Janice Porter: Hi, everyone, and welcome to the relationships
rule podcast. I'm your host, Janice Porter. And my special
guest this week is Bill Troy. Welcome to the show, Bill. So
thank you. So I've had the privilege and pleasure of
interviewing Bill's co founder in his company and wife, Kim, on
my podcast just recently, and I hadn't met Bill before. And I
started looking into what he was all about, and decided that I
needed to talk to him too. And he kindly offered or agreed to
come on the podcast, because Bill wrote a book called click
sand. First of all, I love the name. Second of all, the the add
on to that is cliques, and how online marketing will destroy
your business. And the unlikely secret to saving and is that
part of the Yes,
Bill Troy: yes. Right. The publisher said you can't just
leave it with a like a negative like that. Exactly. Right. And,
Janice Porter: and so just the first thing that I want to say
to you is contrarian, people are contrarian. So talk to me about
that, because I think I'm a bit on your side with this. So do
share, please.
Bill Troy: Well, I will contrarian is just challenging
the status quo. You know, it probably started when I was a
kid probably started, you know, in school, every teacher go,
Wait a minute. Where'd you get that? Right? Can you prove that?
So? I just kind of taking on a persona. Yeah, I just I just
feel like so many people just go along with what everybody says
it's like,
Janice Porter: yeah. And so you were that kid that always said,
why? Oh, yeah. Yes. I know, there used to be a kid in my
math class, back in elementary school. And every time the math
teacher said something, she had her hand up. But sir, but Sir,
and I still remember this to this day, because that's exactly
what she was doing. She was challenging everything that you
said. And we were in elementary school. So God knows what she
ended up being but the kind of thing to know. Yeah.
Bill Troy: So I was I was not the polite one to raise my
hands. I was just in the back of the room making smart aleck
comments. So same family? Yeah,
Janice Porter: yeah, yeah, exactly. So what I what I tell
me about cliques and and you know, what started that book.
And, and I know a little bit, but I want my audience to hear
Bill Troy: from you. So the book really started from an
interaction we had with an elderly couple who came to
CIVILUS for marketing help. They had a business, it was an online
business. And they were spending lots of money on online ads, and
they were making sales. And they came to us and said, We really
need that your help to make to make it work to make more money
to make more sales, and we analyze the business, we
realized they were losing money on every sale, they were
spending more to get each sale with the online ads, and they
were making in profit. And they didn't really understand that
they were naive, they've been sold a franchise business was
supposed to be turnkey, was supposed to be their retirement,
they put everything into it. And they couldn't explain to them
that this is a trap, this is a negative thing. You there's no
way out of this, you've been sold a bill of goods. And it was
just really heartbreaking for us to see people sort of fall for a
sales pitch like that, and believe that with all their
heart to need to believe with all their heart, and it's like,
Okay, enough of this, I'm gonna, you know, I wasn't planning to
write a book, but it's like, I'm gonna write a book and tell
people about this. Because there are things about technology is
great. But there are things about and especially the way
it's sold and used, that is very destructive. And a lot of people
don't realize that. And a lot of business owners fall for it and
end up hurting themselves without realizing. So that's
what quicksand is out there to stop.
Janice Porter: Yes, it's so true. You say, I know you. I've
heard you say that. You can't when you can't trust online
marketing, because even the online marketers sell face to
face, right?
Bill Troy: Well think about that. Yeah, you've never bought
online marketing with online marketing. No, I had actually
one time with a guy who thought I told this anecdote anecdote
before that was VP of Sales for an online marketing company was
a local company selling businesses getting local
businesses on the internet. I said, Well, how you getting
clients, we have ad sales reps calling on every business in
town, like do you hear this? What what you're even saying he
didn't even understand what he was saying. It was He was so
oblivious, thinking he was helping all these clients like
it. So online marketers don't use online marketing. And here's
the here's the funny thing. And it's not just a local agency
like that. If you do go on and you buy you buy AdWords or you
buy whatever and these days the big thing is recruiting so you
sign up for indeed, if your credit card and start getting an
account, guess what you're gonna get, you're gonna get a phone
call from a helpful consultant that those companies you know
what that call titles job is to sell you more to get you to buy
more clicks, more clicks, they're not there to help you
fill the position or make sales, they're there to sell clicks.
And it's going to seem very nice and open and wonderful. But
beware. So yeah, they don't use that they sell with old school
relationships and personal. So
Janice Porter: I also I want to ask you about this because I my
experiences with LinkedIn, and I do LinkedIn training, as you
know, and I know that I heard you say on on, may have been
another podcast, that people are not using LinkedIn to increase
intimacy, but to coerce customers. And, and, and and
when they use that third party tool, let's say to help them get
more messages out to more people and connect to more people. It's
quite often it's about selling them something and pitching them
as well. And and so I talk to people all the time about you
know, it's about trying to build a relationship, not sell, sell,
sell. And so how can you do that when you're using a third party
tool or an online tool to make those connections and message
for you? What's your answer to that? What do you say to that?
Well,
Bill Troy: it's not the tool, any more than it's paper or
telephone. I mean, you use tools all the time to communicate with
people, I mean, you don't always aren't always face to face. So
you do send people notes and letters and emails and
telephone. So it's not the tool itself, it's how you use the
tool, and who's teaching you how to use the tool. When someone
comes to you, you don't say send as many messages, you can do as
many people as you can, and just 1% of those people don't do that
sort of thing. So you can do that with paper. I mean, one of
the anecdotes in my book is the original spam. The first spam in
the history of the world is the MacDonald the Montgomery Ward
catalog, right. In the late 1800s, people started getting
catalogs in their mailbox that didn't ask for, which was
marketing, in hopes that some small percentage of people would
buy stuff that was the original spam unsolicited marketing
messages, now we get them. So if you're going to do spam, you can
do with any tool, I mean, you can do spam with telephone, you
know, robo calls. So it's not the tool, it's how you use it.
And it's not letting the people who sell the tool who make money
from the more you use the tool, make money from you more money
from you, if you use the tool more tell you how to use the
tool, it's usually about using it better, not more, right.
Janice Porter: And you said something else that I absolutely
love, because I teach this as well is, you know, most people
look at the top of somebody's LinkedIn profile, and they never
dig deeper and look. And when I teach people how to create their
profile, I'm always saying add here, add there, do this, add
those little things that make you human that make you unique,
that show who you are, and then the people who are really paying
attention will find those things. And we'll use them in
conversation with you. That's when you know, they're trying to
build a relationship.
Bill Troy: Yeah. And one of the things I would add to that, I
always get pushback from people, well, I don't have time to
scroll down. Everyone's thinking, blah, blah, blah. And
you know what the answer to that is, that means you're going
after people that are too small, you need to go after bigger
customers. If you don't have the time to invest in a
relationship, then you're trying to sell something cheap and fast
and quick. And that is not a relationship. That's a
transaction. Right? And most likely your best sales, your
biggest sales ever were from human interaction and
relationships. So go after bigger customers that you can
invest the time. And every company can do that everybody
starts to say, well, we don't, I don't care. If you're a hot dog
vendor on the sidewalk, you can go after bigger customers get a
catering gig, right? corporate events, get it sold to a
corporate event and show up at a corporate party. Everybody can
go after bigger customers where there's the room and their
resources to invest in that relationship, and then use the
tools to do that. So
Janice Porter: to me, that sounds like you have to be
creative number one. And also though, you have to have the
confidence to do that.
Bill Troy: Yes. I think it's not even just that it's also
sticking to your values. I think there's fear. I'm afraid that if
I don't hit more people today than my competitor, I'm gonna
fall behind. There's a sort of fear of fear of missing out
right home. And that is perpetuated by the people who
sell digital marketing tools, massive marketing tools, and
you've got to find out what's true inside you and go with
that. And that's that's a message I share a lot with CEOs
because what I find is the business owners, let's say
they're a little older and grayer like I am. They're told
that they're out of touch, right? Because they didn't just
graduate from a marketing online marketing class at the community
college last month, and so they don't know the latest and
greatest digital tools. And so you're, you're, you're you don't
get it step out of the way. Let me show you how it's done. It's
like, No, you know, the root values of this company and what
the customer needs. And don't let people push you aside, step
back in and say, Look, this is what we do. This is how we treat
people. And if we're going to use digital tools, it's still
got fit within that we cannot sacrifice that for some, you
know, Mirage, we're going to chase with some perfect keyword.
Janice Porter: Yeah, that's so true. So it's, it's also then
about that famous word that I love is wisdom is about those of
us with some wisdom needs to stand in our stand our ground
and, and know and believe that what we're saying still holds
true. And I think it does. And, and it's funny, because I was
talking to a woman yesterday, about the other side of my
business, the relationship marketing tool that I use that
we've talked about. And she said, You know, I send cards to
my grandchildren, my, like, young adult grandchildren, and
my teenage grandchildren, but they never say thank you. She
said, I don't think they've been taught to say thank you. And I
said, first of all, they should be sending you cards and picking
up the phone and talking to you. But secondly, you're probably
right. I mean, in some cases, you know, that add mentality
that, that, you know, we're still busy that we just have to
keep moving, and we forget to teach our children some of these
things today, you know, because we're trying to do so many
things, and keep your head above water, generally speaking, but
that just made me think that's kind of fit with what you were
saying in terms of, you know, stick to your stick to your
ground. And, and, and know that it really, people have to trust
their gut more, I think, I don't know, I've been looking for
somebody to help me with a website. And I just knew when I
talked to this woman, that she was the right person for me. I
didn't know it was the relationship building the
feeling that I was getting, I wasn't getting snowed by I can
do this, this and this, right? So I didn't. So you've worked
with some big companies. In your time, you've worked with brands
like Sony and Disney and Nestle. Do you have an interesting story
from one of those that you can recall that that speaks to this?
Because to the power of relationships and in in
marketing?
Bill Troy: Well, I'll tell you, so one of the things I think
it's all confusing in the world these days is what is marketing
or what is sales, I think a lot of people believe marketing is
sales, and the same thing. But I can tell you an interesting
little sales anecdote that relates to the relationship idea
about how I got to work for someone, okay, we we had a
client that was I owned a market research company for about 25
years. And we had done work for various clients, and a VP at one
of those clients was let go was out of work. And so, you know,
if you're going to work, no one wants to talk to you, because
they don't want to try to pitch me for a job. But I've been out
of work myself, when I was in my 20s, I worked for a company that
got bought by another company, and they had their own people.
So we were all getting checks and one meeting like see you're
out of here. So I've been out of work before. And I'm like, so I
reached out to Bruce, I'm like, Hey, what's going on, you got
some free time. But if you want to connect, let's talk and just
catch up, we had not had a lot of time to talk when he was a
client of ours. And so we actually kind of struck up a
little more of a relationship than we had before. And I I
didn't just call him because he was not at work. And I'd been
there myself, didn't think anything about it. And then he
got a job at Sony. And he called me and said, Hey, I'm going to
start at Sony next week, I want to talk to you about something,
okay. And sure enough, he had an idea that he came to me and
said, Can we do that that day? And I said, Yeah, we can
absolutely do that it turned into the biggest client we ever
had. And it was because I called an unemployed guy. So I'm sure
when your marketing agency comes in, they don't say, you know,
call everybody who's unemployed. But I didn't, I call them
because it was a relationship. But that was the kind of thing
that paid off down the road. So that was the beginning of let's
see some new ways to do things. And if you really sort of look
at what drives your business, what kind of relationships drive
your business. And so we actually turn that just to
finish that anecdote. We turned that into a process in our
company, we started watching the trade press, for people that
work at companies that people we knew who were out of work and we
reached out to him, we built a whole package to help them when
they were out of work. Make some introductions in those days.
This was in the 90s, early 2000s helped them build little
personal webpage like you're talking about LinkedIn, we just
help them at that moment when they needed help without any
expectation. We don't know if they're going to use our
services later but good relationship stuff, right? So
you don't know where you're going to find the right kinds of
relationships to help people with but that's
Janice Porter: a great story because if you come from your
heart hmm, yeah, it pays off is that law of reciprocity too,
because you never know what's going to come back. It could
come from some Where else right?
Bill Troy: So let me let me tell you when Bruce got the job at
Sony, yeah, his phone ringing off the hook that everybody
wants to call him. Right? Well, too late, right. So that's,
that's, yeah, there's
Janice Porter: the moral to the story, right? Yeah, that's
really good. So I had asked in the information I sent you what
your favorite quote was, and you mentioned one from Steve Jobs.
It's not the tools you have faith in tools are just tools,
they work or they don't work. It's people you have faith in or
not. And that really speaks to what we just said. And yeah, and
he never struck me as a people person. Steve was who I love it
then. Exactly, exactly. You knew that? Yes, of course he did. And
when you Okay, so, your business now your CIVILUS consulting
business when your wife run together? I know she's the boss,
though. Right?
Bill Troy: She is. Yeah, I'm the idea guy. Everything.
Janice Porter: So is it now I know, it's been going for many
years now? Is does business come to you? Or are you still seeking
business? And if it comes to you, or when it comes to you? Do
you ever have to turn people wait, because they're not
thinking the way you want them? To think or?
Bill Troy: Yeah, definitely comes to us. And we definitely
have to turn a lot of people away. Because we have very
specific mindset. And right, we're not going to work for
somebody that doesn't have that mindset. I'll give you an
example. Right now, recruiting is really big. I mean, everybody
needs talent. Everybody needs staff. Yeah, no one can find
enough and except our clients, we help them we help them
develop a relationship based recruiting strategy versus a
transaction based recruiting strategy. So somebody who is
spending 1000s of dollars a month on Indeed, and getting so
many clicks and applications that can't keep up with all of
them still aren't filling their positions. That's the kind of
person we're working with. Right now. They're coming to us,
because we've solved it for some other clients like, oh, call the
CIVILUS. Guys, they've got a solution to get out of that debt
trap. But they're some of those companies can't let go of it.
You know, I can't let go of this budget I spend on Indeed,
because then I won't have any clicks. Like, why do you want
clicks, you want clicks, you want people working here who
love working here. And that's a completely different approach
completely different. And some people are afraid to let go of
that the tools, the online tools are so addictive. And nobody
realizes how addictive they are. But if you're involved, you're
participating in almost like a casino. Dashboard, and you're
seeing that? Yeah.
Janice Porter: Did they think they're getting more for their
money? Yes,
Bill Troy: yeah, they've been, they forget what they're trying
to actually get, which is people to work there and stay there.
They think they're now trying to get clicks and views and opens
and likes and all that sort of stuff. Like, wait a minute, that
doesn't lead to anything, you don't want clicks. So we have
some people that just can't let go of that they're too afraid to
go in the direction of relationships, basically. And
it's like, well, we can't work well. So people
Janice Porter: who have spent the money on something like
indeed and so on to do that, and then they come to you do you
take what they have and work from that and start to sift
through or do you go another approach completely?
Bill Troy: We would say take the resources you're putting into it
into a deed and go somewhere else but we wouldn't try to
tweak their indeed campaign necessarily. No,
Janice Porter: no, no, but they've got all these people are
all these. I don't even know how it works. So they get resumes.
Is that how they
Bill Troy: Yeah, they get you know, they get applicants. It's
Janice Porter: yeah, it doesn't matter. Yeah. I just thought I
like it's my hamster wheel. I also have resumes online that
they have to sift through route
Bill Troy: don't fit anybody don't fit anything. It doesn't
constantly the applicant just hits up click apply, apply,
apply play can't filter anyone and then you just dealing with
all these. Yeah, so we would stop and say okay, whoa, whoa,
whoa, stop. Where did your best people come from? Who do you
love that works here? Who do you who would you want to get and
let's build a and so you end up building something that's
completely different rather than some online strategy you might
end up we have a moving company we work with we help them
connect into the local soccer community because it turns out
that soccer players are ideal. Yes, work to work in a moving
company because they're you don't need big and strong
stamina, right? Yes, yeah. And flexibility and because you got
you know, tools to help you lift everything. And so soccer, the
soccer community was the place to find people that love the job
and you could feed back and it and suddenly now we're this is
something more meaningful than just moving furniture, right?
Yeah, that's it. hear there's people watching for a reason
it's connected to what else that then things I love. And so you
know, it's a longer process than what I just explained. But
that's the direction you start going it is what it is if
somebody starts school or the community college or what's the
community, where do your people live? How do you get to know
them? And suddenly, there's no ads need to be run at all,
because everybody on the soccer team saying, Hey, guys, I love
this job, you gotta come work here and more applicants than
you can handle. So that's,
Janice Porter: that's a great example. Actually, I quite like
that. That's very cool.
Bill Troy: And you never know exactly where it's going to be
for each company. But for every company, you can find a way to
connect into some deeper thing with people and get people to
work there. Yeah,
Janice Porter: for sure, for sure. I like that you, you use
the word and I'm just going back to something the volume versus
intimacy. I love that because that's really what it is. It's
about building that relationship. Now, I just want
to take a side to tour for a second. I know we weren't going
to talk about anything other than this piece. But I am a
curious person, which I'm going to talk to you about in a
minute. But my curiosity is about the music part of your
life. Sure. Talk to me about that. Like, are you a musician,
by the way?
Bill Troy: No, I'm not a musician. Okay. Okay. I'm a
writer. Oh, yes. So I do songwriting. So that's a long
life. That's a lifelong process. I was in the radio business for
years and years ago, okay. And then as the market research
company I started was focusing on entertainment media. So we
worked for a lot of entertainment media clients, as
well as consumer clients who grew into that, but we worked
for a lot of record companies and radio stations, television
stations, and so on. And so that's how I got connected into
the music world. And then I, well, I have some creative bone
in my body. So I just start creating stuff. So now, I'm
involved in creating music and publishing some music and trying
to make that annual creative outlet.
Janice Porter: And is that one genre or different genres?
Bill Troy: It's different. So quickly, the music industry
story. If you're going to write music, and not be a performer,
really, country's probably about the only type of music where you
can do that, where you can write songs and other artists will
perform most other types of music, I guess, certainly, if
you're going to write plays, or something like that, or, or
classical type music, other artists would perform, and you
wouldn't actually be the performer. But if you're going
to be a pop star, or you're going to, you know, get into the
world of rap or rock, you're going to write your own
material, performing raw material. But a country is a
format where people artists perform other people's songs and
are looking for other songs. So that's the place where you can
write music, and have other people interested in performing.
And
Janice Porter: those actually with that, with that genre with
country music, they're storytelling all the time,
right, more than any other genre. So that's kind of
interesting. Okay, thank you for sharing that with me. And I
said, curiosity, that's my favorite words. So I'd like to
ask you my two part question, which I love to ask my, my
guests. And the first part is do you think curiosity is innate?
Or learned? And the second part is, what are you most curious
about these days? Wow, I need
Bill Troy: I think it's both I think that
Janice Porter: you want me to read this note that you sent me
and you can talk from that?
Bill Troy: I remind Sure. Yeah. I
Janice Porter: just thought you weren't? You weren't sure. Go
ahead.
Bill Troy: No, I'm, I'm just thinking about them. Before we
get into. I just think that is both. I think that we as a
species, we come with a certain amount of curiosity, but I think
we're sort of our brain is trained and formed in childhood
and a young adulthood about whether curiosity is rewarded.
So I think it's encouraged, you're not when you're growing
up, mine was encouraged to challenge the status quo, right.
So I do that as an adult. I mean, I my parents, you know,
challenge authority, you go back and tell them, you know, and so
that's what I do. So I think you come with a, like an ability for
curiosity, but then I think it's formed in your childhood about
whether you express it and go toward it.
Janice Porter: That's a good answer. I've never heard that
one before. So that makes me want to ask you though, what did
your parents do that, that encouraged that? Contrary, it
can come prairie
Bill Troy: can train them that my parents were both
contrarians, they are just and they taught me in both positive
and negative reinforcement ways, right to basically challenge
authority. Nobody's gonna tell you what to do. You're gonna No
one's gonna do that. And they even when they told me what to
do, my job is was to stand up to them say no, you're not, you
know, and I think they liked that. They liked that. You know,
they felt like they were making a strong man who would be able
to survive in a world and no one. So that was sort of You
know, our household challenged the rules. Yeah. Some of those
parents know when I got in trouble at school. I got in
trouble. You do the crime do the time. But I also got the wink.
So that was a good one. Don't do it again. Yeah. Yeah, that was
our house inside outside
Janice Porter: thing. Yes. Okay, and, and so what are you most
curious about today?
Bill Troy: I'm most curious about what's in my blind spot.
Right. So I don't know if you're familiar with Johari Window. And
people can Google that if they want J O H, a car I window is a
it's a little graphic that was designed by two guys named Joe
and Harris. Very creative name. But it basically divides the
world up into what you what you can see what you can't see. And
then what other people can see and what other people can't see.
It's a four little two by two box. Okay. But I really, as I've
gotten older, come to realize how much of the world in reality
is in that blind area that I can't see. Because I see what I
see, I believe what I believe, you know, like rules must be
challenged. Well, that's not true. It just is what I do.
Right? So what if rules aren't challenged. So this idea of
questioning what's really going on and looking for other
possibilities is what's always fascinating to me. And I think
that's where so much opportunity lies, is to go into areas. And
and I mentioned this when we were emailing back and forth
earlier about in the areas of adversity. So that's I mentioned
the Brian kite thing where he talks about tides consultant,
friend of mine who talks about how humans are not we're not
capable of recognize the difference in adversity and
opportunity. Frequently, what we think is one thing is the other,
you know, this looks great, and then it crashes or this looks
terrible, when it turns out to be great. So what he advocates
is that in order to succeed, you have to go toward adversity,
because you just have to believe that's opportunity, because
you're bad at recognizing it. So just always go toward adversity.
Love that, right? That's kind of what I'm doing is going well,
okay. I don't like this. This feels weird. I need to go toward
it. See what's going on there. So that's, that's what a
curiosity means for me.
Janice Porter: Oh, that's really interesting. Unless I check back
with you and see how that has worked out. Because that takes
courage to write? Yes,
Bill Troy: really does. It takes practice and courage because the
beginning it's scary, you're going toward things that are
scary. And, but then it's like practicing anything else
practicing juggling or practicing piano, if you do it
enough, you go, Oh, I know this, I can do this one I'm good at so
you get good at going toward adversity. And because you keep
realizing now every time I do that, I find some interesting
stuff. So it's, it's something you can practice.
Janice Porter: Yeah, that's really interesting. When I think
about things I've done, though, that I've been very afraid of,
like climbing to the top of a pole and you know, jumping off
into oblivion. I mean, I thought the second time I got the
opportunity to do it, I wouldn't be as scared. But I was. So I
did it. But I was just scared and went through the same
emotions I went through the first time. Like, I can't do
this kind of thing. But I did it anyway, another story for
another day. But, um, so lots of interesting things on the
horizon for you. I know. Because you operate in many different
fields, what would you say is the most important message that
you might want to leave with my listeners today? Around what
we've really been talking about relationships, and yeah,
Bill Troy: I would say that you've got to trust your gut,
it's there for a reason.
And the world right now, and not just now, but the world
increasingly will continue to try to take you away from your
gut. And that whether we're talking about cliques and
technology tools that are trying to convince you to, you know,
manipulate people in line or whatever, or whether it's, you
know, who knows what it is? And I think that, you've got to go
back to that really know what that is it for example,
relationships, do you have a good clear definition of what a
relationship is? I think a lot of people use the word but they
don't really well. I don't know, what is, Do I have a clear? Do I
know if I have one with someone? Right? And we do in CIVILUS, we
actually do that with people. I mean, when for example, you can
measure the relationship with someone, when you send them a
note of any type, any kind of email, telephone message,
whatever, a few get one back. That's the first indication you
have relationship. And B, if you have a really good relationship,
they put as much or more energy into their response than you
did. Right. My best friend when I send him a note, I get a
paragraph back, you get what? I get a paragraph backwards and in
one sentence, right? And so you can say, Oh, I have a
relationship with him where he feels good about spending time
with me. and investing in me, it's not I'm trying. So you can
actually start to realize and measure whether you have
relationships, you can define it. And then you're gonna find
that that is something that comes from your heart from your
gut. And you know if it's right or not, and you got to stick to
it, there's no reason and this is a lot of what we spend time
with on CIVILUS. with clients, there's no reason you have to
sacrifice your values to succeed. And in fact, our theory
is that if you go toward your values, and go toward that, what
feels like adversity scary, going toward my own values feels
scary. But that's the case for a lot of people I'm going to lose
my business from and you'll find you can be more successful,
you're gonna be more authentic, you're going to come up with new
solutions. And that's what you need to do is go toward your gut
and not listen to other people.
Janice Porter: Amen. I mean, that's right. That's so true.
And I think that's a great place to stop because I could go here,
there and everywhere with you. I love that though. You know that
it feels scary. But you have to stick to your guns, because in
the end, you won't love yourself at all. If you don't, if you
don't, right, it just wouldn't feel right. Well,
Bill Troy: and, you know, I'll tell you, anecdotally, from we
talked about the music industry a little bit ago. When you begin
in something like music industry, or whatever business
you're in, you think you're there to satisfy other people,
and the more other people love you and more applause and sales
you get that's love. And what you'll find in the long run is
that it's not right. You know, the most successful music, music
art in the world, artists in the world end up sort of crashing
out going well, that's just plastic and fake. And I want to
get back to truth and react and real. And so it can be the same
as as a business owner, you start off well, this is where we
need to go as we need to grow and you get revenue bla bla bla
bla, and you can get you can take yourself away from what you
are all about. And then you're just you build something that
isn't you you hate, I don't want you to can't. So you've got to
stick to your gut, you've got to stick to what's what your true
values are, and, and then insert that into your company, and
it'll work. That's
Janice Porter: awesome. Thank you for all that great advice.
Yes. And I'm sure that the people that listen to my show
will appreciate hearing some of those things and it's a lot of
food for thought for some people. So you know, very well
taken and Bill. I will put in the show notes, but where can
people find your book or find you if they are? Right
Bill Troy: so the company is Seville this consultancy IDI LIS
consulting.com, and I'm billing sales consulting, and the book
is quicksand CLI CK sa nd and that's available on Amazon if
they want to read it. It's interesting historical reading.
And one of the things I do in the book is talk about how this
quicksand in we're in now is not new. I talked about that Mark
Montgomery Ward catalog it's 100 year process that we're involved
with. So it's not something new. You're not out of touch every
century.
Janice Porter: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for your
time. Thank you for your your wisdom and thank you to my
audience for listening again and appreciate you if you like what
you heard, please leave a review and remember to stay connected
and be remembered