Anyway, welcome Jake.

how you doing?

Thanks for joining us.

I knew it was going to

be professional as soon

as Brad said, Hey, do you

want to talk to these guys?

I know them.

So I followed you

for a while on

social media, , but

I thought I'm using

a fair bit of AI

for business at the moment.

I'm like, I'm going to

type in your name and

see what actually comes

up for a bit of fun.

So what it's come up here

is custom home builder

building science advocate,

content creator, speaker

and educator, and the

quirky fun fact, Jake

brings an interesting

background to his

building career.

He actually has an

education in art.

Is this correct?

It is.

I actually have a degree

in fine art, a minor in

architectural design.

A minor in art history

and a minor in ceramics.

I was trying desperately

to be unemployable

you've gone from

essentially painter to

managing painters on site.

You could say that

does that allow you to

manage Steve on site as

well, given you've got some

idea about architecture

Or how to deal with

pompous artists.

or there's also that as.

So Why did you

go down the road?

Building, rather

than architecture.

grew up in the business

I grew up working,

for my parents.

I joined

, Errol building, the

company that I now

own when I was 12,

, I got kicked out

of, Boy Scout summer

camp for smoking

cigarettes when

I was 12 years

old.

And my parents thought

it was going to be

a good punishment to

send me to work with my

dad.

And my

parents didn't realize

that the guys that my dad

worked with were going to

tell me dirty jokes and

let me use power tools.

And at 12 years old,

that's not a punishment.

That's more fun than

going to summer camp.

it was a total backfire on

their part, and so while

I greatly enjoy art, and

I still wish now that I

had more time to

participate in the creation

of art, which I don't I

think what I get to do

for a living is in some

way, the creation of art,

like, we get to build these

really artistic, great

buildings and My art degree

didn't teach me how to

be an artist necessarily.

It didn't help me

become a better builder.

What it did was it

taught me how to

think outside the box.

Like, it taught me how

to look at things from a

different perspective, and

that is like, 90 percent

of what I think makes any

of us good at being a good

builder, is like, problem

solving things quickly

from a perspective that

wasn't the, well, I see

this in one way and only

one way, and therefore

that's the way it has

to be, sort of thing.

Working early with Dad,

I kind of feel like

that's a special thing.

It's probably something

that a lot of people

don't get to do in

work with their father.

Was that something that you

look back on fondly and,

create special memories

for each, with each other?

I didn't at the time.

We had a really hard

time getting along

working together.

Even after I bought the

company, my dad took a

number of years off and

didn't work for

our building.

And then when

I finally came

to the realization

that I needed

help on the standpoint

of, like, managing crew

members and things like

that, I hired him as a

construction manager to

come back and run some

of our onsite operations.

And he worked for me

12 different times over

the course of like five

years.

Like we argued nonstop when

we were working together.

The last time he worked

for me was for like

15 minutes and then

he got mad and quit.

Now I look back

at it that way

though.

okay.

bring up an interesting

point about well, we call

it tertiary education here.

You call it university.

Everyone sitting in this.

Room right now is Penta

University I know for

my side, it certainly

makes you think

outside the square.

Exactly what you said and

think critically as well.

Like, I look at, and

this is no criticism

to anyone who's come

up in that traditional

round of carpenter,

builder, business owner.

I think certainly having a

degree for me has allowed

me to implement a lot

of the things that I see

other builders, I guess,

struggle with a little

bit, particularly around

software and computers and

all that kind of stuff.

You'd be the same,

wouldn't you, Matt?

really good point

because I want to also

add in the, Jake, you

worked at the age of 12.

I worked very, very

early as a checkout chick

at the grocery store.

Brad, I know you've spoken

about working early.

Hamish, did you work

from a young age?

Yeah, I worked from as

soon as I could from 14

and a bit and I was at

Kmart for seven years,

customer service.

also loops back that you've

been taught work ethic

from a young age and you've

been, that's the only way

where I feel the industry

at the moment is young kids

come in and say, I want to

do this now.

I want to be you

Jake right now.

I want to be Matt

Rising and now, but

don't understand point

A to get to point B.

And I feel like that

is a huge issue we

currently face in all

industries as well.

Not just construction.

It really is.

And I think that

specifically where

I grew up, like my

parents generation was

that pull yourself up

by your bootstraps.

It's the saying that

generation, like you can

do whatever you want to do.

As long as you're

willing to put in the

hard work generation was

my parents generation.

And so that, that was all

that I heard growing up.

And that was very

easy for me to

then just go, okay,

well, I'm going to work.

And I bought the business

when I was 23 years old.

And the reason

that I was motivated to

buy the business from

my parents was because

I had a kid and I was

terrified that we were

going to be broke and

not be able to like.

Afford having a kid

and that was it.

It wasn't that I had

some grand plan to be.

Reisinger.

I mean, Reisinger wasn't

Reisinger at the point

at that point in time,

but like I didn't have

any grand plans about

being wildly successful.

I just thought, well, I'll

make more money doing this.

And then if I

work for somebody,

I think it's just the

generation that, You

pick up your phone now,

we can see, this is

how we've connected.

It's actually how I've

met Hamish and Brad too.

And everything

is there.

We're about to move

into a digital age

where generations don't

understand anything else.

And it is the way

that we're going to

be moving forward.

But

it also doesn't show you

behind the scenes of what

it takes to get there.

But I want to go as well

to where you spoke about

you've taken over from dad.

So now you've gone

through this process

of like, I want to

build better.

I want to change.

I'm gonna improve

the industry.

But dad's probably

done something a

certain way forever.

And then you flip it

on him and he's like,

Well, you're a young kid.

You don't know anything.

You've got to work

hard to get there.

How do you go through

that whole conversation?

Literally the entire time

that I was in charge,

he hated everything that

I brought to the table

so I'm sitting in my.

Arrow buildings,

home offices or world

headquarters, if you

will, are actually

above my garage.

And when I built this

house for my family.

My dad was kind of mostly

retired at the time, and

he was kind of coming over

quite often and helping me

in the evenings and kind of

peddling around and being

around and seeing all the

things that I was doing.

And it was a nonstop

argument about, well,

you're wasting your

time doing this.

And I would just say,

like, it's my house.

You don't get to make

any decisions about

how we're doing things.

This is my house.

I want to do it this way.

And after we lived here

for about a year, we were

having a conversation

about whether or not the

house was successful.

And I quoted like how low

our energy bills were and

how little electricity

we're using and how

comfortable the house was.

And I think it was the

very 1st time that he

believed in anything

that we were doing.

All of a sudden,

you're talking about

energy efficiency now.

Like at what point in

your journey, so you

bought the company at

23, you've obviously been

working for your dad 11,

12 years before that,

at what point did you, I

guess, discover this old

building science thing?

I had a conversation

in 2013 with the basic

architect that we work

with nonstop now, in

which Steve very simply

asked me the question.

What's the goal

of a building?

And I had a out and

out panic attack

in front of him.

Like, I didn't know

what the answer

to that should be.

Does anybody want to

take a guess at what the

answer to that should

be?

Just to separate you from

the inside to outside?

Control.

That's, I mean,

you're right.

The separation.

To provide

separation.

And in 2013, I literally

just sat there going, Man,

I thought, like, I knew

everything about my job.

I, I had a panic

attack in front of him.

And like, I barely knew

the guy at the time.

And he was like,

how about control?

How about we're offering

control to our clients?

Like if you can't offer

control, they may as

well live outside.

And I walked away from that

conversation with Steve.

I actually had this

conversation with my

wife in November,

when I got back from

build show live.

Came back from that

meeting with Steve, like,

completely motivated

to change the way

that our company did

absolutely everything.

I looked at the way we

were doing things, and

I was like, we're not

reducing air leakage.

We're not doing all

that we can to manage

water intrusion.

We're really not offering

control more than anyone

else in the market.

We're kind of just coasting

and doing a mediocre

job the way we can.

Everybody else is building

mediocre buildings that are

just meeting code minimums.

And that was a pivotal

moment in my career where

I was like, if I'm going

to say we're going to

offer you control, then I

actually have to understand

what that control means.

And I, we skyrocketed and

changed everything that we

were doing at that moment.

We started looking for

every opportunity to give

an honest promise that

we were going to offer

control to our clients.

So I think the issue is

so many people try to

describe what they're doing

in health and comfort and

passive house and building

better, but I've literally

just had this aha moment

right then that exact

question sums up everything

it's like, like, is

the goal of a building

and just pause, let the

other people talk because

everything you speak about

is it encompasses

everything.

and it really

looped back to the

conversation, when we

started messaging each

other on Instagram

the other day, when

you said you hate the

way we build down here

in Australia, because

I didn't say hate.

I

didn't say

you said fucking hates,

it sucks, it's the worst,

it's the worst building in

ha!

Throw me under the bus!

Jake hates Australian

houses, let's

just put that on

record, we'll put that

as the title of the

podcast.

Jake hates Australian

building, but it goes

back to the point of

like, we live in tents,

the houses we live in

tents, our average

ACH change, like

air change is 15.

4 for a building.

and I've tested existing

buildings that are around

30, 40 air exchanges.

So I want to lead into

that conversation and,

and start with like your

perceptions without us

giving our ideas and what

we think Building Australia

is, what's your perception

of what we do here?

it's fairly skewed, right?

Like, I follow you

guys on Instagram.

So I see what you guys do,

and then I see, How you

guys talk about other

people's buildings, or, you

know, I've been following

Brad for quite some time

now and messaging back

and forth with Brad and

getting to see like.

Okay, the changes and

the back and forth between

what it appears most of the

Building code in Australia

from an outsider's

perspective looks like, it

really doesn't look like

control is the pinnacle

of what's happening.

It looks like the way

that we built buildings

in the 50s or the 40s, the

1940s here in the States.

It looks like things

that were put up post

World War II here in

the United States.

Not to.

Be insulting in any way.

It looks like a very

backwards way of

doing things for a

developed nation.

You're probably not far off

the mark, actually, Jake.

Look, we had Brad on the

episode probably just

after he came back from

the States Even Brad was

saying that there are, I

guess, some states that

are going up in America

and some areas still that.

Lower quality of home.

often say that we

operate in this echo

chamber where we're

seeing all these other

cool builders do really

cool shit.

And every time I

look at the people that

I follow who are building

in the States, you know,

they're putting zipper

on all the external

walls and their pressure

testing everything.

and there's.

You know, just the

attention to detail

is like spot on.

Is that the truth?

are we just sort

of seeing a small

percentage of the market?

No, you're getting, you're

getting the bubble the

same way I get the bubble

of what you guys see.

I actually had a

conversation with

Travis Brungard, a

builder in Kansas City

that I'm friends with.

He runs Catalyst

Construction and

he actually makes

content as well.

He was talking

with John Straub.

John teaches at

Waterloo University in

Canada and John is a

prolific writer and

lecturer when it comes

to building science.

He's 1 of the best

minds out there.

And Travis said, you know,

I, I really think that

we should be focusing

on more advanced content

when we're presenting

publicly beyond just like

water and air control.

And John's like, yeah, but

I run a building failure

investigation company,

and 99 percent of what

we're still dealing with

20 years in is water.

No, the majority of

builders do not have

this figured out yet.

live in an echo chamber,

guys, because this is the

people that you run with,

or the people that you see,

or that you interact with.

Or that we all see

online, we get caught

up in the, I know how to

do it, and we've talked

to each other and we

both know how to do it.

And it does seem like

the world's a better

place, but the majority

of buildings are still

in the U. S. or in your

market, potentially,

built to a code minimum or

built without inspections.

Even here for us, I

build in central Missouri

and in Kansas City,

Missouri, and I build in

municipalities that range

from, you know, A code

that's only 3 years old to

there are no inspections.

So, in the municipalities

where there are no

inspections whatsoever.

I don't have to pay

for even a permit.

Like, I built a house

last year in an area

where I didn't even

have to tell anybody I

was building a house.

we just showed

up and built a

house.

for you that would

be awesome.

If you care, that's amazing

because you know your,

your checks and balances

are from the moment.

If you work with

someone that's awesome

and like a counselor

that really get you

to check everything over,

but someone else doesn't,

it's the same process

for you.

it doesn't matter.

so I think we can

establish Australian

home, suck,

American home suck.

they both suck, but.

I don't think it's builders

that have the problem.

I actually think

it's legislation.

We know the answer.

Why hasn't legislation

then changed to actually

solve the problem

rather than rely on

the builder to upskill?

Because they're

not going to,

I can tell you why it

hasn't changed here

in the United States.

And it's the production

builders that have deep

pockets and don't want

to spend more money.

It's a race to the bottom

mentality here, because

the cheaper they can

sell the home, the more

homes they can sell.

They're working

on a margin basis.

They're worried about

getting out from underneath

the piece of land that

they bought rather than

getting out from underneath

the house that they built.

it's exactly

how it is here.

And look, we do have Brad

sitting in this call too.

So I'm going to bring Brad

in because you and Brad

have actually been chatting

for a number of years now.

And, having a chat with

Brad the other day, I

think he even talked to

you at the point where he

was just so disillusioned

with the industry here

Australia or in Victoria

that I know that when we

first started talking,

Brad, you're about to

just fucking throw it in.

You tell us a little

bit about that.

Yeah, I was

like interested.

I was like, fuck,

I wonder how long

I've known Jake for.

So I like went through it.

It's like 2019.

We first started chat

while I first started

sliding into Jake's DMs

and busting his balls

about what they were doing.

Cause at that time I wasn't

seeing anyone really in

Australia doing anything.

At that time, I was just

in the process of getting

my builder's license to

become a builder because

I was like, I can't keep

working for all these

people that are doing

it so wrong when there's

a better way to do it.

And the only option

I saw at that point

was, oh, well, I just

got to do it myself.

So that's what I did.

is it a better way

or a correct way of

doing it, though?

well, it's both, isn't it?

It is better than

what everyone else is

But is that is that maybe

the issue that better

is always perceived as,

oh, we're doing more,

should we just call

it the correct way?

yeah, but there's like,

probably like, correct.

And then You can

keep going better and

if we go from the bottom,

if we go from the sub, the

most standard house, and

we go, we're doing better,

that just might be, we

put a weather barrier on,

but we didn't tape it,

that's still not great.

So is it better?

Should we just be

saying it's the

correct way to build?

Well, it's like we've

said before, you know,

you got to build houses

that are fit for purpose.

you know what

though, Maddy?

It's just not a sexy

way of marketing it.

If we're just going to

say, Oh, we're going to

build you a good house.

They're like, Oh, I

don't want a good house.

I want to, I want a

high performance home.

Everyone's jumping

on this high

performance home thing.

It's not as

marketable and not

I'm, I'm over that word.

I fucking hate that

word at the moment.

I'm so burnt.

I just over it.

I just really think that

what we're trying

to market, it is

sexy.

It's just not selling

and I think we've got

to go back to why isn't

it selling or why

isn't it going on mass

market?

And Hamish, we both

read that book.

The, what's the book?

It starts with why

we always talk about

the, what we're

doing.

But if we go back, why,

why are we actually doing

this?

Why is it better that

sells the, what doesn't,

we have some clients that

We're about to start 1

of the most expensive

houses we've ever built.

And the clients came to

us and said, you know,

we're not particularly

interested in the

energy efficiency stuff.

Like, we don't need you to

include that kind of stuff.

And I was like,

that's great.

Like, let's sit down and

have a conversation about

that stuff in particular,

and let's walk through

the why we do the things

that we do, and then we

can take out what you guys

don't find to be important.

But I want to make

sure that we're

talking about why.

And you brought up

zip bar earlier.

I said, you know,

the code, even though

it's not enforced in

this municipality.

Dictates that we

have continuous

exterior insulation

and our climate zone.

The reason that we have

it is because we need

to raise the temperature

for the framing.

That way, we reduce our

risk that we have heat

transfer and that we have

condensation in the wall

during cold climate times.

We don't want to run the

risk that we have moisture

condensating in the wall

and we have that and I

went through that and then

I went through, you know,

we're going to buy triple

glazed windows from Europe.

You're close to a highway.

It's going to be quieter.

The windows are going

to be about double the

performance of what we can

buy in the United States.

It's this percentage of

your wall that bump from

R3 to R7 by our U. S.

standards is going to be a

huge difference in western

sun, and it's going to

be something that will be

this much, you know, and I

walked through everything

from a here's each aspect

of what you think of as

energy efficiency, and

this is why we do what

we do, and I didn't sell

any of it as a good,

better, best platform.

Like, this is sufficient.

This is more expensive.

This is more expensive.

I said, like, these

are the reasons why we

do every aspect of it.

And in 40 minutes worth

of sitting there with

the code book and talking

about how comfortable my

house is to live in and

what it costs to operate

my house, and and wrong

behind why we do these

things, the clients walked

away with, okay, yeah,

we'll just do all that.

and they came into

the meeting going, we

don't want any of that.

Don't waste our time.

one really interesting

thing that I've just

realized, Jake, in our

whole conversation, I

think Passive House has

like slid in once or twice

and we haven't really

sort of landed on it.

Your building company,

from my understanding,

is just focusing on

building science, isn't it?

cause Passive

House is big here.

It's a bit of a buzzword.

It's a bit of a

marketing kind of thing.

Is it the same?

Where you are, or are you

just about health, comfort,

you know, energy efficiency

and stuff like that.

It's the same where we

are, but we've never

certified anything.

I Ran the numbers,

actually, Peter Yost that

I do the unbuild it podcast

with ran the numbers, not

I ran the numbers on the

energy bills on my house

and my house qualifies

for Passive House

levels of energy usage.

So, like, had I

went through the

process, I probably could

have gotten a plaque, but

we don't ever really

talk about passive

house with people.

I am down on passive house

in the United States, just

because I think of it as

a kind of a Ponzi scheme.

Almost Steve and I

looked it up recently.

There were more people

certified to be passive

house consultants in 2022

in the United States than

there were passive houses

built.

that would be

the same here,

So, their pyramid scheme

is just to get the money

for certifying people to

be a consultant, rather

than get houses built.

And we want to

build houses.

we're not worried about the

I do just want to point

out, and this is just my

opinion, like we build

passive hazard, we've

got certified buildings,

we market ourselves and

all that kind of stuff.

use it as an

optimization tool.

You know, the running

everything through PHP

and then blow a door

testing, making sure the

installation everything's

installed correctly for us.

That's just a nice recipe

for us to, I guess, prove

to our clients that we're.

building what we're

telling them they're

going to build.

did bring up, you know,

that there's, you know,

lots and lots of certifiers

and designers and even

passive as trades people.

I do agree with you.

I mean, I kind of look at

it like this whole CrossFit

phase, but that sort of is

now sort of phasing out.

It's not a bad

thing, right?

Like if people are getting

amped about getting

fit and healthy and

all that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

It's a little bit of a

gimmick and a little bit

of a sort of a phase,

but is it a bad thing?

I kind of see passive

houses the same as that,

like, I don't think houses

need to be passive houses,

but I think it's a nice

recipe for people to

follow who are just getting

into, you know, high

performance construction.

It's also scalable.

So you can apply this

into commercial properties

or schools or hospitals

where, hey, we build

energy efficient places

is very hard to scale.

But the word passive house

is measurable and scalable.

I think that's where, as

a widest, broader, broader

view of things is where

it really comes into play.

Yeah, I think the problem

with Passive House here

is that there's a lot of

talk around if you don't

build a Passive House, what

you've built is terrible.

And that was a big thing

when I started, you

know, my relationship

with Jake and Steve.

It was like, okay,

you guys are obviously

crushing it and not

doing Passive Houses.

And I was like, well.

I'm just trying to

get into the market

as a builder here.

I'm not getting people

coming to me with these

crazy budgets that can

build a passive house.

But I don't want

to build code.

Where do I fall

in the middle?

What are the things

that I can do?

And that was a big

bit of kickback I

got, especially when I

did my parents house.

So many people were

like, Oh, but it's

not a passive house.

And if you do it this way,

you know, like, obviously

I followed a lot of.

similar sort of details

that Jake uses, albeit

with, you know, whatever

different random

materials I could

get my hands on here.

But yeah, people were

coming at me like, oh,

you know, it's not a

passive house, but I

was like, well, here's

the Proof in the U.

S. here that, you know, you

can do these things and the

house can still be awesome.

Hey, Brad, I know

you, talked about your

parents place before.

It's not a passive house.

But your parents had lived

in experience in them.

And from what I

understand, it's baller.

Like it's such a nice

place to live in.

yeah, totally.

But like Jake's house

is probably baller to

live in and that's not

a passive house either.

But that's what I'm saying.

Like, the language in

Australia, people sort

of think that that

middle ground between a

code built house and a

passive house, or maybe

not even middle ground,

you're probably very

close to a passive house.

Or in Jake's case, if

he went through the

certification, would

be a passive house.

it is still an awesome

house and that's what

people sort of probably

need to realise here.

Bec, do you guys

do modeling in

pre construction?

Like thermal modeling

in pre construction?

We don't just because

most of the time we end up

working with architecture

firms that aren't

particularly fitted for it.

Or when we work

with Steve's firm

he doesn't do it.

We do have I mean,

Peter will do it

if we ask him to.

We just never have Steve

and I like to joke that

we do the modeling that

we do is at full scale

But It gets pretty cold

where you are too, so you

have to design for that

regardless and the climates

in America vastly different

depending where you are,

but if you know it's going

to be snowing, you've

got to prepare for that.

And then what you do

on that end is also

going to come back to.

When it gets a, little

bit hotter, but I think

when we go back to snow

as well, it also goes back

to water because the snow

melts and that is way more

important than the energy

efficiency of the home.

Yeah, actually got a

really good 1 for you.

I have a, an architect in

our Kansas City market that

we work with from time to

time called me recently.

We had about.

10 inches of snow that we

don't really get standing

snow in our market.

If we get snow, sometimes

it sticks around for a

few days, but it's very

rare that we get like 10

inches and it

stays for 2 weeks.

So that's rare occurrence.

Every few

years.

He said, Hey, I have, I

gave your phone number

to some clients that built

a house with me last year.

They're having an issue.

I told them to call

you because you could

probably tell them

what's going on.

And I was like, okay,

and the guy calls and

he says we finished

our house in June.

There's water pouring

out of this office and

there's ice hanging

out of this office.

And our builder told

us, yeah, that happens

and we don't think that

that's appropriate.

And I said, well,

first of all, it's not

supposed to happen.

That is absolutely

a building failure

of some sort.

Talk to me a little

bit about the house.

And the first thing

they said was, well,

we were going to have

this guy build it, but

they were too expensive.

And I'm good friends with

the guy that they were

going to have build it.

And I know.

That guy and that

architect would have

been done correctly.

And they're like, so we

hired this guy from like

two and a half hours away

because he was 200, 000

cheaper than, than the

builder that, and I was

like, okay, so they cut

a bunch of stuff out.

And I said, let me guess

the builder you hired is

over 55 or 60 years of age.

And had bad things to say

about the design that the

architect gave you when

he saw it the first time.

And said, we're not going

to do this and we're not

going to do that when he

looked at the plans the

1st time and he was like,

how do you know this?

And I said, because the

architect that you worked

with drew it correctly.

Because I've seen his plans

enough times to know that.

He would have had an

air control layer at the

ceiling, and what you

have is hot air leaking

from your ceiling into

the attic, and you have

enough insulation in the

form of snow on the top

side of your sheathing

that that air is condensing

on the bottom side of the

sheathing and running down

the Inside of the roof,

and then getting to the

Eve, and then dripping out

and refreezing and your

builder didn't want to do

that because he doesn't

think it's appropriate.

And for him to think

that that means he's

old enough that he

thinks he knows better.

And he was like, you

nailed all that right

on the head right

It's almost it's the

same recipe essentially

of passive house.

If you follow these

principles, you're

going to get this.

If you follow this,

you're going to get that.

When the client makes a

comment, it's like, oh,

is that meant to happen?

Well, it kind of is meant

to happen because that's

the way it's been built.

Like, at the

end of the day,

that's the reality.

That's what

it's been designed to do.

it probably happens on

all of this guy's houses.

So it's just

like, whatever.

So it's totally normal.

there's one podcast, I

literally remember where

I was when I was listening

to it, when you, Peter

and Steve, were talking

about the pre construction,

being involved and

being involved.

And you guys were

talking about that

exact comment of

practically being able to

pick a nail on the head.

These exact circumstances

of like If this person,

this person being

cheaper, this is a

reason they're cheaper.

I, I think it's about

becoming a huge issue where

we are in Australia and

I've kind of flagged this

with Hamish and Brad is

that all of a sudden, a lot

of builders are starting

to understand like, hey,

we can get involved in the

pre construction side of

early, but there's being

involved in being involved.

you don't know what

you don't know as well

and and having a little

bit of information is

almost the most dangerous

part of construction.

I just want to circle

it back to Passive House

again, just in case

Alexi is listening and

she gets angry at us.

if you are a new builder

and you've done the trades

person course, and you

understand the principles

of passive house by

principles, I actually

think it allows you to then

look at a set of drawings

and say, Oh, you know what?

I think that junction

there is going to leak

air or, you know, you've

got your window sitting

outside of the frame here.

I think we need to push

that back in a little bit.

I think some education,

Matt is a good thing.

So I think that's

where passive house

has been a good thing.

To kind of, educate

people enough to make

better buildings.

I think like you've got to

start somewhere because at

the end of the day, it's

the same as the States.

I'm assuming we can go

down to the local store

and pick up two nail guns

and boom, boom, boom on the

carpenter or my builder.

And that's usually

where it stops.

There's that next section

of education is like.

how do we go from it's

supposed to happen this

way, because that's what I,

all I know to maybe I need

to learn more and maybe I

need to upskill and have

continual professional

development which probably

leads exactly where I

wanted to sort of go is the

build show with you, Jake,

that it's, it's probably

had a huge impact on the

way that you've built the

way you design or you get

involved in the design and

how has it made you better?

Because it's.

You potentially could

have just stayed on that

little path, but I'm

assuming it's really

helped you understand

more about building

better than just doing

a Passive House course.

Yeah, well,

so before that, I will say

I'm not anti passive house.

Sometimes it comes

across that way.

I have a tendency to

come across that way.

because the majority

of the folks that I run

into in the United States

that are passive house

tend to be borderline

religious zealots.

And they think if you

don't build passive house

that you're, in a hole

and that you shouldn't be

building houses instead

of thinking there is

possibly another way.

Like Brad was saying that

like his parents house or

my house is perfectly fine

and it's not passive house.

So before we go off of

passive house, I think

passive house is a great

thing and I think that

more should happen,

build show aspect or,

or Instagram, or, you

know, we have a YouTube

channel or the podcast,

they all fall under the

second you have to explain

it to somebody else.

you have to understand

it better than

if you're just trying

to do it yourself.

And that comes with just

being a business owner

or a foreman on the site.

Like, if I'm

trying to explain

it to our youngest

carpenter, I have to

think about it in a way

that's different than if I

were just going to nail the

two boards together.

I have to go, okay,

well, I'm going to nail

these two studs together.

That's different than

if I'm going to say,

we're going to nail

these two studs together.

And you have to put

your finger here to make

sure that they're flush.

And we have to crown these

two boards so that the,

the two boards that are

next to each other both,

like, I have to explain

it in a much more advanced

way if I'm going to put it

on camera or if I'm going

to explain it to somebody

else, and I know that

there's an opportunity for

somebody to take two thumbs

and go, you're an idiot.

You don't know what

you're talking about.

I have to make sure that I

know fully what I'm talking

about so that I can defend

what I'm putting out there.

So on that, Trolls, have

you gone with people just

like, That's crap, you

don't need to do it that

way, that's bullshit.

Do you bite back or

do you just leave it?

Because I love biting back.

I do both on kind of

a measured approach.

Number one.

I have like the

thickest skin of

anybody you're probably

ever going to meet.

There is nothing that

you're going to say

that can affect me.

You have to be like

my closest friend or

my wife to hurt my

feelings in any way.

I really don't

care what anybody

thinks about me in any

way, shape or form.

I think that's

part of why it's

easy for me to put

online content out there.

Cause really

don't care if you

don't like me.

it?

also is great for my

sense of humor because

if you know me well, you

know that if I'm laughing

at my joke, that's

kind of the only thing

that's important to me.

Like, if the joke is

funny to me, I'm fine

with nobody else finding

it funny, like, that's

how my brain works.

As long as I thought it was

funny, I'm okay with that.

So I'm very, like, narrow

focused in that sense.

So the trolls don't

really bother me.

If they're making a

comment that is, where

you're doing it wrong,

you should be doing it

this way, I will try to be

like, you can, but you're

not thinking about this.

But if they're just

making a, you're an idiot.

I generally just ignore it.

Or do you then just

send the post to Steve

and let him take over?

Steve is one of

my favorites.

I love when like, a

YouTube video posts or

an Instagram posts and.

either they're going after

me or they're going after

Steve because we work

together so often I will

see it be entertained by

it and then I'll send Steve

a message that says, like,

hey, did you see this?

Because Steve will sit

for an hour and just

bite back at people.

Somebody commented the

other day about, like, you

shouldn't be using zip.

It's, it's a garbage

cracker material

for your houses.

And I could break through

it in 2 seconds with

a hammer or something.

And Steve's response was.

I would love to have an

intelligent conversation

about this, but I fear

it would be one sided.

And I was just like, I

love sending it to Steve

so that he can be the one

to be an asshole about It

It's almost like imagine,

imagine being, imagine

being like, I've written

this, my favorite.

I just go back,

imagine being like

crap at your job that.

you think you're good.

Because that's the reality.

I had somebody the other

day, tell me that we were

installing windows wrong.

And I was like, okay,

well, just so we're

clear the window

installation in this video

follows the window

manufacturers

installations.

Guide as provided

to us to the

T and they were

like, no, it doesn't.

And I was like, there

was a point where you

lose credibility for

just saying, no, it

doesn't when I have

manufacturers install

instructions on my side

here.

And they were like, can

you provide them to me?

And I just responded

with, have a nice day.

Like, I'm not going

to spend my time

trying to convince

you that I'm right.

If you clearly aren't

going to be convincible,

go and look them up.

If you don't believe me,

I'm not going to trace down

the install instructions

for a European window

manufacturer from five

years ago on a video.

then it probably

changed somewhat with

because they've, they've

improved on their system

and what you've done

is already good enough.

They've just improved

a little bit because I

always say to my team,

and the be the worst

building we should have

built is the one we just

finished, because the

next one should be better.

We should always

be trying to just that

little, little bit that

you're gonna go, oh,

we did this, this way.

Maybe we should do

it this way a little

bit better next time.

You've spoken a

lot about Steve.

Is he a really good

architect or are

you actually just

get along very well

it's both actually Eric

Ghani from Mechanical Hub,

who also does content on

the build show actually is

staying at my house today.

He stayed here last

night and spend the

night again tonight.

We're filming

content all today.

And he said the same

thing about, you know,

do you ever get tired

of, like, having to do new

stuff on the buildings?

And I said, Steve

and I have the same

idea about how we

build with the,

if we do this one

the same way we did the

last one, we weren't

paying attention.

We didn't learn from it.

And that, like, that

mentality that we have

and the way that we work

together works really

well, because we can have

a 5 minute conversation

that would take me and

another architect hours

upon hours where I can go.

I want to do

the foundation.

Like, we did it

Gregory, but I want to

up the installation.

Like, we did it.

And I want to go ahead

and do the windows.

Like, we did it McCoy,

but I want to pull them

in a little bit so that

the trim will lay like it

did at the Hilltop house.

Like, those 4 sentences

are 2 hours worth of

details that we've

worked out and it was,

sweet.

Done.

yeah, and he can copy and

paste stuff that we've

spent a decade working out.

And like, we'll give him

a detail and we'll mark

something up and he'll

send it back to us and

then on the next set

of plans, we'll get it.

And there's something

that's ever so

slightly different.

And I'm like, why

is it like this?

And he's like, oh, well,

I was working with how

construction in Boston

and their guy, okay.

Does this and I think

it actually saves a

couple dollars per

window to do it this way.

And I'm like, that's great.

Like, we're fine

with that because he

listens to everybody.

And that's 1 of the

things that makes him a

great architect because

he doesn't think that

he's smarter than anybody

else in the room, even

though he has a tendency

to be smarter than most

everybody else in the room.

my only introduction

to Steve is through

the Unbuilder podcast.

And he's the

bloody smart guy.

it actually makes me

feel really happy to

know that you guys have

that relationship and

that Steve is that really

great collaborative

kind of guy that you've

just explained us.

And I think if only

there was more builder

architects relationships

like that, cause.

Generally here, it's like,

no, I'm doing it this way

because I'm the architect.

Well, we're also

putting that together

on site, and we think

it's better this way.

Now, I think me, Brad,

and and Matt are fortunate

that we've got some

really great relationship

designers and architects,

but I think generally it's

the architect's way and

the builder just comes

up and puts it together

and then deals with the

fallout at the other end.

So it's great that you guys

have that relationship and

it's forever progressing.

but it goes back to our

most recent podcast where

we spoke about essentially

do builders know, know

more than architects.

I think from a practical

point of view and like

how things go together on

site, definitely builders

know more than architects.

But Steve's also built that

same relationship that he's

got with Jake, with a stack

of other builders, and

they're all collaborating.

It's not just the Jake

and Steve show, and all

Steve's drawings are

everything that Jake's

worked on with Steve.

It's like, okay, yeah,

here's how You know, he

might work with Travis,

Matt, all the other

builders, and it's like

continuously evolving and

we probably don't have much

of that yet in Australia.

You know, each of us has

a designer that we've

worked with for a few

years, not a decade.

And it's, you know,

they've got that strong

relationship with

one builder, not that

strong relationship with

5, builders across the

whole country that's really

allowed that evolution,

whereas Steve has that.

It's difficult sometimes

for us to work with

other architects.

We love working with

other architects and

we like for our house

to be our homes to be

architecturally driven.

Like, we

want beautiful

buildings as well as

durable and efficient.

We think that

that's 1 of the

things that we get that

sets us apart from a lot

of other builders because

they get stamped set of

plans that come off of

the Internet or whatever.

But it's it's tough.

We have a firm that

we're working with on 2

houses and a renovation

project right now.

And I'm in on the precon.

I brought the clients to

that architect because

they're the right firm

for this architect.

And I'm sitting on the

sidelines waiting for

a set of plans because

the architect doesn't

want us to have input.

And it's very challenging

for me to not be like,

Hey, I need to see

these before you go any

further, even though

they're just in design

development right now.

And for me to not be like,

to me before you screw

it up.

How do you approach

that conversation?

the majority of architects

that I've worked with

over the years are a

little more sensitive to.

Builders trying to

insert themselves in

the design process.

then say Steve is so it's a

very difficult thing to not

just be like, hey, I need

to be included and then

not take it as you trying

to step on their toes with

this particular architect.

We're, slowly getting to

the point where they're

realizing that we're

bringing something to the

table that other builders

don't and they've

actually called a couple

of times on jobs that

were not involved with.

They actually called the

other day for 1 that we

lost and he said, hey.

Do you mind me asking

you a question on this

other project that

you guys aren't doing?

And I was like,

yeah, go right ahead.

Because the more times

that they call and

ask me questions, the

more I'm going to be a

professional in their

eyes and a resource.

And the more of a

resource I can be for

that architect, the

more likely we'll have

a better collaboration

But they obviously

already know who you are

and the value you bring

through the build show.

Isn't that for them

automatically assumed?

That you already know

what you're talking about?

Wouldn't that be

my way of thinking?

I think you're

back to the bubble.

I'm not sure if this

architect watches.

Any of our online

content, they just know

us from working locally.

So, like, they know that

I make that content.

They know that we have

somewhat of a voice, but

that doesn't necessarily

translate to their

spectrum of respect.

say to any builder out

there though who is

having that trouble,

don't go in there and

try to change the design.

Talk about

structure, price.

That's what

you're there for.

We're not there to

design the house.

Maybe there's some

input you can have about

overhanging eaves or The

way the windows might look

because of the way they've

got to be installed, but

it's, it's the conversation

to bring what you're good

at, which is building, let

them do the architecture,

which they're amazing at,

and bring it together.

I'm going to tell a

really beautiful story

about an architect and

build a relationship.

So yesterday we're

working through the

owner of the architect's

firm, we're building

his house, his first

kind of foray into high

performance construction.

And we sat in like a

zoom call yesterday with

my pre con manager and

myself and all of them.

And what I loved about

the conversation is

that every single one of

the architects and the

project architects and