

A lot of disgruntled tourists that don't want to pay like an extra $5 per day to visit Venice or another over touristed city.

And so that's what first came to mind, which makes me curious.

Like when you first pitched this program, is that how people viewed it?

Were they concerned that visitors to the colloquial region wouldn't be receptive to paying this tax?

Because it is essentially a tax, right?

It just gets added to whatever you're purchasing From a business.

Yeah.

So businesses are asked to voluntarily sign a protocol agreement with the First Nation.

Protocols are sort of what we also call them, like our certification standards.

And it's not a hard line.

And right at the top of the document it's a one page thing.

And right at the top it says, this isn't like a legally binding document.

This is a shared expression of an intention to kind of walk along a path towards a shared aspiration together.

And they include acknowledging the traditional territory as a colloquial, acknowledging that you're on their territory, you're doing business on the territory, and telling a story about the region that's consistent with the history and politics and the narrative that the First Nation wants to see put out there in the world.

There are other things like reporting poaching or environmental concerns or concerns that you see on the territory to the Tahloqu Tribal Park Guardian Stewardship Program.

And then we ask them to collect a 1% fee from their guests and flow it through to the First Nation.

We have currently 140 businesses participating.

There are 700 business licenses issued in Tofino.

I think 400 of them or so are short term rental, Airbnb type things.

And then there are quite a few that are not really tourism facing.

And while those businesses are welcome to participate and actually expected to participate, our focus is really on the tourism industry.

We worked really closely with the DMO on their website and they have this really cool map tool that allows people to kind of like look around and turn off these filters for what they're looking for.

So if you're looking for a green business, you can flip that on and off.

Or a UNESCO Biosphere Certified business or Tribal Park Ally, we agreed to have it set so that the Tribal Park Ally widget is default to turn on.

People can turn it off if they want to, but you can look at a map of the region and it's showing the Ally businesses.

We also have them listed on our website.

And there's lots of every business around town that is an ally supposed to put up a plaque and stickers and let people know.

And we're getting better and better about putting physical things up around town that educate people about the program.

The Tribal Park Allies website is where I found the giant list of all of the businesses.

And I was like, wow, pretty blown away by just how many were on there.

I just wanted to ask this question to you.

If you were to plan like a full day trip in the colloquial region area with troubled Park Allies businesses, What would that look like to you?

Okay.

Well, I guess it kind of depends on your budget, but there's a lot of really cool things you can do in Tofino these days.

I'm a surfer and whenever I go to Tofino, that's what I try to get.

I try to get straight into the water.

So if you're looking to rent a board, I would probably go straight to Storm Surf Shop there, right in the center of town.

If you're looking for a kayak, there's Tofino Sea Kayaks right on Main street or Paddle west kayaking.

Those two have been long time allies.

And you can rent a paddle, you can rent a kayak from them and you can paddle across the inlet to the Big Tree Trail, which is ground zero of where the tribal parks became expressed as such.

Some of the biggest, most spectacular old growth forest you'll ever see.

It's a spectacular opportunity to go there if you got the budget too.

One of the coolest experiences I've ever had was going up into Lemons Inlet, which is sort of right in the, in between the two big arms of Mears island.

And there's a place called the Moon Jelly Bath House.

And they've built these wood fired baths and they throw a bunch of seaweed in there and it just turns into this like steamy goo.

It's very, very cool.

One of the most restorative experiences I ever had.

Steamy goo.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just pinned all of this.

My brother lives in Victoria and so I try to go once a year and then we, we like to go up to Titofino together and treat each other to like, experiences like that.

So now I know what to bring him to do.

That looks so fun.

Check it out.

You'll feel like a jellyfish by the end.

All the most recent travels I've done around Canada, this thing that always stands out to me is always like the indigenous guide that I did a medicine walk with or the powwow that I was invited to observe, or just two weeks ago I was in Yukon and went to long ago people's place.

They've recreated southern Tuchon first nations culture on a piece of land there.

And they teach you all about like the history of the nation on that land.

And you know, like, I tell people I was just in Yukon and they're like, oh, how was the wildlife and the mountains?

And like, of course that was all incredible.

But like, this was the experience that really stood out to me.

And so we're also losing out by not putting the effort into building these bridges between us culturally and learning about these people and their culture because it's so beautiful.

And it's something that can really enrich like our experience not just as like settlers living here, but like through our travel experiences as well.

At least that's been my experience, especially in recent years as I really seek out these experiences when I'm traveling.

Yeah, I think that anyone you talk to has had the privilege of enjoying that kind of interpretive experience.

Like it's moving, it stirs your heart and it awaits up something inside you.

And it makes people more receptive to acknowledging our responsibility to try to make the world a better place.

I think a sort of symptom of entitlement and being on the upside of an oppressive relationship.

It allows us to feel as though we can tune out or like not participate.

When I look at Tribal Park Allies, I'm really proud looking at like this every year I'm like, ah, like I get impatient and things aren't happening fast enough and I'm like, I get really frustrated at certain people who I've been like patiently trying to build relationship with and talk to for seven years now and we're still not there yet.

And I get so frustrated.

But then I look back and I'm like, okay, we actually, our numbers are coming up and the revenue is coming up and the relationships that we have are really improving across like the different organizations that sort of form the decision making, power nexus of this little community.

Things are really like the fabric of the community has changed.

But it's also frustrating for me because it feels so slow day to day.

And I know that what I'm feeling is a fraction of what the people who are living this stuff are feeling.

There's a lot of frustration, a lot of anger.

A huge amount of the labor of creating a program and maintaining a program like Trial Park Allies is the patient, educational, conversational, perspective shifting work.

It's hard.

And I know that I've blown it with a lot of people too, so I've kind of.

It's frustrating and we live in a really crazy time too where there's a lot of confusion and anger and frustration.

I wanted to talk about Indigenous Tourism British Columbia, which is a not for profit organization that works really closely with Destination BC and the Ministry of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport in British Columbia.

They have a. I can't remember what it's called.

It's not a memorandum of understanding, but it's some kind of pathway document that they signed with Destination bc which is A crown corporation responsible for growing and stewarding tourism in British Columbia which is a huge industry out here.

I don't know if these numbers are to be believed.

I think they might be inflated.

But Destination BC's numbers say that tourism in British Columbia brought in $18.5 billion in 2024.

And that's more than mining, that's more than forestry.

It's more than any other industry.

It's a huge amount of money for bc.

So it is pretty striking that this lack of regulation exists.

But Indigenous tourism BC has asked me to work with them on creating a program called the B.C.

sorry, we need a better name.

But it's the B.C.

first nations led Tourism Destination Fund and it's in pretty early stages.

There was an announcement about it last November after the agm.

But they have asked me to kind of create a framework for a provincial program.

They would support the 205 nations in B.C.

to if they want to create their own Tribal park allies style program to normalize this across the province and maybe create.

We have this awesome success story of Tahoki Tahloku.

It's a really strong nation and it didn't come out of nowhere.

I showed up in 2018 and got to lead the development of Tribal park allies.

But built on the back of the 30 years of articulating a tribal park and you know, a couple thousand years of relating in a certain way to a place.

But they were trying to create this program that will support First nations across B.C.

to articulate their own standards for tourism and fees if they want to do so.

And then ITBC would certify these independent nation led regional programs under a provincial designation.

So to sort of multiply the market incentive for businesses to participate.

So if a business gets signed up by the nation where they operate.

The point is we want to bring businesses together with the nations where they are operating.

And the provincial designation is intended to not replace the relationship building between the business and the First Nation but incentivize it.

Try to indigenize province wide destination marketing and create that alignment between destination market organizations, industry operators and First Nations.

I was hoping you would have a vision for expanding this province wide, maybe nationwide, eventually across Canada.

Would be amazing to see.

So we'll keep our eye out here in Ontario.

Thanks.

Yeah, I see it as a, as a coalition building thing.

It's very much like a participatory community led process.

And my hope, my aspiration, my prayer is that it'll be something that can build bridges between people in different jurisdictions and different cultures.

And ultimately beyond bc, I think that this can be something that can lay some foundation for building better relationships.

I could also see it like this is just like an out of left field idea.

But as someone who does content creation work and writing for dmos, I often receive briefs from DMOS before going on a trip that just touches on main points about messaging.

Something I noticed last year on a couple trips were notes about photographing wildlife responsibly, like how to portray the parks, and a list of best practices around this kind of messaging.

And I had actually thought this last year, like, it would be amazing to see notes on how to weave in the indigenous perspective and the indigenous history of the region that you're visiting into your storytelling, depending on what your angle is.

So I don't know, maybe that would like work with tribal parks as well as a little extension, just a brief that goes out to every creator that BC brings out.

Because I haven't worked with bc, but I know people who have and I'm sure that they are giving out briefs like most DMOs are to the people that they work with.

Yeah, that's a cool idea.

I'm curious to hear what kind of feedback you've heard from community members.

Just about like the sort of lived experience of the impact of the program.

This can be colloquia members, but also like the businesses that you're working with.

I know you mentioned that you've had pushback from some businesses who haven't joined yet, but I'm sure there's some positive stories as well.

So I'm curious to hear about the positive benefits and impact that you're seeing and hearing from people so far.

Yeah, it is so positive.

A lot of what I hear is kind of anecdotal experiences of people, but I've heard from folks within the First Nation how, how good it feels to know that a business that they walk past every day is contributing something and is creating a legacy.

Because a lot of people come in Tofino and start a business there and work for a little while, but it is a bit of a hard place to hack it.

And it's a pretty tough climate in the winter.

It's really wet and dark.

And some people come thinking they're gonna stay forever and they don't stick around.

And businesses that are part of the Allies program, they're leaving behind a legacy.

They're contributing to something.

For the folks from the nation who are definitely not going anywhere, you know, like, that's home.

It's pretty beautiful to hear that kind of Feedback.

And it's pretty gratifying to know that it warms people's hearts that way and softens their relationship to the tourism industry, which I know for a lot of folks it's pretty bittersweet relationship.

And last winter we did a customer satisfaction review kind of survey with our allies.

And I got a really cool.

One of my favorite.

My favorite stat that I got out of it was that 72.7% of the responding businesses said that they had materially benefited from participating in this program.

And a lot of the concerns and pushback that we heard in the early days was, oh, this is going to piss off my clients.

I don't want to lose competitiveness with other people offering the same kind of service in the community because it's going to push my price up a little bit.

I have heard time and time again from businesses who participate in this program that they're getting really positive feedback from their guests.

One percent on top of a three $400 a night hotel room is no stress for the people who are able to afford that.

And they're actually pretty excited to know that they're contributing to a one of a kind program that's setting a precedent and hopefully going to contribute meaningful benefits far into the future and beyond okra territory.

So we get those kind of reviews are pretty stunning to hear.

This is actually something that's really good for the community and businesses are really happy to participate.

We've had a few businesses that used to be 1% for the planet, but they decided to drop that and join the Trial Park Allies program because it's 1% for the planet, but it's within Clackboat Sound, right in their own backyard.

And the work that the guardians are doing is really pretty radical stuff.

One of the projects that they're doing is restoring the tranquil river watershed, which was totally trashed by unsustainable logging practices back in the 50s.

They used to just log right up to the edge of the river and drop trees into salmon bearing streams during the spawning season.

And after those trees were gone, all the topsoil washed into the river and filled it with sediment.

And then all the stones that were under the soil rolled down into the river and the river totally changed into a different shape.

It's all very wide and gravelly and there's no habitat for the salmon that do come up to spawn in what salmon do manage to spawn.

And the babies that are born that spend the early time of their lives in the rivers.

In the summertime the water goes down and it recedes below the, below the stones.

And so a lot of these fish end up high and dry and they die.

It's just terrible because salmon's a keystone species and all the whole ecosystem of most of British Columbia really relies on salmon traveling up those rivers.

So they've been doing this crazy work of restoring that river back to its ancestral path.

It's really, really crazy.

Some of the projects that they're doing and it's intergenerational legacy work that's protecting this thriving ecosystem.

You know, one of the most biodiverse places in British Columbia, over 300 species that live there.

It's pretty profound work and people can contribute to that by being a bit more mindful about where they spend their money and by leaving reviews with the businesses they stay at.

Uplifting and praising the allies and, and inviting those who aren't participating in the program yet to get with it.

Thank you so much, Julian.

This has been really awesome.

I'm so glad I've learned about this.

As someone who loves Tofino, I will be making a concerted effort to go only to businesses that are part of Tribal Parks Allies.

Yeah.

And I hope that everyone listening when they go to Tofino because I know a lot of our Canadian listeners love BC as well.

I hope they will as well.

If people would like to learn more about the program or more about you, where can they go for more info?

So my business, I work as a consultant with so my business is called Allied certifications.

AlliedCertifications.com is the website if you want to learn about Oakwood Tribal Parks.

TribalParks.com is their site, TribalParks.com and you can get a hold of me directly through either of those websites.

If you want to chat 12 Kuwait Travel Parks is on Facebook and Instagram.

We've got a lot of really cool content that's been coming out featuring allies and sharing some of the beautiful stories and experiences people have here.

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Curious Tourism is written and hosted by me, Erin Hines and it's produced and edited by Katie Lohr in Canada's Toronto area.

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