Welcome back to Turning the Table.

We've we've got episode 1 36 here today.

Everybody will come back.

You'll probably notice that unfortunately it's just me today missing Adam Lamb.

Unfortunately he's not around today to join us.

But he'll be back soon.

Today we've got Anthony Voletta, the president of Bar Taco, which

is doing some really cool stuff.

We're gonna talk about innovation in the industry.

We're gonna talk about labor models that make it easier to stay ahead and looking

forward to some of that discussion.

So be back in a second and away we go.

Welcome to Turning the Table, the Most Progressive Weekly podcast for

today's food and beverage industry, featuring staff centric operating

solutions for restaurants in the hashtag new hospitality culture.

Join Jim Taylor of Benchmark 60 and Adam Lamb as they turn the tables on

the prevailing operating assumptions of running a restaurant in favor

of innovative solutions to our industry's most persistent challenges.

Thanks for joining us and now on.

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Anthony, welcome welcome to Turning the Table.

How are you?

Great to be here.

Good.

How you doing?

I'm good.

We were chatting earlier about how you it seems like you're on a podcast every week.

You're like the most popular guest around right now, I think.

You gotta take advantage while you're the A-list celebrity because before we know

it, you become yesterday's lunch, right?

So it's all going well.

Excuse me, it's no surprise that you know that people are wanting to talk to you

because of what's going on with Bar Taco.

I see you guys in in the media and the news on social media that there's

this crazy rapid growth going on.

Congrats.

But thank you.

Maybe just give us a, what's the latest with Bar Taco?

What's going on with you guys?

That's yeah.

Big growth this year.

We just opened up in Nashville and in DC a few months before then.

We're opening up Chicago in a month.

We've got another store in Boston the month after that.

We're opening in Charleston, South Carolina, third one in Miami.

So growth is great.

It's thankful all of our guests and our staff are making it happen, but it's

been, it'll be a heck of a year for us.

Yeah, we gotta get you guys up to Canada.

We need a bar taco in Canada.

It's not the question at some point if you're gonna go quote

unquote international, the first one likes to be right up north of us.

So wouldn't be surprised to the point we look at it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You'll probably end up in Toronto though, on the other side of the country before

on at, but we'll slowly work our way up.

We'll get there eventually.

So there's lots of different things that we can talk about from we were

chatting earlier about what's all the, what's the latest way to get through

all this craziness in our industry?

And we wanna make sure we talk a little bit about the labor model side

of things in terms of what you guys have been really innovative with.

But what's, can you just maybe give us like, what's the secret

sauce without giving away all.

Without giving away all your trade secrets, like what's so cool about

Bar Taco besides what we see on social or for those that have been Yeah.

And we're very open about trade secrets.

We don't keep anything secret.

We like to be public with it.

But for us it's barta's been an escape since it started 11 years ago.

The goal for us as you go in, it feels like you're either in your mountain cabana

getting ready to hit the slopes, or in the beach with your toes in the sand,

being able to relax and unplug from life.

Fresh squeeze margaritas and fresh squeeze cocktails and

really good quality food.

People love that they flock to it and it's always been a great value concept.

We're built during the previous recession, so we've got this really

different approach to how we do things and we like to break a lot of the

rules and do things differently.

And it's it's worked for 11 years, so we're gonna keep it going.

Okay.

So you just mentioned that you wanted to be an.

Is that like the whole concept of be the third place for people?

Yeah, that's it.

We, when we first started, there wasn't even plugins for laptops.

Like we wanted people to literally be detached and just be able to go in

and feel like you're on vacation for.

However long you're in the restaurant for.

Techs change a little bit, so of course we've got plug-ins, but the

idea was we wanna be transported.

And people, when they walk in the door, that's the biggest compliment we get.

It's God, I feel like I walked into someone's beach house.

That's exactly what we want them to feel like.

So that original location, does it have plug-ins now?

Did you guys go back and, yeah we've retrofit everything.

Some stuff you gotta adjust but it still has the same feeling,

still has the same vibe.

And that's what.

And so let's get into this big one that everybody wants to ask you about.

Yeah.

This at a time when every, pretty much every restaurant in North America,

in the UK and probably everywhere in the world, can't find people.

You guys don't have that problem?

No.

Listen we've got challenges like everybody else, but we're

fortunate to be about 92, 90 3% staffed across the company.

And yeah, we've got opportunities like everybody does.

But at the end of the day we use Covid v.

During that time when everybody was really hunkering down

and just trying to survive.

But we were doing that simultaneously.

We were looking for ways to come out of the backend of

this in a different approach.

And we created our new model created a position called a service leader.

So it's this hybrid of a server and a manager the salaried and

bonus and things of that nature.

Their only job was to make sure the guests had an incredible time

when we came out of the pandemic.

So we doubled down on salary, labor to do that.

And by doing that without servers, all those tips that the guests

were giving now became free reign.

So we have a fully pooled house.

So everybody in every restaurant makes the exact same amount

per hour every employee.

And then the tips are evenly dispersed based off of hours worked, right?

So the per hour wage is the same for every employee.

So when you think.

The challenges that we have, not only finding staff, but equity of pay

and people talking about, I have a better section, or they have better

this it's now, it's all equal.

And the dishwashers for that matter who've been underpaid and underappreciated

for decades in our business are not making the same money as the line cook

and the host and the food runner.

And it builds this amazing camaraderie of teamwork.

That's self-regulated because if Jim's not pulling his.

I know he is impacting my pocket and I say something.

So now the managers really are able to just run the restaurant.

And that really let us come out.

It was challenging at first to convince people that telling a cook

that's made 20 bucks an hour their entire life that they're gonna make.

12 plus tips, they're like, yeah, no, I don't believe you.

So it took some education, but now that we're going on two

years after it's been amazing.

We've been able to pay overly competitive rates in every market.

Some were paying double minimum wage in certain markets.

And now our managers have a really good growth trajectory because

we've created these levels.

Of ability to grow and with the amount we're growing they

can actually see a future.

So the whole package has really, it's changed the landscape for us.

And we get literally, I kid you not probably a call every

week from another company saying, can you teach us how to do this?

And we very freely tell them everything.

We share the backend information and all the data because we think

it's really gonna help businesses.

Good for you.

And that's not unique in our industry either.

Usually there's a lot of hoarding of information and trade

secret and that kinda thing.

Question for you about the, everybody makes the same.

Yeah.

Is there ever challenges with you, this person maybe has more a

section that's either bigger or more challenging or more detailed or

more complex versus somebody else.

Is there ever I have to work harder, so I should make more kind of a discuss.

There out of the gates.

There definitely was.

And it was actually more dominant in the back of house cuz out front

the sections, there's no servers.

It was just managers covering a section I did before in the kitchen.

There was a lot of that a lot of the for lack of a better term,

preme, donna line cooks that had been around forever that oh, they

made more, they didn't believe in it.

And for us, we believed in providing a living wage and making sure all

of our staff could literally take care of their family, take care of

themselves on the wage they work for.

And honestly we part of waves most of those people because to us it,

it's just as much about the pay as it is the mentality of our staff.

If we're gonna build a teamwork, cohesive environment, we want them

to believe in what we're doing too.

And I'll tell you the turnover, when we first started doing it

and our kitchen was really high.

But now the wave that's in here they really appreciate it.

And we have had, I think, minimal to no comments about Jim works harder than me.

I work harder than Jim.

I should make.

It doesn't happen.

We just say, Hey, if you wanna take the next step, we'll promote you.

You wanna be more I'll pay you more.

We'll get you to be a sous chef.

And our internal promote rate is consistently climbing month to

month, which helps our growth.

So it's, we've killed two birds of one stone.

Really?

Wow.

And so how does it differ from market to market?

Just in case anyone's ever wondering if I'm a little, if I'm a smaller

operator, excuse me, or If I'm an employee thinking about maybe that

I should work at a place like this.

Yeah.

How does it work in a market that minimum wage is $15 an hour versus

minimum wages, $7 an hour, or $2 an hour?

From a tip perspective, how does it work depending on the market?

Yeah we never take tax tip wage, so markets that allow you to

pay three, four bucks an hour for a service, we don't ever do that.

So it's always the lowest it goes is minimum wage in most of our

locations, barring a few except.

We pay minimum wage plus the tips, and the average employee makes about $24 an hour.

Some are north of 30, almost 40 during season.

Yeah.

Which is great.

But yeah, there is variability.

So like Colorado for example, minimum wage is like 1726 or something right now.

So their staff does make more, but at the end of the day, we look at it as

that 1726 is a big part of the cost.

Sure, right?

DC is high, Colorado's high places that the markets are going up it

tends to be that way across the board.

So sure there's a benefit.

If you wanna make 40 bucks an hour and go work in Colorado, you can.

And we're more than happy to do that.

But we actually monitor every week.

We have a call every Monday and every single store shows the

base pay and it shows the tip.

And we look at what the cumulative dollar amount per hour by store is.

And if that number, and our baseline has always been about $20 an hour.

If a store does not break $20 an hour for more than like consecutive weeks,

obviously randomly it'll happen.

We supplement the pay and we bring, we take their base wage up for that week

because we believe very firmly that $20 mark and up, no matter which market

you're in, Is the absolute bare minimum we're gonna commit that you'll ever make.

And that goes a long way when you basically say, I'm gonna take money outta

my pocket to make sure you make the cash.

They work so hard for that.

And I'll tell you, we, at the beginning, we had to do it a couple,

probably a couple times a month.

Now I think we've done it once in the past, probably six months because

the staff's being so efficient.

Wow.

They realize they're making more cash now without even us having to supplement.

So there's just really strong buy-in is what it sounds like you're saying.

Absolutely.

And it, it took two years of blood, sweat, and tears.

But the people that are with us now I'm thankful every day for how hard they

work and for them making this reality.

And are mostly your locations in downtown markets?

Are they in suburb or No, it's a mix.

We don't have many downtowns.

We try to, we don't love the big concentration of urban.

We've got a couple, but nothing crazy.

We like those kind of subsidiary markets just outside.

We do well in certain suburban markets.

We love the college crowd markets.

So we're, it's a little bit of a smorgasborg, if you will, of

our locations and the style.

But it's more about the use case.

People use us 3, 4, 5 times a week in different manners and styles, right?

Business, lunch, happy hour, late night drink date in the weekend.

So it allows us to, to get really.

Creative with our real estate selection.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Just comment from Shane there.

This is big brain stuff.

I agree, Shane.

That's why we wanted to have him on the show.

We've been Anthony, I've, we've had a couple good conversations

about this in the past.

Yeah, it's, yeah, it's cool to have you here to talk about it.

Okay.

So you said you're pretty open with other companies.

They call you to say, how do we do this?

Yes.

So if I'm an operator of a I'm a small, independent, I own two locations in

a pick a market, if I phone you what do you, what's the advice you give?

What do you tell 'em?

I walk 'em through everything.

Every call's been a little bit different, right?

Because I think everyone's starting to adjust their service.

Models because of whether it's staffing, shortages, pay, commodity prices,

all these things that are impacting our business, everyone's starting to

get, I shouldn't say starting to be, everybody's been very creative, right?

They're really thinking a little bit differently.

Typically I ask, I'm like, what is it you're trying to accomplish?

If they're looking to do it exactly the way we do it, great.

I've got the playbook and I'll walk 'em through beginning to end how we

transitioned, what we did, where we.

Cuz I firmly believe if we could get another a hundred different

concepts to be doing the same thing, it's better for all of us, right?

Because it becomes the norm and the guests get trained that this is the way

that restaurants can run effectively and still give great hospitality.

But if they're trying to do hybrid pieces, I'm I ask 'em the

questions, it's more of a dialogue.

What is it, what's the problem you're solving for?

And what do you, why do you think this is a solution?

I try to help them understand that Delta.

But the biggest thing for us when I talked to 'em, some of 'em

were like, Hey, I just need to make more money, which is fine.

Sure.

For us, that was actually the unintended benefit.

The initial play was really, I, we wanted salaried managers because they had much

more buy-in to be leading hospitality at a higher rate than anybody else.

Because we knew after Covid, every restaurant in the world was struggling

to just put food on the table.

It was like, it was just a struggle and we're like, if we can lean.

And provide amazing hospitality better than we ever have before.

When everyone else is just trying to execute, we win.

And luckily we came out of that and when we were, when we first came outta Covid,

our guest sediment, we reach out of five.

We were a 3.85.

Okay?

Right now, rolling six months, we're a 4.73.

The curve has been nothing but 45 degrees up.

So the real goal of us was to provide an amazing guest experience, provide

a living wage for our team so they.

Not have to work two and three jobs, but hopefully go down to one, maybe two.

And then the end of the day, if those two things happen,

profits always follow, right?

That's happy guests, happy staff.

Yeah.

Everything else is easy.

And we accomplish both those first two.

So obviously the financial benefit is great too.

So depends on the people that what they're trying to accomplish, right?

There's different benefits of doing.

Yeah.

Makes sense.

So it sounds we all, we know now and I follow you guys quite closely, so I know

there's really strong growth trajectory.

You've got pipelines of people that are like you said, 93, 92, 90 5%.

What's the biggest challenge in the, in, in the way for you guys right now?

Because rapid growth is difficult at the best of times Sure is.

So what's, what do you see as over the next year or two, as things that

are gonna be challenging to work?

Yeah.

I think the challenge is, even though we're at a really good percentage, right?

Numbers tell a story.

There's qualitative behind every number.

And the narrative for us, like everybody, we're always trying to

find the best people in the market.

And for us, convincing people that this new model is something that

they want to be a part of is a, is still a big challenge for us.

You think about 95% of restaurants in America have been doing it the same.

For decades.

So looking at a seasoned manager Jim comes over and he is, got 15

years of experience and worked here, there in the other place.

And I tell him hey, I've got a different proposition for you.

Sometimes either they stge or they come in and they're like this

doesn't feel like it's for me.

And that's okay.

Like we're very, we try to be overly transparent when

we interview, like over to a.

Like, I'm like, I tell our talent team, I'm like, talk them out of

the job because it's so different.

And if they're really still excited about being tech forward and providing this

type of experience, then they're for us.

And it's, that's still hard to convince cuz because all

of us are in a staffing cycle.

What we're seeing is we pay at like the 85th to 90th percentile in comp

wages from the research we found.

So we pay.

But people are starving for good people that they'll come out and

say, Hey, I'll pay 'em $15,000 more.

Yeah, you can work less hours.

And by the way, all the accountability you have at that company, cuz we're

data freaks you don't have here.

So they come in, they turn the key in.

The sad part is a lot of people are like, you know what, I'll

take that, I'll take the money.

Le stress, like mental health is a real thing.

So to them they're like it's a little bit easier on me personally,

I can make some more cash.

So we're fighting a little bit of the norm.

We're trying to be that pioneer.

Kinda shifting.

We joke, like the movie Money Ball, we joke like we're the

Oakland Athletics a little bit.

We're doing it totally different and trying to get people on

the team that believe in it.

So honestly that's a big challenge for us is to find those right people.

And I think also like everybody else, the uncertainty of what's gonna happen

in the next 12 months, we don't know.

It's, this is, it's, it feels like stable ground, but the

stable ground's a little shaky.

Yeah.

So we're doing our best to just plan for the best and the worst at the same time.

But most importantly, we wanna make sure, our big challenge is to make sure

our people are safe and protected.

Like when Covid hit, we didn't lay off one employee one salary.

We kept every salary, paid 'em in.

We believe that our people deserve that.

And we are fortunate to be able to do that.

So we're really trying to make sure we can still plan for that if God forbid

recession or God knows what happens.

So those are our challenges that I think we've got in the next 12 to 18 months.

You're comment about protecting people you're speaking my

language when you say that.

So we spend a lot of time talking to people.

Restaurants, other industries all over the world about how to do that better.

So you're speaking my language.

Shifting gears a little bit.

Yeah.

You and I had a conversation the first time we chatted about that

you, when the pandemic happened and everybody went to QR codes.

You haven't gone away from them?

No.

So I had a interesting discussion with somebody a few weeks ago about

that sort of, their stance was, and they're a fairly senior leader in our.

Their stance was that customers are missing menus.

Customers want that nostalgic service related menu thing.

So besides the service, obviously it's a big part of the service model that

you guys use QR codes, but what I mean your own opinion or the bar taco one.

What's the other benefit?

Because I believe that there's huge opportunity with keeping QR codes.

I agree.

So I'm curious your take or your opinion on that.

Yeah of course cuz we don't have menus.

I'm gonna sign on the QR side but I think he makes a great point though.

There is some nostalgia and there's something about holding a menu.

The touch of it, the feel of it, the design, like it's

a brand touchpoint, right?

Like how you design the font you use whatever, no matter what style

of service, quick service define.

That's a touchpoint of your brand.

There's some, there's a connection from your guests to your concept

when they grab that menu.

So I agree there's a component of that a thousand percent.

But on the other side, and I think when it depends on the concept style we're

very primed towards a younger audience.

Our target demo is 25 to 30.

So we're and it's starting to shift a little bit younger.

So we're millennial, gen X, gen Y, gen Z and ultimately they don't want to

talk to anybody if they don't have to.

They'd prefer to not because they don't want the interaction, because they're

so comfortable on their device that everything in their life is instant.

So to us, we leaned into that saying yeah, menu is great, but when we stuck

with the QR codes and our QR code, just, I guess for the listeners, it's not just the

menu, you actually order via your QR code.

So it's a digital menu with a platform called one nine.

So you control the whole experience.

But the points where it really leaned in for us was when you think about a guest

experience having a typical server or a menu for that, Either I went to dinner

last night with a few people and we were waiting to try to find the server to just

order our appetizers, and it's that's the most frustrating thing at the table.

Sit down, I'm hungry, I just wanna get something in front of me.

Trying to get the second drink, but you can't, you have to wait

for your server to come back.

Trying to pay your check because the kids are screaming and you know

it's bedtime and you want to get 'em out, but you can't find the server.

Those things happen at every restaurant from fine dining to quick service.

So we gave those moments back to the guest and the menu can't do that.

It just doesn't have that ability.

And we still have kind of menus in our restaurant, but even pre covid

for anybody that's been to the brand, we used to have sushi cards, so we

actually didn't even have formal menus.

It was a sushi card and you filled.

The quantity and what you wanted with your name and you'd pass it in.

So the concept actually started in 11 years ago.

The thought was, we didn't need servers then.

And then we realized, oh my God, we're so busy we need servers.

And we brought 'em back in.

And so we're really going back to our roots of, Hey, we didn't really want to be

a menu driven restaurant that had servers.

Now we're just using technology.

And I think the pandemic accelerated people's acceptance

of technology as a substitute.

For things like a menu.

So I don't ever foresee a fine dining restaurant having it.

I shouldn't say ever, that's a bold statement but I think

there are segmentations of the restaurant that Absolutely.

Again, that brand touchpoint is just something about it.

I went to a really nice restaurant and they handed me an iPad for a

wine list and even to me, I was like, this doesn't feel right.

Yep.

But for our brands it, I think it aligns.

So I think there's a place for it depending on what your style

of cuisine and style services.

And then you said

your

data freaks.

So how much of the information from the QR codes do you guys use?

Oh God, so much there, right?

We have more data than we know what to do with anybody.

That's the world we live in.

No.

Your mom and pop are a 600 unit chain.

Like we all have so much data that we actually don't even know

what to do with it sometimes.

Exactly.

So to us, we're trying to really lean into just the customer preference

data and really begin to start to mold experiences for them.

Working on technology that if you're if you have an allergen or a

preference of the way you dine, if you, our whole menu's gluten free.

So if, let's just say you were vegan, that you can go in

and literally toggle the menu.

To the whole menu actually on digital is just vegan.

You can't do that on the paper.

You can signal it, right?

But, so we're working on these customizations in the future that

now I can go in, I can say, Hey, I'm a pescatarian, I'm a vegan.

I have this, I don't, can't eat soy.

One click of a button.

And now you don't feel like that uncomfortable experience of,

oh, hey, I have this allergy.

Can you check with the chef?

And it's back and forth and it's, it creates, We're

trying to eliminate friction.

So I think when those things start to come up and we're still developing those,

I think it actually allows people to understand the benefit more of QR for

an enhanced individualized experience.

Whereas a menu with nine different icons for spicy or allergies,

it, it gets a little too muddy.

This is a little bit cleaner in our opinion.

Yeah, interesting.

Adam and I.

Had a good discussion, just the two of us on the show a few weeks ago about

just some of the innovations in the industry and just having some good

open discussion about things like QR codes or this subscription model that

we keep hearing and taco Bell, Andre, and some of these con concepts going to,

and so it's cool to hear your opinion about you're in it you're in the

middle of it, you're at the forefront of.

It's cool to hear your opinion, but you're right about the data thing.

Most restaurants, especially with all the technology that they've adopted in the

last five years, there's more information than they will probably ever literally.

And we get sold on it.

It's oh, I can give you this.

And the question, we start asking ourselves like, all right, what are we

really gonna do with that information?

And is it beneficial to us today?

We're trying to narrow that down and be really specific about what we're doing.

Yeah.

The other thing that I gotta tell you too is that from my career in operations

before the last, as of up until about three years ago I did a lot of travel

and I I've heard you do the same thing.

And so I think as the president of the company it's just really it's really

good to hear about how much time you spent in actually in the restaurants.

Cause I'm sure that goes a long way when it comes to retention.

People wanting to move forward in the organization, so I'm

gonna commend you for that.

Yeah that that's where everything happens at the end of the day.

I've, we've all worked for good and bad companies in our careers, and the

leaders that I've always admired the most in my career and my development

has been ones that really understood and had a connection on the pulse.

I think especially when you're doing something that's, as groundbreaking,

I should say groundbreaking, but innovative is what we're doing, and.

It's important that you're on the ground hearing the feedback

from those that are doing it.

Cause it's easy to sit on your desk and say, oh no, this is

the way it's supposed to be.

And make up this vision in my head of what it sounds like.

I need to see what it looks like.

And quite frankly, it's fun.

One of the downfalls of the higher you're getting the company is

like you have less time in front of your guests and your staff.

And that's why we all love the business, right?

Like you want to get there and I want to hear how much our

guests love the experience.

I wanna meet the regulars.

I.

Welcome our new team members and the team and celebrate those milestones.

So that to me, I think is, that's the fun part of the job.

I wish I could do that all the time.

I'll never forget a mentor of mine when I was in operations.

He would always show up, not just show up.

He would've, he would spend time in the restaurants.

I always just said it as he would show up, but it was always Friday.

5 30, 6 o'clock, something like that.

And he would walk and he was an executive in the company

vice president at the time.

And he would cruise around the dining room and the lounge and talk

to guests and check in on staff and how was your shift last week?

And he'd remember all these people's names and all this different stuff.

And at one point, I.

I remember thinking to myself what is he doing here?

Does he not trust us?

Kinda thing.

Yeah.

And eventually one day I asked him, I said, look, it's Friday at six o'clock.

Shouldn't, why aren't you at home?

And I'll never forget his answer.

And it seems aligned with kind what you're saying.

He goes, you think that the important stuff happens in that office downtown

that I have to drive to every day?

And I said what do you mean?

He goes, this right here, these customers, this, these staff, all of this stuff.

This is why we're.

Yeah.

And it was I've never forgotten that from a hospitality and operations perspective.

He's right.

That's what it's all about.

So he's absolutely right.

Absolutely so it sounds like you've definitely got that

same sort of perspective okay.

So to wrap some of this stuff up, I'm curious, just your advice for

anyone who's in hospitality that hasn't really shifted their service model.

They're thinking about how do I be innovative to work

through things like whether.

There's so much information available, or I need to figure out a

different service model that supports this labor shortage differently.

What's your advice?

Where do you start?

Yeah I think the goal, yeah, no it's a great question.

Big question.

I think at the end of the day when you think about the upcoming years,

there's commodity prices are gonna get higher, labor's gonna get higher,

everything's gonna get harder.

It's gonna have bigger impacts in industry that's gonna, that's gonna put a stress.

I think we really need to stop thinking that the way we've always

done it or slight versions of it are gonna get us to the future.

I think the real way, and I use this on a interview not too long ago, I love the

expression if it's not broke, break it.

My mentality is you need to really go back in and assume nothing.

Assume the way that you do it now couldn't be done ever again.

What would you redo?

Like how would you rein, how would you innovate it?

How would you re.

And I think having those conversations regularly is the most important thing

you can do Right now, there's never gonna be a one size fits all, but

cuz mom and pops are different than 20 units, than different than 600 units.

But if we're, if you're not having the conversations harsh about we

need to change what do we need to break and put back together again?

Is a huge component.

And I think also the questions that I'm starting to ask my teams every

week now the first question I ask my.

Moving forward is, what did you fail at last week?

And we cel it's a celebration of failure, right?

Like people look at it as, oh my God, I can't afford to fail.

I can't afford to not fail and learn and move forward.

And I think that's, that mentality with your team is celebrate failures,

failing forward, failing often.

Failing isn't plenty of books about it.

But yeah, the reality is if you're not doing that now,

it's gonna be really hard.

And ultimately you're either gonna.

In the coattails of somebody else or God forbid you're gonna, you got a business.

And I would I would hate for anybody to see that happen.

And it's easy to get stuck, especially for companies that

are on this sort of rapid growth at the forefront of innovation.

All the cool stuff you guys are doing, it's easy to just think about

all the cool stuff that's going on.

Absolutely.

Definitely I would agree with you.

It's, it, the fail forward thing is not easy to do, but No.

That's really cool.

Thanks very much for taking the time.

I know you're obviously busy and we were talking about how much sometimes

you're on the road and Easter coming up.

But thanks so much for taking the time.

I'm sure Its my pleasure.

It's not just Shane that's listening to saying that this is been bring stuff.

So I appreciate you taking the time and hope to have you on the show again

here maybe in a few months and we'll get the update on the new openings.

Absolutely.

Happy to.

Thanks for the time Jim.

Really appreciate

it.

Thanks very much Anthony.

Anthony and we'll be in touch.

Thanks so much everybody for joining the show today.

Again we miss Adam.

He'll be back again soon.

And onto the next episode here next week.

See you then.

I'm turning the table.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of Turning the Table with

me, Adam Lamb and Jim Taylor.

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