00:00:00 Sana: Have you ever walked into a yoga space and felt like your body showed up wrong? Like the room was built for a body that isn't yours, or a nervous system that doesn't behave like yours. And then someone says, okay, relax. Just breathe. Witches. Yes, it is helpful, sometimes helpful, but sometimes it feels like being told to be, you know, just be different. Now, today, listeners, we are going to talk about a version of yoga that can be surprising for people. Aerial yoga and how it can become not a performance, not a circus act, not an Instagram post, but a support. A real one for real bodies, real brains, real lives.

00:01:04 Sana: So welcome back, dear listeners, to The Mindful Living, where we talk about mental wellness in a way that actually fits inside a human life. I am your host, as always here, and our guest today, listeners is someone who lives at a really interesting intersection yoga, creativity, and accessibility. She has been practicing the meditative art of Sumi Sumi e ink brush painting since childhood, discovered yoga while studying visual art at RMIT in nineteen ninety eight and what started as maybe I'll teach part time but became a full vocation. She teaches from a purpose built studio called Garden of Yoga in the back garden of her home in Northcote with her husband Rane, and they co-host the Flow Artists podcast. And she has just written a book that I think it's going to matter. A lot of people, especially people who have felt left out of yoga spaces, eight limbs of aerial yoga, adapting practice for accessibility, neurodiversity and physical support, published by The Singing Dragon in twenty twenty six. So listeners, let's meet our beautiful guest, Jo Stewart. Jo, welcome to the show. And I'm really, really glad that you are here with us.

00:02:39 Jo Stewart: Thank you so much. And thank you for that beautiful introduction. I'm so happy to talk to you today.

00:02:44 Sana: Amazing. Amazing. Um, okay, so so without even doing any research on anything, like, you know, when I think about aerial yoga, it's mostly for me. Um, like, you know, um, it's like, it looks like a beautiful, um, kind of a ballet dancing. Um, like I'm trying to visualize it. It looks to me like a beautiful ballet dancing in there, which is, of course, it is a different kind of a, you know, creativity and, and artistic, uh, way of, you know, experiencing your own self. But then I think you'll be the best person here to like, get us introduced to the world of yoga. So when you know what, what is aerial yoga actually, and what do you wish people stopped assuming about it?

00:03:34 Jo Stewart: Well, you are right. Like a lot of the aerial yoga that we see online looks like a beautiful, flowing performance. There are a lot of inversions. There are a lot of poses that look like you might see them in Cirque du Soleil, and there is a lot of circus influence in some of the aerial yoga poses. The prop itself, if you've been to the circus and seen the silks, the two fabric panels that hang down, um, in aerial yoga, we just have one piece of fabric and it's attached at both ends. So there's a loop in the middle and that means that it can support us. So one of my favorite poses is like a floating shavasana. Sometimes it's called cocoon in aerial yoga where you literally just lie in the hammock like you'd lie in a hammock. Or maybe people have had their childhood in India as well, like the total, like that silk hammock that supports babies as they sleep. And from this support, you can already move your spine in all directions side to side flexion extension twisting with full support. it's almost like the feeling of moving in water where you have this extra freedom because you don't feel compression into the spine as you move. So it can be very helpful for people who maybe have back pain or who just need that cocooned nervous system feeling of being held and supported. It can feel very nurturing. There are also standing poses, so for most of the poses I do, the fabric is hung, so it's lower point is at hip height. And that means you could wrap it around your arms and your back and hold it with both hands for full support, which makes lunging poses or even single leg balancing poses a lot more accessible. For people who might not have the confidence in their balance or maybe have knee issues. So it means that they can do a version of those poses and get the benefits in a way that works for them. For people who do want a bit more of a challenge with their balance, if that's what helps them feel present mentally and also to build that ability to keep your balance in your daily lives. You could maybe put one leg in the hammock for like a virabhadrasana, a warrior pose. And so the hammock just comes around the thigh. And so only one foot is on the ground. And that gives you a whole new experience in the pose, where it's a new challenge to stand and feel grounded when you have a small connection to the floor, but then also the movement of the hammock to work with. There's also a whole world of restorative poses where I hang the hammock anywhere between knee height and ankle height, and you would more use the way that the way you'd use a bolster or a block in restorative poses to support you from beneath. But unlike a block or a bolster, I can really adjust the height so it can be the right height for everybody, or even hips in the bolster. I mean hips in the hammock and then bolster underneath the torso, which is great if someone isn't comfortable with their hips being slightly elevated so we can get all of the nervous system benefits of a really gentle, supported inversion, but again, in a way that is more adaptable for the individual. And I do work with a lot of neurodivergent students, but also anyone who feels like being still in a pose is actually not relaxing for them. So sometimes they might have pain in the body, sometimes it might be triggering for them mentally. But in the hammock, you can move gently and softly because the hammock will flow with you. So you can have that supported experience, but also the freedom to move as you need to, and just flowing on with people who might need a different experience in their yoga practice. I know for a lot of people who come in and you actually describe this in your, your introduction, the feeling of feeling self-conscious, feeling unwelcome, feeling uncomfortable in a room full of other people who may or may not be looking at them in the hammock. Everyone has their own space. So you can be cocooned in the hammock. You have this experience of pratyahara because the fabric blocks out a lot of the visual distractions of the room, although you still can see like light shining through the fabric. You can still open it up a little bit if you needed to see like, say, if the teacher was demonstrating something. But a lot of people who find it not relaxing to be in a room full of other people are actually able to have a much more supported experience when they're in their like, inner space of the hammock, and that can really change the practice for them. One student of mine, this is a very like touching story for me, described like she has a PTSD history and the Shavasana at the end of the class where everyone is lying on the ground with their eyes closed, was very uncomfortable for her. She could never relax in that position. And so to be in the hammock. And she told me about this before the class. So I'd set her up in a sitting position rather than a lying down position, but still very supported. She was able to have that meditation, relaxation, just that ability to let go of the fear and the tension that had been in her body previously, and able just to have that space to be with herself from that support of the fabric around her. And I feel like those are the kind of experiences that make this practice so powerful. And they're the ones that we don't see online as much because it's a personal internal experience. And hopefully that's the kind of thing I can really share with my book so that more people can like realize the benefits of this practice for themselves as practitioners, but also yoga teachers. A lot of physiotherapists and occupational therapists are starting to use aerial yoga just because it gives us this way to work with different bodies and different brains, so that more and more people are able to access the benefits of yoga.

00:09:34 Sana: Well, I mean, you really actually, for me as well, I'll be very honest here, Joe, that you busted a misconception. And I'm very sure for many listeners out there specifically with aerial yoga, um, because, um, all, I mean, I could imagine, and I'm very sure with many of our listeners would imagine that, you know, it's all about advanced poses and flexibility and all that. But then especially about that, you know, um, that containment, that my own space that I'm feeling that comfortability in there, just being in my own space, I think that is something it lands, you know, because a lot of people think that support means easy, but then it can also mean, um, accessible enough to be honest. Like, you know, to actually feel your body, feel yourself instead of fighting or being always, you know, like this, conscious that you know me, like I'm doing shavasana in front of other people. I'm doing the warrior pose in front of other people, what they're going to think about my body like I'm feeling. And honestly, I have felt that kind of feeling in many of the yoga classes that was years before. But then I used to think that, you know, this is how it is. There is no other solution out there.

00:10:53 Jo Stewart: Absolutely. I think a lot of people feel that way. And I even have another group of people who really appreciate the ability to have your own space in class, and it's people who come from caring professions or parents. So I have a lot of nurses, psychologists, social workers, educators, people whose everyday job and life is taking care of everyone around them and making sure that they are okay. They also benefit from that ability to really find their own space so that they can refill their own cup in the practice, because often it's like it's not even a conscious thing. It's like if you are an empathetic, caring person, like that's a beautiful quality, but it can mean that you, a lot of your energy goes outwards and you can end up feeling drained and depleted. And it can be hard to find practices, especially if you're not on your own because there are like a lot of benefits to like co-regulation to practicing with other people in the room. And a lot of people like just find that group energy to be a powerful, um, healing power in itself. But yeah, sometimes it's hard to find that balance between time for yourself going inwards. If you are a very outwardly focused person or if like a lot of your daily life and work demands that.

00:12:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, Absolutely.

00:12:20 Sana: And, um, accessibility. I mean, this is a word that, uh, I mean, gets used a lot. You know, sometimes, uh, most of the times, like, you know, just as a marketing label, um, like just a simple, plain, bland checklist. But then what does accessibility mean in your teaching in real terms, especially for diverse bodies or chronic pain, um, and disability or, uh, limited mobility.

00:12:52 Jo Stewart: So I must, um, give a lot of credit and appreciation to one of my teachers, Giovanna Harmon, the founder of the accessible yoga movement, who has really done a lot to teach so many different teachers about accessibility. And a lot of people have the perception that it's just offering different options. So it's like, if you could do this pose with the block or with that, or you could do it kneeling, or you could do it on a chair. And that's important to offer. Asana that works for everyone. But there's so much more to yoga than asana. And if it's only about offering different pose options, we're not really making the true practice of yoga accessible. So it's also about creating space for people to experience all the other aspects of yoga and like, say, ahimsa, like that would be being kind to yourself in the practice. But then it's also the ability to do that when you step off your mat and move back out into the world. And Giovanna really does a great job of sharing about yoga philosophy with current world events in mind, because there's so much going on in the world right now, and it's a very delicate balance between like taking care of ourselves with that, but not putting our heads in the sand And like we live in this world, and I believe that we all have the ability to make positive change, but also to do that without burning ourselves out. We have to take care of ourselves. So it's like the two sides of the same coin. And I believe that that's true of a lot of other aspects of yoga philosophy. We have hopefully the ability to practice this, to integrate this and maybe to like, talk about it as well in the class or to maybe hear a philosophy or a poem or something that kind of unpacks some of the deeper layers of this within the practice. And then we bring that awareness with us as we step off our mat and move back out into the world. Like the yoga's not just what happens in the class. It's more and more how we live our lives. And I believe that that is truly accessible. Yoga where we create a space and an environment where we can start to share that.

00:15:19 Sana: Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, you're embodying it, not just practicing it.

00:15:24 Jo Stewart: Absolutely. And not just talking about it like putting it into action.

00:15:28 Sana: Exactly. Yeah. And, uh, you know, talking about, you know, this, I think, uh, this also is a very important question. Like, you know, uh, if a listener is thinking, okay, I want to try yoga again, but and this is something I definitely am awesome. I maybe also thinking because I'm thinking about, you know, trying yoga again, but then, you know, I'm like, scared that I'll be singled out. Um, what's one thing a teacher can do in the first five minutes of a class to make everyone make the room feel safer?

00:16:06 Jo Stewart: I think sometimes it's as simple as saying it just to say everyone is welcome here. This is your practice. If at any time you need to rest, it's fine to rest. If at any time you need a different option from me, like, please let me know because chances are that will help everyone. And sometimes I say a third thing, which is if you already know a different variation that is better for you than what I'm saying, you're welcome to do that. I say that in my chair yoga classes, but I don't always say it in my aerial yoga classes because some like there is a bit more of a safety factor. So if you fall out of a chair, you know the ground's right there. If someone sees someone else in an aerial yoga class, maybe doing an inversion or another pose that has some specific safety requirements and a progression to learning that pose, then, um, it's not appropriate just to play around and do something that you see someone else doing in the hammock. Or sometimes it's confusing in a class. If someone is doing something completely different to what the teacher is saying. So that one I don't like, I don't always offer the third option in my aerial yoga classes or um, sometimes I'll offer it in a certain part of the class. Whereas if I have a newer student and I want to work with them something one on one, I might say to the rest of the group, if there's a pose that you know well that you can safely and comfortably do on your own, you're welcome to do that. Otherwise, I'll be teaching this. So I'll kind of instruct it to everyone, but have my eyes on the newer person. And I have only six people in my studio. So it's a different situation to like a class, like with twenty people. Like that's a much different, um, container that you need to hold to keep everybody safe. But I think just to lead into it with that acknowledgement that we all have different bodies, We all have different brains. And actually, I always begin my practice, my classes with the centering practice where everyone just feels into, I feel like feel into the fabric, the hammock. It's feel into their own bodies, noticing how they're feeling today, noticing their breath, their state of mind, and just feeling into what you're working with today and what you might need from your practice. And I feel like for me, starting with that, it's already acknowledging that we're all different people with different lives and we're all going to need different things. But that is the beauty of yoga. It's so adaptable that even if you're doing the same pose from the outside, you might be having a completely different experience than someone else. And that's what's amazing about it.

00:18:56 Sana: I think it's such that, you know, intention, um, in the beginning itself. And I think that is something very, very important intention and that self-awareness. And I think that is something not just in the class but outside the class also in your life, in your day to day activities, whether it's in your work or your, your personal life also.

00:19:20 Jo Stewart: Absolutely. And it's one of those things that's like, we can practice it in class. And then hopefully that makes it easier to tap into that in our everyday life where things can be a bit more chaotic sometimes.

00:19:32 Sana: Yeah. Right. And, um, Jo, you are, um, very I mean, you are explicit about neurodiversity in your book and I appreciate that. Hugely appreciate that. But, but then I also want to ask it in a grounded way. How do neurodivergent needs show up in yoga spaces? And what's, what's different about teaching for sensory needs, attention differences or nervous system variability.

00:20:04 Jo Stewart: And I think the, the neurodiversity paradigm encompasses everyone. So whenever I do give an instruction that maybe has some different sensory options, it is for everyone. And it is one of the cool things about the aerial hammock because it does give some more possibilities. So, um, Jean Ayres is an occupational therapist who works with sensory processing. She kind of pioneered that approach. And working with the vestibular system is one of the ways that we can work with the body to get towards a particular state of mind. Our vestibular systems in our inner ear, and it regulates our physical, bitter physical balance and also emotional balance. So gentle swinging forward and back movement or just gentle forward and back movement tends to be soothing for most people's vestibular systems, like think like a rocking chair. And that's also a movement that we can do sitting in the hammock. Inversions. Spinning movements like variable movements, like unpredictable movements and balance challenges tend to be more stimulating for most people's vestibular systems. And if someone is vestibular seeking, some people need those types of movements to feel balanced. And then other people might need stillness or like that gentle forward and back movement. And I'm lucky with the hammock because there are poses where you could do all of those things in the same pose. So I can just give those options. Like there's one where you're literally just sitting in the hammock. It's underneath you, underneath your hips and your bottom, your feet are on the ground. So from that position, you could gently go forwards and back. You could turn yourself around so you could spin. You can't go upside down in that position. But there are many other opportunities for that. And like, that's just one example where tuning into what your own brain and body needs. And then we can all have space to explore that because it can be different, different days. I mentioned as well about the stillness, how for a lot of people, being still is not relaxing. And actually, I have a beautiful community member, Joelle, who has made some hammock safe stim toys. So it's beads on a string. And um, they don't, they don't make sounds and they don't have any sharp edges that might tear my fabric. So that's just an option if anyone needs that for their meditation or relaxation time, that's another resource they can use. Uh, I mentioned about the pratyahara, the ability to use the fabric to block out distractions from the room. And I've heard, especially from my autistic students, that that can be really helpful. Just the being surrounded by people can feel like a mental load for them. And then coming into the fabric, even though the other people are still in that room and they know they're there. It just takes away, um, that stimulation of being surrounded by other people and they can more and more come into their own space. And I think that everything I've learnt, um, from Giovanna and also from Shauni Thornton Hardy, who is another wonderful author who writes a lot about neurodiversity, it's all helped in all of my classes. So even if someone hasn't written on their form that they're neurodivergent, they haven't told me about it. Like we all have different brains and different bodies. So like, I feel like just having that space to feel into what your mind and your body need at that moment is a skill and a power that we can all access.

00:23:47 Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:23:47 Sana: And this is really, really, I mean, I would not just say amazing, but then I think it's very much essential because, um, it's, you know, I mean, the real flex isn't that, you know, I can hold this pose, but I believe the real flex here is that, you know, I noticed that I'm overwhelmed, but then I responded with care and there are, um, support systems around me which can help me respond with care.

00:24:22 Jo Stewart: I think you're totally right. Like that is the magic of it. And like, it's not something that necessarily comes in the first class or comes easily, like it is a practice in itself.

00:24:34 Speaker 4: Yeah. It is, it is.

00:24:37 Sana: And, uh, before we wrap up, uh, so your book, it is called eight Limbs of Yoga, which, uh, I mean, immediately nods to the classical yoga philosophy. Um, now a skeptic might say here that, uh, okay, early yoga is modern fitness with fabric. How does it connect to the lens in a real way? So tell me. I mean, what's, what's your core argument in the book? And what do you want teachers and students to actually do differently after reading it?

00:25:11 Jo Stewart: And I think that's a valid criticism because a lot of aerial yoga teacher trainings just focus on the hammock and don't talk about yoga philosophy at all. And it was actually a big reason why I wanted to write my book, because I felt like it was a missing piece. And I feel like the hammock makes it so much easier to access some of the states that Patanjali is talking about. Like I've mentioned Pratyahara a few times, using the hammock for sense withdrawal. And actually in my research for my book, and actually, since it's come out as well, I found out even more. It's not even a new thing like using rope especially And fabric is really interwoven with yoga history. Like there's a few texts at the Mysore Palace where, um, there are like illustrations of people using ropes for inverted asana. And I think it's more for tapas. So it would be more people doing it in a more intense way to transcend the body sensations and get to a state of mind in that way, which is not what I encourage in my classes. Like that's not safe for my students or, um, that's not an everyday householder practice. Like that is more of a transcendent practice. But yes, there are definitely illustrations of people like from the Middle Ages and in a few different books using the ropes for inversions. So that is part of yoga history. And. Using props in all ways is almost as old as the practice of yoga itself. Like we see engraved seals from the Indus Valley. Wear like a rope is around the legs to help people meditate. And I don't think that's that different from the way that I'm using the hammock to help set people up into a position where they can be physically at ease. And then those deeper benefits of the meditation, um, become more accessible. Like I think taking a shortcut sounds like the wrong phrase, but using all the resources that we have at our disposal to get to this state of yoga, it's already challenging, especially in this modern world. So if there are ways that we could make it easier for ourselves, then, um, I believe that that can be really helpful on this path. And I've just, um, for the framework of the book, that's kind of how I've laid out my chapters like the same order as Patanjali has shared in the Yoga Sutras and the idea where we start with where we're at the US in a chapter is obviously like quite a long chapter because we've got the different poses in there, but that idea that we're more and more working from our physical experience of being in this body to those higher levels of self and experience, and hopefully people can have glimpses of that within their practice. So one thing I've learned through yoga practice and life that if we're, if we're grasping for something, if we're pushing for something, often we're pushing it further away. So what we can do is to create space for those experiences. And that's kind of my goal with what I share to help people create space for themselves.

00:28:32 Sana: I absolutely agree with you. I mean, it's not that, you know, um. We're deliberately, uh, we have to make everything harder to get the essence out of it or make it look more effective. Like it's, you know, it's more about agency than aesthetics or it's more about, you know, offering options, building safety, honoring your needs. I mean, it's not like, you know, you have to fit into the yoga, but the yoga can be designed according to you because we all are different.

00:29:13 Jo Stewart: Absolutely. I so agree, and I feel like that really is true to the history of yoga as well. Like these big group classes where one teacher is leading all these different people in a set sequence of poses is actually pretty new in yoga history. Like initially it would be a teacher working one on one with one person or with a small group and teaching you the poses like as you've integrated the knowledge from the previous ones. So everyone probably would have got a slightly different practice depending on their needs and where they were at.

00:29:48 Speaker 4: Yeah. Right.

00:29:50 Sana: So, um, Joe, before we wrap up, uh, I'm very sure our listeners will be so curious now to, of course, get a hold of your book and connect with you. So what would be the best medium?

00:30:03 Jo Stewart: Oh, thank you so much, Sana. So they can find me on Instagram. I'm garden of yoga there. My website is garden of yoga dot com. Oh and my book is eight Limbs of Aerial Yoga Adapting Practice for accessibility, neurodiversity, and Physical support. And it's available for pre-order now on all of the major online retailers. Or you could also go to your local independent bookstore and ask them to get it in for you.

00:30:32 Sana: Amazing. Amazing. So listeners, I'll have all the links, all the details mentioned in the show notes. Find them attached along with this episode. And, um, Joe, before we wrap up. Um, you know, it kind of clicked in my mind that you mentioned that, you know, um, especially for the, for the people or the students who are new, um, it's very important to go through the technical part in there in terms of safety. Uh, so, you know, like some people would see aerial yoga as risky or even inaccessible because of the equipment and the setup, it can be expensive. So what are the real limitations of aerial yoga and who should be cautious to avoid it?

00:31:15 Jo Stewart: So yes, you're right about the setup. And, um, that is also in my book. I definitely recommend getting a qualified rigger or if it's like you're installing it in your home to a beam, then you need a structural engineer. The people who I find have the most adverse effects in the hammock are people who are really sensitive to motion sickness. So if you get really seasick, that flowing movement of the hammock can have a similar effect, and we can work around it. Like if you love all of the other aspects, like you can definitely just keep yourself more still in those poses. And there's lots of standing poses where that isn't an issue, but those are the people I find who normally don't come back after their first class if they just feel really sick, which I understand, like it's not for everyone. Um, there are specific contraindications for inversions for going upside down. So glaucoma, blood pressure, any head injuries, any of those kinds of things. And in my book, I do have a section on pregnancy and this is a little bit different for everyone. So I would say if you are pregnant and you haven't tried aerial yoga before, wait until you've had your baby and you have your doctor's okay to return to exercise, same as running or weightlifting or any new physical activity, just wait until, um, you know, you're ready to come back to exercise with all of those other things like the running, the weightlifting, um, aerial yoga. If it's already an established practice in your body, then it's totally fine to keep going, but we'll just adapt depending on how you're feeling and what trimester you're in and any other physical issues that might be coming up. And I think that those are really the main things. Um, I do work with older people as well. So bone density can be an issue there. And the hammer can be really helpful with that because there are a lot of poses where you like, really work on your grip strength and your upper body strength in a supported way. But I more avoid the poses where, say, you need to put one foot into the fabric. I find that those are the ones where people are most likely to lose their balance. So if everyone else or if that's an option in the class, um, I will also give the option of the hammock being wrapped around the back and holding it with your hands. And I find in situations like that when. I might have given a more stable option with a particular person in mind, knowing that, you know, there might be a contraindication for them. There'll usually be other people in the class who will also take that option, even if maybe they take the other one on other days, because the stable options are great if you're feeling low energy or, you know, if you've had a bad night's sleep. And so your balance feels different for that reason. So I definitely try and just share options for everyone with the only limiting factor being, as you were saying, with some of the more complex poses where safety is an issue, sometimes there'll be foundation poses, and I'll just make it part of the class that you need to confidently come in and out and stay safe in the foundation pose before you take it up to the next level. And often in aerial yoga, it's practicing the pose low to the ground first, making the muscle memory, how you use your legs, how you use your arms, how you use your balance low to the ground. And then once you've got all of that, that's when we might practice it with the hammock up at hip height. And that's when it might go from being a more restorative height inversion, where just the hips are a little bit elevated to more of a full inversion, where your spine can lengthen down and your head floats above the ground.

00:35:05 Speaker 4: Yeah, I really.

00:35:06 Sana: Really appreciate that, you know, naming limits because I think, um, it's a part of trust too. Like, you know, this helps many people, but then it's not for everyone in every season. So.

00:35:19 Jo Stewart: Exactly. Yeah. And it's like, maybe not your first class. Yeah. But you can like build some foundations and work up to it if it's something that you want to do and that has the additional benefit as well of if you're putting your body in this totally new situation, like. Upside down, there's lots of other changes. There's blood pressure changes. You might feel like seasick, like I mentioned before, like a vestibular effect. So if there are any of those adverse effects, starting low and going slow gives all the systems in your body a chance to condition to that different experience, and it makes for a more comfortable experience when you do decide to do that full pose. Because just as we've been training our muscles, we've been training these other systems in our bodies to regulate in that different state as well.

00:36:12 Speaker 4: Okay. That's okay. Amazing, amazing.

00:36:15 Sana: Um, thank you so much, Jo, because, um, I think, you know, the, what, what I realized, what I'm realizing right now is that, you know, um, healing it, it is, it is, it is, isn't always dramatic. Like, you know, it's, it's simply finding a way to belong in your own body. Again, like, you know, it doesn't have to be always, um, full of aesthetics and, uh, just to prove that, you know, I can do this heroically and without even learning and something which is more performative, it doesn't have to be. And, um, thank you so much for the care and clarity that you bring to this work, Joe. And then putting it into a book that helps teachers and students stop guessing and start practicing with real inclusion. Of course. So thank you.

00:37:07 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Sana.

00:37:08 Jo Stewart: That's so kind of you to say, and I've really enjoyed talking with you today. So I really appreciate, um, your thoughtful questions and like what you put out in the world with your podcast. It's awesome.

00:37:21 Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you so.

00:37:22 Sana: Much, Jo. And, uh, listeners, if you have been thinking that, okay, yoga isn't for me. Or maybe that, uh, no, it's not the good time. I hope that, you know, today offer another possibility. Maybe it's not that yoga isn't for you. Maybe the version you met just wasn't built with you in mind. So to all the listeners, if the mindful living helps you feel, helps you feel a little less alone in your inner world. I'd love for you to follow the show. Not because we're chasing numbers. Because when you follow, you are building a small ritual of support into your week. You're choosing conversations that don't rush. You don't shame you, don't ask you to be different person to deserve care. And if you want to share this episode with one friend who's trying to come back home to their body gently, I'm sir, and I'll meet you in the next one. Thank you.