1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,609 ATR2500x-USB Microphone & Logitech BRIO: This first episode of 2024 is a 2 00:00:02,609 --> 00:00:06,390 validation of all the backup, the basics episodes we've been doing. 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:12,150 Because our most popular episode from 2023 was a basics episode 4 00:00:12,210 --> 00:00:13,739 on what you need to back up. 5 00:00:14,099 --> 00:00:15,809 You can't get much more basic than that. 6 00:00:16,379 --> 00:00:20,700 This episode is a rebroadcast of that, and it's dedicated to what we 7 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:25,979 now call traditional backup sources, servers, VMs, desktops, laptops, 8 00:00:26,010 --> 00:00:27,510 and of course mobile devices. 9 00:00:27,929 --> 00:00:31,739 We talk about which of them need to be backed up and why along with the 10 00:00:31,739 --> 00:00:36,450 logic that I use when deciding whether or not to back up a particular device. 11 00:00:36,989 --> 00:00:40,559 Enjoy the new year, kick back and enjoy this rebroadcast of our 12 00:00:40,559 --> 00:00:42,689 most popular episode of last year. 13 00:00:43,229 --> 00:00:44,700 For those that don't know me. 14 00:00:44,700 --> 00:00:45,270 W. Curtis Preston: I'm W. 15 00:00:45,270 --> 00:00:47,099 Curtis Preston, AKA Mr. 16 00:00:47,099 --> 00:00:47,609 Backup. 17 00:00:48,030 --> 00:00:52,049 And I've been deep in backup for over three decades. 18 00:00:52,319 --> 00:00:56,789 This podcast turns backup admins and to cyber recovery heroes. 19 00:00:57,090 --> 00:00:59,280 This is the backup wrap up. 20 00:01:12,402 --> 00:01:14,022 Welcome to the Backup wrap up. 21 00:01:14,629 --> 00:01:15,439 I'm your host W. 22 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:19,359 Curtis Preston and I have with me a guy whose only relationship 23 00:01:19,359 --> 00:01:22,719 to the Silicon Valley Bank is that he used to get coffee there. 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,429 Uh, Prasanna Malaiyandi how's it going? 25 00:01:26,664 --> 00:01:29,154 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Ah, I'm good, Curtis. 26 00:01:29,154 --> 00:01:29,484 Yeah. 27 00:01:29,484 --> 00:01:33,504 Um, I, when all the news broke about Silicon Valley Bank, I was like, 28 00:01:33,504 --> 00:01:35,664 wait, that name sounds so familiar. 29 00:01:35,664 --> 00:01:36,624 I bet I know where they are. 30 00:01:36,624 --> 00:01:42,694 So, In one of my prior employments, uh, we were just down the street from them and in 31 00:01:42,694 --> 00:01:44,944 their headquarter location in Santa Clara. 32 00:01:44,944 --> 00:01:47,074 It's very interesting because in the center of it, there's 33 00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:48,784 like this coffee shop. 34 00:01:49,329 --> 00:01:52,539 And it's a standalone coffee shop and they're only open during some hours. 35 00:01:52,539 --> 00:01:55,149 So some of us would walk down there, have coffee and come back. 36 00:01:55,539 --> 00:01:57,999 And so when I heard the news about Silicon Valley Bank, I'm like, 37 00:01:57,999 --> 00:01:59,499 wait, that sounds very familiar. 38 00:01:59,499 --> 00:02:01,629 I went and like Google mapped it and looked it up and I was 39 00:02:01,629 --> 00:02:02,739 like, wait, I've been there. 40 00:02:02,739 --> 00:02:05,889 I've seen the people walking around in there having coffee. 41 00:02:05,894 --> 00:02:08,349 I probably had coffee with similar people, right? 42 00:02:08,379 --> 00:02:10,209 Some of the employees are Silicon Valley Bank. 43 00:02:11,259 --> 00:02:12,789 So I was like, wow, that's uh, 44 00:02:13,374 --> 00:02:14,904 W. Curtis Preston: maybe you had coffee with the people that 45 00:02:14,904 --> 00:02:16,704 are now standing in line at svb. 46 00:02:16,756 --> 00:02:17,716 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, possibly. 47 00:02:18,466 --> 00:02:22,786 Now I know because, but I'm guessing though, that a lot of their stuff 48 00:02:22,791 --> 00:02:24,346 was either online or over the phone. 49 00:02:24,346 --> 00:02:26,146 Like how often, and here's a question for you. 50 00:02:26,151 --> 00:02:27,676 How often do you actually go to a physical bank? 51 00:02:27,676 --> 00:02:28,996 When was the last time you went to a bank 52 00:02:29,206 --> 00:02:32,146 W. Curtis Preston: well, I don't, but all I see on the news is are 53 00:02:32,146 --> 00:02:36,676 lines of people at svp, you know, and they're going and it's like, and it's 54 00:02:36,681 --> 00:02:39,016 like founder after founder, right? 55 00:02:39,016 --> 00:02:41,776 It's like the c e o and they're like, yeah, I'm trying to get my money out. 56 00:02:41,896 --> 00:02:42,016 You 57 00:02:42,331 --> 00:02:46,501 Prasanna Malaiyandi: which is a little odd in this day and age of digital, 58 00:02:46,501 --> 00:02:50,101 and even the fact that these are probably like startup founders, right? 59 00:02:50,101 --> 00:02:53,941 In tech and they're like, we're gonna go old fashioned and stand in line. 60 00:02:54,451 --> 00:02:54,661 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 61 00:02:54,661 --> 00:02:57,841 Well, the problem is digital doesn't work, right? 62 00:02:57,841 --> 00:03:00,331 In the current scenario, digital doesn't work. 63 00:03:00,331 --> 00:03:06,721 So you go up and basically your choices are a wire transfer, um, 64 00:03:06,751 --> 00:03:09,781 cashier check, or a giant pile of cash. 65 00:03:10,231 --> 00:03:13,321 Um, I don't, I don't know if the giant pile of cash is actually, 66 00:03:13,321 --> 00:03:14,581 can you, can you imagine that? 67 00:03:15,061 --> 00:03:17,461 Yes, I have a $1 million bill. 68 00:03:18,181 --> 00:03:20,941 I don't think, surely you can't walk out with a giant pile of. 69 00:03:22,096 --> 00:03:24,886 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I bet you Well, it, I don't think you can walk out 70 00:03:24,886 --> 00:03:27,706 that same day because it depends on how much cash they have on hand. 71 00:03:28,216 --> 00:03:31,756 And I don't know if banks actually keep that much cash on hand. 72 00:03:31,756 --> 00:03:34,846 But if you made such a large withdrawal, I'm sure if you called a 73 00:03:34,846 --> 00:03:38,566 day or two ahead, could you imagine walking out with like $10 million? 74 00:03:41,446 --> 00:03:42,796 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, that was kind of a problem. 75 00:03:42,826 --> 00:03:46,306 Uh, or that was the problem in the, in the first place, right? 76 00:03:46,306 --> 00:03:47,076 Is a whole bunch of people. 77 00:03:47,821 --> 00:03:51,751 Asking for their money when, uh, it's funny, I just got, I just got 78 00:03:51,751 --> 00:03:57,001 a notification inside what Inside SVBs collapse that was, that's 79 00:03:57,751 --> 00:03:59,191 the New York Times notification. 80 00:03:59,191 --> 00:04:03,211 I just got, uh, may you live in interesting times, the 81 00:04:03,211 --> 00:04:05,641 old, uh, Chinese, uh, proverb. 82 00:04:06,351 --> 00:04:14,981 So in our continued, uh, backup to basic series, um, we are continuing to work. 83 00:04:15,766 --> 00:04:22,216 Uh, my current favorite book, uh, which is Modern Data Protection, my latest from 84 00:04:22,246 --> 00:04:30,316 O'Reilly, which, um, uh, you know, it, it's my fourth book and, um, we'll see, 85 00:04:30,406 --> 00:04:31,906 we'll see if I got a fifth one in me. 86 00:04:32,536 --> 00:04:35,416 Uh, there, there certainly is a topic floating around that's 87 00:04:35,416 --> 00:04:36,826 been very popular lately. 88 00:04:37,906 --> 00:04:41,416 But, uh, this chapter, what's that? 89 00:04:41,416 --> 00:04:42,646 Yeah, bank collapses. 90 00:04:44,116 --> 00:04:46,531 How not to have it run on the bank. 91 00:04:48,511 --> 00:04:54,361 You know, it's funny, the whole banking system is really built on sort of trust 92 00:04:54,721 --> 00:04:59,281 in that any bank can fail the way SVB did. 93 00:04:59,791 --> 00:05:03,751 If enough people come up and say they all want their money at once, right? 94 00:05:03,931 --> 00:05:07,441 Because every bank invests for the long term and Right. 95 00:05:08,491 --> 00:05:10,141 But, um, but anyway. 96 00:05:11,236 --> 00:05:12,566 I don't wanna talk about svb. 97 00:05:13,246 --> 00:05:18,746 So, um, by the way, we'll throw out our usual disclaimer, uh, Prasanna 98 00:05:18,766 --> 00:05:20,086 and I work for different companies. 99 00:05:20,086 --> 00:05:21,886 He works for Zoom, I work for Druva. 100 00:05:22,276 --> 00:05:29,296 And, uh, this is not a podcast of either company and, um, The, uh, 101 00:05:29,296 --> 00:05:31,216 the opinions that you hear are ours. 102 00:05:31,276 --> 00:05:36,256 So the, and also, please, uh, please rate us, uh, go to your 103 00:05:36,256 --> 00:05:37,576 favorite, uh, pod catcher. 104 00:05:37,576 --> 00:05:40,906 Scroll down to where you can give us stars and, and tell us 105 00:05:40,996 --> 00:05:42,436 how wonderful you think we are. 106 00:05:43,786 --> 00:05:45,826 And, um, um, 107 00:05:46,496 --> 00:05:48,446 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And if you wanna watch us on video, go to 108 00:05:48,446 --> 00:05:51,816 Backup Central because we do post videos of all the episodes. 109 00:05:51,826 --> 00:05:52,176 So 110 00:05:52,306 --> 00:05:53,086 W. Curtis Preston: that's right on 111 00:05:53,156 --> 00:05:54,686 Prasanna Malaiyandi: if you wanna see our lovely faces, 112 00:05:55,096 --> 00:05:57,496 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, you can actually see what we look like. 113 00:05:57,616 --> 00:06:03,436 Um, and, uh, I wonder if the, my, if, if our viewers or listeners will have 114 00:06:03,656 --> 00:06:06,316 the same reaction with you as my family. 115 00:06:06,316 --> 00:06:08,416 Did you remember when they first saw what you look like? 116 00:06:08,416 --> 00:06:11,176 They were like, he doesn't look like, because they'd heard your 117 00:06:11,176 --> 00:06:13,936 voice so much and then, uh, yeah. 118 00:06:13,936 --> 00:06:17,776 And then they saw you and they're like, oh, he didn't, he, he didn't match up to 119 00:06:17,781 --> 00:06:19,176 what I thought he was gonna look like. 120 00:06:20,581 --> 00:06:21,481 Prasanna Malaiyandi: boo. 121 00:06:22,246 --> 00:06:25,246 W. Curtis Preston: I don't know, may, may, maybe they weren't expecting that beard. 122 00:06:25,441 --> 00:06:26,671 Prasanna Malaiyandi: High expectations. 123 00:06:26,701 --> 00:06:26,821 Yeah. 124 00:06:27,106 --> 00:06:28,276 W. Curtis Preston: high expectations. 125 00:06:28,396 --> 00:06:33,241 Uh, but anyway, so this week we're gonna talk about, um, you know, the 126 00:06:33,376 --> 00:06:39,016 book tries to cover all of, basically all the things you need to back up. 127 00:06:39,421 --> 00:06:45,091 All the ways that you can back up all the why's you need to back up and, uh, 128 00:06:45,091 --> 00:06:48,301 and all the wheres, right, so where, where you might want to back up. 129 00:06:48,301 --> 00:06:49,021 And the hows. 130 00:06:49,561 --> 00:06:53,551 Uh, and in the beginning here we're talking about the what's and uh, right 131 00:06:53,551 --> 00:06:59,791 now the chapter is about traditional data sources, some of which we still argue over 132 00:06:59,791 --> 00:07:01,291 whether or not they need to be backed up. 133 00:07:02,881 --> 00:07:04,321 And I will, of 134 00:07:04,516 --> 00:07:05,296 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Mainframes. 135 00:07:05,911 --> 00:07:11,641 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I will of course say that I stand firmly on 136 00:07:11,641 --> 00:07:16,111 the ground of back up all the things, so you're not gonna hear it from me. 137 00:07:16,621 --> 00:07:20,251 Uh, there, there will be, there are some, some exceptions that 138 00:07:20,251 --> 00:07:23,041 I discuss in this chapter. 139 00:07:23,161 --> 00:07:24,391 Uh, and we'll talk about 'em. 140 00:07:24,691 --> 00:07:29,611 But the first section, uh, is about physical servers. 141 00:07:29,731 --> 00:07:30,571 Um, 142 00:07:31,321 --> 00:07:31,711 Prasanna Malaiyandi: What are those? 143 00:07:31,711 --> 00:07:34,651 Do you think people actually know what physical servers are these days? 144 00:07:35,701 --> 00:07:38,521 W. Curtis Preston: Well there, you know, I, you know, I, I was just on a call 145 00:07:38,521 --> 00:07:45,811 yesterday with a Druva customer, or potential, a Druva, a prospect, and they 146 00:07:45,811 --> 00:07:49,951 were discussing, uh, they had a number of physical servers in their data center, 147 00:07:49,951 --> 00:07:51,691 even though they were mostly virtualized. 148 00:07:51,721 --> 00:07:55,231 So, you know, do you, do you see it, I mean, do you. 149 00:07:55,531 --> 00:07:58,471 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, I'm just wondering as everyone's talking 150 00:07:58,471 --> 00:08:04,411 about cloud and compute list, right, functions running, do people even 151 00:08:04,411 --> 00:08:08,281 know like where, like what a physical server even is anymore, right? 152 00:08:08,281 --> 00:08:13,381 Or is it sort of, and this is probably more like the people currently entering 153 00:08:13,381 --> 00:08:17,791 the workforce more than sort of people who've been in the industry for a while. 154 00:08:18,881 --> 00:08:21,061 Because I'm sure most people haven't physically touched 155 00:08:21,561 --> 00:08:23,881 hardware, you know, in a long time. 156 00:08:24,286 --> 00:08:24,646 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 157 00:08:24,646 --> 00:08:28,636 Well, it just depends on what, what generation, and by generation I 158 00:08:28,636 --> 00:08:32,716 don't mean people, I mean, Like the generation of, of the company, right? 159 00:08:33,076 --> 00:08:39,136 There are definitely companies like Druva where our entire, you know, 160 00:08:39,141 --> 00:08:41,356 we, we have a lot of compute, right? 161 00:08:41,356 --> 00:08:43,906 And we have a lot of things that we do as a company, right? 162 00:08:44,476 --> 00:08:48,706 Um, you know, with thousands of customers and, and you 163 00:08:48,706 --> 00:08:50,326 know, thousand plus employees. 164 00:08:51,016 --> 00:08:53,656 Uh, obviously we have a need of a lot of stuff, but. 165 00:08:54,706 --> 00:08:55,846 I, I don't know. 166 00:08:55,846 --> 00:09:00,586 I, I think we have a computer, like a server, and I don't know what it does. 167 00:09:00,586 --> 00:09:03,946 I, because I actually saw a server room at some point, but it was just 168 00:09:03,946 --> 00:09:06,826 really small and I don't, actually, don't, I think you know what it is. 169 00:09:06,886 --> 00:09:10,966 I think it's, um, the only thing we have is actually it's lab equipment. 170 00:09:10,996 --> 00:09:15,166 It's, it's stuff, it's stuff pretending to be servers so that we can. 171 00:09:16,156 --> 00:09:19,576 You know, back that stuff up, you know, and demo and stuff like that. 172 00:09:19,906 --> 00:09:24,436 But all our, our whole infrastructure is up in the cloud somewhere. 173 00:09:24,436 --> 00:09:26,746 And I think there's a lot of companies that are like that. 174 00:09:27,736 --> 00:09:30,706 But for those of us that have worked at companies and continue to work 175 00:09:30,711 --> 00:09:36,826 at companies where there's just some servers that, for one reason or another 176 00:09:36,886 --> 00:09:42,556 they don't virtualize them, maybe they're not, um, maybe they're not. 177 00:09:43,231 --> 00:09:45,901 Virtu liable, if I can make up a word. 178 00:09:46,981 --> 00:09:47,331 Um, 179 00:09:47,386 --> 00:09:50,746 Prasanna Malaiyandi: either, probably due to either hardware specs or even just 180 00:09:50,746 --> 00:09:55,126 the fact that moving this to the cloud doesn't make sense for this application 181 00:09:55,126 --> 00:09:59,386 because there are too many other dependencies or it's just risk, right? 182 00:09:59,386 --> 00:10:01,936 Every time you're migrating or moving a workload, right? 183 00:10:01,936 --> 00:10:05,056 There is risk involved in Sometimes it's like, Nope, we can't touch 184 00:10:05,056 --> 00:10:06,106 that, or we don't want to touch. 185 00:10:07,291 --> 00:10:10,651 W. Curtis Preston: And speaking of risc, uh, I'll spell it with a c. 186 00:10:11,191 --> 00:10:15,901 Uh, if you're using the risc architecture with a c, uh, you know, 187 00:10:15,931 --> 00:10:17,941 that's the salt, the sun architecture. 188 00:10:17,941 --> 00:10:19,291 I still, I still call it sun. 189 00:10:19,741 --> 00:10:23,071 Um, it would be Oracle now, but you know, if you're using 190 00:10:23,071 --> 00:10:25,041 any of the older unixes, right? 191 00:10:25,351 --> 00:10:29,611 Uh, the IBM still is still, theirs is still going strong. 192 00:10:29,641 --> 00:10:30,961 The, the. 193 00:10:32,071 --> 00:10:32,821 A I X. 194 00:10:32,821 --> 00:10:33,151 Right. 195 00:10:33,151 --> 00:10:35,371 That's still actively developed and released. 196 00:10:36,231 --> 00:10:37,321 HP's kind of dead. 197 00:10:37,321 --> 00:10:39,181 Is Solaris still developed? 198 00:10:40,021 --> 00:10:41,191 I think it is. 199 00:10:41,656 --> 00:10:42,166 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think it 200 00:10:42,241 --> 00:10:42,901 W. Curtis Preston: I think it 201 00:10:42,916 --> 00:10:46,606 Prasanna Malaiyandi: well, I, well, and I just go back to the, so my 202 00:10:46,606 --> 00:10:51,286 dad, way back when he used to work at Tandem Computers, I don't know 203 00:10:51,286 --> 00:10:54,946 if you remember that name, but they used to build like nonstop kernels. 204 00:10:54,946 --> 00:10:59,426 And so these super high availability systems used in government agencies, 205 00:10:59,426 --> 00:11:02,296 and those are still kicking around because no one wants to touch them. 206 00:11:02,296 --> 00:11:03,676 No one wants to upgrade them. 207 00:11:04,216 --> 00:11:04,846 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 208 00:11:04,851 --> 00:11:05,176 Yeah. 209 00:11:05,176 --> 00:11:08,866 So there's a variety of these, some of which are still in production. 210 00:11:08,866 --> 00:11:12,346 Meaning, meaning production, meaning they're still being made. 211 00:11:12,616 --> 00:11:17,536 Most of them are defunct, uh, but they're still running right. 212 00:11:17,566 --> 00:11:18,856 Uh, with an uptime of. 213 00:11:19,671 --> 00:11:23,371 1700 days or whatever the way Linux used to be. 214 00:11:23,851 --> 00:11:26,701 Uh, there, there's sort of two, there's three different types 215 00:11:26,701 --> 00:11:27,961 of backups I talk about here. 216 00:11:28,141 --> 00:11:31,801 The standard backup, just a file system backup, uh, and then 217 00:11:31,801 --> 00:11:33,091 there's a bare metal backup. 218 00:11:33,091 --> 00:11:36,211 Now you said, you said something on the pre-call, you said 219 00:11:36,216 --> 00:11:37,471 you haven't really seen that 220 00:11:39,421 --> 00:11:40,261 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Not that I've seen that. 221 00:11:40,261 --> 00:11:44,311 I think most folks, at least a newer generation, they don't like. 222 00:11:44,311 --> 00:11:45,571 I've always thought, okay, when. 223 00:11:46,446 --> 00:11:47,971 So speaking personally, right? 224 00:11:47,971 --> 00:11:52,261 So when I had my PC in college, right, what I would do is, okay, I back up my 225 00:11:52,261 --> 00:11:55,981 data and then when it came to sort of the OS and everything else, I literally 226 00:11:55,981 --> 00:11:58,531 would like start from scratch, right? 227 00:11:58,831 --> 00:12:02,911 Every single time, just sort of okay, because for me, right? 228 00:12:02,941 --> 00:12:06,061 I didn't trust like all the programs that were there or 229 00:12:06,151 --> 00:12:07,171 things that might have changed. 230 00:12:07,171 --> 00:12:10,381 So I'm like, I'll just start from a clean slate and I had it down to a science. 231 00:12:10,381 --> 00:12:14,071 Like I would literally reinstall my entire system like once every three months. 232 00:12:15,376 --> 00:12:15,796 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 233 00:12:15,796 --> 00:12:17,596 Was that a, was that a window system? 234 00:12:18,391 --> 00:12:18,751 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 235 00:12:19,486 --> 00:12:21,946 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, that's, I, I didn't do it every three months, but 236 00:12:21,946 --> 00:12:23,896 when I had Windows, I, I did that a lot. 237 00:12:23,896 --> 00:12:25,696 I did the whole sort of refresh thing. 238 00:12:26,296 --> 00:12:30,496 But when, when you're looking at a more complicated architecture, uh, there 239 00:12:30,501 --> 00:12:36,436 are a lot of reasons to, uh, basically back up the operating system itself. 240 00:12:36,496 --> 00:12:36,856 Right? 241 00:12:36,856 --> 00:12:39,466 And when you're doing that, you're not just backing up. 242 00:12:40,326 --> 00:12:43,471 All the files in the operating system, you're potentially backing up. 243 00:12:43,471 --> 00:12:47,791 Basically the, the blocks that make up the, you know, the boot block 244 00:12:47,791 --> 00:12:49,021 and all of that kind of stuff. 245 00:12:49,621 --> 00:12:53,041 Um, the, there, there's a couple of different ways to do that. 246 00:12:53,041 --> 00:13:00,361 And the idea is that if the hardware itself died, right, um, or you bought 247 00:13:00,366 --> 00:13:05,431 new hardware, if you, if you just bought new hardware, as long as the, the OS was. 248 00:13:06,096 --> 00:13:09,481 Uh, you know, plug and play from a, from a new hardware perspective. 249 00:13:09,481 --> 00:13:09,811 Yeah. 250 00:13:10,141 --> 00:13:15,841 You could just literally restore the old s the old os to the new hardware. 251 00:13:16,171 --> 00:13:18,421 And it would just, it would just run right. 252 00:13:18,901 --> 00:13:21,631 And honestly, it, it worked pretty well. 253 00:13:21,661 --> 00:13:25,051 Um, you know, and there are, there continued to be backup 254 00:13:25,691 --> 00:13:27,601 software products that still. 255 00:13:28,576 --> 00:13:29,446 In that way. 256 00:13:29,506 --> 00:13:29,986 Right. 257 00:13:30,046 --> 00:13:34,996 Um, the, the thing is that it's gone by the wayside because of virtualization. 258 00:13:35,911 --> 00:13:39,751 Prasanna Malaiyandi: The one question I wanted to ask though is I don't think 259 00:13:39,751 --> 00:13:43,461 people understand, just going back to one comment, you made the complexities right. 260 00:13:44,171 --> 00:13:47,656 Can you sort of walk through, and I know sometimes we talk about like bare metal 261 00:13:47,656 --> 00:13:51,016 backups and then I know we'll eventually talk about restores, but it's really 262 00:13:51,016 --> 00:13:52,696 the restore I'm interested in, right? 263 00:13:52,996 --> 00:13:54,466 Without bare metal backups. 264 00:13:54,466 --> 00:14:00,256 Like how complex does restore get and like what are the benefits of doing a bare 265 00:14:00,261 --> 00:14:03,106 metal backup from a restore or recovery 266 00:14:03,736 --> 00:14:04,036 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 267 00:14:04,036 --> 00:14:08,656 Well, again, outside of the virtualization world, you basically have two choices. 268 00:14:08,716 --> 00:14:09,766 Well, you have three choices. 269 00:14:09,766 --> 00:14:12,646 You have the one that you described, which really doesn't 270 00:14:12,646 --> 00:14:13,816 work in the data center, right? 271 00:14:13,816 --> 00:14:18,976 You, you, you have to, you have to like reload the os, reload all the 272 00:14:18,976 --> 00:14:23,056 applications, and then do all the configuration that you may have done to. 273 00:14:23,291 --> 00:14:25,031 D o s and all the applications. 274 00:14:25,601 --> 00:14:30,071 Um, you could potentially restore a bunch of files if you were really good at it and 275 00:14:30,071 --> 00:14:33,791 knew exactly what you needed to restore to put all that configuration back in place. 276 00:14:34,391 --> 00:14:40,901 Um, the second, and probably more common was the idea of maintaining an image. 277 00:14:41,371 --> 00:14:44,671 Right, you're gonna maintain a Solaris image and an a I X image 278 00:14:44,671 --> 00:14:46,321 and a, you know, a Linux image. 279 00:14:46,771 --> 00:14:50,761 And then you just, you lay down that image and that image isn't just the 280 00:14:51,091 --> 00:14:54,901 os, it's the OS configured the way you want it configured in your environment. 281 00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:59,441 So you would lay down that image and then you do a handful of 282 00:14:59,501 --> 00:15:02,161 customizations, like host name. 283 00:15:03,121 --> 00:15:04,201 That kind of stuff. 284 00:15:04,681 --> 00:15:06,361 Uh, and then it'd be off and running. 285 00:15:06,361 --> 00:15:10,051 And then the third would be you literally back up all of the bites and 286 00:15:10,051 --> 00:15:13,861 blocks, uh, that, you know, comprise 287 00:15:13,941 --> 00:15:14,981 Prasanna Malaiyandi: a specific machine. 288 00:15:15,511 --> 00:15:17,191 W. Curtis Preston: for each specific machine. 289 00:15:17,551 --> 00:15:21,061 And then what you need is you need to boot a mini root. 290 00:15:21,481 --> 00:15:25,591 Uh, basically you, you know, you need to, cuz you need to restore to a 291 00:15:25,591 --> 00:15:27,241 drive that you're not currently using. 292 00:15:27,241 --> 00:15:28,571 So you boot a mini root. 293 00:15:29,141 --> 00:15:35,506 Um, basically, you know, sometimes different oss work differently, 294 00:15:35,506 --> 00:15:38,116 but like with Windows you could restore really basic. 295 00:15:38,821 --> 00:15:41,881 Uh, mini root, and then you'd boot into that, and then you'd 296 00:15:41,881 --> 00:15:43,441 do the restore of the drive. 297 00:15:43,981 --> 00:15:45,961 Uh, it gets really complicated. 298 00:15:46,411 --> 00:15:52,591 Um, but, but the idea is that, um, and, and it's one of the reasons why I 299 00:15:52,596 --> 00:15:56,611 think that it, it went by the wayside and the fact that virtualization came 300 00:15:56,616 --> 00:15:59,671 out, but, um, it's really complicated. 301 00:15:59,911 --> 00:16:02,251 Um, but, um, 302 00:16:02,376 --> 00:16:03,571 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I don't think I wanna do that ever. 303 00:16:04,426 --> 00:16:04,936 W. Curtis Preston: No. 304 00:16:04,996 --> 00:16:09,796 Yeah, well, um, but you know what, uh, time machine is a bare metal backup, 305 00:16:10,621 --> 00:16:10,951 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 306 00:16:11,536 --> 00:16:11,956 W. Curtis Preston: right? 307 00:16:12,046 --> 00:16:13,966 Because it puts back everything. 308 00:16:14,056 --> 00:16:16,816 Um, you know, it puts back the whole thing. 309 00:16:17,056 --> 00:16:17,956 Yeah, exactly. 310 00:16:18,466 --> 00:16:21,436 Uh, the other thing I had under physical service B was backing up, 311 00:16:21,436 --> 00:16:26,716 NAS, there was a time, uh, shoutout to Steven Manley Druva's CTO. 312 00:16:27,016 --> 00:16:31,306 There was a time when I was a big fan of N D P, the network. 313 00:16:33,216 --> 00:16:37,801 data management protocol, which was the only way, cuz I didn't like 314 00:16:37,801 --> 00:16:43,381 backing up NAS servers via NFS and S and B, because you're competing for 315 00:16:43,386 --> 00:16:47,431 the U, you're competing with the users for the resources of the machine. 316 00:16:47,971 --> 00:16:51,451 And then within DMP it could deprioritize the backup. 317 00:16:52,231 --> 00:16:55,251 Uh, you know, under the priority of the users. 318 00:16:55,701 --> 00:17:00,921 But, you know, without going into it too much, there, there were, there are a lot 319 00:17:00,921 --> 00:17:06,951 of problems with N DM p, the, the chief of them being that it's platform dependent, 320 00:17:07,491 --> 00:17:11,031 meaning that if you back up a NetApp, that backup only works on a NetApp. 321 00:17:11,601 --> 00:17:12,261 Um, 322 00:17:12,511 --> 00:17:16,051 Prasanna Malaiyandi: For some vendors, I would say for some backup 323 00:17:16,051 --> 00:17:19,141 vendors, not all have that limitation. 324 00:17:20,611 --> 00:17:23,161 W. Curtis Preston: I think I'm gonna have to argue with you because the 325 00:17:23,166 --> 00:17:25,051 format comes from the platform. 326 00:17:26,311 --> 00:17:31,441 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So if, if I recall, yes, it does come from the 327 00:17:31,441 --> 00:17:35,941 platform, but there are some products which can reverse engineer and actually 328 00:17:35,941 --> 00:17:37,501 write out to a different target. 329 00:17:38,026 --> 00:17:38,476 W. Curtis Preston: Okay. 330 00:17:38,656 --> 00:17:39,046 All right. 331 00:17:39,046 --> 00:17:43,246 So there are some backup products that that basically extrapolate some 332 00:17:43,351 --> 00:17:43,991 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Very few. 333 00:17:44,041 --> 00:17:47,491 But it can't export out and restore everything back perfectly 334 00:17:47,491 --> 00:17:50,461 because like you said, if one vendor supports some attributes, 335 00:17:50,731 --> 00:17:52,291 cuz each vendor is unique, right? 336 00:17:52,381 --> 00:17:54,991 Another vendor, you may not be able to get that same access. 337 00:17:54,991 --> 00:17:57,631 So it will try, it'll at least get you back your data, but it's 338 00:17:57,631 --> 00:18:00,241 not guaranteed all the metadata associated with it matches or 339 00:18:00,241 --> 00:18:01,681 apples and other things like that. 340 00:18:01,786 --> 00:18:05,116 W. Curtis Preston: So what most people do is they, they mount the 341 00:18:05,146 --> 00:18:08,776 NAS device, uh, to some kind of proxy and they back it up that way. 342 00:18:09,436 --> 00:18:11,806 Um, so, and. 343 00:18:12,181 --> 00:18:15,511 You know, and honestly, especially if you've gone to an incremental 344 00:18:15,511 --> 00:18:18,721 forever approach, uh, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 345 00:18:19,051 --> 00:18:21,601 Back in the day when we were doing a, a mixture of full and 346 00:18:21,606 --> 00:18:24,991 incrementals, maybe you're having a bigger impact on the filer. 347 00:18:25,291 --> 00:18:27,931 Um, but, um, all right. 348 00:18:27,931 --> 00:18:30,001 The next we have is virtual servers. 349 00:18:30,181 --> 00:18:32,791 Uh, so the world of virtualization, the likes of. 350 00:18:33,961 --> 00:18:38,791 Hyper V, uh, a H v, kvm, all of these things. 351 00:18:39,361 --> 00:18:43,171 And, uh, I'm gonna wax, uh, historical here. 352 00:18:43,621 --> 00:18:47,461 Back in the day, the only thing we could do was VM level backup. 353 00:18:47,461 --> 00:18:51,811 Basically, you put an agent in the vm, you backed up the vm just like it was a 354 00:18:51,841 --> 00:18:56,101 virtual machine, and it was a horrible, if any of you're still out there doing 355 00:18:56,226 --> 00:18:57,946 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Sorry, can you restate that? 356 00:18:58,171 --> 00:18:58,681 W. Curtis Preston: what 357 00:18:59,476 --> 00:19:02,866 Prasanna Malaiyandi: You said you put an agent in the VM and you back up 358 00:19:03,671 --> 00:19:05,761 W. Curtis Preston: VM as if it were a physical machine. 359 00:19:06,091 --> 00:19:06,631 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, sorry. 360 00:19:06,631 --> 00:19:07,561 I thought you said virtual machine. 361 00:19:07,651 --> 00:19:07,891 Sorry. 362 00:19:07,981 --> 00:19:08,461 My bad. 363 00:19:08,461 --> 00:19:08,851 W. Curtis Preston: No. 364 00:19:09,031 --> 00:19:09,511 As if it 365 00:19:09,571 --> 00:19:09,631 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, 366 00:19:09,691 --> 00:19:10,651 W. Curtis Preston: a physical machine. 367 00:19:10,981 --> 00:19:13,231 Well, maybe at least that's what I thought I said anyway, 368 00:19:13,531 --> 00:19:13,891 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah, 369 00:19:14,521 --> 00:19:19,771 W. Curtis Preston: so, um, and, and if you're still doing fulls 370 00:19:19,771 --> 00:19:22,771 and incrementals in VMs, stop. 371 00:19:22,776 --> 00:19:23,211 Right. 372 00:19:23,281 --> 00:19:26,131 It's just, I don't know why anyone would st It was horrible 373 00:19:26,136 --> 00:19:27,991 from a architecture standpoint. 374 00:19:27,991 --> 00:19:30,271 It beat the crap out of the virtualization box. 375 00:19:31,461 --> 00:19:31,951 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 376 00:19:32,446 --> 00:19:35,986 W. Curtis Preston: did you, did you deal with that anywhere where you worked? 377 00:19:36,946 --> 00:19:37,246 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 378 00:19:37,306 --> 00:19:37,996 I did. 379 00:19:37,996 --> 00:19:41,836 So one of my former employers, uh, was very big on VMware 380 00:19:42,446 --> 00:19:43,056 W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm. 381 00:19:43,486 --> 00:19:45,166 Prasanna Malaiyandi: so, um, yeah. 382 00:19:46,831 --> 00:19:50,611 Luckily, they were smart enough to not do that, right? 383 00:19:50,611 --> 00:19:54,931 To do sort of throw an agent into a VM and back it up like a physical server. 384 00:19:55,081 --> 00:19:59,671 And so at least when I joined, I wasn't there as part of the initial wave towards 385 00:19:59,676 --> 00:20:00,931 figuring out how to back up VMware. 386 00:20:00,931 --> 00:20:03,541 By the time I was there, they were already doing smarter things, which you'll talk 387 00:20:03,541 --> 00:20:07,501 about in a second for backing up VMs because yeah, whenever I thought about 388 00:20:07,501 --> 00:20:10,051 it, I'm like, why would you ever back it up like a normal physical server? 389 00:20:10,051 --> 00:20:10,681 That makes no 390 00:20:10,906 --> 00:20:15,256 W. Curtis Preston: because back then we had, we, well, we had no choice, right? 391 00:20:15,406 --> 00:20:20,566 Um, virtualization broke back up overnight, uh, and we 392 00:20:20,686 --> 00:20:22,636 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you like to talk about that's like, yeah. 393 00:20:23,116 --> 00:20:23,566 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 394 00:20:23,986 --> 00:20:27,646 Uh, the, you know, we had to do things like spread the fulls out across the 395 00:20:27,646 --> 00:20:31,456 month, spread the, in the cumulative incrementals out across the week, and 396 00:20:31,456 --> 00:20:34,036 then do a nightly incremental, um, 397 00:20:34,936 --> 00:20:36,316 Prasanna Malaiyandi: because just going back to the, what you were 398 00:20:36,316 --> 00:20:39,196 talking about of sort of like the NAS and the N D M P case, right? 399 00:20:39,436 --> 00:20:43,486 With VMware it's a lot worse because if you're backing up one vm, you 400 00:20:43,486 --> 00:20:46,336 could potentially impact all of the other virtual machines running 401 00:20:46,336 --> 00:20:48,166 on that same ESX host, right? 402 00:20:48,556 --> 00:20:48,976 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 403 00:20:49,006 --> 00:20:53,086 If you, if you don't spread the load out, because the full backup is quite, is 404 00:20:53,086 --> 00:20:55,756 quite a, a, a knock on a, on a vm, right? 405 00:20:56,236 --> 00:20:59,866 So if you're, if you're doing a bunch of full backups at the same time on 406 00:20:59,866 --> 00:21:03,706 the same physical server, you're, you know, it's not gonna be good. 407 00:21:03,916 --> 00:21:04,276 Right? 408 00:21:04,606 --> 00:21:04,816 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 409 00:21:05,446 --> 00:21:06,646 W. Curtis Preston: It's gonna be a little traffic jam. 410 00:21:07,546 --> 00:21:16,186 Um, and then, um, we started getting this, like, this idea of specialized 411 00:21:16,186 --> 00:21:17,776 backups for hypervisors, right? 412 00:21:17,781 --> 00:21:22,306 So that you could back up at the hypervisor level, right at the VMware 413 00:21:22,311 --> 00:21:28,696 level, at the, you know, hyper V level and you could back up the, the VMs as files. 414 00:21:29,266 --> 00:21:32,446 Um, there is one crucial. 415 00:21:34,216 --> 00:21:39,916 Piece of technology that is required for that to work with Windows. 416 00:21:39,946 --> 00:21:42,436 Do you know what that techno piece of technology would be? 417 00:21:44,106 --> 00:21:44,786 Prasanna Malaiyandi: VSS. 418 00:21:45,076 --> 00:21:45,856 W. Curtis Preston: Yes. 419 00:21:45,946 --> 00:21:46,906 Vss. 420 00:21:47,446 --> 00:21:50,086 So that is Windows Volume Shadow Services. 421 00:21:50,086 --> 00:21:50,896 You want to talk about that? 422 00:21:52,471 --> 00:21:55,151 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, so think of it like Microsoft's 423 00:21:55,831 --> 00:21:57,901 snapshotting technology, right? 424 00:21:57,931 --> 00:21:59,161 Which it pretty much is. 425 00:21:59,161 --> 00:22:02,671 It's just not the normal way that you would think about 426 00:22:02,676 --> 00:22:05,191 designing snapshots, right? 427 00:22:05,221 --> 00:22:12,106 Um, in how once you take a snapshot, Data sort of gets split differently and 428 00:22:12,436 --> 00:22:14,716 merging 'em back together is a little odd. 429 00:22:14,896 --> 00:22:18,036 It's not like what you would think when you think about like hardware snapshots. 430 00:22:18,036 --> 00:22:22,556 And so there are a lot of implications with using vss snapshots. 431 00:22:22,556 --> 00:22:27,826 I would say the one that I commonly ran across was when they designed the VSS 432 00:22:28,066 --> 00:22:32,026 protocol, you basically had to complete a snapshot within a certain amount of. 433 00:22:33,046 --> 00:22:33,606 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 434 00:22:33,781 --> 00:22:36,571 Prasanna Malaiyandi: depending on the system, right, because depending 435 00:22:36,571 --> 00:22:39,781 on also like how many layers, if it was a software snapshot or a 436 00:22:40,151 --> 00:22:41,131 hardware based snapshot, right? 437 00:22:41,341 --> 00:22:45,191 It could take more than that amount of time, which means that your snapshots 438 00:22:45,196 --> 00:22:47,731 start failing and as backup, right? 439 00:22:47,761 --> 00:22:50,611 You want to take a snapshot first, so you have a stable point in 440 00:22:50,611 --> 00:22:51,991 time before you do your backup. 441 00:22:52,681 --> 00:22:57,151 You now started to get backup failures, which were painful. 442 00:22:57,796 --> 00:22:58,756 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 443 00:22:58,756 --> 00:23:02,446 Yeah, they were, uh, but basically what, what it allowed us to do in 444 00:23:02,451 --> 00:23:07,336 the, in the, the thing about vss is that it could be, it, it had APIs 445 00:23:07,666 --> 00:23:09,466 so that you could call those APIs. 446 00:23:09,466 --> 00:23:14,326 And so VMware and Hyper B and these other virtualization products, they 447 00:23:14,326 --> 00:23:18,946 could call that API and say, Hey, make a snapshot, and then we're 448 00:23:18,946 --> 00:23:20,836 gonna back up that snapshot, right? 449 00:23:20,836 --> 00:23:24,516 So you can back up the, the VM externally. 450 00:23:25,036 --> 00:23:31,906 And, um, uh, while still getting a stable, consistent image, uh, 451 00:23:31,906 --> 00:23:33,496 that was the whole point of v s s. 452 00:23:33,766 --> 00:23:35,386 Is coffee gonna be okay? 453 00:23:35,566 --> 00:23:36,556 I'm very concerned for 454 00:23:36,691 --> 00:23:36,901 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Sorry. 455 00:23:37,921 --> 00:23:38,671 Okay, come here. 456 00:23:38,761 --> 00:23:39,001 Okay. 457 00:23:39,001 --> 00:23:40,251 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 458 00:23:40,256 --> 00:23:40,891 Okay, come. 459 00:23:41,131 --> 00:23:41,401 Come 460 00:23:44,336 --> 00:23:45,346 W. Curtis Preston: There you go. 461 00:23:46,021 --> 00:23:46,231 Prasanna Malaiyandi: now. 462 00:23:46,231 --> 00:23:46,391 He's fine. 463 00:23:46,606 --> 00:23:48,376 W. Curtis Preston: I, I could hear him down there. 464 00:23:48,376 --> 00:23:50,626 I was like, poor, please get poor coffee. 465 00:23:51,256 --> 00:23:53,746 Um, he sounded so sad. 466 00:23:54,316 --> 00:23:58,276 Uh, but yeah, that, so that's basically, you know, if you're 467 00:23:58,281 --> 00:24:03,406 backing up virtualization, you know, or or virtualized servers, 468 00:24:03,466 --> 00:24:05,986 you need to back them up in the way. 469 00:24:06,796 --> 00:24:09,046 That platform likes. 470 00:24:09,076 --> 00:24:09,586 Right? 471 00:24:09,586 --> 00:24:10,306 Exactly. 472 00:24:10,306 --> 00:24:10,696 Right. 473 00:24:11,206 --> 00:24:14,416 Um, and you need, you still, I think you need to be doing incremental, 474 00:24:14,416 --> 00:24:18,526 forever approaches, deduplication approaches so that you minimize the 475 00:24:18,531 --> 00:24:23,146 impact on the physical server that's hosting all that, uh, all those VMs. 476 00:24:24,556 --> 00:24:25,816 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I have a question for 477 00:24:25,846 --> 00:24:26,566 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, sure. 478 00:24:28,246 --> 00:24:34,366 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Was V s s the first time you've heard of a vendor 479 00:24:34,371 --> 00:24:36,826 enabling backups to be better? 480 00:24:37,486 --> 00:24:42,766 I know we talked about N D M P, but from like a operating system 481 00:24:42,766 --> 00:24:44,086 software side of the house. 482 00:24:44,491 --> 00:24:45,571 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, certainly. 483 00:24:45,721 --> 00:24:50,601 Um, well, no, cuz I've been around a while. 484 00:24:50,861 --> 00:24:51,281 The, 485 00:24:51,436 --> 00:24:52,686 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, that's why I was asking. 486 00:24:53,671 --> 00:24:56,881 W. Curtis Preston: the oddly the, the one that actually jumps out at me. 487 00:24:57,871 --> 00:25:00,271 Was, makes this B from a i X. 488 00:25:00,271 --> 00:25:04,381 What makes this B was we'd go back to bare metal backup makes 489 00:25:04,531 --> 00:25:07,261 B was time machine for ax, right? 490 00:25:07,411 --> 00:25:14,071 So it was a, a complete backup of the operating system and everything on it. 491 00:25:14,701 --> 00:25:18,901 To a tape, which if you had the tape driving the tape and you had 492 00:25:18,901 --> 00:25:21,751 a completely brand new server you could restore, that makes the speed 493 00:25:22,271 --> 00:25:23,851 directly to the OS and restore it. 494 00:25:24,451 --> 00:25:26,491 Yeah, I, I can think of that. 495 00:25:26,491 --> 00:25:27,661 I can think of that. 496 00:25:27,841 --> 00:25:34,771 Um, but this was the one, this was one that was, This was useful for 497 00:25:34,771 --> 00:25:36,661 a lot of other purposes, right. 498 00:25:36,661 --> 00:25:37,771 For orchestration. 499 00:25:38,161 --> 00:25:41,311 Uh, and it also works with applications because not only does 500 00:25:41,311 --> 00:25:44,851 it take a snapshot of the operating system, it takes a snapshot of any 501 00:25:44,881 --> 00:25:48,091 VSS compliant, uh, applications. 502 00:25:48,091 --> 00:25:48,421 Right. 503 00:25:48,421 --> 00:25:52,711 See, obviously all of the Microsoft apps, but Oracle as VSS compliant 504 00:25:52,711 --> 00:25:56,911 as well, uh, and other, uh, databases that might run on Windows. 505 00:25:56,986 --> 00:25:59,326 Prasanna Malaiyandi: which is what you want because you want those 506 00:25:59,326 --> 00:26:01,246 applications to be consistent when you 507 00:26:01,426 --> 00:26:02,116 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 508 00:26:02,356 --> 00:26:03,916 Exactly, exactly. 509 00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:06,406 Otherwise, you're backing up a file that's changing as you're 510 00:26:06,411 --> 00:26:07,786 backing it up and that's no good. 511 00:26:08,626 --> 00:26:09,046 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 512 00:26:09,346 --> 00:26:12,466 W. Curtis Preston: So the next we have is desktops and laptops. 513 00:26:12,706 --> 00:26:16,456 Um, and this is, this is what I was referring to earlier when I was saying 514 00:26:16,456 --> 00:26:22,246 that we're gonna argue over whether or not you and I, but you know, whether 515 00:26:22,246 --> 00:26:24,286 or not these need to be backed up. 516 00:26:24,676 --> 00:26:29,536 Um, and I, I come down strongly on the back up, all the things. 517 00:26:30,406 --> 00:26:30,796 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 518 00:26:30,811 --> 00:26:34,261 W. Curtis Preston: Um, what do you, what, what have you run into? 519 00:26:34,261 --> 00:26:37,051 People talking about backing up their laptops out there. 520 00:26:38,476 --> 00:26:43,921 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, I have, I think, What you end up seeing is a lot of people 521 00:26:43,921 --> 00:26:45,361 are like, why would I need to back it up? 522 00:26:45,361 --> 00:26:48,811 Especially when you're using all these SaaS services like Microsoft 523 00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:52,261 365 Google Workspaces, right? 524 00:26:52,411 --> 00:26:56,591 How much, and I get the point because it's like how much data actually 525 00:26:56,596 --> 00:26:58,351 sits on your laptop these days? 526 00:26:58,521 --> 00:27:02,581 However, there are scenarios like you're offline for some reason. 527 00:27:02,581 --> 00:27:05,971 Like right now in California, we just got hit with an atmospheric river. 528 00:27:06,181 --> 00:27:07,231 There's a bunch of power outage. 529 00:27:08,276 --> 00:27:08,806 In the area, right? 530 00:27:08,806 --> 00:27:10,726 Which means no internet connectivity. 531 00:27:10,906 --> 00:27:14,746 If you have to work or if you're doing offline editing, that's great, but that 532 00:27:14,746 --> 00:27:17,416 data's sitting on your laptop, right? 533 00:27:17,416 --> 00:27:21,256 And so if that's important, you need to make sure you back it up, right? 534 00:27:21,256 --> 00:27:23,266 One of the things, you go back to Curtis, it's like, if it's 535 00:27:23,266 --> 00:27:24,316 important to you, back it up. 536 00:27:25,291 --> 00:27:25,831 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 537 00:27:25,831 --> 00:27:26,251 Yeah. 538 00:27:26,431 --> 00:27:27,001 The. 539 00:27:28,066 --> 00:27:33,736 The funny thing is that, um, well, yeah, so that's really what comes down to is 540 00:27:33,956 --> 00:27:40,456 do you ever create data on your laptop that only sits on your laptop, or, and 541 00:27:40,456 --> 00:27:44,566 by the way, um, the next thing we're gonna talk about is mobile devices. 542 00:27:45,316 --> 00:27:50,221 Um, And if you do so I do. 543 00:27:50,281 --> 00:27:50,701 Right? 544 00:27:51,121 --> 00:27:55,741 I make this podcast, um, and, uh, and I write. 545 00:27:55,861 --> 00:28:05,641 So, um, I, um, there is, although, and I write by voice, uh, you know, dictation. 546 00:28:06,121 --> 00:28:12,661 So for a brief period of time, all of the words of a particular chapter are. 547 00:28:14,026 --> 00:28:15,841 On, not just my laptop. 548 00:28:15,841 --> 00:28:20,881 It's funny, my laptop here, over to my right here is my Windows laptop that 549 00:28:20,881 --> 00:28:25,801 I use just for voice dictation because Dragon, uh, for some reason decided to 550 00:28:25,801 --> 00:28:28,411 give up the, uh, the Macintosh market. 551 00:28:29,161 --> 00:28:32,941 Um, but I've never, I haven't said the full word Macintosh at all. 552 00:28:32,986 --> 00:28:33,346 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Macin 553 00:28:34,111 --> 00:28:35,341 W. Curtis Preston: I dunno why I said that. 554 00:28:35,791 --> 00:28:41,671 Um, but, um, yeah, so for, for a brief period of time, Any 555 00:28:41,671 --> 00:28:47,611 given chapter is sitting only on that device, and it would suck. 556 00:28:48,241 --> 00:28:55,546 If I lost that chapter right, um, there are people who create, and, and I, 557 00:28:55,546 --> 00:29:00,226 and when I'm producing these podcasts right as I'm producing the podcast, 558 00:29:00,231 --> 00:29:06,496 various pieces of that podcast exist only on this laptop I don't use. 559 00:29:06,556 --> 00:29:10,636 So interestingly enough, interestingly enough, I now use. 560 00:29:12,136 --> 00:29:18,916 A sassy, it's not fully sass, but it is a sa now that I'm thinking about it, the 561 00:29:19,366 --> 00:29:24,346 script, which is the tool that I used to edit my podcast, which I love, right? 562 00:29:24,346 --> 00:29:25,186 I really do. 563 00:29:25,606 --> 00:29:32,986 Um, but the way it works is that as soon as you load files, as soon as you load 564 00:29:33,136 --> 00:29:38,086 the source files into script, they're immediately uploaded to the cloud. 565 00:29:38,956 --> 00:29:39,446 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 566 00:29:39,736 --> 00:29:41,056 W. Curtis Preston: on a local copy. 567 00:29:41,626 --> 00:29:47,986 Um, but it, but it's, it's immediately synchronizing, uh, the, the both 568 00:29:47,986 --> 00:29:52,546 the source files as well as all of your edits to the cloud so that, 569 00:29:52,636 --> 00:29:59,116 um, uh, and then it's, um, and it's maintaining a cache of that locally. 570 00:29:59,326 --> 00:29:59,626 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, 571 00:30:00,186 --> 00:30:03,181 W. Curtis Preston: Um, and so it's, it's kind of sassy. 572 00:30:03,451 --> 00:30:05,401 Um, but that's 573 00:30:05,416 --> 00:30:05,686 Prasanna Malaiyandi: but the 574 00:30:05,731 --> 00:30:08,341 W. Curtis Preston: like if you have, if you have a product like that, 575 00:30:08,341 --> 00:30:10,171 then maybe, maybe you don't have to. 576 00:30:10,176 --> 00:30:12,301 If that's the only thing you have, you might not have to back up. 577 00:30:12,856 --> 00:30:15,466 Prasanna Malaiyandi: but the question is, do they back up the stuff on their side? 578 00:30:18,091 --> 00:30:19,771 W. Curtis Preston: That is a really good question, right? 579 00:30:20,176 --> 00:30:21,136 Prasanna Malaiyandi: questions about SaaS. 580 00:30:21,136 --> 00:30:21,226 Right. 581 00:30:21,391 --> 00:30:22,621 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, yeah, yeah. 582 00:30:22,801 --> 00:30:31,531 Um, so, um, Which is why I do what I do, which is like I have a local copy of all 583 00:30:31,531 --> 00:30:33,991 of the pieces that go into the podcast. 584 00:30:34,741 --> 00:30:39,661 Um, I don't have, because I don't have a copy of 585 00:30:39,676 --> 00:30:40,906 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you also have the raw too, 586 00:30:41,461 --> 00:30:41,941 W. Curtis Preston: I have the 587 00:30:41,956 --> 00:30:43,036 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you also have the raw stuffers. 588 00:30:43,326 --> 00:30:44,671 W. Curtis Preston: have the raw stuff. 589 00:30:44,686 --> 00:30:47,026 Prasanna Malaiyandi: a long time to recover if you had to do that. 590 00:30:47,146 --> 00:30:50,296 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I would have to kind of re-edit 591 00:30:50,296 --> 00:30:52,396 an episode if I had to do that. 592 00:30:52,936 --> 00:31:00,136 Um, but, um, well, it, so first off, a number of things 593 00:31:00,136 --> 00:31:01,486 would have to happen, right? 594 00:31:01,486 --> 00:31:04,816 So the, the, the SaaS service would have to go down 595 00:31:05,866 --> 00:31:06,346 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Your laptop 596 00:31:06,406 --> 00:31:07,906 W. Curtis Preston: I would need to edit a past. 597 00:31:09,211 --> 00:31:11,821 Which I almost have never done, right? 598 00:31:11,881 --> 00:31:13,771 If I do, it happens within a day or two. 599 00:31:13,771 --> 00:31:19,231 It happened this week, oddly enough, uh, because I was editing, I was editing 600 00:31:19,231 --> 00:31:22,561 late at night and I messed up the intro. 601 00:31:22,981 --> 00:31:25,561 For those of you that are listeners, you heard a weird intro. 602 00:31:25,741 --> 00:31:27,091 You're, the music didn't match. 603 00:31:27,091 --> 00:31:31,411 It was a weird, uh, I figured that out as I was listening to it later 604 00:31:31,411 --> 00:31:32,491 and I was like, oh, I gotta fix it. 605 00:31:32,491 --> 00:31:35,761 So I had to go back and re-edit the, the podcast, but that 606 00:31:35,761 --> 00:31:36,631 was five minutes worth of. 607 00:31:37,966 --> 00:31:38,686 Monday 608 00:31:38,776 --> 00:31:39,736 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Because I was already there. 609 00:31:40,096 --> 00:31:41,356 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, and then I fixed it. 610 00:31:41,686 --> 00:31:41,956 Yeah. 611 00:31:41,956 --> 00:31:46,306 So, but I'm not going back and editing a podcast from two months ago. 612 00:31:46,966 --> 00:31:49,336 But anyway, this is, this is definitely an edge case, but 613 00:31:49,846 --> 00:31:50,146 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 614 00:31:50,176 --> 00:31:52,186 Well, and I know you're talking about podcasts, but the other 615 00:31:52,186 --> 00:31:54,616 thing, like I think a lot of people have is like they're pictures. 616 00:31:54,616 --> 00:31:57,916 Like I have, I take pictures where I used to take pictures, right? 617 00:31:57,916 --> 00:32:01,066 And I don't use any SaaS service for editing, right? 618 00:32:01,066 --> 00:32:05,296 I don't use Lightroom in the cloud or iCloud photos or whatever else, right? 619 00:32:05,296 --> 00:32:09,796 I do everything on my laptop, and so those pictures I never wanna lose. 620 00:32:09,796 --> 00:32:12,706 So I back that stuff up four times. 621 00:32:13,321 --> 00:32:16,401 I'm a little crazy, but I have four copies sitting in various places. 622 00:32:16,681 --> 00:32:20,251 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, uh, uh, we'll get to mobile devices next. 623 00:32:20,371 --> 00:32:25,351 Um, let me, but let me give, let me give a scenario of one of where I said 624 00:32:25,351 --> 00:32:28,801 in the book where I said, okay, I'm gonna concede the point on this one. 625 00:32:28,801 --> 00:32:32,011 And that is, um, Chromebooks. 626 00:32:33,651 --> 00:32:33,811 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Hmm. 627 00:32:34,366 --> 00:32:38,896 W. Curtis Preston: Chromebooks are nothing more than a cache for what's in Google. 628 00:32:39,826 --> 00:32:40,336 Right? 629 00:32:40,576 --> 00:32:44,746 Um, and so there's nothing that should ever be on the Chromebook 630 00:32:44,806 --> 00:32:50,206 other than just the late most recent synchronized changes, right? 631 00:32:50,296 --> 00:32:53,596 Uh, I, I, you know, you can use it offline and then synchronized changes, 632 00:32:53,866 --> 00:32:56,956 but honestly, if you were offline, you wouldn't be able to back it up anyway. 633 00:32:57,826 --> 00:32:58,516 Um, 634 00:32:58,726 --> 00:33:02,236 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I would say that listeners should wait till we get to the 635 00:33:02,236 --> 00:33:06,616 chapter on SaaS services, where we talk about what you need to do on that site. 636 00:33:06,736 --> 00:33:07,486 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, definitely, 637 00:33:07,696 --> 00:33:09,316 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So it's not that you, it eliminates the 638 00:33:09,316 --> 00:33:10,696 need to worry about backups. 639 00:33:10,696 --> 00:33:10,966 Right. 640 00:33:10,966 --> 00:33:13,696 It's just you don't need to back up your desktop. 641 00:33:14,026 --> 00:33:14,716 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 642 00:33:14,836 --> 00:33:15,526 Exactly. 643 00:33:15,646 --> 00:33:16,276 Exactly. 644 00:33:16,876 --> 00:33:19,996 Um, and then we talk about mobile devices. 645 00:33:20,176 --> 00:33:25,536 This one, uh, you know, and I'm, I'm gonna say that I. 646 00:33:26,731 --> 00:33:35,401 I am not compliant, uh, in this regard because I am trusting iCloud photos, 647 00:33:36,091 --> 00:33:40,081 and this is one of those things where I really have to look into this 648 00:33:40,086 --> 00:33:43,021 and I need to see if there we can come up with a solution for this. 649 00:33:43,021 --> 00:33:49,981 Because the beauty of the way the iPhone works and the way iCloud photos is that 650 00:33:50,011 --> 00:33:53,221 iCloud maintains the high res copy. 651 00:33:53,236 --> 00:33:53,731 Prasanna Malaiyandi: master. 652 00:33:54,431 --> 00:33:58,036 W. Curtis Preston: Right, and then on my phone is like the low res copy, 653 00:33:58,966 --> 00:34:03,196 and I only get the high res copy if I like actually start using a photo. 654 00:34:03,201 --> 00:34:13,426 I get it automatically, but there's no way that I can find yet, um, to, 655 00:34:13,426 --> 00:34:18,106 to get all of those high res photos out easily and store them someplace. 656 00:34:20,091 --> 00:34:20,511 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Can. 657 00:34:20,731 --> 00:34:21,121 Hmm. 658 00:34:21,911 --> 00:34:22,191 Interesting. 659 00:34:23,911 --> 00:34:26,401 W. Curtis Preston: Um, but, but, but this, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna 660 00:34:26,401 --> 00:34:29,701 submit this as a, as a thing where I'm not doing the right thing. 661 00:34:30,391 --> 00:34:30,961 Okay? 662 00:34:31,261 --> 00:34:35,161 Um, and I am trusting Apple far too much now. 663 00:34:35,161 --> 00:34:36,211 I am paying for them. 664 00:34:36,481 --> 00:34:39,141 I am paying for them to store this data. 665 00:34:40,246 --> 00:34:46,831 So, you know, but the data, the photos that matter to me are only in one place. 666 00:34:48,331 --> 00:34:48,681 So 667 00:34:48,821 --> 00:34:49,521 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Bad Curtis. 668 00:34:49,661 --> 00:34:50,081 Bad. 669 00:34:50,491 --> 00:34:50,791 W. Curtis Preston: right. 670 00:34:50,796 --> 00:34:55,081 The high res versions of these photos are only, and videos are only in one place. 671 00:34:55,561 --> 00:34:58,891 Mainly it would be the really cool videos of my granddaughter, 672 00:34:58,891 --> 00:35:00,211 Lily, that I would miss. 673 00:35:00,331 --> 00:35:00,691 Right. 674 00:35:01,606 --> 00:35:01,876 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 675 00:35:02,716 --> 00:35:05,836 But still, you should figure out how to at least pull that data down 676 00:35:05,836 --> 00:35:07,876 to a laptop, so then you can then 677 00:35:08,281 --> 00:35:09,721 W. Curtis Preston: I, I've, I've looked into it. 678 00:35:10,421 --> 00:35:13,051 I, I, I've looked into it and I, I don't wanna spend too much time 679 00:35:13,051 --> 00:35:17,101 talking about here, but I've looked into it before and, and, and I think 680 00:35:17,161 --> 00:35:18,361 then I got busy with other things. 681 00:35:19,531 --> 00:35:24,316 Um, but, uh, And, and I really do need to come up with it, with a solution, and 682 00:35:24,316 --> 00:35:28,756 I need to bring, um, need to bring our friend, uh, Daniel on, uh, for that one. 683 00:35:29,116 --> 00:35:36,766 But, um, but the, the, the point that I want to make is that iCloud photos being 684 00:35:36,771 --> 00:35:44,236 an exception here, if your device that you're holding is, is basically one of 685 00:35:44,236 --> 00:35:51,346 two copies, um, You know, you that, that basically the cloud maintains a backup 686 00:35:51,346 --> 00:35:57,376 copy of your phone and you maintain a copy of your phone and the, and the 687 00:35:57,376 --> 00:36:04,366 cloud has the ability to, here's a big, here's a big if, if the cloud I, if you 688 00:36:04,371 --> 00:36:09,196 go into your phone and you basically delete all your photos, is there any 689 00:36:09,196 --> 00:36:10,816 way to get those back on the cloud? 690 00:36:12,226 --> 00:36:15,256 Um, cuz that's mainly what we're talking about, right? 691 00:36:15,316 --> 00:36:16,126 It's photos. 692 00:36:17,366 --> 00:36:23,191 Um, in your email, you're basically, you're just a cash of the, um, right? 693 00:36:24,261 --> 00:36:26,581 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think messages work the same way as well. 694 00:36:26,581 --> 00:36:28,201 Lisa, if you're using iMessage. 695 00:36:28,201 --> 00:36:29,071 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, yeah. 696 00:36:29,101 --> 00:36:31,381 Well, and the other, yeah, the other thing, well, yeah. 697 00:36:32,251 --> 00:36:37,561 Um, It, it, it gets, it gets more complicated when we start talking 698 00:36:37,561 --> 00:36:39,631 about consumer personal devices. 699 00:36:40,101 --> 00:36:45,361 If, if you're, if you're a, a, uh, a commercial user, you can, 700 00:36:45,811 --> 00:36:49,531 there, there are services, Druva backs up, uh, mobile devices. 701 00:36:49,536 --> 00:36:51,131 It backs up the iPhone, right? 702 00:36:51,781 --> 00:36:57,511 Um, but we can only back up, and by we, I mean any vendors that do this, we can only 703 00:36:57,511 --> 00:37:01,981 back up what the OS vendor allows us to. 704 00:37:02,991 --> 00:37:03,411 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 705 00:37:04,156 --> 00:37:09,046 W. Curtis Preston: Uh, which on the iPhone means pretty much only Apple 706 00:37:09,191 --> 00:37:09,631 Prasanna Malaiyandi: a whole lot. 707 00:37:10,546 --> 00:37:10,966 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 708 00:37:10,996 --> 00:37:16,606 Like, like, um, like if there was a des on the iPhone, is 709 00:37:16,606 --> 00:37:17,506 there a script on the iPhone? 710 00:37:18,036 --> 00:37:20,866 I dunno if there was a script on the iPhone, like I couldn't back 711 00:37:20,866 --> 00:37:23,986 up its data because that's just the way, it's a security feature. 712 00:37:25,111 --> 00:37:25,441 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 713 00:37:25,711 --> 00:37:27,151 And even WhatsApp is the same, right? 714 00:37:27,151 --> 00:37:32,641 You have to use WhatsApp's Cloud backup where it'll sync the data to some data 715 00:37:32,641 --> 00:37:37,081 source you get, you tell it to, but you can't use it through a centralized place 716 00:37:37,081 --> 00:37:39,001 to backup everything on your iPhone. 717 00:37:39,646 --> 00:37:40,486 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 718 00:37:40,491 --> 00:37:41,086 Exactly, 719 00:37:41,491 --> 00:37:47,611 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Although, I do wonder what happens when you do a physical 720 00:37:47,611 --> 00:37:51,091 backup using a lightning cable in iTunes? 721 00:37:53,596 --> 00:37:55,456 W. Curtis Preston: Are you talking Are, are you back to photos? 722 00:37:56,731 --> 00:37:57,162 Prasanna Malaiyandi: No, no, no. 723 00:37:57,167 --> 00:37:57,901 Just in general. 724 00:37:58,081 --> 00:37:58,351 Right? 725 00:37:58,351 --> 00:37:59,611 So I can load iTunes, right? 726 00:37:59,611 --> 00:38:00,931 I could say backup my phone. 727 00:38:01,201 --> 00:38:04,801 I think it does capture all that data though, so 728 00:38:04,971 --> 00:38:05,236 W. Curtis Preston: does. 729 00:38:05,236 --> 00:38:06,886 It doesn't solve my photo problem though, 730 00:38:08,221 --> 00:38:09,451 Prasanna Malaiyandi: No, it doesn't solve well. 731 00:38:10,096 --> 00:38:13,516 W. Curtis Preston: because my phone doesn't have the, the high res copies. 732 00:38:13,606 --> 00:38:13,936 Right. 733 00:38:14,581 --> 00:38:15,001 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 734 00:38:15,886 --> 00:38:18,946 W. Curtis Preston: I wi here's what I wish, I wish there was a cloud service 735 00:38:18,946 --> 00:38:24,886 that I could pay that would be able to export my high res photos out of, uh, I. 736 00:38:25,726 --> 00:38:26,566 And just back it up. 737 00:38:26,566 --> 00:38:29,896 I pay for that service, but they don't make it available. 738 00:38:30,616 --> 00:38:33,766 They don't make those, um, the high res copies. 739 00:38:33,826 --> 00:38:39,646 I think I can sync them to my laptop, but then I need, I need a lot of storage. 740 00:38:40,751 --> 00:38:41,241 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah, 741 00:38:41,716 --> 00:38:44,536 W. Curtis Preston: I have, I have no idea how many terabytes 742 00:38:44,541 --> 00:38:47,656 of photos I have up in iCloud. 743 00:38:48,376 --> 00:38:53,596 Um, I know for a fact that I would need a separate drive. 744 00:38:55,171 --> 00:38:55,661 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 745 00:38:56,371 --> 00:39:00,091 W. Curtis Preston: but, but basically, so regarding mobile 746 00:39:00,091 --> 00:39:02,371 devices, my opinion is the same. 747 00:39:02,731 --> 00:39:09,091 If you're creating data on these devices that is important to you, and it's only 748 00:39:09,091 --> 00:39:13,291 on that device or only in the cloud, uh, you should back up that data. 749 00:39:13,441 --> 00:39:17,131 And yes, I, I know, I know I need to listen to my own, my own 750 00:39:17,131 --> 00:39:19,081 advice regarding the, the photos. 751 00:39:19,921 --> 00:39:27,376 Um, But if this is corporate data, uh, you get, you get no, you get no grace. 752 00:39:27,526 --> 00:39:28,366 Uh, right. 753 00:39:28,576 --> 00:39:33,526 Um, I can think of, I worked with an engineering company in St. 754 00:39:33,526 --> 00:39:40,906 Louis, um, and, uh, they, they basically, they would send 755 00:39:40,906 --> 00:39:43,426 people out into the field with. 756 00:39:44,056 --> 00:39:46,936 iPads and they would take pictures of jobs. 757 00:39:47,206 --> 00:39:50,026 Those, you know, those were photos that needed to be backed up. 758 00:39:50,026 --> 00:39:53,356 Those were corporate data that existed only in those tablets 759 00:39:53,356 --> 00:39:54,376 and only in those accounts. 760 00:39:54,376 --> 00:39:54,616 Right. 761 00:39:55,606 --> 00:40:02,836 Um, so you would have to, anyway, I, I don't want to, I don't want to, but 762 00:40:02,836 --> 00:40:07,066 my point is, if it's data that's being created and is, it exists only in 763 00:40:07,066 --> 00:40:08,746 one place, it needs to be backed up. 764 00:40:09,106 --> 00:40:09,436 Right. 765 00:40:09,856 --> 00:40:10,816 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And it's important to you? 766 00:40:11,191 --> 00:40:12,301 W. Curtis Preston: And it's important to you, right? 767 00:40:12,301 --> 00:40:13,831 If it's data that doesn't matter. 768 00:40:13,906 --> 00:40:14,146 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 769 00:40:15,151 --> 00:40:16,321 W. Curtis Preston: I just dunno what that data 770 00:40:16,456 --> 00:40:17,206 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Don't back it up. 771 00:40:17,386 --> 00:40:17,776 Yeah. 772 00:40:18,241 --> 00:40:20,101 W. Curtis Preston: Is there data that doesn't matter? 773 00:40:22,246 --> 00:40:23,266 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, I was thinking. 774 00:40:25,016 --> 00:40:28,621 Like if you didn't care about like random pictures you're taking or if 775 00:40:28,621 --> 00:40:32,521 you're taking, say, a picture of a document just for convenience sake, 776 00:40:33,421 --> 00:40:34,471 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, yeah, 777 00:40:34,471 --> 00:40:34,891 Prasanna Malaiyandi: to someone. 778 00:40:35,251 --> 00:40:35,761 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 779 00:40:36,031 --> 00:40:40,501 If you're only using it to send the, you know, you take the picture and then you 780 00:40:40,501 --> 00:40:43,951 send it to the other person and they're the recipient of the picture, then 781 00:40:43,956 --> 00:40:45,481 that document doesn't matter anymore. 782 00:40:45,901 --> 00:40:46,411 Um, 783 00:40:46,481 --> 00:40:46,971 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 784 00:40:48,031 --> 00:40:48,541 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 785 00:40:48,661 --> 00:40:51,691 Uh, there is this concept, by the way that I mentioned in here of 786 00:40:51,696 --> 00:40:55,231 mobile device management, which you really should think about. 787 00:40:55,231 --> 00:41:00,241 So if you're, so it's very common as I do, it's very common to use your. 788 00:41:01,486 --> 00:41:04,036 Cell phone at work. 789 00:41:04,306 --> 00:41:04,786 Right. 790 00:41:04,786 --> 00:41:09,736 It's very common for companies not to buy, uh, mobile phones anymore. 791 00:41:09,736 --> 00:41:10,036 Right. 792 00:41:10,726 --> 00:41:16,486 But if, um, if you are concerned about the security implications of that, that's what 793 00:41:16,486 --> 00:41:18,616 mobile device management is for, right? 794 00:41:19,426 --> 00:41:19,606 You c 795 00:41:19,801 --> 00:41:20,971 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And it's corporate data, right? 796 00:41:20,971 --> 00:41:23,731 You wanna make sure that if something happens to the phone, like it's 797 00:41:23,731 --> 00:41:27,541 lost or whatever else, you could protect your corporate data and 798 00:41:27,541 --> 00:41:29,431 remote wipe the device, et cetera. 799 00:41:29,716 --> 00:41:30,376 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 800 00:41:30,556 --> 00:41:31,276 Exactly. 801 00:41:31,396 --> 00:41:36,676 Uh, and it also, it also creates like a, like almost, I don't know, it's like 802 00:41:36,676 --> 00:41:39,346 a virtu, it's like a vpc, you know? 803 00:41:39,496 --> 00:41:41,836 Uh, inside the phone, A sandbox. 804 00:41:42,016 --> 00:41:43,186 That's a better, that's a better term. 805 00:41:43,216 --> 00:41:46,486 Creates a sandbox in the phone where you can put corporate apps. 806 00:41:47,026 --> 00:41:48,706 Uh, yeah, exactly. 807 00:41:49,006 --> 00:41:50,416 Uh, and you can make your own rules. 808 00:41:51,076 --> 00:41:54,016 Um, Back up, all the things. 809 00:41:54,046 --> 00:41:59,506 Um, I'm gonna pull, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to the last page in the chapter 810 00:41:59,536 --> 00:42:02,596 cuz I've, I've got final thoughts in the chapter and I wonder what I said. 811 00:42:04,966 --> 00:42:05,596 Um, 812 00:42:05,881 --> 00:42:08,941 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think it is really, and here's the thing. 813 00:42:08,946 --> 00:42:11,791 I know we talked about if it's important, back it up. 814 00:42:12,271 --> 00:42:15,301 I think the flip side is if you don't know what data is important 815 00:42:15,301 --> 00:42:16,531 or not, back up everything. 816 00:42:18,886 --> 00:42:19,576 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly 817 00:42:19,771 --> 00:42:20,821 Prasanna Malaiyandi: safe than sorry. 818 00:42:22,141 --> 00:42:22,501 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 819 00:42:22,591 --> 00:42:26,431 What I, what I did mention here is that some companies are adopting 820 00:42:26,431 --> 00:42:30,691 a sync and share tool as their backup method for their laptops. 821 00:42:30,691 --> 00:42:34,801 And I did mention in the, in the, um, in the chapter that, 822 00:42:34,801 --> 00:42:36,301 that that was a bad idea. 823 00:42:36,781 --> 00:42:41,761 Um, if it's corporate data and I can, basically, the problem with 824 00:42:41,761 --> 00:42:45,391 sync and share is if I delete it on my laptop, I delete it in the cloud. 825 00:42:46,321 --> 00:42:50,926 Um, if, if you've got a solution for that particular problem, a good 826 00:42:51,516 --> 00:42:54,856 solution to be able to restore that customer's account, that user's 827 00:42:54,856 --> 00:42:58,816 account, and my laptop, back to the way it looked before something happened. 828 00:42:58,816 --> 00:43:02,266 Because now what we're talking about is things like ransomware, right? 829 00:43:02,416 --> 00:43:05,986 Sync and share is a great way to put ransomware in the cloud, right? 830 00:43:06,556 --> 00:43:10,936 Um, you know, encrypt all those stuff on your, on your desktop and then 831 00:43:10,936 --> 00:43:13,966 your encrypt, and then it's just gonna synchronize it up, up to the cloud. 832 00:43:15,241 --> 00:43:17,071 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Now, here's a question. 833 00:43:17,071 --> 00:43:20,431 I know we'll probably talk about it in the SaaS chapter, but for that sync and 834 00:43:20,431 --> 00:43:25,501 share solution, if they were taking copies of those, the data that existed in the 835 00:43:25,501 --> 00:43:28,351 cloud backups of the data that existed in the cloud, would that change your mind? 836 00:43:31,411 --> 00:43:38,581 W. Curtis Preston: Um, if you could, yeah, I, I think in general. 837 00:43:38,586 --> 00:43:39,691 In general, yes. 838 00:43:39,691 --> 00:43:40,141 Right. 839 00:43:40,141 --> 00:43:43,201 But in general, what I'm finding is that's not the point. 840 00:43:43,516 --> 00:43:43,666 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 841 00:43:43,666 --> 00:43:44,716 No, yeah, exactly. 842 00:43:44,716 --> 00:43:45,786 No one's really doing 843 00:43:45,946 --> 00:43:47,956 W. Curtis Preston: they're saying, they're saying, well, we're 844 00:43:47,956 --> 00:43:50,446 trying to save money, right? 845 00:43:50,446 --> 00:43:52,156 And so we're not gonna back up laptops. 846 00:43:52,156 --> 00:43:53,536 We're just gonna use OneDrive. 847 00:43:53,596 --> 00:43:55,396 Well, you're backing up OneDrive, right? 848 00:43:55,726 --> 00:43:58,636 Well, no, because it's Microsoft and it's a SaaS service. 849 00:43:59,086 --> 00:43:59,956 You're wrong. 850 00:44:00,766 --> 00:44:02,956 You're just plain wrong. 851 00:44:03,126 --> 00:44:03,686 Right? 852 00:44:04,096 --> 00:44:06,646 Just Google the Microsoft. 853 00:44:07,456 --> 00:44:09,166 Shared responsibility model. 854 00:44:09,166 --> 00:44:14,086 Read the page, the information and data, your responsibility, not theirs. 855 00:44:14,626 --> 00:44:17,716 It's plain as day on their website. 856 00:44:18,226 --> 00:44:21,256 So stop telling me that you don't need to back up. 857 00:44:21,616 --> 00:44:22,876 Uh, OneDrive. 858 00:44:23,926 --> 00:44:30,256 Um, but um, yeah, so, so yeah. 859 00:44:30,256 --> 00:44:36,631 So, so to go back to your question though, if you're backing up, Um, you 860 00:44:36,636 --> 00:44:43,291 know, the cloud that you're syncing to, to something else, then, you know, 861 00:44:43,291 --> 00:44:45,421 maybe I would withdraw my objection. 862 00:44:46,051 --> 00:44:48,631 Um, well, I, I withdraw my objection. 863 00:44:48,631 --> 00:44:51,481 I just, it's maybe I might have a different objection. 864 00:44:52,051 --> 00:44:52,411 Right. 865 00:44:52,471 --> 00:44:52,951 Um, 866 00:44:52,976 --> 00:44:53,101 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, 867 00:44:54,031 --> 00:44:54,391 W. Curtis Preston: but, uh, 868 00:44:54,961 --> 00:44:57,361 Prasanna Malaiyandi: it's just how it's being implemented would be the question. 869 00:44:57,946 --> 00:44:58,906 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 870 00:44:58,996 --> 00:45:02,896 Um, would we get all the data? 871 00:45:03,046 --> 00:45:06,736 Obviously there's a potential of data loss there depending on how well the 872 00:45:06,736 --> 00:45:09,886 synchronization is happening because here's my problem with OneDrive, 873 00:45:10,246 --> 00:45:16,176 specifically OneDrive, is that there are no global controls over how 874 00:45:16,696 --> 00:45:19,066 synchronization works or if it works. 875 00:45:19,786 --> 00:45:24,286 So there's no, there's no console that says all of my users are sync. 876 00:45:25,746 --> 00:45:29,461 That's, to me as a, as a practitioner, that's terrifying. 877 00:45:30,151 --> 00:45:30,511 Right. 878 00:45:30,511 --> 00:45:32,221 And so this goes back to your question. 879 00:45:33,301 --> 00:45:38,401 So it, you're still relying on the synchronization process of OneDrive, 880 00:45:38,401 --> 00:45:44,401 which for the record can be de can be deactivated by any user at any time. 881 00:45:45,331 --> 00:45:49,381 And not only can it be deactivated, and I've heard that you can deactivate 882 00:45:49,381 --> 00:45:52,291 that ability, if I've heard you can turn on off that ability. 883 00:45:53,896 --> 00:45:56,686 They just have to like, not connect to the internet. 884 00:45:56,746 --> 00:46:00,916 They could connect to the internet for a long time or not connect to 365, right? 885 00:46:00,916 --> 00:46:01,546 Or whatever. 886 00:46:02,026 --> 00:46:08,206 Um, the, the, the fact that there's no global view for me to see that everybody 887 00:46:08,206 --> 00:46:13,186 is syncing and then for me to notice, oh, Prasanna hasn't synced in a week. 888 00:46:13,186 --> 00:46:14,196 What's, what's, what's going on? 889 00:46:14,196 --> 00:46:14,666 Prasanna? 890 00:46:14,666 --> 00:46:16,726 And you're like, oh, well my network card died. 891 00:46:16,786 --> 00:46:19,126 Oh, well perhaps we should get you a new network 892 00:46:19,291 --> 00:46:19,771 Prasanna Malaiyandi: fix that. 893 00:46:20,401 --> 00:46:20,851 Yeah. 894 00:46:21,016 --> 00:46:23,806 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, my, my home internet went out because I live in 895 00:46:23,806 --> 00:46:30,436 the Bay Area and we've been having background, little, little, little bit 896 00:46:30,436 --> 00:46:33,226 of a rain up there and down here as well. 897 00:46:33,231 --> 00:46:34,666 It was raining quite a bit this morning. 898 00:46:35,986 --> 00:46:36,616 How's the weather right 899 00:46:36,721 --> 00:46:39,691 Prasanna Malaiyandi: more than the rain was, it's nice and sunny. 900 00:46:39,781 --> 00:46:40,561 Or it was sunny. 901 00:46:40,561 --> 00:46:43,381 Now it's overcast, but no rain until next week. 902 00:46:43,381 --> 00:46:47,521 But yeah, I think it was a 50 mile per hour gusts yesterday 903 00:46:47,591 --> 00:46:51,031 that sort of did a lot of things or brought a lot of things down. 904 00:46:51,031 --> 00:46:51,451 So, 905 00:46:51,541 --> 00:46:55,231 W. Curtis Preston: Speaking of the 50 mile per hour gust, uh, I believe that you 906 00:46:55,291 --> 00:46:59,611 solved our blueberry, uh, mystery as well. 907 00:47:00,466 --> 00:47:04,186 Um, remember I was saying that I had these blueberry 908 00:47:04,291 --> 00:47:04,791 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, yeah, 909 00:47:04,846 --> 00:47:07,786 W. Curtis Preston: over my, all over both cars and all over the driveway. 910 00:47:08,296 --> 00:47:12,916 Uh, we looked, and they're not actual blueberries, but they're blueberries. 911 00:47:12,921 --> 00:47:13,876 They're not blueberries. 912 00:47:14,386 --> 00:47:19,306 Uh, but yeah, the neighbor, the neighbor house over has a tree. 913 00:47:19,766 --> 00:47:20,846 With little blueberries in it. 914 00:47:21,176 --> 00:47:25,226 And so it must have been the gusts, all the gusts that we had, they must have 915 00:47:25,226 --> 00:47:30,116 just been blown over and we just were the unfortunate recipients of all of those. 916 00:47:31,466 --> 00:47:33,146 They just went everywhere. 917 00:47:33,686 --> 00:47:34,586 And it was like, what? 918 00:47:34,976 --> 00:47:36,986 At first we thought they were birds, right? 919 00:47:36,991 --> 00:47:39,446 But it was like, man did an entire flock of birds at eight 920 00:47:39,446 --> 00:47:41,546 berries just fly over our house. 921 00:47:43,556 --> 00:47:43,976 Yeah. 922 00:47:44,526 --> 00:47:45,136 Anyway. 923 00:47:45,151 --> 00:47:46,441 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Uh, Curtis. 924 00:47:46,756 --> 00:47:47,536 W. Curtis Preston: Absolutely. 925 00:47:47,566 --> 00:47:51,136 All right, well thanks, uh, thanks again, Prasanna for chatting 926 00:47:51,136 --> 00:47:52,366 about our favorite subject. 927 00:47:53,611 --> 00:47:57,031 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Thank you for educating me on or enlighten 928 00:47:57,031 --> 00:47:59,101 me on bare metal restores. 929 00:47:59,551 --> 00:48:00,361 See, I learn something 930 00:48:00,826 --> 00:48:06,496 W. Curtis Preston: back in the day, um, yeah, we used to do, I used 931 00:48:06,496 --> 00:48:08,716 to do, do you remember ZIP drives? 932 00:48:09,811 --> 00:48:10,051 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 933 00:48:10,501 --> 00:48:14,431 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, so I used to do a bare metal backup of my Linux laptop, 934 00:48:15,031 --> 00:48:20,281 and we could do it with windows too, uh, of, of the, of an Intel based laptop. 935 00:48:20,731 --> 00:48:25,021 Uh, with zip drive, basically you would, you would boot, you would boot. 936 00:48:25,021 --> 00:48:31,141 You needed a floppy, you needed a floppy, you would boot, you had a mini route 937 00:48:31,171 --> 00:48:34,231 that was on the floppy, like Tom's, Archie, bt, you remember that one. 938 00:48:34,771 --> 00:48:37,651 Um, you would boot, you would put that on the floppy. 939 00:48:37,651 --> 00:48:38,551 You'd boot to. 940 00:48:39,181 --> 00:48:44,281 The zip drive would have, you could read the zip drive, uh, 941 00:48:44,761 --> 00:48:46,561 and you would actually use dd. 942 00:48:46,561 --> 00:48:49,891 You would use DD to, to, which 943 00:48:49,996 --> 00:48:50,656 Prasanna Malaiyandi: bring the data 944 00:48:50,796 --> 00:48:52,636 W. Curtis Preston: I don't know what Didi stood for. 945 00:48:52,636 --> 00:48:53,746 Direct disk. 946 00:48:53,836 --> 00:48:54,436 I don't know. 947 00:48:55,006 --> 00:48:57,316 Uh, it was a Unix command and you could do it. 948 00:48:57,316 --> 00:49:01,366 Basically it was a block to block copy of the drive and you 949 00:49:01,366 --> 00:49:03,106 created a file on the zip drive. 950 00:49:03,111 --> 00:49:06,256 And that's how I used to do Bemo on my laptops back in 951 00:49:06,256 --> 00:49:09,676 the day, uh, back in the day. 952 00:49:10,016 --> 00:49:12,176 ATR2500x-USB Microphone & Logitech BRIO-1: Thanks for joining us for this rebroadcast 953 00:49:12,176 --> 00:49:14,366 of a classic episode from last year. 954 00:49:14,606 --> 00:49:16,286 I hope you have a great year. 955 00:49:16,796 --> 00:49:17,914 That's a wrap.