the last thing I see my dad, as I turned around, was he, him, you

know, hovering away from from the ship.

started in this new world with absolutely nothing, a pair of shirt and boxer shorts.

people were jumping and your mom had to like basically just drop, drop your

sister to a sailor that's catching people.

one of the things I do remember is tasting military peanut butter in

the can that you, you know, rolled up.

Sure, yeah.

And chicklettes chicklettes, military chit,

they were res the first thing he said when he got on the ship, it wasn't

like, where's my wife and kids?

He's like, give me a cigarette.

Oh my gosh.

This is something people need to know.

It's real.

It happened.

It happened to your family specifically, really is great

for you to tell this story.

And like you said, it's the 50th anniversary

You know, it's one of those that truth is braver than fiction,

Thank you so much for joining us.

We are talking to author Mickey Nguyen.

He's actually the son of Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Van Ba, his father

was a Vietnamese, a South Vietnamese pilot who escaped Vietnam with his

family when Saigon, when, when the country was falling to the communists

that were coming down from the north.

His father's heroic actions, including a daring helicopter escape in April of 1975,

was featured in the 2015 Oscar nominated film, Last Days in Vietnam, and are

chronicled in the new memoir, which we're going to talk about, The Last Flight Out.

With the 50th anniversary of the fall of Saigon approaching here in 2025, Mickey

aims to connect with audiences interested in this we really enjoyed this interview

with Mickey he had some incredible stories to tell and I really hope you guys stick

around for it this story and the story of what mickey's father did in getting

his family out of the country Yeah.

So let's talk with history.

We are here with Mickey Nguyen.

Am I pronouncing that correctly?

Yes.

That's right.

And you are here talking about a book that's really about your father and you've

been carrying on this, this message and just as we were talking before we started

recording here, you, you've been doing these interviews and I, you know, there's.

been Oscar nominated films with your father who was part of that storyline and

all this really, really interesting stuff.

So, so Mickey, for our listeners and for those watching, can you tell

us a little bit about your book?

Kind of your, your journey with your father.

There's a whole lot of stuff for us to cover here.

So I'll let you jump into things that you think will resonate with folks who

might be interested in your, in your book.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you, Scott and Jen for the the opportunity to be on here

to share my my family story.

And again, I, I come at it.

This is my family's story.

Every family's got their own unique stories and everyone's got their own

unique history but this one involved my father who passed away about 10 years

ago but what he did 50 years ago, coming up here, April 29th, April 30th, 1975

was very heroic, so much so that he shared, you know, as with any military

folks post activity, post you know, we'd share his story of how he got to

America here with his other, you know, Vietnamese veteran buddies here in the U.

S. as well as around dinner tables when I was younger and hearing his

story and experienced it myself as a six and a half year old boy in 1975.

And so, gosh, long story short, the U. S. Navy in 2009 mind you the incident

that happened 50 years ago we never got the name of the, the ship, which

is the USS Kirk, nor the name of the, the captain Captain Paul Jacobs.

After we, you know, got onto the ship because they had to continue to stay

around the Gulf of Tonkin to, you know, continue their, their activity mission

and and then our family had to, you know, get whisked off to another boat

and ship and start a new life in America.

And so, flash forward to 2009, finally, the the U.

S. Navy Mr. Jan Herman did a he is a U. S. Navy historian.

And did some research on the activities in 1975 and the you know, Operation

Frequent Wind, which was the evacuation of U. S. personnel and, and others within

supporting the U. S. military efforts in, in South Vietnam, Saigon area.

Yeah.

Had to quickly flee as the the communists came down and, and took took over Saigon.

And and so, so when, when the, when Mr. Jan Herman did the did the

research, found out, you know, this pilot who ditched his helicopter

after his family jumped onto the ship.

Finally the story was shared you know, with the community, the

Vietnamese community, and it ended up that my mom got an email saying,

Hey, we're looking for this pilot.

And my mom sent me the, the email and she said, Hey, take a look at it.

And then it just I was at work and the, the full, the full life story of our

family circled around where, wow, the the U S Navy, you know, reached out

and tried to find this, this pilot.

And I said, Hey, if you're looking for the pilot that ditched the Chinook at,

you know, this approximate time afternoon That's that's more than likely my dad.

Oh, wow.

So, back then 10 years ago of 15 years ago.

He Dementia Alzheimer's so he wasn't able to you know, communicate and so

I spoke on on his behalf but myself my mom family just extremely happy to

reconnect back with the the captain and everyone and so I'll, I'll get

more into the, the, the dramatic story, but so much so that the, the U.

S. Navy put together, Jan Herman, the team there put together

a documentary themselves.

Oh, cool.

And and then eventually a couple years later, we, in 2010,

a year later my family, dad, mom, sister flew out to Washington DC to

do a reunion with the the USS Kirk.

And the documentary, we got a chance to see the US Navy documentary.

It was called the Lucky Few.

Hmm.

Okay.

And there first time interviewing with, NPR.

Oh, yeah.

And, was able to not only share the story through, through NPR, but also got the

chance to shake the hand of the captain, thanked him, thanked the crew members.

They took a big risk themselves standing underneath the Chinook

helicopter to catch us as we jumped.

And so, the story continued to snowball a year later or two, got a phone call from

a production team, that was American, part of the NPR network, and said that a a film

company, L. A. Wants to do, want to work with, produce a, you know, Their version

of it and it just so happened that the the director the producer was Rory Kennedy

and her company Moxie film and so Rory Kennedy youngest daughter of Robert F.

Kennedy.

Her brother is JFK Yeah, jr. If I got and so

Yeah, so in 2013 got the chance to talk about it and you know in the the

last days last days of Vietnam, yeah, and Out the, you know, we didn't know,

but it, it got shortlisted, got out of 130, I was told about 130 documentaries

submitted for 2014, 2015 to Oscars.

Yeah, it got shortlisted down to five.

So, just amazing from that standpoint.

Yeah.

That, that's

absolutely amazing.

And, and just to kind.

And I just wanted to step back for, you know, I looked a little bit at some

of the links that you had sent us and there's been some new stories and, and,

and for, for our listeners and what I'll do is I'll, I'll cut in some of the

some of the new stories and reels, you know, in the, in the earlier part of the

interview, so they get that foundation, but really you said you were six and

a half when you guys were basically evacuating out of the Saigon area.

So

should I should I get into the story?

Make you when you're like, that's probably my father how many

helicopters ditched Leaving Saigon.

Was there more than one?

Well, like you you know It's you see in time left magazine in

video many of the smaller Huey.

Sure.

Yeah,

absolutely They landed

on the deck is a small enough to land on this particular deck.

Yeah, he was this Kirk Yeah, and then they pushed it over there, you know,

okay side So then they would push him to

get more on because they're not going to like put them in a hanger.

They're just going to push them off.

And then the next one would land.

Yeah.

Okay.

But your father is the only one that actually ditched his aircraft.

Like he was the pilot.

He flew it into the water.

And ditched it.

Like he, he didn't.

Simply because

it was just too big to land.

There's

no room.

Oh yeah, Chinooks are big.

I've flown in Chinooks before.

Those are large aircraft.

Way too big for a frigate.

But there was no other pilot that did that.

So when you're like, it's probably my dad, it's probably because he's

the only one who ditched an aircraft.

Well,

as far as, as far as I know now, if there's others that have

done that out there, it wasn't, it wasn't at least shared in the

community or talked about very much.

So I, I don't, I don't know, but I do know about my dad.

Okay,

cool.

Okay.

Yeah.

I just wanted to make sure.

Cause you're like, that's probably my dad.

I'm like, wow.

I was wondering how many.

I know that they pushed the aircraft off.

I know they were just getting the aircraft out and and getting

people out as quickly as possible.

But when I read about your father actively ditching, something that we

practice now in the Navy, but probably something he never practiced, and he just

did it off of what he knew as a pilot.

It's so interesting because from what the Navy probably saw him do, they're

probably like, okay, now we're going to train people to do that because it worked.

Well, yeah, fortunately it did rise either, either

death or survival in this case.

But from, from what I've, I've heard and in talking with other, other Navy folks,

you know, I, I think they, they train.

them to just hover over and then kill the prop and then let

it, you know, sink and roll.

But like, just like your father did, you get everybody out

of the aircraft but the pilot.

Just like your father did.

Same scenario, right?

You, you, that's the highest chance for survival is to get everyone out.

And let the pilot do an active ditch.

And because then you can control it.

So I think that's really cool.

Your dad was like a, a trend center.

He was a groundbreaker there.

Yeah, just survival.

Do what you had to do.

Think quick.

Quick, quick on your feet, you know?

Yeah.

So had to, yeah.

So let's tell

the story.

Let's tell the story of from you're six and a half, what's

happening in Vietnam at the time.

Your father is a South Vietnamese.

officer.

He's a pilot.

Vietnam is falling.

What's going on with South Vietnamese people and tell us the

story of your family survival.

So yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll try to condense it as much as possible, but

there, but there are fun parts in there that it's like you know, yeah, there's

just some, some interesting parts in there, but for, for those that, you know,

May not know the full history of Vietnam.

It was a country highly desired in terms of where its location close to the

water, been occupied by China, French occupation for hundreds of years, you

know, through its history and most recent, you know, up leading up to 1975

was the the desire to be independent, you know, the way that independent

from the French and other things.

But in this particular case the communists wanted to, you know,

gain control of the country.

And my dad being from the South with support from the U S. was involved

trained with America, with Americans in the early 60s, he had a chance a

couple of times to come over to Alabama and to Texas for flight training.

And so, , you know what, he decided to focus more around helicopters

and get training around that.

And so, fast forward to The last few months leading up to April 29, 1975,

the communists were coming down and encircling the the city of Saigon.

And at this moment in time, I was, again, you know, six, six and a half So I'm

sharing the story from my perspective, but as we talk about the, you know, the book

itself, he wrote many of these stories himself and, but the, the way that I'll

narrate it is from my perspective, but knowing, knowing that the the communists

was about to come down, he knew that it was, it was time to start making,

you know, option A or option B and Perhaps option C, if if things didn't,

didn't, you know, didn't turn out well.

But as we all know they did, the communists did come down and the last few

nights my family, my mom and I, younger brother, younger sister had to, you

know, go to our grandma's house, which is basically in the middle of of Saigon.

Okay.

And he told us to go there and he told us that, you know, in the event of,

of things just falling apart I'm going to come and get you somehow, someway.

We'll figure out this out, we'll go, we'll figure out option B. Because

if, if he would have gotten caught or captured, it would have been many years

of re education camp, which is hell.

Sure.

You know, his buddies and, and family members who didn't get the chance to

leave had to, you know, deal with that concentration, that, that camp activity.

But, in this, in this particular case, knowing what he knew hearing

intelligence in the radio and in his superiors and his commanding officers

and everybody else simply knowing that it's, you know, there is no other option.

They took off, they took off with their family.

He waited for orders until the very last moment where at this time, there was

no further orders for him to, you know, to execute this or execute that because

again, his superiors took off themselves.

Yeah, everybody was.

Trying to save their families.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And so, at this point he you know, he had what he called his, his horse, right?

His Chinook.

It's the only thing that he can ride in and out of.

They bombed the the main airport, Tangshanyuek airport.

Okay.

And so you couldn't take a big, you know, plane in or out.

So he flew the Chinook helicopter into the the city towards my grandma's

house and mind you this was like, you know any metropolitan major

city and Just let you know Jen, you know Chinooks right the c 47.

It's loud thunderous.

You can hear that from miles away Oh, yeah, and it causes a commotion But

it then that net here is he landed that thing in front of a my grandma's

playfield little school yard or a playfield in the front and obviously,

you know, caused a lot of commotion in the neighborhood and many of the

homes back then had tin roofs and blew many of those things up in a way, but

told his co pilot his lower the the back hatch and we all ran in and

to the back of the Chinook and You know, took that thing up quickly.

There are folks that are military police around there.

You know, rushing towards him And so we had to get the heck out of there.

Sure So let me ask you this So did your you went to your grandma's house?

I would assume because of the protection as it's more central to the city.

It's going to It's going to take longer for the North Vietnamese to

get into the center of the city.

So he's like, get there for protection.

Plus he has the LZ there, so he has a landing zone picked

out because of the playground.

Now, were you the only family to get on board?

I mean, did other families see this and want to try to save themselves too?

Yeah, my dad's side has a lot of oldest, you know, son in the family.

He had a lot of brothers, my aunts and uncles.

But they, you know, as we were running into the Chinook, my mom

would look back, Hey, come on with us.

But they they said, yeah, go with, go with your husband.

Okay.

From that same point.

And the reason why we were at my grandma's house was because we were

living in Binwa, which was about half hour away, a military base.

And obviously the military base was probably too hot of a zone to be there.

So that's why he moved moved our family to grandma.

So it's just immediate family.

No uncles or aunts came.

Your grandmother didn't come.

No cousins.

It was just you guys.

Okay.

Yeah.

No, many, many of them back then, you know, who was to say where, where

my dad would go and how we would end up.

And so nobody knew what was happening.

So perhaps some regret hearing there from the family members, not, not

going, but eventually some of them, you know, had the chance to, to, to leave.

Yeah.

So basically got out of, got out of Saigon, got out of that, that area

and headed further south just to get away from the the city and to consolidate

with his other you know, other pilots trying to figure out the next and the

thought was to get ration, get food, gas just gear up and try to find a a

remote island further south, just lay low and then figure out from there.

And that's what that's what we did.

That's what that's what my dad did was just met up with, you know, radioed the

other, the other folks, other folks, other pilots and met at a location and

if figure out what, what the next thing to do was, but he heard on the radio,

a lot of us communication chatter.

He also knew many of the us ships that were still out.

In the Pacific there and the thought was maybe go out there and check it

out and if there's a ship that was big enough, maybe they land on it and,

and get, get, get out of town, right?

So that's what, that's what he did.

He flew out towards the, the ocean.

There was no, there was not an exact point.

He just flew out there to see what, check it out.

And mind you, Jen, you probably know they don't, you know, they don't have flotation

devices or any life jackets, you know, at least with this Chinook that my dad had.

And so it was it was a risky effort to go out there not knowing exactly, you

know, what's going to be out there and if, if maybe he had enough gas to make

it out or to, to figure all that out.

But, eventually Flew out there and on the distant.

He saw, you know a ship and Headed in that direction.

Oh and as he got close to it eventually, you know throttled back a little bit

He didn't want to look too aggressive.

Sure, obviously kids, you know, the the American Navy men below they were

everybody's heightened heightened tension right not knowing that

this was a communist plane coming out and doing wrong to the ship.

So, as he approached it, you know, my mom, him and others, there's like about.

15, 16 people somewhere on the in the Chinook, our family.

And he had a co pilot and his gunner and maintenance guy and their, their

girlfriends and things like that.

So, hovered up there and we can see the, the ship below continuing

to, you know, maintain its course.

All right, just three or five knots, and he kept hovering it and circling around

it, while at the same time that you can see the folks below holding, you know,

holding big guns up at him, just did like, hey, you know, we got our eye on you.

And so, like a warning.

Yeah, just exactly.

And so, my dad with his broken English, you know, that he can speak was able to

communicate with the captain in the ship.

And finally the Captain Paul Jacobs you know, talked with his crew and

started to figure out, you know, how, how to, how are we going to do this?

Is it how are we gonna, you know, help Help this guy in, in

the, the folks in the Chinook.

And so in the video, there's a video in the in the film where you can see

my mom holding up Mina, my, my yeah.

Baby sister, six month old, up to the window and say, Hey, there's, there's

women and, you know, kids on board here.

Yeah.

We need help.

And so with the the compassion and the the

the, the heart of the, the, you know, Mr. Paul Jacobs, quickly just

scrambling to figure things out.

And so, finally, you know, okay, guys, we got we got to help this the pilot

up there in the Chinook up there.

And so basically the what my dad did was, and again, the the ship had

to maintain a steady course, right?

Instead of maintain a steady course.

And so he He hovered the the Chinook towards the the stern, the, the rear side.

And obviously this particular USS Kirk found out.

Later on was a a submarine, a destroyer type where it was looking for sonar

and just a lot of expensive equipment, very high tech back then, antennas,

radars, all of the surveillance.

And so he didn't want to.

My dad didn't want to get too close to the all the, the mass and the

equipment because he can put that ship out of commission quickly.

Anything could have happened, you know, wind or a swell could have knocked you

know, the Chinook into the to the boat.

And so he hovered, he hovered behind, falling behind, he hovered the Chinook

behind the ship and, on the starboard.

Door open the door and hovered it lowered it down and we can we can see Hovered it

about 10 13 feet above the the deck and we can see the American Navy men below hands

up and Jump right one by one we jump.

Holy cow.

Yeah and the last few that left the the Chinook, my mom had

to drop a seven month old baby, you know, onto the hand below.

That gentleman who caught my sister, his name is Mr. Mr. Chipman, met

him in Washington, D. C. Oh, wow.

Yeah, Texan.

That's amazing.

And just amazing reunion.

But Mr. Chipman and, and others down there, you know, brave, brave Navy men

risked their life as well just to, to help us out and so we all got down,

we, I jumped down and the only injury was one of the, one of the girlfriends

of one of the crew member sprained her ankle, but fortunately everyone was okay.

They quickly ushered us, pushed us in inside, didn't want any kids or

anybody running out on the deck, right?

Sure.

And so the last thing I see my dad, as I turned around, was he, him, you

know, hovering away from from the ship.

And so, went inside and that was it for my own eyes.

That was the last time I saw my dad.

Everything else was just hearing stories of him telling it and eventually seeing

all of the photos and everything else from the U S Navy many years later.

But as I share this with you through, through what my dad shared

with me through dinner tables, you know, as we grew up, he.

Hovered away from the ship, 100 yards or so, and hovered the you know, hovered the

Chinook on the water so he can take off all of his gear and his gun, his sidearm

and, you know, the flat jacket, right?

I mean, it's hard to put that on, let alone take that off while he's hovering.

Get all the

weight off, yeah.

Shoes, boots, you know, unstrapping all that.

He's only a regret.

But his only regret in this whole experience was and, and the only reason

why I found out was because of the book, you know, the, the section that he wrote.

But the regret was that he should have asked his co pilot to at least

hold the rudder so he can take all of his stuff out once he's down, then

tell the co pilot to jump, right?

So he, yeah, he laughingly said, you know, next time if I have to do this

again, I'm going to tell the co pilot to just give me like five minutes.

And also the other regret was not keeping his military ID.

Yeah.

All of the ID stuff.

Everything was gone.

I'm telling you.

Sure.

Started, started in this new world with absolutely nothing, a

pair of shirt and boxer shorts.

That's amazing.

So down to his, down to his undergarment and hovered there kicked

the the port door and the left side out.

Yep.

And basically with his With his right leg, pushed the rudder so that it would, you

know, lean towards the the right as he jumped over to his left into the water.

And he said, you know, the stories around the dinner table tried to dive into the

ocean, but Tried it two or three times, but the saltwater is very buoyant.

You kept pushing them back up.

That was his biggest fear was a shrapnel or a blade or something.

Just, you know, in the water, right?

Or the dynamics of the Chinook could have been a, it could have flipped back on him.

Sure.

Because you can't really jump too far, you know, just from this huge, huge aircraft.

But fortunately, you know, it leaned over to the right.

He was on the left.

And quickly on the third, third attempt diving, he dove down.

And finally.

You know, as I said in the film, he pops back up and he's alive

and it's like just huge relief.

They came there, they sent the little skiff to come out and grab him.

And we can see the video of him sitting in the boat, just like probably thinking,

God, thank God almighty, I made it.

You know, and the first thing, the first thing he said when he got on the ship,

it wasn't like, where's my wife and kids?

He's like, give me a cigarette.

Oh my gosh.

It's called that nerve down.

Absolutely.

So funny.

That's

so 70.

I can't imagine.

Yeah.

Exactly.

It's such a pilot thing.

It's awesome.

Oh my gosh.

So a couple things, like I want to remind people, this is a frigate.

It's 15 feet off the water.

If he's hovering about 10 feet off the frigate, he's 25 feet off the ground.

The frigate has to maintain a course, even a low course, just to keep it steady.

Yep.

Because those South China Seas are so big.

that if you were to stop, like, you're like, why doesn't he

just stop and they can hover?

It's going to rock so much that it's going to be, he's going to be unable

to hover, especially at the side.

He has to hover to the side.

He's not hovering straight on.

He's hovering to the side to open the door, to let people jump out.

And because he's doing that, he's probably looking over his

shoulder to maintain the hover.

And you have to maintain some kind of speed on the ship to

keep it as steady as possible.

So.

And he's doing 15 people.

So this is taking some time.

This is not just like two seconds.

This is taking some time to do.

And

what people don't realize too, right?

You know, if, if you've ever spent time on a ship, and right, have both

of us haven't been in the Navy you know, those, those, the sea state

has, has a lot to do with that.

You know, there's multiple things that, a factor here, right?

Chinook, if you're, if our listeners don't quite know what a Chinook

is, or can't picture it in their head, picture that classic M.

A. S. H. helicopter, right?

Dual, dual rotors, a little bit longer.

And so that, that's, that's what he's flying, that CH 46.

And then on the ocean, you'll have swells sometimes, depending on the, like I said,

depending on the sea state, that are, that are changing how high the ship is,

by like 5 to 6 feet, and sometimes it's even 10 to 15 feet, just on the swell.

So the ship, so you can fly the helicopter steady.

But you also have to keep an eye on the ship because the

ship is the thing that's moving.

It's actually the, the helicopter is actually a little

bit easier to keep steady.

Whereas the ship, again, depending on the sea state.

So that's an incredibly dangerous thing to do.

And it's, it's, it's a miracle, you know, praise God that, that everybody came out.

Okay.

And then.

You know, people were jumping and your mom had to like basically just drop, drop your

sister to a sailor that's catching people.

Like if our listeners can picture that in their head and then your father

flying off to the side, rolling it one way and jumping off the other, all

of this stuff is happening, I'm sure in a relatively short period of time.

Your dad is a excellent

pilot.

And then, I want people to remember that the deck of a ship is steel.

So people are jumping down onto a steel deck.

And you guys are probably rushed into the hangar, right behind there,

because to get people off the deck, clear the deck as quick as possible to

get more people on, as there's people on the deck catching these people.

And I love that your mom held up your sister, because it's like an

international symbol of peace, a child.

Yeah,

help.

Yeah.

So I think, I love, I love all that.

So, so we're leading into that.

Your father has Ditch the aircraft, which I think is amazing.

Like you said, you're not gonna jump away from the aircraft.

You're basically jumping beside the aircraft.

You don't have, like, this long lateral distance.

Like, and you have to get over the cyclic.

Like, he has to get his leg over the cyclic, and then jump over

the collective into the water.

So he's taking off all his weight, so he can dive, like you said.

And and hopefully the aircraft will row.

All the weight of a helicopter's in the top.

So hopefully the helicopter will roll because the weight will pull it

over and like you said, he'll dive to hit all of the, everything flying

off of it because it's an active rotor at the time as it's going in.

And I just think it's great that he, he gets rescued with nothing but his, like,

skivvies on and then asks for a cigarette.

He's like, I did it.

It's such a pilot thing.

Like, look, I did the most badass thing.

You know what?

None of you pilots did this and I got a cigarette.

Oh my war.

So are

you gonna see him again on the ship?

Like are you guys reunited as a family on the ship and then

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then transported to a bigger, a bigger ship.

'cause I'm, I'm sure the refugees coming in Yeah.

Are so high that they need to get you on a bigger ship that can handle more people.

That's right.

Because if frigate is not.

It's like a hundred and fifty people on board.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We were only on there for less than 24 hours before we were, another

ship came by to offload, right?

And that, and the USS Kurt stayed stayed in the, in the area.

Yeah, and a frigate too.

I mean, I was on a frigate for my first deployment.

They can get closer to shore.

The draft is smaller.

So the draft of a ship is how much it sticks underneath the water.

A frigate, because it's smaller, because it's the lower crew,

you can get closer to the water.

So they like to get the frigates You know, close and to offer some support.

So I think that's another reason why the curt was probably closer

for your dad when he was coming out.

But I think that's great.

And I, if I remember correctly, the commanding officer was

like a six for three big guy.

Oh, just a big, big heart, big guy.

I just I got goose pimples thinking about him.

He passed away a few years ago in his 90s.

Wow.

But what a wonderful gentleman, wonderful crew, big, big heart,

towards the last few years in 2016.

2015, 16, 17 we were trying, you know, with his help and others

that we were trying to get the U.

S. Navy to formally recognize his humanitarian and compassionate, you

know, effort towards not only our family, but hundreds and hundreds of of other

families that basically did the same thing was, you know, fly various planes

and helicopters out to to help and, Mr. Paul Jacobs, Captain Paul Jacobs,

I'll, I'll keep repeating that until the day I die, was one of those gentlemen

that just, you know, put aside any sort of protocols or any of this and

that, and just from one human to the next human, I'm going to help you out.

Yeah.

And for that, myself, my, my family, and my dad fully appreciate that.

100%.

Yeah.

That's what we love about the U. S. Navy, too, you know, so that's great.

And where, where was Jacobs from?

Do you know?

Virginia.

Virginia.

Okay.

I think so.

Yeah.

Around the D. C. area.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

So.

You're on the ship and how long until you get to America and I think

you go to Washington State, right?

Yeah.

So, there's so many, so many parts of the story that I, I have to

filter myself because we can sit here and talk for hours and hours, but

yeah, again, on there for 24 hours.

And then, and then another another ship came by to, to offload

us with hundreds of others.

And from one ship to, from there, we went to Wake, Guam.

Mm

hmm.

Yeah, and then eventually Hawaii.

Yep, and then went into a Camp Pendleton, Marine Yeah, Camp Pendleton in San Diego.

Yeah, and was there for a month or so and then a Cross of Christ Lutheran Church

again, so many amazing people along the journey to help, you know to help us

Cross of Christ Lutheran Church here in Bellevue, which is about 45 30 minutes

away from Seattle Sponsored our family And it helped us resettle from there.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Now, for, for you, I mean, being six and a half, you know, all this stuff

going on, do you have a lot of kind of, like, specific memories yourself?

Like, I know for me, if I try to think back to, to my youth, usually

it's like I'll remember one specific thing about something that happened.

Like, oh my gosh, look at this ship.

Someone gave me, you know, ice cream or something like that.

Like, I mean, do you have any memories like that of like being on the ship

yourself and interacting with the sailors as you're leaving and can come into

Guam and then Hawaii and everything?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great question because, you know, we all, we

all reflect back on our childhood and their moments and memories where it's

like, it stands out for me, six and a half growing up on a military base and playing

with, you know, guns and I mean, they're guns and all bullets and heavy military

just laying around the, the barrack and the, you know, playing around all that.

But to answer your question on the ship itself, one of the things I do remember

is tasting military peanut butter in the can that you, you know, rolled up.

Sure, yeah.

And chicklettes chicklettes military chit, they were res Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That, I mean, specific to your, to your question.

Yeah.

Those were the things that I remember because, you know.

Exactly, exactly on the ship.

And we see, we see photos.

My dad's sitting there on the ship just kinda like chilling,

talking with, you know, his buddies and I'm, I'm, you know, brother

running around the, the ship there.

So, but yeah, I can I, that taste of that peanut butter, I can taste it right now.

That's the military peanut butter ration.

Yeah, I, I love stories like that because for me, you know, that's

always what I. There's there's very specific things and it's not something

you would ever think of, right?

It's a smell that triggers an old memory or something as something you taste

that's like that just takes you right back You know to 30 40 50 years prior.

Yeah, and so I was thinking about that as you were telling this

story I was like, I'm sure there's like one thing that he just really

remembers, you know And if and it makes sense to me that for a kid, right?

It's something that you're gonna taste, you know for the first

time so So I absolutely love that.

Now for the book, did your father write the better portions of this book and

then it was finished up by, by you like towards the end or how, how did,

how did that book get put together?

Yeah.

So, as we settled it, you know, in the saddle area here, eventually,

you know, came back and worked studied electronics and eventually

the mom and dad the irony landed.

After a few, a few jobs here and there, he landed with Boeing, retired with Boeing,

the makers of, the makers of the Chinook.

My, my dad worked on the with the space program back then,

Cold War, ICBMs, all of that.

Mm hmm.

Yeah.

Program.

So he had military, fortunately military, you know, support military.

to, to get involved with projects like that.

Sure.

And in his spare time, he loved writing and he wrote in obviously Vietnamese.

Still broken, broken, broken English.

Had to relearn, you know, my mom had to learn English from, from scratch.

Settle and, and just worked hard, sacrifice, all of that.

All of that, all of those themes of having to start over again but in, in this case,

he had free time and when he did have free time wrote a lot in short stories that

were published in Vietnamese newspapers, not only in Seattle, but in other

Vietnamese communities all over the U.

S. And so, he wrote several, several stories and in the past few years,

I was able to finally find many of these files were documents cool

laying around and got it translated.

My, you know, leaving Vietnam.

I left one year old.

I mean, first grade.

Yeah.

And so, didn't get to to go further into my own Vietnamese language and assimilated

quickly into America, into into, you know, living in a, in a new country.

And so, yeah, in the past year here was able to compile all of this.

And one of the things my mom told me.

was that his dream was to actually put his own book together, right?

Of all the short stories that he had.

Unfortunately with all, you know, Alzheimer's took, took him early and

and, and didn't get a chance to do that.

And so I wanted to, honor him.

And that timing was right in terms of 50 years since in 2025 here.

That we reflect back 50 years of the fall of of Saigon.

And so the timing was right and hence you know, putting all this together, the book.

That's great.

Oh, that's amazing.

I love that you were able to do that because that's you get to re experience

some of that, you know, I'm sure as you're, as you're collecting those stories

together and then reading back through them, putting them together that anything

you do like any project like that, all right, and I'm preaching to the choir,

you're really going to get into that and really know how he felt and what

an what an amazing opportunity for you

Yeah, and it's a, I mean, this is a historically significant story, right?

This is something people need to know.

It's real.

It happened.

It happened to your family specifically, which means you can weigh in more on

the actual facts and what happened.

I mean, you're a primary source.

So it really is great for you to tell this story.

And like you said, it's the 50th anniversary and people.

You know, people are sometimes so confused about Vietnam.

They're so confused about what happened there and, and what was it about.

And I think this is, these kind of stories need to be told by people.

Like, we need to understand what was happening there and what

happened to the people there.

And that, you know, what America tried to do to help.

And like, even your family coming to America and, you know, assimilating

and being welcomed with open arms and being so You know a country

that was able to help in and give you guys a new life from nothing.

Yes.

From underwear, right?

Yes.

But the heroic thing your father did to do that is just amazing.

And I think, I think more stories like this need to be told.

Yeah.

And I think this is a fantastic, real, historic story.

They could make this into a Hollywood movie, in my opinion, right?

I mean That's, it's a culminating event, but a lot of uncertainty at the end

and, and all, all the stuff at play.

So, I love that you got to put this book together.

The you know, themes of leadership, survival.

Overcoming obstacles, all of those things, we all go through

it in our own personal way.

Absolutely.

This is just my dad's, you know, look at it, approach it, life with it.

And so the book is filled with stories of, you know, drama, excitement,

betrayal, survival, leadership.

All of those things it's embodied within this book.

The and as I, you know, I shared with you earlier in this conversation,

this was a story that I grew up as a kid, throughout my life.

Hearing my dad talk with his buddies, smoking a cigarette,

drinking a beer you know.

And listening in as I, you know, listening into these stories, and, and again, these

were stories for many, many years, and it wasn't, it wasn't again until the U.

S. Navy, all of this, you know, reconnection in, again, 2010, 2009

timeframe that finally saw pictures, finally saw some of these, And I'm

thinking I'm like, man, my dad was telling the truth, you know, we got pictures.

It's like that.

It's like that fishing story, right?

Your buddy.

Yeah.

I caught that, you know, that 25 pound salmon.

Oh yeah.

Where's the picture?

No picture.

Not, you know what I'm saying?

You know?

Yeah.

So we got, we got all of those.

So thank you for again, Captain Kirk, Jan Herman.

U. S. Navy, U. S. S. Kirk, all the crewmen, and just, and the,

the, the church folks that have helped us along this whole journey.

That's amazing.

That's

amazing.

So, where can people get your book at?

Oh Barnes Noble.

Okay.

Amazon.

Just, it's, it's all online.

And then there's also the PBS special.

Yeah, yeah, so the, the, the, the film Last Days in Vietnam, again, written

and produced by Rory Kennedy and team it's on Netflix and they're, you know, yeah.

We'll include links to all of that stuff in the show notes and for the video

version of this podcast for you guys who are watching we'll include links to, to

everything here in the video description.

And Mickey, you so much, thank you so much for, you know, reaching

out to us and joining us today.

We love hearing stories like this, especially as, you know, a veteran

and someone who's currently serving, you know, veteran one day myself and

just everything that your family did in the stories that you're getting

to tell of your father's heroism.

We, we really do appreciate you, you coming on and joining us and,

and telling your part of the story.

And I love the little anecdotes there.

You know, about the peanut butter and the chiclets.

It just, it just makes me smile,

I wanted to fulfill my dad's dream, number one, with

the book and to honor him.

It's the least I can do for him, giving so back, so much to myself and my family.

And to continue to share his his story.

This is, you know, the history, right?

His story.

Yeah, that's right.

This is my dad's story.

Yeah.

And so, Yeah, thank you both Scott and Jen for the opportunity for me to be on

your platform and share my family's story.

Yeah, well we're excited to get this out there and to share

this with our audience and hopefully people go check out the book.

Remind me of the official name of the book.

Oh, The Last Flight Out?

The Last Flight Out.

And

is that the

helicopter?

That's that's him.

That's wow.

Yeah.

All right.

So so folks check out the go go to their show notes and check out

the last flight out and Mickey.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Yeah.

Thank you.

God bless you.

Thank you.

Jen, I enjoyed his story so much.

It was, I, it was hard to fathom and then hearing him tell it from,

his perspective as a six and a half year old was just riveting.

You know, it's one of those that truth is braver than fiction,

you know, like what his father did is, is stuff that movies are made out of.

It's stuff you see in movies that you're like, there's no way that could happen.

There's no way that would work.

And it did in his case and what his dad did without any training.

He just did it.

I mean, a father's heart to get his family safe and out of a country that's

about to fall like it was just amazing.

And to celebrate this on the 50th anniversary of the fall of Saigon.

More people need to understand what's happening in Vietnam and the

repercussions of that and what a refugee crisis looks like in this case.

It was just, it was amazing to tell the story.

It

was amazing.

I loved some of the anecdotes that he told us about the

peanut butter and the chiclets.

If you guys are interested in this book, please look in the video description

or the podcast show notes description for a link to The Last Flight Out.

This has been a Walk With History production.

Talk With History is created and hosted by me, Scott Bennie.

Episode researched by Jennifer Bennie.

Check out the show notes for links and references mentioned in this episode.

Talk With History is supported by our fans at thehistoryroadtrip.

com.

Our eternal thanks to those providing funding to help keep us going.

to Doug McLiverty, Larry Myers, and Patrick Bennie.

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and we'll talk to you next time.