Can you leverage the power of outsourcing to enhance your productivity,

increase your architecture firms capacity.

And improve your bottom line.

I'm joined by Aja Schlachter to help you get started outsourcing in this

episode of architecture business club, the weekly podcast for solo and small

firm architecture practice owners, just like you who want to build a

profitable future proof architecture business that fits around their life.

I'm the host John Clayton.

And if you want a business in architecture that gives you more freedom, flexibility,

and fulfillment, then go to architecture, business club.com forward slash blueprint.

And download the architecture business blueprint.

It's the step by step formula to freedom for architects, architecture,

technology, sun, architectural designers.

And it's absolutely free as a gift from me.

Now let's discuss outsourcing.

Aya Schlachter is CEO and founder of MGS Global Group, a company that

accelerates growth for architecture and design firms worldwide by

providing architectural support and staffing services internationally.

Her team provide Revit, ArchiCAD, AutoCAD, and 3D visualization services

to architects and interior designers.

IA is a keynote speaker and host of

the Architect My

Business Podcast,

a business

growth podcast for architects.

She's also a wife and mother of two, an avid traveler, golfer

and a recreational triathlete

who lives

cooking and spending time outdoors.

You can

connect

and learn

more with ia@mgsglobalgroup.com.

ia, welcome

to Architecture Business Club.

Thank you for having me, John.

I'm really excited about our conversation today.

Oh, me too.

It's an absolute pleasure to to

have you here.

We've got

a really

interesting topic to talk about today, but before we dig into that I know that

you've, you've recently got into doing cold plunging, like cold water immersion.

Can you tell me a little bit about that?

I'm fascinated by that.

Well, I'm from the Philippines.

It's really hot there.

And I

moved

here.

It's really, really cold.

I'm in Cleveland, Ohio.

And instead of complaining about the cold, I've decided to just

love it because I have no choice.

So when I see snow, I enjoy it.

And my, my friend had asked me to join a club.

It is really amazing because.

Cold plunge has a lot of benefits.

It really helps with like stress, anxiety, sleep, inflammation, but it's

just a fun thing

to do when you all go

as a

group and you have like your shovels and like those ice picks that they carve.

So it's just

a great,

you know, I like to do exciting things and things

that will challenge

me.

And cold plunging is one of

those things

where.

You just kind of absorb the cold and the pain, but the benefits are amazing.

I sleep better at night.

I'm more focused, you know, inflammation is down.

If you have like aches and pains, it's just really good for your body.

Anyone, if anyone can try it, let me know.

I want to hear your opinions on cold plunging, but.

That sounds amazing.

And actually the fact that, I mean, we're not just talking about

doing this in like an ice bath.

You're actually, you've done this outdoors.

yes, there's a, there's a polar bear club here in Cleveland,

and we go every Sunday, every Sunday, and our group leader, Josh, make

sure that we're, you know, he watches everyone, checks the temperature.

Obviously, we can't cold plunge if it's icy, but at 33 degrees or 32

degrees, that's the water still.

Water is still liquid.

So we can do that.

I started like my first plunge was like 15 seconds and I can build up to 10 minutes.

10 minutes.

No

But that yeah.

So it's, it's fine with the group.

It's really because they support you, right?

It's you'll be surprised about stress and and.

like pain, that breathing can really help you out.

So cold plunge is the same.

When you're stressed, when you have anxiety, when it's super cold,

just breathe deeply and you can

manage.

That's what I've learned.

Let's just, just caveat this with a health

and safety warning and say to

the listeners, like,

don't, don't just go off and try this on your own, definitely

Oh, definitely not.

Like, you know, no responsibility is taken for any listeners

that decides to cold plunge unsupervised.

Yeah, absolutely.

You have to go with a group and check with your doctor first.

So

Good advice.

a waiver to join the group by the way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Brilliant.

Well, look.

John.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So we're going to talk about outsourcing so

that

architects and

architecture firm

owners who have, who have never done it before can, can get started.

So I think probably the best place to start is by starting with the basics.

So

why

should architects

consider

outsourcing?

some of their work and, and what are some of the, the key

benefits that they can expect?

So one of the things that this is overall, one of the hindrances

to growth is not having enough staff.

So every architect is afraid first to hire their first staff, right?

Because they don't know they can't afford it.

But the second hindrance to growth is It's pipeline, right?

People are like, I don't have enough pipeline to hire people, but the

third hindrance to growth is, and this is why we're so busy in MGS is

because now you have a pipeline, what happens when you don't have staff?

And I see this a lot in a lot of the chat groups at the Facebook groups.

Oh, I have a wait list of six months, right?

Like I'm so busy.

I have a wait list of six months.

You can't have a wait list of six months because you don't know when the economy

is gonna crash, collapse or whatever.

Right?

So the benefits of outsourcing really is like you really have to

outsource to plan for your business because first of all, finding talent.

I'm in the United States.

It's really hard.

But when you outsource, you have access to a wider talent pool, and it gives you

the flexibility to to scale up and down.

On an as need basis, right?

So that's, that's, that's the thing.

Outsourcing can really help you be flexible about your, your

work and your pipeline and your team and planning and finance.

I love that.

That's that in itself is, is a huge benefit.

The, the amount of flexibility that you have by building an

outsourced team, definitely.

But outsourcing, it does come with,

I

think a lot of preconceived ideas about it and a

lot

of myths and.

misconception.

So can you help debunk some of those myths about outsourcing?

So, the first thing is the cultural and communication challenges.

We're located in the Philippines.

We have, like, over 50 drafters there.

They're all architects.

People ask, can they speak English?

Are they good at, you know, communicating?

The answer is yes.

Our medium of instruction is Spanish.

English in the

Philippines.

And I

think all over the world, English is really You know, the a lot of people

speak English, so that's the first thing.

Can they communicate?

The second is, you know, are they familiar with local codes, right?

You know, we live in a global world.

I mean, we're very, we have, we have access to information right now.

So, You know, with chat, GPT, online resources, a lot of YouTube.

It's not a problem to learn as long as you want to learn.

So, you know, you get out of school, any architect out of school, whether you're

in the Philippines, India, China, or the US, you're starting from ground zero

in terms of real actual work knowledge.

So everything can be learned as long as you're

open

with the

technology right

now.

One thing I also get is, Oh, are you treating your employees?

Well, is it a sweatshop?

You know, that's that's common, right?

And, and yes, we are treating our employees.

Well, as a matter of fact, local economies in developing countries have upgraded

their lifestyles because of outsourcing.

So

it's more of a equitable.

Workplace.

So now, you know, you'll see a lot of Filipinos traveling to to Hong Kong or,

you know, people who couldn't afford to travel before because they didn't have

access to money or jobs now have jobs.

So it's actually pretty cool that we know we treat our employees really well.

They have a really fancy office.

They work in a nice office.

I'm still working on basement.

So.

That's, that's the, that's the question people ask.

And then the last is project coordination.

Like, how do we communicate?

Again, like, you know, with online people can work the night shift or the day shift.

So if you have, if you want to work at the same time, time

zones, you can arrange that.

So yeah, those are the four things I think that people wonder.

The communications and not access to information and like, The working

conditions and, and project coordination.

I love that.

I thought that

there's an interesting point there

that

you began with about the communication thing,

because I

think that is something that probably holds some people back

worrying about if they do use an

overseas

outsourcing partner, about how well they will

be

able to Communicate Communicate with each other.

So that's something really key.

And actually, the thing you mentioned there about

sometimes

people might feel like Is this something

exploitative

that I'm doing?

Like, am I doing something really bad by like outsourcing outside of my country?

And, and am I, are they getting paid enough?

You know, but I think that you can, you can leverage the currency

difference by using overseas partners and you can actually pay them

a

the equivalent, if not better than what they would be earning by a local

employer and still save money on what it would cost you to outsource it

within your own country, depending on.

Where you're based.

So there's definitely some huge benefits to exploring this.

Isn't that

Yeah.

Plus it's also, you know, you know, for, for architects, since our

rates are much lower than the U.

S.

rates, you can actually add that into your, your proposals.

So, your profit margins are high, you know, the drafting process is

maybe

like 80, maybe 80, maybe 60 percent from SDS to DDS.

That's a huge chunk of your, your fee that if you send it to an

outsourcing

provider or partner.

You can actually get, have more profits because the costs are lower.

yeah, that that makes total sense.

Doesn't it?

Actually, that other point as well that you you made about, um, local

codes and understanding the regulations in different countries that like as

architects and architectural designers that, you know, we have so much

information that like you have to know about and learn for any given project, but

not

all of that is retained in our heads.

Like often it's knowing It's just knowing where to find that information.

So if you think about your outsourcing partner in that

way, that they might not know

everything

already about your local code, but as long as they've got the right skills and

ability to go and find that information

and

to use it, then it's all good.

It would just be the same as working alongside a staff member

in your office that needed to double check some local codes.

absolutely.

It's also like hiring a new employee, right?

You're onboarding a new staff.

Let's say the staff is from from New York and that person

moves to California, right?

The principal of the firm will have to walk her or him through

the code because maybe that person knows only New York City code.

So yeah, it's, it's, it's just like having a team member join a

new firm in a different country.

you still need, or a different state.

So you still need to train them and keep them up to speed.

So it's important to choose the right outsourcing partner.

How can architects and architectural firm owners go about

finding and

selecting the right outsourcing partner?

I really think referral is the best and getting people who've

done it before pros and cons, right?

It might not be for everyone.

It depends on

the firm owner

as well.

Like some, a lot of.

Some firm owners don't want to give up that control.

So they'll probably have a hard time finding the right partner, but really

referral is the most important thing.

And the second is review their online presence.

Make sure that, you know, they're legitimate.

They have like, you know, testimonials on their website.

They have good partners and clients.

You know, I always look at the blogs, you know, For me, I'm a content

creator, so I want to make sure when I look at a company, whether

it's mine

or another outsourcing

partner, that they're going

to expos,

they're going

to events, they're going to like expose that you're at, you know,

you're attending like the, the, um, product expo or whatever it is,

they have to stay on top of things.

Blogs are really important and content like you need when I look for a partner

or any partner or any staff member,

I

always check their online profile.

So that's really important.

And then I always review the, their leadership, like who

is behind the outsourcing, who's, who's the owner behind?

Are they an architect?

Are they an entrepreneur?

Who is on their team?

A lot of the times outsourcing companies, because I I look at my competition.

they don't,

Show the face behind who's the principal, who's the owner.

So that's important.

You need to get to know the people you're working with, like a resume.

I totally agree.

I think one thing that really stands out about MGS Global.

It's you, you know, you have a great personal brand and you're very present

and you, all those things you said about attending events and being visible,

we can very easily see when we start researching outsourcing companies, like

somebody like yourself or the principal of another outsourcing company that's

got a

similar presence, like

It

helps to build trust with that, with that

company.

Definitely.

Okay.

So when it comes to actually kind of starting with this

outsourcing relationship,

what,

what, are the, some of the best practices we're getting started?

Why is it

beneficial?

Do you think to start with perhaps smaller projects?

And what do you think architects

should be looking

out for with those initial few projects that they, they do

with their outsourcing partner?

Remember.

Don't forget to download the architecture business, blueprint the

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and architecture designers.

You can grab the blueprint without any charge@architecturebusinessclub.com

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Now, back to the show.

So, so

the good

thing about working slowly is, you know, if you hire a full time employee, you're

kind of stuck with that employee, right?

Like.

It's hard for you to, you know, change your mind with working

with an outsourcing partner.

You can, you know, like start, start with a small project, right?

You can see if it's a good fit, if the person or if your architecture resource

in our team, we have all the, in our company, we have different teams,

architecture, I mean, hospitality, retail, and there are different project managers.

So you want to make sure you're, you, you.

You're a good fit for the resource you're assigned to.

So that's why it's good to test a small project.

And also like, we're very flexible in our company.

We do like, you know, if you just kind of, if you can

afford,

you know, just an upper project basis, you don't need to do a contract model.

We have two models, per project and contract.

The contract is you sign for a year and you're locked in, right?

So we really want to give architects the flexibility

because Business is hard, right?

We don't want to seal, you know, like keep you with a contract for a year.

Even our contract model, John, you can, I

think we

just have 30 day notice if you want to terminate the contract, if you don't

have any more projects coming in.

But that's the thing, like you, we want to be very, we want other

people to work very easily with us.

And not have a lot of terms and conditions.

And if you have a budget, we'll stick to the budget as well.

Right.

So the profession is difficult on its own.

We're trying to make it easy for our partners to work with us.

I love that

because

as you say Most small firm architects are so busy already

firefighting everything day to day.

So to be able to have an extension of their team that has that

flexibility in it, then I think that's

it's

potentially a game changer

for a lot of

small practices.

When it

comes to actually working together, though, I'd Imagine

a lot of architects will worry a little bit about losing control of

those projects that they outsource.

And I was wondering about how outsourcing partners can be better integrated into

existing teams so that there's some nice integration working together rather

than it being a very separate entity.

Do you, do you have any thoughts on how we can go about that so that

the outsourcing partners better integrated with the existing practice.

Okay.

So I have 2 case studies.

I'm going to share 1 case study.

Is this 1 partner who only wanted

like,

Okay.

One person, he didn't have a team, his website only had like one person.

So it actually looked good for him to have people

on

our team integrate in their website, right?

That you, you look like you have a bigger team or interact

with clients.

So that's, that's a plus, right?

Because a lot of firm owners, they, they feel bad.

They don't have like, they have big projects, but they

don't have full time employees.

So it's really good to integrate.

And you'll be surprised the relationship between my team members.

And our clients that are architects,

it's amazing.

Like they talk

constantly.

They,

you know, they talk like, you know, they make small talk.

They know each other's birthdays.

So it's real, it's

kind of

like really part of your team.

And depending on, on the setup, if you want them to

work

us hours, we can also do that.

In our company, we do.

We always do training for the, the office standards.

So that's part of our onboarding

process.

We have at least 3 to 6 weeks of training, depending on how complex the jobs are,

right?

So, so 1, 1, small firm owner has 2 employees under their team

And

they have a great relationship.

I have another bigger client who started with five employees and

now have grown to 15 employees.

Wow.

Right.

And every year they send, you know, swag, like all the hat

caps and the mugs because they're

part

of that team.

So if you go to our headquarters in the Philippines, there's a section with

our client team they have all the swag.

So they're really, in essence, part of the U.

S.

company, the culture, they have meetings.

So, It's really, I really like that they belong to

that

company and also have access to our company culture.

I don't know if you follow us on social, but we have a lot of like

karaoke, beach outings, all the things.

Cause you know, we want to have fun in the, in, in, in, in the

Philippines, like all, all, you

know,

on the weekends, we like to go to the beach, you know, outings and things.

So they have best of both.

I love that.

It really is this idea that, well, a mindset change of, of

looking

at this as an

extension

of your team.

So it's not just

looking at

it like, it's like us

and

them.

This

is like

a totally separate entity is about trying to

find, A

partner to work with that, you know, Maybe you might even try working

with a couple of different companies.

You might not find the right partner first, but when you do, when there's

some synergy and you can really integrate each with each other's teams

and look at it, like they're just an extension of your, your existing team.

I think that's amazing.

The fact

that you've

got

people there that you mentioned the architect, where they, you know,

they've, they've integrated your team team members because they're like,

well, actually they're my team members.

I'm going to have them on my website too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so may

I

add also, it depends too on the firm owner.

I have people who are not

open to it, but

they really just love their, their employee.

I have people just really love their employees so much.

One of my clients came to the Philippines and spent six weeks

to train

the new

batch.

Do you know what I'm saying?

So it really depends on on the company culture of the firm owner.

So we're open to that as well.

But our culture is very open.

We have open door policy.

People have autonomy over their work.

So it works, right?

I enjoy what I do.

Absolutely.

So, I mean, what's coming across

here

is that outsourcing isn't just about delegating tasks.

It can actually be a whole strategic move for your business and

how you

grow your team.

So, how, how can architects think strategically?

About outsourcing to, to maximize the potential to, to grow their

practice and be more efficient.

So strategically, architects should think out as outsourcing

as part of your team, but with the flexibility and less cost, right?

You can grow your team to match your pipeline.

And this is why our clients come to us.

They're like, I, we have a pipeline

of like,

we have 10 multifamily units

in

the next.

three years.

Can you match our pipeline, please?

Because they can't

hire fast

enough here in the U.

S.

Right.

We

support their project managers.

Now they can sleep at night knowing that their projects

can, can be delivered on time.

So really, you can grow your team to match your pipeline.

And that's a strategic decision because you don't want a wait list

of six months

and then

the

residential market might collapse or not.

Right.

And as a business owner, it's your responsibility to make

sure you have a pipeline, especially if you have architects.

I mean, if you have, um, staff second, it's really flexible,

you know, you know, MGS has.

Over 15 years of experience in the business.

So at any given time, we have a culture of collaboration.

So at any given time, whether you have residential architects,

multifamily architects, hospitality, place of worship, hospitals,

if

you have a project, if you have, if you're an architect who now got

a job in hospitality or in church building, we have the resources.

And the know how to support you because we've done a diverse

type of project, a project types.

So again, think strategically, right?

If you want to start pivoting to other industries, you need to find

partners who know that type of work.

So it's strategic, um, flexible hiring for multi skills and multi

disciplines.

So you need to, and also when

you find

an outsourcing partner, make sure they know different types of construction

methods in different regions.

And the

last one, it's really low risk for entrepreneurs and startups, right?

It's low risk.

You're not paying an employee, you're not paying for their insurance yet, or any of

the benefits we take care of all of that.

So,

I

think it's a win win for everyone if you're open to it.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's important.

That final point as well about, um, startups and smaller, smaller practices.

It is a very low risk way.

To leverage your time and to, increase the number of projects that you could, you

can get through in a year without having to make an expensive hire and, um, yeah,

you've just got that flexibility built in.

It's

been a

really good discussion.

I think this is, well, I've really enjoyed it.

I think it's going to be really valuable for the listeners.

What would be the main thing that you'd like everyone to

take away from the conversation?

So this is more like my philosophy in business and life and

in business in particular, success is decisions away, not years away, right?

So, so.

I think every opera, every entrepreneur should be really open

to it.

To

the opportunities and possibilities and get out of their own way

and really try to look at things differently with a I technology.

Everything is moving at a fast pace.

So you should always be open to things and not be close minded.

If outsourcing is the thing to do right now to stay ahead, do it.

If it's if it's a I chat GPT getting the right tools, you need to

do

it.

Right.

Because everything is moving so fast.

So just be open.

And like I said, you know, success is only

decisions

away, not years away.

So you need to, you know, have

a good

mindset and be open to what's going on in the world.

That's brilliant.

I love that quote.

Success

is just decisions away, not years away.

That's brilliant.

Definitely going to be using that in the, uh, the promotion for this episode.

Was there anything

That's not from me.

That's from my mentor, by the way.

It's fine.

We'll, we'll pretend it was yours.

We won't, we won't tell anybody.

It's fine.

Was there, was there anything else you wanted to add that we haven't

covered in the conversation already?

I think entrepreneurship is amazing journey.

So, you know, just stick with it for people who are starting

out and having a hard time.

It's really a long game.

So if you work hard and put in the hours and be smart about your decisions.

It's really, you won't regret it.

Oh, thanks so much.

Uh, it's been, uh, lovely to chat with you again today.

Thanks Really enjoyed the conversation.

Really valuable.

Could you remind everyone the best place

to connect with

you online?

I'm very active on LinkedIn, Aya Schlachter, S H L A C

H T E R also Instagram, my podcast, Architect My Business podcast, but

I'm also active on the Architect My Business podcast, Instagram, if

my last name is hard to spell, and lastly, my website, mgsglobalgroup.

com.

Brilliant.

I will share contact

details

in the show notes.

And, Seeing as we're here on a podcast, I

mean, I'll

give, uh, I've got to mention the podcast again, uh, Architect My Business.

I've, I've been in, had a listen to the show and it is, is a

great

podcast.

So I'm sure that the people that are listening

to

this show would really enjoy that one too.

So please go off, find it and subscribe.

Okay.

So, um, thanks

again.

And we'll, we'll catch up soon.

Thank you.

Next time I chat with Brian McCartney about the key things

he's learned from founding a managing five successful creative service firms.

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