Marvin: Hey folks it's marvin cash the host of the articulate fly we're back with another

Marvin: casting angles with mac brown mac how are you i'm.

Mac: Doing great how are you marvin.

Marvin: As always i'm just trying to stay out of trouble and you know i think we were

Marvin: talking before we started recording that i think cool weather may be coming

Marvin: early to the mid-atlantic it.

Mac: Is it's it's been really nice in the evening up here, and we're starting to

Mac: get down in the 50s, like upper 50s, and I think they're calling by the end

Mac: of the week we're going to be down in the low 50s, which will feel kind of like

Mac: fall again. So that'll be nice.

Marvin: Yeah, I'm eager for anything we can do to get this humidity out of here.

Marvin: It's been too muggy this summer.

Mac: It has. It's been a hot summer. I mean, even for here, we spent a lot of days

Mac: in the upper 80s, which I don't remember a lot of summers.

Mac: Summers i've moved up here in 87 1987 and

Mac: i don't think i remember many summers where we stayed in the upper 80s like

Mac: we did this summer so it's been hotter than normal and so i'm looking forward

Mac: to definitely getting cooled off and having a lot better cool cool mornings

Mac: it's going to really help with the rain the last four days we've had pretty pretty good rainfall,

Mac: not like blowout kind of rainfall but just enough to keep cooling the waters

Mac: and give the grass and plants some some liquid we went about four or five weeks

Mac: with no rain so it's been really nice yeah.

Marvin: And so you know obviously we've got you know six weeks before the stocking truck

Marvin: shows up what are you seeing on the water.

Mac: We've been going after a lot of browns up in the mostly in the national park

Mac: and uh we've been we've been doing a lot of brown trout fishing with terrestrials

Mac: the last uh month has really been full of doing that with chasing browns.

Mac: It's like inchworms, ants, beetles.

Mac: That's pretty much all we've thrown. We've not thrown any aquatic type flies

Mac: for the last month. Everything's been terrestrial stuff.

Mac: That's been a lot of fun early in the morning at daylight, starting at 6.30

Mac: and we're pretty much done by 11 every morning. The brown trout fishing's been really fun.

Marvin: Yeah. It's funny too, because I would say like the beetle is my secret weapon

Marvin: on the South Holston when all those guys are trying to do the little itty bitty

Marvin: fiddly mayflies, either a small beetle or like a June bug submerged to me has

Marvin: always been the way to get out of jail.

Mac: Yeah, I mean, it really does call out those predatory fish, like to see a beetle.

Mac: I mean, it's kind of funny, like the numbers of fish the last month have all

Mac: been, I don't think we've had but a handful of rainbows.

Mac: But rainbow don't like the water temp like where it is right now.

Mac: They're as easy as brown trout will see through it, you know.

Mac: And it's like rainbow will get good again in the fall.

Mac: So it just is kind of a natural progression this

Mac: time of year to focus in on browns you know a lot

Mac: of people will say go up high try to catch brook trout

Mac: but even that up high with it as hot as it's been you know that's going to suffer

Mac: because brook trout really don't like that kind of hot water either so the only

Mac: natural thing we've got rainbows browns and brooks we got a lot of you know

Mac: wild brook trout but the only natural thing to be going for in my opinion is

Mac: chasing browns up high Because, I mean,

Mac: if you want to have good fishery, the water temp, I mean, in the morning still,

Mac: we're still sitting in the low 60s in the morning, like 60, 61 degrees.

Mac: By the time 11 o'clock rolls around, it'll get up and start knocking right up 66 to 67.

Mac: And that's when it's time to quit. But between that 60 degree margin to 65,

Mac: I mean, the fish have been really happy with terrestrials.

Mac: So that's a good, a good ticker. yeah.

Marvin: And you know you were telling me too that you've had you know a really rewarding

Marvin: last month or so on the teaching front as well.

Mac: Oh it's been it's been fabulous so many so many people that that have showed

Mac: up just with the intent of trying to figure out this whole game of fly fishing

Mac: and that's what we figured would would maybe talk about tonight is to make drift,

Mac: to make drift the grail and it's like these people that are brand new are doing

Mac: things like Like just really quick because we always start off with some instructional

Mac: stuff for about an hour about foundational movement and how to form a loop and

Mac: how to make it do what they want. But it's been really amazing.

Mac: I had just so many.

Mac: The biggest one that comes to mind is 11-year-old girl from Atlanta that came with her daddy.

Mac: And it's like we were doing aerial reach men's and curves, you know, 40, 50 feet.

Mac: And she's just got a big smile on her face. And she's 11 years old.

Mac: She's doing stuff that a lot of people would call advanced. and she did all

Mac: that in under 25 minutes.

Mac: And it's just like, it's so rewarding as a teacher to see brand new people doing

Mac: what people would deem advanced but they've only been doing it for 25 minutes, you know?

Mac: It's a lot easier to train people like that that are newer because they don't have lots of habits.

Mac: And it's hard to break and learn new things when they already have a habit of

Mac: how to deliver something, you know?

Mac: So that's been a real rewarding thing.

Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting too, because you and I talk about this all the time,

Marvin: about having a focus on, you know, why we do what we do, right?

Marvin: And how that makes it easier to kind of learn how to be a better angler.

Marvin: I mean, it's true for lots of different things, but, you know,

Marvin: you and I were talking before we started recording about, you know,

Marvin: understanding like how you want the fly to behave.

Marvin: And then also understanding that you're not always going to be in a situation

Marvin: where you can put yourself in position to make the easiest cast possible.

Marvin: So the only way to be successful is to kind of put those two things together

Marvin: to your point and kind of work on drift.

Mac: Yeah, that's definitely true. And also a shout out to Hillary out there in Montana, Hutchinson.

Mac: She went out, the same family, Brad's the daddy, and they took the kids out

Mac: there to fish with her for a week up near Glacier.

Mac: And she had sent me some messages, and she's just like, oh, my gosh.

Mac: She was blown away with the ability of her little brother and the girl.

Mac: I mean, because they were fairly new, but they just have such enthusiasm and

Mac: passion to growing that it was kind of neat to see them go out and spend a week

Mac: catching cutthroat and stuff up on the Kootenai and that area around Glacier.

Mac: So it's just kind of a cool thing

Mac: when you see that with young people like excelling like that, you know?

Mac: So it's been really fun. And I've had a lot of other just really positive experiences.

Mac: Learning, I call it learning trips because, I mean, obviously if we don't have

Mac: the drift, then we don't have any game to do what we need to do on the water.

Mac: So the mix here for the last month has been about an hour and a half,

Mac: probably of instructional staff first before even getting the water.

Mac: And that way they have a really good idea of what it is, what's the goal,

Mac: what are we trying to do, trying to attain drift, what do we do when we get

Mac: the drift, and we've got to talk about hook set.

Mac: That's for another time but the drift is what we've

Mac: been preaching for a long time living here with the college programs at

Mac: western with team usa just won gold in

Mac: the czech republic first second third individual winners and i can promise you

Mac: that's a big big sermon even for all the youth kids over the last 25 years as

Mac: they hear a lot about drift to try to make that their goal and And fish are

Mac: a byproduct of mastering drift.

Mac: I mean, it really is a byproduct. Because if we're doing that well,

Mac: then the other thing is just a gimme that you're going to have.

Mac: And so that's really the only way I know to talk about it and teach it.

Mac: I can't talk about, you know, let's go catch the big one, Marvin, and ignore drift.

Mac: Because then it's kind of a nightmare for being out there all day,

Mac: you know? It's like an accident.

Mac: Or some people call it luck. I mean, to go out and do it that way is a little

Mac: bit difficult, you know?

Marvin: Yeah. I mean, it's really kind of funny, right? You know, where if we back up

Marvin: and we focus on the process, and we talk about this a lot, right?

Marvin: If you have a good process and you're always refining process,

Marvin: you're going to consistently get better outcomes.

Mac: That's right. And that's what everybody wants is better outcomes.

Mac: So, yeah, it's been really a good, really to my surprise, I mean,

Mac: because usually summer is tourist season, and I made a post the other day about

Mac: it, and it's like usually it's tourist season.

Mac: First-timers with no clue about wanting to really learn about it just say they went and did it.

Mac: And that's not at all what I've seen. So I really think a lot of it, too,

Mac: is being in this for four decades now Now that I've kind of figured out the

Mac: people that I'm, the people that call and the people I'm getting is not like

Mac: the typical tourist trip I got 30, 40 years ago.

Mac: So I'm really thankful for that because I don't know if I could stay doing it

Mac: if it was all tourism based, you know.

Mac: That'd be a little different. It's kind of like Disneyland. Let's go ride the

Mac: small world float, you know.

Mac: So at least it's been rewarding in that regard of having people that are truly

Mac: there to try to learn something.

Marvin: Yeah. But I mean, I think it's interesting, right? Because that also gets to

Marvin: the point of, you know, there are different guides that are good at different

Marvin: things and you're at a different place in your journey from someone else.

Marvin: And that's why it's so important, you know, for anglers to try to be honest

Marvin: about where they are in their journey and what they want to accomplish and to

Marvin: try to find people to work with that are going to kind of help them along the path.

Mac: Yeah i thought about that a lot over the years too you know about the gateway

Mac: of why is you know lab and a bobber 10 feet over the side of a three thirteen

Mac: thousand dollar drift boat why is that why is that the norm or why is the euro nymphing so popular,

Mac: it's it's really because those are gateway techniques they're not like the only

Mac: technique because it goes back to the old school methods you know from like

Mac: tyverner and looking at those writings from 150 years ago where drift was grail

Mac: and all that early literature and I think that's a lot of that,

Mac: in my opinion, has been forgotten about because let's say you fish,

Mac: like what's the study that you talk about a bunch with, um, where it says that

Mac: like people go what, two times a year, like what it was at 70% or something.

Mac: I can't remember the number exactly, but, but it's something like that.

Mac: So let's say you're going two times a year, right?

Mac: And you're going to do that for 50 years and you bought you a nice setup and

Mac: you got all the gear, but you go two times a year and you've been really happy

Mac: loving something 10 feet over the side of a boat, chances are you're not going

Mac: to be concerned with drift if that's all you're doing it.

Mac: Does that make sense? Because you just don't go enough to see any difference

Mac: and you're happy with the few fish you catch from lobbing it over the side of a drift boat.

Mac: So those people might not ever go to the drift part that we're talking about,

Mac: but it doesn't mean that they're not enjoying the sport, but I think those are

Mac: gateway techniques is what I'm trying to say.

Marvin: Yeah. And the study is the, it's the study that the Recreational Boating and

Marvin: Fishing Foundation, They put out that report on fishing every year and,

Marvin: you know, the rough math and I'm pretty, I wouldn't say I'm obsessed.

Marvin: I just can, let's just say for the last 15 years, I consistently kind of read and follow that report.

Marvin: You know, 40 to 45% of people that fly fish in a given year fish one to three days.

Mac: That's right. Yeah, we got to give a shout out too to Josh, our buddy Josh Miller.

Mac: He was over there with the kids and did a fantastic job coaching them.

Mac: So congratulations to him too. I meant to say that when we talked about the

Mac: Czech Republic and the youth kids there last week so he's a wonderful coach

Mac: great for the program and that was really a,

Mac: a big milestone to go over there and dominate and.

Marvin: On top of that he's just a great human being.

Mac: He is no he really is and so that was a that was a thing to be that was really

Mac: a proud moment you know for the youth kids to go over there and do that to do

Mac: first second third is that's impressive so um but yeah i think a lot of it goes

Mac: back to drift and it's hard to say that on a podcast like Like, what's drift?

Mac: So we've got to give people something to think about with drift.

Mac: And over the last 40 years, I would say that most of the time,

Mac: people are content with something that's just not very long.

Mac: And if it's not very long, it makes it hard.

Mac: It makes it real hard. You know, they've got to go further. Further than two or three feet?

Mac: You know what I mean? Like, make it a goal. Make eight feet.

Mac: Make 10 feet in complex currents.

Mac: What if we say put it in at the top of the pool? Let's try to go 30 feet.

Mac: All those things have a skill set. All those things require more line control than before.

Mac: You know what I mean? And so that's really the goal. If we just make drift the

Mac: grail, then, of course, just get with somebody who talks to you about Marvin. Let's go 16 feet.

Mac: Let's go 20 feet. And then once you start seeing how that's done and start implementing

Mac: that into your game, then everything else is a byproduct of having drift.

Mac: And it's like that's the hardest thing when you fish. Like when do you want to pick it up?

Mac: Do you want to feed it out? I mean, I have a friend here when I moved here back

Mac: in the mid-'80s, and he loves to go smallmouth and trout both,

Mac: but he does some of the longest drifts I've ever seen anywhere in the world.

Mac: When I fish with him, I'm like, what are you doing? He goes,

Mac: well, I'm paying line out.

Mac: Like when we smallmouth fish, he'll go at the whole double taper length every

Mac: time he does a drift with a popper.

Mac: That's how long he likes to go, and he catches some really, really impressive

Mac: smallmouth by doing that.

Mac: But it's not a little 10-, 15-foot drift. He usually goes about 80 or 90 feet.

Mac: And I mean, that's a big part of why it's successful.

Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and as we get closer to pumpkin spice latte season,

Marvin: you know, it also means we're getting closer to school season.

Marvin: What can folks look forward to on the kind of the clinic and the school front, Mac?

Mac: We've got a school still in October. The casting school filled out in September, so it's been full.

Mac: We've still got an opening there in October, like a one spot,

Mac: I think, for October, and I think November's got maybe two.

Mac: And that's it. That's it. Then I go to the White River to talk to Davey Walton's

Mac: club in Mountain Home early November.

Mac: I'm looking forward to that. I'm going to spend a week down there,

Mac: and that's a three-day event.

Mac: And then I get to fish the white for four days, So I'm looking forward to getting

Mac: down there on the light again.

Marvin: Yeah, well, there you go. And where should folks go if they want to learn more

Marvin: about the schools, maybe get on a wait list or get a casting lesson or spend

Marvin: a day with you on the water?

Mac: Probably the easiest is my website, macbrownflyfish.com. And that way,

Mac: that's the easiest place.

Mac: And that's what the name is, too, the message on social media stuff, Instagram, Facebook.

Mac: They can message me on one of those, too, and I'll get it. so that's probably the best.

Marvin: Yeah well there you go and you know folks as i say uh you owe it yourself to

Marvin: get out there and catch a few tight lines everybody tight lines mac tight lines marvin.