So much of your life and your career is defined by your job and your position.

Who are you going to be if you don't have that job and that role?

Josh Willey, true veteran.

He's climbed the ranks from industrial engineer to CEO, weathered entrepreneurial storms, and emerged with a wealth of hard earned wisdom.

When did you realize that people follow the example you set or in the direction you give them?

The last thing I want to do is micromanage people and undermine them and do things around them.

There's a message you're sending too, that you don't trust them or you don't think they're capable of operating.

I'm where I am today because of them, not necessarily because of me.

I'm wondering if you have advice for other leaders.

The key advice would be, are you.

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Welcome back to lead the team with number one bestselling author and in demand corporate trainer, Ben Fanning.

On this podcast, the world's most innovative senior leaders share their top success strategies to motivate your direct reports, cultivate your top leaders and accelerate your career.

Let's get started.

Here's Ben.

Hey there Lee, the team agent.

Welcome back to another great episode.

Today we're diving into the trenches of the protein industry with a true veteran.

He's climbed the ranks from industrial engineer to CEO, weathered entrepreneurial storms and emerged with a wealth of hard earned learn wisdom.

With 22 years of experience, a journey through Tyson Foods in Smithfield, and a relentless, consistent drive for operational excellence, he's here to share his insights on leadership, resilience and the future of food.

Please welcome the CEO of Allotrade Foods, Josh.

Willie.

And great to be here.

Thank you for reaching out to me and asking me to be on.

You've had a lot of great leaders on and I'm honored to be amongst the list.

Well man, you are a star in this world and it's so cool also to have someone on that's living in the state of Alabama, not far from where I grew up.

My parents did so yeah, I, I Won't give you a roll Tide, because I know you're Arkansas, but.

All right, it's all SEC stuff here, so.

That's right.

When did you realize that people follow the example you set more than the direction you give them?

Well, so I've got to start by saying I've had a lot of really great leaders in my life and my career that have set great examples for me.

And really, I'm where I am today because of them.

Not necessarily because of me, but this particular story, quick one, easy one, that kind of resonates with me and I've used over the years.

But it was an example and a lesson that a leader taught me that I think is pretty powerful.

And so a young leader seems like more is better and too much is never enough, and constantly working is the way you're going to get to the next level.

So I would take vacation.

Not often, but when I did, I found myself with my computer working and trying to stay caught up and in tune with the business and making sure that I didn't miss anything.

And so, of course, my.

This particular leader, my boss at the time, was wise to all this and didn't.

Didn't reprimand me early on and didn't do it when I was on that particular vacation.

But when we got back, I was back in the office.

And, you know, we're talking about vacation, telling the story, what we did, how the trip was.

We get to the end.

He says, josh, you've got to quit working when you're on vacation, because all you're doing is telling your people that it's okay.

Everybody underneath you thinks that the expectation is when they're on vacation, that they need to stay plugged in and they need to be working.

And you're setting a poor example.

And so it still sticks with me today.

And that was immediately what hit my.

Hit my mind that I call on often now.

It really liberated me, too, as a leader because I could take a vacation and not have to worry about being plugged in.

And that took a little work to really release.

But I think it comes with time and maturity, and I'm big on making sure that we don't bother people when they're on vacation and that they're allowed time with their family to disconnect and come back recharged.

And just a simple early leadership lesson for me that I think is.

Is a great point.

Everybody should live by that is not an easy thing to do.

So, number one, were you able to immediately execute that thing or did that take A lot of practice and discipline.

Yeah, it took a lot of practice.

And luckily I had a manager, a leader that was willing to.

To take on any responsibility that might have needed my assistance.

And I think I was a plant manager at this time, you know, early on.

And, and so, no, yeah, I mean, it took some time, of course, but I think once I realized that I really needed a break, my, My, My family was being punished on some level because I was, you know, we're going.

Spending some money, taking a trip, trying to disconnect and spend some time together because I'm also, you know, when I'm at home, I'm working hours, long days, weekends, and it's really hard to unplug.

So.

But I'm there now, and it's, you know, maybe it's a function of my position and where I'm at, my career, but I'd like to think it's just me being able to truly disconnect and set the example for other people that when they, when they go, they need to go and get away.

So when you implemented this, and it sounds like you've talked about, like, this personal challenge that and this advice that you've gotten that was impactful, did you notice that your team quickly got better at disconnecting, or did it take them a while to make that change?

For disconnecting on vacation, I think they.

Probably were a little quicker than me, and I think, you know, they was probably already good at it.

It was just.

It was more about the optics and the example I was setting as a leader.

You know, I mean, there's, There's a message you're sending to that you don't trust them or you don't think they're capable of operating.

And there's just so many, so many different ways you could approach it.

But I think they just probably appreciated it more than anything that, that, you know, I trusted them, I stepped away.

I came back a better person, recharged.

And that's, that's really what vacation is.

And I always hated having to, you know, sometimes you have to call people back in on vacation.

That's.

That's not something you want to do ever.

You always want to get people the right basement ask for.

And so, yeah, so many good messages.

And there's like, the personal experience and knowing that everything you do, your actions speak louder than words and come through the vacation, but also, like, I'm experiencing, like, on another level too, of.

And for the leaders listening, are you having the conversation about how to take vacation with your team and I think a lot of leaders kind of just leave it to chance, like, oh, they're taking vacation, okay.

And then they left the person going on vacation say, well, I'm on vacation but I'm really available.

Or I'll be checking my email once a day.

And just like this, it almost, it sounds like you're proposing that, hey, this is a leadership conversation that leaders need to have with their teams and their people to kind of set the culture for vacation taking, to set the standard, kind of work that out.

When somebody's on vacation, I make a point to tell everybody else that remains at work not to contact that person.

Come to me, you know, don't, if something's wrong, don't reach out to them.

And we've got some really good people in our organization that and our culture here.

Not, not that the other cultures I was a part of were bad by any means at all.

But you know, we've got a culture here at Alitrade that is about a really good work life balance and promotes people being off and away.

And we've cross trained and we've got leaders that step up and take roles but still have to say, do not bother them.

We can handle it.

If it gets really bad, we'll come together and figure it out and we'll make a decision on whether or not we call that individual.

Yeah.

So, so good.

So lesson there, prioritize it.

Realize your actions speak louder than words.

And if you're the CEO who's like, don't work on vacation, but yet I'm working on vacation.

It's, it's a mixed message and it dilutes it, it dilutes your leadership message so much.

And I think about parenting too.

It's the same thing with, you know, like if you're telling your kids not to do something, but then you're doing it.

It's funny, there's, there's so many ways to use that example of setting the example versus words.

I mean, children, you're right.

I mean, they respond to what you're doing, not necessarily what you're saying or telling.

So you're known for saying people first, chicken second.

So what do you mean by leading with that adage?

Obviously, I'm in the chicken business in the protein industry, have been for a long time.

And people, people are so important to our business and chicken is important too.

But the point is we're going to prioritize our people over chicken on the floor or getting chicken out the door.

Getting chicken in the door, whatever it may be pertaining to the product, the safety and well being of our team members, our employees, our employee owners.

Now at Alexrades and esop, the priority and, and they're going to come first in every decision we make.

Now that's not to say that our customers are, our customers are very, very, very close second, but our people are a priority.

And, and that's just, that's been my mantra for, for years and years through this, through my career and through this industry is what we got to do right by our people if we're going to expect to win every day.

So when's the time for you that, that really paid off because it's so easy to say, well it pays off when we look at the, get the protein out, you know, we do it well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know, everybody, everybody benefits when the product's great, but sometimes when you reverse it, it can be different.

Well, they're taking, people want to take a vacation, but we're late so we got to get stuff out.

And so we're balancing all that.

So curious from your standpoint, since you've been really focused on throughout your career, when's a time where maybe you double down on that in a surprising way that people didn't expect and it's still.

Deliberate results with regards to safety.

In my plant manager role, we were not in a great spot at the location I was at in terms of safety.

Very high social, recordable numbers, illnesses, first aids.

We weren't being proactive, we were being much more reactive to people getting hurt.

And so I wish I could take full credit for the transformation, but it was really the organization I was with, their persistent, just fanatical approach to improving safety and really taking care of our people.

And so fortunately I was, I was, I was a part of that as a, as a, as a leader in the company.

And we were able to, to, you know, really rally the team we made, we made safety much more emotional to, to us and we start thinking about the fact that these people have been entrusted to you to run your business, but they're there to earn a living for their family and they go home to possibly three, four or five people and when they get hurt, it impacts their life.

Not, not just at work, but at home.

And so you know, when you really start thinking about the, the impact you have on people and the plants that we run and the work we do, that's when it really starts to hit home.

And so we, we just, we just took safety to a new level in your plan and it has stayed with me through my career and, and I've changed a lot of things here at Alitrade.

Again, not that they will, not that they're bad, but we focus on weekly safety improvements to stay ahead of getting people or making sure that people don't get hurt.

But in this particular operation we really 60% in the first year and then we just continued to cascade down, down and down.

I was there for about five years and every year, year after year we just reduced and, and really I think it, you know, when people come to work and they feel safe, their basic needs are met, they've got good leadership, you know, they're, they're generally going to perform and they're going to stay with you, you're going to retain them.

And, and it just, it just really improves the entire industrial manufacturing ecosystem.

And everything starts to work and click and, and so you know, it builds trust, it, it improves you know, performance obviously.

So, and just that caring, you know, when you, when you're working on safety and you're sincere about it, the people recognize it and it's, and it goes beyond safety into like they care about me as a person and as, as a, as a worker.

And they're not just a number.

And again that's where things just start to come along.

So to me ethically that makes a lot of sense.

Like it's the right thing to do to focus on safety as a leader with, with pressure to have everybody perform.

Did the numbers take a hit initially, performance wise?

Because when you hear safety you think about, well, there's more, it could slow production, more red tape, more meetings, more measuring and you're kind of doing it in the name of long term performance.

Or did you, how did you navigate that?

No, there were no, it never hurt performance.

I think if anything it might have costed us more money because we were spending money on fixing things that were broke and should have never been that way.

But you just, you start, you really start to prioritize it.

You look for things, you fix them, you spend the money, you get better knives, you get better tools, you put guards up.

You know, you just do all these things.

So it, there might be a short term financial impact, but it wasn't significant for any of us.

And it never, that spin never outweighed the motivation to become a safer company and operation.

People are moving.

Anytime people are moving in a location, there could be like repetitive use injury.

You know, there could just be, you know, things can happen in our industry.

Is in torch for that, right?

We're, we've got Knives, we've got variability, we've got, it's cold, it's wet.

We've got machines that are designed to cut flesh and, and a lot of repetitive motion.

So it's almost an inherent part of what we do every day.

And so you just, you got to have people that are, they're constantly thinking about somebody lifting a 90 pound tub of chicken and trying to move it.

Well, we can't do that.

It needs to be like £50, right.

And then they can do it by themselves.

So I mean just you start putting systems in place that administrative controls, engineering controls if you can.

And, but to answer your question, we spent money, it was well worth it and I would do it all over again.

We'll continue to spend money to improve safety.

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Well, I want to reach back into the Josh archives for a second.

So you call out your quote MBA experience with a early food processing plant where you were investor.

This is a story I, I want to hear about this.

We actually bought this processing plant.

My wife and I, we had a one year old son at the time.

Of course I was, I was 28 or 29, young and I thought I knew everything that was to know about the food business.

And I just inherited a bit of money from a grandparent that passed away and, and felt like I wanted to put it, put it on me rather than in the, in the market.

And I always had the entrepreneurial edge.

I still do.

I think that's one of the things that drives me towards business.

But so we bought this, we bought this small processing plant in North Carolina, loaded up our family.

I left a six figure salary with Smithfield and director position and we went and did this.

And so the first year, to make a long story short, first year was really, really great.

I mean I was, I picked up additional retail establishments.

I was distributing DSD to grocery stores.

I gained additional spots and Cisco Warehouses and US Foods and we were growing.

Wow.

Yeah.

I didn't know anything about sales, so I was learning all that.

We got a broker that helped us.

I mean, we're doing good.

It felt really Good.

And then the next year, the port market, and this was, this was 2009, 2010, the port market started to go up and I thought, well, you know, how high is it going to go?

It can't go too much higher.

And it kept climbing and kept climbing and I was very resistant and slow at putting in price increases.

In fact, I never did it because I felt like if I did that, if I go raise my prices, the, you know, I'm a lose business, the velocity is going to slow down, they're going to, they're going to leave me.

Whatever it may be.

I felt like it was going to be a detriment to our business ultimately.

That's what just continued to erode our margins and put me in a really bad position.

And then we started to have some regulatory issues which, you know, the food production, particular meat is very regulated by the usda.

Wound up getting in bad position there a couple times.

And I learned a lot there about, you know, I had to reroute all my HACCP plans and SSOPs.

And I mean, it just, it taught me so much about the food business and business in general.

And I was, I was just buried in the business.

Michael Gerber the ems But I don't know if all the listeners know it.

Was that to a T.

I had just buried myself in the business.

I thought that hard work and, and just constant focus and being in it is going to get me to the, to where I need to be.

And it did, did everything by that.

And so, you know, that was one big learning.

And then the other thing I would say is it really elevated my tolerance for failure or problems.

You know, like, it really helped me regulate my emotions when something happens big because it, you know, after being just constantly punched in the gut for like six months till we were able to exit that, it's like, how could anything possibly get worse than this?

And so it really, once I got back into Tyson workforce, which they graciously let me in, and my leadership career really started to take off from there.

And I attribute a lot of that to this business venture and wouldn't change it for anything, but it was a lot of work, really taught me a lot of great lessons about business and, and sales and customers and quality and I mean, you name it, just, just all kinds of stuff.

So lasted about two years and it was, it was a learning experience.

My mba.

Yeah.

What, what an incredible experience.

And so for listeners, if you haven't checked out the E myth that Josh mentioned, Michael Gerber Classic book, if you're thinking about starting your own business or you have your own business.

But my understanding is from reading it, I'm remembering back what most happen, what happens to most people when they start a business is they just create another job for themselves almost accidentally and there's no one left to sort of run the whole business from a strategic level because and I do, I look at that and I think about that business a lot and like who's working on the business when I'm doing the business.

And it sounds like you got caught in that early on which is very normal.

It just happens and then we have to sort of fight to try to get up and we don't always get there sometimes right.

What I could, what I couldn't get, I couldn't understand how I was going to pay myself and pay somebody else to come in and do what I was doing.

But if I was very short minded, shallow minded.

So I should have just been motivated to figure out how to get somebody in there to run the business so I could go grow the business and yeah and ultimately do more bigger things.

So but I, yeah, I've learned my lesson.

I don't, I don't get buried and try not to get buried in day to day things.

And you almost like people can tell you not to and watch out for it but the siren or the temptation is just there.

And I was thinking about your career when you were jumping into that you have the curse of knowledge because your industrial engineer background, you understand so much about the business and then just catching yourself even as CEO, you know the business at so many levels, which is a gift but also you know how to do so many jobs.

It's like you could go spend all day on the floor.

I mean it probably add value.

But who would do your CEO job?

Nobody.

And we would probably wind up going backwards or shrinking as a result.

But just a quick story.

So I had a, again a lot of great leaders in my life but one of we had just done a big project at a plant and you know, almost like a complete shutdown for we turn it upside down, put on all kinds of new equipment and we were struggling to get going and get started.

And me as a, I think I was either a complex manager VP at the time and you know, you just got everybody just pitching in, maintenance manager, everybody's working.

He said projects can be like vacuums and you will get sucked in to all the minutiae and the, you know, just trying to get this thing off the ground.

But you've got to get yourself up and out of that so that you can direct traffic and call some plays and, and redirect people because you're, you're stuck in the fourth.

But the, the key there is the word vacuum.

I think you just, without even knowing it, you get sucked into the.

Yes, yes.

So vacuum.

Just be careful.

The vacuum, whether you're watching.

So what are you doing with your team?

I mean, do you, do you tell them, hey, if you see me getting too deep in something, let me know kind of deal, or how do you put up the guardrails?

Obviously you had that crazy experience, like you live the EMF and you're bringing that now to your role.

But what do you do?

Because I'm thinking about listeners, I'm thinking about myself too.

What do we do to catch ourselves from going too deep and getting sucked in the vacuum?

One of the things that I learned through my journey as well is, is to, to get out of people's way.

And if something needs to get done, you've got to understand how to, how to teach them, make sure they understand what you want, be clear about what the expectation is, and get out of their way.

And fortunately, I've got really good people here at this organization today.

They're almost to the point of, of they, they don't, they won't allow me to get so deep into things because they feel compelled to do it themselves.

I, I mean, I would say I'd rather do it that way, but just some really good leaders that didn't know that I don't need to be doing this, that that's their job or somebody else's job, and they take it.

So I do have that going for me right now.

You know, just a great executive team and management structure here that really allows me to stay elevated and not work down a level or two.

But, you know, I think for me, it's just, I've got no point where I think I can recognize the fact that I'm, I am working down a layer or two, and I try to pass those things off, make sure people understand and then get out of their way.

I had a boss early on that just undermined me like crazy, and he's the, for me, one of the perfect examples of what not to do.

And, you know, the administration of poor leadership.

The last thing I want to do is, is micromanage people and undermine them and do things around them.

And so, you know, the best thing to do is just make sure everybody's clear on what the expectation is and get out of the way if they can't cut it then.

Then have a conversation and a coaching about it.

And you know, sometimes the tough conversations are where people struggle, but I can do that pretty well, I think.

Such a good topic and the leaders listening today.

And if rising leaders take it to heart, one of the things that comes up for me is, I mean, you've worked for the sort of the juggernaut, so the protein industry with tights and Smithville.

And my understanding is you've also been through a layoff and you've experienced that which for a leader can be a blow, a blow to the ego.

It can be hard in transition.

And now you're CEO, and I'm curious, what was the most significant mindset shift that you had to make in that transition?

Going through the layoff, it feels a little like Shawshank Redemptionist, where, you know, like, you're, you're, you're like coming out through the pipe on the other side and like, wow, this was great.

But it's not always like that when you're going through the pipe, sewage pipe, or that experience.

Yeah.

And that was, that was tough for, for me and my family was really a big help in getting through that.

I've been traveling for a year, so it was nice to come home and, and spend a little time and reconnect with them.

And I've got no, you know, got no ill will towards Tyson Foods.

Love them.

That was layoff.

But I think they quickly got into like a consultant consulting role with a really nice artificial intelligence company that does work in protein plants.

That really helped keep my mind occupied and kind of kept me working and centered, so to speak, and busy and.

But I think what was important for me is to, to keep my confidence up and just, just know that I still a lot of things that I could offer to somebody else.

And those companies that you mentioned have taught me so much and about our particular industry.

And, you know, I just, I get a lot of dead ends with interviews and recruiters like crazy.

And, and, and I think it was just fortuitous that it happened when it did.

And John Peter, who was here, Alitrade, was looking to retire soon.

And I mean, it just, it really, it was almost too easy, you know, not to say that it wasn't a hard decision to, to pick me over somebody else or whatever.

But, you know, the board selected me and been blessed to be here.

I think I fit in this team well.

I know this industry.

I know our big customers.

And so it's, it's just really been a blessing for me.

But, yes, it was a blow, and it was just important for me to.

To keep my confidence up and, you know, had good friends that I work out with every day, and they were supportive, my family.

And so it was tough, but, man, just.

And the other thing, you know, that I was thinking about last night before coming on here is so much of your life and your career is defined by your.

In your position, and.

And.

And in an instant, it was gone.

Like, who is.

Who is Josh Whitley now?

Is he.

Is he the VP of Tyson Foods of Operations?

And he's done all these.

So, like, in an instant, I'm nobody.

And really, at that point, what defined me was my family, my friends, my faith, you know, all these things outside of work that I think any leader has got to put importance on and not be so consumed by the role and the work that you're doing every day, because it can happen to anybody.

Your business can fail, which I've done as well, and be laid off and, you know, what other circumstances may be.

You can get sick and not.

Not be at work anymore because of some illness, and.

And you lose that definition.

And so who are you going to be if you don't have that job and that role?

I think that's an important question.

It was for me to answer, and I started thinking, okay, I've got.

I've got to go make some more friends, and I got to make some more contacts and, you know, just improve my life outside of that career.

Wow.

You are not your job or your job title.

You the person.

And I love that recognition.

And if you'd been traveling around for a year, wearing that big brand on your shirt, it's easy to be like, well, that's.

That's who I am.

When I.

When someone.

When someone asks you at a party what you do, and you're like, well, I'm an exact.

I'm an executive for Tyson.

And people like, oh, I know those guys.

And all of a sudden, when you can't say that at the party anymore, and they're like, what do you do?

You're like, well, I'm a consultant.

And they're like, what.

What does that mean?

Right?

And it's like, what.

What do you mean?

So I love that, and I love your reaction in terms of, hey, it.

It surfaced things that you could strengthen, like, your relationships, like, you're working out, right?

It's not like a call to action.

And those things in your network growing that ultimately buoyed you and your confidence, and it might be like the universe at play.

Here.

But the alaTrade President/CEO role wasn't available yet.

They might have to come calling if you hadn't been out there and available.

So it seems like it, it worked out.

It has.

When you, you mentioned that you work out with a group of people, what, what is that like and what, how is that help?

How does that help your performance?

I see.

Yeah, I attribute a lot of my success to it and, and confidence and, and it just, you know, performance, execution.

But this group of guys, so there's four of us in a group and you know, we, we all have different lives and walk out different doors every day, but we try to come together at least three or four days a week and a lot of us will go do things individually, but we come together and we follow routine.

We hold each other accountable and we've got a text string and you know, so just a great group of guys that, I mean, one of them, well, two of them reached out to me right after I got laid off and they knew a woman on the road.

So hey, come join us.

We picked up another guy and it's just really been this fabulous four of working out and, and again, I think the accountability is really the big thing.

You know, we all notice when we're not together and we go to the gym, we're not pushing ourselves as hard as we might if we're together.

And so that, that really helps.

And you know, we get up early.

We're generally at the gym about 4:45 early morning and working out.

So yeah, we, again, we're all on different schedules and we just found that early was what was going to work.

And we get in early on Sunday morning so we get to church and just a great group of guys, so proud to have them beside me and as friends.

So you're touching on something we don't often get into in the show.

But we know from research that especially men as they get older get more isolated.

Right.

Other than maybe their spouse or in their family.

And that does not translate to long term good health.

Right.

We know having stronger social bonds as you get older is important.

So have you always.

It just sounds like from your story you kick that into high gear after you had the layoff experience and now you, it sounds like you've kind of created this community and I'm wondering if you have advice for other leaders.

Looking around and they're like, yeah, I used to have a bunch of friends I used to hang out with about 20 years ago and now I'm an executive and like, I just have the people that report to me as my main social jam versus outside.

So how did you.

How you kickstart that process?

What's your advice?

I see the importance of it, of maintaining a personal brand and staying connected not just to people in my immediate, you know, community, but all the friends I had at Tyson and people I could only then.

I don't know what the, what the key advice would be other than just the, the fact that you can't let your work consume you so much that you put yourself last and your relationships with your family is key and other friends.

But for me, I needed that to help disconnect me from work on some level, too.

And it's good for me now that I'm back in work and those friends help keep me keep my mind, like, thinking about something other than business.

So not sure what the, what the advice would be exactly, but you need, you need friends outside of work.

The other thing about getting close to.

Sorry, the thing for me about getting close to people at work and then being your friend, so to speak, is it's hard to, to be objective with them and hold them accountable.

And I've always been, you know, I've always had good relationship with people that work around me, for me, above me.

But I, I have tried to intentionally keep some distance, too, because if they ever need to hold me accountable, I wanted them.

I didn't want it to feel like it's a friend thing and, and same thing with me.

I want to keep the distance so that we've got a very objective relationship and I don't have to, you know, think about the fact that we're friends outside of work.

And how's that relationship going to be?

I can lose you as a friend.

You know, that's, that's just not the way to, to really run a business.

And that's why it gets hard for CEOs as you rise.

It's more isolating at work, wouldn't you say?

I mean, it's.

There's a reason that expression is lonely at the top.

Came up in the world a long time ago.

Yes, yes, it is.

But, but it's.

I think it's also what you make it.

You know, you got to be able to get out and play golf and have hobbies and do things that free your mind.

So, Josh, we're, we're, we're basically out of time here.

But this has been so cool and so fun, and I just love how you communicate your message authentically.

And you're just like, hey, this is, this is what happened?

This is my perspective.

It's so refreshing.

I want to turn over to you now like a party message or an idea that's burning for you that you want to share with the listeners and we'll wrap up.

Well, you know, the thought that comes to mind is, is I've tried to leadership throughout my career a lot of different ways.

I've, you know, been sessions and classes and, you know, everybody wants to know what is leadership to you and how would you define it?

And you know, I, I think the, the key at the core and at the root leadership is, is, is leading other thousands.

But we can't lose sight of the fact that, that we are put in a place to, to in a position to improve people's lives.

And that is, that is the, I mean, just the root core of leadership.

And it's that simple.

Our job, our responsibility, our commitment is to improve people's lives.

And so again, I think if we keep that at the forefront as leaders, not lose sight of it, we can't go wrong.

And it's that simple.

Improve people's lives.

That's leadership.

Thanks for coming on.

Lead the team, Josh.

Glad to be here.

Thank you, Ben.

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