Welcome to the Creative Switch, the podcast inspiring the sensibly successful to switch on their unexpressed creativity for a more fulfilled life. Are you someone who is feeling a little unsure or underconfident in your creative endeavors and looking for support? Today's guest, actor, artist, coach and poet Rebecca Lacey has plenty of examples of how you can find the right people to help. Having shifted through many different creative disciplines and put the emphasis on each one at different times due to life's ebb and flow, she always has an outlet for her creative expression. Her story is full of wisdom and inspiration. And if you are looking to turn your creative inspiration into action, don't forget to listen right to the end of the episode and catch up with my creative adventures. This is where I share the challenges I encounter and how acting on the nuggets of wisdom I've learned from my guests and applying those learnings is helping me to move forward and in my own creative projects. This time, find out about how I've made space for the creative passion which is closest to my heart by remembering some advice from author Melanie Cantor about the best place to look for support. Before we get to that, do remember to head to my website nikkivallance.com where I've gathered even more insights and advice from my guests in your free guide to seven common creative challenges and how to overcome them. And now it's time for some creative news. In the Edge.

We love the image of a lone creator, the writer at their desk, the painter in their light filled studio, the musician lost in their composition. But here's the truth. Creativity doesn't thrive in isolation. I don't think support is optional. Through my exploration of creative life, I've actually found quite the opposite. In the UK Art Council England's Let's Create strategy makes this clear. They fund many projects, they help people and organizations build creative ecosystems, and that financial support enables libraries to become creative hubs, sports events to be co-created with disabled artists and communities to be invited in to collaborate. When I wrote my article investigating the question, 'What do we need to say yes to creativity?', support came back as one of the answers. And there are many ways to find it. Musicians know this too. Help Musicians UK has shown that grants, mentoring and mental health support are lifelines in an industry where careers are precarious. For all of us it's about knowing someone has your back when the road gets hard, and knowing that bouncing off each other can produce ideas you would not have come to on your own. And at grassroots initiatives like Creative Lives prove that Even small pots of funding for community radio, local partnerships or micro grants can generate opportunities for collaboration. Support matters because creativity is relational. Ideas grow when they're witnessed, challenged and nurtured. Without support, the myth of the solitary genius becomes a trap. With support, creativity becomes a shared act of resilience and joy. So when we invest in creative people, through policy, through community, through friendships, through love, we're cultivating situations where imagination can flourish and where creators can continue to give us the stories, the sounds and the visions that shape our world. If you want to find out more about any of these initiatives, you can find all the links mentioned in the show notes. And for a more in depth exploration on the art and science of creative living, join in with the conversation at the Bold Types on Substack, where you can find out the other pillars needed to support creative life. Or why not message me on Instagram @Nikki_Vallance. Whether you're just starting out and wondering whether you should even try, or are already in the thick of pursuing your creative passion, I'd love to hear from you. And listen next to hear all the creative life twists and turns of my guest who has found support for herself and her work in all sorts of different ways, places and communities. Actor, coach, artist and poet Rebecca Lacey.

Hello Rebecca, and welcome to the Creative Switch. So fantastic to have you here.

Thank you so much, Nikki. Thank you for having me.

I'm sure we're going to have a great conversation. And what I love about this, I often don't know the person I'm going to talk to. I know a little bit about you, obviously, but I don't know much and we've never met before. So I find it really exciting to discover what we have in common and talk about creativity and it's going to be wonderful. But maybe you could explain something about who you are and what you do.

Okay. I'm Rebecca Lacey and I'm primarily an actor. I've been an actor Since I was 15, a professional actor since that age, and I'm also a poet, an artist, and a life coach and also a mother of two. Mustn't forget that that's the most creative job there is in the world.

Definitely brilliant. Okay, so if you started professionally acting at 15, do you remember the point at which you recognized that was important to you or that you were a creative person?

I think I knew when I was about four that I wanted to be an actor. Both my parents were actors. So I think every child looks at what their parents do for a living and go, does that look like they're having a good time, or that's the worst thing anyone could possibly do with their life. So I looked at my parents and thought, I really like the look of what they're doing for a living. So I do consciously remember that. I also know I was always playing a lot in my own world. I was always picking up bits of things and making something out of them. Very conscious that I was always painting and drawing, as do most children, I would say. I think we all forget that as we grow up and we say we're not very good at something. So I can consciously remember really paying attention to the crayons and how they felt and the paints. I love those paints in the pot, you know, with the lid that stop them falling out as you tip it over. And just. I love the whole thing of it. I love the color, I love the feel of the paint putting the paint on the paper. And as I say, remembering about four, thinking, I think I'd like to be an actor. That looks like fun.

Wow. So it's a long road to get from there to doing what you're doing now. So maybe you could give me a little bit of a feeling of perhaps the twists and turns of the decisions that you made or the kind of the places that you think are the turning points in that journey to get to be you today.

Okay. So I was 15 and I was at school, and I didn't tell anyone that I wanted to be an actor. Because this is the other thing that people don't quite get about actors a lot is that a lot of actors are introverts. So it's not that you want a lot of attention. You don't. It's just that your inner world is creating other ways to express yourself because you're an introvert. And sometimes, like, for me, the play of it. So what would happen if that happened to that person? Or look at that woman crossing the road. She's got a bent back. I wonder how that feels. That sort of intense play and observation of how people are and how they interact was what was happening to me. So basically, because both my parents were actors, I didn't want to tell anyone. I didn't want any pressure on me to go, yeah, oh, you want to be an actor? Is this what you want to do? You must be good at it because your parents do it. I didn't tell anyone anything, including my parents. And in the summer When I was 15, I went off and signed up to was like an amateur group at the Curtain Theater in the East End. And I went off and I just did it. And then I told my parents that I was doing it and they could come and see the final show. They brought along my godfather, he came as well. And I remember their faces afterwards. They were all just open mouthed because nobody knew I wanted to be an actor. I wasn't like life and soul of the party. I wasn't going out all the time. So they were all really dumbstruck and thought I was great. Basically they just thought, oh, my God, you've got something here. Now, it so happens that my godfather was a casting director. So doesn't that help? So my godfather said, I'm casting something at the moment. Would you like to come in and read? My parents were. Well, she's still at school, so we don't think that's a terribly good idea, but okay. So then you can see what it's like to really face all the rejection. Well, of course, I went back three times and I got the job. And I ended up at 15, 16 during my mock GCSEs, having to get a car outside school, go off to the studios again, trying not to tell anyone. Always telling my friends, oh, I've got toothache, I've got to go to the dentist. Oh, I've got doctor's appointment. Things like that. I was always making up rubbish things. I didn't want all the fuss and attention.

Yeah.

So that was the first big turning point. Then I ended up staying on at school, did my A levels and then I got a job. I'd say the next big turning point was then not going to drama school, not getting into drama school, getting on the shortlist for a couple of places, but not getting in. And then getting a job at the National Theater as an usher. So I became an usherette for two years and got my theater education there. So I saw so many shows, I saw so many actors. I met some brilliant people. The usherettes and ushers in any theater will all be creatives of some sort. They were all musicians, actors, writers, composers, artists. Incredible people that I met. Friends for life.

Yeah.

So that experience was like another big turning point for me to realize I didn't have to go to drama school. I taught myself by observation, by what I liked, what I didn't like, what I thought was a good performance, what I thought was a good play, not just what everyone else was saying. That was incredible. I then had. I was very lucky. Had really good agents and I've had a really good career. Touch wood. I think the next big turning point would be when I got pregnant.

Yep.

And you can't do that job anymore. I went from television series to television series and I was doing a series called Monrch of the Glen and I found I was pregnant and they said to me, we'll write it into this storyline and you can come back with a baby if you want. So there was a big turning point for me there. Do I continue my career, have a baby, you know, on set, six week old baby, probably breastfeeding, back into Winnebago or whatever. I've seen people do that. I've seen actors do that. Did I want to do that? That was a big decision and I decided not to do that but to commit myself to having the baby. Being with the baby and seeing what happened. My husband's also a freelancer, so I didn't work for seven years is the bottom line. I had two kids and I knew when I made that decision to not go back to market, I knew what I was doing. I knew I was possibly closing the door for some time. So my husband was away working at that time. Thankfully he earned more money than I did. That was an easy decision in that respect. So what it left me with was what do I do as a creative person when I can't do the thing, my career that I've loved for the last however many years it had been, it's really the only job I'd known. What do I do? So a friend of mine said, was talking to me about how she'd been to see a life coach. And this life coach had encouraged her to run a marathon in New York. And she'd met her life partner all within six months. So I was like, wow. I'd always been somebody who people come to when they have problems. I've always spent a lot of time helping people, I suppose not because I'm such a great person, but because I really love listening to people. I love people's stories. I love how interesting everybody is. I mean, you must think that Nikki, because you wouldn't do this job if you didn't.

You mentioned the word stories. I think it's something that's running through from when you were a child creating those stories and all the observation. And I think one of the things that makes a life coach a good life coach is that you have to listen to what's really going on. And sometimes it's not the things that are said, it's sometimes the things that are not said or it's you're picking up the person's energy. So when they go up in their energy, you think, ah, that must matter more. Let's dig into that bit to see if that's going to open up the next path or the next idea. So as you say, because I was trained as a coach as well, I think you are always naturally able to do it and I'd be interested to hear what you think about this. The training just solidifies the skills you have and it goes, okay, yeah, you've always been able to do this, but if you do it this way with these techniques and this method, then X, Y, Z can happen rather than it just being you, just being a friendly ear to a friend. The other thing I would say I'd love your opinion on is that the difference between a friend who's a good listener and a coach, is you are not bothered in the slightest which direction or which decision the person takes. So if I'd been coaching you at the point when you said, oh, I'm having a baby, I don't know whether I should stay an actor or not, at this point, I wouldn't have cared which way you went. Whereas maybe someone in your acting world might go, what are you doing? Don't do that, because they might have been scared for you. So that's why I love that you can give that distance, that perspective on the situation without being attached to it.

I totally agree. And that is a joy in itself, isn't it? You feel the joy from the other person that you don't know them because they're just telling you all these things and then sometimes very specific and narrow things. I love getting into the detail with people about what do you really mean by that? And as you say, what they're saying isn't really what's valuable, it's what the intention is and the unpicking this onion layers of their personality or what it is they're trying to get to. But yes, I totally agree with the training gives you that. I trained with a company called ITS. I did six months with them on a foundation and then I went and did another six months as a master. And after that I felt, yes, I had those natural skills, but they did give me techniques to approach people with different skills, different ways of listening that I hadn't thought of. And it was, it was invaluable, I would say, and I loved it. So yes, I totally agree. I think training is essential in anything because it gives you confidence apart from anything else. You go, oh, I've got this qualification, I can do this now. You are distant to your client, as you say, you don't mind which way they go. And often you can say, you said you were going to do that and you decided to do that. That's so fun and interesting. Whereas if it's a friend and you've spent a lot of time with them, then they go back to that partner that they spent 10 years slagging off, and then they leave them and go back to them. You just. You feel urgh. Whereas as a coach, you just kind of go, wow, that's interesting. Why are we doing this?

Yeah. So there's a practical decision that you were making because you had decided that you wanted to be around for the family. And also financially, you were in that situation where a slightly more stable income was coming in from your husband. So you had this new profession that you're working on. Some people do that. Some people leave acting or leave their creative passion and profession that they've taken up early on in life and they change direction and they never go back. But that wasn't you. So you've got a little bit of a portfolio of things going on at this point in your life.

Yes.

So talk to me about that, that return, as well as keeping the coaching going.

So I would. I have worked with a lot of actors as a coach. I worked with a lot of creative people as a coach. Acting is like a bit of a drug. So you imagine it's really hard to find another job that really satisfies that same urge. When you've loved it, if you haven't loved it and you've had a lot of pain and hurt from it, then it feels a relief to give it up or it's okay to give it up. But acting for me was. I was used to being around actors. I felt at home with actors. I missed them terribly and I missed the world of creating with actors. When I'm not doing it, and I still feel like that when I'm not doing it. I think most actors feel like that because it's a crazy job. You wouldn't do it unless you had a kind of mad passion for it, a kind of addictive love for it. And it's really not the thing that people think. It's not about the attention and the fame. I mean, it is for some people, but that's very few. It's more the creative connection that you have and the playing that you do and the fun that comes from that playing and the results you get from that and that enjoyment. So it wasn't difficult for me to. In the seven years that I didn't act, I didn't consciously give up and go back. For me it was like, I'm still acting, I'm just looking after the kids as well.

Yeah.

But I knew I wasn't acting. You know, I was going to the theater whenever I could, was still in touch with all my friends. I was really on top of what everyone was doing, what was happening, what the new plays were. I was really, really connected. So I think I never gave up is the thing.

No, no.

So it wasn't like going back.

No. I guess it's a bit like when you are an actor, you're not unless you're in a long running role, working all the time. It's the same thing. It's just it was a longer period of not being out there, but you were still doing all the things you would have done if you'd had a gap in between jobs.

That's right. That's exactly what I felt it was like. It's like a really long gap where I produced and raised two gorgeous children. Lucky me, you know. But I do think acting is a full time, part time job. To sum up what you just said.

Yes, definitely. So did you just start or actively talking with your agent or engaging in auditions?

Yeah, it was basically when my daughter went to school when she was 4. That was when things became a lot easier and I could go to auditions or I could start to leave her places, people could pick her up and yeah, various things like that. So yes, things did come in over the years where I didn't work, they were just away or touring or things that I wasn't prepared to do. I just said to my agent, I'm ready for work, can you look for some more projects for me? So as I say, it wasn't like starting back again, although I was nervous. It was just a continuation of what I'd always done.

Yeah. Okay. So then there's another turning point.

The next. I mean it's all life and death, isn't it? The turning points. I mean it's always like one door closes, another one opens, you know?

Yeah.

The next turning point was my mother wasn't well and during all this time when the kids were at school, I was coaching and acting. So I had two jobs and that worked together very, very well because I was calling the shots on when I was doing the coaching. And then my mum got poorly so I had to stop everything and look after her. So that's what I did. And then I thought, I can't do this full time without doing something that keeps me sane. And she didn't need like 24 hour care or anything like that. She just needed taking to the doctors, she needed me to do the shopping, she needed me to do all those kind of things. So I approached Richmond College, which is where I live, of Art, and applied for a foundation in Fine art,

Which was always there waiting for you to pick up the paintbrush again from when you were a little child.

Exactly. Because I thought I was sitting there saying, what have I always wanted to do? What have I always wanted to do? Well, this. Let's give it a go. And I went for the interview. I mean, this is the other thing I need to say to you, Nikki. None of these things I make, you say. Oh, this is what happened. I was terrified at every single step of every single thing I've done. I've been terrified. It required enormous amounts of courage and talking around and around and around it. Should I shouldn't I, should I, shouldn't I. Anyway, I did it. I got onto the foundation course I was older than anyone else by 30 years and I had a brilliant year. I had a fantastic time. Unfortunately, during that year my mum passed away.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that.

Yeah. And I got a job at the Royal Shakespeare Company whilst I was still doing my foundation. So, I mean, that's life for you, isn't it? So I just juggled it all. I went down to Stratford Upon Avon and I came back for my final show. I asked for two days off in my contract again. So this is so me. I didn't tell anyone why I wanted the two days off. I didn't even tell my agent. I said, can I request these two days off? She was like, okay, fine, she has to have these two days off rehearsal. And I just came back up because I had to be there to put the final show up for the exhibition for the foundation again. I was like, oh great. I got a distinction. I did my foundation fine. I've crossed that off my list of things I need to do. Opened a show in Stratford Upon Avon. Da di da di da. Then time goes on. I was at the Royal Shakespeare Company doing Merry Wives of Windsor for eight months. But you have a big chunk of time off and then, well, they're doing other shows. I was only in the one show. I was able to juggle everything. I didn't really think much more about art because I thought, I've ticked that box. I'm not really going to do a degree because I don't think I can spare the time or the money or commitment. But then a friend of mine who's an artist and runs a small art gallery came over and said, can I see your foundation work? So I showed her and she said, this is great. I want you to do an exhibition. And I kid you not, as she was talking to me, I hid behind the chair, our armchair in the living room. Because I said, no, no, no, I can't, I can't do that. It's terrible. My work's terrible. I can't possibly. I was literally shrinking. She was going, I what are you doing? I'm so sorry. I just feel so. I can't do it. Anyway, of course I did it. With her encouragement, I ended up selling half the work. I was like a frightened rabbit the whole evening.

I can imagine. For someone who's introverted, I can imagine that being absolutely terrifying experience.

It was. I've had exhibitions since. It's still much more terrifying than any first night. You know, I've played to two, two and a half thousand people. It's much more terrifying, you know, in a small art gallery and a private view and people going, what is that? Or you feel that's what they're doing anyway, and you're on your own. That's it. As an artist.

And you're being you as well.

That's right. You're really you. You're not hiding behind a character, which is what I love to do. I like to hide behind things. But it's really you out there. And also as an actor, you've always got other actors around, which is the joy of it. I never understand people doing one woman shows or one person shows. How boring. Anyway, whatever. Next thing you hear me doing, I'll probably be doing a one woman show. But anyway, yes, so that was the next thing. So then Covid hit, which meant I had a long time to explore the art, which is what happened for a lot of people, I think.

Absolutely, yes.

So I had a lot of time to explore art and I did two online exhibitions. So for me that was the perfect solution because you didn't have to front face anybody. And again, they sold really well. People seem to be coming back with beautiful comments about them and how it's cheering them up and all the lovely stuff that was happening during lockdowns, as well as of course, all the disastrous stuff. And also during that time I looked into poetry because I found it very consoling. And one of the things I'd always done is write poetry. So back when I was with the crayons I wrote my first poem when I was about six or seven, you know, at school when they go. And now I write a poem about a tree. But I've continued to write it all through my life as a way of getting things off my chest. So during the lockdowns during COVID again, I explored. I did a couple of online courses, found that I really enjoyed it and subsequently I've got two pamphlets. I won a competition, various things. I've been on many courses now and I absolutely love it. So now here I am with three solo exhibitions, two group exhibitions, a residency that I've just completed and two poetry pamphlets. I mean, how the hell did that happen?

I was going to say, and what next?

Well, I don't know. But what I think it be really interesting for people to understand is that it's not because I want lots of attention about it. I find it really difficult to show people my poetry and share it, but at the same time, why the hell am I writing it if I don't want anyone to see it? And there's that moment that happens where you go, actually I'm just saying, hello, this is how I feel. How do you feel? That's all I'm doing.

Yeah. I think because I've thought about this a lot as well. I think it's about connection. You talked about your acting, actors in general being able to express themselves through that because they don't necessarily always feel able to do it as themselves. And I think these are all ways of existing as you, but expressing and connecting with people. I listened to Emma Gannon who had a very successful podcast on creativity and interviewing lots of really interesting people. She then moved from this medium into Substack. She was already a writer anyway, but she moved into Substack, I think about three years ago. What she was saying the other day was she remembers a meeting when she was with her publishing team for one of her non fiction books and she was asking the question, why does the industry feel that we need to be always relatable, that word relatable. And she said, because actually when we're creating, we're creating from within ourselves and shouldn't we be free to create. If it happens to then be relatable, then it will sell. And of course that's the problem. So you've got the business side of creativity where if you're producing something, it has to appeal to people because otherwise it won't sell. But on the other hand, it comes from within. So there's that turning point. Isn't there? I have exactly the same issue as you. I want to create for myself, but I don't just want it to be in a vacuum. I want it to touch people and people to react to it, and I want to know what they think. I almost don't mind whether they don't like it. I just want some kind of reaction because it's a conversation between me and them, so. But it's very, very difficult if you're not well known in your field, whichever field it is, to start out and to say to yourself, well, how do I sell myself? Particularly if you're introverted. I don't want to big myself up. I'm not someone who goes around showing off. How on earth am I going to reach people who need this? Because I've made it, not just for me, now it's out in the world, it's for other people, too. So how do you square that circle with your poetry, for example?

I find it extremely difficult. So what I do a lot is. So recently we had a group show which was fantastic, by the way, called Many Actors Make Art. And there were 70 actors who also paint beautifully. And everybody was different and it was wonderful. I also took along my poetry this year and a pamphlet, and I sold it there to people who were interested. It was a byproduct. But in fact, what happened was, was I was starting to talk about the art I was making, which I've got very into rubbish. Nature and rubbish are my themes. So I've made this huge, huge piece which was about 5 foot by 3 foot out of Amazon packaging. And I'd made a piece of ocean. It's called Trust in the Rolling Ocean. So I'd made this huge blue piece of Amazon packaging, and my poetry collection is called Things Fall Apart. So they were related and I just had them on the side there. And then as I was talking about the pieces that I'd made for out of the rubbish, I then said, if you're interested, I've written some poetry about it. It's kind of related, not related. You may not like poetry. And then saw how people reacted and then most people went, oh, that's interesting, because people like a book. Sometimes people like something to hold onto while they're taking in the visual. I sold loads there, absolutely loads. I also printed up on some beautiful paper some of the poems that I thought were relevant and framed them. And I sold all of those. So it was really interesting to weave the two things. I also give them away. I give them to people. Because if I'm having a conversation. I met a friend yesterday and she said to me, oh, how's it going? Blah, blah, blah. And she said, I really love your poetry, you know. And I was like, well, I did have a new pamphlet out. And she was like, oh, would you send it to me? I said, of course. So it's just about if somebody slightly reaches out or shows an interest. I haven't got very good yet at pushing that forward, but I will get there because I'm slowly getting more confident about it. And as I get more confident about the work and more people say to me that, really, I really loved that poem. It really moved me. It really touched me.It affected me. I'm going, okay, that's not about my ego. Oh, I may have helped somebody. It's like sitting and having a little chat with them.

Yes,

That's how it feels. I'm hopeful to get more confident that what I'm saying isn't total rubbish and it's actually touching people and maybe making a little difference to the day. And another person says, contacted me and said, I have it beside my bed. There's a few poems that I read every night. So I hold on to that. I think every creative does. You hold on to those nuggets of positive feedback that keep you going. I'm literally just moving to the next step. So the next thought I have is about maybe trying to find a smaller gallery that I can do perhaps a poetry reading and have my art around me. Yeah, that's what I'm now thinking vaguely, I might be looking for now. This could happen in a year's time, it could happen in three months time. I'm not a fast mover in that respect because I need confidence. I need slow confidence, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, I do. There are things in our lives that we find easier and others that we struggle with. But there are lots of skills we all need to have. And I think probably today more than ever, we need to know who we are and how we can communicate that to people. But if you're not naturally someone who likes being the center of attention or is comfortable standing in front of a crowd, however big or small they are, being you, as opposed to being a part, you've recognized it's a gap and you thought, well, I can get better at this. You know, we can teach ourselves things that we're not naturally aligned to. But what I was interested in there, which I was thinking of when you were talking about the moments when the art was on the wall and people were picking up the poetry and they were liking that experience of the two blended together was, sometimes the selling is hard when we're trying too hard.

Yes, exactly.

And actually if you're in the right place and it's the right audience, it's not that you had to sell. They were interested, as you said, they were taking a step towards you rather than you having to kind of reach and pull them in from outside. They were already there because they were interested.

Yes.

And I think that's the key, I think, is making sure that you use your creativity to think, well, where are the people who this matters to?

Yes, exactly, exactly. But I did fall into a trap after my first exhibition of going, you know, there was a certain type of painting/ drawing that sold really well. I'll just do more of those. Well, that doesn't work because that's not come from you. So you really have to just follow your own instincts. And then with commitment. This is what happened this last time with commitment. I then explained what it was.

Yeah.

And the people seem to really love it, that I had made a piece of ocean out of a load of old rubbish. They seem to get that thing now. There's two really important things to me is nature and recycling, you know. And there I was just because I had this crazy idea of collecting all the rubbish. What am I going to do? Oh, I think that looks like an ocean. Instead of going, no, it doesn't. I went, right, get that down quickly, quickly, do it, you know. So I make the work very quickly.

Yes.

But I find it really hard to make that transition into putting it out there. I find that a very big leap, you know.

Yeah, fair enough.

And everybody's different. I've been coaching now for 20 years and that's what I love is how completely different everybody is. You must love that too.

Yeah, I do.

I'm much better one to one. So this is great for me and coaching is great for me because I can really tune in to the one person, the one thing. So when I'm writing poetry, it's just me and my thought, my idea that can happen. So what happens when you open up to an exhibition is I think most creatives or artists are really tuned in, so you get too much information going on and you get paranoid. So the thing I'm really trying to learn, going back to what else the gap is, the gap in me is to just calm down and as you just calm down and sit back and have confidence that what I've made is what I wanted to make.

Yes.

Regardless of what Anyone else thinks, yeah, if one person says, I like that, then you've won.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. There are different phases. And I think sometimes I do despair a little bit when people say, if you're a novelist, you have to write every day. If you don't write every day, you're not a writer. And I think to a certain extent, I agree, because it's about being close to who you're trying to be. But actually writing isn't just writing, and I'm sure everything you do isn't. So painting isn't just painting, and making art isn't just making art. You have to have the conceptualization phase. And often that takes years, sometimes for something to brew. And then you have the spark and go, ah, that's it, that's what I'm going to do. And then you have the making phase, and then it's the communicating with the outside world. So there's so many different phases and as you say, the timelines, it's like an accordion. They're going in and out all the time.

Exactly, exactly. Yes. I think it's about being in practice, you know, as an artist. That's what you talk about. And there's a wonderful artist called Agnes Martin. She painted lots of those beautiful grids with very thin white lines. They're very, very beautiful, hypnotic paintings. And if you watch video of her working, she spends most of the time just looking at the wall like that. Hours and hours looking at a wall, and then she moves. That's the opposite of what I do. And I do think, as you're saying about novelists, it's not necessarily being, oh, I get up and I work from. You know, you do hear this about lots of novelists, don't you? I work from six in the morning till midday, and then I've done 10,000 words and on time. Marvelous. It's about sitting in practice, which is awareness, isn't it? It's just about being aware, which comes back to listening. So it's about listening to yourself, listening to what's going on, listening to the outside. What are you trying to do? Being in practice. So as a writer, it's actually about not just getting the words out, because, I mean, you could write 10,000 terrible words, couldn't you? So it's about sitting with what it is you want to do on a daily basis, sitting with yourself, sitting with your practice, whatever that is for you. Yeah, on a daily basis, I suggest, and just having the knowledge, or even saying to yourself, I am a writer. I am writing.

Absolutely.

This Is what I do. Okay, how do I do this?

Yeah, absolutely.

It's the connection with yourself as well as trying to connect with other people.

What I love about the creative world and all the conversations I've had with people is that there's two things that are true, that are completely opposite to each other. One is everyone is unique, and the other is creativity has, across all disciplines, a very clear set of ways of being and doing that help you do it. Yes. There's commonality between all of the different disciplines. And then even more than that, it's a way of living, it's a way of thinking. And as you say, coming right back to what you started with, if you can be playful in whatever your discipline is and you focus on the moment that you're in rather than worrying about will people like this, or I'm making it for this type of person because. Or whatever, as soon as you start going too far ahead of yourself and getting too serious about it, I think it actually shuts it all down. And you can't create then because your reference is wrong. You're looking at the wrong thing.

Yes, absolutely. Well, also, you're not. It goes back to listening again, doesn't it? You're not listening to yourself. You're listening to what other people are saying.

Yeah.

And actually, I am a great believer. I've got two creative kids, so I'm constantly trying to make them aware of what they have. There's only ever us. That is us. There's only you. That's you. There's only me. That's me. Our biggest thing that we can sell is our uniqueness. That's why I never. I don't understand the Botox thing and I don't understand wanting to look identical to everybody else. I understand fashion, I understand expression. I understand wanting to fit in, but actually not noticing that the one thing you have that no one can take away from you is your uniqueness. You know, your own print.

Yeah.

Your own DNA, your own unique way of seeing the world. Nobody else sees the world like you do. And I think a job of a creative of any sort is to try and go, I see the world like this. How about you?

Yeah.

And if they like what you're doing, they'll go, I like that too. I mean, I'm sure you've had this experience when you read a great book, or you read a poem, or you see a painting, a sculpture or whatever it is, and you go, oh, wow, that's really touched me. And I don't know why. That's the joy of it. I don't know why I'm so moved by that, but it's touched me in the solar plexus. I'm gasping.

Magic.

It's the magic. And that's something you can't manufacture. That's something you can't Botox your lips into place.

I think it's true. Also, somebody else that I've been reading recently, I love her writing. Her name's Hannah Ashe. She's actually one of the guests on this season. She was a musician who became a music teacher, who became a head of music, who then burnt out, who then said, what else do I love? Okay, I've always loved making, designing, and I quite like, we've just done our house. Okay, maybe interiors is my thing. So she trained in that and she was doing that. But alongside that, she started writing almost for herself really, and as a way of communicating her journey. She then found she loves the writing part of it as well. But what she said was really interesting, which is when she's writing something that she has just an idea and goes, oh, that would be a good topic. I'm going to write about that. And she gets up early in the morning and it just comes out of her head. So those posts that she puts on Substack are the ones that resonate with everybody, the ones which have just come from inside and she just puts them out there. The ones that she thinks about a bit too much. She goes, actually, I should be talking about these disciplines or this part of my job, because that's what everyone wants to know. They don't really land because she's, I guess, like you say, thinking about what things should be like and not following her own instincts.

Yes, I would say that. For six months earlier this year, I got up before my family and soon as I got up, I would sit and spend an hour on poetry and I would write sometimes three or four poems as they came to me directly from that sleep state, the subconscious and straight out. And those are the ones where I have got same similar thing. I've got the nugget, a truthful nugget of what it is I want to say. And they're the most interesting.

Yeah.

And when I look back at them, I'm like, did I write that? Was that me? Because my conscious brain is now gone. Well, that's silly thing to write about.Nobody's interested in that, you know, but when I look at them, think, that's a great idea, that. What a crazy, wild concept. Conscious brains, our conscious intellectual brains are so good at analyzing and intellectualizing and criticizing that if we can get that out the way.

Yeah

It's brilliant. And then we're back to that childlike state. And then we're just playing and having fun.

Yeah.

And just being crazy.

You know, somehow I had a crazy dream last night. I was in a cafe/ music venue of some sort. Not one that's a real one, where everyone who was there was just a creative person. I knew a couple of people who had been in a band in the 70s and I thought, I recognize you, but I don't know who you are, but you're really famous, but you're just having a coffee on the side. And then there was another person who was also famous who just sat down and started writing music with Robbie Williams. And then one of them came up to me and said, oh, should we just do some writing together? Let's write some songs. And I said, yeah. That's really mad.

That's fantastic. But what that says to me is that you're through this podcast and through everything you're doing, you're looking for like minded people.

Yeah.

Because actually the creative process is very singular and you're on your own and actually you just sometimes need to say someone to say to you, that's great, or keep going, or I love it. Or oh, let's just have a, let's have a quick discussion about that, you know, and so you're in the bar with all these musicians and you're going, let's do this together. Just jam, you know.

Anyway, I wanted just to ask you before we finish what you're doing at the moment, you've obviously just finished an exhibition, so what's the current projects you've got on?

Okay, so I just finished this residency, which was a very interesting thing for me because it wasn't to sell. So there wasn't an exhibition at the end of it. There was an open studio. So I had a gallery for a month. I was artist in residence and I created what I was interested in and I pursued it in the space. I mean, it could have been one piece. I could have had an open studio which had just one piece of paper in the middle and nothing else. As it turned out, I had a lot of stuff. I took the idea of the concept of the Amazon packaging in the ocean and I made a huge big bonfire of Amazon packaging and I threw blue paint all over it. I then had some birds coming out of the ceiling. So it was called Rising Ocean, Skyfall. And I created this 3D piece, which I'd never done before. So it was very exciting for me. And I made another piece out of bin liners, compostable bin liners. I was trying to say something about microplastics, how we're eating microplastics, we're growing microplastics, you know. But I made this quite beautiful piece out of bin liners and very, very big again. It's about 8 foot by 5 foot, because I had the space to do it. So in answer to your question, what I'm working on at the moment is taking all those ideas. I've honed it down now, which is that my practice revolves around nature and rubbish, and I use color to express my ideas and bring them to life. So a lot of my interest now going forward is about us noticing the humble, small stuff that we throw away. I'm absolutely fascinated in things that decay, because decay is an essential part of life. And so I think there's deep joy in sort of curling edges and cobweb corners as much as there is in bright pink peonies. And I'm realizing, or I have realized, that I love life in all its forms and find all of its parts equally interesting. So I'm pursuing my theme of decay, resurrecting things. So I've allowed some apples that were from Wales, which is particular place, special to me, to decay. And I'm going to be painting them and finding new ways to bring them to the attention so that we don't just go, oh, that's a dead apple, that's a dead leaf. Oh, it's in my way. Let's try and notice the small stuff. I'm moving into a bigger studio now, which is very exciting for me, and I'm going to try and explore ways of expanding that theme into pieces that people can either put on their walls or I can make some photographs of or something. Because at the moment, the pieces that I made in the residency were huge and wonderful for an exhibition, but nobody can take home a piece of that.

No.

So I'm trying to now be true to the idea of what I've found, but find a way of containing it, I suppose. And they can't reach out to people.

Yeah. So it's a bit like high fashion on a catwalk, oges to stuff we can actually wear.

Exactly, exactly. That's exactly it. Without losing any of my integrity about the idea. Yes, that's what I'm going to do. And I, again, I'm trying to weave My poetry into it all the time. Because text is so important to me and not just my poetry. I mean, like Dylan Thomas or whoever the poet is, I fixated on at the time because I'm mad about Dylan Thomas at the the moment. So I'm trying to pursue those things whilst also my own poetry, trying to get my own poetry into a different place. And I'm not quite sure how I'm going to do that, but that's okay, you know, I don't quite know what I'm going to do, but I know I'm going to stay in practice. I'm going to stay in the zone, as we used to call it, or in flow, and keep pursuing it. Because there is a point, I think sometimes I. I'm sure a lot of creatives feel the same. What is the point? And that's when it all dips. It doesn't matter what the point is. The point is you're going to do it anyway. So just do it, you know, don't waste time. So I'm going to be doing that, but also I've got an acting job as well. I'm doing a film. I've got a fantastic part as a very strange character in a Welsh village coming up. So a real character part, which is fabulous. So it's looking good. Things are looking good.

Yeah. Fantastic. That sounds amazing. Well, I'm so delighted we could finally get a date that worked for us both. And we're talking today. Hopefully we'll talk again if you have another exhibition. I love going to see things and be in places that I wouldn't necessarily be because of my own discipline. I love that cross fertilization.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. But it all goes in. It all goes in, even if you. Even for stuff you don't like. That's what I'm always saying to people. Just keep going out, absorb all the art or read all the stuff you can, you know, particularly, obviously, if you find an interest that you're in, like, I'm saying, like Dylan Thomas at the moment. I've now read, I think, every Dylan Thomas poem there is because. Not because I'm an obsessive crazy person, but because. Well, maybe I am, but because that's my area of interest at the moment. And that will lead me somewhere else. You explore, you go out to galleries. I'm always looking at what's around me. And aren't I lucky? Aren't I lucky to have my body fit, healthy person touch wood? I'm touching everything.

Yeah.

And you never know when that's going to change. So you have to do it. You have to do it, because life is so short. Everybody says it, but as you get older, you go, oh, my God, if I'm not gonna do it now, I'm never gonna do it.

I tried to start doing it from before that point. I don't know why. I had some inkling that I knew I had lots of things I liked. I couldn't decide what I was gonna do.

Yes.

I set out on one path when it wasn't satisfying me anymore. Like you say, I wasn't obsessed with that one thing. I'd moved on something else. It's taken me a long time to allow myself to live creatively, but now that I am, I'm thinking, goodness, I've got a lot to pack in. I'm just gonna get on with it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, and that's the challenge. I think once you get to a certain age, you go, God, I've got so much more to do and not enough time to do it. How am I going to do it? And you have to. Well, I have to stop myself from standing in the room, just turning around and going, what first? And just go. I'll just pick one thing. It doesn't matter what it is one thing that you like and just move forward on it and enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, you don't have to keep pursuing it. You can stop and go, I took something out of that. I'm gonna stop that now. And I'm definitely going here now. It's okay. It's all okay.

I love that. What a brilliant thing to end on. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Now, my favorite type of conversation is one where we end up helping each other to understand what supports us creatively and sustains us in our lives. I loved to hear how Rebecca overcomes her fears at every stage as she heads into the unknown with any new discipline or project. And that she trusts that her work will find support from the right people. That it is an invitation to a conversation with no expectations attached. To follow her work or to get in touch. The links are in the show notes.

Now it's creative adventures time, and I promised to share some advice from celebrity agent turned bestselling author Melanie Cantor, on one of the most effective ways to feel supported. If you've listened to actor Martin Spendlove's episode in season two, you'll know I've been looking at ways to explore my passion for performance. I talked then about getting stuck trying to find a way to fit this aspect of my creativity in amongst my other creative projects. I think I may have found a way and will tell you all about my plans for 2026 in a moment. Things are shifting into the next gear for me now with the novel writing and I feel that sense of inner connection with the project which helps me to trust my instincts. If you think you may have heard this before, you're not wrong. It's all too easy to let our egos or others expectations become a barrier to making progress. And whilst at the moment at least I'm on the right track with my writing, the same can't be said for leaning into the performer in me. Yeah, sure, I did enter Bring the Drama, the BBC program hosted by Bill Bailey back in 2024. I wasn't shortlisted, just so you don't go wondering and I did have several months of voice training with a singing coach last year, but aside from recording the podcast and delivering my talk on the importance of play, I've not experienced the same drive to perform as I have had to write. That's not to say I don't enjoy making the podcast, of course. As a quick reminder, if a podcast is a creative adventure you'd like to begin, check out the links for Alitu, my podcast recording and editing software, and captivate my podcast hosting software. I really couldn't do it without these great, easy to use tools. Back to performing or more accurately, not performing and making plans to change that. I talked last time about taking on less projects this year and making more space to let my creative ideas breathe. I've settled on novel writing as the main project for the first half of the year. I've also decided on two soul enriching projects, one for the garden and one a bedroom makeover. But whilst I'm happy putting energy into these, there is a nagging feeling that I've been avoiding those opportunities to perform more, and that I need support to move it from being a longing to a doing. Awareness is half the battle, they say, and I realised that I needed to reconnect with Nikki the performer. Then I remembered the advice Melanie Cantor gave us. She said, "you have to believe in yourself and then others start to believe in you too." It struck me that the first form of support comes from within. If you listen deeply to yourself and ask, what do I really want to do? What's stopping me from taking action? And if the answer comes back as a lack of confidence, as it did for me, then you ask yourself, what would happen if you backed yourself? For me, Nikki, the performer replied, "You might be a little bit rusty, but you can do it because you've done it before. Many, many times." So with all the accountability I will get from saying this here now, I am dedicating the second half of the year to exploring ways to get back on stage and then doing just that. What creative passion are you sitting on? What's holding you back? Why not find support in the creative community by subscribing to the Bold Types on Substack or say hello and share your thoughts on Instagram. The links are in the show Notes. I honestly love to hear all about your progress on your creative adventures. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Creative Switch. If you enjoyed it, please leave a review over on podchaser.com and if you've got any questions, please let me know on Instagram @nikki_vallance. Tune in next time, where we'll be discussing the life affirming, confidence boosting and empowering nature of community singing and much more with choir leader extraordinaire Xenia Davis. Until then, keep creating and remember why survive when you can thrive?