Hello, and welcome to The Get.

I'm your host, Erica Seidel.

This season we examine the relationship between CMOs and Boards.

How can that relationship go from fraught to functional,

and maybe even to fantastic?

Today we hear from Elana Anderson.

She and I overlapped at Forrester way back in the day, and since then, she has had

an awesome career as a marketing leader - from Forrester to IBM, and then Unica.

Then she was CMO at Demandware, which became Salesforce Commerce Cloud.

After that, she was Chief Marketing and Customer Officer at Vidyo, the video

tech company, and then CMO at Veracode.

You'll hear from her on a bunch of interesting topics.

How to leverage Board members for your marketing initiatives - those independent

Board members with big names and impressive resumes can be marketing gold.

How to prepare for an interview with a Board member, and how

to set yourself up for joining Boards yourself and when to start.

Here we go.

Elana, thank you so much, and welcome to the show.

Thanks Erica.

I'm really excited to be with you here today.

Yeah, it's fun to chat after all these years post Forrester.

Yeah.

I would love to just get right into a really nitty gritty, tough

question for you, which is, you know, you've worked in a lot of settings.

You've led a lot of different marketing teams of different, you know, sizes.

Can you share a hard-won lesson you have had from interacting with a

Board, like something that really sticks out in your experience?

I have to say, I'm always happier when I'm talking

to the Board about numbers.

You know, topics like pipeline, deal flow, you know, numbers are

much more in the Board's lane and I know I can go toe-to-toe on topics

like MQLs and SQLs and pipeline conversion and bookings conversion.

So, but maybe not a hard-won lesson there.

So I think one, one thing that would always make me cringe was when my

CEO would ask me to do like a special update for the Board on brand.

Those would invariably turn out to be one of those sessions where investor

members of the Board might step out of the room immediately or, you

know, they'd dive into their phones or, you know, that sort of thing.

But the last time I had to do one of those sessions, I swore I was going to

figure out how to keep them engaged.

So after all they had, they had actually funded the, the

Board, the, the brand refresh.

So they had, they put a lot of money into it, so I figured I owed them a session.

So I made it interactive.

We were, we were doing this major refresh and we, I started

out with a little brand quiz.

So throwing out little tiny brand elements about very well-known brands that they

would, they would recognize and know and had them identify those brands.

And then I, I took those elements and compared and contrasted our old

versus new to illustrate some of the opportunities that we had, and

then, and then how the new brand was addressing those opportunities.

Now, so this engaged them.

It got them talking.

It turned some lights on.

I got them to know me and my quirky personality a bit more.

And it was great because that evening at the Board dinner,

several of them came up to me.

We talked a lot more.

I actually sat next to our chairman that night at dinner, and I,

I felt that it really opened a door for me, um, with that group.

So I, you know, I, I suppose in retrospect, it's a bit of a dull lesson,

you know, for a market, for a marketer, but, you know, the, the lesson is figure

out how to engage your audience, right?

Yeah.

Obviously Marketing 101, you know, you know that numbers

are gonna engage the Board, but if you have a topic that's short on numbers,

like a, a rebrand topic, how do you make that interesting and impactful?

I chose to make it interactive, right, and, and use brands that I knew they

had opinions on, or would be aware of to make a case for why we had to do

something, you know, about our own brand.

How exactly did you make it interactive and what was the aha

that they had as you worked with them?

Well, so I ki- kind of made it fun, right?

I mean, and recognize this isn't like an hour session, this is probably

right, 20 minutes, you know, 25 minutes at, at most that you have

to, you know, have this discussion.

So it has to be impactful and quick.

And so I put up little brand elements.

So a color or part of a tagline about a particular brand and had

them, well, who is this brand?

And when you can immediately identify who that brand is, that tells you something.

And, and then, and if I show you, well, who's this brand?

And you have no idea who that is and it's, and it's us, um, you know, that,

that starts to unveil, well, we have some opportunity or some work to do.

I see.

And then if you can compare and contrast, well,

here's how we're doing it today, whether it's a color change.

I mean, very often what is less interesting to a, a Board member than,

hey, we're changing our colors from, you know, from teal to, you know, purple.

But sometimes that does make a difference.

And so to make it impactful, you get to the opportunity and the whys behind that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

You know, if I'm gonna tell you my towering strengths

also, my towering strengths are not about the visual and the

color and that sort of thing.

So probably the most fearful I would ever be is having to get in front of a Board

and talk to, you know, here's, here's why we're making visual brand changes.

Right.

Right.

So that was pro- probably the hardest Board

session I've ever had to do.

You mentioned to me previously that you had success

getting value from the Board for your marketing initiatives.

So kind of incorporating them into your marketing initiatives.

So as opposed to just broadcasting out, kind of really integrating

Board stuff into your marketing.

Can you talk about that and share a few examples of that?

I've had the good fortune, um, and most people have this, you know,

you have independent Board members on your Board who are generally, uh, they're there

for a reason and they're, it's generally they're experts in your market segment,

or they have, they have some particular expertise and why they're on the Board.

And so I've had great success engaging those individuals

in my marketing activities.

And sometimes, you know, I think marketing execs are reluctant to go and make the

ask, and I've found that Board members are happy to participate and they've

been actually flattered to be asked.

At Demandware, we had, uh, a Board member by the name of Len Schlesinger.

Len is a Harvard Business School professor.

He was formerly the COO of Limited brands, which in his day

owned, um, Victoria's Secret.

We had a customer conference that was a very successful event, but one

of the things that we were trying to do was get more attendance from

an exec level audience, the true business buyer, the business sponsor.

So I asked Len to if he would co-chair or be the guest chair of an

invite-only executive track, and then host a, a half-day workshop for me.

And maybe that was a little gutsy, but he was thrilled, and

the only, only hesitation he had was, you know, the calendar.

So thankfully I asked very early.

He was available that day and he was more than happy to participate.

So, we were then marketing an executive track with a well-known business professor

to retail, you know, commerce executives.

It sold out easily.

We had our ideal profile customer at this event.

They also helped the registration of the overall general event because they

brought more team members to the event.

And the actual event was incredible.

I mean, we had Harvard Business School half-day workshop at the event.

It was, it was incredible.

I think you just need to make the ask.

And then, you know, for you as a marketer, particularly if you have,

you know, if you've been challenged to get in front of the Board, which I

think, you know, marketers may sometimes not feel that they have their airtime

with the Board, you know, it's a great way to establish communication.

Hmm.

Yeah.

It's a great way to connect with them outside of a Board meeting and-

Exactly.

And have them see you in action in another way.

Exactly.

Why do you think other CMOs don't think about doing this

and don't ask their Board members?

Like I've, I've interviewed a bunch of people for this, and you're the first

one who has mentioned this as an angle.

I think there's an intimidation factor.

I think, I think that, you know, in some cases people, CMOs may not feel

like they have the license to do it.

Um, they may not feel that they have the access.

Maybe the CEO's, you know, a gatekeeper.

So I'd say ask, you know, it's a, uh, I have not, never had a no for an answer.

You know, maybe I've had, well, I'm not available that day, but, uh, but

more often than not, Board members have been thrilled to, to participate.

How else have they participated?

Like, even in small ways, how else have you bought them into your, you know, kind

of day to day as a, as a marketing leader?

Yeah, so in my last company I had, uh, one of our Board

members was really expert sort of on the partner ecosystem, you know, and he was

more than happy to sit down with me and the partner team, you know, engage in

a detailed dialogue in that, you know.

More than happy to, um, cons, you know, be consultative with us in terms

of who, how we were prioritizing the relationships that we were building.

Did you ever tap a Board member to interview somebody?

Like say you were interviewing for a partner, marketing, I don't know, VP

on your team, would you have tapped the Board member to interview that person?

I haven't done that.

That's a good idea.

I have gotten referrals from Board members, certainly.

And also, um, now that you mentioned it, I've, you know, again, both ways,

if I've had a question, um, I've been in p-backed companies and another company

in the portfolio had already gone through something that we were going through, or

about to go through, and I was introduced to the CMO, you know, from that company

and had some great dialogue and lessons learned from, from that individual.

And I've had the same, you know, same vice versa.

You know, I've had other CMOs from the portfolio engage with me, you know, and,

and, uh, learn from my, you know, from, from the things that I've been through.

Yeah.

So it's a great, you know, it's a great, uh, the

Board can be a great networking, you know, venue, you know, way to meet

other people as well, avenue, yeah.

When, when you've seen marketers switch from one size company

to the next, and when you yourself, has- have made those switches, how

do you need to adapt your approach with working with the Board?

Well, so public Boards have a bit more formality.

You know, there's a formal structure.

They've got their audit committee, the governance committee, the comp committee.

You know, and that's a, that's a, a structure-

Yeah.

that they have to follow.

But, you know, honestly, I've found that in larger companies, so companies that,

you know, may be PE-backed, but they're of a size that could be public, or maybe

they're, you know, they're looking to go public and in the not-too-distant future,

they tend to behave like public companies.

And I've had that conversation at the exec team level.

Um, particularly if you're looking to go public, you wanna be

emulating those behaviors anyway.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so you might have even similar

committees on the Board and, uh, very similar, you know, structured

reporting process with the Board.

You know, similar process for how you're, you know, recording the minutes, you know,

for the Board and all of those things.

So, honestly, you know, if I compare of similar size public and private

companies, they operated very similarly, um, from a Board perspective.

Now there was all this reporting that we had to do as a public company.

That's not really the Board stuff, but there's all kinds of stuff you still

ha- you have to do as a marketing, you know, as a CMO that you don't

have to do in a private company.

But, uh, that's, you know, not the Board stuff.

You know, so the differences, I would say, you know, in terms of

interaction are, you know, I've, I've certainly seen smaller VC-backed

companies that are much more casual.

You know, I, I work now, I'm doing a lot of advisory work with smaller companies,

you know, and you may just have a couple of investors on the Board and the CEO and

the founder or something like that, and they may be more, they tend towards, some

are informal, some are very informal.

You know, it depends how many investors there are.

Typically, the more in, you know, if there are multiple investors, maybe they

have a more formal structure because you're, you know, dealing with, you

know, multiple, you know, you're dealing across multiple investor companies.

Um, so they may have a more formalized structure if it's very closely held,

one investor, you know, and a founder.

It can be very loosey-goosey.

So I, you know, I think it really depends on, on those factors.

Um, but when they're very large, I, they tend to be more similar than not.

If a CMO is at a company where the Board is one of these

loosey-goosey, you know, VC, you know, small VC, you know, situation, how

much would you recommend that they impose more formality and structure,

even if they're not asked for it?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I was at a company that wasn't that small actually, but it was, you know,

didn't have some of the formal structures that I have seen in other companies.

Um, for example, you know, we didn't have, here are what our corporate

objectives are for the year and here's how we're reporting on those

corporate objectives to the Board, you know, to the company, et cetera.

You know, so, I stepped in, in that case and, you know, worked across the

executive team to say, what are, you know, what are the corporate objectives?

Let's write them down.

Let's, you know, let's report them to the Board.

You know, let's report them to the company.

Let's, you know, define how we're going to measure them.

You know, I, I think if you see a gap like that, there is certainly an

opportunity to step in and fill that gap and, you know, in, in that particular

organization, you know, I do think it, the, the, the chairman in that case

of our Board did recognize, you know, that I was stepping in and doing that.

And, you know, um, he later engaged me in some strategic

initiatives for the company.

Now, is there a difference in terms of CMO interactions with

the Board as a company scales, and can you, can you talk through those?

You know, so, because a lot of, a lot of people are with these scale-ups that are

going from, I don't know, 10 million to 50 million, or 50 million to a 100 million

in ARI, or a 100 million to 500 million.

What have you seen when you're like, not going from one company to the next,

but, but within a company as it scales?

I think my interactions have shifted less given scale

and more given what the strategic priorities are at any given time.

You know, so if the strategic priority, you know, of the, of the business is

about modernizing the technology, it's likely that the Chief Product Officer,

you know, is gonna be spending the time on the hot seat, you know, with the

Board rather than, you know, rather than the Chief Marketing Officer.

Now, if the chief, uh, if, if the strategic priority on the other hand

is, is about growth or fending off the competition, or you know, some other

go-to-market topic, then you know, I know it's much more likely that

I'm gonna be in the hot seat or, you know, I and the, uh, the Chief Revenue

Officer are gonna be in the hot seat.

But I think, I do think, though, that regardless of the scale,

um, of the company, the CMO needs to focus on objectives, on

outcomes, on critical metrics.

You know, some, sometimes marketers are over enamored, you know,

about, what they do rather than the outcomes that they drive.

You know?

And I think particularly with the Board, you know, it's about the destination.

It's not about the journey.

The journey really only matters when there's something that significantly

new, you know, significantly new lessons that you learned along the way.

Whether those lessons were good lessons, lessons that you wanna repeat, you know,

or, or lessons that, you know, you tried something, you know, and it didn't work.

I think they only care about that journey when there's something major

that you learned along the way.

Why is it, do you think, that people get enamored of

the journey and not the destination?

It's very well said, by the way.

Well, you know, I, I think we, um, we do a lot in marketing.

There's a lot of stuff that happens under the covers in marketing.

And, um, at the end of the day, what does the Board really care about is,

well, how did that impact sales, right?

You know, and, and there's so much work that goes into it, you know, you wanna

get, you wanna talk about all that work that you did, but, uh, you know, I

think, frankly, we gotta get over that.

[Small chuckle] Yeah, other people on the podcast have talked about

this, uh, that, that a lot of marketers, especially maybe when they're early to

being CMOs, they will want to say, oh, this is how I've been spending my time.

Yeah.

As opposed to this is the output of it, and that's, that's it.

That's enough.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You know, marketing, it's a, um, there's a lot, you know, if you compare to the

other, you know, other functions, there's so many intricate pieces in, in marketing,

but I, I think that, you know, you're in the job as CMO, you know, because

they thought you knew how to do the job.

You know, so nobody needs to know all those, all, all those

little details, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And I think if you know how to net it out and talk

about, you know, again, the, the lessons learned are very interesting

out of the major things that you did that did or didn't, didn't work.

Mm-hmm.

That, that is interesting to a Board, I found, because those

are the things that they're gonna tell their other companies that, you

know, they're on the Boards of, you know, that, that does get interesting.

In addition to the outcomes.

So you've interviewed for a bunch of different CMO roles in the

course of your career, and presumably you've interviewed with Board members.

And I'm wondering, like, how, what, what should a uh, somebody

interviewing with a Board member for a CMO role, what should they expect?

How should they prepare?

Any thoughts there?

I think for every exec role I've had, I've interviewed

with one or more Board members.

You know, honestly I prepare for them just like I prepare for any, any interview.

I try to learn as much about the individual as possible.

I start with their LinkedIn profile.

Uh, some Board members particularly, uh, you know, older ones may

not have a LinkedIn profile, but uh, you know, I researched the

companies that they worked for.

You know, you can usually find a lot on Google or you know, if, you know, if they

be movers and things like that you can find a lot of information about people.

I look for articles.

So I, I try to get a, learn as much as I can about them personally and

how, you know, how they operate and you know, what they know.

You know, and then what I said before about outcomes is, is super important.

I don't expect to talk deep marketing, you know, shop talk

with a, with a Board member.

You know, I've, I've, uh, again, I've yet to find many who are deeply

interested, you know, in the details.

So I tend to focus on talking about strategy, um, strategy, the company,

um, the market, you know, the market trends, um, the competitive

trends, the competitive landscape.

Um, I talk about how I've moved the needle, you know, in, in other

companies, how I've aligned teams.

You know, and when I talk about teams, you know, it's how you've, how I've

aligned, you know, the marketing team, but not just the marketing team.

Because I think what's critical in an executive role is not just, you know,

how you manage your function, but how you work as a business executive, uh,

you know, across the organization, right?

And it's interesting, you're talking about going, like,

talking about how you manage across.

I always, I, I, I think of this, like, framework of different

types of management, right?

So there's managing up, down, you know, like people work for you, inward, across,

like across the organization, and then out, you know, like, like partners or

people like outside of the organization.

And in my experience, I've found that, you know, the best people are strong at

managing as many of those as possible.

And usually people have strengths in some areas and less in others.

And you're right, as a CMO, sometimes people make the

mistake of being too siloed in-

Yeah

in how they describe their experience.

And so I like that, that aspect of you as like the chief, kind of, diplomacy

officer or something like, you know, the chief shuttle diplomat within the company.

Yeah.

I think really reinforcing that point of, you know, don't just, particularly

with a Board member, don't just go sort of down the marketing silo.

Make sure you're focusing across, you know, across and out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now an interview is a two-way street, and you're right that the, the

strongest interviews are ones where you don't get intimidated and you're

having a peer-to-peer dialogue.

So a CMO is also looking for a company to join and wanting to make sure that that's

gonna be a place where they can flourish.

So how should they interview a Board?

Like what clues should they look for to know that a Board would be-

a Board member or, or, you know, a Board would be a, a, you know, a

good one to kind of sign up with?

Yeah, and I'm a, I'm also, uh, interviewing the Board

member, so to speak, to, you know, get a better sense of the company and the

culture and the opportunity, how much they believe in the company as well.

I always love to find out what they know about the market, the

competition, what they think the unique advantage of the company is.

And I think if they're able to answer those questions, that gives the incoming,

you know, CMO, uh, a sense of how strong the company's story resonates, right?

If, if you don't hear a crisp story around the unique advantage of the

company, then you, I've got some work to do, you know, on the messaging.

I also ask how I, I should expect to work with them.

You know, and if they have an interesting background, I go, I start right there

and ask about if they're willing to support those marketing activities.

So, you know, start early on that count.

That's great.

Now let me drill into something you said.

You wanna see how much they believe in the company.

How do you get at that?

Well, I think that's, that's where, you know, I'm

asking about their understanding of the market and the unique

advantage, you know, of the company.

So why, why is this company going to win?

What makes them unique?

Mm-hmm.

What is the outlook for the company?

You know, why, why is this company gonna win over competitor X, Y, Z?

If competitor X, Y, Z might be a leader, and you know, the company's not a le-

not a leader, you know, it gives, gi- gives me a sense of a, how much they

believe and also how strong the messaging for the company, for the business is.

Hmm.

And it also shows that you've done your homework on the other

competitors and you're, you're kind of coming up with a bit of a, like

a pre-baked perspective, right?

You're asking for their perspective, but it seems like you've done enough of

your homework to, to have your own, to start to have your own you on things.

The company, the market, the competitive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right, right, right.

Exactly.

Now, I know some people, when they prepare for a company- for, for an

interview, they do like a kind of cheat sheet, you know, kind of thing.

I'm remembering from business school, we all had these cheat sheets on

like, you know, five examples of, uh, you know, I don't know, increasing

revenue and, you know, three examples of competitive differentiation.

Like, would that be useful, do you think for somebody interviewing, for,

um, interviewing with a Board member?

It would.

Have I done it?

No, it's a great, it's a good advice.

Um, I, I, well, I, you know, that's, I do have my sort of little cheat sheets

of things that I've, I've, uh, how I've increased value at company A, company

B, company C, that sort of thing.

I do think it's a great, I, uh, a good idea.

I tend to be probably less structured, I suppose, in, in terms of how I

approach an interview like that.

You know, I do a lot of reading, but I don't, I don't come with a set of

notes, but, uh, but I do, you know, particularly if you're on video, which a

lot of the, uh, a lot of the interviews with Board members tend to be, you know,

it's a good, it's a good thing to have.

Right.

And it, but it's interesting cuz you can have your notes, it's good to

have the notes, right, and whether you're in person or on video.

But you don't wanna seem like you're reliant on your notes.

No.

Yeah.

You need to be able to have that.

And it's the same for interviewing for a CMO job when you're interviewing the CEO.

Absolutely.

Having a, being natural, having a se- seamless dialogue.

You know, not feeling nervous, you know, not, not appearing nervous.

Absolutely.

You know, you wanna be natural, you want it to flow, you know, certainly the larger

the company, if it's a public company, you know, if it's a public company, you're

likely, you know, gonna be a face of the business, you know, in many situations.

And, you know, for a CMO to be calm, cool, and collected, and,

you know, uh, in, in that kind of situation is incredibly important.

So you are now, um, in discussions with companies about Board

roles for yourself after having all these awesome CMO roles in different

companies and different experiences.

So for marketers who anticipate being in your shoes one day, you know, what

should they expect and, and what are you learning about, you know, joining a Board?

Well, so you should expect it to be a process.

It's gonna take a lot of time.

It's gonna take a lot of networking and a lot of time.

Unless you have an incredible stroke of luck, um, you're likely gonna start

with smaller companies, uh, private companies, you know, and then you'll

work your way towards larger private companies, public companies, um, someday.

You know, if, if you're, uh, you should consider, if you haven't already, you

should join a, consider joining an advisory Board now and add some of

that or, or more than one, add some of that experience to your profile.

You know, I also, you should start sooner than later.

If your growth path is towards Board work, then you should engage your

boss and your current Board to help you secure your first Board role now.

And in some companies, you know, that might be controversial.

Um, I was in a session a couple weeks ago, um, with Chris

Comparato, who's the CEO of Toast.

And you know, he was saying that, you know, several years ago, he, he didn't

want his execs to be on Boards, and now he's completely changed his mind,

um, because it's such great experience.

And, you know, I think back to companies that, you know, I've been at and, you

know, you do this annual survey every, every year and the individuals in the

company that tend to be least satisfied with their growth, um, their growth and

development are senior execs, because, you know, and I know I felt this way to some

extent too, like what's my growth plan?

I don't have one, you know?

I'm not gonna get promoted, you know, you know, I can take on more things in

special projects and always did that.

But you know, so I think for a lot of people in the executive suite, that

Board work is a great growth plan.

And so sitting down and working with your boss and talking about, well,

how do you, you know, how can you work together to secure that first Board role.

I wish I had been more aggressive about doing that myself.

I wish I had carved out more time to do that.

I didn't feel like I had the time, you know?

I regret that, regret that now, so I can't recommend that highly enough.

And there are also some great preparatory, um, programs out there, you know, to help,

particularly for DEI candidates, you know.

Um, if you're in Massachusetts, in the Boston area, Mass TLC has this great

program called the Board Ready Bootcamp.

I've sent folks who worked for me to it in the past, worked for me to it in the past.

Um, they run it twice a year.

Deloitte has a regional program that they run once a year.

You know, there's tons of lists and that sort of thing.

There's the Athena Alliance.

There's like, there's so many programs that, um, you know,

that are out there that, you know, to help you sort of prepare

yourself, um, for, for that future.

That's great.

And is branding yourself for Board any different than

branding yourself for a CMO role?

Well, you know, I think I, you know, I'm a firm believer in your

brand as your, you know, your, your brand.

Be authentic, be, you know, be yourself, be, you know, all those things.

But I do think it's very important when you're positioning yourself, you know,

I'll use that term instead of brand, when you're positioning yourself for Board

work, you know, you're shifting from, you know, as the CMO, you owned it, right?

You delivered it, you execute it.

You know, the big shift here to, to Board is, you know,

you're now in an advisory seat.

You know, you're now leveraging all that experience you have to advise.

You don't own it.

You can't tell companies what to do.

You can give examples.

You can make suggestions.

You can make connections.

Uh, you're advising.

I'm fortunate, you know, we worked at Forrester together as, as an analyst.

You know, I did a lot of advisory work, you know, for lots of companies,

you know, so I, I have a lot of that background, you know, in my history.

Um, so I'm fortunate, you know, it's very relevant to, to Board work.

I also think that it's important to, um, to target companies.

You don't wanna just try to be a Board member anywhere.

Um, you wanna try to target companies that are really relevant, you

know, for you, for your background.

So you know, for example, you know, if you have deep expertise in product-led

growth, then go and find a company that is maybe focused on an enterprise

sales motion, but they're trying to shift to product-led growth because

they really need your expertise, right?

They're not a product-led growth company today.

They're trying to make this shift.

So that expertise, you know, would be tremendously helpful to them.

That sort of thing may, you know, maybe it's a, you know, maybe it's an industry

expertise, you know, that sort of thing.

Maybe you're a known personality in their industry, you know, so you have

to figure out what your, you know, what your hook is, so to speak, if,

uh, you know, if you're, you know, gonna try to be an independent Board

member at a particular company.

Thank you so much for joining the show, Elana, this has

been fabulous speaking with you.

Likewise.

Yeah, really fun.

Thanks for, thanks for inviting me.

Now that you have heard from Elana, think about how you can

put your Board members to work as adjunct members of the marketing team.

Next time on The Get you'll hear from Sandra Lopez.

You'll hear about how to put your best foot forward when you interview with a

Board, about managing expectations with the Board on how long things take in

marketing, and about nonprofit Boards as a segue to for-profit Board work.

Don't miss it.

Thanks for listening to The Get.

I'm your host, Erica Seidel.

The Get is here to drive smart decisions around recruiting and

leadership in B2B SaaS marketing.

We explore the trends, tribulations, and triumphs of today's top

marketing leaders in B2B SaaS.

If you liked this episode, please share it.

For more about The Get, visit thegetpodcast.com.

To learn more about my executive search practice, which focuses on recruiting the

make-money marketing leaders rather than the make-it-pretty ones, follow me on

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