Hello, and welcome to the Borealis experience, I mean

holster raw. And I'm very excited to be posting this

interview for you here. Nate Rifkin grew up in a household

that was really not loving and compassionate. and that in turn,

turn him into a very angry child, and young person. And

this anger, he carried around for so many years, also turned

into depression, a full on depression, let's say. And it

went so far that he reached a point where he was really

thinking of suicide and ending this miserable life he was

living in. So Nate will not only share his story with you today,

but he will also let us know about the tools, the big steps,

the small steps that he took, in order to live a fulfilled life.

He used to be very socially awkward. And as I said, at the

beginning, angry, and now he met the woman of his dreams, and

wrote a book. And it's helping many more people out there who

struggled with depression, anxiety, or even suicidal

thoughts. Welcome to this show.

Nate reskin.

Oh, no, thank you, or Thank you for having me on. And yeah, I

hope this story can really help inspire some people and give

them some great direction. But the short version is, I was born

into a family that was really devoid of any kind of love, or,

like, my parents were not compassionate people, I was very

angry child. And I didn't really understand that this was kind of

an emotionally abusive environment, I didn't have any

perspective. And as I got older, my anger got more and more

turned inward. So I got more and more sad, I got more and more

depressed. And as a teenager, which is socially awkward, which

piled on, it just got worse and worse, because I was angry to

begin with. And then I got more frustrated, which made me more

socially awkward. And I, I didn't really care much about

school could could not get a date to save my life. But I

figured if I could go to college, and move out of my town

and move away from my family, move away from the people, I

knew I could start over. And my first day at college, I realized

how wrong I was because it didn't matter how far I

traveled, or if I surrounded myself with total strangers, new

people, I was still myself, I was still carrying my inner

baggage with me. So they, I didn't really make any friends

in college and my grades started to slip. And the only light in

my life at that point was that I liked working out. I liked

exercising and I thought maybe somehow I can be like an

entrepreneur in some way, like own a gym, be a personal

trainer, or produce products on health and fitness. Like how to

products like how to work out. So I started thinking, I hate

college. I'm hitting my life right now. And if I'm going to

be a business owner of some kind, do I need a college

degree? Maybe not. I don't think anyone's gonna ask for it. So I

dropped I dropped that. And I said on my last day of it was

three semesters in is my last day I still remember I said

goodbye. I didn't really nobody noticed I was gone. So in my

early 20s, I moved into a condo in Boulder, Colorado, and I

started you know, trying to actually did create a business

selling fitness products online. with that. I actually partnered

with my brother, he was like the face the business. He knew a lot

about yoga and other forms of exercise. And I just kind of was

behind the scenes handling everything. And I have a knack

for writing. I had a knack for advertising but I was terrible.

Everything else like I had no knowledge of how to like run a

business or even just how to run my own personal finances. So I

started maxing out my credit cards. And it just got worse and

worse like the same downward spiral that happened like

socially for me, it was now happening financially for me, so

I was getting pretty scared. And just to get through the day I

started drinking vodka every morning, like probably about a

couple of shots of vodka in the morning mixed with like an

energy drink. It wasn't Red Bull. It was kind of like that.

And that's how he started every single day. And sometimes I

think I had another one another drink in the afternoon, early

afternoon. And my business started getting worse and worse,

I started going into deeper and deeper debt. Things weren't

working out my brother and things weren't working out

anywhere else. And this was, while I was doing like, goal

setting and visualizing my success, and all kinds of other

stuff. Like affirmations. I even had a vision board. When if

anyone ever came over to my condo, I like hid division for

us, I was kind of embarrassed about that sort of thing. So I

was in a rough spot. And this was like, like you said, this is

right around when I started thinking about killing myself,

because my thoughts would just loop and loop and loop and loop

and I felt like such a loser. And I didn't know what to do. I

was so frustrated because everything that was supposed to

work didn't work. And I was really, really trying, I was

really trying.

Fortunately, I had someone who was kind of a quasi mentor, and

he was he was teaching business. And I'd kind of go to his

meetups quarterly with other people. And he was into a

spiritual tradition called Taoism. And I didn't, he didn't

really talk about it too much. But eventually He's like, let me

show you some meditations. And they're really cool. And he

talked about I was like, Look, I actually go, I go to China, and

I learned these things. And these, these meditations go

back, like 1000s of years, they're very powerful. People

would do them in like, become enlightened, or they meditate on

the tops of mountains are in caves. And this like, is an

interesting demand. Like, I was drawn to it. I was like, well,

this is kind of cool. This isn't like the usual, the usual kind

of boring, just sitting, you know, sit on a cushion quieting

your mind type stuff, because I wasn't. I mean, I dabbled in

spiritual stuff here and there, but I'm like, you know, show me

the results. It's I I've got my goals that I want to achieve.

And it's like, I'm not just drawn to this stuff, just

because I'm, you know, drawn to it. I will I want there to be a

result of some kind. Well, finally, with like, the Dallas

spiritual path, my teachers like, Look, this is going to

help you in the rest of your life. Just try out this one

meditation. It's super cool. It's even, like rooted in

martial arts. So and it was a meditation happy to be done

standing up. So I was like, Alright, let me try. I started

with 60 seconds per day. And a funny thing happened. I started

to actually feel better about myself, like the thoughts that

used to loop and loop. They started to like, and they're all

and then of course, it was self hatred. So these negative

thoughts that started to go down, it starts late, it was

like a dial taking and quieting down. I was like, well, that's

nice. That's cool. I wasn't even trying to do that. But I'll take

it. And then I realized my schedule is like, I'd get up,

take a shower, I will do a minute of meditation. And I'd

add a little bit of time every day. And I'd still go drink. I

didn't stop. But I noticed something interesting. I would

feel good from the meditation, then I would go drink. And I,

you know, I still like it's such a mess. So the alcohol did make

me feel better on the surface level. But as I kept going, as

the days went by, the meditation made me feel better and better.

It was like catching up to how good the alcohol made me feel.

And one day, I felt as good right before I took a drink. It

just kind of the drink made me just feel more drunk. So I'm

like, I wonder what's going to happen if I keep going? Well,

within a day or two, I was feeling so good. And from the

meditation that when I drank the alcohol, like and it was

sometime in the morning, I felt worse. And that's when I stopped

drinking. So this is just as just my story. I'm not saying

it's like meditation, like Haha, you could stop drinking, but

that's what happened to me. And I and again, it was like feeling

good. I wasn't necessarily trying to do that.

Hmm. Can I add some to that? Like, I feel a lot of times

people don't understand that. alcoholism is there to it has a

purpose. It's helping us to feel better to cope and right. So you

have to replace it with something. And it doesn't have

to be meditation but but something that is not

destructive, self destructive, in order to let go of that

because if you don't have something to replace it, you

have that void With us, so painful to sit. And so and this

is what people are probably most scared of. Right?

Yeah, that that makes laws. I love how you put that like it's

it, there's a purpose to it. And it kind of it ties in to how I

stopped because I added in something first right before I

built a positive habit. So as as I ratchet that up, the other

habit, the negative one kind of fell away, it just kind of

naturally disintegrated. Yeah. So I was like, well, this is

this is cool, because this is like real results. And I'm all

about that. I'm like, I want like to, I want to feel

something I want to experience something I want to benefit from

it. So I start other people at this point, we're like, Nate,

you're you're looking different to something different about

you. And I like didn't tell him what I was doing. So I'm like,

Oh, this is cool. So it's not even just in my head. So I

remember, after practicing for a few months, and just gradually

feeling better and better every day. I had an experience where I

felt like I was doing a meditation. And I felt like my

body started glowing like a light bulb. And it felt really

good too. It just felt I just felt really warm. I didn't I

didn't have the language for it. But I was having like a

spiritual experience. All I knew is that just like, Oh, this is

cool. I feel wonderful. This is great. So it lasted several

minutes. And then I like river is still in my condo is living

in my condo in Boulder. And I sat down on my futon and I'm

just like, this is like, this is the only thing in my life that

is working for me. And it's working really well. I feel

great if I found something that actually works. So I'm going to

dedicate my life to it. And that's sort of like the

beginning of how I turned my inner life around is. And that

was 12 years ago about and I've been I've been diving deeper

into Taoism ever since then. So that's that's kind of the

beginning of my journey. Mm hmm. Wow.

And I read something beautiful the other day that ask people

who went through intense trauma and maybe even suicidal

thoughts. We were meant to go through that journey in order to

help people who are struggling today, like in some religions,

they for like what do you say for saw for saw that there is

going to be very morbid and times where humanity has to rise

up and catch up and then has to go through very painful periods.

And you seem to Yeah, you went through that pain and learned to

Yeah, transform it into something positive now and now

you can inspire others who are struggling to follow you or to

start a similar path. How is it for you? And your family? Like

your parents? Did you ever reconnect with them? Or did you

leave them back then? And now you kind of drifted apart? Did

you have like reconnection? Or not so much? That's,

that's a great question. That's, that's a cool one. I've never

been asked that before. That's awesome. It's very, very

interesting, because I was when I when I went to college, and

basically beyond I pretty much didn't talk to my parents. My my

father and I and my parents are divorced. They divorced when I

was seven. My father and I would occasionally have conversations,

but it was very, it was very surface surface level. It was

very superficial. But we got along. And my mother and I often

would would go like, like maybe a year without a conversation.

We'd have like a yearly conversation and wouldn't be a

good one necessarily. And I knew and they're in very emotional

shutdown places. So what's interesting though, is I

monitored this when I began doing my like Dallas meditation

practice and started like slowly turning my life around. My

parents on their own, separately started to seem to be more

mentally healthy, which you know, I just made a mental note

because their path is not my path. And I'm not their

caretaker. But I made a note like, isn't that interesting? So

as time went on, I still really rarely spoke to my mother until

maybe about what was it three years ago, or three and a half

years ago, because I actually started working with a

therapist. And that side note, some people like might wonders

is like way you went on the spiritual path for 13 years and

then worked with the therapist. Well, sure. I love using like

multiple modalities to like, help me out. And this guy is

really good. And he actually encouraged me to reconnect with

my parents. But he was very, very deliberate and intentional

about how to do it. Because his whole thing is like, Nate, look,

when you came into this world, you had an emotionally abusive

relationship with your parents, and they were the adults, they

were in charge, and you your child didn't really know any

better. Now's your chance to have a new conversation with

your parents where you lead them and where you are in charge.

Yeah. And he said, and you can do it on the phone, and you can

get really quick practice rounds. So one of the one of the

best things he ever had me do is call up each pair individually.

So I'd be like, Hey, Mom, I'd like to talk. And I'd like to

actually talk about our history, and some other things, would you

be willing to do that? And and she said, that, Oh, absolutely,

I'm like, great, I will get back to you. And I end the

conversation, because I'm the one steering the ship and is.

And I did the same thing with my dad, which was super awkward.

But the long story, short of that is I'm at a point now where

I've learned that my mother is still in a pretty bad place.

However, I am connecting more with my father. So it's pretty

interesting how when one goes on a kind of on a journey of

putting their life back together and thriving, that some times

things can work out with family, mostly I've seen the distance is

the result. But sometimes that's, that's a healthy thing.

And sometimes it's very, very necessary. And we have to, we

have to really release our dreams of that storybook ending

with the same people that might have heard us. Mm hmm.

No matter the outcome. It is so important, though to feel

differently now about your parents and you used to you

might have felt very angry, you are maybe very resentful. And

you were still carrying that anger inside of you. Maybe if

you didn't even feel it and to now, change the relationship is

such a huge thing for your healing process to for theirs as

well. For yours, to be able to let go and to not be that victim

anymore to know that today. You can make your decisions, you can

set boundaries you can have those conversations or not, is

incredibly healing and empowering. So thank you for for

sharing that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, it's my pleasure. And I really love how you said the

anger that you might not even feel because that's exactly

where I was. Someone told me it's like all your angry

parents. It's like, No, I don't care. I don't I don't care.

Sure, yeah.

How was it? Like in relationships? Like romantic

relationships? Did you like as soon as you forgive your parents

or kind of knew that? You, you have a different sense of self

now? Did that change the way you were relating maybe even to your

friends, but also romantic partners?

Yeah, yeah. And in fact, being able to relate differently to

romantic partners was the was the purpose behind reconnecting

with my parents? Because my therapist was very, very smart.

And I was just an I had a very direct intentions like, Oh,

yeah, I would love to, you know, have a great relationship and

maybe get married. And he could see it's just like, Nate may

want that. But we need to steer him back to his parents. And I'm

like, what, what do I have to talk to them for? I'm over that

easily. And he's like, trust Trust me. Trust me on this.

Well, he actually he did more than say, trust me. He talked

about like, Look, I've actually done gone through this without

Other people, and it really helps. So yes, because what

happened was, as a result of me, being able to steer the

conversation with my parents, whether the relationship had a

happier or more loving outcome or not, I changed the way I

related to them. And I kind of rewired my brain for relating to

them. And they were my original programming. So what happened

was, yeah, when I would talk to it could be on a date I gave,

when I talked to a woman on a date, all of a sudden, I was a

lot more open and fun and spontaneous about where I would,

I would, you know, go with the conversation. Because here's an

interesting tidbit. You know, guys who were kind of like, it's

like, ah, I struggle with dating, because, you know, women

say I'm boring. Like, that's because you're angry. And

you're, but you're, you're, you've got a lid on it, you're

shut down as a result. So there's, there's a lot of like,

what people see on the other side is like, guys just kind of

boring. It was a flat conversation. The reason there's

no liveliness is because there's so much emotional baggage,

stuffing down half of your energy as a human being. So as a

result, you're going to come off flat. And because your feedback

is like boring, you never realize it's really the anger.

That's what needs to be resolved. Wow,

that is such a thing. I know, people who will listen to this

will be like, holy I you know, sometimes we're so close to the

to the key to the solution, but we just don't see it. And you

made it very visible just now with the lead on and, and the

board. Like, I never thought of that. Also, when when you blame

others to be boring, it's usually yourself. Like you're

not allowing a flow of conversation. And, and then as a

result, you blame the other person or she was so boring. She

was so closed up. But it was all you who were not capable of

being okay was who you are and confident in a conversation.

Right? Yeah, yeah. Cuz when you say someone, well, someone's

boring. It's like, well, they're a human being. Did you have any

compassion for just being able to hang out and see the light

and another human being? There's always that, yeah, or just be

like, I appreciate where that person is on their journey or

something. You can say it's like, well, we didn't resonate

that Okay, fine. But, but yeah, and saying someone else's

boring. It's just like, it's kind of it really is just one

more flavor of the circumstances had power over me. It's

crazy. How good for you. When you first gave up alcohol when

you first dove into meditation? Did you have situations maybe

it's due, you don't remember anymore. But situations where

you had a choice where it was like, actually, like it was good

with the alcohol, I can go back. You know, where you had to make

a decision? Or was it very clear that meditation is taking over

now and this is your path?

It was honestly, it was very clear to me because I did stop

drinking because of willpower. It really just didn't feel good

anymore. That's just what happened to me. Now, there were

there were there were other things in my life where there

was more willpower required, like when it came to like paying

bills regularly, or keeping, you know, keeping my place clean, or

being more social, where I had to remind myself, hey, this

spiritual walking, taking helps, but that's all it's going to do

is help. It's going to give me the inner strength to do what's

best for me, but I still have to do what is best for me. I can't

use meditation to swap out hard work. It's an adjunct. So So

yeah, it was I had those situations for sure. And I still

do today. Mm hmm. Yeah, I

think it's, it's part of our lives and you just got to

embrace it and see that it's okay. You just don't need to

engage in it anymore.

Yeah, and I think a lot of people get involved in sort of,

they dive into their spiritual part of life and maybe

meditation to escape or To get something where it's just like,

well, I couldn't it's kind of like people who kind of dive

into the law of attraction versus like, I can't do

anything. Right? Well, let me let me go try this spiritual

thing. And and it's almost like a way to bypass away that they

really do need to grow inwardly. So it's, it's, it's a, I've just

don't kill the messenger, but I made, it's just like, Look, I

have found that the spiritual path is a part of your growth.

And if you can't sort of use it to avoid an inner maturing that

you need to go through.

Yeah, that's so wonderful, thank you so much. I feel like it's

been so valuable already, everything that you've shared.

If there was three things that you had to write down for a

person who's maybe not quite there yet, but who had maybe a

little bit of an awakening, listening to you now, what would

be the three steps or maybe tools that you would recommend

for a person to help themselves.

The first is having a meditative practice. And I love like the

really simple foundational practice of breathing into one's

belly and feeling the breath going into your belly. And And

what I'd write down for this person is one of the three steps

is we have we're an information overload, there's so much out

there. But the power for meditation is taking the time to

feel, feel the energy, because the more you feel the energy,

the more energy you'll build. And the more you focus on

feeling, the more sensitive you're going to get to it. So

songs, songs, just like that. Now feel nothing for meditation,

heck, I can really, okay, I was that guy. It's not going to be

overnight. It is a muscle that must be built and, and sitting

quietly, and breathing into your belly is a great way to do it.

And also by focusing on your breath, you're going to calm

down your mind without trying to fight your mind. Yeah, so the

second thing I would say for someone is like the habit of a

meditative practice like that, which could be a very, very

powerful one. Because I think, by the way, some people won't be

like, Oh, just sitting and breathing into your belly.

That's no, come on, give me give me the real goods. It's like no,

that that really is that really is a very effective, powerful

practice. So the second thing I'd say is, it's not about it,

fighting your it's not about making enemy of your thoughts. I

spent my first 25 years being at odds with my thoughts and and

having this clash with my own thoughts. when really it was a

matter of stepping off the treadmill of Well, let me think

positive Oh, no, I'm not thinking positive. Oh, shoot,

I'm gonna attract something bad. I can let me just shut up. Like,

why do I keep living as it's like, and most the time, I was

just thinking about something as angry about the, the reason a

meditative practice works so well is you get to jump off that

treadmill. It's like, I'm not gonna participate in it, it's

not a matter of like, Well, let me try it out. Think my thoughts

somehow it's like a dog chasing its tail, I'm just not going to

participate. So And the third thing I would say is that, it's,

it is like, an it's part of your life, like, exercise, or making

sure your sleep is good. or working on your career instead

of overnight. Think daily discipline, and the results will

take care of themselves over the long term. Be pat yourself on

the back just for putting in that five minutes per day if

you're building the habit. And, and, and, and what will happen

is maybe in that week, you know, you're gonna be like, Alright,

this is nothing much. Maybe that month, you'll be like, well, I'm

getting some results. But I don't know, this doesn't really

seem like, keep going. Because over a period of several months,

you might be like, I guess there's something to this. Other

is, it's like, well, I'm feeling a little bit better. People are

treating me better. Life's getting a little bit better.

It's like Well, yeah, yeah, that's, that's great. Let's go

to the point because what's gonna happen is five years from

now, you'll look back and you'll go Thank God, I did that. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's, that is the key. So that's what I would say.

Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Maybe start out and do it as you brush

your teeth right? couple times a day, just a couple minutes and

see what happens. Become familiar with your thoughts.

Become familiar with your monkey mind up here and then don't

engage. If it's not positive. If it's not leading anywhere good,

then just choose to not engage and yeah,

very Absolutely.

Because it doesn't matter what the thoughts are. You can still

breathe into your belly. It's like, Okay, I understand. I

understand that. This is just like, My thoughts are screaming

louder than ever. Oh, look, I can still breathe into my belt.

Yes. Beautiful. Thank you so much name for your time. That

was a very, very good time and awesome to get to know you. And

then Ben, if there is listeners out here who want to reach out

to you, is there any platform that you can provide with or

should they just buy your book? Of course mentioned your book as

well? Is there a way to reach you if there's questions?

Well, there I do have a blog. So on Nate Rifkin calm it's just

just my name. And I post regularly. And, and yeah, for a

really kind of deep, like, get into the nitty gritty of the

story and kind of be held by the hand and lead through a lot of

this. A lot of the factors in spiritual walk. You know, I took

three years to write this book, and it's on Amazon. It's called

the standing meditation. And actually, I even have a website,

the standing meditation calm, which, which just goes to the

Amazon page, but makes things easy. So that that that would be

the way I mean, I wrote I wrote that book, in terms like if

some, if someone were I was at, you know, 13 years ago. This is

the book I would want hand it to them.

Mm hmm. That is so beautiful. Wonderful. So I will make sure

to put that in the show notes as well. And yeah, otherwise, thank

you so much for your time here today. Well, thank you or it's

been really, really wonderful. Thank you so much for listening

to this interview. And if you have any questions, reach out to

me on facebook. Aurora Eggert is my name there are on Instagram,

the Borealis experience. And if you enjoy my content here,

please leave me a review on Apple podcast, who would mean

the world to me. Thank you, and I will be out there very soon