1 00:00:00,214 --> 00:00:04,354 You found the backup wrap up your go-to podcast for all things 2 00:00:04,354 --> 00:00:06,934 backup recovery and cyber recovery. 3 00:00:07,474 --> 00:00:10,144 In this episode, we take a look at something that's happening 4 00:00:10,144 --> 00:00:14,944 right now across Europe, the eu, US Cloud exit movement. 5 00:00:15,364 --> 00:00:19,984 European companies and governments are considering ditching US cloud 6 00:00:19,984 --> 00:00:21,784 providers like Microsoft 365. 7 00:00:22,699 --> 00:00:24,379 Have you thought about this? 8 00:00:24,859 --> 00:00:25,939 Uh, here's my question. 9 00:00:26,454 --> 00:00:29,659 I I, is somebody thinking about the backup implications of that? 10 00:00:29,659 --> 00:00:32,839 If you're thinking about exiting, uh, a cloud provider? 11 00:00:33,259 --> 00:00:34,579 We'll talk about your options. 12 00:00:34,579 --> 00:00:37,669 Talk about what works, what doesn't, why the 3, 2, 1 rule 13 00:00:37,669 --> 00:00:38,959 is more important than ever. 14 00:00:38,959 --> 00:00:43,189 I. W if you're thinking about navigating a cloud exit or a migration. 15 00:00:43,849 --> 00:00:47,749 By the way, if you don't know who I am, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. 16 00:00:47,749 --> 00:00:52,219 Backup, and I've been passionate about backup and recovery for over 30 years. 17 00:00:52,579 --> 00:00:53,059 Ever since. 18 00:00:53,059 --> 00:00:56,269 I had to tell my boss that there were no backups of the production 19 00:00:56,269 --> 00:00:57,739 database that we had just lost. 20 00:00:58,339 --> 00:01:01,129 I don't want that to happen to you, and that's why I do this. 21 00:01:01,519 --> 00:01:06,439 On this podcast, we turn unappreciated backup admins into Cyber Recovery Heroes. 22 00:01:06,769 --> 00:01:08,689 This is the backup wrap up. 23 00:01:25,401 --> 00:01:26,181 welcome to the show. 24 00:01:27,411 --> 00:01:32,361 Hi, I am w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup, and I have with me my Bluetooth 25 00:01:32,361 --> 00:01:35,551 speaker, analyst Prasanna Malaiyandi. 26 00:01:35,571 --> 00:01:35,901 How's it going? 27 00:01:35,901 --> 00:01:36,311 Prasanna? 28 00:01:36,711 --> 00:01:37,041 Good. 29 00:01:37,041 --> 00:01:39,856 Curtis, did you finally decide what you're going to do? 30 00:01:39,956 --> 00:01:40,816 Did it work actually? 31 00:01:41,511 --> 00:01:44,391 It did, I got the sec. I went, you know, the second one. 32 00:01:44,451 --> 00:01:48,441 Um, I wanted to get a Bluetooth speaker closer to my bed. 33 00:01:48,996 --> 00:01:52,416 Because I, I, I'm trying to like, keep the noise down in the room when I'm watching 34 00:01:52,416 --> 00:01:56,646 tv and so I wanted a Bluetooth speaker and it, it was a little harder than I thought. 35 00:01:57,156 --> 00:02:01,176 . I didn't wanna spend like 300 bucks on a, you know, just basically 36 00:02:01,176 --> 00:02:02,526 a minor convenience speaker. 37 00:02:02,556 --> 00:02:05,106 Uh, so I, I ended up finding one that was, um. 38 00:02:05,511 --> 00:02:07,941 You know, that was, uh, it, it worked. 39 00:02:07,941 --> 00:02:11,031 I've got, actually, not only do I have it assembled and powered on, it's 40 00:02:11,031 --> 00:02:12,651 actually already mounted to the wall. 41 00:02:12,831 --> 00:02:13,671 Nice. 42 00:02:13,676 --> 00:02:13,796 I, 43 00:02:13,881 --> 00:02:14,391 job. 44 00:02:15,196 --> 00:02:16,821 I, I had some free time today, 45 00:02:17,481 --> 00:02:18,081 is it a 46 00:02:18,261 --> 00:02:18,321 so 47 00:02:18,471 --> 00:02:21,561 weird though with the sound, because I know you mentioned that you have 48 00:02:21,561 --> 00:02:22,731 it mounted on the wall, which is 49 00:02:22,856 --> 00:02:23,146 yeah, 50 00:02:24,081 --> 00:02:24,681 your head. 51 00:02:24,921 --> 00:02:28,251 Does it seem a little weird with the sound coming from behind 52 00:02:28,251 --> 00:02:29,511 you rather than in front of 53 00:02:29,566 --> 00:02:32,686 It is a little weird, uh, but like, I don't know. 54 00:02:32,716 --> 00:02:37,066 It's, it's not that much different to me than having AirPods in, for example, 55 00:02:37,591 --> 00:02:38,371 it, sorry. 56 00:02:38,401 --> 00:02:39,061 There are two things. 57 00:02:39,061 --> 00:02:41,191 One is the sound coming from behind you, 58 00:02:41,506 --> 00:02:41,596 Uhhuh. 59 00:02:41,791 --> 00:02:44,101 then the other thing is the left and right channels being flipped. 60 00:02:44,806 --> 00:02:45,076 Yeah. 61 00:02:45,076 --> 00:02:46,426 I don't, I don't think that's a, 62 00:02:46,656 --> 00:02:46,946 Okay. 63 00:02:47,326 --> 00:02:50,851 that, that literally just really hasn't, at least not I. It's 64 00:02:50,851 --> 00:02:51,961 not something that made it. 65 00:02:51,961 --> 00:02:52,201 Yeah. 66 00:02:52,471 --> 00:02:52,801 Yeah. 67 00:02:53,431 --> 00:02:55,111 Um, but, but yeah. 68 00:02:55,111 --> 00:02:59,221 But anyway, that, that was my project for the day and that project was completed. 69 00:02:59,851 --> 00:03:00,571 Uh, now I'm 70 00:03:00,616 --> 00:03:01,546 one off the list. 71 00:03:01,981 --> 00:03:03,151 check one off the list. 72 00:03:03,331 --> 00:03:05,821 Now I just have like 19 Amazon returns to get to. 73 00:03:07,336 --> 00:03:08,056 It's okay. 74 00:03:08,056 --> 00:03:09,736 Amazon's easy to deal with. 75 00:03:10,216 --> 00:03:10,506 Yeah. 76 00:03:10,546 --> 00:03:15,976 so before we continue, I think it's important to tell our listeners if 77 00:03:15,976 --> 00:03:20,026 you like the podcast, if you like what you hear, please subscribe 78 00:03:20,206 --> 00:03:25,456 on your favorite podcaster, apple Podcast, Spotify, whatever you use, 79 00:03:25,666 --> 00:03:28,936 so you don't miss an episode of US blabbering every week talking about 80 00:03:28,936 --> 00:03:30,766 tech and data protection and privacy. 81 00:03:31,791 --> 00:03:36,261 Talking about tech and backup and data protection and restores and recoveries, 82 00:03:36,261 --> 00:03:38,871 and how can I forget cybersecurity. 83 00:03:39,291 --> 00:03:43,671 So please make sure to subscribe and if you actually wanna see us talking, 84 00:03:44,061 --> 00:03:46,011 like actually see what we look like. 85 00:03:46,041 --> 00:03:47,901 Uh, I do have a shorter beard now. 86 00:03:47,901 --> 00:03:49,286 I. But still have the long hair. 87 00:03:49,496 --> 00:03:54,566 Uh, we are also available on YouTube under the same channel, the backup wrap 88 00:03:54,706 --> 00:03:54,946 Yeah. 89 00:03:55,136 --> 00:03:58,496 if you wanna see what the two of us look like and our random facial expressions 90 00:03:58,496 --> 00:04:03,026 and me staring off into the distance every once in a while, uh, a look. 91 00:04:03,766 --> 00:04:07,696 And, uh, feel free to comment, uh, like we recently got a 92 00:04:07,696 --> 00:04:09,406 comment on our YouTube channel. 93 00:04:11,716 --> 00:04:13,876 It was one of those like backhanded compliments. 94 00:04:14,111 --> 00:04:18,016 I, I, I, he, he actually comments pretty regularly on the channel and, and he 95 00:04:18,016 --> 00:04:22,336 was like, uh, he basically said, Hey, these guys, it started, you start out. 96 00:04:22,336 --> 00:04:25,636 These guys might not look like much, but, but they, they, you know, they 97 00:04:25,636 --> 00:04:26,746 seem to know what they're talking about. 98 00:04:26,746 --> 00:04:28,276 And I'm like, what is that supposed to be? 99 00:04:28,276 --> 00:04:30,256 And he's like, you guys kind of look homeless. 100 00:04:30,256 --> 00:04:30,466 And I'm. 101 00:04:33,946 --> 00:04:36,556 I mean, the video was back when you had the longer beard. 102 00:04:36,556 --> 00:04:40,486 I had like the same beard and then it was one that Mike was on, and Mike, 103 00:04:40,546 --> 00:04:46,846 Mike has sort of his normal beard, but yeah, homeless, um, that's a bit harsh. 104 00:04:46,936 --> 00:04:53,441 I, I, you know, but, um, anyway, so, so we're, we, we've got 105 00:04:53,626 --> 00:04:54,826 a, an interesting one today. 106 00:04:55,096 --> 00:04:58,666 I, it's, it's gonna start out I think, a little bit outside of our normal. 107 00:04:59,311 --> 00:05:02,701 Scope of, of stuff that we talk about, but we're gonna bring it 108 00:05:02,701 --> 00:05:06,901 back home to the things that we normal, that we normally talk about. 109 00:05:07,171 --> 00:05:10,621 And, uh, this was, this was something that, go ahead. 110 00:05:10,831 --> 00:05:13,621 and promise me that we will not get political because this 111 00:05:13,621 --> 00:05:15,031 is not a political podcast. 112 00:05:17,041 --> 00:05:18,451 I will promise that you will not. 113 00:05:18,901 --> 00:05:19,651 Yeah, right. 114 00:05:19,921 --> 00:05:20,101 Yeah. 115 00:05:20,101 --> 00:05:25,681 I promise that because there will be some, some, some stuff mentioned. 116 00:05:25,711 --> 00:05:27,151 Um, and this is just. 117 00:05:28,456 --> 00:05:32,956 We're just, I, I think, I think it needs to be mentioned because 118 00:05:32,986 --> 00:05:35,596 it is the point of view of the eu. 119 00:05:36,016 --> 00:05:40,066 Um, and, and, and, and it's providing a point of view from which 120 00:05:40,066 --> 00:05:41,266 we need to have the discussion. 121 00:05:41,266 --> 00:05:47,026 So, um, and you, you sent me a bunch of articles and, and, and a PDF that, 122 00:05:48,346 --> 00:05:53,506 um, the, the general, um, the general. 123 00:05:54,421 --> 00:05:59,791 Gist of the, sort of the impetus of this discussion is that a number 124 00:05:59,791 --> 00:06:06,781 of EU countries, companies, uh, and entities within those companies are 125 00:06:06,781 --> 00:06:12,571 feeling that they can no longer trust the, the US and the US tech companies. 126 00:06:13,291 --> 00:06:15,931 To be the sole provider of the services that they use. 127 00:06:16,336 --> 00:06:17,566 Correct, right. 128 00:06:17,596 --> 00:06:24,406 Uh, either sole provider or, um, or just to store data in a US cloud at all. 129 00:06:24,556 --> 00:06:24,976 Right. 130 00:06:25,366 --> 00:06:30,886 Um, and the, you know, it, it comes from things like the Cloud Act that was 131 00:06:30,886 --> 00:06:36,856 passed several years ago, which I would refer to as the Modern Patriot Act. 132 00:06:37,426 --> 00:06:40,396 Um, for those of you that don't remember the Patriot Act, 133 00:06:40,456 --> 00:06:42,076 uh, you know, it basically. 134 00:06:42,646 --> 00:06:49,636 It was enacted after nine 11 and it, it gave us governments a a little bit, 135 00:06:50,176 --> 00:06:55,396 well, many would say a lot of extra access to basically it, it sort of. 136 00:06:56,086 --> 00:07:00,826 Undid, what I would say, fifth Amendment type protections for your data. 137 00:07:01,486 --> 00:07:06,016 If, if, um, the terrorism was, was suspected or whatever, right. 138 00:07:06,646 --> 00:07:10,126 And the, the Cloud Act, which was passed in 2018 was similar. 139 00:07:10,426 --> 00:07:15,196 Uh, there were some comments and some, some stuff from the current administration 140 00:07:15,466 --> 00:07:17,836 that added to the, to the mix. 141 00:07:18,946 --> 00:07:24,076 And so they're feeling, uh, just in general, um, that they. 142 00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:30,106 That the, the sort of friendly relationship and the trust that they 143 00:07:30,106 --> 00:07:34,216 have, not just in the companies, but in the government that the companies are 144 00:07:34,216 --> 00:07:37,996 running under that they don't have the kind of trust that they used to have. 145 00:07:38,596 --> 00:07:41,146 And then there was, uh, some comments. 146 00:07:41,146 --> 00:07:44,026 There was actually one of the links that you sent me had a, 147 00:07:44,056 --> 00:07:48,196 had a link in it to a Dutch, um. 148 00:07:48,511 --> 00:07:53,881 You know, discussion, which I of course gave to AI and had it take a look at that 149 00:07:53,881 --> 00:07:58,381 page and they, and they were basically saying that there was this ongoing 150 00:07:58,381 --> 00:08:03,721 discussion about how that governments over there would say that like, well, 151 00:08:03,721 --> 00:08:08,791 US cloud providers can't really see our real IP addresses or something like this. 152 00:08:09,391 --> 00:08:11,731 And that just totally ended up not being true. 153 00:08:11,911 --> 00:08:12,331 Right. 154 00:08:12,751 --> 00:08:15,571 And so, so, so it's a combination of both. 155 00:08:16,291 --> 00:08:23,371 So politics, some laws, and also some technology where, you know, and, and. 156 00:08:25,501 --> 00:08:25,801 How? 157 00:08:25,801 --> 00:08:33,451 How would you comparing EU law to US law, when it comes to matters of privacy, how 158 00:08:33,451 --> 00:08:35,976 would you summarize the difference there? 159 00:08:36,391 --> 00:08:40,741 Yeah, EU is very, user privacy is paramount. 160 00:08:41,266 --> 00:08:41,616 Right. 161 00:08:41,641 --> 00:08:47,431 it comes to laws and regulations with GDPR in the US it is more lax. 162 00:08:47,541 --> 00:08:48,961 That's putting it mildly, I think. 163 00:08:49,516 --> 00:08:49,786 well. 164 00:08:49,786 --> 00:08:53,536 I think those, some states are trying to do the best that they can, right. 165 00:08:53,536 --> 00:08:56,086 California with CCPA and other things like that. 166 00:08:56,086 --> 00:08:58,936 But there's no sort of federal standard that 167 00:08:59,191 --> 00:08:59,701 Yeah, there's, 168 00:09:00,046 --> 00:09:00,316 data. 169 00:09:00,481 --> 00:09:04,291 there, there's no federal standard and even laws like GD or uh, 170 00:09:04,351 --> 00:09:07,561 CCPA, there's no bite to it. 171 00:09:07,591 --> 00:09:08,011 Right. 172 00:09:08,111 --> 00:09:13,181 You've done some access requests using CCPA and you're like, Hey, 173 00:09:13,181 --> 00:09:14,441 how'd you get my information? 174 00:09:14,441 --> 00:09:18,971 Like you, you know, and, and, and you have found it to be a mixed bag. 175 00:09:19,031 --> 00:09:20,441 Is that a fair statement? 176 00:09:20,526 --> 00:09:20,786 yeah. 177 00:09:20,786 --> 00:09:24,356 Some companies are like, yeah, uh, we're not gonna tell you. 178 00:09:24,356 --> 00:09:28,916 And sometimes it actually required getting the attorney General for California 179 00:09:28,916 --> 00:09:30,626 involved in order to actually get them to 180 00:09:30,761 --> 00:09:30,911 Yeah. 181 00:09:30,956 --> 00:09:31,526 me back my data. 182 00:09:32,366 --> 00:09:33,356 Isn't that hilarious? 183 00:09:33,506 --> 00:09:33,956 Yes. 184 00:09:33,956 --> 00:09:39,056 used it, interestingly enough, um, I used it when, uh, uh, for tax time. 185 00:09:39,626 --> 00:09:45,596 Um, I went to, uh, the, the stores that I frequent, Amazon, home Depot, 186 00:09:45,746 --> 00:09:49,076 and Lowe's, and I said, give me all the data that you have on me. 187 00:09:49,076 --> 00:09:54,026 I. And, and they, and they, and all of them except for Home Depot, very quickly 188 00:09:54,026 --> 00:09:58,106 said, Hey, here's a giant ass spreadsheet of all the stuff that you bought for 189 00:09:58,106 --> 00:10:00,026 us, the dates, the names, the thing. 190 00:10:00,086 --> 00:10:03,086 And I was gonna use it basically as like a receipt kind of thing. 191 00:10:03,626 --> 00:10:08,606 Uh, home Depot did not, interestingly enough, uh, right away do that. 192 00:10:08,876 --> 00:10:11,216 And then I was like, Hey, home Depot. 193 00:10:11,456 --> 00:10:14,006 You're supposed to gimme all the stuff you have on me, and I know 194 00:10:14,006 --> 00:10:16,946 you have my purchase history because it's on your computers. 195 00:10:17,276 --> 00:10:20,546 When I go to your store and they're like, oh, oh yeah, sorry about that. 196 00:10:20,606 --> 00:10:21,026 Here you go. 197 00:10:21,146 --> 00:10:21,746 And they gave it to me. 198 00:10:21,806 --> 00:10:25,706 So I got a spreadsheet again of everything that I bought from Home Depot. 199 00:10:26,036 --> 00:10:31,226 Home Depot, which for the record is a lot, um, especially, especially since 200 00:10:31,226 --> 00:10:32,721 Lowe's changed their return policy. 201 00:10:32,936 --> 00:10:35,486 And I'm no longer shopping at Lowe's unless I have no other choice. 202 00:10:36,026 --> 00:10:38,756 Um, home Depot, if you would like to sponsor this podcast, 203 00:10:38,756 --> 00:10:40,046 please reach out to us. 204 00:10:41,981 --> 00:10:46,301 And Lowe's, if you would like to change your stupid new return policy, which 205 00:10:46,301 --> 00:10:51,641 for the record is if you go past 90 days, like so, just for those that 206 00:10:51,701 --> 00:10:53,531 don't buy at these stores, right? 207 00:10:53,591 --> 00:10:57,761 Home Depot, if you have a receipt, uh, you're going to, you can return. 208 00:10:57,761 --> 00:10:58,361 Right, period. 209 00:10:58,366 --> 00:11:01,601 If, if you don't have a receipt, you can even, you can generally, like within 210 00:11:01,601 --> 00:11:05,201 reason, you can do store credit, but even if you have a receipt, I literally 211 00:11:05,201 --> 00:11:08,741 have an experience from not that long ago where I came in and I had a project 212 00:11:08,741 --> 00:11:12,701 that I started like a year and a half before and it was a year and a half later 213 00:11:12,701 --> 00:11:17,261 and I, I never got to the project that I had like $300 worth of stuff, but I had 214 00:11:17,261 --> 00:11:19,121 the receipt, they gave me store credit. 215 00:11:19,496 --> 00:11:19,826 Right. 216 00:11:20,186 --> 00:11:20,876 Lowe's. 217 00:11:21,296 --> 00:11:25,046 I had a similar experience where I had a project that went 91 days, 218 00:11:25,046 --> 00:11:30,416 literally 91 days, and I went back with like $30 worth of stuff. 219 00:11:30,746 --> 00:11:33,506 And Lowe's was like, you're past our return window. 220 00:11:33,806 --> 00:11:35,786 We, and we no longer do store credit. 221 00:11:35,786 --> 00:11:37,946 And I was like, well, I no longer give you money. 222 00:11:38,426 --> 00:11:38,726 Um, anyway. 223 00:11:39,296 --> 00:11:39,866 No one cares. 224 00:11:39,896 --> 00:11:40,436 No one cares. 225 00:11:40,496 --> 00:11:41,636 Anyway, we're back to eu. 226 00:11:41,636 --> 00:11:42,536 We're back eu. 227 00:11:42,906 --> 00:11:43,126 So, 228 00:11:43,406 --> 00:11:43,916 So 229 00:11:44,066 --> 00:11:44,286 in 230 00:11:44,336 --> 00:11:45,026 yeah, go ahead. 231 00:11:45,206 --> 00:11:46,961 are more sort of. 232 00:11:47,261 --> 00:11:49,241 User privacy centric, right? 233 00:11:49,241 --> 00:11:51,791 They do worry about their data, right? 234 00:11:51,791 --> 00:11:55,421 This is where everyone, if you've ever seen the cookie banner popups, right? 235 00:11:55,421 --> 00:11:57,911 And you're like, why are they always asking me do I wanna 236 00:11:57,911 --> 00:11:59,531 share my data or accept cookies? 237 00:12:00,101 --> 00:12:00,491 Yeah, 238 00:12:00,551 --> 00:12:01,721 driven by the eu. 239 00:12:02,591 --> 00:12:03,371 yeah, yeah. 240 00:12:03,821 --> 00:12:07,511 And you know, we could, we could have a different discussion as to 241 00:12:07,511 --> 00:12:09,461 how effective the GDPR has been. 242 00:12:09,461 --> 00:12:12,791 There are some that feel that it really hasn't been as effective as they would 243 00:12:12,791 --> 00:12:16,631 like, but it still goes to the fact. 244 00:12:17,591 --> 00:12:23,861 That they view data privacy paramount and they view, in this case we're 245 00:12:23,861 --> 00:12:25,811 also talking about data sovereignty, 246 00:12:26,486 --> 00:12:26,846 Yep. 247 00:12:27,071 --> 00:12:29,171 Or digital sovereignty is actually the term. 248 00:12:29,771 --> 00:12:33,221 And so this, we're now actually talking about governmental data and they're saying 249 00:12:33,221 --> 00:12:38,591 they cannot trust storing that data, especially over on another, you know, 250 00:12:38,681 --> 00:12:41,171 basically specifically the US' technology. 251 00:12:41,336 --> 00:12:41,546 Yeah. 252 00:12:41,921 --> 00:12:43,271 And go ahead. 253 00:12:43,346 --> 00:12:47,546 And I think it's important, like as you mentioned, data sovereignty, right? 254 00:12:47,876 --> 00:12:53,996 It isn't just a matter of, hey, public cloud provider X has a Bitbucket or 255 00:12:53,996 --> 00:12:58,376 a place, a data center in Switzerland that I could store my data in. 256 00:12:59,406 --> 00:13:01,086 Because to them, that's not good enough. 257 00:13:01,086 --> 00:13:05,406 Because those US companies, those US employees, right, they 258 00:13:05,406 --> 00:13:07,986 have access to that data, right? 259 00:13:07,986 --> 00:13:11,166 Or to the, at least the infrastructure there, right? 260 00:13:11,166 --> 00:13:14,196 They have access to logs, maybe logs are being sent back to 261 00:13:14,196 --> 00:13:17,226 the US for troubleshooting, all the rest of that stuff. 262 00:13:17,226 --> 00:13:21,336 And therefore it doesn't meet that notion of data sovereignty, which a 263 00:13:21,521 --> 00:13:21,791 Yeah. 264 00:13:21,846 --> 00:13:23,586 European governments are expecting. 265 00:13:24,791 --> 00:13:25,241 Yeah. 266 00:13:25,241 --> 00:13:28,901 And, and this, and that's the stuff to which that I was referring to 267 00:13:28,901 --> 00:13:31,691 earlier where they're like, well, we thought they couldn't see the stuff. 268 00:13:31,691 --> 00:13:33,131 And no, they can totally see the stuff. 269 00:13:33,251 --> 00:13:33,551 Right. 270 00:13:33,731 --> 00:13:37,811 And I, I, I, before the call, I made this statement, and I'll make it again. 271 00:13:37,871 --> 00:13:39,671 I, I think they're seeing. 272 00:13:40,421 --> 00:13:46,061 Our like cloud facilities in, within those company, within those countries, 273 00:13:46,541 --> 00:13:49,236 the same way we see like TikTok. 274 00:13:50,486 --> 00:13:56,336 Which, which is run in the us but it's, you know, there is this, this, this 275 00:13:56,336 --> 00:14:00,686 connection to the Chinese government, which they say isn't there, but, you 276 00:14:00,686 --> 00:14:02,156 know, there's too big of a concern. 277 00:14:02,156 --> 00:14:05,276 And so, uh, you know, we, they passed a law that said that we 278 00:14:05,276 --> 00:14:06,296 were gonna get rid of TikTok. 279 00:14:06,686 --> 00:14:09,296 Uh, now there's a whole other thing going on on that, but I, 280 00:14:09,296 --> 00:14:12,836 I'm just saying that that's, they, they view it in the same distrust. 281 00:14:13,016 --> 00:14:16,016 And And from like a public cloud provider, right? 282 00:14:16,016 --> 00:14:17,666 Or any infrastructure provider, right? 283 00:14:17,666 --> 00:14:18,596 Or a SaaS service, right? 284 00:14:18,596 --> 00:14:20,606 It's not even just public cloud, right? 285 00:14:20,786 --> 00:14:25,796 It is difficult to sort of isolate and split up all of these various 286 00:14:25,946 --> 00:14:26,126 Yeah. 287 00:14:26,396 --> 00:14:29,936 centers and regions because you don't get the scale right? 288 00:14:29,936 --> 00:14:31,316 You don't get the efficiencies. 289 00:14:31,316 --> 00:14:34,886 You have to manage, have multiple ops teams and everything else, 290 00:14:34,886 --> 00:14:37,196 and it just becomes complicated. 291 00:14:38,426 --> 00:14:38,846 Yeah. 292 00:14:38,906 --> 00:14:39,536 Agreed. 293 00:14:39,536 --> 00:14:41,486 And the um. 294 00:14:42,026 --> 00:14:48,956 Uh, so the question that, that, that I, you know, that the question 295 00:14:48,956 --> 00:14:54,956 that, that we wanna talk about is, well, let's say I am a company or a 296 00:14:54,956 --> 00:15:04,016 governmental entity that wants to, um, that wants to be more sovereign, right? 297 00:15:04,016 --> 00:15:08,126 That wants to ensure that my data is being stored in a country that I 298 00:15:08,126 --> 00:15:10,796 control with privacy, that I control. 299 00:15:12,506 --> 00:15:15,266 You know, number one, how do I actually do that? 300 00:15:15,266 --> 00:15:19,346 And number two, how does this affect, like what I've been 301 00:15:19,346 --> 00:15:21,326 doing with regards to backup, 302 00:15:21,461 --> 00:15:21,881 All the 303 00:15:21,956 --> 00:15:22,346 right? 304 00:15:22,366 --> 00:15:22,566 about. 305 00:15:23,366 --> 00:15:24,536 All the stuff we talk about. 306 00:15:25,226 --> 00:15:30,056 So, um, so what there's, as I see it, there's basically 307 00:15:30,056 --> 00:15:32,276 two choices that you have. 308 00:15:32,996 --> 00:15:35,786 And I don't mean company names, I just mean two broad choices. 309 00:15:35,786 --> 00:15:40,706 One is you can in, in-house it, and the two is you can, you can find a 100%. 310 00:15:41,561 --> 00:15:48,446 You know, Europeans, uh, housed company, uh, to, to to store your data. 311 00:15:49,031 --> 00:15:53,021 And I think let's talk about the, let's talk about both of those. 312 00:15:53,081 --> 00:15:56,741 And so I just wanna talk through an example because it works easier 313 00:15:56,741 --> 00:15:58,181 for us and probably our listeners. 314 00:15:58,451 --> 00:16:00,941 Let's just assume that today you're on Microsoft 365. 315 00:16:01,636 --> 00:16:01,926 Yeah. 316 00:16:02,501 --> 00:16:02,891 Right. 317 00:16:03,011 --> 00:16:04,991 So you use them for email 318 00:16:04,991 --> 00:16:06,161 And, your productivity tools? 319 00:16:06,771 --> 00:16:07,581 They're two choices, right? 320 00:16:07,581 --> 00:16:10,041 So the first is you bring it on premises. 321 00:16:10,941 --> 00:16:14,481 you're deciding, okay, I'm gonna run it locally, I'm gonna manage everything. 322 00:16:14,871 --> 00:16:17,721 And this kind of reminds me of like the old days when people used to 323 00:16:17,721 --> 00:16:19,941 manage exchange on premises, right? 324 00:16:19,941 --> 00:16:20,121 And 325 00:16:20,166 --> 00:16:20,286 What 326 00:16:20,301 --> 00:16:20,871 saw how. 327 00:16:21,261 --> 00:16:21,581 is that? 328 00:16:22,781 --> 00:16:24,696 I, I like, I like lotus notes, 329 00:16:25,716 --> 00:16:28,566 Right, but they used to manage it on premises and then they're like, Hey, 330 00:16:28,566 --> 00:16:30,186 Microsoft, you have this cloud thing. 331 00:16:30,186 --> 00:16:33,456 I don't have to worry about patching and managing and everything else. 332 00:16:33,456 --> 00:16:36,366 I just manage my users and their emails. 333 00:16:36,911 --> 00:16:37,261 right? 334 00:16:37,356 --> 00:16:39,846 they moved over to Microsoft 365 and that's kind of like 335 00:16:39,906 --> 00:16:40,806 the one approach, right? 336 00:16:40,806 --> 00:16:41,856 The first approach you talked about 337 00:16:42,756 --> 00:16:43,056 Yeah. 338 00:16:43,746 --> 00:16:48,846 Is sort of that, okay, I'm gonna go find a local provider to host 339 00:16:48,846 --> 00:16:50,946 my stuff and they'll manage it. 340 00:16:51,831 --> 00:16:52,191 Right. 341 00:16:52,266 --> 00:16:57,636 I know we did a prior episode, I wanna say it was earlier this year, about a provider 342 00:16:57,906 --> 00:17:00,276 who offered exchange as a service. 343 00:17:00,771 --> 00:17:01,011 Mm-hmm. 344 00:17:01,146 --> 00:17:02,736 And we knew what happened with that. 345 00:17:02,856 --> 00:17:03,186 Right? 346 00:17:03,186 --> 00:17:03,366 And 347 00:17:03,471 --> 00:17:03,801 Yeah. 348 00:17:04,011 --> 00:17:04,761 Didn't go well, 349 00:17:04,806 --> 00:17:06,456 to, I'm referring to Rackspace. 350 00:17:06,951 --> 00:17:07,311 Right. 351 00:17:07,461 --> 00:17:07,791 right? 352 00:17:07,911 --> 00:17:10,461 ended up with a ransomware attack. 353 00:17:10,461 --> 00:17:14,451 They lost all of their end users data. 354 00:17:14,451 --> 00:17:19,161 It took weeks for them to even try to recover some of the mailboxes to Microsoft 355 00:17:19,161 --> 00:17:23,901 365, and in the end, they shut down their exchange as a service business. 356 00:17:24,426 --> 00:17:24,816 Right. 357 00:17:24,816 --> 00:17:25,086 Yeah. 358 00:17:25,086 --> 00:17:27,966 So this was hosted exchange, which is the one sort of 359 00:17:28,326 --> 00:17:30,936 cloudy type alternative to 365. 360 00:17:30,936 --> 00:17:34,776 If you don't wanna run exchange on-prem there, there are a number of companies 361 00:17:34,776 --> 00:17:38,256 that are doing Exchange as a service, and they were, they were one of the 362 00:17:38,256 --> 00:17:42,396 biggest, if not the biggest in the us And then, you know, poof happens. 363 00:17:42,741 --> 00:17:43,031 Yeah, 364 00:17:43,266 --> 00:17:45,006 and so what I would say is. 365 00:17:45,876 --> 00:17:49,656 No matter, you know, my opinion hasn't changed regarding like backup 366 00:17:49,656 --> 00:17:54,336 and data protection, no matter what you choose as an alternative to 367 00:17:54,366 --> 00:17:57,486 Microsoft 365 or Google Workspace. 368 00:17:58,026 --> 00:18:00,066 Um, is there anybody else like that? 369 00:18:00,216 --> 00:18:01,476 That's, that's pretty much it, right? 370 00:18:01,476 --> 00:18:02,316 In terms of, yeah. 371 00:18:02,346 --> 00:18:02,676 Yeah. 372 00:18:03,216 --> 00:18:07,026 Um, or, or any of the, or any other services, no matter what you choose. 373 00:18:07,431 --> 00:18:13,311 There needs to be third party backup of that thing because although 374 00:18:13,311 --> 00:18:15,471 you have a, you have a good story. 375 00:18:15,471 --> 00:18:17,091 You know, the Rackspace story of the, 376 00:18:17,266 --> 00:18:17,686 Mm-hmm. 377 00:18:17,901 --> 00:18:22,251 Hosted exchange and that one, that one was so kind of sad because it was 378 00:18:22,251 --> 00:18:26,721 all made possible because of a patch. 379 00:18:27,111 --> 00:18:33,801 That Rackspace could have installed but did not install, um, in a timely manner. 380 00:18:33,921 --> 00:18:39,351 And, um, and two weeks passed by between when the patch was available 381 00:18:39,381 --> 00:18:40,641 and when the attack happened. 382 00:18:40,791 --> 00:18:44,121 And they, they could have totally addressed that, but they did not. 383 00:18:44,211 --> 00:18:47,061 And so that's why mistakes happened, right? 384 00:18:47,061 --> 00:18:49,101 The and, and, and, you know, and, and, yeah. 385 00:18:49,101 --> 00:18:52,821 I mean, the fault to this Rackspace is because, who else's fault would it be? 386 00:18:53,271 --> 00:18:54,111 I don't know, like. 387 00:18:54,681 --> 00:18:57,621 How much blame there is, per se. 388 00:18:57,621 --> 00:18:57,891 Right. 389 00:18:57,891 --> 00:18:59,211 You know, did they do something wrong? 390 00:18:59,211 --> 00:19:00,921 Did they just make the wrong priorities? 391 00:19:01,071 --> 00:19:02,901 Were there other things that they were worried about? 392 00:19:03,471 --> 00:19:07,911 Did they, I know that in, in this case there was, there was, um, 393 00:19:08,451 --> 00:19:09,471 There was a workaround. 394 00:19:09,876 --> 00:19:11,106 Well, There was an issue with the first, 395 00:19:11,301 --> 00:19:12,801 there was an issue with the first batch. 396 00:19:12,801 --> 00:19:13,221 Right. 397 00:19:13,311 --> 00:19:17,931 Um, and there was a belief that this workaround would address it, but 398 00:19:17,931 --> 00:19:22,821 there was, there was a new problem with, so anyway, so there, there was. 399 00:19:23,466 --> 00:19:24,576 They made that choice. 400 00:19:25,236 --> 00:19:30,006 But the thing is, no matter who it is, 365 Rackspace, you know, 401 00:19:30,066 --> 00:19:34,686 whoever mistakes happen and. 402 00:19:35,631 --> 00:19:37,881 This is why we have the 3, 2, 1 rule, 403 00:19:37,961 --> 00:19:38,251 Yeah. 404 00:19:38,541 --> 00:19:38,961 right? 405 00:19:39,501 --> 00:19:43,251 That you, you have something else, you have another copy of your data that 406 00:19:43,251 --> 00:19:48,921 doesn't have the same risk profile, and so you don't, you don't use Microsoft 365 407 00:19:48,921 --> 00:19:54,111 and then just use their backup system, what, whatever backup system as I, as I 408 00:19:54,111 --> 00:20:00,111 make quotes in the air and you don't use hosted exchange on some provider and then. 409 00:20:00,361 --> 00:20:02,731 Not back it up and then just use their backup side. 410 00:20:02,761 --> 00:20:04,321 'cause some of them do offer backup. 411 00:20:04,321 --> 00:20:04,621 Right. 412 00:20:05,191 --> 00:20:08,641 You, you use third party backup. 413 00:20:08,641 --> 00:20:08,941 Right. 414 00:20:08,941 --> 00:20:11,641 And, and it's not just because you and I both used to work at a 415 00:20:11,641 --> 00:20:15,751 third party backup company, it's because it's basic backup design. 416 00:20:16,221 --> 00:20:21,276 Uh, and in fact we've also talked about a previous case of an EU cloud provider, 417 00:20:21,566 --> 00:20:21,986 Mm-hmm. 418 00:20:22,116 --> 00:20:25,356 backup and then lost their customer's data due to a fire. 419 00:20:25,911 --> 00:20:28,221 Yeah, that would maybe OVH. 420 00:20:28,401 --> 00:20:30,651 That was so, that was so bad. 421 00:20:30,831 --> 00:20:35,271 Uh, and that one, that one I'm definitely just, they did bad, right? 422 00:20:35,271 --> 00:20:39,201 Because they had the backup system literally in the same data center. 423 00:20:39,201 --> 00:20:41,001 And then, um, yeah. 424 00:20:41,001 --> 00:20:45,411 So once that happened, you know, they, it burned up both the, uh, both the 425 00:20:45,411 --> 00:20:48,591 primary and the backup at the same time, which is why you have it somewhere else. 426 00:20:48,801 --> 00:20:49,191 Yep. 427 00:20:49,401 --> 00:20:49,731 So 428 00:20:49,791 --> 00:20:50,721 Um, yeah. 429 00:20:50,931 --> 00:20:52,971 also think of a third scenario, which I 430 00:20:53,151 --> 00:20:53,481 Okay. 431 00:20:53,601 --> 00:20:54,921 gonna be the more problematic. 432 00:20:54,921 --> 00:20:58,731 So we haven't even really touched upon like the data protection aspects yet. 433 00:20:59,211 --> 00:20:59,451 Right. 434 00:20:59,451 --> 00:21:02,421 We're just looking at what are the options for replacing your production. 435 00:21:02,421 --> 00:21:04,401 Microsoft 365, in this example, I. 436 00:21:04,811 --> 00:21:05,231 Mm-hmm. 437 00:21:05,291 --> 00:21:10,181 think what becomes more challenging is if you look at a Microsoft 365 a Google 438 00:21:10,181 --> 00:21:14,261 workspace, or if you look at even like any of the public cloud providers, they're 439 00:21:14,261 --> 00:21:16,121 not just offering a single service, right? 440 00:21:16,121 --> 00:21:19,751 It's not just email for Microsoft 365, it's email, it's 441 00:21:19,751 --> 00:21:21,821 SharePoint, it's teams, it's. 442 00:21:22,056 --> 00:21:22,416 Right. 443 00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:23,196 Word, right? 444 00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:27,846 It's all of these things all rolled into one package, and now if I'm looking 445 00:21:27,846 --> 00:21:32,286 for an alternative, it's much harder for me to find that full package, 446 00:21:32,901 --> 00:21:33,321 Yeah. 447 00:21:33,606 --> 00:21:36,726 There are one provider that provides all of those capabilities. 448 00:21:36,726 --> 00:21:40,386 I might need to pick 3, 5, 7 providers 449 00:21:40,851 --> 00:21:41,301 Hmm. 450 00:21:41,376 --> 00:21:42,756 replace my functionality. 451 00:21:43,521 --> 00:21:45,321 And, you know, one of, one of the government. 452 00:21:45,591 --> 00:21:49,581 Uh, they were saying, you know, we're, we're moving off of, of 365. 453 00:21:49,581 --> 00:21:53,391 So no matter what you choose, whether you choose another SaaS 454 00:21:53,391 --> 00:21:55,161 provider, you choose hosted exchange. 455 00:21:55,251 --> 00:21:58,371 Like we're, we're just using exchange as a, you know, as a, as an example, 456 00:21:58,641 --> 00:22:00,201 if you decide to go with, with. 457 00:22:01,281 --> 00:22:04,311 There is no other provider of Microsoft 365. 458 00:22:04,611 --> 00:22:10,491 So assuming you have another service that is an alternative for the SaaS. 459 00:22:11,031 --> 00:22:12,891 Thing that you're trying to replace. 460 00:22:13,431 --> 00:22:17,361 Or you can have, like in this case, you can go from 365 to hosted exchange, 461 00:22:17,361 --> 00:22:21,471 but if you truly, in the case of that one government want to get rid of 462 00:22:21,471 --> 00:22:28,281 Microsoft and you wanna get rid of all us, even software, um, first off, I 463 00:22:28,281 --> 00:22:29,361 think you're really limiting yourself. 464 00:22:29,361 --> 00:22:30,139 But that's just my, that's just my 465 00:22:30,291 --> 00:22:30,591 Yeah. 466 00:22:30,771 --> 00:22:31,221 Well. 467 00:22:31,761 --> 00:22:32,181 you know? 468 00:22:32,331 --> 00:22:36,981 But, but, but anyway, let me just finish the thing that you, if you're 469 00:22:36,981 --> 00:22:38,841 gonna go on-prem with something. 470 00:22:39,621 --> 00:22:43,581 No matter where you put your data, that data still needs to be protected. 471 00:22:43,581 --> 00:22:45,711 That that's just, you know, 472 00:22:46,011 --> 00:22:46,341 Yeah. 473 00:22:46,551 --> 00:22:48,711 that's never gonna change, in my opinion. 474 00:22:49,146 --> 00:22:51,576 So I'm looking at my bookshelf right now and I have a book, I 475 00:22:51,576 --> 00:22:52,626 dunno if you've ever heard about it. 476 00:22:52,626 --> 00:22:53,826 It's called The World is Flat. 477 00:22:55,026 --> 00:22:57,516 It's a book from like the early two thousands where basically 478 00:22:57,591 --> 00:22:58,678 don't think it means what I think it means. 479 00:22:59,181 --> 00:23:01,461 It's basically talking about globalization, 480 00:23:01,786 --> 00:23:02,076 Yeah. 481 00:23:02,081 --> 00:23:02,241 Yeah. 482 00:23:02,571 --> 00:23:05,091 of globalization, it's no longer, okay? 483 00:23:05,091 --> 00:23:09,381 You have India's uh, tech industry, you have the US tech industry. 484 00:23:09,651 --> 00:23:13,281 It's companies are now spread throughout the world, and they benefit from that, 485 00:23:14,076 --> 00:23:14,526 Yeah. 486 00:23:14,601 --> 00:23:19,521 And so I wonder, even though the EU and governments and companies and 487 00:23:19,521 --> 00:23:22,131 everyone else wants that independence, 488 00:23:22,361 --> 00:23:22,781 Mm-hmm. 489 00:23:23,301 --> 00:23:27,171 how feasible is it if you're taking open source software like a database? 490 00:23:28,056 --> 00:23:28,476 Right. 491 00:23:28,776 --> 00:23:32,016 That might, that database, the provider might be in the US if 492 00:23:32,016 --> 00:23:33,816 you're picking up chips, right? 493 00:23:33,816 --> 00:23:35,436 Where are those chips manufactured? 494 00:23:35,676 --> 00:23:35,976 Right? 495 00:23:35,976 --> 00:23:37,386 What about those hard drives? 496 00:23:37,596 --> 00:23:39,456 What about all these other things, right? 497 00:23:39,456 --> 00:23:43,146 It's like how far up or down the supply chain do you go to 498 00:23:43,146 --> 00:23:45,186 say, yes, I'm truly independent? 499 00:23:45,996 --> 00:23:46,986 Yeah, I think. 500 00:23:47,961 --> 00:23:54,861 That you could say, like, indicate, again, going back to Microsoft, uh, 365, I think 501 00:23:55,221 --> 00:23:58,401 you're definitely more, let's say, let's say you found out you really couldn't 502 00:23:58,401 --> 00:24:03,111 get rid of the, the functionality of what is, what used to be called Exchange. 503 00:24:04,011 --> 00:24:08,661 Um, I do think you could be a little more independent by running exchange 504 00:24:08,661 --> 00:24:16,611 yourself or using a European based, um, hosted exchange provider. 505 00:24:17,406 --> 00:24:21,186 You're still relying on the Microsoft software, but 506 00:24:21,396 --> 00:24:21,966 You have more 507 00:24:22,266 --> 00:24:27,726 short, short of supply chain attacks, I, I, I think it's not, it's nowhere near the 508 00:24:27,726 --> 00:24:32,556 same as using a US-based cloud provider that happens to be headquartered in 509 00:24:33,066 --> 00:24:33,246 the eu. 510 00:24:33,771 --> 00:24:37,851 But I think though if I Microsoft, I'm trying to push all of my customers 511 00:24:38,331 --> 00:24:40,881 existing and new to use, Microsoft 365. 512 00:24:41,111 --> 00:24:41,531 Mm-hmm. 513 00:24:41,661 --> 00:24:46,491 think I will really put as much focus on the on-prem version with all the 514 00:24:46,491 --> 00:24:51,561 capabilities, with all the patches, with all the like functionality that 515 00:24:51,561 --> 00:24:55,221 an enterprise would require from compliance security and everything else? 516 00:24:55,616 --> 00:24:58,046 Or would I just sort of like check the box and say, yep, I have 517 00:24:58,046 --> 00:25:00,116 something, or whatever I had before. 518 00:25:00,116 --> 00:25:03,866 I'm just gonna kind of support it on an ongoing basis without really improving it. 519 00:25:05,276 --> 00:25:09,712 Um, there was a lot of questions all at once, but I think what I, I, I, I 520 00:25:09,717 --> 00:25:11,631 agree with you that it's a concern. 521 00:25:12,171 --> 00:25:13,131 Having said that. 522 00:25:13,986 --> 00:25:19,270 If my choices are a product that I already know and I'm used to and 523 00:25:19,270 --> 00:25:23,052 a random SaaS product , which I'm guessing is not going to be the same, 524 00:25:23,082 --> 00:25:24,792 it might be better, I don't know. 525 00:25:24,912 --> 00:25:27,372 But there will be a learning curve that will be an issue, and there will 526 00:25:27,372 --> 00:25:30,372 also be the issue of backing it up, 527 00:25:30,387 --> 00:25:30,597 Yeah. 528 00:25:30,672 --> 00:25:31,032 right? 529 00:25:31,992 --> 00:25:35,172 I, I'm just saying that I, I, it, it still might be better. 530 00:25:35,337 --> 00:25:35,547 Yeah. 531 00:25:35,607 --> 00:25:37,077 And the learning curve, right? 532 00:25:37,377 --> 00:25:42,207 It's the same thing that when we talk about switching backup vendors, When you 533 00:25:42,207 --> 00:25:48,117 go from say, net backup to, uh, rubrik or Cohesity or whatever else, right? 534 00:25:48,537 --> 00:25:52,557 There is sort of, you need to relearn certain processes, how the 535 00:25:52,557 --> 00:25:56,397 technology works, and you may lose some functionality, but that may be 536 00:25:56,397 --> 00:25:59,517 okay for you if you're not using it or you're willing to live without 537 00:25:59,752 --> 00:26:00,102 Right. 538 00:26:00,357 --> 00:26:00,567 Right? 539 00:26:00,567 --> 00:26:01,407 And I think the same 540 00:26:01,497 --> 00:26:01,797 Yeah. 541 00:26:02,167 --> 00:26:03,457 Is here as well, right? 542 00:26:03,487 --> 00:26:07,927 If you are switching from Microsoft 365 to say Libra office, right? 543 00:26:07,927 --> 00:26:09,907 Maybe it doesn't matter, right? 544 00:26:09,907 --> 00:26:11,677 Depending on the features and functionality you're 545 00:26:11,677 --> 00:26:13,567 using, but maybe it does, 546 00:26:13,642 --> 00:26:13,932 Yeah, 547 00:26:14,407 --> 00:26:14,977 I think it's 548 00:26:15,042 --> 00:26:15,332 yeah, 549 00:26:15,487 --> 00:26:20,167 because I don't know if people have really done like that comparison sheet, right? 550 00:26:20,347 --> 00:26:23,347 Of Microsoft 365 versus X, 551 00:26:24,752 --> 00:26:25,042 yeah. 552 00:26:25,887 --> 00:26:27,327 X is a different thing. 553 00:26:28,897 --> 00:26:30,157 You know what I meant? 554 00:26:30,687 --> 00:26:31,467 I know what you meant. 555 00:26:32,337 --> 00:26:32,787 Um, 556 00:26:33,327 --> 00:26:34,017 Because though that 557 00:26:34,047 --> 00:26:34,347 but 558 00:26:34,557 --> 00:26:35,787 never comes up for people, right? 559 00:26:35,787 --> 00:26:36,057 It's like, 560 00:26:36,147 --> 00:26:39,867 you have to say y now you have to say Y You can't say X, X is a brand, 561 00:26:40,107 --> 00:26:40,677 Yes, 562 00:26:40,797 --> 00:26:48,142 you have to say Y Um, I still call it Twitter anyway, but the, yeah, and, 563 00:26:48,147 --> 00:26:54,627 and, and, and, and I guess it, it, it speaks to, and these are smart people. 564 00:26:55,512 --> 00:26:57,672 And they know this, they know what you just said. 565 00:26:57,822 --> 00:27:00,462 They're, they're well aware that, you know, 566 00:27:00,642 --> 00:27:03,822 they know is not the same as Microsoft Office. 567 00:27:04,152 --> 00:27:05,982 And, you know, maybe it's close. 568 00:27:06,072 --> 00:27:07,122 Um, I don't know. 569 00:27:07,392 --> 00:27:09,012 But they know whatever the difference is. 570 00:27:09,012 --> 00:27:10,362 They know this, they know this stuff. 571 00:27:10,362 --> 00:27:12,462 They, they looked at it, they're like, you know what? 572 00:27:12,642 --> 00:27:13,512 It's good enough. 573 00:27:14,022 --> 00:27:16,392 And, um, um. 574 00:27:16,602 --> 00:27:17,652 production use, 575 00:27:19,062 --> 00:27:19,992 Well, I'm just saying that, 576 00:27:20,052 --> 00:27:20,262 yeah. 577 00:27:20,292 --> 00:27:24,942 but Well, my, my point is they've made that decision and what I'm saying is it, 578 00:27:24,942 --> 00:27:29,892 it just goes back to the beginning of the discussion that we were having that 579 00:27:29,952 --> 00:27:31,872 how big of a deal they think this is. 580 00:27:31,992 --> 00:27:35,442 They're like, we even, even if it's half the functionality, 581 00:27:35,922 --> 00:27:38,772 we're willing to take that hit. 582 00:27:39,627 --> 00:27:43,617 Because of the fact that we do not like the fact that the US 583 00:27:43,617 --> 00:27:47,457 government is, is, has access to potential access to our data. 584 00:27:47,547 --> 00:27:48,927 okay, so here's the question then. 585 00:27:49,257 --> 00:27:51,387 So that's from like the production side, right? 586 00:27:51,387 --> 00:27:53,607 So I'm deploying it across my users. 587 00:27:54,177 --> 00:27:54,357 Mm-hmm. 588 00:27:54,357 --> 00:27:57,357 wonder though, if they've thought or had the conversation about 589 00:27:57,357 --> 00:27:59,997 what do we do from a backup, 590 00:28:00,177 --> 00:28:20,667 Mm-hmm. 591 00:28:20,742 --> 00:28:24,072 and maybe it's not needed anything specific, but. 592 00:28:25,587 --> 00:28:27,387 Well let, well, let me just answer your question. 593 00:28:27,387 --> 00:28:28,287 The answer is no. 594 00:28:28,437 --> 00:28:29,637 They absolutely have not. 595 00:28:30,387 --> 00:28:33,927 Like it just if, if my time in this industry has shown me anything, it's 596 00:28:33,927 --> 00:28:35,217 that no one thinks about this question. 597 00:28:35,217 --> 00:28:37,167 That's why, that's why we have to think about it, right? 598 00:28:37,167 --> 00:28:38,067 No one thinks about this. 599 00:28:38,307 --> 00:28:39,687 They're like, we have to make this change. 600 00:28:39,867 --> 00:28:41,277 And then boom, they make the change. 601 00:28:41,517 --> 00:28:44,367 And then it's like, you know, and then nobody's raising their hand and 602 00:28:44,367 --> 00:28:48,267 go, you know, nobody wants to be the person to stop the, the project, right? 603 00:28:48,687 --> 00:28:50,877 Um, and say, Hey, you know, are we backing it up? 604 00:28:51,207 --> 00:28:52,077 So here's a question. 605 00:28:52,077 --> 00:28:54,387 So let's say that someone's made the decision, right? 606 00:28:54,387 --> 00:28:56,817 There's no questions about it, right? 607 00:28:56,817 --> 00:28:58,797 It's like, okay, we have to march forward on this. 608 00:28:59,007 --> 00:29:01,347 Yes, we understand there's gonna be reduced functionality. 609 00:29:02,127 --> 00:29:06,447 As a backup person, what are some of my options or some of the things 610 00:29:06,447 --> 00:29:10,197 I should be thinking about in terms of, okay, we're already flipping. 611 00:29:10,497 --> 00:29:12,777 What do I need to do to be able to protect this? 612 00:29:12,777 --> 00:29:17,067 Like are there options or things I could be using or thinking about? 613 00:29:18,477 --> 00:29:22,407 Because I kind of think about this the same way as like previously 614 00:29:22,407 --> 00:29:26,457 we didn't have backup for like all the different databases, right. 615 00:29:26,457 --> 00:29:27,477 Or applications. 616 00:29:27,717 --> 00:29:27,927 And 617 00:29:28,212 --> 00:29:28,572 Yeah. 618 00:29:28,737 --> 00:29:31,527 those days, people still managed to back it up, right? 619 00:29:31,527 --> 00:29:33,837 It may not have been efficient, right? 620 00:29:33,837 --> 00:29:35,487 But it was still doable. 621 00:29:35,487 --> 00:29:39,627 And so just wanted to get your thoughts on what should people backup admins be 622 00:29:39,627 --> 00:29:43,977 thinking about as they're looking at these new applications coming online? 623 00:29:44,802 --> 00:29:45,822 Well, I think that. 624 00:29:46,602 --> 00:29:52,872 It's gonna be similar to what we've seen in other spaces where you're going, 625 00:29:52,902 --> 00:29:56,592 it's, it's the, the one step forward, two steps back kind of thing, right? 626 00:29:56,802 --> 00:30:01,992 So they're like, so we're gonna step forward in a digital sovereignty. 627 00:30:02,817 --> 00:30:09,537 Situation, but we're gonna step back in terms of backup and recovery, right? 628 00:30:09,537 --> 00:30:12,057 So you, when you say, what did we do back in the day? 629 00:30:12,057 --> 00:30:16,077 Well, back in the day before there were database agents, you ran a dump 630 00:30:16,077 --> 00:30:19,767 and you, you dumped it to, like, you either dumped it to tape or 631 00:30:19,767 --> 00:30:23,817 you dumped it to disc, and then you backed it up, you backed up that disc. 632 00:30:23,847 --> 00:30:24,267 Right? 633 00:30:24,327 --> 00:30:25,617 This is what I'm talking about at. 634 00:30:25,647 --> 00:30:27,087 Going forward and going backwards. 635 00:30:27,087 --> 00:30:27,387 Right. 636 00:30:27,717 --> 00:30:30,597 Uh, this was the same thing, like this is the same opinion 637 00:30:30,597 --> 00:30:32,037 that I had about containers, 638 00:30:32,087 --> 00:30:32,507 Mm-hmm. 639 00:30:32,637 --> 00:30:32,937 right? 640 00:30:32,937 --> 00:30:34,377 The whole concept of containers. 641 00:30:34,377 --> 00:30:38,067 It sounds fascinating, it sounds it's all great, but like, how 642 00:30:38,067 --> 00:30:39,237 are we backing this stuff up? 643 00:30:39,237 --> 00:30:41,427 And they start talking about scripts and stuff like that. 644 00:30:41,427 --> 00:30:43,287 Oh my, oh my God, it hurts my brain. 645 00:30:43,707 --> 00:30:44,097 Right? 646 00:30:44,337 --> 00:30:45,417 It's doable. 647 00:30:47,052 --> 00:30:51,882 I'll, I'll, I guess the only thing, the one thing we just want to get across is 648 00:30:52,452 --> 00:30:53,802 just make sure you're thinking about it. 649 00:30:53,802 --> 00:30:56,082 Make sure you have a solution, whatever it is. 650 00:30:56,262 --> 00:30:59,352 Maybe it's not as good as just paying for a third party service 651 00:30:59,352 --> 00:31:00,612 that automatically backs it up. 652 00:31:01,332 --> 00:31:07,242 But, um, but just make sure that you're not just picking a product 653 00:31:07,422 --> 00:31:09,522 just because it's not US based. 654 00:31:10,242 --> 00:31:14,502 Um, and, um, I mean there are a lot of open source. 655 00:31:15,267 --> 00:31:17,667 Productivity tools, open source alternatives to a 656 00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:19,047 lot of products out there. 657 00:31:19,677 --> 00:31:20,127 Um. 658 00:31:20,517 --> 00:31:24,147 There isn't really this concept of open source cloud service. 659 00:31:24,152 --> 00:31:25,797 That's, that's not really a thing. 660 00:31:26,337 --> 00:31:28,797 But you, there are open source backup products. 661 00:31:28,797 --> 00:31:32,277 There are open source office products, there are open source, a lot of things. 662 00:31:32,307 --> 00:31:32,697 Right. 663 00:31:33,237 --> 00:31:36,147 Um, and I, you know, I use some of them, right? 664 00:31:36,147 --> 00:31:39,117 I, I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for a tool that 665 00:31:39,117 --> 00:31:40,707 I use once or twice a year. 666 00:31:40,737 --> 00:31:41,037 Right. 667 00:31:41,577 --> 00:31:43,437 So I have, I have, um. 668 00:31:44,047 --> 00:31:48,667 Um, gimp, for example, I don't have Adobe Photoshop, I have gimp. 669 00:31:49,207 --> 00:31:54,607 Um, and, uh, but now it, you know, I use, um, Canva and I'm paying for that. 670 00:31:54,607 --> 00:31:57,307 But, but yeah, so I, that's, that's all I really just want 671 00:31:57,307 --> 00:31:58,897 people to think about, right? 672 00:31:59,647 --> 00:31:59,937 Yeah. 673 00:32:00,067 --> 00:32:00,577 Um, 674 00:32:01,587 --> 00:32:06,117 And so I guess one other question I had for you is, we've always talked 675 00:32:06,117 --> 00:32:10,887 about how most enterprises back up, like the major applications, 676 00:32:11,122 --> 00:32:11,542 mm-hmm. 677 00:32:11,727 --> 00:32:14,157 else sort of gets ignored, right? 678 00:32:14,307 --> 00:32:17,157 All these secondary applications, open source stuff, right? 679 00:32:17,157 --> 00:32:19,137 It's like everyone do your own thing. 680 00:32:19,892 --> 00:32:20,312 Mm-hmm. 681 00:32:20,487 --> 00:32:24,837 feel like with this push there is a possibility for new businesses 682 00:32:24,837 --> 00:32:28,407 to be started new focus to be, uh. 683 00:32:29,862 --> 00:32:33,942 To be placed on all those other things which have been left on 684 00:32:33,942 --> 00:32:38,532 the side of the road to sort of be ignored all these years, all these 685 00:32:38,532 --> 00:32:40,512 applications and all that data that's 686 00:32:40,557 --> 00:32:40,617 Yeah. 687 00:32:40,842 --> 00:32:42,432 in environments, but 688 00:32:42,432 --> 00:32:42,882 Yeah, 689 00:32:42,912 --> 00:32:44,232 never been seen as important. 690 00:32:44,922 --> 00:32:48,372 well, having, you know, for, for a long time I was pushing backup 691 00:32:48,372 --> 00:32:49,812 companies to support stuff. 692 00:32:50,262 --> 00:32:53,232 Then I worked for a backup company and I was pushing them to support stuff. 693 00:32:53,502 --> 00:32:57,027 The answer really all comes down to are there enough people I. Are there 694 00:32:57,027 --> 00:33:00,177 enough companies, entities that are willing to pay for this thing that 695 00:33:00,177 --> 00:33:03,387 will pay for my development to go figure out how to back up this thing. 696 00:33:03,717 --> 00:33:04,047 Right. 697 00:33:04,227 --> 00:33:08,757 And also, a second question, is the company or open source development 698 00:33:08,757 --> 00:33:12,327 group that's behind this particular product, are they friendly? 699 00:33:12,327 --> 00:33:13,587 Are they, can I work with them? 700 00:33:13,587 --> 00:33:17,337 Can I, can, will they gimme an API, uh, and access to that? 701 00:33:17,337 --> 00:33:21,477 Or will they be more like Microsoft 365 that fought for years? 702 00:33:22,047 --> 00:33:25,377 Um, you know, and basically the backup vendors had to. 703 00:33:26,217 --> 00:33:28,317 Pretend to be WebEx. 704 00:33:28,647 --> 00:33:33,327 They used OWA, they just pretended to be a user and that's how they backed up 365. 705 00:33:34,227 --> 00:33:39,357 Um, so if, if, if the open source, if there's enough people that are using 706 00:33:39,357 --> 00:33:43,437 it and, or not just open source, but, but let's just say just a product 707 00:33:43,437 --> 00:33:48,357 that's EU centric or EU based and, and there's a lot of 'em, right? 708 00:33:48,357 --> 00:33:49,947 Or just not, not. 709 00:33:50,352 --> 00:33:51,012 US based. 710 00:33:51,552 --> 00:33:51,762 Yeah. 711 00:33:52,212 --> 00:33:52,662 Right. 712 00:33:53,022 --> 00:33:57,642 Um, uh, oddly enough, um, one of the other countries where a lot of 713 00:33:57,642 --> 00:33:59,972 technology comes from is Israel, 714 00:34:00,242 --> 00:34:00,452 Yep. 715 00:34:00,662 --> 00:34:02,432 which has its own challenges right now. 716 00:34:02,552 --> 00:34:02,972 Right. 717 00:34:03,422 --> 00:34:08,972 Um, so again, this is, this is why all these countries are thinking, 718 00:34:08,972 --> 00:34:12,302 Hey, let's, you know, let's, let's bring stuff back home. 719 00:34:12,872 --> 00:34:16,232 It's just that thing with your comment about the world is flat. 720 00:34:16,592 --> 00:34:17,252 Um. 721 00:34:18,122 --> 00:34:19,802 It's true, right? 722 00:34:19,892 --> 00:34:22,652 Um, how it's gonna be hard for you to do it. 723 00:34:22,652 --> 00:34:25,952 So just, and all I wanna do is just whatever you do, I don't care what you 724 00:34:25,952 --> 00:34:27,422 do, just make sure you backend it up. 725 00:34:27,572 --> 00:34:27,932 That's all. 726 00:34:27,992 --> 00:34:28,352 That's all. 727 00:34:30,242 --> 00:34:35,642 Um, you know, 'cause it's, it's one thing to sort of deal with the issues of having 728 00:34:35,642 --> 00:34:39,032 to move data and applications and relearn everything, all that kind of stuff. 729 00:34:39,032 --> 00:34:43,412 Just make sure you, that you don't end up then losing your data because of, yeah. 730 00:34:45,332 --> 00:34:45,992 All right. 731 00:34:46,502 --> 00:34:47,552 I think we covered this. 732 00:34:47,642 --> 00:34:48,392 Um, 733 00:34:48,557 --> 00:34:50,747 Do, was there anything else you wanted to touch upon this, 734 00:34:51,752 --> 00:34:53,222 no, um, 735 00:34:54,107 --> 00:34:54,317 by 736 00:34:54,362 --> 00:34:55,382 I guess that's pretty much it. 737 00:34:55,442 --> 00:34:55,772 Yeah. 738 00:34:56,012 --> 00:35:00,032 I should mention, I know we did talk heavily about Microsoft 365 in this 739 00:35:00,242 --> 00:35:00,662 Yeah, 740 00:35:00,812 --> 00:35:01,922 but that was just an example. 741 00:35:01,922 --> 00:35:05,282 It could be any cloud provider, it could be any SaaS provider, right? 742 00:35:05,282 --> 00:35:05,672 It could be 743 00:35:05,702 --> 00:35:05,972 We just. 744 00:35:06,152 --> 00:35:06,332 that 745 00:35:06,452 --> 00:35:08,972 Yeah, we, we used it for two reasons. 746 00:35:08,972 --> 00:35:12,392 One is it's an example that everybody knows, and also it was specifically 747 00:35:12,392 --> 00:35:15,152 mentioned in one of the articles, we'll, we'll put some links to these articles. 748 00:35:15,572 --> 00:35:21,272 Um, and, uh, that they specifically, was it the Dutch government that they were 749 00:35:21,272 --> 00:35:25,712 specifically saying that they're, they're gonna move from 365 to Libra office. 750 00:35:26,612 --> 00:35:27,752 Um, anyway. 751 00:35:27,902 --> 00:35:28,382 All right. 752 00:35:28,982 --> 00:35:30,242 Thanks for the chat as always. 753 00:35:31,097 --> 00:35:32,182 Anytime Curtis. 754 00:35:33,467 --> 00:35:36,797 And, uh, thanks to the listeners, you know, you're, why we do this? 755 00:35:37,307 --> 00:35:38,152 That is a wrap.