The principle of mining, which is pure dollar cost average, pure

passive. You don't have to worry about it. You're just accumulating Bitcoin in

Yes. So you've bought your miner, you've shipped it to the hosting facility. You've

got two decisions from there. You can either be a solo miner or you can

mine in a mining pool. Can you buy these Bitcoin mining machines in an SMSF

fund? Because the Bitcoin miners are in our hosting facility overseas,

you're not doing anything with it. It's a passive investment. Therefore, you

can do it on your self-managed super fund. Why should people be Bitcoin mining?

Fraser and this is Crypto Collective. After making millions

with Amazon and e-commerce, I realized that if I

was starting again today, crypto would be my first choice.

I'm here to help you take your first steps and build real

wealth. Ready to set yourself up for life? Let's go.

Hey, well, welcome to Crypto Collective. Great to have you here. You are

the founder of The Mining Store, which is, I would say, the premier Bitcoin

crypto mining store in Australia. All right. Thank you

Yeah, I'm bloody well. I'm up on the Gold Coast. It's always nice weather up here.

And yeah, we're the founders of Mining Store, only really

retail provider now. A lot of the other ones have gone under. So

Yeah, awesome. Well, for everyone listening, I want to get right into

Bitcoin mining itself, because this is, I think, something that people probably

don't know much about. I want to say from the outset to frame

this that I'm actually a customer of yours. I've been mining Bitcoin

myself. through your store. It's been absolutely incredible. It's

probably coming up to about a year now. I've got about a stack of about $20,000 worth

of Bitcoin that's AUD, and it's been sensational. It's just something that I

really want to expose to people because what I'm going to do, guys, at

the very end of this episode, I'm going to drop in one of the

key reasons why people should be doing Bitcoin mining. One,

because Obviously, it's sovereign, but I'm going to explain why

they should be doing it. I'm going to save that to the very, very end, Will. I like it. Now tell

us, from the outset, Will, why should people be Bitcoin

Yeah, it's a good question. So I think the question that

always gets thrown out there is, should I buy Bitcoin or should I

And from the get go, do both. You know, you don't have to buy

only miners and then just sit on them passively accumulating. You don't have

to only buy Bitcoin. But the main reason I would encourage

people to mine is it's passive. You get a pure dollar

cost average strategy every single day you're mining Bitcoin. And

probably the example that I would use and I told you recently we had a

big client four and a half million dollars worth of miners just purchased. Incredible.

So someone in his position looks at the market and they go do I want

to dump four and a half million dollars into Bitcoin today at this

price at all time highs. You know what if Iran-Israel conflict

comes again what if You know, the market starts going into a

bear market and we've all got it wrong. So that's a sickening feeling when

your initial investment at one level is dropping, dropping, dropping, and

For him, massive tax benefits, putting that money into Bitcoin

mining instead of putting straight into Bitcoin. And also he's

mining at every single price, every single day for the next four years. So

it dollar cost averages you out and puts you in the market long term,

Okay. There's so much to unpack just in that. So first of all, for

those who are just absolutely brand new to this and it's like, what is Bitcoin mining? Like

Yeah. So, um, essentially what you're doing and

the best example I can use, I like to put things in the traditional world example,

right? A Bitcoin miner is in simple terms, doing what

a bank teller does at a bank. Okay. So when you go to a

bank and you give them a thousand dollars to transfer to mom and dad, they

process the transaction for you. money lands in mom and dad's account and

that bank teller gets paid a wage for doing that. Okay. When

you come to Bitcoin miners, that's exactly what they're doing. They're processing all

the transactions on the network, creating the next block to

verify where everyone's money is and getting paid a wage or a

mining reward for doing that. So it's processing everything if

So that's actually where Bitcoin originates from I think

some people just think you go to an exchange You'd

like coin stash. For example, you you buy you

just buy the Bitcoin as this appears there Yeah, that's not the case. Is it this and

I think this is why they caught the hardest money, right? They can't just print it

like you can with fiat currency spot on so In

a bit more detail than Will, how is that then beneficial for

Look, virgin Bitcoin is a big thing, right? This

Bitcoin that you're getting is coming from the Bitcoin treasury. So

when Bitcoin first came out in 2008, 2009, the first block was mined. There

was all the Bitcoin, all 21 million Bitcoin was sitting in

a treasury. Every 10 minutes, a block reward is

rewarded to miners. And that comes from treasury as virgin

Bitcoin. So when you're a miner, you're getting

that virgin Bitcoin. No one else has ever touched it. It hasn't been in transactions anywhere

else. So that's a main benefit to it. Is that what you're

Yeah. Yeah. Other benefits, obviously what I unpacked at the start, probably

a fair bit of things, but you know, the passive side of it, you don't have to worry

about it. Yeah. Often I get, you know, people who work

their whole lives and now they're coming into retirement and they

don't really know what this crypto thing is, but they're like, probably should have some, probably

Oh, mate, by a mile. Like, I always ask people

that, like, you know, give me a better thing to buy and I'll do it. But at the

moment, I'm buying Bitcoin. Yeah. But back to it, these people, they don't

really feel comfortable just yet setting up exchanges, setting up wallets. But

when they're setting up a machine that's just passively, you

know, depositing money into their exchange or

their wallet. They just feel a bit more comfortable with it. They don't have to get

the paralysis by analysis, looking at the charts. Is it

a good day to buy? Should I be selling some because it's at all time highs? Yeah.

It's just passive in the background. And they know they're getting exposure to

Touch on this a bit more, Will, because you mentioned before about people putting money

either into Bitcoin at a lump sum. Let's just use the number of

probably what maybe most people might have particularly in this

day and age, maybe let's say $10,000. Should I put $10,000 straight

into Bitcoin as a one-time payment, let's say, or

a one-time investment, or put $10,000 into the Bitcoin mining knowing

that it's going to be DCA. So just explain those two strategies again.

Yeah, for sure. So when you're talking about $10,000, you

know, sometimes I would actually recommend someone just to go and buy Bitcoin,

right? Because with one miner, you know, are you getting enough? Like it can absolutely

work for you. But when you start getting to $20,000, $30,000, $50,000, $100,000 in the market, you can get 10 miners

and you know, it's compounding out. That's

usually a better strategy. But let's keep it simple at $10,000. So

you're putting $10,000 into a Bitcoin miner. You know, you're

getting a pure dollar cost average strategy. So whether Bitcoin

goes down in price, whether it goes up in price, you don't have

to worry about, you know, I'm losing my investment. If

They're freaking the F out. They're going, shit, like,

what have I done? I've got into this at the wrong time. They're selling. Someone that

gets into the Bitcoin mining, they've got a machine there. They're

locked in for the four years. They're going to pick up Bitcoin at

120, at 110, at 100, all the way down to 60. And then

they're going to accumulate that over the four to five year lifetime of

the miner. And then they're locked in, right? Now, when

it comes back, They've accumulated it and they haven't sold out. Yeah.

And the key point there is that they've actually accumulated on the

way down, right? So they're getting it cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. And

then essentially through the bear, right? The absolute bottom

of the bear, which could be, you know, last cycle we saw Bitcoin at

about $16,000 USD, right? I was accumulating at

I'm sure you were as well. Was the average punter? No. No.

So like, you don't have that conviction in the bear market. You've

got the mainstream media saying it's all a scam. You're

saying everyone's, oh, you know, it was a fad, whatever. Like even

our clients, some of our good clients were worried at that time, but

without support and giving them that conviction, some people did buy

or buy more miners down there. Yeah. But that's what, that's

the, that's the icing for someone who's brand new. When

we first started mining store, I came from a foreign exchange trading

background. So I was also buying and I was doing old coins

and things like that. But I was actually hell bent on not letting

new people get into buying Bitcoin and altcoins. I

would actually, not force them, but I would highly recommend they

start with the mining. And because too many people get burnt

by entering in the market at the wrong time, not understanding the

four year cycle. not understanding that results come over

time. Yeah. And Bitcoin mining is a great way

I think it's a really good point. Actually, something I actually never considered is actually taking the emotion

out of it then by having that decent strategy. Now, people listening to

this probably thinking, yeah, but I'd buy when it was cheap. You

know, that'd be me. Yeah. And then I'd sell when it got to the top. Yeah.

Or when it got to the top, I wouldn't buy then. But of course- Shoulda,

coulda, woulda. Well, the statistics show that that's complete opposite.

I had a conversation with someone once, and it was actually a family member.

I said, Now is the time to buy. You should be piling

in now. And it was 16,000, 20,000. The exact response

verbatim was, I'm not going to buy now. I'm going

to wait for it to go up. Spot on. And I was like,

what? Always. Say that again. And so what they're actually saying is, no,

I don't want to buy when it's cheap. I'm going to wait for it to be more expensive.

Now, when you say allow back to them, then they're like, oh, yeah. No,

you're right. But so back to what you're saying, then this whole, the DCA

strategy kind of removes all of that. They're going to be just actually accumulating Bitcoin

And so it actually averages out. On that point, think about the

past year. So in the past year, we've seen Bitcoin's price below

$100,000, right? And people, as it was going up from

the lows of what you said, $16,000 to $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, $80,000, $90,000. When

you're new to Bitcoin and you're looking at the market go up like that, what are

you doing? You're waiting for the crash to get in, right? You're waiting

for the crash. And if that never comes, you're just sitting on the sidelines the

whole time. And that whole paralysis by analysis, that

anxiety, would you not be better off of just getting a Bitcoin miner?

And then if it goes up or down, you're accumulating at either price. Yeah, it's out of

your hands. It's out of your hands. So yeah, particularly for those older

people, you know, phones, technology, it's harder to get

around and really feel confident with, take that decision making

out of the way, are you going to be disappointed in 45 years

times with how much Bitcoin you've accumulated? No. No one can actually

ever say to me, yes. So let the machines

I had a friend of mine who, just on that note, and this would be just interesting

for people to hear the psychology behind it all. He was, we

were in it together talking about it every day. It was 16,000 lows,

you know, it's all coming all the way down. I was buying all the way down, got to 16,000. I was like,

dude, you need to be buying now too. And he, because the

sentiment in the marketplace was, well, it could get down to

10. Yeah. Right. And so he was always waiting. Yeah, even at

16, in hindsight, you're like, oh, you're an idiot. You should have bought everything you possibly could at 16. But he

was waiting. Then it went up to like 20, waiting. Got to

30, and he said, no, I could get back to 25. And eventually, he

had to suck it up and buy. And I think he bought in about 60 grand,

Spot on. And, you know, I've been in this market for 10 years

and at that time I remember exactly where I was. I was

in Miami at the time and I remember saying to my business partner, Kyle, we

had like about a hundred grand sitting on the side in cash we'd sold out in the other bull run and

it was at 17,000. I was like, let's put it in here. Like this is our last dollar

cost average and we didn't, you know, and I was like, This

is a perfect example of at the same time we had Bitcoin miners in

the background just accumulating at $0.16. You know, they're doing it.

They don't have the emotions that humans have. So, you know,

That is so perfect. And I think that this whole DCA strategy is

so important. Now, let's just say people sitting there go, OK, great, well. Now,

Always speak to an expert. So I don't mind, go and do

your, you'll find mining store. Like if you type in buy Bitcoin miner Australia,

you're going to find mining store. So you'll end up finding us. Yes. Do

your research, you know, have a look around and ultimately speak

to an expert. You know, you're going to spend so much time. The internet is

great, but you get different opinions. You don't

end up with the right answer at the end of the day. So first step I would say is

Book in a consultation with us or someone else out there. I honestly don't mind. But

book in a call with someone who knows what they're talking about. Understand what

the investment is. It's a longer term investment. It's a one, it's

not a one year investment. It's a three, four, five year investment. And

once you understand it and you're comfortable with it, start small. Buy

one minor. Yeah. let it go online, see the Bitcoin land

into your wallet. Okay, now I get this concept, you're going to start getting

the lightbulb moments, there's things that you've learned, which will come at the end of the episode. You

know, there's so many benefits to attacks, all these things that

come later. And usually that's where people go, I'm

all in, like, you know, they set up self managed super fund, they want

to have 10 miners, they want to accumulate, and they can enjoy their

Yeah, that's right. I mean, just so that the guys know, That was exactly what

I... Actually, I started with three miners. That was my first investment. Three miners. Yeah,

let's just see how this goes. And quickly, I accumulated a bit more. I'm now sitting at

10 miners. And I'll be joining... I'll be adding more miners as we go into

So... How much then, I guess people can say, well, how much is

So it depends on where you're up to in the market. Of course, when

Bitcoin's price is higher, the rewards that time tend to

be higher as well. So the price of miners go up. At the

moment, it's around $8,000 to $9,000 for a miner. So that's your entry. So

again, it's not for your person who's only got $5,000 saved up and you

know, they want to start getting into crypto, go into just buying Bitcoin if

that's where you're at. For your person that's setting it up on a

self-managed super fund and that Anxiety can be higher

with that when you actually start taking control of something that was managed by other

people Yeah, you know you shit. Did I buy in the right time? Am I

selling out? You know, you you don't want to be doing that. So it's perfect for

Let me just jump in on that because in my community the crypto collective we

focus on mainly people who want to move their superannuation over to

Bitcoin and Now, one of the strategies that they could also do

is allocate maybe some to Bitcoin. Let's say they've got 300 grand.

They put 150 grand to just flat out Bitcoin as

a lump sum payment. And then they might then allocate another 150 grand

to Bitcoin mining. They split it, right? And that

would be awesome. And I guess that comes up a lot, too, is actually, can you buy

You can. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I probably explain

the setup that we have. So with mining store, you buy

the minor from us, you own the minor. We have it shipped to

one of our facilities overseas. They're overseas because power is substantially cheaper.

We're talking about Australia and the downfalls. Power is one of the downfalls, 30 to

40 cents per kilowatt hour. Ridiculous. We're getting like 12 to 13 cents. So

because the Bitcoin miners are in our hosting facility overseas,

you're not doing anything with it. It's a passive investment. Therefore,

you can do it on your self-managed Superfund. You know, you can't do investments that

you're managing. You can't have a miner at home and manage it yourself on the self-managed

And that's interesting because when I first started looking into this, my

first thought, because I had a commercial property, I thought, you know what, I'm going to just put this, I'm

And I'm not living there. So it doesn't matter about the noise or what

have you. And then I spoke to one of your guys,

Taylor, at the mining store. And he was like, look, you could do

that. However, you've got to consider electricity. And I was like, oh,

yeah, electricity. But then even when you think, Oh,

okay. I'm going to say that solar panels, that's another 20,000 plus dollar

investment. Right. You know what I mean? And so once I did the numbers, like how, this

I don't know how many people do it in Australia successfully. A

few of our clients, usually they have like some hydro electricity

set up on their own property or something like that. You know, then we've set up a container to

take advantage of it. Very unique. And. There's also management, infrastructure

costs, all the shit that we have to deal with for our clients.

So it is passive for you guys. There's the downside of that as

Right. And most people will probably say, they're busy too. They don't want to

be sitting there like connecting the cables and all that, that doesn't work. And how

did this connect to that? Right. I'm like, nah, I don't do any of that. So

the great solution that Taylor then gave me was that I can actually go into a

mining pool. So can you explain what a mining pool

Yeah, sweet. So you've bought your miner. We've shipped it

to the hosting facility. You've got two decisions from there. You can either

be a solo miner or you can mine in a mining pool. Okay.

Now a solo miner, you'd be like trying to win the lottery. You know, every

block reward at the moment, it's like 3.125 Bitcoin. So

if you hit it, you've just made $360,000 odd, you know what

I mean? Like US. So great. But unlikely it's going

to happen. The more investment decision is to

join a mining pool. Okay. Which is what you're doing. When you

join a mining pool, your miner, you know, $200 tarot hashes

is contributing to a pool with thousands of

other people putting their hash rate in there. Okay. Now, when you say hash

rate, you just mean power. Output. How much

it can mine. How much it can mine. Exactly right. working ability, you

know, whatever you want. Yeah, because TerraHash and everyone just went whoop. Yeah, true. The

benefit or the downfall of being in it for 10 years, you just forget. But

yeah, so you've got the mining pool. Again, I like to use real world

examples. Imagine you're at like a football convention

or whatever it is, a fundraiser, and they're giving out raffle

tickets, and they're going to draw the raffle ticket. And last minute, you say to

everyone on the table, let's put all our tickets in together, because then we've got

a better chance of winning it. Now, Obviously, when you win it, you've

got to split it with everyone. But your probability of reward goes

up substantially. And that's how we do Bitcoin mining. So we

put it into a pool. That way, you can calculate pretty accurately what

I find the whole thing fascinating because I am actually in the pool. And just

so people know, I've got five mining machines in Norway and

five mining machines which I've recently purchased in Ethiopia. Yes,

correct. Now, however it happens, I don't know,

but every day there's Bitcoin being deposited into my wallet.

Yeah. So, um, basically there's probably

five, six major pools out there. So like Binance have one

Luxor, which is the pool you're in. There's F2 pool, which is like a

Chinese pool. So they're like the main pools and

all the miners around the world, whether you're a home miner. or you're

in a big facility, you can choose which one you contribute

your hash to, right? And so if one of the, let's just keep it

simple. If there's only two pools in the world and they have 50% hash rate each, then

they're going to win 50% of the block rewards each and then distribute

that to everyone that's in there. So that's how you get your reward when

like Luxor will win a percentage of the blocks every

day, and then they'll distribute all of that Bitcoin into

So Will, tell me, why would anyone then just go and set up

their own, like what I was initially thinking, just buying a few mining

There's a few reasons. So I would say from an investment point

of view, you're a high risk, high reward person and you're waiting for

Why does someone, why does someone buy TATS lotto? Right. I mean like the chances of winning, but

if they do the thrill that they get, right. Me and Cal have a couple of solo miners

every time. Just for the fun of it. Every time a solo blocks here, we're like, was

it us? Oh damn, wasn't us. But you know,

You looked over at the Lamborghini, the picture on your wall. Is it

spot on. So, you know, there's a thrill with it. The other side

is people like contributing to the network, you know, it's like huge money,

you know, that you can be you feel like you're a part of it, you're contributing to

And that was part of the reason I think initially, I was like, you know, I just love Bitcoin. And

I just wanted to continue my Bitcoin, um, journey.

Yeah. By taking more things. And I thought, Oh, Bitcoin mining could be one of them. I'll put them

in the shed. But then once I started doing the numbers, then I realized actually there's

this whole other system over here, mining in a pool, which

is completely hands off passive. And I just watched this

And you know, and like the dashboards that you get on there, you can see all your miners

online, you can see what your hashrate is, you can see your estimated returns. Like

you get a nice feel, you know, whereas when you're doing, like if

you scale it back to hosting the mining yourself and then it goes down, you've

got to go reconnect to the network, then you sold it. You know, it's a

So tell us then another question that would pop up all the time is,

okay, well, What is the return on my investment? Which I

kind of, I don't know, I just kind of hate that question to be honest because

to me it's a long-term investment, not what is it today or

Yeah, so we'll break that question down. The first thing I

want to say is what's your return on investment of buying Bitcoin? Well, I don't know. Like,

it depends where Bitcoin's price goes, you know. You're not buying Bitcoin today

and then I'm like, I'm going to sell it in a month, my return on investment is going to be 10% or

you don't know. So it's more about understanding the

principle of mining, which is pure dollar cost average,

pure passive. You don't have to worry about it. You're just accumulating Bitcoin

in the background. The first goal is paying off So

you have $9,000 you've put into a miner and

then you've got $3,600 a year in power bills.

Okay. So 12,000 in your first year, but every year after that's $3,000 in

expense just to keep it running. Okay. You're getting about 40% of a

Bitcoin per year. So it really depends

when you sell that miner Bitcoin. The simplest way

that we instruct our clients is buy the miners today. Let

them run for 1, 2, 3, 4 years. When we're in the

next bull market and Bitcoin's at, I don't know, what do you think it's going

Of course. Okay. If it gets to a million dollars, then that 40% that

you're mining is 400k a year. Right. So

it depends when you're selling it. And then when you sell that, you

might've bought one machine. Yeah. But when you sold it, if

that's 400 K, you might be able to then like minus tend to stay at the same

price. You then might be able to go buy 10, 20 machines in

the next cycle from that. You know what I mean? So that's the way to

look at it. It's not about what's my return investment. What am I earning

on a daily? You're not selling the Bitcoin today. And same as you're not buying Bitcoin

today and then selling it tomorrow. Right. You're buying these machines, letting

a pure dollar cost average strategy, taking away paralysis

from analysis, taking away the anxiety, letting it work in

the background, tax benefits of buying the miners, instant

asset write-off, whatever you want to do. The list goes on. There's so many

benefits to it. And I think where the penny drops is when

you get your first miner. Honestly, you can't. Just you

were probably the same. You probably, I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty keen on it, but like,

it's not until you get them going and then you're like, okay, now I get

Cause you just start figuring out the systems. Right. And then it's things

like you mentioned before about, Oh, actually now I can, I could write this in,

um, the minor off under maybe an instant asset write off

or depreciate it, or I've got the power. bill. Oh,

I can actually write off the power as well. Yeah. So I'm now lowering my

Because this is all going towards investment. Yeah. Which of course, anything

that you pay for investments is tax deductible. Spot on. Right. So

can you, if you're going to put these things in your SMSF, and

I know this is not tax advice for anyone, but just maybe from your experience, let's

say, and everyone should speak to their accountant about this. Can

you pay for the ongoing power? So you pay for the mining machine

out of your super, let's say, you've put it into SMSF. What

about the ongoing power? Can that also be paid from super if

they want? Yeah, absolutely. Hey guys, real quick. If you've been wanting to earn passive

Bitcoin but don't want to deal with banking regulations or technical setups,

check out Mining Store. They help you buy and host ASIC miners in

pro-grade facilities with no technical capabilities or infrastructure

costs on your end. Just passive Bitcoin sent straight to

your wallet. Use the link in the show notes to learn more. Now back to

And a really cool way to look at this, I actually explained this to my

old man. He's an accountant by trade. He's the

most conservative. So when he agrees with something, I'm like, this is a good idea.

So I explained to him the other day, think about this as a

setup. 10 Bitcoin miners on your self-managed super fund. Around

90k investment for the miners alone. And then the

power bills are $3,600 per miner a year. So around $36,000 for the year. How

much can you contribute to your super year and only have to

pay 15% tax? $30,000. So someone

who hasn't set up a self-managed super fund before can go and set up a self-managed

super fund, buy the Bitcoin miners in it and then contribute

$30,000 a year and only get paid 15% tax and that covers

the power bill. So in the back of their mind, what they're doing is

they're getting a great tax benefit, they're contributing to

the, they know that their super fund is accumulating Bitcoin every

single day until they retire. And then this is

like I don't want to say this too much online because I'm not a tax advisor

or whatever but our self-managed super fund advisor and you

know this might change by the time you actually do it but when you roll over from your

self-managed super fund to a pension you can sell those assets capital

sell it capital gains tax free into the pension fund. So

hang on a sec, but this might, for someone like me, that's, you know, 20 odd

years, right? So who knows what the government's going to do by then.

Let's just get out of here. No, like, so, you know, particularly,

that is exactly what you said there. That could change by the time we get there. So

This is not financial advice, not tax advice. Do go to your own account.

In any case, but this is just what a lot of our clients doing. And, but

for someone who is 65 years off being

able to do that, a Bitcoin mining machine last four or

Yeah. So is there an age where you think it's not worthwhile

to actually do a DCA? Is it someone who's like in their seventies, for

example, or, or do you have any ideas around that?

It's almost a philosophical question. Cause like when you're 70, like. Do

Some people like the idea of passive income. But I don't

know if I would use Bitcoin specifically, Bitcoin mining, as

passive income. I would use it maybe as passive Bitcoin

accumulation over a long term, but not like we

Yeah. Look, I won't dive into like what age you should be

to do it. I don't think I think just look at it as more of a

great way to accumulate Bitcoin. And if that fits your financial

goals in a four or five year period or a 10 year period, then

it absolutely makes sense. But if you're looking for returns next year,

like I need to cash out because, you know, I'm moving upstairs, I'm

buying a house or whatever it is. This is not for you. You know, this is someone who's a

long-term thinker, very busy, you

know, wants to purely dollar cost average, wants exposure to Bitcoin. That's

Yeah, and it's funny because every time I talk to you, I just think, oh God,

I got to get more Bitcoin mining machines. I seriously do. Because,

I mean, every time, you know, when I hear it from somebody else, like

I've got my own ideas about it. But when I hear it from you again, I'm like, Yeah,

he's right. I need to get more Bitcoin mining machines. So let's just say people

have got Bitcoin mining machines. They start off with one to three, let's say. What

is the next phase after that? Is it using the

profits then to buy Bitcoin mining machines? Like once, let's

This is where we get in the exciting part of it. Whenever I

talk to someone about Bitcoin mining, it's always like, start off with one, see

it, get comfortable with it. But the way that I'm running my operation,

Tell us the secrets, Will, as in like, once we get the secret sauce. Well,

tell us first of all, how many Bitcoin mining machines do you personally have with your company

Thousands of machines. So

our company... Are you going to be the next Michael Saylor though?

I'm just a chill guy in the background. I think you are. Obviously,

you're the younger version with no grey hair. Yeah. We've been mining Bitcoin

since 2013. Yeah, because your company's been operating for like over a decade, right?

Yeah. This is insane. Yeah. We've been quiet in the background. I mean,

if you Google us, you'll find us straight away, but... This is not just an operation that

You guys have been cemented in this industry for like a decade, which

Yeah, that's it. We're hosting about $60 million

worth of Bitcoin miners for our clients now. Wow. That's

a lot. What was your question? What

So I know where I'm headed. Honestly, so when you first start, you're trying

to get to 10 miners, which is where you're at. So you get the first one,

you're like, yeah, I love this. You get to 10, you're like, wow, this is cool.

I can see this working over a three, four year period. Then you

get to some decision making and you either have the decision to

just leave that, like put a ring fence around that.

That's my Bitcoin mining investment. I'm happy with it. I'm just going to wait for four years.

And then when we're in the next bull market or when Bitcoin hits, whatever it is in my head,

400, 500k. I'll sell out that Bitcoin and then I'll

go again then. Yeah. So that's strategy one. Strategy two, you

depending on what Bitcoin's price does. Yeah. So if Bitcoin's price

doubles and in a year and you've got 40% of a Bitcoin, you

could sell out or take a loan against that Bitcoin.

So now you're not selling out your exposure, which you want going

on going forward. You could take a loan against it using DeFi or

For those listening, you can actually borrow against Bitcoin today from companies

Yeah. Yeah. There you go. So that's a cool strategy as well. Like if you get to

a point, you're like, wow, I've been mining for a year. I've got 40% of

a Bitcoin off my one miner. off my 10 minus, sorry.

Now I can take, I don't want to sell that Bitcoin, but I could take a

loan against it and buy more machines, right? So now you

go and buy more machines and you're compounding your return on investment,

but still keeping your exposure to Bitcoin. So these are the more advanced

things that We don't talk, this isn't on your first call with us,

like, hey, this is what the plan is, you know, you're going to do this, it's like,

relax. But for people that they get those lightbulb moments,

and we're very good at taking people on this journey, you know, we

understand where you're at at the start. But as you advance, and

you're getting more serious, and you got more capital, it's now 100,000, half a million

dollars, a million dollars. Now you can get into these strategies.

So compounding is another thing people do in their first year. You

know, they sell it out, then they rebuy more machines, compound the investment.

Like we can use the Bitcoin that we mine and put it in pools to

Which is now chump change, really, compared to what Bitcoin's even doing.

Spot on, you know, better than nothing though. You know, $100,000, that's

five grand extra a year, pays for a portion of your power bills type

of thing. So there's plenty of extra strategy that you can go on.

And so is your strategy also partly pulling

out the Bitcoin and I mean, like keeping

Or just are you actually borrowing against the Bitcoin to buy more

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the, what I would say when you get to our

level, it really just comes at a point, like if you need a warehouse, yeah.

Like if there, if there's good deals, like a client of

our buyers, four and a half million dollars of miners, and we can pull that and get a

lower cross on power. I might take a loan out on some Bitcoin and

get on top of that because I'm like sick, I can get the hardware cheaper, you

know, or like there's a new model that comes out

and it's like, oh yeah, this is great value for money that

I might sell. So there's those strategy decisions. You've really got

to get into it first, get set up, get the base. Then

when you've got the base, now you can move into those more advanced

things or just leave it like just chill. Okay. It's not like

I'm in this 24 seven. Some of our clients have retired. They're literally

doing this and following our other services. Like they're not working anymore. This

is like their whole gig. So I don't mind getting into heavier strategy,

but you've got to advance to that level and you've got to have enough in there to make it worthwhile

Yeah, and I'm going to interrupt that bit there and just drop this

in. For anyone who's watching this thinking they're interested in Bitcoin mining,

we're going to leave a link in the description. They can go and book a free call with

Will and his team, and they can explain all the different ins and outs of Bitcoin

mining and what might be suitable for you, including maybe putting it in your SMSF

as well. So Will, that all sounds awesome,

right? But tell us, this is not a get-rich-quick scheme,

right? It's not, no. What would be the risks that people should think

Good question. So there's risks with everything. There's risks with when

you buy Bitcoin, there's probably custody risks, like you need

to make sure you're holding that safe or you're trusting an exchange or

whatever it is. Okay. So ultimately, you're mining Bitcoin, there

is going to be once you take that Bitcoin, there's custody risk. So

Yeah, so why don't you just explain that. So you've got your Bitcoin that's coming

out from your mining machines. Now what you're talking about is where you're going to store that

Bitcoin. And that then could become a risk because if you keep it

Yeah, spot on. There's probably like stages of custody. One, it sits in

your mining pool. That automatically pays out. So that's fine. But

then where are you sending it to? You're sending it to an exchange or a wallet. So custody risk

is one. Um, there is obviously, um,

you know, risk of it's a hash rate you're exposed to.

Um, now it's a much, when you say, sorry, when you say competing, what do you mean by

Yeah. So let's cover into that. So hash rate, what's the total hash

rate out there? At the end of the day, you're in a mining pool, right? And

your miners are competing to solve the next block. Okay.

But because you're in that pool, you kind of know how many blocks you're going to get a day. But

say, um, back when we first started, like the advancements in

machines was a lot faster. So there was a risk that

like a grand new, um, Terra hash miner comes

out and it's doing double what you're doing. And now you're left behind and

now you're left behind. Today, not so much of a risk. Like we're at

a 200 terahash miner, you know, you know, maybe next year,

there might be a little bit better, but it's not like going to be double, you know, like the

Let me just ask you on that part, because people say, you know, quantum computing could

be a risk to Bitcoin. But could quantum computing be

I think the cost of a quantum computer is so high. I don't

think they're going to mine Bitcoin. Okay. You know, like, like people don't actually understand.

I don't understand. Oh, like I barely do, but I've looked into it

and it's like, you're talking billions of dollars to run

this machine. I think it's going to be doing other things than mining Bitcoin. So

you could say potentially, but remember that

Bitcoin miners, the technology is different today.

They're ASIC machines. So they're specifically built to

mine Bitcoin. Right. unlike the olden days when me

and Cal were doing it in 2013 and I had my desktop computer that

I played games on and then at night it was mining Bitcoin. Gone

are the days. I don't know if you do edits but maybe I can show a

photo of us when we were building it. I still have photos from 2013. Send us the

photos, we'll throw them in. So yeah, that's

the shift in technology. I think we've gotten to the point now where

it's not a massive risk. You know, like when we were doing it and we're putting these

GPUs like, is like an ASIC miner going to come out next week that's doubly, it's

not even worth it. That was the rat race, I suppose, but it's

So just another thing then, what about a risk then

to, you know, I've got these mining machines in Norway and

Ethiopia. Could a terrorist attack or could a,

I don't know, could Ethiopia get stormed by something?

I don't know, elephants trampled the place down. I'm just making this up. I have no

Yeah, no, great. Like that was my third one. That's the, you've

got custody risk of your Bitcoin, but also you got to trust that we're hosting

these and they're in a safe place and they're not going to get stolen or like

they're not going to have a natural disaster occur to them. We've had like

very minimal instances of miners being

So Will, I've got Bitcoin miners in Ethiopia and

Yeah, good question. So that's like probably the third risk,

you know, that you've got here is the custody risk of the miners themselves. We've

obviously, like yourself, you've got miners in Norway, you've got them in Ethiopia, the

client of ours that's bought four and a half million dollars of miners, we've spread him out.

Okay. So that's how you mitigate the risk. Yeah, spot on. You know, you

don't put all your eggs in one basket. The facilities

that we have, have like you wouldn't want to step a foot in there. Like security, you're

probably going to get shot. You know what I mean? Um, you, we don't disclose, you

know, you don't know the location of the facility. There's thousands

and thousands of my likes, like I think the biggest facility, and these are not

all our miners, but there's like 40,000 to 50,000 miners in that

facility. So there's a lot of work that goes

into keeping this secure. There's years of planning of

where we're going, making sure governments are happy with it. Again,

we take care of all that for our clients. It's not even thought about for them.

But yeah, to answer your question, that is a risk, but we do everything we can

Yeah, I think that's really important. And just behind the scenes, that's one of the reasons

why I went into Ethiopia, I had my five in Norway,

and then I said to Taylor, actually part of the strategy when I sat down

with him, I said, look, what's the next mitigation risk? Oh,

we can put these over in Ethiopia. I was like, brilliant. And I guess that's part of your

And it's seamless for you, right? Like, it's not like, oh, now I've got to manage, it's not like,

If you've got like to do anything, you don't do anything, you know what I mean? Like you wouldn't even

know, but these are the conversations we have with our clients. You

know, what, what is a lot of money for you? If it's $20,000, all

right, then only have three machines there and then have three there. And then,

you know, God forbid, if something happened, you don't lose it all. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Um, for the four and a half million, what's a lot of money for you? If I lost 200 K, I

The Bitcoin mine machines, though, I know they come with a 12-month warranty anyway

on what parts and labor, I presume. What happens then? Is there

So you're right. They have 12 months warranty. God forbid if one

arrives and just doesn't turn on. I don't think that's actually ever happened to us.

And usually when we do an order of 500 machines, we'll

order 550. And then if a client's one

didn't just whack this one on for them, that's fine. They wouldn't even notice.

So we deal with that on the back end. So yes, they have the 12-month warranty.

We would just deal with that. The client's money would just go online. The

other side is after the 12 months, or even during the 12 months, it

is a computer. A cord maybe needs to replace, a

fan needs to replace. They're built up by two fans and

three hashboards. A fan replaced, like 20 bucks,

usually we'll just do that for clients. So it's nothing really?

It's peanuts. We'll do that usually, and we have all

the stock on the facility do it. It's a pretty quick change. Hashboard, depending

on how old the miner is, like in the first 12 months, you could send it

all the way back to China and go through the process and it's downtime

for like a month or two, right? Or we can fix it on site. So we've

got a full team that repairs miners on site. And so there might be

a small fee, 100, 200, 300, just depending on what the

I've actually been pretty good. I haven't had any problems to be honest. After their sort

That's all it is. It's a desktop computer. Maybe you get blue screen

and you're like, oh, you take it to the tech

guy and he 300 bucks. Okay. Didn't expect it, but mostly tech's

Well, we're coming to the end of this episode because I know time is of the

essence. Now I want to drop in the thing I said in the very beginning as

to my light bulb moments and why people should

be seriously thinking about buying Bitcoin mining machines. Now, the

very first thing is, and I kind of feel bad

saying this, to be honest, because I think if this leaks out, Are

And the first thing is that when you buy Bitcoin mining machines,

there's no KYC. OK.

Now people are going to be like, what's KYC? Know your customer.

Yeah. Now when you go to a bank or an exchange, a

crypto exchange, you have to go through showing all your ID, biometric

scans, right? Which is obviously even getting worse. Even the government right now

is imposing this. over 16 rule, right? If you

go onto social media, you're gonna have to prove that you're over 16, right? With all

this crazy ID checks, right? Complete overreach. But

in Bitcoin mining, there is no KYC. Now what that means is

that you can remain private, okay? So if you're someone who's thinking,

look, I don't wanna be exposed to have all my information out there to do with

anything, all my financial transactions, then this is

a way to actually just buy the Bitcoin mining machines. Because when

you send the invoice, I just pay the invoice, right? So

you send me the invoice for the Bitcoin mining machines, I just pay the invoice. Now, whether that's

people doing it from their SMSF or other, okay? So that's

the first thing. And that alone should

be like, just like people just like phoning you now. The

second thing is that in this day and age, it's extremely difficult

to get large sums and even small sums like 5,000, 10,000, but

certainly in the hundreds of thousands, it's very, very difficult to

on-ramp that fiat currency into an exchange

to then buy Bitcoin. Because most people who are not, who are

sort of brand new to crypto and Bitcoin, that it's like,

well, I'll just transfer money from my bank to the exchange and

everything will be great. No, that is not happening. It's not

If you're lucky, you'll get bank accounts closed down.

If you're really unfortunate and you bank with another company who starts with the letter

W, they'll shut down all of your accounts. I had

a customer or a client of mine who had it closed for a

week and she had to go into the branch begging for her accounts to

be unblocked. Same here, a client who is a farmer. Oh, it's just horrid,

right? Business accounts. So here's the point, is

that you could easily transfer hundreds

of thousands, a million dollars. You had a client obviously doing four million, wasn't it?

Four and a half, yeah. Four and a half million dollars. I could just transfer that money

to you without any blocks, questions, or

nothing. No qualms. No KYC. And

then I'm going to get virgin Bitcoin. which

we didn't even talk about this, which is actually cheaper than getting it

from the exchange, because obviously exchange have to make money too, like they've

got their margin and their exchange fees. So you're gonna get

cheaper and it's completely private into

your sovereign wallet. Guys, I don't know how much clearer

I can make this. You should be picking up the phone today in

phoning the mining store and getting Bitcoin mining machines. And that's why every time I talk to you, you

And that's the way it should be. You know, that's the way it should be. The

way that the world's going and how much censorship they

want over every single asset that you got. I pay my taxes back

off. You know what I mean? Like, you don't need to know how much I have in gold

in my safe, how much I have here. Like, that's wrong, you know. And

there's a mass migration happening because of it. You know, that's right. A

lot of people moving to Dubai, a lot of people going overseas. So

yeah, to answer that exactly, you know, I can't advise you

not to pay tax, you know, I'm not advising you not to pay tax. Yeah,

but you don't need to know about it. Yeah. That's in.

And how about this for an example, like in Australia, we're well off, you know, at

the end of the day, you know, we don't have huge corruption and things like that going on.

Or, you know, some countries, it's not like that. They

can't actually trust their banking system. Right. So for

countries like that, or even in Australia, who knows what's going to happen in

the next 10 years, having that money there, The

banks, the government can't force you to sell that. They

can't say, hey, you've done X, Y, Z, which you're not guilty for

or whatever it is. And they come in to seize your asset. They can't do that. Yeah.

So only you can transact on that. That's pretty powerful, especially

Absolutely. I think it's super powerful. And on that note, guys, I just want

to say thank you to Will for coming in and sharing all that insight

into Bitcoin mining. I really think it's important that people think about this so

carefully if they want to be private. as sovereign and build capital and

wealth into the future using Bitcoin and

Bitcoin mining. All right, Will, thanks so much. Take care. Thanks, mate. Thanks for

tuning in to Crypto Collective. If you've enjoyed this episode, the best

way to show your support is to leave a five-star review on Apple

Podcast or Spotify. And make sure to subscribe to the YouTube

channel so you don't miss an episode. You can also find more of

me at I'm Matthew Fraser on all