We don't have to be everybody's thing, like

go find your thing, right?

What has God wired you to be passionate and care about, right?

Whether that's the homeless or building wells in Africa or kids in crisis

and then go, go there and go deep and give and be a part of that community.

You

Can a horse change a life?

Today on SeatGoCreate, The Leadership Journey, we welcome Kim Charette, founder

and CEO of Hope Reigns, a sanctuary where healing and hope meet through the

connection between children and horses.

Born from hEr own experience of abuse and finding solace with her horse

country, Kim has transformed her pain into purpose, creating a 38 acre ranch

in Raleigh, North Carolina, that has touched the lives of over 3, 000 children.

Join us as Kim discusses how resilience is built through relationships, both

human and equine, and shares her insights on the power of equine therapy.

The intersection of faith and mental health and the leadership lessons

learned from running a nonprofit that offers healing all free of charge.

Kim, welcome to Seek Go Create.

Thank you, Tim.

I'm very excited to be

here.

that you're here too.

My first question, is, When someone asks you what you do, what do you tell them?

I have the privilege of helping kids heal from their

trauma using horses of all things.

And when you say that, what do people say?

They say, wow, tell me about that.

How does that even work?

tell, tell me more.

Tell me more.

And and so one of the things that's fascinating,

there's like multiple things that interest and intrigue me about this.

And so what I'm going to attempt to do in our time together is try

to connect some of those dots.

But

I think the first thing that comes up when someone says that is, how'd you

get into that, which I know involves a lot of story and background.

So how did one get involved with that?

That

Yeah.

Well, do you want me to start with where we started or back in my childhood?

You know, why don't you start with how you

started and then we'll back up

Sure.

Yeah.

So, I had felt for a while that God had something for me to do.

And, I had gone to a, women's retreat where the question was asked, What

is something that you used to love to do that you don't do anymore?

And, for some reason, horses popped into my head, So I just started to

kind of pursue that a little bit.

And I thought, okay, God, am I supposed to buy a horse?

I started taking riding lessons again.

I started over kind of a two year period of really seeking the Lord, praying,

kind of waiting to see what he had.

And I ended up, in 2009 finding a book about an organization in

Oregon that was Kids and teens in crisis with rescued horses and this

beautiful healing was happening and given my personal background,

I was like, okay, God, this is it.

I know this is it.

So that's, that's how we got started.

I read a book and, God flew the doors open and we've been running

to keep up ever since for 15 years.

I was about to ask kind of put a time step on it.

So you're so you're around the 15 year mark Which means

you're out of startup stage And, and you've kind of even gone through

the stage of going through a few ups and downs and cycles, I'm guessing

from a leadership standpoint.

And what

state, how would you define the current stage you're at, at the 15 year mark if,

and whatever words come to mind are fine.

It's not like a hard and fast, but what stage would you say you're

at with the organization now?

Well, I think we're maturing.

We're a mature organization, but God is calling us to grow to help serve more

kids, but not in a way that I think most businesses would think of growing.

So it's a unique opportunity and unique way to grow.

Do you feel pressure to grow or it's just time or

what's the word behind that?

Well, it's been probably seven or eight years since

God gave us this big vision of true hope and real healing for every child.

And initially, we said, No, we're like, God, we're in Raleigh.

How is every child going to happen, with our location?

what we didn't know is that this, book, Joey, that's about our beginnings and

one of our rescued horses that was blinded from starvation was going to come

out and become a national bestseller.

And we've had all these people calling us and saying, will you help us get started?

So It's been happening, and we're just starting to execute on the plan to help

launch some additional ranches for more kids to have access to hope and healing.

we're going to, Back up in a moment because I know your story your

background and the work you're doing with horses fit together I will say

nicely You just brought up something.

I know a lot of listeners are leaders.

They do strategy.

I'm a strategic coach I work with organizations and What we will often do

kim and I know you've got a background in this area too Is that we will

sit down and develop strategy for?

Growing and it'll include marketing and how do we get the word out and

all of those things and all that's good I'm, not saying anything against

it, but it appears as if there was no strategy around this book joey It

appears as if even the author and and you i'm gonna let you tell the story

it appears as if This literally was a gift from god that came to you and So I know

I know you've got a business background and I also know you're a person of faith.

And so can you kind of tie those things together?

Because it seems as if something that you had really very little control

over, very little thought into is something that's really sprinkled

gasoline on this fire that you had

that was going

Yeah.

Well, we always say as a leadership team that we have seen and experienced

over the years that God gives us the vision, And then there's

always a time period of waiting.

it doesn't matter whatever new initiative he's taking us on.

He gives us the vision and then we have to wait for a little while.

And so, we've kind of gotten used to that.

But yeah, at the time we were a small organization.

And when this volunteer came and said, I want to write a book

about Joey, I was like, sure.

You know, unknown author, never published a book.

it's a very powerful story.

Joey was blinded from starvation.

He was an alternate to the Olympics, at one point in his life.

And, Tyndale fell in love with the story.

They've never, they never work with unknown authors.

So you can see how this is like, it's only God, like we can only point and

go, okay, God, you totally did this.

And then it's sold over a hundred thousand copies and.

become a national bestseller and touch so many people's lives.

And we get notes from around the world of people that have read

the book and it's touched them and they want to make a donation.

you know, we, at the time kind of on the heels of Joey had been

feeling the pressure of the mental health crisis for kids, right.

And how are we going to.

Grow and expand and serve more kids because what we're doing really

works and that's when these phone calls started to come about, will

you, will you help me get started?

And we have a very replicatable proven, not only program process, but

business process, like a very specific business process that we run on.

And, we wrestled for a long time.

We asked ourselves a lot of questions and really.

The board wrestled.

We all prayed and really felt like we even had a donor that offered us land to

franchise and it just wasn't right for us.

So it's not about hope reigns glory.

It's about the Lord.

So this is our strategy and our direction.

We're going to keep serving the kids at our ranch, and we're building this academy

to train other people so that they can have hope and healing in their community.

let me

attempt to stay focused on, the order I'd like to go.

first of all, I'm going to ask it in maybe a different way.

I already think I know the answer to this, but I'm.

Going to just state what I heard.

There wasn't a strategy meeting where y'all are sitting there going We need

to get more exposure Let's commission someone to write a book and that book

is going to sell a bunch of copies and it's going to spread our nets wide so

that we can Communicate with more people that wasn't on the radar at all, correct?

Not at all.

Was there even any hesitation when you said it was a volunteer?

I guess it was someone who had volunteered in the organization.

Was there any

hesitation saying, you know, what if they don't do a good job?

What if it comes across as a negative?

Was there any thought in that arena at all?

I honestly and I and she and I have had this conversation.

I didn't even think the book would come out.

I mean, it was such a long shot that that somebody who had never written a book

before was going to write a book and this is back before like anybody can write

a book today and you just publish it.

I mean, that wasn't really a thing.

This has been six or seven years ago, so I didn't even think it was

going to come out, you know, And so, and then when she drafted it, you

know, I thought it was, it was great.

It's really the beginnings of Hope Reigns and our ups and downs.

So, I mean, it's a very, it's a vulnerable book for us and for me.

So, but it's a very beautiful story.

and yeah, it's really impacted a lot of people.

I also want to say, and you may have the statistics, I don't

know the exact statistics, but there's a lot of books that get released,

like you said, and there's a lot of

books that get released, formal publishing, self publishing, etc.

And we do know how many books most of those sell, right?

Mm hmm.

I mean, I don't want to burst anybody's bubble that might

be listening in, but most books sell a handful, less than a hundred.

And did I hear you say a hundred thousand copies?

Over a hundred thousand

So, so phenomenal.

All right.

So, so I've circled around and we've kind of come to this.

Okay.

We, we can say that there was nothing other than God's

hand was in that

Yeah.

And then I think God had been planting for a while in our hearts this idea

of, you know, helping others or giving away what he's given us, right?

And that sort got fueled and, and then there were many, many years,

like I said, where we were going, what are we going to do with this?

So, yeah.

All right, so then that ties into the other thing.

I think I was able to keep it in my head so that I could pull it back out.

And that is just something that we talk about quite a bit here is the difference

between what I'll call the, the way of the kingdom of God, and then the way

of the world system.

And we can talk about business principles.

We can talk about the way business works.

Y'all mentioned franchise in your board meeting, you said in

your, in your leadership team.

And I think one of the things that is a challenge for people in a role

like you're in, I'm in, others, people that I work with, is, you know, we're

citizens of this kingdom of God that has But yet we still are functioning,

living, hanging out in this world system.

And so, I actually was bringing all that up to do kind of a follow up to the

discussion about the growth expansion.

You mentioned franchise.

And

I actually just had a conversation with a client for two days.

We were doing our core foundation session and they're growing tremendously.

But what are some other things that you can share from y'all's

brainstorming from your

Yeah, like how we made the decision.

So we're,

instead of franchising, we're replicating.

That's really

It's that I will often use the word duplicating.

I'll look at business

models often and I'll say, is this duplicatable?

Is that, would you say that's the

same word, similar word?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Replicate, duplicate.

Yeah, because we just didn't, you know, franchising is just

a whole beast in and of itself.

And then you're managing all that and you're making sure everybody's

doing exactly what you said.

and who are we to say that we have the perfect right way to do anything?

You know, I mean, we just really, you know, we have our three year plan.

that we execute on yearly, right?

put together through a lot of prayer and seeking God what

we think he wants us to do.

And then we execute on our plan and we leave things a little open because

he might change some things, right?

Or he might slow some things down.

And so it's, it's really trying to discern, God, where are you?

And there are some things that have happened over the years.

That I know we're headed in the wrong direction.

Like when I'm banging my head against the wall and I'm trying

to make something happen, it's like, Ooh, are you in this God?

Like, where are you?

You know?

And, and then there's the enemy.

It's a hard walk and really discerning where you are.

So one thing, and we'll get into this shortly, Kim, is I know

your background is one that you felt strongly about achieving, performing.

the reason I know a good bit about that is that my wife, Kami Came from a similar

situation and you know, we could use words like, in fact, we were just talking out

back of our RV here earlier, kind of in me, easing into this conversation was

that, you know, control being in control of situations is also a byproduct of that.

And I'm teasing a little bit of the conversation you are about

to have about your background.

absolutely.

the reason I bring it up here when we're talking about leadership,

leading an organization, and then you brought up that you have a three

year plan, but you keep it loose and flexible and you're expanding, you're

duplicating or replicating this model to other places, often control Is

lost when that happens and it can make

people uncomfortable if they have On the spectrum a higher level of control.

How's that been for you?

Knowing that some of that's in your past.

I'm not saying you're that way now, even though

Mm hmm.

Sometimes we have that it's part of what helps us succeed

Yes.

can be our kryptonite if we allow it to talk a little

bit about your journey In that

space, how

Yeah, we were about four to five years into creating

her brains and I was so exhausted.

I had two little kids and everybody knows startup is hard and I one day thought

I was having a heart attack and ended up going to the ER I was having panic

attacks, And what I realized in that process is that I was still performing.

And I was driving myself to accomplish because I wasn't worthy in and of myself,

And so that's my value performance.

and yes, control, because I thought I knew the way things needed to happen,

because that's all about safety for me.

If I know what's going to happen, if I can predict, then I'm going

to feel safe and secure, right?

So that's just been a huge obstacle for me personally to overcome.

and as an organization, we're very, I mean, driving is in our DNA.

we are not, low achieving people, so it's a hard mix, right?

But, you know, I think that, I've gotten better over the years.

It's not something I don't think I'm ever going to get over, so to speak.

But, yeah,

do you balance this is a great conversation that I want to state

right here was not on my mind when we first started, but this is powerful for

leaders because there's so many people that are leading from the place that

you're you're in how do you balance?

Pace you just mentioned you were Going at a pace that led to some

anxiety and things like that I think a lot of leaders are either there

or close to that right now

Yep.

And one of the things with the team I just recently met with I wrote

it on an index card early in the process.

They were such a fast moving organization.

I wrote slow down With even the few days that we were spending together

and I kept it in front of me the whole time it was very Awkward at

times because they struggle with slowing down, but we needed to.

So talk, I mean, all of that to say, just talk about pace.

What is your

personal pace?

What is the

pace of the organization?

I mean, because you have what I would call a very.

Patient requiring, I don't want to say product, ministry, role, whatever you do.

It's not like, it's not like y'all are churning through thousands

of people on a weekly basis.

So pace, that's the topic.

Anything that the Lord

leads you to say about that.

Yeah, well, it's so fascinating to him because this is

where our horses teach us so much, you know, and I think as far as pace goes,

like we've been in different places for pace, like building, growing, driving.

Right now, we are, really kind of slowing down to go fast, right?

We're slowing down.

We're assessing where we are so that we can build.

Build any additional resources or, internal capacity, so that

we can continue our expansion.

we have a very special culture, and that is really important to us.

Our staff, we have a 94 percent engagement rate with our staff, and, it's comes

from our core values and that we really live and breathe our core values, being

authentic, Sharing our story, you know, Jesus heals a lot of different things.

But, I think when you talk about pace, with the kind of, equine

therapy that we do, right.

Which is about relationship.

Where our horses are not here to perform, they don't have a task to do.

Their job is to connect relationally and emotionally and

be present with these kids, right?

And for us to facilitate that.

And in our line of work, you don't go in and drive a horse, right?

So the pace and the way you present yourself really is going to determine

What's going to happen, whether they're going to want to engage with you or not.

Because if you're all harried and running and stressed out and you come up to

them, they are going to be like, whoa, I want nothing to do with you today

because you are completely unregulated.

Right.

So it's just really important internally what's happening with us.

and yeah, we learn a lot from our horses in that way.

Very good.

And so let's start connecting a few other dots here.

You mentioned that you are in the space that you're in because

somewhere in your past you had interest or connected with horses.

And then you also said that what you do with the children that come

through also is related to your past.

So let's jump back whatever you believe with the line of questioning

and the pace and all that we're doing with this conversation.

However you would like to tell that story, let's, let's go ahead and share that now.

Kim's background and how how this all what was going on before hope reigns

Oh yeah, well, I, grew up in Ohio in an upper middle class home

that looked really great on the outside.

my dad was a very successful businessman and it just looked really good.

But what people didn't know is on the inside, it was not good.

he was an alcoholic and very emotionally and verbally abusive and we just never

knew what was coming through the door.

You know, the garage door would go up and it was just all of us were like, Huh.

You know, what's, what's coming through that door.

And, there was just never any rhyme or reason.

And, we were never allowed to talk about it.

You know, anybody who, has addiction in their life knows it's very

hidden and it's very shameful.

And I really grew up feeling crazy.

Like.

I knew something wasn't right, but we weren't allowed to talk

about how it wasn't right.

And I think a lot of kids, in my position, they either, go internally, right?

They, they implode and sort of, you know, just go inside

themselves, or they perform.

And I totally went the performance route, because I just tried everything I could

to get my dad's, love and attention.

Which never really worked.

and, for some reason, I think it was because it looked good.

He ended up buying me a horse and, he ended up buying me this really, for my

first horse was just this Morgan horse that I just had fun with, which I loved.

And then when we moved from Ohio to Oklahoma, he bought me this

really expensive show horse.

And I loved that horse.

And, you know, the, the barn was like the place where I felt safe.

It was a place of comfort for me, and my horse was really the only

thing I ever whispered my secrets to of what was happening in my life.

but because he bought me a show horse, I had to sort of perform in that, right?

I had to go into the show ring and perform, which wasn't what I wanted.

Like, if I had my druthers, I would just hang out with my horse, play with my

horse, and relationally connect with my horse, which is exactly what we do today.

Brains, um, which is really crazy.

But, I sold my horse, where my dad sold my horse.

And I went to college, where my dad wanted me to go to, and I ended up

studying marketing because my sister did that and I didn't know what else.

and so embarked on a marketing career that I think I was pretty successful at,

worked at a lot of, smaller businesses, during the dot com boom, companies that

went IPO or got sold and really learned so much about, Business and marketing.

And, then I started to get this poll from God, I went through so much of

my life, Tim, I'm sure maybe some of your listeners can relate to this.

My life was this when, then.

Like when this happens, then I'm going to be happy, right?

When I move, then I'm going to be happy when I have this relationship, right?

And there was always this emptiness inside of me, right?

Because I had no value as a human being, and didn't feel loved for who I was.

this is, when God really started pursuing me, and I ended up finding Jesus after

I got married and my husband and I moved to Raleigh and that was the catalyst.

I always said, I'm never going to drive a minivan and I'm never

going to stay home with my kids.

And guess what happened?

Because my work was empty.

I was just making other people a lot of money.

And so I stayed home for a period of time.

And then that ties into the tail end of what I shared with you about when God

started to really resurrect this or plant this dream, in me to help other kids.

Was there any component of faith During your growing up years at all

No, I mean we would go to church because it

looked good, like Christmas, Easter, but it was always a fight.

Like there was always this argument, are we going or are we not going?

So, I didn't have any connection to a faith, when I was a child.

there was the, I'm, I'm going to use two words and you correct

me if these are incorrect words, but this is how I've been defining a lot

of things with a lot of spiritual studies and things that I've been doing.

There's chaos and there's peace.

One of the things that Jesus says is that He brings His peace.

And there's a lot to that.

I also think that peace is a word in our current modern day culture.

We may not even have a good grasp of it.

We think world peace.

We think peace between countries,

hmm.

harmony, things like that.

But truthfully, I think the foundation of peace is peace between.

Us and God and then other things spill

from there.

But anyway, so he brings our peace But it sounds as if and I know this from

speaking with my wife because she was the Child of alcoholic parents went

through divorce suicide attempts from her mother a lot of stuff like that

I didn't it sounded a little flippant the way I said that I did not mean

for it to come across that way I'm

yeah.

giving facts

Yeah.

Did you find peace in the barn?

Yes, that's what I found in the barn.

It was, it's like the things that we teach people, that our horses

teach us now, is being still, being present, slowing down, like way down.

these are the principles, these are the truths of horses, right?

Doing everything, everything is about relationship and connection first.

Always about relationship first.

And so, That's what I was experiencing and what I wanted, but wasn't allowed.

I was only allowed snippets of it, you know, at the time that I could grab it.

So, is it possible?

I'm about to try to connect something that maybe we shouldn't, but was Jesus

in your life in the barn at a time that you may not have had Jesus in your life?

Right.

sure.

I mean, who could make up this?

This is all God's plan.

I know Jesus was with me, you know, I just didn't know it at the time, right?

Because this horse and this connection was a gift that he planted in my heart

of something that I'm so passionate about that I now want other people

to be able to enjoy and experience.

And that's all we do at our ranch.

showing and performing is great with horses, it's just not what we do.

So, all right, there's an exercise that you brought up that

is sort of like in between here.

And I think I may have heard you on another podcast mentioned this,

but you said that you were asked, I don't know if it was a Bible study

or if you were in some counseling or

something like that, something

like what is something that you once enjoyed doing or the anyway,

I've kind of gotten it started.

So tell that again and, and then I've got something I want to ask about it.

Yeah, so we were at a women's retreat and the woman asked

the question to all of us, what is something that you used to love

to do that you don't do anymore?

And I think as women, we wear so many hats, right?

We multitask, we raise our kids, a lot of us work.

I mean, it's, and then we get lost in the shuffle.

You know, and I think you can even say that for men.

You know, we don't value ourselves.

We don't put our, self care.

first and live out of that.

We empty ourselves first.

Right.

And so I think her point was, like, are you enjoying your life?

Like, do you have a passion?

Do you have something that that's fun that brings you joy and brings you life

right outside of your normal duties?

And that's just when horses popped into my head.

And honestly, I hadn't thought about it since I sold my horse.

that would have been 25 years, you know?

So yeah.

Do you,

here's the reason I bring it up that obviously was an event.

It was a time it's probably been at least 15 years ago because it was before this

current, this current project iteration was started.

Is that something that we need to ask ourselves more often?

It is something we need to, and I think it's, a different question

for different seasons of life, right?

Because when you're young and you're staying at home with your kids, that

can look really different than my phase, which is an empty nester, right?

I think God gives all of us passions.

in fact, I talked to our donors about this a lot, like we don't

have to be everybody's thing, like go find your thing, right?

What has God wired you to be passionate and care about, right?

Whether that's the homeless or building wells in Africa or kids in crisis

and then go, go there and go deep and give and be a part of that community.

So as you first realized something with horses was part of maybe

an assignment that you had, but also it was part of your healing process.

hmm.

Anything that you want to share about that, and then we're probably

going to talk more about organization.

But to me, it's so fascinating that this story is about Kim.

And it's about a ministry and an organization.

That's the way God

works too.

It's like we think it's what we do for the world and the impact and all this kind of

stuff when at the end of the day there may be a time in this next

realm where God just whispers in your ear, you hear, Kim, just so you

know, all this was just about you.

Yeah.

Well, I actually had to wrestle with that.

we brought in a specific horse that was the kind of horse I grew up riding that

I really wanted to have in our program.

And everybody was like, Kim, she's not going to work in our program,

and tried for several years.

And what I didn't realize is that she was for me.

She was not for the ministry, but I couldn't receive her.

For me, So it's been such a healing journey for me.

It still is.

And our staff will say that and our volunteers will say that

because so many times we come to something like, Oh, I'm here.

I'm going to help you.

I'm going to do all this stuff.

And you don't realize like, we say around our ranch, we're all session kids and

God wants true hope and real healing for us as much as he does for our kids.

And that's what ends up happening when we really lean into.

The way our program is structured and the skills that we're building that

horses teach us and that healing happens.

You can't help but experience that yourself.

that's getting larger,

how Do we, do you keep in mind that, you know, this is about the impact.

This is about the big vision.

It is about the mission, but there's also Kim that's part of this.

how do you do that?

let me ask it this way.

How are you doing with that right now?

Are you hyper focused on organization or are you still very keenly aware of.

Your soul, your heart, your mind, you know, anyway, is that an okay question?

And

Absolutely.

And I think, you know, my role is changing a lot and my role has continued to

change, you know, throughout the years.

I'm like our visionary.

I'm the one that's Thinking about the future and where are we going and

meeting with donors and making sure all of our money comes in I Have a

fantastic COO Who's our integrator, she's the one who can go Kim that's not

happening or Kim that can happen, right?

and so she's kind of like the filter and she manages all the staff and

the leadership team We're really in a phase where we're really continuing

to raise up I'm really stepping more out because I'm really working on

this future, this future vision.

Which is really, really exciting for me, and it's kind of weird and scary, right?

I think because we're in a place with the organization really slowing down,

I've realized over the last however many years that I haven't been doing

a good job taking care of myself.

so, my self care is my number one priority.

It's God and then it's Kim.

It's not God and then Kim.

My marriage and Hope Reigns and my kids and I get mixed in there somewhere.

I'm really making a concerted effort, to execute a really strong self

care plan, which is going to make me a better leader, a better wife,

a better mom, a better everything.

How much time do you actually spend in the barn?

Do,

you mean me

do, yeah.

and the barn is a bit of a metaphor here for what,

you mean like what I did

Yeah.

It's like, you know, there was a, there was obviously that was a place of peace.

That was where Jesus met you.

And then later in life you realized that was a connection.

And then now there's an organization around all of that

Yeah,

and you're raising money and you're doing the

podcast and blah, blah, blah.

I mean, all, listen,

leaders, the people listening in going, Oh boy.

yeah,

how often are you spending it

in the, proverbial barn maybe?

Well, the literal of that is the horse I mentioned that we

brought in, we ended up determining she wasn't a good fit to be at Hope Reins.

And thankfully, one of our board members lives right around the corner

and she has her own rescued horses.

And so she lives, her name is Selah.

She lives there.

And that's my space and my place.

And it's actually so much better for me because then I don't have to be

like, I love being at Hope Reins.

It's so great, but it's people are always, Hey, what's going on?

You know what I mean?

It's not the place where I can just stop and have that moment.

And so I go out and see her several times a week and we hang out

and, and that's, that's my time.

That's my connection.

What does that do for the rest of your week

when you spend that time?

And what does it do for your week when you don't spend that time?

Contrast the two.

And the reason I'm digging on this while you're pausing, I am seeing in the world

that we are currently in, leaders that would consider themselves a faith, let's

say kingdom of God, that this topic is.

Yeah.

are they finding their peace because they're they're generating

a lot There's a lot of chaos and all the rest of the organization.

So contrast the two I mean, do you notice anything like oh, this is what I notice

here and you don't have to make it up If there's no difference i'm cool with that,

too

no.

And it's really more than just going in.

It's more than barn time.

But if you're using barn time as an analogy of like.

My time with God, like

my solitude, my silence, my connection,

that is every morning, 5.

30, 6 a.

m.

and a not rushed time and man, when it's not happening, I

feel it, after a day or two.

So it's, it's so vital because.

How else can you get alone and really know what, what God is showing you,

you know, where he wants you to go.

I'm, I'm marinating in Psalm 25 right now, just talking about the steadfast love

and the mercy of God, and just waiting on him and making my path straight Lord.

And, you know, I've done.

running ahead of God For a long time and I don't want to do it anymore.

I just don't have the appetite for that anymore it sucks the

life out of you And it's just not something i'm interested in it.

It's not fruitful for me I would much rather slow down keep my connection

and go wherever it is he wants to go because Then I have stories to share

with you that you can't make up, you know, because they're they're about god

They're for his glory and not mine, right?

the interesting thing that i've been observing and I get to work

with leadership teams So I see this is that the community I don't want to say

my time gets magnified or productivity.

Well, I don't even say that, you know, in business and leadership.

So many times we can get extremely results oriented, you know, we could,

you know, like, well, how many, how many horses have you rescued?

How many kids, you know, are in the current program and what, how many

branches or whatever we're going to call them ranches that, how many do you have?

and and yes, I think it's important to know the numbers.

But something that's fascinating to me recently is that the less

I do or we'll say the more time I spend in the barn During this

the more time I spend in the barn

the more I look at the the results are popping up that I probably wanted but

yet maybe they just Keep happening.

It's it's and I believe leaders that consider themselves

kingdom minded leaders.

That is

the most important thing to be doing right now.

The still quiet

time to know that he is.

Absolutely, because it really goes back to our motivation,

and I think as a leader, sometimes it's really hard to realize that your

motivations are not great, right?

It's, you say you're doing something for God, and yet, You know, where

is God in what you're doing?

And why are you killing yourself and driving your team?

And, you know, so it's hard sometimes.

And it's just, it's part of the growth process.

And I've had that too.

I've had to check my motivations and go, Oh, wow.

Ow, yuck.

This is not, this is not godly at all.

So you mentioned that you were trained in marketing and probably

have A lot of skills probably can do marketing plans business plans all of

that type stuff there a lot of those skills that you learn that are being

implemented today in the organization?

Are there some are there none?

Is it different?

give a relationship of Old I want to say old kim Uh

Yeah.

Pre and now Kim running this

organization

Yeah.

Well, I mean, my background in brand management and brand development and

product you know, working in that whole crazy dot com boom of, marketing your

company on TV just to get it sold.

You know, it was just it was a crazy time.

So there was so many different skills that that I learned.

But I think, some of the biggest connections I would make is our brand.

Is really, really important at Hope Brains.

And I say that to mean a lot of different things.

Like the moment somebody steps foot on our property, that's when it starts, right?

Or they see our website or they receive something in the mail.

So we have a very specific look of our photos and, you know, somebody

receives something from Hope Brains.

If it didn't have our logo on it, they would know automatically it's us.

even just people will say stepping foot in our property, Tim, it's like, it's clean.

It's calm.

It's safe.

Like the first thing we want a kid to feel when they walk on our

property is safety because without feeling safe, they can't heal.

Right.

And so we just do things with excellence and we take care of what God's given us.

We steward our resources really well.

And marketing has always been a very important at Hope Reigns.

It is a seat at our leadership table.

And I think a lot of times companies say, Oh, let's cut marketing

because sales are down or whatever.

and it's just not always the right strategy.

or even different is if it's a ministry or if it's something

that's in Church world we need to do it differently because we're different.

Marketing happens everywhere.

it's the staff that stops for a moment on a donor tour and introduces them

to the horse that they're working to.

You know what I mean?

it's how we answer the phone.

it's all tied together.

Is there anything no different that one does with

marketing an organization like this where faith is a component.

I mean, I, you don't hide the fact that y'all are followers of Jesus.

I'm looking at the website right now.

You know, it's not all over the place.

But you don't have to do a lot of research To find out it's there Is

there anything different that you do you have to consider versus what

you did with a dot com company, you know, 25 30 years ago a different way

of thinking any strategies that are different anything that comes to mind

Well, I think, it's funny.

we don't charge our clients for our services.

They're completely free of charge.

number one, because we're faith based and number two, because the majority

of the kids that we serve live at or below the poverty line and they

could never afford to go to school.

See a therapist and get any help.

And, we're based solely on donations.

We don't take any government money.

And so we are who we are and either people like that or they don't.

And that's not the way most businesses run, right?

Because you want to cater to everybody wanting whatever it is that you

have so that you can be the leader.

And so we've just learned a long time ago that we, we've really been working to

connect with people who care about kids and in crisis that have a heart for what

we do and God always provides, right?

Because then they, they're very passionate.

They too, most of the time have had their own impact, um,

story with something traumatic.

So they get where our kids are and they want to pay it forward.

I don't know if that answered

Yeah, it does because that is

a different way of thinking and the ROI is different the ROI to me are

some of the stories and I think I've heard some, as we sort of make a little

bit of a transition here into talking more about where the Lord has you now

with the organization, what are some

things that you're looking for?

What are opportunities?

what are some things that you might have need of?

I've heard a story about a horse hero Let's talk about the

real returns of what this organization does.

Yeah, and we're working on a really special project right now,

our 15th year anniversary, and we have 15 of our adult kids that have been

through our program that are thriving right now, and I can't wait to be able

to share all those stories with you.

They're so excited to share where they are today.

the majority of them have said they wouldn't even be alive, you know, or

where they are without hope brains.

I think the story you're talking about gives a little context

of what happens in sessions.

Lily was one of our kids that, at the time was five years old.

her mother was a drug addict and overdosing on the couch.

And she called 9 1 1 to get she and her little brother rescued, rescued

her mom, saved her mom's life.

And then, You know, got removed and put into the foster care system, which for

a lot of kids is not a good situation.

And unfortunately for her little brother, the caregiver was

keeping him locked in a dog cage.

And this made the news here in Raleigh.

I mean, just horrific abuse.

And at five years old, she was so brave to him.

She found an iPad.

She went and took a photo of her brother in this dog cage

and showed it to a safe adult.

And again, got them rescued.

And, you know, when the kids come to Hope Reigns, the first things that we do is

we take them on a tour and we introduce them to all the horses and their stories.

And most of the time a kid will resonate and connect with a certain horse's story.

And then sometimes a horse picks a child.

Lily came that day with her new family.

she and her little brother had been adopted and they came through the

gate and she literally stood in front of her brother, like protecting him.

Cause this has been her whole life that she's had to take care of.

Protect him, right?

And, as they started on the tour and they were going down the fence line,

one of our horses, who was sleeping in his shelter, saw Lily and just made a

beeline and walked right to her all the way across the paddock, put his head over

the fence, right on her little chest, and took a big sigh And everybody including

Lily were, was weeping because here's a little girl that had never been chosen.

She'd never been prioritized.

She's had to fight her whole life.

And of course Hero was her horse.

And, this is where the God thing comes.

Because we can't make this up.

We can't make something like that happen.

And then to process with this girl, Lily, like, you're a hero.

You saved your mom.

you saved your brother.

And who chose you?

But the horse name Hero, right?

And so she's either going to run her brain someday, or she's going to be the

president of the United States because she's so courageous and brave and has

experienced so much healing out of the ranch and has really built so much

resiliency to help her into her future.

And it's just doing so fantastic.

You use the word resilience.

What's interesting is, I'm just thinking about a recent team that I was working

with and I actually use words, I said we need to be a more resilient

leadership team.

when you use that word, maybe not The way I used it, even though it probably

is similar to talk a little bit more about why it's important, maybe even if

it had something to do with your story.

why is that part of I don't say your marketing that I see?

what is resilience come up so often?

And what I see when I look at Hope Reigns.

Yeah, well the four things horses teach us trust communication

boundaries and leadership are the skills that we teach our kids that the resiliency

skills, and they're all, they're all rooted in scripture and who God says

we are right, I am safe, I matter.

Um, I'm not alone and I have purpose perfectly aligned with, with these

four things sources teach us.

And then we discovered, many years ago that Harvard did this huge study on

kids and trauma and how kids needed to build resiliency and trauma.

That's how you like hope and healing equals resiliency.

And what they found was that kids really needed one safe adult relationship.

There's four skills that they say kids need to build.

We call it the recipe for resilience.

But it's really, Tim, in the simplest terms, our ability to bounce back, right?

and where you are bouncing from matters, right?

If you're bouncing from a place of, where you're not healed.

So many kids who don't heal from their trauma become the homeless,

the incarcerated, the mentally ill, the drug addicted, right?

So for us, them being able to heal and then onboarding these skills,

because they're going to have hard things happen in their life.

And we want them to always be able to go back to, Oh, I learned these coping

skills, these really healthy skills.

and take that into my adult life.

And so that's why resiliency matters.

And we measure what we value.

We measure hope and healing out at our ranch.

that's how we know what we do works.

And I guess that, that's a powerful word.

I love that, you know, hope and healing, and one of the things that's interesting

is that in our culture today, you don't have to look around very much and know

that there is a lot of hopelessness.

And so it is interesting and, you know, we, we haven't mentioned this

for those that might be with the audio, but the Hope Reigns is spelled R E

I N S for a reason, not R A I N S.

Kim, talk about what all goes on with one.

You, you've got yours, I guess, your facility, your place in

Raleigh there up in North Raleigh.

And then we're going to talk about maybe more of the scale aspect,

but just give a little bit of information about what happens at one.

I'm guessing there's not.

thousands that come through there.

There may be some

numbers that, you know, you can handle this or that, but just give me a little

bit of information on one location and then we'll talk about the bigger picture.

Well, yeah, where we are today, it's very different

than where we started, right?

But in a year, we're doing about 3, 000 little over 3,

000 free of charge sessions.

And this year we'll serve about 260 kids.

And so what that looks like is that the kids come weekly.

Our program starts first with one on one mentorship because,

again, we have to build safety.

Kids have to feel safe.

They have to build connection and trust.

Trust, boundaries, communication, and leadership are the skills that

we're working on all the time.

And then they move along our pathway.

And they start building peer relationships and they start,

you know, with leadership skills.

we have Kids Give Back, which is our volunteer program where

kids get to come and serve and give back, to the organization.

and it's really about a three year process is what we see for a lot of

our kids that they're with us, to really, heal and onboard, these skills.

And so there's many people that they would think this

is somewhat of a crass question, but it's, this is Business talk here.

What is the cost overhead, et cetera?

I'm sure you've probably got some degree of numbers here.

What is the

cost for either the visit or for someone that goes through the three year program

for one of these children that do that?

what do those numbers look like?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, our budget this year is a little over 2 million, 2.

2 million.

And, and we've got 36 staff that do a lot of our sessions, but we also

have 200 active volunteers, Tim, that really run our operations.

And so we've got an 18 horses.

So it's a lot to manage, but we like to talk to people about a child.

We really, kids commit and parents commit to a year.

And so year one is really the most vital because that's when they are in the most

extreme trauma and they really need to come weekly, which ends up being about 40

sessions, you know, throughout the year.

And it costs us about 18, 000.

And that's a direct cost of like number of kids, not, you know, how

many sessions and cost per session.

So if people want to sponsor a kid, it costs about 18, 000 a year.

And so many people, when we talk situations like this, they will

say money is our biggest challenge.

I don't think that

way, just so you know, because I'm looking at,

you know, 36 staff, 200 volunteers, property, you know, it's not as

if y'all are doing this in a small storefront, you're doing it on

a piece of land.

What would be your Biggest barriers, challenges, et cetera.

Or if someone is thinking about doing this, what would be

some of the biggest things that they will, they can consider?

And I know your location is in a different place than someone who

might be wanting to get started, but what are some of the challenges?

Well, I think our challenges today, I really tend to

be more going back to what you talk about the pace and our leadership.

and we only have, we have this many hours for a leader and where should

they be spending that time, right?

Like, we have some of our staff that have been with us for 15 years.

They have all the knowledge, right?

They're the ones.

That are stepping into the academy and doing a lot of this training.

Right.

But they're also running operations.

So, you know, it's for, for, Barb and I are COO.

It's like, where, where is the best place to deploy the resources that we have?

and then I think a lot of times, you know, sometimes we end up being the

bottleneck, right, because we only have so much capacity and then at the same

time, we're, we're telling ourselves right now, Hey man, let's just slow down.

Who's setting this pace, right?

So for people, especially in the beginning, you know, we Everybody

always wants to know how do I do a session and where do I get a horse?

And it's and you know what, you know what we do with our Academy.

our first course The first module is business.

The second is leadership and the third is operations so we don't

even tell you anything about horses or kids Until our third module,

because none of that matters.

If you don't have the right structure and the right foundation and a good business

plan and a way to talk to people to invest and you're assessing where are you as

a leader and where are your skills and where do you need to bring people with

different skills in, you know what I mean?

And just take the time that you need to build things the right way.

And, that's really the, the, the biggest key learning is I

think we've driven ourselves too hard at different time periods.

And I would offer to people not to do that.

So right now you have people on your staff that are really

working within your operations and then they're turning around and teaching etc

People can't do that.

They're either operations or academy.

Have y'all run at all into there's some people that are better at teaching it

and some that are better at operations or will it eventually be two separate

Things.

That's their

job is the Academy.

But the way we look at it is we have subject matter

experts on our staff, right?

Like if we're talking about how to train a horse, I'm not going to

be the person to do that training, that will be our director of

operations or equine manager, right?

Because that's their area of expertise.

And then you're right.

There's some people that are really good at teaching and some that aren't.

But, we just have our core group of subject matter experts, that really

do a lot of the video curriculum.

And then we have our two staff that are working with our current ranches,

34, we're excited we have 34, that are working on building a program right now.

So, tell me about the academy.

How many people have

been through it?

How many people are interested?

What's the type of person?

I mean, you told your story, your background and your interest in

horses kind of came together.

Is that required for someone that's interested in doing this or, you know,

tell, tell me a little bit more about

that.

Yeah, it's not.

I mean, we've had like we beta test everything that we do, Tim.

we build and then we test.

And so we did virtual trainings for three years and had 90

people that went through that.

And we had quite a few people that started there.

And now we've built a formal, academy with an LMS and a video course.

curriculum, called the essentials.

That's everything you need to know from year zero to three, how to start

yourself up and open your doors.

And, I would say it seems that the people who, are called to this

tend to be people more like me.

Like maybe they had a horse when they were a kid, or maybe

they always had a dream of that.

They've had some sort of emotional issue, trauma, maybe somebody in their life.

because I do think it is a calling.

and then I think that a lot of times the people sometimes who are called,

they're not the only person because they're not going to have all the

skill set, you know what I mean?

They, you've got to find, this is one of our encouragements in the beginning

is we're big on assessments, test yourself, what are your strengths and

weaknesses, and then go find people to walk with you in your areas of weakness.

Yeah, and we have again, 34 people that are in the essentials right now

and, uh, and very excited that they're working on building their own ranch.

Our goal, Tim, is to launch 200 ranches.

So by 2035.

running, and we've got a woman in Iceland, we've got somebody in Germany, we've

got people all over the United States.

They're just, you know, however they find out about us primarily

through the book or hear about us.

Our son just circumvented Iceland on a cruise.

He flew from where we were here to, he's 30 years old, and he

was invited to come on a cruise.

And so he went to Reykjavik and went around there.

Very interesting.

Is there a, I don't want to say a profile, that's not the right Term is

there is there anything any common?

Traits characteristics, etc.

That because I'm going to ask you if there's that and if it's

yes, if it's no, that's fine

and then i'm going to allow you to give Whatever it is.

It's on your heart.

That might be a need for what your organization is

doing.

But what type person?

Might need to reach out to you if they're like going, you

know, this is intriguing to me.

Well, I think anybody who's intrigued should reach out

Good answer.

because you just never know.

And the other exciting thing is, even if you're not, maybe you're somebody who

works with horses and veterans, or you work with horses and, a different type

of audience, we can help you as well.

And we're coming out with our horsemanship, our methodology and

how we train our horses, which is going to be really exciting

for a broader audience for us.

All right.

So having said all of that, I'm going to give you some time here, Kim.

Speaking of the microphone, what do you need?

What is a desire?

What is something that if someone's listening in, they've listened in

this long and you just wanted to speak to them, what would you say?

and maybe in the same breath, say how they can connect with

you and reach out and websites

hmm.

or anything like that.

So you've, you've got.

I think for maybe you're not interested

in starting something similar.

I will tell you that right now we have 80 kids that are

waiting to get into our program.

So they're in the highest trauma.

They need to get into our services 4 million between

now and the end of the year.

to fund these 80 kids so that they can start in our program.

And so you can sponsor a kid.

You can sponsor, you know, whatever you can, but we need that support

to make sure that all of these kids, can get into our program.

And, if you're interested in knowing more about the Academy, we've

got an offer for your audience.

If you go to Hope Reins, Tim said, r e i n s dot o r g.

Backslash podcast, you can sign up to, join our newsletter to get

the stories of the ranch, just like the one I shared about Lily.

We send them out once a week.

you can download a free copy of the Joey book.

If that's something that you're interested in, we're giving away free copies of that.

and then you can find out more about our Academy and what does this look like?

And how could you possibly help me?

we just want to help more people.

So that more kids have access to hope and healing in their community.

That's the most important thing.

And I'm actually, I've got it pulled up right here now.

Horses, mentors, Jesus, beautiful picture there.

That's where someone could go to donate them on the donate page currently.

So that's where they could go.

Yep.

the sponsor of the step one and

step two is a 16, 000.

And I would know some resources of people that listened in that

actually could be something that they could sponsor someone for that.

Well, We will include the links to those, Kim.

I appreciate you sharing that and I did look at the page also where Someone could

get the book and sign up and there I believe that there could be Some interest

from that from people that listen in so we'll expect people to do that Kim.

We are Seek go create those three words If I were to allow you to choose one of

those And why, which would you choose?

Seek, go or create?

My last question.

Oh, for sure.

Seek.

I've gone, gone, gone.

Go, go, go.

And, and created.

And like I said, it's Psalm 25.

I'm just in a posture of really seeking, waiting on the Lord and letting him

guide our path and what the next steps are and trying not to be the driver.

I so enjoy hearing stories of people that are doing,

you know, it, we say they're unique.

Not, not everything is that unique.

This is actually unique to me.

this is what got my attention when it came across my desk.

You know, I'm looking at hopereigns.

org now.

Make sure if you're still listening in, go check that out.

Go check out all that they're doing.

Because this is a great story.

This is a great cause.

This is something that other people need to be aware of.

So I'm excited.

I was able to have the conversation with you.

If you've been listening in here at SeatGoCreate, we do

have new episodes every Monday.

They're on YouTube.

They're on all the platforms.

I appreciate you sharing and subscribing and commenting and love to see the

comments down below on YouTube and all about this conversation we've had.

It's been a little bit unique having the leadership conversation around the

ministry, but I've enjoyed it thoroughly.

until next time, continue being all that you were created to be.