Where's the partner? The partner was there. Why didn't the partner say my partner shot this lady in the face for no reason? Where was that? Okay. There was a total cover up until the video came out. Then they fired him. Okay. That's the issue. There's a million issues here, but the partner was there. He saw it. Where did that go? We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic because we were afraid.

A Black Executive Perspective.

Welcome to the Black Executive Perspective Podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

And I'm your co host, Chris P. Reed.

And again, we are live at WNHU 88. 7 on the Richter dial here at the University of New Haven. Podcast studio. We want to thank them for their continual partnership with A Black Executive Perspective Podcast. Students is out. I think they got another, how much Noelle, another three weeks left, about another two weeks, two weeks before they come back, before they'll be running around the campus. So we Really appreciate the partnership. Go chargers.

We also like to thank and shout out our partners at CODE M Magazine, where the mission is saving the black family by first saving the black man. That's CODE M Magazine, CODE M Magazine, two M's dot com.

Yeah, definitely. Check out our partners, CODE M Magazine. And actually they just launched their August, um, uh, edition. Check it out. It's all about fitness and mental health, really good articles. So definitely go and check them out. So if you, you know, obviously it's the summertime and people are in and out. Vacations, the whole nine yards runs the gamut here. Right. And you know, look, I was on vacation the last couple of weeks as well. Uh, with my family in Martha's Vineyard, uh, for two weeks, having a really, really good time. Right. However, when you're on vacation, the world don't stop turning. All right. Stuff still comes up and keeps happening. Right. And so based on that, Chris and myself wanted to dive into some of the topics that have happened over the last couple of weeks. And we want to give you our point of view on some of these areas. And we, and trust me, um, there's, like I said, the world keeps turning. And so there's a lot of things that's been going on. So today. For this episode, we're going to discuss these, these topics, give our point of view, and then more importantly, hope that you definitely see where we're coming from. Because at the end of the day, discussion is always about learning. And our goal is to learn from what's happening in the world. So we can hopefully make the world a better place. What's your thoughts on that? My brother,

man, I think that's exactly what we need to write this time. And I think we're going to do a good job of it. And I think the people enjoy it.

All right, my man. So look, let's don't hold them up. Are you ready to talk about it?

I'm ready.

All right, let's talk about it.

So, the 1st thing I wanted to get into is probably going to cascade into the other things that we have before us, but that is what are the qualifications for certain roles. And 1 of the things that I think we should really look at and investigate. We, we, we, it would do us justice to explore the mandatory psychological evaluations that are aligned with certain positions, especially those that are in government law enforcement. All right. and judicial, you know, responsibilities. And the reason why that is is because you should have to have a certain Psychological acumen in order to facilitate roles that are responsible for the prosperity and the protection and the oversight of humanity. Right? And so a couple of examples that we'll talk about, but tell me what your thoughts is on those type of mandatory things put in place.

So, so number one, I mean, this is something you wanted to bring up. And, and, um, number one, you said a couple of words to start laughing because they've been, these words have been big time over the last two, three weeks, no one, you said qualifications and then you psychological, uh, not psychological safety, but psychological, uh, um, What's the word I'm looking for that you're competent psychological competency, right? And, and so, so those things have been, um, big over the last couple of weeks. So do me a favor dive into when you're talking about psychological competency. For basic qualifications for certain roles, elaborate, what do you mean? So

the easy one, low hanging fruit at this point in time is the GOP's assertion that Joe Biden wasn't mentally competent to run the free world. Okay. He wasn't qualified mentally to hold the position that we were paying him to hold as the commander in chief leader at a free world.

Okay.

And there was some back and forth about that. And. Ironically, there are some positions, some roles. I got a boy that's a air traffic control and 1 of the qualification 1 of the mandates in air traffic control is at the age of 52, you should be retiring and they did some type of, uh, understanding or equation to where you start to lose certain. Capacities and focus and things of that nature. So you're compensated loaded on the front end. Because they know that around 52, you're going to be up out of there. You got to find something else to do, whether they're still in that vein or not. They don't want you watching planes and being vigilant with your eyes and them dark rooms and all that kind of stuff. That's smart. I love that. I love that. Right. Makes sense. But it's an understood dynamic that with age becomes mental degradation. Um, but it's also a situation where your prejudice, your bias, the baggage that you bring into roles. Maybe shouldn't be aligned with certain responsibilities that roles have, like a police officer, like a judge, like a president of the United States. So not only should we be wagging our finger at somebody too old and passing. Cognitive dissonance test. But we should also be saying, should this person represent the free world based on their psychological makeup, based on how they see things and how they interact, because some sociopaths it's great for a CEO to not care about numbers and cut thousands of people's job and not care about the repercussive actions. That's not great for a leader of people in a society.

Right.

And I think that one of the feedback that you'll receive about Donald Trump. Particularly is he that's just Trump being Trump and he just crazy. He's just going to say whatever, but this role doesn't call for that. This role calls for decorum. This role call for presidential kind of executive positioning and responsibility. You can't be a wild card and then you can lead everybody.

So go ahead and finish your thoughts. I

just think that if we had somebody learned and trained and that had put something together to say, these are the steps you have, these are the prerequisites. To fit this role, psychological prerequisites. We might not be in this position we're in now, bro.

So, so you said a lot there. Okay. A lot. And there's, we could talk about this all day. Cause we can go in a million ways, right? You use the air traffic controller, um, who obviously that person has millions of people's lives in their hand, right? One mistake, thousands of people, hundreds of people can die. Right. So, you know, uh, evidently they came up with some type of, you know, You know, mechanism to say, you get to a certain age, you, you start, uh, decreasing in your ability to be able to stay, uh, competent in terms of being able to do that. Now, let's be fair, you know, and then again, this is where we get into trouble. Okay. It's because every person that's 52 ain't 52. All right. Every person that's 70 ain't 70. Okay. And, you know, so we, so that's where the gray areas come into. Okay. Because we all don't age the same, our brains don't diminish the same, you know, so, so that's the great, that's the rub, that's the, the hard thing to, to, to, to put it to the, to define and say specifically, um, you're done right now, all that being said to your point, I think there is a thing that you have to, at least people should be getting tested when you're in these roles. Constantly. Okay. And, and so when we look at Joe Biden and Donald Trump. You know, so, and again, this is our opinions. Okay. These are things that we believe based on our experiences and that we're going to talk about, right. You know, and we know when you have the highest, when you hold the highest office in the land, all right, which is the president of the United States, it's going to age you. All right. If you look at every president that went in, all right. And then four years later, what they looked like eight years later, Okay. They're totally different individuals. And rightfully so, because you're carrying weight on every little thing that when you and I go to sleep, we ain't thinking about, all right. And it's not just what's happening in the United States, it's global. So you're going to age, right? That's number one. Okay. And I think we're at an area now, and let's be fair now, because I, you know, like I said earlier, every 50, every number, ain't the same. You know, when I was a kid, You know, our parents, they were 40, 50, they were like, they ain't go make it. All right. Because they didn't take care of themselves where today people are 50 and they're like the new 50 is a new 40. All right. 60 is the new 50, but we're talking different type of things here. Right. We're talking good. You brought up is there certain positions that psychologically you got to be squared away. Right. Yes. And then sometimes the people calling or saying that you're not psych psychologically competent. Is the person that psychologically competent. All right. So, so who's who's testing who? Yeah, who's who's testing who? All right. And so I remember we're on vacation, uh, Gayle and I. Oh, no, no, this was probably before we were on vacation after they had the first debate. Right. And let's be fair. And again, this is my opinion. And I saw the first debate, I'm sorry, Joe Biden, you did a good job. All right. At the end of the day, it's just time. And this is where I think it's less than him. He's crazy. It's just age has caught up with him. Right. Right. And, and, and here's the thing though, when you're on a debate stage, what is a debate stage about?

About the facts about, uh, information,

right? So somebody saying you're saying one thing, somebody saying, nah, that ain't true, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you got to have your wits about you to be able to challenge or push back immediately based on what is being set. Right. And we saw that he couldn't do that. Right. And, and the right thing to do in my opinion, and I think a lot of people was for him to bow out and let somebody, you know, new come in and look, we have these things now where people say we should put age limits. Um, there should be. And, and, and I'm gonna be honest with you in those type of roles. I think that kind of makes sense. Okay. But here's the thing, the point I wanted to go and I'm gonna turn the mic back over to you is that, um, Okay. Me and we were watching, I think it was CBS this morning and stuff like that. And they were asking people, uh, what was their opinion of the debate? And, and, and, and, and is Joe, Joe, Joe Biden or Donald Trump too old. And this one guy, this one guy said, and it had me dying laughing. He said, look, he said, they're both old. Right. He said, one person is slowing down because of age. The other one is just unhinged. I started laughing because I thought it was really funny, right? But to your point, who's to say? Right. I just think I'm going back to what you're saying. Yes, there should be some level. And you talked about police officers and, and judges, the same thing. There's no age limit on them, but eventually, and we'll, we'll dive into it. Eventually people become unhinged, right? There's not, they're not there psychologically, right. To, to do the job that they're supposed to do at the level that they're supposed to do it.

Well, I think the situation is Tony, it's not even so much about the age, but about the. Uh, the mental acumen, the ability to understand and rationalize the responsibilities of the role. I'll give you a couple of instances, but in the instance, we'll go to the police officers in a moment, but let's just stick to the highest office in the land. Yeah, um, we have to have a check. The whole. Democratic Republic is based on a series of checks and balances, right? So, so there's a, there's a term in Latin, case custodes, ipsos custodes, and that is who will guard the guardians, right? Who's policing the police, who's telling the people who are supposed to be in charge that enough's enough. And the good thing about this current situation is that the Democrats chose to guard the guardian.

Correct.

And they chose to say, Hey, we're This is not good for us. This is not how we want to represent ourselves as a collective. And so what we'll do is make adjustments to not have this represent us going forward. Unfortunately, when you hear the GOP, it's, that's how he feels, you know, he's just crazy. We don't all think like that. We don't all feel like that. And you can't absolve yourself to sometimes be aligned with someone who you've designated. As your leader, your leader represents and speaks for your interest and your vision and your purpose at all times should be. And so it's too much of a mixed bag. Get this person evaluated to say, if this is, if this is how he really is and who he really is, then we have to live with that and understand that. But it's too often where they say, well, that's not what he meant. Those words are in English. I speak English. You speak English first language. I understand the definition of terms and words. I'm taking it for face value. I can't go, like I tell my wife all the time, I can't go by what you mean. I can only go by what you say.

So just to be clear though, because I just want to make sure we're clear. What you're saying is, I just want to be clear is that for Trump, you have people always trying to interpret. What he's saying, which could, to be fair, he could be incompetent, psychologically incompetent as well, but instead of them calling that out, they're basically trying to be, um, a surrogate. In terms of just trying to say, Oh, he don't mean that. Well, you know, he didn't mean it that way. And, and, and to be fair, that's a good point because as you get older, I remember, I'm just going to my own experience, right? And as, as, as my parents and grandpa, and you, they get older, they start saying some crazy stuff. Right. And then you're like, what did they say? And, and, but these were the same individuals that had. threw major wisdom on you throughout your life, right? And I remember this was years ago, buddy, when I was in Hawaii, I was over my, um, my girlfriend's house and her mother said something to me. I never forgot. And she was talking about, I think her mother was going through, to your point, mental challenges and stuff of that nature. And she said something, she said, look, always remember, once an adult, twice a child. And I never forgot that. And what she was meaning is, we come into the world as a child. Then we become an adult, but as we get into our older ages, We become childlike again, right? And that's everybody, right? So I hear your point in terms of, you know, somebody always trying to make excuses for somebody who may be, they may be off the rails, right? Where's their test? Who's holding them accountable, and when you say holding them accountable, we're talking about holding them accountable, we're talking the group holding them accountable, right? Well, as you said, what the Democrats did when it came to Joe Biden, right? Now look, net net, let's be fair. This is all about winning. So if somebody, you know, let's just be fair now, if, if this had nothing to do with winning, I don't think they would have said nothing to Joe Biden. All right. They would have been like, you know, happy trails, good luck, whatever the case may be. Okay. But this is about winning and holding power. And then when it's about winning and holding power, then all bets are off. Right. And that's the, that's the other thing about the other side. They want to win. And they feel that this person, Trump is their best chance to win. So, so what if he's senile? All right. So what if he ain't got his faculties together? We're going to prop them up. And look, I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying it's all when, when it's about winning, people are willing to do whatever it takes to get it done.

I think we got to be cognizant of the blast radius though, Tony, like some wars are, the juice is not worth the squeeze, right? So we win this election at the cost of the civility Of our nation and the sanctity of our citizens at the reputation that we forged and fought and died for that you served for, to be honest with you, right? Like we're, we're, we become a laughingstock on so many different accords where you have people that say, uh, he's, he says so many irresponsible things that are not classically aligned with the role, even when in office. That it should have been like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe somebody of that. It would say that after being provided the platform in which he has, he's, he's not very, he's not very presidential with the platform. And so we can go into policies and things of that nature, whatever the case may be, but it's not even translating into goodwill and good kind of pulling out of the Paris accord is so many different things where we're acting like these things didn't occur. We're not going to get to the insurrection right now. Right. But we're acting like. Everything's a mulligan. Like everything can't be a Mulligan. No, you don't. I mean, in that situation, we have to hold people accountable. If we're going to hold ourselves as a society accountable. And I think that for us on this platform and this podcast, we as black people are overarched in the accountability factor, like we are. We have to be used to black taxes, all this other stuff, you know, for a fact, there's no way Obama could have not been top of the class. Could have said whatever the hell he wanted to say late for meetings, not reading press reports, firing people, friends, going to jail. Can you imagine it would never

happen? Okay.

Like, like Sam, Jack said, in time to heal, close your eyes, close your eyes. Imagine he was black Oh,

yeah, yeah. No, that was, uh, Matthew Macon. Yeah, mcc, right? Imagine that he was black. All right. Next thing him not guilty, man. Alright. No. Come on. She, he said Imagine if she was white, but he was white, right? Imagine if was white saying Trump, right? If

Donald Trump oh, was black, it is Donald Trump. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. No. Imagine he was black. No,

no. it wouldn't have done finish. All right. And here's the thing, bro. You, so number one, you're not, and listen, you're not saying nothing that hasn't been said a million times. The bottom line is, is his people that don't want accountability. It's the people that support them that are willing to listen to any excuse. All right. And, and that's where we've had, we've degraded as a society. Because at the end of the day, the president of the United States, it's more than just a power thing. It's about a moral thing as well. It's about how the world sees us, you know, you know, you know, and you go back to, uh, uh, George Washington, right? Who, who chopped down the cherry tree? I can't tell a lie. I did it right. And then that was the thing that you did. You always tell the truth. Let's close our eyes and imagine that, uh, Trump is George Washington. All right. He would have said, I ain't do it. All right. So blame somebody else. So, so at the end of the day. People, when people allow that you're he's doing what they allow, okay, because they feel that he has their best interests at heart. Right. And for whatever reason, so you're 100, but buddy, we're way past the decorum part. Okay, way past that. Okay. And so unfortunately we are where we are as a society and it's really and look and some people all you guys are just know our political affiliation. That's number one. Okay. And number two, we're calling it like we call it. We call it like we see it. All right, and you don't have to belong to a certain platform to see that right is right and wrong is wrong. All right, that doesn't even matter, right? What matters is, is the right thing, the way you hold yourself as a person, as the character that you bring. Okay, especially to your point when you're running for the highest off office on the planet. Okay, and we can say the planet because here at the end of the day, I remember when I was in Europe. And the people in, in, and, and, um, and, um, and, uh, the Netherlands and stuff, they were telling me more about our politics than I was like, wow, how do you, why do you guys know more about the U S politics? You know what they said, Tony, because the U S leads the world. Okay. And what you guys say is. And we all have to deal with, okay, so at the end of the day, those things to your point do matter.

Well, let me say, and I'm not going with anything that's outside of precedent. Let me, let me kind of shift it to law enforcement. In 2000, there was a gentleman named Robert Jordan. And let me just give you the quick and dirty. He applied to be a police officer. And end up being rejected from being able to join the academy. And the reason why they openly rejected him was because they said his test scores were too high. So he took this all the way to the 2nd U. S. circuit court of appeals in New York City. And it was upheld that it wasn't discriminatory. Not to hire him, because his test scores are too high and the rationale behind it was. He would end up getting bored at the job because he was too smart. So this is something that's in the laws, in the books that they are testing for things. And if that test should be applicable to the job description, then a psychological evaluation, whether it be your bias, your, your rage, um, you know, EQ. Your, you know, emotional intelligence, all of that should be applied to jobs that are important like that, where people's lives, you said it earlier, people's lives hang in the balance. And when you have someone, and we've had so many instances where police officers have shown up and been, um. Unhinged term you use earlier unhinged at the worst times. When it comes to especially black and brown folks, it's because I feel there should have been more strict. Testing upfront or evaluations periodically to see because they are stressful jobs. Like you said, previously, we have friends and family that are in law enforcement that are in military service, things of that nature. But when you put these people on the streets and engage with the public as such a high regard, there has to be responsibilities to make sure that you're putting the right people in the roles and you're making sure you're checking in on them. Not just, hey, how you doing, but going and talking to somebody and them signing off because the 1 thing that hasn't happened to any of these trials. Have I heard that in his last conversation with the department psychologist? He came out clean,

right?

You know, you don't hear about and I understand hippo laws and all this other stuff, but damn, the stakes are too high to put Rambo. Yosemite Sam, rootin this, tootin this out there on the street with my kids, man.

No, you're a hundred percent correct, buddy. And, and I, you know, I wish there was a, um, you know, I, I wish there was a bipartisan, uh, department, you know, department of mental fitness for, you know, certain roles that people would have to, you know, it's like the NFL, right? You know, with the NFL football, back in the day, the doctors work for the team. Okay. So you may, Chris, and you played football in college, right? You may have pulled your hamstring, right? Which could have been really, really bad. And then the team doctor looks at you and says, nah, he's alright. Okay. And then you go out and pull your hamstring off the bone. Right? And so the doctor, Uh, interest wasn't really about the, the, the player. It was about the team, making sure that the player could play. So the team could keep making money, have a chance to win. Right. So if you're going to have this type of system, it has to be by, it has to be objective, it has to be separate. Right. Where it's not the president's doctor saying he's okay. All right. Or the Secretary of State doctor saying she's okay. Okay. It's got to be a separate entity that they deal with on a yearly basis. And then they give the green light and they're not connected from a political standpoint. And I think that, I think that should be in almost any, like you said, major, uh, position in walk, on walk of life.

Because it adds to accountability because if I signed off on you and then it's determined that, Hey, a lot of behavior, a lot of instances, a lot of opportunities where this person didn't act according to the role came up, I need to explain myself. I then as a psychologist, the psychiatrist have to explain why I saw something different and why I checked the box to say, You're fit to get back on the street when police officers are involved in shootings. They have to go to a mandatory Uh, assessment before they can get out of the desk from behind the desk, like these things are there. It's not farfetched, but I believe these things should happen more up front instead of us being thirsty to fill roles and quotas. And man, we, you know, Sam, what's you that's what's going on in some of these roles where people getting badges and guns and all this other stuff. And in some of these roles where you have people sitting behind benches, that when you look at the track record, when this person comes in front of you, It always goes this way, right? And for whatever reason, when this person comes in front of you, it goes a different way, right? That's telling,

right?

There should be investigation. There should be, like you said, uh, uh, non bias party, right? That's able to assess these things and make sure because if we're not as a nation being fair, being just. And being, uh, established in the way in which the forefathers, I think really meant it to be. Now they wouldn't talk about us. We're not going to get into that on this episode, but they wanted it to be fair and equitable in the regard of, for a society to run appropriately, you have to have checks and balances. And we are so adverse to being checked or told anything. If we have a certain moniker of power.

Exactly, buddy. But let, let, let's, let's, let's take that to the next one, right? Because you talked about, you know, a police officer. Um, and being able to, um, uh, have these type of evaluations to make sure that they are safe mentally to go out and do the job. So one of the other things that happened while we were away was the song, Sonya Massey. Uh, murder, but in Chicago, uh, outside of Chicago,

Springfield, Springfield, Springfield,

Illinois, outside Chicago, right. And, uh, and what happened to her? So if anybody's been sleeping under a rock and don't know anything about this story, let's play the clip in terms of what happened.

For body camera video just released of the moment, a sheriff's deputy shot and killed a woman in central Illinois. Well, Jim and Marie, this police encounter turns deadly in just seconds. And we need to warn viewers, the body camera footage is graphic, but not right away. The officers who were called to her home spent several minutes with her gathering information about the 9 1 calls she initially placed. The conversation appears to be wrapping up about a minute later. Is there anything else I can do for you? They notice the stove is on. Massey goes over to the pot of water, and things take a fatal turn.

Oh, I would rebuke you in the name of Jesus. You better not, I'll shoot you in the face

Deputy Grayson's body camera shows his vantage point as he raises his weapon. Massey places the pot down, puts her hands in the air, and ducks. Grayson shoots. It may have been a little unclear to see, so Massey said something about, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus, and the deputy said something about, You better not, I will shoot you in the face.

So, when we talk about hitting close to home, this occurred less than 50 minutes from where I grew up. In central Illinois, and, um, so it spread pretty quickly and came back around and deputy Grayson, former deputy Grayson, um, this is something I can't imagine how these words turned into those actions with a docile, timid, small, you could see this woman in her frame. You could see the makeup of the situation. In fact, she was instructed to go and do something with the pot on the stove. There was no opportunity for a fire to break out or anything this escalated and went to a place that I can't imagine how it's going to be defensible or defended or expressed or explained by the police union or whomever has to defend this, because this is indefensible, but it goes back to something we've talked about in the past. Tony, what do we tell ourselves? Our family, our children, if not to act in the way in which she acted. To go down to the ground, like all the instructions that police usually give is what down to the ground, hands up, blah, blah, blah. And then got shot in the face in her home. There's something called the castle doctrine. And basically it gives you the right to, it used to be life, liberty, and property in the original declaration. And now it's life, liberty, and produce sort of happiness. But that property thing is very important to property owners. So when you're in your home, you have a right to defend your castle and maintain your sanctuary. She was in her sanctuary and this occurred. And thank God for cell phones and body cams. Because I don't know how this could have played out if not for the video imagery.

Well, so number one, we, we knew, we know how it played out. Okay. They hid it until the video came out. Okay. They said that she, um, they didn't even report it correctly, but let's back up because there's a few things you said and in the video that everybody saw, and if you're listening online, Please go to our website to watch the video, um, if you haven't, which this has been all over the place. So I would imagine you haven't seen it, but you know, some people don't pay attention to these things. Um, let's back up. She called the police because there was an intruder. She believed there was an intruder. The police came, they looked around, and they saw one of the cars that's in front of her house or in the driveway, I can't remember. The window, the side, the passenger window was smashed. So evidently there was somebody, okay? So they come in, they said, Hey! You know, you called, we're checking, we walked all the way around, we looked at things, we didn't see anything, you know, and she said, yeah, I heard something, she said, can I come in? Yeah, come in. And then they were like, okay, blah, blah, blah. Hey, can you give us your driver's license so we can make the report? We need your ID. They were going just friendly banter and she said, Oh, I'm trying to see, I can't look, I'm looking forward. And then one day, one of the officers say, Hey, why don't you look right there? She's looking in her purse. And then all of a sudden she said, Oh, I left the stove on. Okay. And he was like, well, let's definitely turn the stove off. We don't want to burn up in here. And they were laughing. Okay. And then she goes over. Right. To turn the stove off. And then she says, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. And then this dude loses his mind. And going back to what you were saying earlier about psychologically, psychological competency. Okay. Did it seem like he was competent because a woman, a small frail woman, and look, she made her family says she had some mental issues. Okay. So let's be fair. But the bottom line is for him to go off. And then if you look at the video. She had the pot of water and he said, if you do that, she put the pot down and then said, I'm sorry, and put her hands up and then duck down. What did he do? He moved over to the side to get a better shot and shot her three times in the face. And then when his partner says, Oh, I'm going to get the first aid kit. What did he say? Nah, no need for that. It was a headshot. She's gone,

right?

I wasn't gonna let her throw a f ing pot of water in my face. That's

right.

So where is the protect and serve? Where is that? Where is it? Where's the humanity? Okay. There's a million things that this guy could have did. All right. He didn't deescalate. He escalated over and, and here's the kicker, man. And let's go back to that. That, uh, psychology thing. He, she said, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. Jesus. All right. Now look. I grew up in the church. Okay. And I'll be honest with you. What I've learned when somebody says that and somebody goes off, that means that they already had, you know, evil spirit. They already evil for them to jump like that. They're evil. They're evil, buddy. Because anybody, how would that make you pull your weapon? And said, what? I'll shoot you in the face by saying that. Come on, man. So, and then we talk about it. And you spoke a little bit. You and I chatted while I was gone a little bit about this. And then you wanted you chat a little bit about at least things have gotten better, which in this situation, when you look at it, like how. You spoke a little bit in terms of the accountability. You want to talk a little bit about that? How I do the accountability

to tie into where we're, where we're transitioning from. We talked about her history and to be transparent in her, uh, record of mental health or whatever the case would be. He also happened to have a history of excessive behavior. In different police forces to which he had been fired from,

was it three times? I think it was and

they had released audio of conversations where, uh, uh, his former superior said, listen, you can't keep your liability. You're a liability in your actions as a law enforcement officer. Somebody who's in one of these positions we talked about where you shouldn't be this way or present this way. We know better and we can't have you here because you mean us no good. And then he could just go get another job doing this somewhere else that there should be a record that travels kind of like with school, right? There should be transcripts that

follow this

dude.

But to your point earlier, man, you said it when we were talking about, you know, the president is not, um, number one, nobody's so you can, it's like this, man, you get fired from a job. Okay, legally, they're not, if you come up with some type of agreement, legally, they're not supposed to say nothing about why they fired you. Okay. And so you can go and get another job somewhere else and be, you know, uh, not a great performer, the whole nine yards. When it comes to, and going back to your earlier point, when it comes to these positions, okay, that where is the records? Are the records being shared? Okay. About. This person's background, who's coming to be a police officer in your force, who's coming to engage with the community in your area, right? Where's the checks and balances to make sure that this person that you're going to hire. Not if physically, uh, fits the bill mentally fits the bill, because evidently he didn't that's the issue. That's the major issue. This person didn't. All right. And you said something earlier in our 1st segment, but I want to go back to it. You said, and I don't I'm paraphrasing. You said, hey, we can't be trying to set quotas. All right, to be. And so right now in a lot of the police departments, because there's not a lot of people that signing up to be police officers. So they're under the gun. And I'm not going to say this happened with the Springfield police. I don't know, but I know a lot of, a lot of places are having a hard time hiring people. So they taking chances on people like this, that's just a fact. Okay. They're willing to look the other side. Well, you know, when he shoot nobody, he may have stomped them. All right. Or he may hit him a couple of times with baton when they asked for a cookie. All right. Well, you know, he ain't shot nobody yet. And we can, we can work that we can train them out of that. Right. We can train them out of that. And they hire these individuals. And, and here's the, my last thing that I want to hear your point. You said the body cam. Okay. Now, buddy, they fired them. They did all these things. As soon as the body cam footage came up. This was a few weeks earlier. Okay. And where was number one? Where's the partner? The partner was there. Why didn't the partner say my partner shot this lady in the face for no reason? Where was that? Okay. There was a total cover up until the video came out. Then they fired him. Okay. That's the issue. There's a million issues here, but Wait, the partner was there. He saw it. Where did that go? So until we have full account, so if the video didn't come out, this would have been a lady that nobody would know what happened to her. I think they told her family. I can't remember exactly what it was, but they told something that she died some other way, right? Oh, they said an intruder killed her. I could be wrong, but I thought that's what the narrative was, right? When he shot it, where is the, where was the partner? Where's his story? Why didn't he come out and it should be breaking news. A police partner, uh, uh, rats, uh, him out and talked about how he killed this, this woman.

You know, another way to put it is somebody does the right thing, right? And so he was raised, right? His parents raised him, right. And he stood up for what he believed in, what he signed up for as a person to protect and serve our interests. The, the, the reality of it is I'm conflicted, um, in multiple ways, but definitely as a black person, as a girl, dad. So many different ways in the fact that one of the previous arguments that we've had on this platform and that I've heard is, uh, the person was put on administrative leave, barring investigation. Um, this was strung out and this person got a chance to live late life and exact a pension or retire, or they had so many options that they didn't afford the victim in the moment. And for once this is, and, and, and I might not be up on this stuff. So please forgive me audience, but for once, this is the first time I've heard of. Once the stuff came out, the person was immediately fired, charged with first degree, not manslaughter, not something that could be bargained down or pled down. Even George Floyd thing wasn't first degree. This is first degree homicide and discharge of a weapon and some other charges that hopefully they're going to stick because that would just be a horrible situation. But in the idea of All the things that we have been protesting for and asking for, which is accountability and the law to work both ways. When they do something wrong, they get arrested immediately. No bond, no bail, no nothing because of the heinous act. That was transmitted against the victim that all those things did happen. Now, I understand the timing of it because the guy didn't tell on him. But if we go past that, when they knew they did something, and then I look up and in Chicago, they protested and I'm thinking, what are we protesting his behavior? Like, what are we, if we're not protesting the fact that you didn't catch this beforehand, which is what we're discussing today, correct. The, the, the actions, all you can do as a society is respond when things occur. You can't, it ain't minority. It ain't 1984, you know what I'm saying? Where we do, uh, mental, you know, uh, uh, uh, cognition, uh, crimes and things of that nature. We can't predict when somebody gonna go left and yeah, pre cry. Right, right. It's not minority report, but once it happened, I was proud of the state of Illinois, I was proud of Springfield to make sure that this person was put behind bars. And held accountable for what he did to this woman's life and to her family. Then when I saw the protest, I was confused as the message that we're actually transmitting from a protest perspective, because, and I'm just going to be very candid here on this platform. White folks is like, what is we supposed to do then? Damn, do we dare, do we do, damn, do we don't. You gonna take to these streets no matter what.

So I didn't, to be fair, and you're educating me on some stuff that I haven't been privy to. So I haven't seen the protest. So what are they protesting about?

So when they went to Chicago, they were protesting the police, this has happened again. And we got to come to terms with the fact that black and brown people are being killed arbitrarily by police officer. And we're calling them bad apples when it occurs or rogue agents or whatever the case may be. But the reality of it is, everything that the governmental bodies did after the fact was actually in line with what we have been asking for, which is do something. Because before, you noticed, Tony, Them cats was going on administrative leave. You will see them on Instagram, you know, taking this money and going on vacation with their families, dropping their kids off for school and shit. Like it was crazy. It was crazy. If this person had a normal life and was out on bond, not even a bond, they wouldn't even indicted or arrested. It was just like, we'll, we'll see if we can prove that what you saw is what you saw. And this was a turn of events where, Hey, you can't pull the wool over our eyes anymore. This happened and different than with, um, the girl is in the Louisville. I apologize that I can't recall her name right off hand, but, uh,

Oh, you're talking about, uh, Breonna Taylor.

Breonna Taylor, Breonna Taylor, Breonna Taylor, it was, it was, it was until proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they was in the wrong, that something actually was done at that, you know, so the time, and you notice from the first 48, once you get further away from the crime. Memories and situations and evidence starts to be tainted and change a lot. Right? And so the fact that this was handled in such a swift manner, I applaud that. I am one that will applaud that, but I don't know what more we could do. And I feel like protesting might have sent a message. A message to where no matter what we go, we're going to have issues. So here's

the thing, bro. And I, so number one, I hear your point of view. Um, and, and let me just say this. I was on vacation and when I saw it, I protested, I, I, I don't know if you saw it or not, but I did a quick little, uh, I spoke about it and, and it made me feel like. People, when we talk about the police, they don't see black people as people, buddy.

That's correct. They don't see us

as human. You shoot a lady in the face three times, I'm sorry. And I don't, and women, you move over to get a better shot. Okay. A little woman who you, who you can see that she's had some mental issues. And, and you feel that that, so that's the part that bugs me is that they don't see us as full human beings, because here's the thing. This dude, yeah, he, and again, he's got a record. What other person, what white person did he shoot in the face? Why, what, what other? So that, that's my issue is that. You know, these things are still happening and they only, they only being exposed because of the video. How many things are being, that's happening on a daily basis around this country with, with law enforcement and people of color that don't, that you may not get to murder, but don't get exposed. All right. I can tell you a quick story about somebody. I'm not going to say his name, but he's been on this show. And he's got a high level position and he was in his office. Okay, in the came in to get some paperwork and the police officer came in and said, get your hands up and blah, blah, blah. And this dude and he was trying to say, hey, I'm a professor here. I'm this and I don't and it was ready to shoot him. And finally, the dude saw his I. D. That he was, he could have been dead that you don't hear about that on T. V. He didn't go. I mean, he went off and, and, and, and, and the university, you know, they held them accountable and blah, blah, blah. But my point is That was body cam. There was nobody, you know, we ain't nobody was protesting him. That's a story. That's a story that happened so many times. Okay, that we don't even know about this guy could have got killed just being in his own office. So, so I don't think I hear your point and, and yeah, should we say, you know, we give them credit for being holding us accountable, but I'm going to be honest. I don't want to get nobody. No credit for something. That's just cutting dry. It's not right. That you should be doing all the time. I mean, you can't be, it wouldn't even be that, you know, we, we at that level now that we got to be okay with them doing the right thing. No, I, I just, and then where's the partner? See, this is where I go to, are we talking about the right thing? The right thing would have been forget a body cam. The partner came out, talked to eternal affairs and said, you know what? I can't live with this. This is what he did. Then, in my opinion, we're moving in the right direction. But had no, no body cam came out, it would have been covered up. That's it. That's just a fact. it's hard, right?

Hard because the blue code, the, the, the brotherhood code, the unwritten rules, all that other stuff that they talk about. But, but I'm telling you, Tony, the theme still resonates here in having a master's in psychology. They make the test, they make the test with enough questions to where you can discern Yes. Is this person Yes, yes. Have a predisposition Yes. For this type of reaction? Yes. Have a predisposition for the, they make the test. We have to invest in the test upfront. Because the cost is too great to us on the back end. No,

and you're 100 percent right, buddy. You're 100 percent right. Here's the thing, though. We're running out of time. Hey, we do, we do. You know what I'm saying? Because we got, we got a few other things that we got to get into, but we ain't got time to do them. All right. But here's the thing, though, my brother. You know, um, You know, and, and I, I don't want to diminish the point that you made, because to be fair, we've seen it where they made excuses. And again, going back to where we started, right? They made that, you know, they made excuses. Well, he was in the, the, the hot water was 200 degrees. So if it fell on him, he would have disintegrated. Right? So he, I know, you know, they make these excuses, right? This time they didn't, I, I just, I've seen, we've seen so many things that's been cut and dry and they still like, well, you know what, they're going to get off, right? And so it just, it just makes me mad because you know what? Sonya Massey could have been my mother.

That's right.

Okay. And I'm not saying that just to use it as a symbol. My mother and she got what we talked about once an adult, twice a child. My mother, when she got older, she didn't have all her faculties. She wasn't 100 percent there all the time. She could have got mad if the person didn't go get there quick enough and say something and this and that and then she gets shot in the face. Three times. All right, that buddy, that's where we have to, that's where I, I get upset because when I talk about humanity, I don't care how off you are, this is another human being in front of you and you, you're there to, she called you to help her. And that got all, that was lost, became lost. So, you know, it, that, that story really, it is still, it still bugs me.

It does. But I think Tony, and I'm big on preaching. We have to learn to take wins. Um, and the idea of this is the first opportunity I'll get in my lifetime to see the system work in the intended way that it was supposed to, if this goes through and he actually gets convicted and all of the, The things that are before him actually come to pass because I'm old enough to be around and remember when Rodney King happened. And so think about how many years ago that was, and I've never, I've never seen a situation where they acted like this. And I've seen many situations where we were brutalized. I've seen many situations where we were killed. I've seen many situations where they accidentally didn't go for the taser and went for the gun instead. And other cops was right there. Not just one, a multitude of cops I've seen. And to the credit of. Of the situation, I've seen Memphis that we talked about with Tyree Nichols, where black officers allow for each other to act with impunity and do these types of things. And didn't nobody came and told I've seen this and this is the 1st time action has been taken. As soon as the information was available, and I'm just going to take this small win and hope that it cascades into a new policy going forward that it's okay. To do the right thing. Judicial system. It's okay to do the right thing. Police law enforcement system, legal system. Because up until now, I don't know if it works,

right?

No example before me has shown me if police can be held accountable.

Right, right. So what we're going to do, because I'm going to use what you just got finished saying. And I'm, I'm, I'm talking to the third person when you said, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to play this clip. Um, so you can see, so everybody can see about how this white woman walks in to the police station. In Bristol, Connecticut with a gun. Okay. With a gun and start shooting in the police station with a gun and let's see how they treat her. All right. All right. Let's watch it.

A woman was caught on camera firing a gun inside a Connecticut police station. Surveillance video shows a 51 year old woman entering the lobby of the Bristol police department appearing to have a gun aimed at her head. She knocks on the front desk window with her left hand, with a gun in her right. After banging on the window several times, the woman shoots into a door, then towards the front desk, according to police. The bullet resistant glass did not shatter. After firing, she removed her jacket and took a seat in the lobby. More shots were fired towards a door where authorities say police officers were attempting to enter the lobby. Officers used a taser to subdue the shooter. The shooter was taken to the hospital for evaluation and was later released to authorities. She was charged with several offenses, including attempted murder with special circumstances. So what's

your

thoughts on

that? My man,

you know, is what back to close your eyes, close your eyes. I mean, they came out, she had take off the jacket. She got relaxed. She was exercising her rights as a citizen to do whatever she just did to the fullest of its extent. I mean, and the, the reaction of the, when deescalate, that was a shining example of the aptitude. To not take it

to the worst level. They did everything that they could not to kill this woman. Okay. And then what did they do? They tased her. Okay. She got tased. And then a few days later, where was she? In court. All right. So, so they did everything. And, and look, I applaud them for doing that. Right? We do. I'm not saying they should have blasted her. I'm not saying. That's what you should do. You try, try. Every, uh, a mechanism in your power to make sure that there's not a loss of life. All right, but when it comes to people call it that doesn't happen. It just buddy. Come on. Let's be fair now So that's why I get upset right when I see how they did the right thing For this lady who was going through some mental issues, okay? She even told somebody at the bar she was at, I'm going to shoot a police station, and went right there and did it. All right, banged on the window the whole nine yards, right? And then sat back, smoked a cigarette, right? After she shot a few times. And they did everything under their power to not kill her. And so I applaud them for doing that, but that should be the way that should be standard operating procedure. Okay. With all people. Right. And that's why I get upset, my brother.

And it's, it's, it's unfair and unequal in so many instances, but I do believe that there has to be a universal, um, excitement. When the system works the way in which it was intended and as much as I hate that I knew that that person had to when I heard the story, I was like, oh, easy. That's easy. But I know what I know exactly what happened here. I don't I don't need to kind of see it, you know, play out. But but the reality of it was, I like, like you said, I applaud the officers that were involved. I applaud the way in which they were trained and them activating the training in such a way. But I applaud the opportunity to deescalate and it being exacted to where that woman and her children still have her in the family today, because if she, she absolutely posed a threat, they didn't know if she had more than one gun, they knew that shots were fired. There was a discharge of firearm of a public place in a, in a precinct, all these other things. It wasn't hot water. Like when you juxtapose these things. That's my point. It's more re it wasn't hot water. More re

I mean, just way more re that exactly Brother. Look, we gonna have to leave it there. Okay. Oh yeah. Um, and, and

once again, thank God for the video because I wouldn't have believed it. I wouldn't have believed story when you,

ain't nobody come in, no woman came in there shooting a, a gun in a police station. Left, left, left, breathing right, left, left breathing, and then left breathing. Right. And then was in court a couple of days later where she had a defense attorney, you know, take it up for, well, you know, she has three kids and, you know, and she, one of the kids got down syndrome and she's really stressed out. All right. So listen, we hope number one, I want to thank my brother. Chris P. Reed the co host with the most. So we thank you for tuning into another episode of A Black Executive Perspective Podcast with Chris Reed and myself talk about BEP's insights on the latest events and headlines that happened in the U S and we're going to continue to do this every couple of weeks. We're going to, you know, talk about the things that's going on and give you our points of view. But now I think it's time for what? Tony's Tidbit. All right. And the tidbit today is, you know, each event holds a lesson. Discussions aim to reveal these lessons. Foster a deeper understanding to inspire action and awareness in our ever evolving world. And that's why we talk about these things, because at the end of the day, we want to bring them to light. We want to learn from them. And then more importantly, hope, hopefully we can see change and inspire some people to do the same. To make these things better and these, this is why you need to continue to have these conversations with your friends and family. And look, not everybody's going to agree that is fine. Chris and I, as you can see here disagreed on a couple of things, right? But guess what? It's all about discussion and what we can learn from one another. So let's make sure that we do that. And then also we want to make sure that, uh, we employ you to tune in to our weekly segment, need to know witness singer, you know, don't miss this week's need to know segment with Dr. Nsenga Burton on A Black Executive Perspective Podcast. This is where Dr. Burton dives into timely and crucial topics, kind of like the one we did today, but she's so much deeper, so much more in depth to these things. And she shapes our community and world with her perspective and her views. Tune in again, unique insights and deepen your understanding of issues that matter. You don't want to miss it. Trust me. Exactly. You don't, because she's got some really good stuff coming up this Thursday, so check it out. So again, I hope you enjoyed our episode, BEP insights, navigating today's top headlines.

And then don't forget. Our call to action to incorporate less L E S S. Make sure that wherever you can, you learn, empathize, share, and stop. The L is for learn. Educate yourself on racial and cultural nuances that you can apply to your life and help others around you.

Exactly, Chris. And the E stands for empathy. Once you've learned, now you should be more empathetic to your brother and sister and other people that fall within your path. And

then the first S is for share. Share your insights. And enlighten others. Don't hide it. Divide it. Because these type of dialogues, these type of conversations are the only way we can grow collectively.

And then the final S, and this is something everybody can do. We want to stop. S stands for stop. To stop discrimination as it comes into your path. So in other words, if grandma says something at the Thanksgiving table that's inappropriate, you say, grandma, we don't believe in that. And you stop it right in there in your tracks. And by doing this, you're going to help us build a more. Understanding and fair world. And guess what? We'll be able to see the change that we all want to see. So remember less because less equals more. Don't forget to tune in to the next episode of A Black Executive Perspective Podcast,

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