in today's episode, we're delighted to welcome Ella Dove, who's come on to talk about her driving journey and her driving experiences. Ella's a journalist, an author, and a podcaster, but Ella also lost her right leg below the knee back in 2016 following an accident. And so of course, when we met Ella, we had loads of questions to ask her about her driving. So welcome.

Oh, well thank you very much for having.

It's, it's a pleasure. So obviously I know a little bit about your story, but people that are listening to this probably don't? Can you give us an insight into your driving journey when you're passed to where you are now?

Yeah, so I passed my driving test the first time, when I was 17, no, 18. Actually, I started learning at 17. It did take me. Well over a year. Lots of my friends did it a lot quicker than that. But as I'm sure we'll come on to later, I often got a bit panicky in my lessons. So that was kind of something that made it take longer. Uh, but I had a very patient instructor. So I learned to drive in a manual car. And then, my sister and I had a car that we shared, um, a little de w Mattis. It was tiny. It looked like something, a doll, you know, a doll car. So we had one of those, and we shared that, for a long time I went off to university, uh, in Southampton and I didn't take my car there, so I had a break, but in the kind of uni holidays I would be using this little car that in the meantime, my parents were kind of using as their runaround car to, you know, go to the so market whatever. So I was kind of driving on and off. Wouldn't say I ever did any sort of big journey. And then, uh, as you mentioned in 2016, I had an accident, which at that point I hadn't really been driving. Cause I was living in London. I wasn't driving in London at all. We'd sold the little car at that point. And in 2016 when I lost my leg, I had to obviously learn to drive an automatic, and that was a whole different thing, which I'm sure we'll talk about in more.

Fantastic. So going back to when you first learned them, what was it that you said you was a bit nervous about when you was learning to drive

I think the thing is I've always had a really terrible sense of direction and it kind of became a bit of a joke with my friends, like whenever we would be out and about. It would be like, oh God, let someone else, you know, navigate, let someone else find out which way to be going. Um, so that was one thing, which I have to admit is still not brilliant. So that was, one of the reasons. And then I think the other thing is just, when you first. Get behind a wheel. It is a really intimidating thing. And my grandpa always used to say, actually, a car is a dangerous weapon. And so I had like my grandpa, he was a very, very good driver, but I had his words kind of in my head all the time of, you know, like, oh, you could kill someone with this. So obviously that leads to a bit of panic as well, I think.

Yeah. It's about what could happen. Yeah, it definitely does. And those things that people say to you stick with you as well, like you say, particularly when it's somebody that you trust. Yeah. And somebody who's close to you.

Mm-hmm. definitely.

And so you say that you hadn't done any big journeys before your accident, and being in London, you didn't drive very regularly either. So it sounds as if potentially you hadn't really gained your full drive in confidence before your accident. Would that be right?

Yeah, I would say so. If we ever did do a big journey, if it was as a family, my mom would drive, or quite often my younger sister, she is a much kind of more confident driver than me. So, although I passed my test first, cuz I'm two years older, when she then passed two years later, she kind of became the main driver. So, You know, if we were going somewhere, I'd always just say, oh, you can drive. And she enjoyed it as well. Like she actively enjoyed it. So it kind of worked out for both of us that she just did all the driving.

It's, it's interesting you said that cuz a lot of people that come to me for the coaching is that when they want to get back driving, they've always avoided driving because there's no need. There's always someone else that's gonna do those journeys for them it's really interesting. It's very similar. Mm-hmm. So let's, let's move forward to the, learning to drive an automatic.

Yes. Yeah. So that was a big thing. I mean, so my car now, because I've lost my right leg. I have to have an adapted car if it's, I always joke, it's a shame I didn't lose my left leg, then I could just drive a normal automatic car. Um, But, because I've lost my right leg, uh, below the knee, I had to have, my car adapted. So, I've got this twin flip accelerator system. So my car has two accelerators and one flips up and the other one flips down and the brakes in the middle. So, it's really handy cuz it means other people. I mean, everyone's insured on my car, my fiance, my sister, and my mom are all insured on my car. That shows you, I just let them do it. Um, Yeah, so they can all drive it as well. No problem. It is funny though, cuz sometimes like one of us will forget to, you know, my mom will start driving and she's like, oh, the accelerator on the wrong side, off the drive and panicking and thinking, oh god.

What have you done with the accelerator where?

So, yeah, so that, that's always been quite amusing. But, I didn't get my car until quite recently, actually. I only got it in April because I moved to Kent in April. And that was the kind of catalyst for deciding that I wanted to have a car. I kind of didn't want to be reliant on my fiance driving me everywhere. Although if we go somewhere together, I'm happy for him to drive. I wanted to be able to kind of, you know, go and see friends or like go to the gym or go swimming, like on my own. I didn't always want to be kind of reliant on a lift. So I, so I had it in me to know that it was important for me to get a car and to know it was important to, to sort of tackle that hurdle. But I'd not owned my own car. Since that tiny little day w Matis when I was 17, 18. I'm now 31, so that's a long time, isn't it? But I kind of, the way I sort of started, learning to get used to, it happened actually before I got the car. While I was still living in London, I am a journalist, and I was at the time writing a series of articles or working on a series of articles all about driving for a Prima magazine. And one of them we said, oh, actually it'd be really interesting to talk about kind of driving with disabilities and, you know, hand controls. the different things that you can have. So, I said, I probably could do with kind of, you know, getting back behind the wheel. So through my job I managed to kind of wangle. Um, I went to one of the kind of driving centers. It was a place in Harlow. And it has a kind of like, Like a, a fake road al, almost like a, like a go-kart

Yeah.

you know, with that has a traffic light and a roundabout and all that sort of stuff. And it was there that, you don't, I don't think you necessarily have to do this, but because it had been such a long time, obviously I had my driving license. But I had to update my driving license to say that, you know, put different code on it because I was an

Yeah.

So I had a session with, a driving instructor there and also an occupational therapist in the car. Um, and they kind of like helped me through the, you know, learning how to use. My left foot for everything, which I must say did not come naturally. I mean, it's really weird. Like my right foot was kind of, you know, all my prosthetic was sort of twitching because it wanted to, do things cuz I think you kind of, it's muscle memory sometimes. So yes, we went round this little track, a few times and I kind of got a bit better and they, they said, yeah, like, what you really just need to do is practice now. But then it, I had another huge gap. I had another gap of about two years where I, again, cause I was living in London, didn't have a car, although I'd had that tiny little flavor of it. And after that, I'd, I was doing something with Ford and they kindly lent me and adapted, Ford Focus. So I was able to kind of drive, it was only for two weeks though. And then after that two weeks, I just didn't drive again for two years. So yeah, it was good to kind of get, you know, go to one of those centers and, and have kind of professionals helping me but I, I kind of wondered whether I would need driving lessons. Again, I didn't actually get them cuz I, my mom is very good so she kind of would help me instead, but, um, so yeah, that's a long answer to your question, isn't it?

Oh, but it's great because it's so much detail that I think, lots of people will never have thought. Lots of people will never have considered it. So it's really important information and there's so many similarities there as well. It's that avoidance that, do I need to do it? Can I get away without doing it? So what was the biggest challenge? coming back to driving.

Uh, I think, I mean obviously there, there was the obvious sort of physical challenge, which, you know, that just took practice and now I very, like I would say now it's all the other things that, the challenge, the actual, using my left foot now, it's amazing. I. I've trained my brain and that kind of just comes very naturally now. So that's quite, interesting. And now when I'm in the car with someone else, and I kind of, you know, if they've gone too fast, like sometimes my sister is a little bit of a girl racer at times, I'm sure she wouldn't mind me saying, um, and I, you'd kind of do, you know, you're in the passenger seat pressing an invisible break and I'm doing it with my left foot now, like my, you know, my remaining foot. Whereas before I would be doing that with my right foot. So that's quite interesting. But the other, I think the other biggest challenge really is just the, it, it's ongoing. I think it is the confidence thing. What I realized recently is when I know a route. So for example, I live 25 minutes away from my parents' house. I've driven that route. I've known those roads. Growing up, and I've driven that route so many times before, I don't even, even though it involves like a motorway for a little bit, I don't even think about that. I just do it. But, on Sunday, for instance, I'm meant to be going to Marlo to visit a friend. It's an hour and a half from where I am in Kent and. Said to, I mean my fiance's invited to, but I said, I already have said to him like, can you do the driving? And if he can't come, I'm very likely to cancel it and postpone seeing my friend because I don't want to do that on my own. So there are still things, I think one of the huge things is when I dunno where I'm going, um, that kind of. Really freaks me out. It's less about the, it's less about the act of driving and more about like, what if I get lost? Even though, my mom says if you take the wrong exit, doesn't matter. You know? And I know deep down it doesn't matter, but we have this irrational fear, don't we? That like, oh, the world's gonna end and Yeah. Actually one quick story I can tell you is when I first got my car, This is quite a funny story. When I first got my car, I live really near the big shopping center Bluewater in Ken. I live like seven minute drive from it. Dangerous. So I decided, um, I, I wanted to go to John Lewis or something, so I decided I was gonna drive there on my own. I was really kind of like, yeah, I can do this. It's like such a quick drive. I got there fine. I was absolutely. Thrilled with myself. Like I think I even rang my mom and was like, I did it. And she was like, like a five minute drive away. Of course you did. You're fine. But getting outta bluewater for anyone that has been there, it's getting in seems to be fine. Getting out is a nightmare. There are so many different exits, like so many different that, you know, roundabouts and like different roads going different. And then there's loads of roadworks at the moment anyway. Then my, I've had a fault with my car recently, just to add this, the infotainment like system. The satin nav system, just cuts out randomly. I've had a new unit Litted now, thankfully. But anyway, I have my satin nav on, so I was all plugged in. I had ways on, I was all ready to go, and I got to the first round about leaving Bluewater and my screen went black and I couldn't. Couldn't reach my phone because obviously I, I was driving, I couldn't like get my phone, do it on my phone and put my phone in the cradle cuz I was driving. So I just had to guess which way I was going. Anyway, went the completely wrong way and basically almost went, through the D tunnel. I was so close to going through the dark tunnel and I, it was, there was one exit. Before the dart for tunnel that thankfully, cuz I was panic. I was, I mean, oh, at the time it was all, I was hysterically crying. I was like trying to fight, trying to get my phone and like I managed, I had my phone on my lap and I, but I couldn't get the satin nav up obviously, but I managed to click onto like my favorites and ring George, my fiance. And I was like trying to tell him what had happened, but I was sort of hyperventilating also, I was on the motorway driving, so I was like, I dunno where I'm help. And he was like, how am I supposed to be able to help? can I do? He was like, just pull over somewhere. I was like, I can't, I'm on the motorway. Anyway, I saw an exit. I took the exit. Somehow I ended up in some sort of industrial estate. I pulled into this car park and I don't, don't even know where I was, somewhere in Dartford. Pulled into this car park, sent George my location and basically just said, I'm just staying here until you come and find me.

Oh.

He said, right. Okay, well I was cooking dinner, but okay, I'll, I'll get in the car. I was only sort of like 10 minutes from my house still, but to me it felt like I'd got, you know, gone really the wrong way and I was, Sitting in the car and obviously I was so scared to start driving again. Cause if the satin nav cut out again, it could have happened again. So it was just the perfect storm. And anyway, it turned out that somehow I'd gone through, it was like a private industrial estate and he had to speak to someone at a barrier to open a barrier. And he said, how did you even get in here? And, but I honestly don't remember a barrier because it was all a blur. I must have followed another car through this barrier. I've gone into this kind of like private industrial statement because I was in such a panic. I said, I don't remember a barrier. And he was like, I literally had to speak to a bloke in like a box by a barrier, to say my girlfriend's in there and she's having some sort of panic about driving. Can you let me And then I followed. Then I followed him home.

Yeah.

there we go.

And I think the way you describe it we've all got lost and we've all sort of like gone, I have no idea where I am, but it's that, what your brain does to you. Like you say, you didn't even notice the barrier, so you clearly followed someone else. Your brain, the logic part of your brain just disappears and you're just a bundle of emotions, aren't

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it, it, now look, now looking back, it is absolutely hilarious, but obviously at the time it

wasn't at the time, never. It's completely the opposite, isn't it? It's like, like the panic and you can't make the decisions, and it's like what happens? You know what? And you mentioned the what if questions were coming out as well, and it's like, oh,

Yeah. I mean, you know, if I'd have, if I'd have gone through the tunnel, my mom was like, you would've just had to come back. And then I was like, but then I would've had to do the bridge. That's scary.

Not to mention pain for it.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know if my car was registered at that point actually, then I probably would've had a fine

Yeah. Now then you would've been in trouble. That was terrible. But how, I mean, clearly it now makes a funny story for you. So it feels okay now to

Oh yeah. I mean, it is funny now. Yeah. since then. So, but that did, I mean, it taught me a lot because that incident then made me scared of going to Bluewater so, so then for a long time, even if I had to just go to, I don't know, like I had my flu jab at Boots in Bluewater, for example, and I would make George come with me even though he had no reason to need to go there. I would say. Like, I'll drive, but can you come in the car with me? And it was always not on, not getting there, it was always leaving Bluewater that I was terrified of. So even if I had the tiniest little errand that he, he absolutely did not need to be there for, I, I would make him get in the car with me and look, thankfully he's very patient and he did come with me. Um, but now he has started saying, I'm come, I'll come with you, but you are driving. Um,

And you are navigating

Well, I, well, yeah, I mean, blue water is just about okay now, but um, we have the SAT nav on and also my sat nav doesn't break anymore, so that's good. Yeah, it did it, and then when I did it, I, it took me months and months, so that was like April time, and I think it was, oh, yeah, I had a friend come to stay in October, so from April to October I wouldn't drive there on my own. And then in October she wanted to go shopping and George was like, please don't make me go shopping. I really don't wanna walk around the shop with you and your friend. And she doesn't drive this friend, so I, so I was a bit nervous about her being my passenger because, you know, it wasn't really someone who could help me. Um, cuz she doesn't really have any road since she's never learnt to, she is thinking of it now, but she's never learnt to drive. But actually it was good in a way because it meant that she didn't panic me because she was just sitting there as a pass. You know, if you're a driver you might say, oh, take this exit or do this, or, but because it was someone who hadn't got any driving experience, she was just perfectly chilled and was like, I trust you. And that was kind of what I needed. Um, and that kind of got me over my fear. But yeah, from April to October, I was scared of that journey. So,

Wow. But also that was quite new in you having your car as well, because you'd only had really had your car from April as well, hadn't you? So it's, it's still early days.

yeah.

For you really, and building that, rebuilding that confidence that you, you didn't have in full before or anyway. And then those big gaps. And I, I think in driving lessons, you know, I think we, we don't teach people these sort of things like, okay, you know, this certain route, can you get from here to here? You go, well, yeah, I know the roads and everything, but what would happen if that road was closed? And it's like, ah. And then you see people. I won't say fears, but it's like their face changes, their body language changes and it's like, oh, he didn't tell me this. And I said, well, this might happen. What would you do? And it's having those coping strategies, someone sitting next to you or the phone and the satin nav or you know, whatever it may be, that's just gonna help you, isn't it?

Yeah, definitely.

so your mum was a good driver. I'm not saying I'm not a good driver, but I taught my kids how to get lost for years before they could drive I'm an expert at getting lost and having to find my way back again. So well, I suppose I've got a confession to make as well. Then as, as Tracy has, I get lost as well, but it doesn't phase. So we, people just say to me, cliff, why are we here? And I go, well, are we just coming this way? And then we're gonna turn right? And then we're gonna turn. And they go, oh, okay. he's got lost.

Yeah. Well, I, I do, I do think that the fear of getting lost has kind of partly come from being on car journeys as a child. Cuz my mom, although she's a very confident driver, well there's certain things she hates. Number one is she will not go anywhere near the car when there's a tiniest whiff of snow, hates snow. Um, but number two is, doesn't like getting lost and she. Would always be really like, it would be, you know, my dad would be holding up a map like this trying to, and he is not very, I, I'm quite similar to my dad. He's not very good at navigating. So as her passenger, he's quite frustrating. Cause he's like, I think it's that when she's, I'm now. Um, so, you know, so she would get quite stressed and so I obviously in the back with my sister would see that stress and maybe some of it transferred as well as the poor navigation from my dad. So I've got a great, a great combo there, haven't I?

I love it. I love it. So another time we'll love to talk about goals, how, how to approach these things with little mini goals. I love, I love, I love people's stories because although at the time they're not, Not very nice.

Hmm.

you can do is you can turn it into something that's not so scary, you know? And some of the stories you've told there I think are just fantastic. I think they're, they're brilliant and it's, and that is sometimes as well. The, the problem I think people have, they keep it inside them. Mm-hmm. and it, they don't, yeah. I'm, I don't drive because I'm, I'm scared of getting lost, but it actually was telling the story as a. Sort of like a fable as well. And it is a bit of fun, can actually help people in that situation I think be overcome that. I think loads of people will relate to that idea of confidence around getting lost. I think that's a thing for lots of people. Yeah. So Ella, what advice would you give to, well, to anybody who's having confidence issues, either because they've had life-changing circumstances or just because they're not that confident. What? What would you say to them?

Um, I would say keep going. I do think, I mean, we, you know, that practice makes perfect. We've all heard it said, but I do think it's true and I do think that. The more you drive, the more confident you become. I would like to drive to my prosthetics appointments in ethics without my mom in the car at some point, but I haven't, haven't got to that yet. But you know, I think it is baby steps, isn't it? And you mentioned goals there. So it is about definitely setting kind of small, achievable goals. And it's similar to. When I was recovering from my accident, I did a lot of work around goal setting and the sort of short term goals, which might have been get dressed on my own or, I don't know, go down an escalator or use public transport. And then there's bigger goals like. Go on holiday so it's kind of similar. I think adopting that same mentality to driving with the smaller goals and then the bigger goals is actually a really good strategy. I should really take my own advice

Yeah,

that's what I should, that's what I would say.

Yeah, and exactly that. You know, if your big goal is to drive to that appointment, then breaking it down into the, okay, so what do I. Need to do, be able to do before I do that. And then what do I need to do before I can do that bit and, yeah, breaking

know why it is? It's cuz it involves the dart for tunnel again,

Oh, Yeah. So there we go. That that's, that's one of yours. So what do you need to do before you can drive the DART for tunnel? Yeah, that's, that's gotta be an early goal. Or is there a route round? The dart for tunnel.

Hmm. There might be,

It might be, I don't know. I could ask my

probably not.

No, but I was just thinking probably not, not without hours, but you could go the M 25 the other way round, but it takes me a little bit.

I'm not sure it's worth it.

Well, that's good. That's. Fantastic. So thank you so much for telling me stories and, uh, your driving journey.

Oh, you're welcome.

And good luck with setting that first goal of the Dartford Tunnel.

Thank you.

and then you got the bridge coming back.

Yeah. Do you know what? I did the bridge the other day. I, well actually I've done both, but with my mom in the car and the bridge doesn't, when you are driving, you don't really know you are on a bridge. Um, there are ho there are really, there's one really horrible bridge in France that I, in Normandy called the Ponton Normandy. It's like famous bridge. I would never in a million years, one drive that if you Google it, it's just, it's so steep and so narrow and very windy as well. So, compared to that, Dart for bridge. Absolutely fine.

So thank you very much. Yeah, thank you so much, Ella, for joining us. Thank you for giving up your time. Yes, it's been a pleasure.

Oh, thank you for having me. I've loved it.

That was a really fun chat with Ella. It wasn't I love, I love people's stories and I think that's what really. Makes this podcast quite interesting. This. It's people's conversation that we have. It's the stories that they tell us and the end result is that we've all got a story to tell about driving. Yep. Definitely. And I think what was interesting for me there was that when we first met Ella, And heard that she was an amputee and asked her about how does that affect her driving? We were sort of imagining the we'd be talking much more about the adaptations that she's had to make and the challenges that she's had to overcome. In terms of her driving confidence. But that wasn't really the case. Was it? No, it was the same scenarios that she was having before. If you had the adaptive car, so it was the fear of getting lost and you know, those sorts of things that you normally have as a driver. Yeah. Which lots of people would be able to relate to. And actually, Having to learn to drive again with an adapted car with the pedal on the other side. Of course that had a lot of challenges and that was responsible for a lot of the gaps that Ella had in her driving, which also affected her confidence. But as she says, once she got used to using that adapted car. Using her left leg instead of a right leg is no longer a problem. And that isn't something that she thinks about. And that was through practice though. Wasn't it? Yeah, definitely. That's exactly what we keep saying to people is practice. Go and practice and practice again until you feel confident. Yeah. The other thing that we forgot to mention. Whereas we mentioned that Ella lost her leg below the knee in an accident. We forgot to mention that that was completely unrelated to driving. Yeah. It wasn't a driving accident or anything like that. It was while she was out running. Yeah. And if you want to find out more about Ella's story, then you can see her Ted talk. You can listen to her podcast. All of the contact details will be in the show notes. And we look forward to talking to some more people about their driving stories in the future as well. Definitely. And until next time, have a great day. Whatever you're doing. If you have enjoyed our podcast, did you know, we can also help you get back on the road to driving confidence? If you want to have the feeling of being safe. Be able to go shopping without relying on public transport. Create more time in your daily schedule. Become a confident driver. Visit friends or relatives that live further away. Drive to and from places of work. Feel safer when driving on faster roads. Then our coaching packages will help you create the easy to follow action plan to your driving confidence. Using our unique drive Calm system within our coaching sessions backed up by the free access to the confident drivers website and all the wonderful tools and techniques it has to offer. You will feel confident that you can take that first step in getting back driving. So if you'd like to find out more information, go to the confident drivers website.