1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,760 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn from the founder of a company that processes $4 billion in transactions a 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,820 Kevin Mako: year on the importance and the methods of payment processing for small product businesses. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:22,260 Narrator: You're listening to the Product Startup Podcast, the show that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, 4 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:30,940 Narrator: product developers, manufacturers, and hardware industry professionals. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial 5 00:00:30,940 --> 00:00:39,440 Narrator: idea to getting your product. on store shelves. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product 6 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:45,120 Narrator: business. Hosted by Kevin Mako, one of North America's leading experts on hardware development 7 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,840 Kevin Mako: for small product businesses. 8 00:00:47,500 --> 00:00:55,380 Kevin Mako: Now, onto the show. Welcome back, everyone. Today I'm very excited to introduce Nic Beique to the show. Nick is the founder and CEO of Helcim, a North American payment 9 00:00:55,380 --> 00:01:03,380 Kevin Mako: processing company that has over 10,000 small business clients and processes over $4 billion in transactions per year. In fact, MacuDesign is one of their clients. 10 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:07,800 Kevin Mako: Today, Nick is going to share some valuable knowledge in how inventors, startups, and small manufacturers should understand 11 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:15,120 Kevin Mako: the importance of payment processing and how to best use it to improve the experience for both your end customers and your business-to-business wholesale transactions. 12 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:16,380 Kevin Mako: Now on to the episode. 13 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,120 Kevin Mako: Hey, Nick, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Much appreciated. Happy to have you on. We've been 14 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:27,140 Kevin Mako: working with you for years now as MacoDesigns using you guys for our payment methods. And I thought 15 00:01:27,140 --> 00:01:30,780 Kevin Mako: it was quite important to bring you on the show today to talk about this is this is one of the 16 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:38,480 Kevin Mako: things where a lot of small manufacturers, especially inventors as they're starting up and getting their business off the ground, they don't think about until they need it. 17 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:44,540 Kevin Mako: And payment processing is a part of the equation on getting a business, especially a hardware business, off the ground. 18 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:50,800 Nic Beique: So I appreciate you joining the show. Oh, thanks for having me. And I mean, I love talking about payments all day. I live and breathe payments. 19 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:59,160 Nic Beique: And on the surface payments doesn't always sound super interesting, but you pretty quickly realize that it's really like the heartbeat of how a business 20 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:05,140 Nic Beique: function and it just becomes this huge. Like, if you think about the Maslow's hierarchy of needs 21 00:02:05,140 --> 00:02:12,440 Nic Beique: of a business, like payments is pretty low on the bottom before you get into, you know, fancy software or things like that, right? 22 00:02:12,940 --> 00:02:18,700 Kevin Mako: So we get to come in pretty early, which is great. Yeah, it's great. And you've done a lot of things to kind of improve and enable and smooth 23 00:02:18,700 --> 00:02:24,600 Kevin Mako: that whole process out, especially for small businesses, which is the key. It's amazing that you focus on that. 24 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:33,080 Kevin Mako: Much like Mako Design focused on global caliber design for small businesses and startups, you do the same thing with payment processing, and that's why we're really happy to 25 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:39,700 Kevin Mako: have you as a partner. And of course, to invite you on the show here. First and foremost, let's just talk overall, what is payment processing? 26 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,220 Kevin Mako: And then we'll talk about why it's important and then 27 00:02:42,220 --> 00:02:49,000 Nic Beique: tips and tricks for people setting that up for their businesses. Yeah, sounds great. So I mean, at minimum payments, you know, businesses need to get paid. 28 00:02:49,140 --> 00:02:55,700 Nic Beique: It's part of your cash flow. You need to, you can build the most amazing product, you know, have the most amazing idea. But you're going to get 29 00:02:55,700 --> 00:03:05,340 Nic Beique: to a point where all of a sudden, somebody finally says yes and wants to do an order from you, however that looks, whether that's online or wholesale order or whatever is the case, 30 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,480 Nic Beique: right? And you're going to sit there and going, okay, wait a second. How do I make this transaction 31 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:18,980 Kevin Mako: actually happen and be smooth? It's the glue to once you have the agreement and the payments are there. You want to bring those two together and you want to do it. 32 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,380 Kevin Mako: The key is you want to do it as seamless as possible. You don't want to make it difficult for your customer who's agreed to 33 00:03:24,380 --> 00:03:30,060 Nic Beique: purchase from you to actually make that transaction take place. Exactly. You don't want, 34 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Nic Beique: you know, if any type of friction is an excuse for the agreement to fall apart, right? And it's also, 35 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:47,420 Nic Beique: when you're a small business, you also get into, I don't know if you've heard, like, small business posturing where you're trying to kind of establish yourself maybe a little bit, 36 00:03:47,460 --> 00:03:54,000 Nic Beique: to seem a little bit more big or reliable than you are because you're trying to portray a certain element of trust, right? 37 00:03:54,500 --> 00:04:01,520 Nic Beique: Like, it's, it's sometimes you don't want the customer, you know, say they're doing that first 20,000 order from you. You don't necessarily want to tell them, 38 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:07,160 Nic Beique: hey, I've never done this before. I don't know how to accept the payment from you. Like, that might send some jitters, right? 39 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,220 Nic Beique: So you want to have a smooth process, including, you know, the way you're accepting your payments. 40 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:21,340 Kevin Mako: So it looks like you've done this a thousand times before and it brings that certain comfort. Yeah, absolutely. Makes it quick and easy. Looks great. Professionalism, all the rest. 41 00:04:21,340 --> 00:04:27,320 Kevin Mako: And we're going to talk about the different types. of it today as well. Nick, why don't you just run through the difference between direct to consumer 42 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:33,500 Kevin Mako: online purchasing, direct to business, like a B2B transactions that occur in your business. And 43 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:38,780 Kevin Mako: then the difference between obviously credit card payments, non-credit card payments, and of course in store payments across all of those. 44 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:45,460 Kevin Mako: Just kind of break it up and give a description of all. And then let's jump into each of them and describe some of the best practices and the things that you 45 00:04:45,460 --> 00:04:49,860 Kevin Mako: as a hardware startup or as a small manufacturer should really be making sure that you're doing 46 00:04:49,860 --> 00:04:55,720 Nic Beique: to smooth that lubrication, smooth the joints between a customer agreeing to pay and that payment actually going through. 47 00:04:55,860 --> 00:05:05,420 Nic Beique: If you zoom out a little bit, the lines are getting really blurred between what is a kind of B2B, B2C business on that front, because I think that everyone expects to 48 00:05:05,420 --> 00:05:13,720 Nic Beique: be treated like a consumer in a sense of everyone expects a really smooth experience, regardless of they're making a business purchase or a purchase as a consumer, right? 49 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:22,240 Nic Beique: And then also the line between what is an online transaction, what is an, you know, what is a in-person transaction, like 50 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,240 Nic Beique: for example, okay, if you walk into a store and you make a purchase, that's pretty obvious, right? 51 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:32,980 Nic Beique: But what if somebody sends you an invoice and sends that invoice, you know, on your phone? Is that in person? Is that online? 52 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:41,020 Nic Beique: Is it, you know, or you purchase, you make an e-commerce purchase, but you're not actually paying on the spot. You're just doing like a purchase order. 53 00:05:41,340 --> 00:05:48,220 Nic Beique: You know, is that, you know, what is that, right? So what we found with our customers, and we service over 10,000 small 54 00:05:48,220 --> 00:05:54,440 Nic Beique: businesses across North America, 80% of them are doing transactions from multiple points. 55 00:05:54,460 --> 00:06:02,840 Nic Beique: So that's like a mixture of in-person, online, invoicing, recurring, it doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter what the industry is. So that includes builders. 56 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,460 Nic Beique: Like we're seeing that whatever is the best payment 57 00:06:07,460 --> 00:06:13,700 Kevin Mako: method or the best flow that you can create in the moment for that particular customer, just go for it. 58 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:19,310 Kevin Mako: right as opposed to like we only do transactions this way yeah there's nothing more frustrating when 59 00:06:19,310 --> 00:06:23,990 Kevin Mako: you're going especially if it's a small ticket price item and there's only one very specific method that 60 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:33,410 Kevin Mako: you can use and that's quite common in the startup world because as a small business right the first thing that you can do is accept a check and that's if you've got your banking 61 00:06:33,410 --> 00:06:40,290 Kevin Mako: even set up and all of that right to accept inbound payments and you set up your quickbooks for it or whatever else and it can 62 00:06:40,290 --> 00:06:49,490 Kevin Mako: become very difficult for purchasers especially if you're doing with smaller tickets or regular purchases for them to understand why, not only are they taking a gamble on you 63 00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:55,390 Kevin Mako: as a newer product in the market as a less known brand, but as well, why are you making the payment process difficult? 64 00:06:55,650 --> 00:07:03,470 Kevin Mako: And the unfortunate thing there is it's so easy to set it up properly if you plan for it in advance, which is obviously what we're talking about here on the show, 65 00:07:04,210 --> 00:07:10,610 Kevin Mako: that as a user, you can, as a user, you can easily be given all of the options. And as the small 66 00:07:10,610 --> 00:07:15,050 Kevin Mako: business, as long as you plan for it in advance, and you're working with a company like 67 00:07:15,050 --> 00:07:20,830 Nic Beique: Helcim, they can manage all of the different payment methods for you so that you just 68 00:07:20,830 --> 00:07:26,510 Nic Beique: focus on selling and allow the customer to purchase it in whatever way is easiest or most convenient for them at that time. 69 00:07:27,170 --> 00:07:34,410 Nic Beique: Exactly. And I think for us, I mean, we really started off as offering credit card payments and then we started offering debit car payments. And then we recently 70 00:07:34,410 --> 00:07:39,370 Nic Beique: started offering bank payments as well. So that means that you can automatically debit payments out 71 00:07:39,370 --> 00:07:49,030 Nic Beique: of your customers bank account, whether they are in Canada or the US, it doesn't matter. It's automatic because in the end, you'll be surprised, especially if you're a 72 00:07:49,030 --> 00:07:55,650 Nic Beique: maker and you're dealing more on, say, on the wholesale side and bulk orders, you'll be really surprised 73 00:07:55,650 --> 00:08:02,600 Nic Beique: about how some purchasers are going to be like, oh, we only do credit card. And then some of them are like, we don't do credit card. 74 00:08:02,740 --> 00:08:09,380 Nic Beique: We only do, you know, bank payments or whatever. And you're like, oh, I had it set up, you know, because it was simple for me. 75 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:16,860 Nic Beique: me, but now all of a sudden my customer is asking for something totally different. And once again, I don't want to add friction to that sale. I just want it to be smooth. 76 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:17,800 Nic Beique: I want to get, you know, 77 00:08:18,460 --> 00:08:23,680 Nic Beique: my cash so that I can then, you know, make this order and get it sent out, right? So having a payments 78 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:30,880 Nic Beique: partner that can offer a wide range of payment types, not just the way that you accept them, but even the payment types themselves is crucial. 79 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:38,220 Nic Beique: And even on the, you know, you would think that even for in-person payments, you know, you think about a little card reader and things like that. You're like, oh, that's not 80 00:08:38,220 --> 00:08:41,920 Nic Beique: for me, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to do wholesale or whatever is the case, right? 81 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,040 Nic Beique: And all of a sudden, you're like, you have this opportunity in front of you, there's a trade show, there's something. You're like, you know what? 82 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:53,920 Nic Beique: It wouldn't really good to have a little machine on the spot there just to do little, you know, little orders or things like that. And what's really, 83 00:08:54,180 --> 00:09:02,160 Nic Beique: what we've done with our service is that you're not bottleneck. Like when you go with the traditional processor, like when you think about the old school kind of banks, 84 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:09,480 Nic Beique: right? They kind of bottleneck you into like one account. They'll ask you right up from that's like the first question they ask like, hey, are you a retail store or are you online? 85 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:12,020 Nic Beique: You're like, well, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure yet, right? 86 00:09:12,740 --> 00:09:20,600 Nic Beique: But they make you choose. And then you can't process payments anything but in that very narrow way. Versus with our service, what we did is like, it's just, you just have 87 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,520 Nic Beique: a healthsome account. And however you want, you know, all those tools are included. 88 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,920 Kevin Mako: You can order a little card reader anytime you want. You don't need to set like a different account or anything like that. 89 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:37,420 Kevin Mako: And anytime you're ready, just accept payments, whatever works for you that day. And I think that's, I think the world is going in that direction. 90 00:09:37,980 --> 00:09:39,140 Kevin Mako: You don't want that friction anymore. 91 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:48,320 Kevin Mako: Oh, absolutely. You want to make it easier for your customer. At the end of the day, as well, most of the listeners here have a product that's proprietary, that's unique, 92 00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:54,380 Kevin Mako: that's high value, generally higher margin. They're not competing strictly as a commodity 93 00:09:54,380 --> 00:10:00,860 Kevin Mako: where, you know, shaving 1% here is going to make the difference between sale or no sale. And in fact, we tout a lot on the show. 94 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:08,880 Kevin Mako: You know, you should be selling value. Your product should be premium if you've got new and proprietary features, which is the case with most 95 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,520 Kevin Mako: inventors and most of these new innovations. 96 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:19,080 Kevin Mako: So I think it becomes increasingly more important not to be cheap and to try and shave that money, especially if it's small ticket price. 97 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:25,860 Kevin Mako: If you're talking, you know, $20 to $200 or $300 orders and it's to the end consumer, 98 00:10:26,820 --> 00:10:33,640 Kevin Mako: absolutely you should not be concerned about the small amount of fees. And I think we should get into that and talk about that a bit too so that people understand 99 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:37,880 Kevin Mako: where the fees come from. But even if you're looking at the wholesale transactions, especially as 100 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,000 Kevin Mako: a startup as you get going, if it costs you a little bit of money, a tiny fraction of that 101 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,000 Kevin Mako: order to get it and have the money in the account and for that to be seamless, even if it is 102 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,840 Kevin Mako: a $100,000 order and, you know, that couple of percent or whatever ends up being, ends up being 103 00:10:52,840 --> 00:11:02,060 Kevin Mako: a fairly substantial size that they wanted to pay on credit card, well, what's the cost of obtaining that capital early or ensuring that deal went through or just making the 104 00:11:02,060 --> 00:11:07,180 Kevin Mako: customer feel like you, you know, a level of professionalism or that you're not trying to penny pinch on every order. 105 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:14,560 Kevin Mako: If you're so pinched on your first production runs on margins that tight, then you've got other problems which are much bigger than your payment processing. 106 00:11:15,020 --> 00:11:24,300 Kevin Mako: But definitely don't think about the order and what would happen if you've lost that order, especially if it's a first order or a new customer or whatever else 107 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:29,780 Kevin Mako: or maybe the first order of a new product for an existing customer, the easier you can make that transaction. 108 00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:33,440 Kevin Mako: As we all know in business, sometimes it comes down to, you know, tilt, 109 00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:37,660 Nic Beique: the odds by just a tiny fraction of a hair, which was the difference between a go and a no-go. 110 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:43,900 Nic Beique: And that's where I really like the idea of making it as smooth as possible for your customers to pay in whatever way they want possible. 111 00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:51,900 Nic Beique: So now let's jump into the, you know, since I brought it up in any case, just dump into the fees and just kind of an explanation between, you know, 112 00:11:52,020 --> 00:11:59,240 Nic Beique: B to C fees, B to B bank versus credit cards, different types of credit cards and so on. Yeah. So the fees is something we don't, we don't shy away from. 113 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:06,660 Nic Beique: So, you know, for us as a payments company, there's like three big pillars that we felt in order to really stand out and be the best. 114 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:12,720 Nic Beique: Like our mission is to be the world's most love payments company, right? And like there's three big pillars we had to meet. 115 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:21,820 Nic Beique: We had to have exceptional customer service because it matters, right? Like if you're crossing a $100,000 order and you want to know that you can, like this is your 116 00:12:21,820 --> 00:12:25,680 Nic Beique: business. This is a financial service. Like you want to know you want to pick up the phone. You can 117 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:32,360 Nic Beique: pick up the phone and talk to somebody that's competent that cares, that's, you know, that that is with your business, right? 118 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:40,880 Nic Beique: Not, you know, a lot of times you see these kind of fintech companies where, like, customer service gets in the way of, you know, their growth, so they don't really 119 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:48,100 Nic Beique: bother. And you're like, yeah, but it kind of really matters to SMBs. Like, it's, it's, it's their livelihood, right? So customer service is one of our pillars. 120 00:12:48,540 --> 00:12:57,860 Nic Beique: The second one is digital first. So we want to make a service that, you know, no paperwork instant. It felt great. You know, it had all the tools kind of cooked in, right? 121 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:04,080 Nic Beique: Not like those old school kind of bank services, right? And then finally, it was low rates. Like that really, really matters to us. 122 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:12,140 Nic Beique: The way we were able to achieve that, like, how do we, how do we offer really low processing rates to our, to our SMB customers while 123 00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:20,180 Nic Beique: still having, you know, margins where we can operate our business? And the way we did is that we built all of our, all of our technology right 124 00:13:20,180 --> 00:13:29,140 Nic Beique: on top of the rails directly, you know, without needing, you know, third parties, right? But low rates, rates matter. Because if you're, I completely agree with what 125 00:13:29,140 --> 00:13:36,120 Nic Beique: you said in terms of like you want to think about your if you get too um if you get too restrictive 126 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:45,100 Nic Beique: in trying to process that transaction like I only take cash or I only take a check or things like that you got to put yourself in the shoes of your customer and and be like that 127 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:51,000 Nic Beique: person however they order from you is going to think hey if that was a really smooth maybe next time I'll go with them 128 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:59,220 Nic Beique: again because it's just the easiest they didn't they didn't make me jump through all these loops they just let me make a purchase right but on the other side with the SMB 129 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:05,560 Nic Beique: like it is still their cash flow, it matters. You know, they want to feel like they are paying something that's affordable and they're 130 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:09,180 Nic Beique: not being, you know, nickel and dined or, you know, you see that a lot, again, with, you know, 131 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:16,890 Nic Beique: if they think about the PayPal's and things like that, you're paying 3% or 3.5% of things that and you're like, okay, this is getting a little bit, you know, hairy, right? 132 00:14:17,010 --> 00:14:22,130 Nic Beique: So we really focus on offering low rates, and we do that through something called Interchange Plus. 133 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:28,350 Nic Beique: So it's essentially, we actually show you the true cost with Visa Mask card on different 134 00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:34,770 Nic Beique: different payment methods, and then we actually show you our margin, and the more you process, the more our margin goes down. So it's super transparent. 135 00:14:34,990 --> 00:14:40,090 Nic Beique: You essentially, you know what our cost is, you know what our margin is, you know exactly what you're paying. And then that's actually 136 00:14:40,090 --> 00:14:45,170 Nic Beique: one reason why we brought on bank payments too, is that bank payments are a lot cheaper. They're half 137 00:14:45,170 --> 00:14:54,450 Kevin Mako: a percent versus the average credit card transaction will be in the two to two and a half percent, right? So it allows you to have another payment method if 138 00:14:54,450 --> 00:15:03,430 Kevin Mako: your customer is happy to do a bank transaction where you can get to reduce your transaction fees even more. And we see that used a lot with like big orders. 139 00:15:03,570 --> 00:15:05,450 Kevin Mako: You know, like you said, 50,000, 100,000. 140 00:15:06,530 --> 00:15:12,210 Kevin Mako: And then all of a sudden you're paying a whole lot lesser transaction, yet you're still making it very smooth, very seamless, very digital. 141 00:15:12,730 --> 00:15:19,070 Kevin Mako: Yeah, the nice thing is you can also have your cake and eat it too. You can start with, like we were talking about earlier, new customers or maybe new orders 142 00:15:19,070 --> 00:15:26,150 Kevin Mako: or initial deposits or whatever else. You could maybe allow that to be on the credit cards and whatnot. And of course, once you've built up the trust and you've got 143 00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:32,550 Kevin Mako: time or whatever else, especially on the bigger orders, then maybe you switch over to the bank method or whatnot. 144 00:15:32,750 --> 00:15:40,690 Kevin Mako: But just keep in mind that sometimes your customers have certain restrictions. For instance, a credit card is just that. It's providing that the buyer with actual credit. 145 00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:46,150 Kevin Mako: So although it may seem easy to you to ask for a bank wire because it's slightly less 146 00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:53,430 Kevin Mako: expensive than it would be for a credit card, know that on the other side, maybe they don't have that access to cash at this exact moment. 147 00:15:53,530 --> 00:16:00,870 Kevin Mako: Maybe they're using the credit card as a buffer, 30 or 45-day buffer in order for them to get their payments in on the other side. 148 00:16:01,450 --> 00:16:07,970 Kevin Mako: So you have to really think about the reason why you're paying those fees. And also, I think something that's really important, just for those who don't understand, 149 00:16:08,170 --> 00:16:14,050 Kevin Mako: Nick, is that the credit card companies take most of the profit, especially when you get into the Amex and that sort of stuff, right? 150 00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:22,890 Kevin Mako: They charge a fee to the payment processors, which obviously has to flow through. And the fee is pretty substantial, as you see once you're dealing with one of these agreements 151 00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:29,670 Kevin Mako: on the back end. And of course, that's for the credit card companies to, assume their risk, both for them to run a business, but for them to assume the risk of 152 00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:34,650 Kevin Mako: the default on the credit and obviously marketing and all the rest and the technology that goes along with it. 153 00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:44,350 Kevin Mako: But the point is, is that you really need to think about your customer and make sure that if that is a pillar that you're going to push back on to require one thing or another, 154 00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:48,950 Kevin Mako: maybe think about doing it further down the pipeline, further down the trust cycle with them, 155 00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:59,370 Nic Beique: as opposed to up front, especially when you're looking at your B2C, your direct customers, because they expect the same treatment on your website that they get on Amazon when 156 00:16:59,370 --> 00:17:07,190 Nic Beique: it comes to payment processing. Amazon gives you every option under the sun. So do they expect if they're ordering directly through your website, they expect the same in return. 157 00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:15,370 Nic Beique: The beauty of that, too, is if you are doing it directly through your website, you're not paying all the fees that go through an intermediary or a marketplace like Amazon. 158 00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:22,470 Nic Beique: So although, yes, you might be paying a couple of percent for that credit card, you're paying a heck of a lot less than you might be paying through a reseller. 159 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:29,470 Nic Beique: Exactly. And if you think about, you know, I think what's lost about credit cards is that they are credit. 160 00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:34,010 Nic Beique: Like you said, like you said, they are, you know, if you have a small business on the other side that's making 161 00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:39,210 Nic Beique: that order from you, we certainly did it for many years when we started this business as a small business. 162 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:44,930 Nic Beique: We were using her credit card as a way to try to manage our cash flow and it was essentially, you know, a loan, right? 163 00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:51,630 Nic Beique: So if we had to purchase a bunch of computers or whatever is the case, right? Like we put it on there and then we paid it off. 164 00:17:52,930 --> 00:18:00,850 Kevin Mako: So you have to understand that by offering that to your customer, you might make that sale possible with otherwise, they might be scrambling to make it happen. 165 00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:05,310 Kevin Mako: And then, you know, you might still be able to make the sale happen, but you have to think, like, now 166 00:18:05,310 --> 00:18:12,850 Kevin Mako: they're thinking about that next time they do an order going like, oh, that was really tough to try to like squeeze enough cash so that we could write a check. 167 00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:18,530 Kevin Mako: I really wish we could have done a, you know, a credit card order or something else. 168 00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:25,710 Kevin Mako: and it's something to keep in mind because the person, you know, if they have an option that's next to you where they can go, 169 00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:31,810 Kevin Mako: they might go with that just because they're trying to manage and grow as a small business as well, right? That's a good point. 170 00:18:32,050 --> 00:18:37,250 Kevin Mako: And the other side, too, is especially later stage when the trust is built, you can always offer it as an option to say, 171 00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:41,810 Kevin Mako: look, if you really need to play with the credit card, just pay our fees and, you know, we'll be square or 172 00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:48,330 Nic Beique: if you want, you know, it'll cost you or even look at it the other way, say, well, maybe we'll shave a couple percent off if you pay via the bank, 173 00:18:48,530 --> 00:18:55,610 Nic Beique: as opposed to the credit card method. So there are options. But again, it's up to you to think about as the business owner, always, like I say, 174 00:18:55,730 --> 00:19:01,230 Nic Beique: always leaning on the side of the customer. Really think about what the customer needs first and then you figure out how to manage that on the back end. 175 00:19:01,490 --> 00:19:09,310 Nic Beique: Always good advice, no matter whether it's B2C or B2B, whether it's in person or whether it's an online transaction, all of that theory really just resonates, 176 00:19:09,470 --> 00:19:13,330 Nic Beique: especially when you've got a high quality product, which generally most new inventions are, right? 177 00:19:13,390 --> 00:19:17,730 Nic Beique: They're an elevation of your product and therefore they have inherent value baked in. 178 00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:22,730 Nic Beique: Exactly. And I think, another thing to think about, you know, you brought up, you know, e-commerce and 179 00:19:22,730 --> 00:19:31,990 Nic Beique: Amazon. And another think about it, I think, you know, we saw a big kind of revolution, especially, you know, COVID accelerated that with people shifting their habits 180 00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:38,890 Nic Beique: towards like purchasing online, right? And I think where the next, the next kind of revolution or next wave 181 00:19:38,890 --> 00:19:47,670 Nic Beique: is coming. And I think this applies to makers and people that are thinking, especially if you're in kind of that wholesale kind of B2B mode is, is what I, you know, 182 00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:57,350 Nic Beique: what I would call e-commerce or B2B e-commerce, right? Because if you think about it, as a consumer, it's pretty easy to think about a product, go online and purchase it, right? 183 00:19:57,730 --> 00:20:01,970 Nic Beique: But if you think about it from a business transaction standpoint, it's actually still quite rigid. 184 00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:08,570 Nic Beique: You know, you're dealing, you know, a lot of times a lot of people, you have to still call them, do a purchase order, then they send you something, 185 00:20:09,030 --> 00:20:16,310 Nic Beique: then you sign it. And, you know, like, and we haven't seen as much of that shift towards that B2B e-commerce where it's like, 186 00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:25,890 Nic Beique: no, maybe it's, you know, for example, for us, we offer, we offer an online, hosted online store similar to Shopify, right? But it's actually more geared towards that. 187 00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:33,310 Kevin Mako: So you can password protect the whole site. You can offer different wholesale rates to different customers. You can make 188 00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:39,990 Kevin Mako: it so that they don't necessarily have to pay for the order at checkout. They can actually just create, you know, generate a purchase order or an invoice out of it, right? 189 00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:46,610 Kevin Mako: But I really started to think about how, you know, that wave is coming where all of a sudden, it's, it's about, 190 00:20:46,690 --> 00:20:53,570 Kevin Mako: you know, if you've gotten used to it as a consumer, hey, it's really easy for me to go online and reorder anything I want. 191 00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:59,710 Kevin Mako: Well, every business needs to think about their own customers and be like, we should be able to offer that same convenience to them as well. 192 00:21:00,590 --> 00:21:05,290 Kevin Mako: And why is it that they have to email us if they want to order more from us? Shouldn't we make that seamless? 193 00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:14,180 Kevin Mako: Nick, I really like that you brought up that wholesale, let's call it B2C or B2B online, because that definitely is an emerging trend. 194 00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:19,520 Kevin Mako: And you can think about it on the smaller levels, whereas if you've got a new product, 195 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,320 Kevin Mako: a gadget, whatever else, and you're selling B2C on the website, a lot of the time you also 196 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:33,600 Kevin Mako: have interest in selling wholesale to stores, which then will resell it, either online or in actual stores themselves, it's very difficult for those small retailers to 197 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,880 Kevin Mako: find a lot of product in an efficient way and place orders and volume. And this is coming. 198 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:46,160 Kevin Mako: So I love that you address that because we've had a number of communications on the design the development side, especially as we're working with clients to start building up their 199 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:52,220 Kevin Mako: e-commerce stores or even just their entire platform of how they plan to sell or the options that they plan to sell on. 200 00:21:52,840 --> 00:22:00,040 Kevin Mako: Wholesale sales with a click of a button is a big one. Because what better way for a store to go to all these emerging marketplaces? 201 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:09,060 Kevin Mako: And obviously one of the early ones is ali-Bub or even Ali Express where you can go on and you can place an order for 50 units of something to then resell on your store. 202 00:22:09,260 --> 00:22:17,140 Kevin Mako: So not only to provide a service which authorizes and encourages stores to buy wholesale from you, as opposed to, you know, maybe reaching out to a 203 00:22:17,140 --> 00:22:20,000 Kevin Mako: product they like directly and trying to cut a deal, you give it to them. 204 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:26,280 Nic Beique: You make it very simple. And you say, look, if you want to order 50 pieces, it's at a reduced rate. And we give you authorization to sell it. 205 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:33,680 Nic Beique: And here's maybe the parameters, you know, or your, you know, your retail distribution license agreement or whatever else, click a button. And like you said, 206 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,460 Nic Beique: whether it's an instant payment or whether it's an invoice generation or whether it's a later, 207 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:44,700 Nic Beique: you know, later stage bank payment, whatever it might be, you make it smooth and easy, which is obviously a reoccurring theme in this talk today, 208 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:50,620 Nic Beique: but making it really easy for those folks to buy 25, 50, 100 units of your product. And you'd be surprised. 209 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:59,400 Nic Beique: Imagine if you could build up 20, 30, 50 of those types of resellers who are just ordering from you on a regular basis, it might be easier to do that than it is to try 210 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:06,540 Nic Beique: and get a handful of larger retailers and, you know, go through the six, eight month vetting process just to get on the shelves. Exactly. 211 00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:12,240 Nic Beique: And I think the litmus test for that is, you know, think about, you know, you as a 212 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:18,040 Kevin Mako: small business owner, you're sitting on your couch at, you know, say, 11 at night on a Saturday, trying to decompress, right? 213 00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:26,760 Kevin Mako: You should ask yourself, if a customer, if one of my customers, including wholesale customers, wants to make an order right now, can they? 214 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:34,120 Nic Beique: Or do they have to wait for Monday and, you know, contact me or whatever is the case kind of thing, right? And if, if, 215 00:23:34,220 --> 00:23:41,530 Nic Beique: if that test isn't passed, then they might be inclined to go, like, I think we all, we all need 216 00:23:41,530 --> 00:23:48,390 Nic Beique: that smooth access to the products that we need, right, where it regards to what it is, right? So I would really kind of ask yourself that question, be like, how can I make that 217 00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:51,730 Nic Beique: happen? And it doesn't necessarily need to be an online store, but there needs to be a process 218 00:23:52,210 --> 00:23:58,370 Nic Beique: that they can feel like in that moment, they can go make that order from you and move on to the next task, right? 219 00:23:59,190 --> 00:24:07,890 Nic Beique: That's a really good point. Nic, I appreciate it. Before I let you go here, just give a quick overview of how folks can get in contact with Helcim if they want to 220 00:24:07,890 --> 00:24:11,390 Nic Beique: reach out to you to at least get the discussion going about how they, 221 00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:18,050 Kevin Mako: plan for or set up payment processing for their products as they evolve. Yep. So our website is helsum.com. 222 00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:25,910 Kevin Mako: I would encourage anyone. So our customers can sign up instantly on the website. There's no need for paperwork or anything like that. 223 00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:33,070 Kevin Mako: But a lot of times people will call in and just want to talk to somebody. We have an amazing team and they can, you know, ask any, there's no pressure. 224 00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:39,670 Kevin Mako: There's no commissions and just ask a million questions, you know, what if this happens? How does the rates work? How does visa work? Things like that, right? 225 00:24:39,670 --> 00:24:41,150 Kevin Mako: So we're always happy to take those calls. 226 00:24:42,330 --> 00:24:50,890 Kevin Mako: And they can get started from there. The other thing, too, is that for me personally, I always love talking to entrepreneurs and small business owners 227 00:24:50,890 --> 00:25:00,330 Kevin Mako: and helping them pick my brain and I get to learn a lot from them as well. So I accept if you go to my LinkedIn, I'm sure you can find my name from the podcast. 228 00:25:00,550 --> 00:25:05,710 Kevin Mako: I accept all connection requests and I'm always happy to chat. As always, I'll put all the links into the show notes as well. 229 00:25:05,870 --> 00:25:08,710 Kevin Mako: Nick, thanks again for being on the show. Much appreciated. Thanks for having me. 230 00:25:09,210 --> 00:25:17,690 Narrator: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your product to market 231 00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:24,610 Narrator: and turn it into a big success. This podcast series is brought to you by Mako Design + Invent, 232 00:25:24,910 --> 00:25:34,490 Narrator: the original and leading firm in North America to provide global caliber in -to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product 233 00:25:34,490 --> 00:25:41,250 Narrator: business clients. If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to MakoDesign.com. 234 00:25:41,530 --> 00:25:50,370 Narrator: That's M-A-K-O Design dot com for a free consultation from one of Mako Designs for Design Studios from coast to coast. 235 00:25:50,590 --> 00:25:52,730 Narrator: Thanks for listening and see you next time.