Emily: It's like, but why didn't you already know your neighbors?
Emily: Why did you not already know your neighbors? Like, please be honest about that.
Emily: You know, and then while at the same time, it's like we have this loneliness epidemic.
Emily: Talk to your neighbors. Talk to the people around you. Put the phones down. You know what I mean?
Danny: Hi, and welcome to 5 Random Questions, the show with unexpected questions
Danny: and unfiltered answers.
Danny: I'm your host, Danny Brown. And each week, I'll be asking my guests five questions
Danny: created by a random question generator.
Danny: The guest has no idea what the questions are, and neither do I,
Danny: which means this could go either way.
Danny: So sit back, relax, and let's dive into this week's episode.
Danny: Today's guest is Emily Williams. Emily is a Webby, Signal, and Anthem award-winning
Danny: podcast host and former Executive Director of the Arcus Centre for Social Justice Leadership.
Danny: A gender studies scholar and global advocate for social justice,
Danny: Emily has worked with communities in more than 20 countries and co-founded the
Danny: Social Justice Initiative at the University of Illinois at Chicago.
Danny: Her work includes contributing to a global treaty adopted by the United Nations
Danny: and decades of leadership in advancing equity, gender justice,
Danny: and human rights in the US and beyond.
Danny: So, Emily, welcome to 5 Random Questions.
Emily: Thank you, Danny. I'm so excited to be here.
Danny: I'm excited to have you. And just going over your bio there in the introduction,
Danny: it's an incredibly impressive list of achievements and
Danny: reading on your website you previously worked
Danny: you know at a normal sort of 9-5 job but you mentioned it's like a really stifling
Danny: and unhealthy environment until you left and started to forge your own path
Danny: so I'm curious was that the push that led you to where you are today was it
Danny: like the environment that put you on that path for part of what you campaigned for now?
Emily: Interesting. Thank you. And thank you, Danny. I'm really excited to be here.
Emily: You know, I would say it's not that...
Emily: That position in particular that's gotten me to this path, I have noticed while
Emily: being on this path that women of color experience a lot of hostility and aggression in the workplace.
Emily: And there's plenty of research to support this, that women of color and Black
Emily: women in particular are the most harassed group in the workplace.
Emily: And so it's an area that is not often focused on.
Emily: And because I am someone who has a very strong sense of justice,
Emily: someone who has a lot of experience advocating for justice, I also know that
Emily: that then means that I need to advocate for justice in the workplace for myself and for others.
Danny: And I'd imagine, I don't live in the US and I'm of the stereotypical,
Danny: very privileged position of being a middle-page white guy.
Danny: I would imagine with changes at the government level, so different leaders come in.
Danny: So obviously you have Democrat, Republican, Republican, Democrat,
Danny: et cetera, and different leadership approaches, if you like.
Danny: How does that impact your work and what you're doing when you've got swing from
Danny: up here to down here and all the things in between?
Emily: Yeah, yeah, that's a really great question. Who's in office matters a lot for the work that I do.
Emily: You know, when we have someone who is really promoting, you know,
Emily: policies that make life more livable for people that, you know,
Emily: honor the integrity of all human lives, right?
Emily: My work is much easier when we have an administration who is hostile to other
Emily: human beings and who seeks to,
Emily: sow division and creates harmful policies makes my life well my work a lot more difficult and uh.
Emily: You know, that's a problem because, you know, number one, I think we're seeing
Emily: that the majority of Americans do not want these kinds of hostile,
Emily: harmful policies that we're seeing more of right now.
Emily: And actually, you know, the policies around or the emphasis on diversity,
Emily: equity and inclusion, respecting human rights, ending war, those policies,
Emily: you know, have been quite popular, actually.
Emily: And we see that now even with the election of Zoran Mamdani and across the country
Emily: where elected officials are trying to have these policies that represent a people
Emily: first mentality and a profit sometime later mentality, right?
Emily: Which we also have seen here in Chicago just recently with the city budget and
Emily: the mayor, you know, wanting to tax the largest corporations so that we could have,
Emily: you know, more funds to support the people who live in Chicago.
Danny: It is interesting. I'm not very well versed. I should say not versed. That's the wrong word.
Danny: I'm completely not very well versed in politics and, you know,
Danny: policies, etc. My friend in Toronto, Sam, really well, he studied it for years as well.
Danny: And it's always interesting to look at how different countries and governments, etc., approach things.
Danny: I know one of the big things here in Canada, not to get too political because
Danny: I do try to keep away from that.
Danny: One of the big things here in Canada is UBI, Universal Basic Income.
Danny: Do you feel that's something that maybe the US and other countries that haven't
Danny: adopted it may be thinking more of now as, you know, the world changes, I guess?
Emily: I don't know that governments are thinking about that so much,
Emily: but I know that activists are.
Emily: And especially as we see, you know, kind of this rise of artificial intelligence
Emily: and, you know, the predictions that AI is going to take over,
Emily: you know, so many jobs in the next, you know, one to three years.
Emily: Well, then the question remains, if a large sector of society is going to get
Emily: pushed out of the workforce, how will they then meet their basic needs if they're
Emily: not able to work for wages?
Emily: So that then pushes us into this conversation about universal basic income.
Emily: And here in Chicago, some places in Michigan and elsewhere in the U.S.,
Emily: there are some really interesting pilot programs around basic income.
Emily: And it's not surprising to someone like me and probably not to you either, Danny,
Emily: they work really well, right? Imagine that, you know, a family,
Emily: you know, who was previously low income can depend on having even $500 to $1,000
Emily: a month, and that they can actually plan to meet the needs of their family, right?
Emily: So I think that, you know, along as AI continues to rapidly advance,
Emily: I think that societies are going to be pushed into this conversation around
Emily: universal basic income.
Danny: Yeah, it'll be interesting to watch. I know when the lockdown happened,
Danny: the pandemic was in its prime, for want of a better word.
Danny: The Canadian government gave an amount of X amount of $1,000 per month to people
Danny: that needed it to top up income, etc.
Danny: And that made a huge difference. That kept so many families afloat and so many
Danny: houses not going under the hammer for auction, etc.
Danny: So I feel that there needs to be something like that for sure.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just another form of stimulus, right,
Emily: of stimulating the economy, of bolstering the economy, really.
Emily: So we can start, you know, this goes back to the people first policies.
Emily: I think, Dani, honestly, I mean, I'm an optimist. I'm also a realist.
Emily: I think it's only a matter of time before we're seeing many more of these kinds
Emily: of policies that are much more humane, that are actually supporting people.
Emily: You know, at least here in the U.S., and I know that our policies aren't isolated
Emily: to, you know, the landmass of the United States.
Emily: I think we have at least a tough year, a few more tough months.
Emily: But after that, I think we're going to see much more humane,
Emily: much more just policies and approaches to governing.
Danny: Well, fingers crossed. I will. I'm 100% with you on that. Fingers crossed.
Danny: I'm crossing toes in hell. But yeah, I know we shall get you a wee,
Danny: well not wee, I'm not a royal wee I shall definitely get you back in the show,
Danny: we'll have a look at, you know Let's revisit this in say two,
Danny: three years time and see how things panned out Yeah
Danny: In the meantime though, I'm going to switch lanes and bring you into the 5 Random Questions
Danny: hot seat Are we ready for this Emily?
Emily: Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready Alrighty.
Danny: Let's bring up the random question generator
Danny: Okay. Yeah, I like this as a one to start, actually, with giving your background, actually.
Danny: So, Emily, question number one. Do you believe people are inherently good?
Emily: This might be controversial, Dani, but I do not. I do not believe people are inherently good. No.
Emily: I believe that there are some people who are good and great and super well-intentioned,
Emily: and I believe that there are some people who are not well-intentioned.
Emily: In fact, they are very malicious and have bad intent. I believe that.
Emily: I mean, I think, you know, I got asked a question similar to this in an interview a few months back.
Emily: But, you know, it's hard to believe that, you know, for instance,
Emily: what we're seeing play out here in the U.S.
Emily: That, you know, we could cause so much harm and to believe that the people who
Emily: are doing this repeatedly time and time again are inherently good.
Emily: And so I don't think, you know, I said earlier, I'm an optimist, but I'm also a realist.
Emily: I don't think there's anything wrong with that, right? I think it is okay.
Emily: I think we have to actually be able to prepare ourselves to say,
Emily: there are some people who have really bad intentions and we need to know that
Emily: so that we can navigate this life in a realistic way and in a healthy way.
Emily: Because I think when we believe that everyone is good, then people aren't held accountable.
Emily: You know, I think that's sometimes where we see things like toxic positivity
Emily: having a really negative impact, right?
Emily: It's like, no, some people are not good. Some things are really harmful.
Emily: There are some really negative things in the world and we have to be able to
Emily: address them so that we can come up with solutions, right?
Danny: It's interesting. As we recorded this on Thursday, January 8th,
Danny: the latest episode just dropped earlier today.
Danny: My guest on that, Rob Lynch, one of the questions he had was about...
Danny: It was a similar kind of question, but it was around about being good and bad.
Danny: And does power come from, does toxicity and power, et cetera,
Danny: come from if you have money early on or you work hard and you come from poverty
Danny: or not having a lot of money to start with.
Danny: So you work hard and you understand empathy and what it takes to be a good person,
Danny: show kindness, et cetera. do you feel sometimes that to your point that inherently
Danny: good is not in everyone do you think that sometimes comes from
Danny: background of how being raised you know and what obviously you know was there
Danny: money and power involved where you basically had anything you want so you didn't
Danny: really understand what it was like to be kind to others that were looking to
Danny: help you if that makes sense yeah
Emily: No I think that's a really interesting question you know this notion that like
Emily: well someone has early trauma you know and then that impacts their behavior
Emily: and the harm that they cause as an adult you know how do we understand that?
Emily: Or how do we consider that when we consider a person's actions?
Emily: And I do think, absolutely, childhood trauma or adversity, I think that certainly
Emily: has a lot to do with, or it certainly informs a person's behavior throughout
Emily: their life and into adulthood.
Emily: And people are at various stages of healing or not healing at any given time.
Emily: And at the same time, it cannot excuse any harm that's done, right?
Emily: So I think that we have to, you know, have create more spaces for people to
Emily: heal, to normalize talking about these kinds of things, to normalize like a healing process.
Emily: I mean, you know, really, it's only been in the last decade,
Emily: decade and a half, that therapy has really become more in the mainstream,
Emily: more normalized, right?
Emily: And some people are just starting to dip their toe into that world.
Emily: And Some have it, you know?
Emily: And so I think we also, and this is where, you know, we want to talk about like
Emily: narcissists or sociopaths, all these things.
Emily: Often there is a root cause of childhood trauma, right? Right.
Emily: But I think we also need to have, you know, some really well-defined points
Emily: of accountability, right?
Emily: So, Dani, here's like a, this is like one thing I'm thinking about, right?
Emily: You know, what has, I mean, we've all done things that, you know,
Emily: probably, you know, maybe our younger selves wouldn't stand by now,
Emily: or maybe we did things unintentionally that had a negative impact, right?
Emily: And, you know, when I think about like what causes people to change,
Emily: is it that someone was coddling you and said, I know that you're a great person.
Emily: You didn't mean it. And you had all these things.
Emily: Or was it the times when you had to face consequences for that negative behavior?
Emily: I mean, what causes change, right?
Emily: And I would say that more often than not, it's the consequences that create change, right?
Emily: And so, you know, when we see some of these, you know,
Emily: very powerful, very wealthy people who are creating harm,
Emily: even when they've had childhood trauma or childhood adversity,
Emily: part of the reason why they continue to create that harm is because they don't
Emily: have significant enough consequences right for their actions so i do believe
Emily: in compassion i do believe in empathy i also believe in accountability and consequences
Emily: uh and i believe in in ending harm that's.
Danny: A really important point i know um there's a lot of talk obviously about you
Danny: know helicopter parenting uh And it's my wife and I, we've got two kids, they're both teens now.
Danny: And it was always hard to, how far do you go to protect, but also how far do
Danny: you go to let them go on their own to understand, well, what you did was bad and this is why.
Danny: And then also make sure that they learn, you know, without pushing back.
Danny: Because, you know, as kids get older, the more a parent tells them we do one
Danny: thing, they'll push back and that.
Danny: So do you feel like not enough accountability happens at the family level And
Danny: this is probably simplifying it.
Danny: I apologise to anybody that feels that. I do apologise.
Danny: Do you feel sometimes families, educators, etc. have more...
Danny: Or should have more allowance to show accountability.
Danny: Because sometimes, you know, it's harder to discipline kids.
Danny: Obviously, you don't want to strike kids or anything.
Danny: But do you know what I'm trying to say? I feel like I'm struggling here.
Danny: I don't want to simplify it.
Emily: Yeah, no, I think I'm picking up what you're putting down. And one thing that
Emily: I've, I think it's a generational shift.
Emily: You know, I think about some of the ways that I was raised.
Emily: You know, tough love is a thing. You know, and I, and it was the thing that,
Emily: you know, we had rules, we had consequences, you know, we had high standards
Emily: and expectations for how we behave and how we treated one another and ourselves. Yeah.
Emily: And, you know, that extended to things like school, that extended to things
Emily: like athletics or extracurriculars.
Emily: And there's been a shift in that, like, we, I think it's gone too far in the
Emily: other direction of we can't, we can't, you know, ask kids to do things that
Emily: they don't feel comfortable with, right? Whether or not it's good for them.
Emily: You know, one thing that I think about a lot in sports is that like,
Emily: you know, I played basketball for a very long time and we got yelled at,
Emily: you know, we, you know, our coaches were tough on us.
Emily: We were really good. You know, uh, we have a lot of character,
Emily: but nowadays, you know, you can't do that.
Emily: You can't yell at kids, um, in athletics.
Emily: I'm not arguing for yelling that kids are not in sports, but I think that there's
Emily: an absence of, you know, an ethic of learning from adversity, right?
Emily: Navigating one's way through things and struggling a bit.
Emily: You know, everything shouldn't be easy, right? And everything shouldn't also
Emily: be about an individual's comfort level, right?
Emily: Because then we see hyper-individualization, right?
Emily: Where's the collective values, right? Where's the community building?
Emily: A lot of young people nowadays don't have those skills, right?
Emily: It's very difficult for them to engage with a new person at the grocery store, right?
Emily: These things aren't normal. We should be able to say hello, look a person in
Emily: the eye at the grocery store, right?
Emily: And also, you know, going back to what I said earlier, people more often than
Emily: not learn from consequences, right?
Emily: As opposed to, well, let's just make everything easy, everything nice.
Emily: You're lovable. I love you. All of that is, of course, but we also have to have the consequences.
Emily: And I think, you know, maybe we don't have to go to the extreme of like,
Emily: you know, sometimes tough love can be abused, you know, but there's also something
Emily: very real and useful about that notion of tough love of like, I love you.
Emily: And so you need to develop, you know, this character skill, right?
Emily: I know it's uncomfortable for you to speak to people at the grocery store,
Emily: but you're going to need to put your phone down, look people in the eye,
Emily: say hello, say thank you, right? Hold the door open for someone.
Emily: You know, I think that we've gotten away from some of those kinds of niceties,
Emily: maybe even, is a problem.
Emily: Because now it's like, you know, at least in the activist world.
Emily: You hear so much about, well, we have to build community, build where you are.
Emily: It's like, but why didn't you already know your neighbors?
Emily: Why did you not already know your neighbors? Please be honest about that.
Emily: And then while at the same time, it's like we have this loneliness epidemic.
Emily: Talk to your neighbors, talk to the people around you, put the phones down. You know what I mean?
Emily: Maybe it's a little awkward. That's okay.
Emily: That's an experience too. You know, so,
Emily: you know, going back to your question about is the parenting,
Emily: you know, helicopter parenting or like the we're not going to make them do anything
Emily: kind of parenting is I do think that we're not doing I think we're doing our kids a disservice.
Emily: I think that kids need consequences. They need structure.
Emily: They need love. And they got to get outside of their comfort zone.
Emily: And that often takes a nudge from parents and other supportive adults around them.
Danny: No, I'd say that's a great answer. And you more eloquently stated it than I
Danny: was trying to say. So I thank you for that, Emily.
Danny: So that was definitely an interesting one to open up proceedings with.
Danny: Let's have a look at what question number two brings up.
Emily: Okay.
Danny: Question number two, Emily. What was, as in past tense, what was your saddest moment?
Emily: Oh, my God. Why? I feel like I'm getting serious questions.
Emily: Um you know danny and i i think i might i may feel really sad right i do feel
Emily: sad about it right now but um my best friend um disappeared from a yoga retreat
Emily: um in the summer 2024 and um,
Emily: it was the kind of situation where from you know from the first um conversation
Emily: with authorities she was in the Bahamas.
Emily: So the first conversation with authorities, it was automatically suspect,
Emily: right? Things didn't sound right.
Emily: And so myself and my friend's mother and a few other people,
Emily: we went to the Bahamas and, you know, we tried to figure out what was happening.
Emily: And that ended up being a long process because, you know, there was no real investigation.
Emily: Investigation we weren't able to like really we're having a
Emily: hard time getting people to do their jobs
Emily: essentially like you know um i'm not a police officer but i know the basic things
Emily: that you need to do in order to have an effective investigation right so um
Emily: you know it's it's been the saddest moment without a doubt and i'll say this too is that um.
Emily: Taylor was my best friend for about 16 years, you know, and that's been about
Emily: the majority of my adult life.
Emily: And, you know, for someone who's not married, who doesn't have children,
Emily: you know, my best friend was my person.
Emily: You know, Taylor was my person. You know, everything, every life milestone,
Emily: you know, from the big things to the small things, you know.
Emily: And so I miss her immensely.
Emily: And it also just remains like a huge sense of injustice.
Emily: Number one, it's like, why did that happen to my best friend?
Emily: And then two, Taylor is black and trans.
Emily: And we are quite sure that it was an act of violence rooted in anti-blackness,
Emily: rooted in transphobia, which led to her disappearance.
Emily: And so that's another layer of...
Emily: You know, I guess I could say sadness is probably at the root of it,
Emily: but it's also just a lot of anger, you know, it's like, that's not right.
Emily: Nobody should be treated that way, you know, and trans people have a right to
Emily: be who they are, just like we all do, you know, and, you know,
Emily: despite so many efforts.
Emily: And for me, someone like me, who's my entire career has been devoted to social justice, you know?
Emily: And so, um, there's just another level of frustration and sadness.
Emily: Um, but that's without a doubt. I mean, I miss my best friend every day, you know?
Emily: And in some ways it's like, you know, I still have these moments of like, is it real?
Emily: You know, cause you know, also you have a bond with someone when you're so close
Emily: with someone, when they're your person, you know, You feel them so deeply,
Emily: right? The connection and the bond is so deep.
Emily: And thank goodness that things like that don't go away. You know,
Emily: the connection and that bond, at least that doesn't go away.
Emily: But I want my friend, you know, I want her here with me.
Danny: One, I'm really, truly sorry for that happening.
Danny: Thank you. And I can't even begin to imagine, you know, what that would feel
Danny: like and did feel like at the time as well.
Danny: Was there ever any closure?
Danny: Was there anything on the case that was closed or is it still outstanding?
Danny: If you don't mind me asking.
Emily: Yeah, no, it's OK. It's still technically an open investigation,
Emily: but, you know, they're not actively investigating her disappearance.
Emily: You know the only thing and I said this in the press conference it's all over
Emily: social media but the only reason why anything happened is because we pushed
Emily: for it to happen you know and thank goodness that,
Emily: media here in Chicago, in the U.S., and also some media in the Bahamas were
Emily: really supportive to really push it forward and to raise awareness about what happened.
Emily: And those kinds of things made the authorities do something.
Emily: But like I said, and I've said this from the very beginning,
Emily: you can look at what the authorities said that they did and tell that they were
Emily: not trying to find out what happened to Taylor.
Emily: And so people know, people know what happened.
Emily: You know, I believe that people who were at that yoga retreat,
Emily: who are part of the authorities in the Bahamas, probably who are,
Emily: you know, somehow just part of like street culture in the Bahamas,
Emily: I think they know exactly.
Emily: And so, you know, my hope is that people will just come forward and say,
Emily: listen, this is what happened. This is what we saw.
Emily: You know, I hope that at some point someone's brave enough to do that, you know?
Emily: Yeah. So otherwise, no, we don't know. There hasn't been closure in terms of
Emily: having the details of what actually happened.
Danny: Yeah. Well, I mean, hopefully, and I don't want this to sound glib 100%,
Danny: hopefully, you know, there will be some form of closure for you and Taylor's family and loved ones.
Danny: Because, like I said, I can't even imagine, begin to imagine what that must
Danny: have been like. I'm really glad you got to spend 16 amazing years by the sounds of it with Taylor.
Danny: And obviously you've got fantastic memories to take forward of Taylor so that's
Danny: always something like you say when you have that bond, it's always nice to have
Danny: that for the moments when you need it most, right?
Emily: Right, right, right, right, yeah, that doesn't change, you know?
Danny: 100%, well, thank you for sharing that, I'm really, truly sorry for that and
Danny: sorry for that question popping up but I appreciate your answering, Emily, thank you Yeah,
Emily: Yeah, no problem.
Danny: Let's look to switch things over um as you mentioned that's kind of two serious
Danny: quiet kind of questions there i
Emily: Know it's got silly.
Danny: So let's uh let's have let's have
Danny: a look um this one i like this one actually um because it's i'm a bit of a geek
Danny: at heart um i love superheroes etc so emily question number three if you could
Danny: choose and this has been in an episode before but i really do i'm really curious
Danny: about yours so far so emily if you could choose to have any useless superpower. What would you pick?
Emily: Any useless superpower. What would I pick? Any useless superpower.
Emily: Um you know i think honestly i would just like fly would you class.
Danny: That as useless though
Emily: No that's not useless no you're you're right that's not i.
Danny: Feel like it'd be kind of cool we like save on planes and stuff and people on
Danny: planes that you don't like
Emily: Right right and just hang out in the air you know in the sky um what would be
Emily: like what would be an example of a useless superpower, like being able to read people's minds?
Danny: I guess it depends how you're going to use it, right?
Danny: But maybe if having like, I mean, I don't know, I'm trying to think of the answer
Danny: that my guest shared that time when this question popped up,
Danny: but maybe something like, you could be the world's strongest person,
Danny: but you can't do anything unless you use your pinky or something.
Danny: Okay. I mean, that's not the answer. That's an example.
Danny: But yeah, I guess a useful superpower Or be something that's just no fun to have.
Danny: Like, you could be invisible, which is awesome. But then you could be like,
Danny: yeah, I don't know, like invisible.
Danny: But also, you've got a very, very quiet voice. So people can't hear you.
Danny: Or you've got a really loud voice. Like, that's better.
Danny: You've got a really loud voice. And people know you're there anyway.
Emily: Okay, okay. Let me see about this. I think if I could have any useless superpower...
Emily: You know, I just sometimes like I like to, I'm thinking about my dad here.
Emily: I like to kind of say things to just get like a rise out of him,
Emily: you know, and then I like to just kind of like make a joke out of it,
Emily: you know, like real like youngest daughter stuff.
Emily: I would like to do that, you know, to be able to like, you know,
Emily: like, you know, maybe like,
Emily: um, help someone see something that they, um, is maybe like a,
Emily: like an irritant for them or something.
Emily: Maybe it's kind of irrational, but then just like, did not have to like,
Emily: have the consequences of it, be able to like, see it play out,
Emily: you know, like, that's what I love doing about like my father,
Emily: like I, I was home over the holidays and, um, he has like a very clean house
Emily: and a very clean kitchen.
Emily: And, um, I made a joke that I warmed up, um, some like lasagna in the microwave and it exploded.
Emily: And he was like, you know, popped up from the couch so quick, you know?
Emily: And it was my brother and I thought it was hilarious, you know?
Emily: And, um, Um, after that, that was like one of the early days that I was there
Emily: after that, he like, he chilled out a little bit, you know, he wasn't on everybody
Emily: about, well, get your dishes done, you know, clean the kitchen, all these things.
Emily: And so I think if there's a way, if I can have a superpower of like helping
Emily: people see like, this is where you're wound very tightly, you know,
Emily: but then not have them like be able to project it onto me was because you did whatever.
Emily: I think maybe that would be my superpower of like, you're wound really tightly right here.
Emily: I'm going to like have a superpower of revealing it to you, but you're not going
Emily: to be able to make it about me, you know?
Danny: I do like that because it's still got kindness associated with it because originally
Danny: when you're trying to wind people up, it's trying to get, like you say,
Danny: get a rise out of them, which could get them really frustrated and ruin their day, obviously.
Danny: But I do like that you sort of spin it back to where, you know,
Danny: even though you've not got accountability, you know, shame on you from your
Danny: previous answer, but no accountability on that one.
Danny: But yeah, I like how it's like maybe even helping them understand,
Danny: hey, you've got this wheel a little bit wound tightly up.
Danny: This is how you can maybe, you know, do you really need to be that way?
Emily: Right. Is it really serving you?
Danny: Yeah. I mean, it would suck. I've had stuff explode in the microwave before
Danny: and it sucks. You've got to clean it up, but it's not fun.
Danny: And then you can't eat it or maybe you can. I don't know. It depends on the explosion.
Emily: You have to scrape it off the sides.
Danny: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I wouldn't want that to ruin my day because
Danny: someone else did it, right?
Danny: I understand it's his house and he wants it to be a certain way, etc.
Emily: Right, right, right.
Danny: And my guest on the first episode of this new season, Keisha TK Dutez,
Danny: she was mentioning about her mom, who's from Jamaica, about,
Danny: you know, having, you know, plastic on the sofa and everything.
Danny: Sounds similar, like a generational thing again, going back to your generational comment there.
Emily: Right, right, right, right. and it's like you know how can you respect with
Emily: also like but we want it to be just a little bit different you know or like
Emily: there's a different way maybe of doing it like have you considered it you know.
Danny: Well i like that i think that's i think that class is more than classes as a
Danny: useless superpower but one that brings value which is always a nice thing to
Danny: have so i like that one okay okay let's have a look at what question number
Danny: four brings up okay okay i'm going to ask this,
Danny: because we were kind of chatting in the green room earlier before recording,
Danny: Emily. So question number four.
Danny: Do you prefer to travel or stay close to home?
Emily: That's a really good question. I...
Emily: It's tough because I'm like the kind of person, I travel a lot.
Emily: And I would always notice that just before like a trip, I would like have this
Emily: kind of like nerve and anxiety of like, oh, I just want to stay home.
Emily: You know, it's so comfy. I love it so much. I want to hang out with my friends here.
Emily: And then when I would get out in the world or arrive at my destination,
Emily: I would be like, I'm never going back.
Emily: So that tension is real for me. But I think that I would prefer to travel.
Emily: I mean, the world is so big, you know, and there are so many beautiful places
Emily: and people and things to see and experience and like learn from that.
Emily: I would say, certainly I would rather travel.
Emily: I, I, you know, I live in Chicago and I love it so much.
Emily: And, um, there still are so many places that I want to see in the world,
Emily: experience people I want to connect with.
Emily: And, you know, what I also really love about traveled is the anonymity of it.
Emily: You know, it's like, okay, I'm like over here somewhere else in the world where
Emily: I've never been, no one knows me.
Emily: And, um, I find a real freedom in that.
Emily: And then I also find like a real, uh, like heartwarming affirmation and the
Emily: kinds of connections that we're able to make with people, um,
Emily: who we've ever met, who we have zero familiarity with in terms of culture or society.
Emily: And those are the kinds of experiences that really make me, you know,
Emily: feel like, um, that are so valuable in life, you know,
Emily: and, and really drive me, they really actually drive my sense of justice,
Emily: you know, and my sense of community of like, you know, we're all out here,
Emily: you know, we're all humans here trying to do, trying to live our lives in like
Emily: the best way that we can, you know.
Emily: And, yeah, so, and, you know, and so when I, you know, see things,
Emily: decisions, policies, people who infringe upon that, like, basic aspect of humanity
Emily: or that basic humanity, it's like, I just feel like we really feel so much urgency
Emily: around trying to protect that,
Emily: you know, and not only protect it, but increase it for people.
Danny: It's interesting that you mentioned about the anonymity, anonymity,
Danny: put my words correct there.
Danny: And I'm just thinking back to your earlier answer about how,
Danny: you know, we don't speak to our neighbours or people in the grocery store, etc.
Danny: People easily speak to people, complete strangers, on a beach,
Danny: you know, hiking up a mountain or whatever.
Danny: I guess you've got to speak to people hiking up a mountain.
Danny: It's a bit more isolated.
Danny: Do you think it's just because you're on holiday, you're on vacation,
Danny: you're in a different place as opposed to your local neighborhood?
Danny: Do you think that's maybe why it's a little bit easier to just say hi and strike
Danny: up a conversation with a complete stranger from a completely other part of the world?
Emily: I think that's true for some people, for sure.
Emily: Yeah, I think that, you know, I mean, I just also want to say,
Emily: like, I know my neighbors, you know, but there's also an intimacy that comes
Emily: with that, you know. So I know my neighbors.
Emily: They know things about me just because we live near one another.
Emily: And so I think that can be really uncomfortable for people.
Emily: And even when I, to maintain our rapport, I got to say hi to my neighbors even
Emily: when I'm really feeling like not talking to anybody or whatever the case may be.
Emily: Or when I'm frustrated with my dog, you know, I still have to say hi to my neighbors, you know?
Emily: So, um, I think there's like an intimacy that people can be really uncomfortable
Emily: with because you got to see those people again and again and again.
Emily: And I think when people are traveling, one, I think traveling,
Emily: you know, I think even though people will maybe be cautious and.
Emily: Protective, there's, it's also disarming in ways, you know, because everything's
Emily: new, it's exciting and it's affirming in so many ways.
Emily: So I think people are just often in a better mood while traveling.
Emily: And I think it's time bound, you know?
Emily: And so people know, all right, I'm going to be on the beach here for two days
Emily: and I'm going to make best friends with this, you know, the person who's serving
Emily: me, you know, food and beverages or, you know,
Emily: our taxi driver, we're going to like, you know, have the same taxi driver for
Emily: the whole time that we're here.
Emily: So I do think that that's easier. And I also just, I also think that.
Emily: Obviously not every other country, but in so many other countries,
Emily: human connection is much deeper and much more regular part of society.
Emily: So you go to a lot of cultures where there's all kinds of people out in public
Emily: and everybody's talking to everybody and the expectation or the cultural standard
Emily: is that, you know, people stick together, people support one another.
Emily: And so that extends to the tourists who are there as well.
Emily: And so I think that also makes it easier because, you know, one is in this environment
Emily: where this is just the standard.
Emily: This is just how it happens, right? And so, you know, even for people who are
Emily: reluctant at first, you know, you can only be immersed in an environment or
Emily: culture for so long and resist it, right?
Emily: You know, it takes so much more energy to resist a culture like that than it
Emily: does just be like oh hey let's connect let's talk you know all these things.
Danny: Yeah i i hear you on that my friend
Danny: um sam who had mentioned earlier actually um who's and you know learned politics
Danny: etc etc um he turned 50 back in 2018 and we went to scotland uh for his 50th
Danny: and it was just like just the two of us uh just like uh we did like a 30, 12, 13-day jaunt.
Danny: So the first half was like a whiskey tasting tour up in the highlands of Scotland, which was awesome.
Emily: Yeah.
Danny: And then the second half was sightseeing. And what Sam loved,
Danny: because he's born and bred Canadian and lived in Toronto for the majority of
Danny: his life, works in Toronto.
Danny: So it's a really busy city, obviously. Yeah.
Danny: And people are generally heads down, getting to their business,
Danny: place they work at, et cetera.
Danny: When we were in Scotland, when we'd go out for dinner on an evening and watch
Danny: football on the TV, all the locals would invite us over and just like
Danny: Say hiya when you walked in the door. Ask him, you know, where you're from?
Danny: How's your day's been? What do you want to drink?
Danny: Here, you should eat that and that. And he was blown away. He said,
Danny: you would never, ever get that in a downtown bar in Toronto, for example.
Danny: So just to your point on like a really simple level, it's a great example that you use there.
Emily: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. And now, Danny, you're like, you're kind of stirring up my desire to travel.
Emily: I have been like holding off for a little while. And I'm like,
Emily: it might be time to get back out in the world.
Danny: What's your ideal, like, if you could choose your preferred vacation?
Danny: Is it, like, something that's busy and really full itinerary?
Danny: Or do you like to sort of just switch off, relax?
Emily: In my ideal travel, Dani, is I like to have a little bit of, like,
Emily: you know, if we can get, like, a solid two weeks on a trip, then I want to spend
Emily: one week in the city, and I want to spend...
Emily: Probably about five days at the beach.
Emily: I just, you know, call it what you want. I love a beach and,
Emily: you know, being by the ocean, sometimes it just feels so spiritual and to,
Emily: you know, kind of slow down after having been in the city, going to the cultural sites,
Emily: you know, connecting with people, learning about things.
Emily: And I've also, you know, I've worked globally.
Emily: And so having the meetings in the city, you know, following that up with some, some quiet beach time.
Emily: And maybe it's not always so quiet, you know, but, you know,
Emily: being able to be in the natural beauty and have that like reflection,
Emily: feel the connection to the ocean and to the people who are nearby.
Emily: That's how I prefer to do it. Yeah.
Danny: I feel I think I'd be a bit similar. Like I say, we moved from a big city to
Danny: a really small village and we're about a 15 minute walk from like a big lake.
Danny: So you can go there and you can kayak and canoe, just swim, do whatever you want, basically.
Danny: And I tend to find it in the summer especially not so
Danny: much in the winter they're a lot harder to do but in the summer it's
Danny: just nice if I've had like a really stressful day at work or whatever just
Danny: get out on the lake for an hour and it just brings me right back down again
Danny: so nice so I'm with you 100% on that with the water side things yeah yeah good
Danny: well hopefully you'll get off to that that very soon and let me know how it
Danny: went and where you went and what you got up to that'd be awesome I
Emily: Will I will.
Danny: So we're almost at the end, Emily. We've done well so far.
Danny: Let's have a look then to see what question number five brings up.
Emily: Okay, what is that?
Danny: Question number five. And this could go either way because obviously because
Danny: of your work, there may be photos that you take for work.
Danny: It may be nice and relaxing with your dog and Christmas, etc.
Danny: But question number five, Emily. What was the last picture you took on your phone?
Emily: Oh, that's interesting. Can I look?
Danny: Yeah, yeah.
Emily: Let me look.
Danny: I would never know what it was. I'd have to check anyway.
Emily: Uh, let me see here. That's the last picture I took on my phone.
Emily: Oh, okay. It was, um, I have a dog and I have a cat.
Emily: My cat is, uh, she just turned 17 in human years in November.
Emily: Um, and my dog is four. And so it's been, um, they weren't automatically friends.
Emily: Um, But just recently, they have been coming in closer proximity with one another.
Emily: And so the last, the most recent picture that I took is a picture of the three
Emily: of us on just relaxing on the couch.
Emily: My cat's on my lap and then my dog is right next to me with his head very close to the cat.
Emily: And so it's a sweet moment because when I got the dog, you know,
Emily: everyone was like, oh, the dog and the cat aren't going to get along,
Emily: you know, whatever, whatever.
Emily: And I was just holding out. I was like, I'm just holding out for that day when
Emily: I come home and they're actually cuddling.
Emily: And so I think we're getting closer and closer to that moment.
Emily: So I took a picture and that was like really good for them to be so close.
Emily: It was also just sweet, you know.
Danny: Well, that's it because, I mean, obviously you've got the stereotypical dogs
Danny: versus cats and they're not compatible.
Danny: And you've had the cat longer, I guess.
Emily: Yeah, yeah. I've had her for 16 years and she's 17.
Danny: 17, yeah. So I guess, I mean, I can understand. How long have you had your dog?
Danny: You mentioned you've got a good sized dog, right?
Emily: Yeah, he's a big guy. Four? Yeah, he's four. And so I've had it for like three and a half years.
Danny: Right. Yeah. So I could imagine that'd be a big, if the cat,
Danny: was the cat always just the on the pet in the house? Yeah.
Danny: Yeah. Yeah. That's, I can get the cat's point of view here because I'm very,
Danny: I'm a grumpy Scotsman Gen Xer.
Danny: So I can get the cat's point of view. It's like, this is my zone.
Danny: This is my time with Emily. Who are you?
Emily: Right, right, right. Like you're still here.
Danny: Yeah, exactly. I know we've got three little dogs.
Danny: They're all the same breed. and we had one, we had three dogs prior and our
Danny: two boy dogs passed. They got old and passed.
Danny: So we waited a while, then we got two other dogs and there's mother and son, which is awesome.
Danny: But the dog we had in the house with the two previous boy dogs took a while to adapt.
Danny: You know, like her domain, she was used to two older boys and now you've got
Danny: like a lady dog that's younger than her, but it's a mum and the puppy's like
Danny: really rambunctious. so it was a big change you know for her
Emily: And i think too like for dogs especially like you know they have little emotions
Emily: and so like i think they also get a little jealous like at least i know my dog
Emily: does i mean that's part of the reason why he came on the couch is because my cat came on,
Emily: sat in my lap first the next thing you know here he is giving me those puppy
Emily: dog eyes asking to come up on the couch because he sees that the cat's getting attention,
Emily: So I think for dogs, too, it's like, you know, they're sensitive to that.
Danny: No, no. I know the girl dog that I mentioned, she growls if I'm petting.
Danny: No, no, that doesn't seem like a nasty way. But it's like that jealousy that
Danny: you mentioned, like the jealousy.
Danny: It's like you're talking to someone, you're petting someone else.
Danny: I'm your dog. You know, pet me, pet me.
Danny: So cats are special. Cats are so independent. Like, you know, don't mess with cats.
Emily: Right, right. Don't mess with cats. And I feel like she, my cat really helped
Emily: me train the dog because, um, you know, the dog, you know, sometimes it may
Emily: be like really rambunctious running through the house, chasing a tennis ball. Um,
Emily: Next thing you know, here she comes around the corner with a paw,
Emily: like just waiting for him, you know.
Emily: And so he learned, you know, you don't just tear through the place.
Emily: You've got to slow down and then check the corners, you know.
Danny: Yeah, exactly. I've watched, one of my vices, if you like, is just like scrolling
Danny: through a bunch of reels.
Danny: I get sucked into like that vortex where you just go through reel after reel or short after short.
Danny: And I always get stuck on the videos where you've got cats that are taking revenge on dogs.
Danny: Where dogs are playing they're getting a bit close whatever and it's just like
Danny: the super fast 10 swings of the arm really quickly and like even big dobermans
Danny: and alsatian stuff are just off you know this little cat has scared them away yeah
Emily: I know right exactly because i you know my dog is a he's an 80 pound german
Emily: shepherd mix and my cat i mean she's actually pretty little you know she's you
Emily: know on a good day she's nine pounds um but she's not scared of that guy i'll
Emily: tell you that but the other way around yes.
Danny: You should get like a little camera installed like one of these indoor security
Danny: cameras and just see what they get up to they're probably just having the best
Danny: day of their life while you're at work or out you know and then it's only when
Danny: you come up the driveway and up there the pathway etc though they'll get back
Danny: to you know just get back to who we are right
Emily: Right right right yeah she's here.
Danny: Exactly well that is awesome and i I think it's a nice way to finish off your
Danny: time in the random question hot seat, Alice. I do appreciate that.
Danny: As is only fair, because I've had you, you know, on the pressure point,
Danny: if you like, of the hot seat.
Danny: As is only fair, it's now time to hand over the question, Master, but on to yourself.
Emily: Okay. All right, Danny. Okay, so my question for you is...
Emily: As a result of doing all of these interviews with people, have you noticed that
Emily: there's something that everyone has in common,
Emily: like similarities or like what have you noticed about like people in this kind
Emily: of experience with these random questions with an interviewer, you know?
Danny: That's a really good question. I think one of the common threads is you're all
Danny: silly enough to come on the show and put yourself in the horsey.
Danny: I'm joking. that no one of the i think it's been really refreshing to see how
Danny: open people are um because generally and you've got your own podcast emily and
Danny: you've been on you know countless interviews
Danny: Um you know yourself sometimes as much as we don't want to we try to present
Danny: the best version of ourselves whether that's on social speaking to each other
Danny: on a podcast whatever that looks like
Danny: and you may come in with you know i've done it myself i've been guilty of
Danny: myself coming in with prepared sort of if i
Danny: get asked this this is going to be my soundbite moment where i can say
Danny: this for example and i feel because of the
Danny: form of the show um guests come in
Danny: to know that a i'm i'm not trying to have a
Danny: gotcha moment with you so you know i want to make sure
Danny: we were talking earlier about you know comforts and comfort zones
Danny: etc i want to show you're comfortable and i think that's um
Danny: the guests that come on because they know the format and they
Danny: know that it's going to be completely random i think every
Danny: guest i feel is probably a good open-minded
Danny: person it doesn't mind being vulnerable we
Danny: shared a vulnerable moment of your own earlier so it's it's it's been nice to
Danny: to just speak to people and have a conversation that hopefully if we were to
Danny: bump at each other on vacation for example you know stuff like this would happen
Danny: so yeah i feel that the most common thread is an openness to
Danny: See where a conversation goes and go with that flow as opposed to trying to
Danny: make it structured and X, Y, Z.
Danny: And so far, everybody's been super nice and super, you know,
Danny: super easy to chat with, like your good self, which helps me and makes my job a lot easier.
Danny: So thank you for that. And I feel that. Does that answer? Does that make sense?
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. That's great. Thank you. Seems like a fun,
Emily: like, role that you have, you know, like, okay, a random question.
Emily: You know random answers like what are people going to say you know.
Danny: Well and that's it it can be a little bit tough at times because if the answer
Danny: if the question sorry not the answer if the question doesn't
Danny: equate to like a an answer that's
Danny: maybe one minute long i think well do i follow up and go
Danny: another direction with that question or do i i just say you know
Danny: what let's call it a day on that question let's go next one so it can be fun
Danny: trying to you know keep the conversation going but you know for the most part
Danny: it's it's really really super enjoyable when i get to meet us and folks like
Danny: yourself and and just basically i have you know a conversation about five real
Danny: or six I guess really cool random things so yeah
Emily: Yeah okay exciting well I'm excited for you to keep this work up and thank you
Emily: thank you yeah yeah and I'll say for me too it's it's nice to be out of kind
Emily: of like the structured environment you know of like what am I talking points
Emily: you know like what do we got to say now you know so.
Danny: No I can imagine and especially for the work you do Emily I
Danny: can imagine sometimes I mean I'm not sure but maybe sometimes you know depending
Danny: on political bias slants etc some interviewers may be trying to put you down
Danny: a rabbit hole that you don't necessarily want to be going but their question
Danny: in line might try place you there so yeah that's one of the reasons I try to
Danny: keep you know political bias out of the show completely
Danny: and just have a nice conversation obviously it's important to speak about policies
Danny: and you know and stuff like that for sure right uh but yeah well i would love
Danny: to do a like a live show sometime just get the audience to actually ask the
Danny: questions because then it's really random
Danny: it'd be cool yeah
Emily: So we'll see yeah that would be awesome yeah like a live recording and you know
Emily: funnily enough like i actually really enjoy asking kind of like random questions
Emily: and i grew up playing 20 questions with my mom you know and so it just it's
Emily: like a fun it's a fun thing to do And I think-
Emily: We need things that are just purely entertainment and lighthearted and fun,
Emily: but it also actually really does help with critical thinking skills, you know?
Danny: Yep. Oh yeah, I can 100% agree on that for sure.
Danny: So Emily, as I mentioned, and thank you again for that question.
Danny: I have really enjoyed chatting with you today.
Danny: For people that want to A, listen to your award-winning podcast,
Danny: B, find out more about the work that you do and see, even talk to you about,
Danny: you know, working with you, where's the best place to check all that stuff out,
Danny: connect with you, et cetera?
Emily: Yeah. Well, to connect with me directly, people should go to LinkedIn and search
Emily: for Emily R. Williams, Chicago.
Emily: I will come up and to listen to the podcast. It is beyond voting everywhere you stream podcasts.
Danny: That is awesome. As always, I will leave the links to that in the show notes.
Danny: So whatever app you're listening on or if you're listening to this on the website
Danny: just check out the episode show notes and that will link through to emily's
Danny: linkedin as well as a podcasting website so all the stuff will be in there in
Danny: the show notes so make sure you check them out so again emily thanks for appearing
Danny: on today's 5 Random Questions yes
Emily: Thank you so much danny.
Danny: Thanks for listening to 5 Random Questions and if this was your first time
Danny: here feel free to hit follow and check out past episodes if you enjoyed this
Danny: week's episode i'd love for you to leave a review on the app you're currently
Danny: listening on or if you know someone else that would enjoy the show be sure to
Danny: send us away it's very much appreciated until the next time keep asking those questions