Marvin: Hey folks it's marvin cash the host of the articulate fly we're back with another
Marvin: casting angles with mac brown mac how are you i'm.
Mac: Doing great how are you marvin.
Marvin: As always i'm just trying to stay out of trouble and you know i think we were
Marvin: talking before we started recording that i think cool weather may be coming
Marvin: early to the mid-atlantic it.
Mac: Is it's it's been really nice in the evening up here, and we're starting to
Mac: get down in the 50s, like upper 50s, and I think they're calling by the end
Mac: of the week we're going to be down in the low 50s, which will feel kind of like
Mac: fall again. So that'll be nice.
Marvin: Yeah, I'm eager for anything we can do to get this humidity out of here.
Marvin: It's been too muggy this summer.
Mac: It has. It's been a hot summer. I mean, even for here, we spent a lot of days
Mac: in the upper 80s, which I don't remember a lot of summers.
Mac: Summers i've moved up here in 87 1987 and
Mac: i don't think i remember many summers where we stayed in the upper 80s like
Mac: we did this summer so it's been hotter than normal and so i'm looking forward
Mac: to definitely getting cooled off and having a lot better cool cool mornings
Mac: it's going to really help with the rain the last four days we've had pretty pretty good rainfall,
Mac: not like blowout kind of rainfall but just enough to keep cooling the waters
Mac: and give the grass and plants some some liquid we went about four or five weeks
Mac: with no rain so it's been really nice yeah.
Marvin: And so you know obviously we've got you know six weeks before the stocking truck
Marvin: shows up what are you seeing on the water.
Mac: We've been going after a lot of browns up in the mostly in the national park
Mac: and uh we've been we've been doing a lot of brown trout fishing with terrestrials
Mac: the last uh month has really been full of doing that with chasing browns.
Mac: It's like inchworms, ants, beetles.
Mac: That's pretty much all we've thrown. We've not thrown any aquatic type flies
Mac: for the last month. Everything's been terrestrial stuff.
Mac: That's been a lot of fun early in the morning at daylight, starting at 6.30
Mac: and we're pretty much done by 11 every morning. The brown trout fishing's been really fun.
Marvin: Yeah. It's funny too, because I would say like the beetle is my secret weapon
Marvin: on the South Holston when all those guys are trying to do the little itty bitty
Marvin: fiddly mayflies, either a small beetle or like a June bug submerged to me has
Marvin: always been the way to get out of jail.
Mac: Yeah, I mean, it really does call out those predatory fish, like to see a beetle.
Mac: I mean, it's kind of funny, like the numbers of fish the last month have all
Mac: been, I don't think we've had but a handful of rainbows.
Mac: But rainbow don't like the water temp like where it is right now.
Mac: They're as easy as brown trout will see through it, you know.
Mac: And it's like rainbow will get good again in the fall.
Mac: So it just is kind of a natural progression this
Mac: time of year to focus in on browns you know a lot
Mac: of people will say go up high try to catch brook trout
Mac: but even that up high with it as hot as it's been you know that's going to suffer
Mac: because brook trout really don't like that kind of hot water either so the only
Mac: natural thing we've got rainbows browns and brooks we got a lot of you know
Mac: wild brook trout but the only natural thing to be going for in my opinion is
Mac: chasing browns up high Because, I mean,
Mac: if you want to have good fishery, the water temp, I mean, in the morning still,
Mac: we're still sitting in the low 60s in the morning, like 60, 61 degrees.
Mac: By the time 11 o'clock rolls around, it'll get up and start knocking right up 66 to 67.
Mac: And that's when it's time to quit. But between that 60 degree margin to 65,
Mac: I mean, the fish have been really happy with terrestrials.
Mac: So that's a good, a good ticker. yeah.
Marvin: And you know you were telling me too that you've had you know a really rewarding
Marvin: last month or so on the teaching front as well.
Mac: Oh it's been it's been fabulous so many so many people that that have showed
Mac: up just with the intent of trying to figure out this whole game of fly fishing
Mac: and that's what we figured would would maybe talk about tonight is to make drift,
Mac: to make drift the grail and it's like these people that are brand new are doing
Mac: things like Like just really quick because we always start off with some instructional
Mac: stuff for about an hour about foundational movement and how to form a loop and
Mac: how to make it do what they want. But it's been really amazing.
Mac: I had just so many.
Mac: The biggest one that comes to mind is 11-year-old girl from Atlanta that came with her daddy.
Mac: And it's like we were doing aerial reach men's and curves, you know, 40, 50 feet.
Mac: And she's just got a big smile on her face. And she's 11 years old.
Mac: She's doing stuff that a lot of people would call advanced. and she did all
Mac: that in under 25 minutes.
Mac: And it's just like, it's so rewarding as a teacher to see brand new people doing
Mac: what people would deem advanced but they've only been doing it for 25 minutes, you know?
Mac: It's a lot easier to train people like that that are newer because they don't have lots of habits.
Mac: And it's hard to break and learn new things when they already have a habit of
Mac: how to deliver something, you know?
Mac: So that's been a real rewarding thing.
Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting too, because you and I talk about this all the time,
Marvin: about having a focus on, you know, why we do what we do, right?
Marvin: And how that makes it easier to kind of learn how to be a better angler.
Marvin: I mean, it's true for lots of different things, but, you know,
Marvin: you and I were talking before we started recording about, you know,
Marvin: understanding like how you want the fly to behave.
Marvin: And then also understanding that you're not always going to be in a situation
Marvin: where you can put yourself in position to make the easiest cast possible.
Marvin: So the only way to be successful is to kind of put those two things together
Marvin: to your point and kind of work on drift.
Mac: Yeah, that's definitely true. And also a shout out to Hillary out there in Montana, Hutchinson.
Mac: She went out, the same family, Brad's the daddy, and they took the kids out
Mac: there to fish with her for a week up near Glacier.
Mac: And she had sent me some messages, and she's just like, oh, my gosh.
Mac: She was blown away with the ability of her little brother and the girl.
Mac: I mean, because they were fairly new, but they just have such enthusiasm and
Mac: passion to growing that it was kind of neat to see them go out and spend a week
Mac: catching cutthroat and stuff up on the Kootenai and that area around Glacier.
Mac: So it's just kind of a cool thing
Mac: when you see that with young people like excelling like that, you know?
Mac: So it's been really fun. And I've had a lot of other just really positive experiences.
Mac: Learning, I call it learning trips because, I mean, obviously if we don't have
Mac: the drift, then we don't have any game to do what we need to do on the water.
Mac: So the mix here for the last month has been about an hour and a half,
Mac: probably of instructional staff first before even getting the water.
Mac: And that way they have a really good idea of what it is, what's the goal,
Mac: what are we trying to do, trying to attain drift, what do we do when we get
Mac: the drift, and we've got to talk about hook set.
Mac: That's for another time but the drift is what we've
Mac: been preaching for a long time living here with the college programs at
Mac: western with team usa just won gold in
Mac: the czech republic first second third individual winners and i can promise you
Mac: that's a big big sermon even for all the youth kids over the last 25 years as
Mac: they hear a lot about drift to try to make that their goal and And fish are
Mac: a byproduct of mastering drift.
Mac: I mean, it really is a byproduct. Because if we're doing that well,
Mac: then the other thing is just a gimme that you're going to have.
Mac: And so that's really the only way I know to talk about it and teach it.
Mac: I can't talk about, you know, let's go catch the big one, Marvin, and ignore drift.
Mac: Because then it's kind of a nightmare for being out there all day,
Mac: you know? It's like an accident.
Mac: Or some people call it luck. I mean, to go out and do it that way is a little
Mac: bit difficult, you know?
Marvin: Yeah. I mean, it's really kind of funny, right? You know, where if we back up
Marvin: and we focus on the process, and we talk about this a lot, right?
Marvin: If you have a good process and you're always refining process,
Marvin: you're going to consistently get better outcomes.
Mac: That's right. And that's what everybody wants is better outcomes.
Mac: So, yeah, it's been really a good, really to my surprise, I mean,
Mac: because usually summer is tourist season, and I made a post the other day about
Mac: it, and it's like usually it's tourist season.
Mac: First-timers with no clue about wanting to really learn about it just say they went and did it.
Mac: And that's not at all what I've seen. So I really think a lot of it, too,
Mac: is being in this for four decades now Now that I've kind of figured out the
Mac: people that I'm, the people that call and the people I'm getting is not like
Mac: the typical tourist trip I got 30, 40 years ago.
Mac: So I'm really thankful for that because I don't know if I could stay doing it
Mac: if it was all tourism based, you know.
Mac: That'd be a little different. It's kind of like Disneyland. Let's go ride the
Mac: small world float, you know.
Mac: So at least it's been rewarding in that regard of having people that are truly
Mac: there to try to learn something.
Marvin: Yeah. But I mean, I think it's interesting, right? Because that also gets to
Marvin: the point of, you know, there are different guides that are good at different
Marvin: things and you're at a different place in your journey from someone else.
Marvin: And that's why it's so important, you know, for anglers to try to be honest
Marvin: about where they are in their journey and what they want to accomplish and to
Marvin: try to find people to work with that are going to kind of help them along the path.
Mac: Yeah i thought about that a lot over the years too you know about the gateway
Mac: of why is you know lab and a bobber 10 feet over the side of a three thirteen
Mac: thousand dollar drift boat why is that why is that the norm or why is the euro nymphing so popular,
Mac: it's it's really because those are gateway techniques they're not like the only
Mac: technique because it goes back to the old school methods you know from like
Mac: tyverner and looking at those writings from 150 years ago where drift was grail
Mac: and all that early literature and I think that's a lot of that,
Mac: in my opinion, has been forgotten about because let's say you fish,
Mac: like what's the study that you talk about a bunch with, um, where it says that
Mac: like people go what, two times a year, like what it was at 70% or something.
Mac: I can't remember the number exactly, but, but it's something like that.
Mac: So let's say you're going two times a year, right?
Mac: And you're going to do that for 50 years and you bought you a nice setup and
Mac: you got all the gear, but you go two times a year and you've been really happy
Mac: loving something 10 feet over the side of a boat, chances are you're not going
Mac: to be concerned with drift if that's all you're doing it.
Mac: Does that make sense? Because you just don't go enough to see any difference
Mac: and you're happy with the few fish you catch from lobbing it over the side of a drift boat.
Mac: So those people might not ever go to the drift part that we're talking about,
Mac: but it doesn't mean that they're not enjoying the sport, but I think those are
Mac: gateway techniques is what I'm trying to say.
Marvin: Yeah. And the study is the, it's the study that the Recreational Boating and
Marvin: Fishing Foundation, They put out that report on fishing every year and,
Marvin: you know, the rough math and I'm pretty, I wouldn't say I'm obsessed.
Marvin: I just can, let's just say for the last 15 years, I consistently kind of read and follow that report.
Marvin: You know, 40 to 45% of people that fly fish in a given year fish one to three days.
Mac: That's right. Yeah, we got to give a shout out too to Josh, our buddy Josh Miller.
Mac: He was over there with the kids and did a fantastic job coaching them.
Mac: So congratulations to him too. I meant to say that when we talked about the
Mac: Czech Republic and the youth kids there last week so he's a wonderful coach
Mac: great for the program and that was really a,
Mac: a big milestone to go over there and dominate and.
Marvin: On top of that he's just a great human being.
Mac: He is no he really is and so that was a that was a thing to be that was really
Mac: a proud moment you know for the youth kids to go over there and do that to do
Mac: first second third is that's impressive so um but yeah i think a lot of it goes
Mac: back to drift and it's hard to say that on a podcast like Like, what's drift?
Mac: So we've got to give people something to think about with drift.
Mac: And over the last 40 years, I would say that most of the time,
Mac: people are content with something that's just not very long.
Mac: And if it's not very long, it makes it hard.
Mac: It makes it real hard. You know, they've got to go further. Further than two or three feet?
Mac: You know what I mean? Like, make it a goal. Make eight feet.
Mac: Make 10 feet in complex currents.
Mac: What if we say put it in at the top of the pool? Let's try to go 30 feet.
Mac: All those things have a skill set. All those things require more line control than before.
Mac: You know what I mean? And so that's really the goal. If we just make drift the
Mac: grail, then, of course, just get with somebody who talks to you about Marvin. Let's go 16 feet.
Mac: Let's go 20 feet. And then once you start seeing how that's done and start implementing
Mac: that into your game, then everything else is a byproduct of having drift.
Mac: And it's like that's the hardest thing when you fish. Like when do you want to pick it up?
Mac: Do you want to feed it out? I mean, I have a friend here when I moved here back
Mac: in the mid-'80s, and he loves to go smallmouth and trout both,
Mac: but he does some of the longest drifts I've ever seen anywhere in the world.
Mac: When I fish with him, I'm like, what are you doing? He goes,
Mac: well, I'm paying line out.
Mac: Like when we smallmouth fish, he'll go at the whole double taper length every
Mac: time he does a drift with a popper.
Mac: That's how long he likes to go, and he catches some really, really impressive
Mac: smallmouth by doing that.
Mac: But it's not a little 10-, 15-foot drift. He usually goes about 80 or 90 feet.
Mac: And I mean, that's a big part of why it's successful.
Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and as we get closer to pumpkin spice latte season,
Marvin: you know, it also means we're getting closer to school season.
Marvin: What can folks look forward to on the kind of the clinic and the school front, Mac?
Mac: We've got a school still in October. The casting school filled out in September, so it's been full.
Mac: We've still got an opening there in October, like a one spot,
Mac: I think, for October, and I think November's got maybe two.
Mac: And that's it. That's it. Then I go to the White River to talk to Davey Walton's
Mac: club in Mountain Home early November.
Mac: I'm looking forward to that. I'm going to spend a week down there,
Mac: and that's a three-day event.
Mac: And then I get to fish the white for four days, So I'm looking forward to getting
Mac: down there on the light again.
Marvin: Yeah, well, there you go. And where should folks go if they want to learn more
Marvin: about the schools, maybe get on a wait list or get a casting lesson or spend
Marvin: a day with you on the water?
Mac: Probably the easiest is my website, macbrownflyfish.com. And that way,
Mac: that's the easiest place.
Mac: And that's what the name is, too, the message on social media stuff, Instagram, Facebook.
Mac: They can message me on one of those, too, and I'll get it. so that's probably the best.
Marvin: Yeah well there you go and you know folks as i say uh you owe it yourself to
Marvin: get out there and catch a few tight lines everybody tight lines mac tight lines marvin.