Kerry Part One

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there, and a very warm welcome to Season 5, Episode 41 of PeopleSoup. It's Ross McIntosh here.

[00:00:06] Kerry: But actually through my career as, as working as a psychologist, I've also found myself doing quite a lot of somatic training. I'm trained as a yoga teacher and different somatic therapies. And to my delight, it's become a both and. being able to weave together those different elements and polyvagal theory, which I really fell in love with that as actually, to me, it's a bridge between the body and the mind. and as you mentioned in the intro, I'm really passionate about, you know, how do we resource ourself in the face of challenge? So that's often the north star, which I'm following in my work.

[00:00:49] I always think kind of just getting deeper with the answers to that, but that's, that's always a guide for me is how can we be resourced and remember the resources that we have within us that are already there. How do we remind each other of that?

[00:01:04] Ross: Peasoopers, here's the first part of my chat with Kerry Cullen. Kerry is an embodiment coach, facilitator, and chartered psychologist. She's also an expert and innovator in polyvagal theory. In this episode, you'll get to know a bit more about Kerry.

[00:01:22] From her days growing up in Bury, Manchester, to settling in Ireland between Donegal and Dublin.

[00:01:28] For me, Kerry is a creative weaver, bringing different methodologies together to support people in coming home to themselves. You'll not only experience Kerry's warmth and openness, you'll hear her song choice, a tale from the cake shop, and the impact of a life altering diagnosis.

[00:01:48] [00:02:00] Now, for those of you who are new to PeopleSoup, welcome! Hi! hello, and a very warm welcome to the community. We are an award winning podcast Where we share evidence based behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun. Our mission is to unlock workplace potential with expert perspectives from contextual behavioral science.

[00:02:25] Let's just scoot over to the news desk, because reviews are in for our last episode, which was our chat about the Macbeths with Dr. Ben Askew. Dr. Aprilia West, who said, Yes, in another life I did some method actor training, and have noticed the impact between it and ACT.

[00:02:45] Very cool applications. Well, I absolutely agree, Aprilia, and thanks to everyone who listened, rated, and reviewed that episode. We'll shortly be launching the new PeopleSuit bookmark, and each review that's read out will receive one, wherever you are in the world. My dad, also known as Big G, is setting up the global distribution desk as I speak.

[00:03:08] So, Aprilia, you'll be the first to receive a bookmark, so please send us your full postal address, and we'll dispatch your bookmark as soon as they arrive from the printers.

[00:03:18] I think that's enough excitement for one episode, so, for now, get a brew on and have a listen to part one of my chat with Kerry Cullen.

[00:03:33] Kerry Cullen, welcome to PeopleSoup.

[00:03:35] Kerry: Thank you, Ross. It is a delight to be here and thank you for inviting me.

[00:03:40] Ross: Oh, well, I'm super happy to see you, because it feels a while since I've seen you. It's really, listeners, it's only two weeks, I think. But, we've been connecting quite frequently recently, so it's lovely to have you here.

[00:03:51] Kerry: Delighted to be here. I really am.

[00:03:54] Ross: So, Kerry, you'll be familiar, I have a research department. And they've, they've found out some stuff about [00:04:00] you. And, you'll know that they're not always 100 percent accurate. So, just get your ears peeled while I share this stuff and see whether they've got Got it right. So it says here, Kerry Cullen is a chartered psychologist with over 20 years experience. She's a highly experienced coach and group facilitator and has the gift of being an integrator and a weaver of different methodologies. How are we doing so far?

[00:04:24] Kerry: So far, so good.

[00:04:26] Ross: Excellent. And it's one of these methodologies that I'm particularly interested in today because Kerry has also studied the nervous system. She is one of the first people in Ireland to qualify as a consultant with the Polyvagal Institute in the States. At Deb Darner's request, along with Sandra Dunsmore, in 2022 she co designed and delivered the first polyvagal course for coaches. And it was the first course to be licensed to use Deb's material. lots of vigorous nodding there. Peace supers. So I think, I think we're on the right lines and there's more. Kerry has lots of commercial experience delivering cutting edge culture change projects with clients, including Schneider Electric, Bristol Myers Squibb, AIB, and IBEC. And through Seven Psychology at Work, Kerry has also worked with Google, Dropbox, and Deloitte. And Seven Psychology at Work is actually where me and Kerry met. hang on. There's a bit more. Kerry has also worked extensively in healthcare, facilitated several countrywide self-care training courses for nurses, obstetric staff and surgeons, and delivered a program in the Royal College of Surgeons for trainee doctors. also worked with Plan Ireland, the ILCU Foundation and the Irish Hospice Foundation. So what does Kerry do? Kerry focuses on supporting people to remember their resources as they face life's challenges by offering one to one sessions and bringing people together in circles and groups. She weaves together her experience in psychology. Embodiment, Neuroscience and Celtic [00:06:00] Mythology to stand taller in her gift of being an integrator and a weaver of different methodologies. she's also taken what I would call in act terms towards moves to let go of some aspects of her work. more space for stuff that matters. She now lives between Dublin and Donegal, her ancestral home, with her husband and three sons and a dog called Rosie. How's that sounding, Kerry?

[00:06:28] Kerry: Actually it's really relaxing me that we're doing it this way.

[00:06:31] It's great.

[00:06:32] I love

[00:06:33] it.

[00:06:33] Ross: Brilliant. Brilliant. Now, Kerry, the research department also came across something a bit more sketchy.

[00:06:40] Kerry: Ooh!

[00:06:41] Bring it on, Ross.

[00:06:42] Ross: they found out, you're a girl from Bury,

[00:06:43] Kerry: Yeah.

[00:06:44] Ross: and it's something that seems to suggest that you are once on the cusp of pop stardom.

[00:06:50] Kerry: Is that a flat?

[00:06:51] Ross: Well, I'm not sure if it's a fact, Kerry. You can tell us. So, it says, through a chance meeting with Jenny Frost, who grew up in Prestwich, in Bury, and went to St. Monica's High School, Kerry was invited to audition to join the line up of the legendary girl group, Atomic Kitten.

[00:07:09] Kerry: Oh, fantastic.

[00:07:11] Ross: It didn't happen, but I don't know if you can comment on that bit of the research. It's quite a sliding doors moment. Were you or were you not almost a kitten?

[00:07:20] Kerry: I would love to think I was almost a kitten, but I'm afraid in this area, no, I was not nearly a kitten, but I love to think that I could have been in a different life.

[00:07:34] Ross: Mmm, me too. And before, before we pressed record, PeeSupers, Carrie was telling me she'd been to a sing along event with sort of 80s music and

[00:07:45] it just made me think maybe the research department is true. Maybe they've nailed this.

[00:07:49] Kerry: Maybe I have an inner kitten waiting to come out, Ross.

[00:07:54] Ross: I like to think so, Carrie. Can you hold a tune?

[00:07:56] Kerry: Oh gosh, not very well now, to be [00:08:00] very honest. And I come from a family of singers. a tune as part of a sing along with lots of other people sing along to Mariah Carey. I can belt it out then.

[00:08:10] Ross: Excellent. I don't want it. Let's not go there. Let's not go there. And, Carrie, thanks so much. What I'd love to do is just unpack that a bit more, if we may. I'd love to ask how you've got to where you've got to today. Tell us a bit more about your career, maybe some pivotal moments in your life growing up, and let's just listen to find out a bit more about you.

[00:08:35] Kerry: well, I, I remember when I was choosing what I was going to do at university, and I remember at that time being very drawn towards psychology and then also to what was no more of the time as alternative therapies, so therapies about the body and understanding the body. So I remember choosing psychology and it feeling very much like an either or at that time that it was going to be one or the other.

[00:09:04] But actually through my career as, as working as a psychologist, I've also found myself doing quite a lot of somatic training. I'm trained as a yoga teacher and different somatic therapies. And to my delight, it's become a both and. being able to weave together those different elements and polyvagal theory, which I know we're going to talk about in more detail.

[00:09:31] I really fell in love with that as actually, to me, it's a bridge between the body and the mind. and as you mentioned in the intro, I'm really passionate about, you know, how do we resource ourself in the face of challenge? So that's often the north star, which I'm following in my work. And that's, that's led me to various trainings.

[00:09:52] I always think kind of just getting deeper with the answers to that, but that's, that's always a guide for me is how can we be resourced [00:10:00] and remember the resources that we have within us that are already there. How do we remind each other of that?

[00:10:07] Ross: I love the way that you talk about how can we remind ourselves and then support each other to maybe flag those or support them

[00:10:15] in finding themselves.

[00:10:17] Kerry: Yeah,

[00:10:18] Ross: Because I think it's, it's very human for us to just feel Adrift, disconnected, Non resourced.

[00:10:27] Kerry: yeah, absolutely. And in fact, I love in Celtic mythology talks about that being lost is part of the human journey. And, you know, that there are always times where we do feel very lost. And, you know, we can be just, they talk a lot about spirals, that we can be just around the corner from spiraling back to more of who we really are.

[00:10:51] So we can feel really lost, but actually we're, we're very close to coming home to ourselves. So I love that notion that, you know, at times when we do feel lost, we're on the right track. It's part of the process.

[00:11:03] Ross: Oh gosh, Kerry, I love the language you use about spiraling back, Cause it, you make things, for me, one of the things you do is make things so accessible, And, relatable for me in my life. So you talked about how you were choosing your kind of options, but wonder if you could go back. What was Kerry like at school? Was school in Bury?

[00:11:26] And was It St.

[00:11:27] Monica's?

[00:11:28] Kerry: don't know, but St Monica's was a sister school. You see, if I'd gone to St Monica's, maybe that could have happened. But I went to St Gabriel's in Bury. so what was I like? Well, I'm the oldest of four children. And if I'm honest, I'd say, you know, I was quite fun loving as a teenager and then kind of between the ages of 16 and 18, I'd say I became quite serious as, as, as a teen and at the time my mum wasn't very well.

[00:11:59] I think [00:12:00] I really kind of stepped in to be this, you know, kind of a young adult taking care and trying to help out in the home. Yeah, and then a particular point I remember I was then going to go to Canada when I was 18 and do voluntary work, but that all fell through. So I had a moment in life around 18 where I was very lost.

[00:12:22] And I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And then, uh, my cousin was moving back to Donegal, to Buncranagh, a very rural part in Ireland. I said, why don't you come with me, you know? So I remember being this teenager of, oh, you know, that doesn't particularly sound like very inviting. You know, I was a real city kid at the time, but ended up going with her.

[00:12:44] And actually it was a real turning point in my life where. I discovered aspects of myself that I didn't know was lost. And I really, I really felt so at home living in the culture. and yeah, it's moving to think about it because I didn't realise before I went just how much it would mean to me. it changed the trajectory of my life.

[00:13:06] Ross: Gosh, that's amazing. So I have to think about the decisions we make in life and the implications of those decisions and how. How connected do you feel? What was that sense of connection like? Is it, is it something physical looking back on it? Is it just thinking, I'm home?

[00:13:22] Kerry: yeah, it's just this, this sense of just feeling really at home, and it was a complete surprise. So as I say, I kind of went, really to kind of fill a gap for a while, you know, Yeah. And I just, yeah, I just remember feeling at home in the culture with the people and it's hard to describe, but it, yeah, it was like a deep resonance of, yeah, this is, this is home.

[00:13:47] Ross: And by this point were you studying or is this when you were applying to study

[00:13:53] Kerry: was when I was applying. So I, so I'd taken this year out to go to Canada, which fell through. So then I spent [00:14:00] the year then I remember I was selling potatoes and then working Working in a hotel as a very bad waitress, Ross. I do actually remember dropping potato on some poor man's head as I was serving a dinner during a wedding.

[00:14:17] I was not a good waitress. I have a poor history in food services. I also sold a plastic cake once when I was a teenager.

[00:14:27] Ross: Oh, come on, I've got to ask, how come you sold a plastic cake?

[00:14:31] Kerry: Well, I was working in a bakery in Bury, so this is going back now before I moved over to Ireland, and it was actually Christmas Eve, and I was dressed as a bear,

[00:14:44] Ross: Of course

[00:14:45] Kerry: and of course I was, and my manager was dressed actually as a little girl in like Bo Peep, so you can picture this scene, and she comes into the shop and she starts screaming, and she says who has sold the Plastic cake out of the window and I started laughing because I didn't know we had a plastic cake So I thought this was really funny Then she started to describe the plastic cake as who sold the plastic chocolate log Then I had this memory of selling this chocolate log, which actually felt quite light So I then had to own up that it was me that had sold Plastic chocolate log out of the window on Christmas Eve dressed as a bear

[00:15:29] Ross: Wow. I asked for pivotal moments, that feels like a pivotal moment. And were there repercussions? Did someone come in and complain saying it was difficult to carve or a bit chewy?

[00:15:41] Kerry: If I'm honest, it was actually my last day of working there.

[00:15:44] Ross: Funny that.

[00:15:46] Kerry: I think it could have been anyway.

[00:15:50] Ross: Wow. So if by any extreme, uber coincidence, someone's, someone's listening in from Barry who

[00:15:57] remembers one Christmas when they had a [00:16:00] plastic chocolate log,

[00:16:01] Kerry: yeah,

[00:16:02] Ross: do get in touch, you can complain directly to Kerry.

[00:16:06] Kerry: complained directly. And I will apologise. So every year now, Ross, in our family, a chocolate log is bought to remind me of this.

[00:16:17] Ross: Yeah, it's, it's sort of custom.

[00:16:20] Kerry: Yes.

[00:16:21] Ross: I love that. I love those family customs and things that, Godown in the Family Chronicle, yeah. so where did you do your studies? Where did you study psychology?

[00:16:30] Kerry: So I studied psychology at the University of Ulster in Coleraine. what I haven't mentioned, my family are from Donegal. So when I moved over, I was moving back to where my dad is from and I've loads of cousins and aunties in the area. So I studied then about an hour and a half from there, which meant I could travel back and forth.

[00:16:49] So I studied there and then did my masters over in Manchester, in UMIST. And, and in between had a, a, had a year of, working in market research and got to travel in the Caribbean for a year, managing research projects over there. So that was a really interesting time of life.

[00:17:09] Ross: Wow,

[00:17:10] Kerry: Yeah, so it was actually, it was, I think it was the third year of college, it was like a year placement, so I landed this placement and that's what it involved,

[00:17:19] Ross: So it strikes me you're someone who's prepared to take a bit of a punt, go on an adventure.

[00:17:26] Kerry: Yeah, I, I suppose so. Yeah.

[00:17:30] Ross: Because there was Canada almost.

[00:17:32] Kerry: Almost. Yeah. Almost got there. almost.

[00:17:36] Ross: Crikey. So tell us a bit more, if you will, Kerry, about, about your career. What did you do after you'd finished at Ulster and UMIST? How did you get into sort of coaching and organizational work?

[00:17:49] Kerry: So finished at UMT and then moved back. Well, I'd just been in, in Manchester for the year, so then I came back and lived in Dublin and I worked [00:18:00] with an organizational psychology firm. as a, as a psychologist with them, and if I'm honest, Ross, I, I lasted a year

[00:18:08] and I'd always had a really strong drive about running my own business or working for myself. And had always been a strong drive. So I worked in the, in the firm for about a year and then around that time. I'd had some news which was one of those moments, a news about um, somebody I really cared about and it was one of those moments that makes you think, gosh life is really short, and, you know, if we don't have very long, what do I really want to do?

[00:18:38] So actually at that point, I, resigned from my position and actually went travelling for a while. So I travelled to Australia for a while and I came back and I actually set up my own consultancy and I look back now, Ross, and I think it's, it's quite amusing because I was quite young. And I was just very lucky because I remember I'd landed a big project and this wonderful professor of mine from UMIST worked with me on the project, and Dr.

[00:19:08] Mike Smith, who is just such a wonderful man. So I was really lucky that I, I was working for myself, but yet under the supervision and guidance of Mike Smith, so I was lucky how things worked out. So I do, I look back and laugh at myself and think, gosh, that was a really interesting decision that you made.

[00:19:27] Ross: But I, I love it that I see that boldness. I see creativity from you. And I also see You're just pausing to see what the heck really matters to me. When you, when you

[00:19:38] had that realisation that you thought, well, our time here is quite short really, what do I want to

[00:19:43] do that matters?

[00:19:45] Kerry: Yeah. And I would say that Those kind of things in life that make you stop and, and question that have definitely have led to moments of me deepening or, or the next career move that I make has [00:20:00] definitely been informed by that, because if I fast forward from that. I remember then in my early 30s, so I'd, I'd built up my consultancy practice and I was doing projects that I was very interested in and you know, I was enjoying my work and also, I had also trained as a coach and I also had two small boys at this stage and I remember that I'd I remember that I'd I was training to be a yoga teacher and in that training you're really connecting in with yourself and that sense of connection and asking, you know, yeah asking questions And I remember on one of the yoga weekends going to my room to reflect and this is the truth now I had this thought and I thought I really need somebody really good like a mother to look after the boys so I can do this amazing work.

[00:20:55] And I got this bolt up through my body and it was like, yeah, that's you.

[00:20:59] Ross: Wow.

[00:21:01] Kerry: Yeah. So that was one of those moments. And I just remember it so clearly. I, I was off track. You know, there are many people that work and have children and, and get a really good balance. But at the time I hadn't, I was off track. And that was one of those moments that was like that jolt of, you know, well, what really matters.

[00:21:24] You know, and that really changed things for me. I actually left that weekend. And in fact, I did actually wrap up my business for a couple of years and step back and sat with that question, what really matters and what do I really want to bring in, in my work? what can I really bring?

[00:21:44] What are really my gifts? So it was at that that stage in my life when I really looked at that weaving in the somatic with the coaching work and and at the same time taking time out to be with the boys as well.

[00:21:59] Ross: [00:22:00] Hmm. Really intrigued and curious about that weaving of the somatic in with the rest of your work because more and more in the use of act in my practice it's about noticing things in our body. Our body can be a refuge and a radar and the more we can bring people's attention to what's going on there I think. I think the better in the workplace, but I'm leaping ahead a bit. I'm talking about body in the workplace, but I still want to find out a bit more about these pivotal moments, if I may. Now, I know there's another moment in there, which was to do with a medical diagnosis for yourself. I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing that with us, Kerry.

[00:22:42] Kerry: yeah, so it's about five years ago now when I was experiencing some symptoms, which led my doctor to send me for an MRI. And so I'd gone for my MRI and then I got a call to meet with a neurosurgeon and You know it's interesting looking back because you know when you're asked to go and meet with a neurosurgeon it should be a bit of a flag that there could be something going on.

[00:23:08] I do remember thinking well that's a bit odd, but I'm sure everything's absolutely fine you know. So I went for this appointment with this lovely man, this neurosurgeon. And, and even actually when I went in, he said, Oh, and is your, your husband isn't with you today and still didn't see the flag, you know, so I can know he's at work today.

[00:23:28] And, you know, so anyway, we sit down and then he breaks it to me that from my recent MRI, that it looks to him like I need to have brain surgery. And the brain surgery, which he felt that I needed, was quite complex and actually ran quite a lot of risks in terms of bodily function after I recovered. So that was definitely one of those pivotal moments that has a very clear, you know, before [00:24:00] and after it was, quite a profound thing.

[00:24:04] And, and I remember coming away and it really did, it had another change in my life in terms of the, the results of that. And at the time I was actually studying polyvagal theory. And it really helped me navigate working with this diagnosis because actually what I found for a lot of the time was actually felt very overwhelming and there was a lot of fear around it and you know in truth fear in case I would die and if you know and who would look after the boys if I wasn't there to parent them.

[00:24:42] These kind of thoughts that are very overwhelming to deal with. And then in polyvagal terms, that really helped me have a framework to understand what I was experiencing, and it really helped me navigate. working through this time in life. So there's that, there's that sense of, you know, that overwhelm.

[00:25:05] And it also gave me a map for how to navigate this to look at different possibilities.

[00:25:12] Ross: now Kerry, I know that map helped you have a conversation with the, the surgeon, with the consultant that changed direction of things slightly.

[00:25:24] I wonder if you could just unpack that for us.

[00:25:26] Kerry: Yeah. So, you know, thinking about the map in Polyvagal, it's, it's when we're feeling safe and connected that we can access our sense of curiosity and collaboration. So with that diagnosis and the overwhelm that comes with it, there is that sense of loss of agency and, and sitting with a lot of fear with that.

[00:25:54] But in working with the map, it helped me be able to [00:26:00] cultivate that sense of curiosity and collaboration by bringing in more cues of safety and those cues of safety were actually from the people who loved me and who were around me that were able to kind of hold me in, in that fear, I guess. so through that sense of connection.

[00:26:22] I was able to have these moments, I would say, of curiosity of, well actually, you know, maybe it doesn't have to be brain surgery. And I remember going back to my consultant and us sat together and really focusing on bringing that sense of calmness and regulation into our conversation. And, and I asked him and said, you know, would it be possible to get a second opinion outside of the jurisdiction?

[00:26:54] And it's really moving when I think about it, because I remember his state changing as well. And him also finding a sense of curiosity.

[00:27:03] Ross: Hmm.

[00:27:04] Kerry: And then he suggested that we could send my slides over to one of the top neurosurgeons in America, which he did, and the suggestion came back not to do brain surgery.

[00:27:18] Ross: Wow. My goodness, and I love that the, you'll know that we've spoken about it before, that my dad talks a lot about, sort of synchronicity, he calls it, and that this diagnosis came when you were already studying polyvagal, so you're actually putting polyvagal into practice, and if I've got it right, is it by noticing the resources around you that would help you with it? Reach that place of curiosity and, and calm. Is that right?

[00:27:53] Kerry: Yeah, noticing the resources and also noticing where [00:28:00] you are in your nervous system, and by being able to stand back and notice. It's de shaming is actually the word that is used quite a lot with polyvagal. It's like that you can notice where you are and it gives you a context to be able to understand that.

[00:28:17] Ross: Hmm. So it's like that noticing without judgment.

[00:28:21] Kerry: That's it. Noticing without judgment with compassion.

[00:28:25] Ross: Got you. And it's like in, in act terms, we talk about noticing with curiosity and kindness and that's kindness to people around you, but also kindness to yourself. What kind of blows my mind is that I think many of us as humans will have a diagnosis like that and go, Okay, so another human in a white coat is telling me this, so it must be true. But using Polyvagal, it allowed you to be curious and more open. And also to involve him, the surgeon, in that collaborative piece.

[00:29:00] Spoons

[00:29:00] Ross: So Kerry, there's a question I ask all my guests, and it's for a song choice. And the idea is that this is a song that would announce your arrival in a room, for the next few weeks slash months. So when you're going to the supermarket, when you arrive back in your house with all those boys. It's a song that would just say, hey, Kerry's here. So what, what would that song be for you?

[00:29:23] Kerry: It's such an interesting question, this Ross. This is a hard question. It's a really hard question. there are so many songs that I could choose from, the one that I'm finding that I'm really gravitating to at the moment is a song by Jacob Collier and it's called Little Blue. And it's a particular version of it, which is, it's, it's the mahogany sessions it's called.

[00:29:50] And why I like this song, there's something, there's something very soothing in when I listen to it. And the sentiment, some of the words are don't be afraid of the [00:30:00] dark. And there's a real sentiment of, of people being together and, and light coming in. And I just, it's a song that I find when I listen to it, it's like a holding that can let me touch into some heartbreak in terms of what's going on in the world and it's like a glimmer of light.

[00:30:22] Ross: Beautiful. A glimmer of light. I love that and we'll talk more about that word glimmers in part two of our chat where we start to unpack polyvagal, but PSupers, I'm so excited to have Kerry here because the possibilities of combining polyvagal with ACT to enhance our skills of noticing are there to be noticed and brought to organizations.

[00:30:50] So we're going to speak a bit more about that in

[00:30:52] part two. That's it, p supers. Part one of my chat with Kerry in the bag. Hold on to your hats because next week we'll be learning all about polyvagal theory with Kerry. Now, PSupers, we need your help. You can support us and help us reach more people with this behavioral science, this stuff that could be useful. So

[00:31:17] you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, we'd love you to do three things.

[00:31:21] Ross: Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe and give us a five star review, whatever platform you're on.

[00:31:29] Number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This would all help us reach more people and make some noise with stuff that could be useful. We'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at peoplesoup. pod at gmail. com. On X, formerly known as Twitter, we are at peoplesouppod. on the gram, known as insta, We are at People. Soup and on Facebook we are at PeopleSoupPod. You can also drop us a review or get in touch using a voice note on WhatsApp.

[00:31:57] Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex [00:32:00] Engelberg for his vocals. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves, peace supers, and bye for now.

[00:32:10] Kerry: yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm really enjoying it, Ross. You know, you've, you've, you've just got such a, a lovely presence and you're very co regulated. So,