Welcome to, but for Real, a variety show podcast co-hosted by two therapists

who also happened to be loud mouth.

I'm Valerie, your resident elder, millennial

child free cat lady, and I'm Emerson, your resident, chronically online Gen Z brat.

And on the show we'll serve up a new episode every other week that will take

you on a wild ride through the cultural zeitgeist, mental health and beyond.

You'll

definitely laugh and TBH sometimes maybe cry a little because this

is a silly and serious show.

Buckle up my friends, and let's get into today's episode.

Hi.

We're back.

We're back.

And better than ever, perhaps.

That's right.

We'll find out shortly.

We'll find out here soon.

So I wanted to kick us off.

I've just been noodling.

Mm-hmm.

It is.

We're entering sweaty season.

Yes.

Woof.

Mm-hmm.

So, I wanna know, and we were just joking about plugging a wall of water bottle.

So what are your three summer staples?

You can't live without it.

In sweaty, bum crack, Tennessee.

Yeah.

The humidity, the heat.

All of the above.

So what's your trifecta?

You know, I, I'm glad that you that I saw the preview of this question.

'cause I think if I had to answer it on the spot, I'd be like, I don't

fucking know ac, praise the ac.

Yeah, it's very true.

But I put a little thought into it.

Wow.

And my, so one is the.

Cool.

Plus pillow from coop.

Okay.

Which is the best pillow I have ever had.

Ooh.

In fact, like I have become so obsessed with this pillow that you travel with it.

I had to buy the travel version because if I'm gonna pack that baby into a

carry on, I gotta have the smaller one.

Um,

there's something about being in your thirties and now never

going anywhere with your pillow.

Yeah.

I say as I'm 25, but I'm like, I feel like it's my 30-year-old friends.

It's coming for me and it's, and I'm seeing it.

And I had a rude awakening when I woke up at the Radisson Hotel at the

Mall of America a couple months ago.

And I was like, oh, she can't move.

Oh, my neck is necky.

So that was it for me.

I bought the travel version and this pillow, and it is so cooling.

Um, the, the extra, the little cool plus case is just feels so good.

So that's one athletic brewing upside down.

It is a golden non-alcoholic, uh, beer and it is so good.

Mm. Perfect.

For the pool, for the beach, for any time of day.

Sure.

Um, and then I put swimming pools.

Shout out to swimming pools.

Swimming pools.

But I will say one thing that's not great about like being a real adult is

if you have a house and you no longer can get into an apartment complex pool.

That's true.

I do miss it.

Yeah.

So, and I, and I wish, honestly that I liked.

Natural swimming holes better.

But they're all so cold here.

Very cold.

So cold.

So, and I'm just not, everyone's like Red River bitch.

I flipped a canoe when I was 16 and the snake swam past me.

So like, no thank you.

Catch me in chlorinated water or the ocean.

'cause I respect her.

I'm a crab.

So I respect her and fear her deeply.

And we should.

Yeah.

And that's how we should feel about most women in our lives, to be honest.

Uh, what are your summer must haves?

Okay.

Mine is kind of on the fly, which is hilarious 'cause I asked

this question so I would have to agree with the swimming pool.

Mm-hmm.

You will catch me swimming all summer.

You will catch me baking like a little baked chicken on the side with SPF 50.

Everyone.

'cause I'm, I'm Aaba as we discussed prior.

Um, so definitely a swimming pool.

I think I like your, I like your choice of bev.

Mine is definitely going to be kombucha.

Okay.

Boot.

I'm having Abu Summer.

Okay.

I mean, I'm kind of having a boots day every day, but it's extra.

There's something a little extra and maybe you go for like a tropical,

like a pineapple or something.

Yes.

The golden pineapple synergy.

Oh yeah.

You know, I'm like, I'm rocking Miss Synergy.

So Really?

Yeah, like on a nice, like nice crunchy ice.

It's just very gorgeous.

Very bubbly, very fermented.

Um, and then I think legitimately for the past two summers, and

now this is like a legit summer staple is hypochlorous acid spray.

Ooh.

Are you familiar?

No, bitch.

I'm about to change your life.

Okay, so Hypochlorous acid spray, you can literally spray it on anything.

So I'm talking your sweaty ass Crocs.

Your face after you've worked out.

Okay.

So like if you're, especially if you've like done a little workout or if you're

just walking around the farmer's market.

Okay.

Sweating ass.

It just kills the bacteria on your face.

Mm-hmm.

So like I'm in the dreaded mid twenties acne, I'm like in the second

puberty, so I'm always just trying to like, yeah, keep the face clean.

But like under the pits, I've sprayed my dog's bed with it.

It's like not harmful.

Okay.

Everyone's like acid.

I'm like, girl, it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

You're gonna briefly smell pool water.

It's a little chlorinated, I'm not gonna lie.

I kind of love the smell of chlorine.

Okay.

Me too.

I would go swimming as a kid and then I would like smell my skin

and my parents would be like, Hey, you can stop doing that.

And I'm like, well, sorry, I'm intense about it.

So you do get a little bit of.

Okay.

Like pool and spa depot.

Okay.

It's kind of giving, um, but then it subsides and I instantly feel refreshed.

There's like, has to be either, it's a like internal cooling agent to me.

Yeah.

Where I'm like, wait, but it's so Okay.

Good.

It's so refreshing and just like, kind of keeps the yuckies

at bay when you're sweating.

It's great for a beach day.

Okay.

Is there a, a brand you recommend?

I, what is it called?

Brio Tech maybe.

Okay.

Is what I've ordered before and I like it 'cause it came in two bottles.

So I have a home one and a purse one.

Mm-hmm.

Which is tea.

But I've also tried, I know I haven't tried it yet, but it's

on my list to try prequel.

I think it's like a skincare brand, so I wanna try theirs.

Okay.

But you don't have to get like a super name brand one,

like it's all the same shape.

Right.

Same chemical compound.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sweet.

I'll check it out.

Okay.

Sweaty summer.

We're coming.

Okay, now it's time for our first segment, tea and Crumpets, where we tell you what

we can't stop talking about this week.

What you got?

I threw down The Handmaid's Tale.

I am working my way through season six, which is the last season.

Did it stop or is

that like the, just the most recent, like what You mean the final?

Yeah.

Like is it the final done?

The final, yes.

Okay.

Because I never watched it.

Yes.

Was I was too scared.

Um, it's fucking scary.

Yeah.

And so I've literally watched and I've been binging and I don't binge the show.

And if you watch the show, don't fucking binge it.

'cause it's dark.

Oh yeah.

And I've, I've like laid in a hole where I'm like, but I was

like, I need to get this done.

But I am, I notoriously, um, put off the last episode of a show.

Oh.

Because I, I don't want it to end.

So I'm waiting for this weekend for me to have like.

My full moment to watch the finale, but it's been fucking crazy so far, just like

everything that's happening and I, I can't stop talking about it for that reason.

And then I also can't stop talking about the fact that like, I really

sat with myself and I was like, wait, I've been watching this

show since like, I was in college.

Okay.

And I remember like my, like six, like six summers ago, like messy

Situationship summer, and I was watching the show and like with this man who

like, I think hated me, like just yikes, like, and it was just so messy.

And I was sitting watching a show and for whatever reason I was like, wait

a minute, I'm not doing this anymore.

Like for whatever reason.

That's great.

Like this show like kind of helped me Yeah.

Shift perspective where I was like really centering this man and

like obviously this whole society.

Yeah.

This totalitarian society is completely centering men.

And so I was just like.

Feeling a little bit dramatic at the time, right?

Where I was like, how do, how have I just like decided or whatever.

But I did and it was the best thing ever.

And I really found like my own second wave of feminism in that, like my

personal journey in that where I was like, yeah, well you know what?

Fuck this.

Like yeah, I'm not doing this.

Like I don't seek to center men in this way, so I will not do it anymore.

Wow.

And so it was really that show just like really, I don't know, like

tickled my brain cells a little bit.

And so now when I'm watching it all these years later, I'm kind of like, holy fuck.

And I'm also scared because everything that's happening there are like real

life reflections that are happening.

So it is existential.

Um, but I really think anyone could get something out of this show, but don't

binge it 'cause it's really intense.

Yeah.

And I just love that as an example of the power of fiction, right?

Yes.

Because like we talk about, you know, I, how I'll freak out when

I find a fiction book that I love 'cause I don't read a lot of it.

'cause I'm just like, who has the time?

Yeah.

And you know, there's all these great nonfiction books

I wanna read and et cetera.

Mm-hmm.

And so sometimes I get in that mindset of like, fiction, whether

it's like TV or um, books.

It feels like a waste of time.

And I'm like, no, because like literally the research tells us that

it expands our capacity for empathy.

Yes.

So, uh, yeah, that's really cool.

That personal example, really like personal moment.

Yeah.

So I was like, okay, cool.

Thank you here meo.

And also I'm scared of the show.

Yeah.

Wow.

Sure.

So.

Okay, well mine is, I finally watched Flow last night.

Okay.

Have you seen it?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So Flow.

It's, it's the, uh, Oscar winner for, I mean the ones that just happen.

So for 20, 24.

Okay.

Films, um, for best animated feature.

Oh, okay.

Normally, I'm not a big animation girl.

Same, except for like the Pixars because I mean, the stories are just phenomenal.

Um, but I'd heard enough good things about this film and the cast is animals.

That is it.

And also, unlike a Pixar film, there is no dialogue.

It is the animals do not use words.

They are using their animal sounds.

So this hour and 20 minute long feature, which was made by, I think Latvia is kind

of the main country, but it was like a partnership between, uh, some production

companies and several countries.

Interesting.

In Europe.

And it was so funny 'cause like, so it's streaming on Max, if you wanna find it.

Okay.

Excuse me.

HBO max.

We are just a little bit fickle in our branding.

Um, but it's, so we turn it on last night and you know how in the beginning

of a movie they, they show you like whatever production companies do it

and sometimes there's like two or three and you're just like, oh, okay, cool.

Partnership, right?

Yeah.

Like it takes a village.

There were like 12.

We were just like, it just keeps coming.

Oh my God.

Okay.

But, and they, they used, they used this open source.

Like free, um, computer graphics, like so animation software to make it really

over the span of five and a half years.

So it took quite a while to make, oh my God, why did that

almost make me start crying?

Oh my god.

Know, it's the dedication.

Yes.

And now this Latvian film because I guess the director is Latvian.

Yes.

And so now it is like the pride of this country.

Like they put up a statue of the cat who's kind of the main character in

Lavia because of how well this has done.

It was the most watched movie in Latvian theaters in history.

So they're so proud of this film and they should be.

It is.

I will say heartbreaking, but not in like a, like oh really

bad things happen to Sure.

I mean there's, yes, there's some painful moments.

If you go to does the dog die.com, which is a great website by the

way, if you don't know about it.

It, you originally started off as just like, Hey, I wanna watch this movie,

but I can't watch it if the dog dies.

So does it or not.

Right?

I know as a cancer,

how have I never known

about this?

So now it's like there's all of these like user generated TA categories Sure.

Of like, was a child abandoned, was, was there abusive parents?

Like all of these potential triggers.

Oh wow.

And users go in who've watched the film and they say like,

thumbs up or thumbs down.

So it's like, 'cause there might be disagreement on like, well

was that child abuse or not?

Right.

Whatever.

Um, was that animal abuse?

So, so you can go if, if you're sensei like me, uh, although I

fear if I had looked at it, I may not have watched the film.

Sure.

It not that bad.

Like there's a lot of goodness.

I would say the goodness overwhelms.

The painful parts.

Okay.

But it was, she was crying.

I'm sure if there's animals I'm crying.

Yes.

Animals

in vulnerable situations.

Yes.

And also

like post-apocalyptic world.

Yikes.

Yeah.

Spooky.

So I know we both kind of were on our dystopian lure truly.

And it is definitely worth the watch.

So check out.

Okay, now it's time for step into my office where you get

advice from your favorite professionally qualified, personally

peculiar therapist.

Okay.

So this listener says Hi Lan M my therapist is encouraging me to join a

women's group to have some extra support, but I'm kind of freaked out about it.

The groups I attended during my residential treatment and IOP

were inconsistent sometimes great.

But other times, uh, felt like it was a revolving door of

facilitators and participants.

What have you taken from group experiences that you think is

valuable for folks like me to know?

Thanks, curiously connecting.

Ooh, do it.

I know.

Do it.

Do it.

It'll be so fun.

And so like, obviously we'll get into the nitty gritties of like who

and what with group stuff, but you know, already like, good points here.

You're in individual therapy.

Yeah.

And so like, that's always a really strong part.

Some people don't need, um, like don't want groups because they

say, well, I'm an individual.

So, yeah.

What is it?

Like, what's the difference?

There's tons of differences, right?

In a really good way.

Um, and especially if you are, you know, you put here like

looking for extra support.

So connecting with other people is exactly what that space is for.

And getting to mirror and share your story and learn about other people.

And so I really hear the parts too.

In groups that I've had, we've kind of talked about.

If folks have done residential or, or if they've done IOP and some of the

differences, and this isn't like a we're gonna shit on IOP and resident.

Not at all.

Those are like very valuable components of treatment for some folks.

And sometimes those aren't necessarily closed groups, right?

Like people are coming and going because everyone's, um, you know,

treatment path is different.

And so there can also then be rotating of facilitators just

depending on that as well.

So if you're looking for somewhere, I think this listener, uh, is with

having more of like an outpatient experience, you may end up picking a

closed group versus an open one, which just means people can come and go.

Mm-hmm.

You know, pretty much at any time.

And then there's like kind of things in the middle of that, which is

sort of like what we do, where it's like you can join at any time that

there's a spot, but we want you to stay for at least a few months.

Commit some consistency there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

Any thoughts for them?

Yeah, I just, I, I, I, like I said, I know we will get into a lot of the details

of it, but I just say, give it a shot.

Give it a shot.

Why give it a shot?

Because there's so much that you might be surprised that you would gain.

And it is a while.

I agree with you and I, having worked in residential groups, like

I've seen some incredibly powerful things happen in that setting.

Yes.

But I do think it's a little bit apples and oranges.

So if your experience there wasn't great, like.

I would say still give groups a try.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yay.

Okay.

Welcome to the Lord where we share anonymous listener submitted

stories about literally anything.

The more cringe or jaw dropping, the better.

To submit your story for our future episode, find deets on the gram at, but

for real pod or at gaia center.co/podcast, I'm going to, as we're entering summer,

as we're in May, um, I'm thinking about a few summers ago when I graduated

college and I went with my two besties from high school and my breasted from

college Valerie, uh, to New Orleans also look at me also just like blending friend

groups, like how Kind of cute and hell.

Yeah.

Um, that trip was fucking crazy.

Uh, and of course it is, right?

Like we're 21, 22 and we're just like in New Orleans and like, it's like.

COVID stuff has lifted a little bit, but like, we're still masking at the airport.

You know, like there's just things.

And so the thing that I wanted to talk about is I got caught in a stampede.

Yikes.

Literally.

And so it was fucking scary.

So this was maybe our, like second to last night, me, Francesca

Kaylin are on Bourbon Street.

I've just re-upped us.

I'm the one buying the frozen hurricane.

So like we're just walking our way up, you know, it's 2:00 AM.

Mm-hmm.

So it's kind of getting that time and, but we were staying right in the French

Quarter and Valerie was at the hotel safe.

Um, and so I just remember, I just remember turn also, I'm drunk.

Hey, it's, it's 2:00 AM I'm lit. Like Yeah.

It's that time.

Mm-hmm.

And I just remember turning around, like hearing loud noises and I turned around.

And there is just, there are people just like rushing and, I mean like crowds.

Wow.

It's probably like hundreds of people, right?

Yeah.

Just running towards me.

And I'll be honest, when it comes to like my fight or flight,

I'm, I'm prone to freezing.

I've like frozen multiple times in certain situations in my life, that's been really

difficult and I've had to do a lot of work around because I'm prone to freeze.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know what the drinks, I must have just thrown it.

I must have literally just thrown the drink and I started running.

I took off because everyone's running towards me and so I'm

thinking, Jesus, of course.

I'm thinking, is there a shooting?

You know, like your brain is going a million places all at once.

I'd never been in a situation like this before.

Sorry.

We have not.

And um.

And I remember, you know, kind of like how they do with Broadway, where like

they'll put up those little barriers.

Barricades.

Yeah, barricades.

A barricade comes down and people start piling up on top of one another.

And I see Francesca running and Frannie my darling friend, she's

one of my little short friends.

And I literally just had this moment where I was like, she's about to

end up underneath a ton of people.

Oh my God.

And I, so I literally grabbed her with all of my might Mama a bear

pulled her so hard, she thought someone was taking her purse.

So she's holding on her purse.

She ripped someone's purse off of their body because it was so frantic.

Everyone's just like packed.

Everyone is just packed and frantic and running and falling over each other.

Like it was dangerous.

It was scary.

Wow.

And so we eventually found like got by a cop car and I'm like

ducking under this cop car.

I'm thinking people are spraying like I've no idea.

And we're just holding the per and Frannie goes.

I'm holding someone's purse and I just went, oh my God.

And so we left it by the cop car.

I was like, they'll take care of it.

And it all just, the adrenaline finally like settled.

And I just looked at the two of them and I just sobered up

and I started freaking out.

I mean, I'm crying, I'm panicking.

Yeah.

And so the three of us just like looped arms and they were so good with me.

They were like, it's okay.

Like you can see the hotel right there.

It's okay.

Yeah.

Like we're almost back and Valerie's there and it's okay.

Like they were so nice to me.

Wow.

And I was just like, I can't believe it.

Yeah.

And it's like three in the morning and I'm like, did we almost just die?

Wow.

Do you know if there were any serious injuries?

No.

Because I Google, I'm so curious.

Yeah.

I, I'm

like, I was on Twitter the next day.

I'm like, accident or shooting on Bourbon Street.

I'm trying to watch the local news.

Nothing.

Yeah, nothing.

And so I'm like, were they just closing up shop?

And everyone's like, someone's being drunk and stupid and starts doing that.

But like, it made me think of when you're in the movie theater, you can't yell fire.

Right, right.

Like, it's kind of one of those instances where like we all

will feed off of each other.

Right.

In that way.

So of course this is like one of my first big friend trips, like, call my

parents the next day and I'm like, Hey.

Um, and my mom is like, okay, bye.

My mom's like, oh my God.

You know, like freaking out.

I was like, fuck.

I like, shouldn't have told her.

Yeah.

But also I was

freaked

out and

also you were Okay fine.

Oh god.

And it's like so many stories like that, it's like the first

line is like, everything is okay.

But yeah, like my brain was

like, what if it's on the news and they're gonna freak out?

So I was just like, Hey, like wow, I'm fine.

So it was.

Fucking scary.

Wow.

No

kidding.

The

more time passes, we laugh about it a little bit more now, but there's

still very much that part of me that was like, are we gonna die?

Well, and like most of us, it's kind of like when you're a kid and they

tell you like, here are the things you should be scared of based in like

movies and like Indiana Jones shit.

Right, right.

And you're like, oh God, quicksand.

Most of us have not had any encounters.

Right.

And I feel similarly about like a stampede, like it's just kind of not a

common thing for most of us to encounter.

No.

So I never really was like worried about encountering it.

No.

But then I remember hearing maybe like 10 years ago or something,

maybe less, I'm gonna have to look up and I don't remember.

It was, I think an Asian city.

Like a big city.

Yeah.

That there was around Halloween maybe, or on Halloween.

That there was a stampede and it killed like hundreds of people.

No, people will die

from being trampled.

Yeah.

People can die.

It's terrifying.

It's really scary.

Oh, so I'm so glad that you guys made it.

I hope there were no serious injuries, but like I know.

Same.

Please don't stampede each other.

No.

And

sorry to the lady whose purse we snatched.

We left it by the cop car.

I hope you got it back.

I know Snatcher purse, like Oh yeah.

The desk grip on the purse.

So my God, be careful if you go to New Orleans because it's,

it can be fucky around there.

Yes, yes.

Mm.

And now it's time for the DSM.

In our DSM, all varieties of dysfunction, spiraling, and meltdowns are welcome.

In this segment, we break down complicated concepts and common misconceptions

about mental health, wellbeing, and tell you what we really think.

Today we're talking about group therapy, and I wanted to kick us

off with, of course, the zady of groups, the dad of existentialism.

We talked about him last episode, so I thought this was fitting.

But of course, from Irvin Yalom, he has this beautiful quote

from his book, the Theory and Practice of Group Psychotherapy.

Quote, people need people for initial and continued survival for socialization,

for the pursuit of satisfaction.

No, no one.

Not the dying, not the outcast, not the mighty.

Transcends the need for human contact.

Ugh.

I just

love him.

So good.

It's so funny.

Good.

We have like a couple of brand new baby interns.

Yes.

And I had my first supervision with them yesterday.

They haven't had any clients yet, and they were like, any

like resources you recommend?

I was like, y'all Irv Y's, uh, gift of Therapy, Betty.

And then I went on, I was just like giving the whole spiel on

him and he's just phenomenal.

So, so good.

But yes, he did, he did write one of the sort of like textbooks on group therapy.

Yes.

So any of y'all clinicians know we're talking about.

But yeah.

What is it that brings people to groups?

Because it's such an interesting thing, right?

Like we can't argue with yams statement that people need people.

Sure.

But like, oh, why do we need group therapy for that?

Mm-hmm.

So there might be a, a lot of reasons that someone could.

Seek out group therapy.

A lot of times it might be like a specific group or topic that they're looking

for, like a grief group or, I mean, and it can get very specific, right?

Sure.

Especially with the internet now.

I mean, uh, but even in person, like I have a, one of my best friends, God,

um, this is gonna sound horrible 'cause she bounced back and forth between,

uh, Puerto Rico and Grand Cayman.

Mm-hmm.

So I can never remember which one she currently lives in, but, um,

whichever one, like not a huge like metropolitan New York City type place.

Sure.

But she even found like a survivors of suicide, um, in person group.

And she, she, it was her first group therapy kind of experience

and she just raved about it.

Yeah.

Um, and so it could be something really specific like that, but

also just like people who are seeking connection generally, like.

Yeah.

Even in this like arguably more connected than ever world, obviously many of us

are feeling more disconnected than ever.

Yes.

When you move to a new city, it's hard to meet new people.

And so if you're looking to forge friendship, and this is kind of an

interesting thing that, um, I, we may get into in a, at a later point, um,

more in the conversation, but just like therapists will have differing opinions

on like whether they encourage or recommend that their group participants

like do form outside relationships.

Yeah.

My opinion is like, why the fuck would we stop that?

That's the point.

Like sure, it could, there could be complications that arise.

Sure.

But, um, and so it's, and that's not a requirement.

Like it's not that you like have to go and make friends

with your group therapy people.

No.

Um, 'cause those relationships can be incredibly meaningful even if they

primarily just happen in that room.

Yes.

But um, yeah, so I wanted to say that, so for some people that meeting potential

friends is a reason they might go.

And then of course there's, for some people, uh, it's just gonna be what

you're thrown into if you're going into intense outpatient or PHP or residential.

And again, like having worked in that setting for years, I would get to

see the whole spectrum of experiences of people coming in who are like

totally gung-ho to like jump right in.

Mm-hmm.

And share and just could, would get so much out of the group experience.

And then others who were either really intimidated and kind of

guarded and scared, or ones who were just like, fuck this, I hate groups.

Yeah.

Groups are not helpful.

And you know, sometimes they would stay in that place and other times

you would see them kind of open up and you would see that shift

for them, which was really cool.

Um, but yes, often it is, um, just going to be a thing that is a part of.

Uh, an experience like that, it's, it's the bulk of the experience

at those higher levels of care.

And then there might be things like court mandated groups as well.

Yes.

But outpatient groups, you can find, um, both online and in

person, depending where you're at.

So many different types of topics, but also more broad, kind of general, like

women's groups that there's, you know, not necessarily a specific topic, but just,

uh, maybe a population kind of thing.

Yeah.

Um, so as far as the types of groups, um, process groups are kind of where

you're in the space and you're just, there's like open sharing, right?

Yes.

So like whatever is coming up for you in your life.

And then what's really cool is you'll get into like the

relational interpersonal dynamics.

So the shit that comes up in group, sometimes in those relationships

or in those interactions.

Is what we call grist for the mill.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's, it's valuable in and of itself.

So even if there's conflicts that happen in the group or just things that come up

in the group dynamics, that would be a big part of, uh, or at least a, a part

of what would happen in that processing.

Um, but also people are bringing stuff just from their lives

and then connecting around it.

Right.

And it's not about advice giving, it's not to say that

there's never a place for that.

Sure.

Like there's, you know, sometimes people might request that and there

maybe there's a safe way of doing that.

But generally it is about connecting and relating, um,

having something mirrored to you.

Then there's also psychoeducational or skills focused groups.

So those are a little bit more where the facilitator or the therapist is in more

of a teacher, um, kind of educator role.

Like whether you are learning specific skills or you're learning about concepts.

Um, I personally love groups that kind of blend both of those,

which is a lot of what we do.

And then there's support groups, which are kind of an interesting territory because.

They're not always a support group.

Um, can, could be led by a mental health professional, but it doesn't have to be.

Yes.

Right.

And so it's really not considered a, a service of therapy.

Um, but it could be offered at a practice that offers therapy.

Yeah.

So it's kind of that in-between, like even the 12 step would be considered sort of a

type of support group or peer peer group.

Sure.

Um, but there's many of those as well, which can also be really valuable.

And you know, the, even though groups can feel really scary and intimidating

'cause you're like walking into this group of, of strangers, it's very, yeah.

It's very new kid of, new kid at school vibe.

Totally.

But it's also the what can happen in that development mm-hmm.

Of the space.

Like, yes, you walk in, you're kind of like, uh, I don't know about these people.

We'll see.

And then usually there's a process of kind of forming the, the guidelines

or kind of ground rules of the group.

And that creates some safety.

And the more that that familiarity develops with good facilitation, it can

really become a safe, a truly safe space.

There's, uh, these group stages that are kind of 1 0 1.

Any of us who've who've done group work or learned about groups and,

and I'm sure this is true for obviously not just therapy groups,

but groups of humans in general.

Yes.

That, um, I saw it with like team development.

Yes.

Totally.

So Tuckman came up with these stages.

Called forming, storming, norming, performing in adjourning,

adjoining all the ings.

I know.

And, and just the rhyming.

We love a rhyme.

Right?

Wow.

If we can't have an acronym, we need a rhyme, honey.

I learned that for the NCE quickly.

So, so just those stages of like Yes.

Uh, it is normal for that storming to happen.

Yes.

When you are figuring each other out, we're figuring out

what are our dynamics together.

Mm-hmm.

We're, we're learning each other's quirks.

So just know all that to say, like, know that that's a normal part of the process.

Even if things get messy, it doesn't mean that they won't sort of settle.

Yeah.

Um, that's a very normal, normal arc. And then the group cohesion

is really a powerful way that, of moving people toward, meaning making

from their shared experiences.

Right?

Yes.

And, and what's so cool is that we'll get into this more that people from so

many different walks of life who might be shocked that they can relate on things.

Can indeed find those valuable shared experiences.

And that is one of the coolest things

and, and really like with M'S principles, which, you know, we opened with his, with

his, uh, practice of group psychotherapy.

So like he, uh, yalom established very specific principles, universality.

Mm-hmm.

That's like the biggest, and probably even how I approach groups.

That's the number one thing I'm always thinking about.

You may all never have known each other outside of the space.

You may not have passed each other on the street and connected in this way, but

here we are and how interesting is that?

And so we often talk about.

Um, the group being the mirror or the group as the

therapist, even as Yalom says.

Yeah.

So the idea that the group itself, that container, that space becomes the healing

agent, and so universality, right?

Realizing that you're not the only one that feels alone.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you're not the only one that's here dealing with grief or anxiety or needing

DVT skills or anything of that matter.

So being able to have a mirror held to your aloneness, your struggles,

um, your own humanity is important.

Interpersonal learning, so seeing yourself more clearly and being able to safely do

that with how other people see you again.

The container being a safe place for relational work in that way.

Corrective emotional experiences.

I think this is one that maybe surprises folks the most about groups.

So being able to see, to be seen in a completely vulnerable state

and being accepted or reflecting something in a group space that maybe

you've held a lot of shame about.

And having someone say, me too, I've done that too.

Or, I felt that way too.

Um, and so sometimes it's the connectedness or it's having people say,

I never would've thought or done that, but I'm glad that I heard about it from you.

Mm-hmm.

And that made me think about the world differently.

So any of those emotional experiences there.

And then again, kind of teetering with emotional risk and repair.

So sometimes in that storming process, we're kind of seeing.

Some behaviors, you know, maybe someone's prone to talking or feeling like

they're soaking up more of the space and other people are trying to figure

out what their space looks like here.

So being able to learn to sit in uncomfortable feelings of what people

are mirroring and be able to lean into that, um, in your own time.

Of course, everyone takes this in their own time and the vibes of

the group and the cohesion, like we've been saying is important.

But being able to reflect your own experiences and also sitting back

and listening is a huge component of group and I feel like really

helps people think about their relationship to active listening skills.

Mm-hmm.

And then how you apply that in your relationships, how you apply that

with yourself, what that means.

So being able to take risks in that space and.

Be offered corrective experiences can offer something that individual

therapy cannot give to some people.

And so it's really interesting if and when that happens.

Yeah, absolutely.

And one of the common sort of things that comes up for people, like before they're

trying to make a commitment to mm-hmm.

Do I want to join this group or do I even wanna consider

group therapy to begin with?

Sure.

Is like, oh my God, what if I hate it though.

Yeah.

Right.

What, what if I hate it?

I'm scared.

So there's some common barriers and fears to joining groups

that we wanted to talk about.

And it's funny because as, as you were talking and, and having this conversation,

it's so, it's always meta, right?

Like as clinicians, we always have to be willing to look at our own shit.

Yeah.

And so I've been in numerous support groups.

Mm. And found a lot of value in that.

I've not been in a, aside from like a one off.

A traditional therapy, like ongoing group.

Same.

And, and because I've been on the other side of that and seeing how valuable

that is, I'm sitting here going, girl, why don't you walk your talk with this?

Mm. Right.

And so then I started going through all of these thoughts of like, but what if, but

what if people in the community see me who know me in this group and like, whatever.

Right?

Yeah.

So like that's, you know, a common fear is like just being seen for who you are.

And I'm glad

you named that.

Yeah.

And like, you know, do people know of me, like whether you are like me, a

you know, a business owner, or you're someone who is, has any sort of public

presence, like I know that that can be a fear for people in general.

And I will just say like, we've seen a lot of that come through our doors here.

I've seen it in residential and it really does not have to be a barrier

because again, of course there's confidentiality and while that can

be a shared norm and agreement, like no, there's never any guarantees.

But I, I just.

I've never heard, I've never personally had any, had anyone come

back to group and be like, this person, I ran into this person and

they said blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

So I'm not saying it would never happen.

Sure.

But I think that generally people who, the kind of people who are showing up to

group therapy are going to be the kind of people who are gonna honor that agreement.

Yes.

'cause they want it to be honored for themselves.

So Yeah.

Confidentiality.

Yeah, exactly.

So there is that fear of being seen.

There's also comparison or shame.

Mm-hmm.

Or feeling like you don't belong.

And I think that's one thing that comes up for me too.

And I wanna just speak for like anyone who ha is feeling like, but do I need it?

Like do I really?

Yeah.

And do like, I need to speak today in group because like I'm doing okay.

Like all things considered.

So like I don't really need it.

She probably needs to talk more.

Mm. Right.

So like give yourself the space.

There is no, you do not have to be like quote unquote sick enough to

need group or to benefit from group.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

It's not about like.

Needing or comparing yourself to other people's suffering.

Um, what, whatever you're bringing matters and whatever you're bringing is

contributing to everybody's experience.

Um, of course another barrier could be, have you had a bad

past experience with a group?

And I hear that also a lot.

Yeah.

Right.

And not only like, just, you know, feeling safe sharing with

like peer groups in general.

Yes.

Which there can be a lot of wounds from that, that people have.

Um, but definitely like maybe there was a therapist who was not very skilled

in facilitating groups or there just, you know, it, some of it depends on the

milieu of who happens to be in the room.

Sure.

And not to say that like, oh, if you don't lo just like love everyone in your group,

like you wanna be besties with them, that it's not gonna be a good experience.

Sure.

But, you know, I can see how, depending on.

You know, who's in the group, who's leading the group.

Like yeah, there can be bad experiences.

Mm-hmm.

And then that could prevent someone from having a potentially really

amazing group experience if they are scared to give it another shot.

Um, of course there's feeling pressure to commit and different groups, like

you were saying, open versus close to sort of that terminology of is

it ongoing open enrollment, which is sort of open, or is it closed?

Like this group runs for these six to eight weeks or whatever it is.

Yeah.

And then it closes and then maybe we'll do another cycle of it.

So some, some, like a closed group, they do require commitment, but

it is a time limited commitment.

Yes.

So that's kind of nice.

And then for more open groups, like again, there's, it's not just like, oh, well

if you sign up, you're here for life.

Like some people choose to be.

And I know therapists in town who have been running groups that

have been going for 20 plus years.

Wow.

And I think that incredible.

Right.

Think of the power that happens in that room.

Damn.

So, but that's not like what you're signing up for, right?

No.

No.

So.

Um, and then of course, you know, like I said, the facilitation matters.

Um, and of course that doesn't mean that, again, you're gonna love every single

thing that the facilitator says or does.

Sure.

Um, but if you've had bad experiences in the past, like just know that

not everyone in every field is good at their job, but there are

people who are excellent at groups

and giving it a shot, right?

Mm-hmm.

You know, like the starting it is scary.

If you've had like, like we said earlier, like if you've had a

difficult or like not an aligned experience, that's totally fine.

And so I get that sometimes we have the polarity, well this left a Baptist

in my mouth so I'm not doing it.

And like, sure.

And if that's your truth, that's your truth.

And also like, be open.

Yeah.

You know, we know.

So let's talk about fit, because that's on the, like clinician backend.

That's something that we consider when we are a group facilitator.

And also it's a important conversation to have.

So I. Kind of getting into who and the whens when you, when you could be a good

fit for a group and what that means.

So you're feeling isolated and you want connection.

That's usually a huge one.

Yeah.

Most of the time when I kick a group off, why are you here?

Because I need to connect with people.

Mm-hmm.

I work from home.

I don't leave my house, or I'm a stay at home mom and I'm struggling, or whoever.

Yeah.

So again, goals, uh, groups are kind of helping reduce, uh, the loneliness.

We're looking at that universality and being supported.

So that's a big one.

You want to explore how you relate to others.

So again, we're looking at relational patterns, how you show up in conflict

or how you receive feedback again.

So if someone is giving you feedback, how do you take that?

What is that like for you?

Um, or just again, the, the vulnerability factor.

What is it like for you to show up?

Vulnerably and honestly, and I. Have the group members hold that for and with you.

Um, you're ready to be both supported and challenged.

Group therapy is not as kissing.

We're not all sitting around being like, and everyone's just like, girl.

Yes.

Right.

Okay.

This and that.

And I feel like that's a big misconception that a lot of people have where we're

all just, especially unfortunately of, uh, with, uh, fem or women Yeah.

Like dominated groups, that it's all just kind of this like, which

is just stereotypical and gross.

Yeah.

But like, there's been really powerful moments in those groups that I've ran

and it's not all about sitting around and just like enabling people, you know?

It's like actual real truth Yeah.

And stuff.

You're not

criticizing each other, but No, it's like there's, you're not blowing to

smoke up each other's ass either.

No.

And it, so it's this interesting space of like, yeah, we're not here

to evaluate each other good or bad.

Sure.

But we will hold a mirror that sometimes might be uncomfortable.

Yes.

Yeah.

And how can you tolerate that and what's that?

What is that like?

Um, you can listen and respect group agreements.

There are quite a, you know, a bit of stuff that goes in.

Can you honor the time boundaries?

Um, confidentiality, the shared norms.

Can you respect and honor the parts of you that you see in the group, group members?

And can you respect and honor the parts of yourself that you

don't see and what that means.

So kind of managing that, even if groups get emotional or tense,

being there and kind of, you know, sitting with a discomfort

opening your window of tolerance.

And lastly, and I think a really important one, you're doing okay

with basic emotional regulation.

I don't expect people when I'm running groups to walk in and like be the master.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you don't have to have, you know, all of the skills.

That's also some of the part of it when how we kind of blend teaching and process.

Um, but.

Having a basic kind of understanding of your triggers?

Yeah, perhaps, or, uh, being able to just manage sometimes the intense emotions

without completely shutting down, or most importantly being harmful to

yourself or others because that can add a different dynamic to the layers of group.

So yeah, again, you don't have to be the most like wise, whoever.

And also can you do some deep breathing, have some basic mindfulness,

whatever it means for you to feel regulated, to hold when it can get a

little bit uncomfortable inevitably.

Right.

In groups sometimes.

Yeah.

When we're with

people.

Because what happens otherwise is someone doesn't have like a little

bit of a foundation of that Yes.

Is like.

They might just storm out of the group.

Right.

Which isn't great.

I mean, and maybe that in the moment if that's really where that person is

at, that's maybe what needs to happen.

Sure.

Um, but it's, you know, it's not a great experience for them or anybody else.

Yeah.

Um, and I would say the only exception to that of like having that basic

foundation of emotion regulation is if you're doing something specifically

like a DBT group where the whole point is to gain those skills.

Yes.

Right.

Um, so, so that's a little bit about kind of like when you are a

good fit for group therapy mm-hmm.

For any of those, um, kind of considerations.

Let's talk about when maybe you're not the best fit for group

therapy, at least right now.

Yeah.

Um, so one would be if you are in acute crisis.

And again, there's some wiggle room here for like, there are such

things as crisis support groups.

Yes.

Where that is literally what they are doing.

Yes.

So we're talking more about like, if you're looking to join

a process group or something.

Sure.

You're probably wanting to be a little bit like, do your individual work,

get that little bit of foundation of stability underneath you, and then start

a group or look at a higher level of care where you will also get the group

experience, but you will have a little more, um, scaffolding and containment.

Yes.

Um, another thing to consider is if you struggle with a lot with impulse

control outbursts, like you dominate conversations, you interrupt a lot,

you are explosive in your reactions.

Obviously we can see how that would be difficult for group dynamics.

Mm-hmm.

So I would say like, find a DBT group or consider that higher level of care.

Um, do your individual work.

Yes.

And also you, you mentioned feedback and how that's important.

So if you.

Struggle to tolerate feedback.

And I think it's like if you struggle with that, you're probably breathing right.

You're human.

Yes.

'cause to some degree we all do.

Oh, sure.

But it's like, there has to be a level of willingness for some of that.

And again, a good facilitator is not gonna let anybody just

like, you know, start criticize.

Exactly.

But, but it is that space for relational work and mirroring.

And so it, it's actually a good opportunity to build those

muscles of being able to, to tolerate that kind of feedback.

But if you know that that's something you're maybe not ready for and you

need to expand that sort of window of tolerance, that's great work to do.

An individual.

Um, if you're processing trauma for the first time and again.

Mm-hmm.

If this is like a crisis support group thing, then that might just be what it is.

But in a typical outpatient process related group, um, you're gonna want

the one-on-one support for that initial.

Kind of round of processing.

And then you might also add on a tr sort of trauma support group as well.

Um, just 'cause that can be very heavy and intense for you.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

You just need that individualized, um, support and then if you expect the

group to fix you, and this could go with anything if you expect therapy to fix you.

Yeah.

If you expect pills to fix you.

Like, it's just, it's, it, it's all about, um, being engaged in the process

and taking accountability for what, how you need to show up and do the work too.

Yes.

So it's not about just like, oh, I'm gonna go to this group and get

advice and solve all my problems.

It's being in relationship, it's that relational consciousness.

So, word.

Yeah.

And kind of, you know, going back to the idea of like the fear of

committing, the fear of joining.

A lot of times there's opportunities to sort of test drive a group,

especially if it's an open group.

You can just be like, you know what, I'm just gonna.

Sign up and I'm gonna try it out and I don't know if I'm

gonna wanna do it long term.

Um, and then of course there are gonna be groups like ours where it's like, well we

do ask for a little bit of a commitment.

We'd prefer to not have people bounce in and out for one session.

Yes.

So instead of that, we have what we call group scaffolding

sessions where they're optional.

You can join a group without doing them.

Mm-hmm.

But there are these individualized sessions, 30, 40 minutes or individual

where the whole purpose is to talk with the group facilitator to get to know

them better, for them to get to know you better, to talk about the group

process, to learn a little bit about the current dynamics of the group and, and

really to do that one-on-one support.

And you can do that before you commit to the group.

You can do that while you're starting the group.

So that's something that we've created recently that we feel really proud of.

'cause it's just such a way of helping people land more gently in a group space.

Yes.

And feel more at home there.

Um, and then just remembering that, you know, committing to showing up ahead

of time can feel really scary, but if you're willing to give it some time,

that consistency can be super rewarding.

I'm thinking of one, uh, an example where there was a client who attended

a group once and was just like, oh, I don't know if this is for me.

I don't.

And one of our group therapist Callaway just responded so beautifully to her

and kind of, you know, challenged her to take up the space that she did not

allow herself to take up that time.

Yeah.

And it's going really well for this person.

So it's just like, give yourself that opportunity to give it a

little bit of time, see what it feels like to do that consistently.

Yes, absolutely.

One of the things I always like to throw down about groups, um,

and something that, you know.

It can be addressed in groups scaffolding, or when you're inquiring

about groups, oftentimes we look at groups and not everyone, uh, but as

like a financially accessible option.

Yeah.

You know, like being able to meet, it's typically at a quite a lower cost

than say someone's individual rate.

But again, having both and, um, and so not a lot of people know that

you can inquire about a sliding scale or a reduced fee spot.

Now not everyone does it.

That's totally fine.

But if you're wanting to kind of do that work and you think one of the main things

is finances is a barrier ask, you know?

Right.

It's, it's totally available to you for some practices and some folks to do that.

Yeah.

So that you could have that experience.

And I wonder if it'd be helpful for us to mention like what is sort of,

what's the going rate for group therapy?

Right.

Right.

Which is a hard question to answer because city to city, I.

You know, potentially internationally there could be a wide variability there.

Mm-hmm.

But I would say, well first of all, support groups are either

going to be free or low cost.

Yes.

Right.

Because they are not a clinical facilitated space necessarily.

Um, and so that's a really good option if you need to find something and you don't

have resources or you don't have much.

Yes.

Um, therapy groups, like I say, widely vary.

I would say anywhere between like $40 to like 80 ish per session.

And if it's a specialized group, it like that's like, you know, four weeks to this

or six weeks to this, it might even be a little bit more than that per session.

And then especially if you think about if there are two hour sessions or something,

they're probably gonna be more than that.

That's true.

So, um, and, and there's no magic number either for like how long a group is.

We've kind of experimented with different things.

We've done 60 minutes, 90 minutes, 75, and.

So it's, you know, just depends on the group topic and also the members

and what, what everyone is up for.

Yes.

Um, I personally love the sweet spot of like that 75 minutes Yep.

Fit that into your evening without it being overly cumbersome.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but yeah, we charge around 55 for our groups around that length.

Yes.

But I have seen in Nashville, those prices are climbing at a lot of places.

Okay.

And, you know, that's, that's our world we live in.

Yeah.

But, but I do think it is one of the ways that, um.

If a practice can offer that at a more accessible rate.

Sure.

That's a wonderful thing to be able to give more people access to services.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So definitely ask or inquire and kind of poke around if

you're interested in groups.

Um, and then I just like wanted to throw down our groups, like, Hey, we

do groups here and we do, and it's so fun if you live in Tennessee.

Yes.

If you live in Tennessee and would like to join, all of our

groups currently are being held in person, but PBD with virtual.

Yeah.

And

I think we, we have options for people to join virtually.

Even a group that's mostly in person, they can join virtually and just know

that, you know, obviously it's gonna be a little bit of a different dynamic, but

we have the, the tech to make that work.

Yes.

That's how I run my neurodivergent group.

Mm-hmm.

Unmask.

So if you are.

18 euros and older and are a neurodivergent adult.

That's my processing group.

We have a big hoot and holler and a neuro spicy time up in there.

Um, and that's been really amazing just to connect with 'em, with

neurodivergent adults around here and seeing their group cohesion.

So really have loved that group.

Um, we also have Coming Home to Yourself, which is our Women's Plus group, so anyone

that's fem identifying, um, can join the women's group again with kind of coming

home to yourself and unmasked, we kind of blend, like having some material,

having like coping skills, learning something, a topic and then again focusing

on the processing relational aspect.

So bring in your stuff, inquire with your folks.

Yeah, get some feedback.

So those groups are really

great.

And I have to say, 'cause I don't even think you know this inside

lingo that has surfaced recently that it's been called Chatty.

Chatty, right?

CHTY, coming home to yourself, chatty.

Oh my god.

Chatty.

I know, right?

Wait, how fun.

Fun.

I'm like, can we never not say the same thing?

We're just girls.

And then of course, oh, but not, of course we are currently enrolling, right?

And trying to enroll starting, starting soon.

But if even if you're not joined by, then you can join later.

Still join our tearing down the walls men's processing group.

Um, hey everyone.

We're thinking about the male loneliness epidemic.

So if you are a man, someone identifying as a man, please inquire if you're

interested in that group or know a man in your life that would benefit

from a safe, vulnerable place led by our wonderful Sam d Martino.

Yes.

Resident Soft boy.

And

obviously if you're not in Nashville or Tennessee, like check your own community.

Yeah.

And we love matchmaking.

So if you're like, Hey, I'm in Detroit and I'm trying to find a group, like,

we'll help you, we'll, we'll be on it.

Yes.

Buffer real.

Group therapy may not be for everyone or at all times, but for

a lot of people it is where deep relational healing can happen.

Um, you don't have to be perfectly articulate, ready to present.

You don't have to feel like totally ready, emotionally just have to show up.

Yeah, be yourself.

Open yourself, you know, take your, your own pace with that and be,

be open to the process of sharing, sitting in the silence, sitting with.

You know, fellow human beings.

And it is so, so beautiful, so highly recommend.

And now our musical segment.

Now, that's what I call where Emerson and I each share a song with each

other each week as representatives of our respective generations.

We tell you a little bit about the song or artist and then we press pause, we

share the song with each other, and then we come back for our live reaction

and we're capturing it all on a Spotify playlist linked in the show notes for

you.

So for this week, and I had this moment of deja vu 'cause I was like.

Were we together where an Atomic Kitten song was playing and

I was like, this is Atomic.

Was that you?

I don't recall.

Okay.

So it might not have, but it might have been another millennial.

She's not so good.

Yeah, we're not here.

So my song this week is Whole Again by Atomic Kitten.

Have you ever heard of them?

I feel like I have, but why have I not delved into it more?

That song?

Okay, wait, but I'm holding on.

Yeah, they like, no, that's like, but I know it's probably not the car.

That's their song.

But in my mind that's their song.

Now I Need

To Wait.

That's Blondie, right?

Blondie.

I'm pretty sure Blondie did that originally.

I know.

That is so funny.

That's an Atomic kitten

song.

I'm like, my God, that's so Me being born in 1999.

So Atomic Kitten is an English girl group formed in 98 from Liverpool.

They're made up of Jenny Frost, Liz McClarin, and Natasha Hamilton.

This song is from their debut album right now, which dropped in 2000.

Wow.

Whole again is the group's biggest selling single to date and sold

over a million copies in the UK and was the 13th best selling single

of the two thousands in Britain.

Okay,

so you're bringing a millennial tune.

Um, yeah.

But this is so nostalgic for me from the uk.

Yes.

So home territory.

Okay.

Okay.

Listeners, you have to watch the video.

You should go watch the music video for that.

It sells it.

It totally sells it.

The Y 2K fashion is giving honey,

the low RISE's, giving something.

Jeans are giving crap.

It's giving, don't try to bend over.

The eyebrows are getting skinny and pale.

It's getting a little white eyeliner.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

We were in there.

Oh my God.

That was my blueprint for womanhood.

Y'all.

Okay.

Well, it's, things

are making sense.

I mean, I agree.

What's your song?

Okay.

My tune.

Prepare yourself.

Oh, shit.

For deep emotions.

Okay.

Because.

Celine and Babs, Ms. Barbara Streisand, Babs, Ms. Barbara

Streisand and Celine Dion.

What exactly recorded this tune for their respective 1997 albums?

Love that.

Let's just put it on both.

Right.

Um, I just wanted to share this little snippet from a review from,

uh, all music's Matthew Greenwald, who said at the time, their voices

blend together extremely well on this song with both singers trading off

and joining together with a wonderful reassurance musically, the song is

dominated by what is unfortunately a somewhat bombastic arrangement.

Love that word.

Right?

This tends to get in the way of a very pretty melody.

The overall arrangement seems to come out of the 1980s School of

Overproduction, and it is a bit cloying.

However, the vocalists take the song to a higher place with their

performance, and the song and recording have aged fairly well despite this.

Oh, I'm so fucking excited for this.

Okay, so picture set the scene.

Me with my little Iowa karaoke machine, do dual tape deck so I can record on one tape

and then duet to myself on the other tape.

Oh my God.

So I would duet with this, my, myself.

Well, of course.

But I also had like a couple of friends who we, we learned the song by heart.

So we had our two microphones plugged in and we are dueting this and it.

I mean, I could, I could cry right now.

Not chill.

Just thinking how powerful like.

So I've been walking around my house since yesterday.

I'm scared,

so afraid to show.

Um, I'm like, so

who's, who's Celine and who's Babs to be continued.

Oh my God.

So, uh, enjoy this song.

I'm excited.

I just fucking ascended the power of fabs.

I'm going, oh, I know.

I'm moved.

We were acting a fool up in here.

If anyone's in session.

I'm not sorry.

I'm sorry.

Like, you can bill us extra.

Like, I'm so like, what do you mean first off?

Yeah, divas beautiful.

Yes.

Why are they so beautiful?

Just phenomenal.

I'm like, wait a fucking minute.

And then we were just geeking because we were like, wait, the music video is just

them recording through and yes, deeply.

Oh, just why would a man be there?

He wouldn't.

No.

No.

So that's another video We fear.

You have to go and watch for first.

The videos today really just took us.

Wow.

Yes.

And now for our last segment of the show, welcome to Fire Dumpster Phoenix.

It is rough out there y'all.

And we need all the hope we can get.

It's time to go dumpster diving for some positive news and rise from the

leftover Happy Meal ashes together.

Yeah.

What you got so young people are, are joining offline clubs to get back to

having real personal interactions.

So enter the offline club.

This is a Dutch social movement space looking to cultivate public spaces.

To revive the times before we buried ourselves in our phones.

They host events based around cultivating social interaction through conversations,

books, board games, et cetera.

And even host digital detox retreats if you wanna go that far.

Mm-hmm.

Club chapters are popping up all over major cities in Europe.

I remember looking at the Instagram post, uh, of someone, but they had set up in a

train station, so like, if you're waiting for your train, someone could just go in

there and like chat if they wanted to.

Um, the brand is encouraging anyone to start a club by registering

themselves as a business entity and they will provide you with training

branded materials, all of the things.

So there was like stats in the, in the article about like British teen,

I think it was a survey of British teenagers, but how they're like basically

wishing that they had social media curfews and they wanna be spending

less time on their phones and wanting to be having more of these spaces.

And I can see boomers looking at this and being like, Ugh.

Now we have to create a whole thing about people talking to each other.

Yeah.

Yes, correct.

Yes.

Lead paint like death starers.

Yes, we do.

Because people are not talking to one another and I just

think,

you know, it's kind of cute and kitch, so I love it.

I would be so excited.

And like also of course Europe, they're on it.

I know.

They're like, Hey guys, we gotta like play board games and Kiki at the train station.

Yeah.

So I don't know how that would work for us.

We individualized American folk, but I have hope.

Yeah, I do.

Maybe someday,

somewhere.

Yeah.

I'm like, shut out young people.

We're trying.

Yes, we're trying.

Oh, and thank God for it.

I know it.

What's your news?

Well, not me.

This morning at the kitchen table with my mom and stepdad who got in

town last night going, y'all need to tell me some good news because I

ain't got shit for the pod quickly.

So, um, they recently went to the first ever conference for a new.

Association called The Alliance for Texas History.

Okay.

Uh, why is this new organization needed?

You might ask.

Well, because the MAGA people are threatening and suing people left

and right to remove actual history.

Right.

From classrooms, from textbooks.

Wow.

And rewrite this even more whitewashed bullshit.

So some of these small dick energy, very small dick energy.

So some of these historians are like, yeah, no, we're not gonna take it.

We're not gonna take it.

Gonna take, and they're like, we're gonna thank you.

I don't know who it is, but we're gonna start our new organization.

So the former chair of the Texas State Historical Association, which is sort

of bending over, shall we say, um, his name, I'm not gonna say it right,

Walter Bunger, but he was actually, so my stepdad is a historian and former

history professor at Texas a m University.

So he was, this guy was on, um, my stepdad, Phil's doctoral committee

before leaving Texas a and m to be UT's big time Texas historian.

So he was one of the co-founders of this new alliance for Texas history.

Um, and he said, who would've thought a history professor

would need liability insurance?

Yeah.

In this day and age, apparently to speak truth.

You do.

Right.

What?

And my stepdad was saying this morning that the best part of the conference was.

In this general session, the speaker asked because there were, there

have been four historians who have been sued recently by some of these

MAGA people for speaking truth.

So historians getting sued.

Okay.

Um, so they asked them to stand up and they got a standing ovation.

Mm. Like there is hope people, if, if Texas can do it, if Texas can keep

the truth alive, well sure we all can.

Wait.

That's exciting.

Yeah.

It's kind of like, all right, let's, let's go talk.

We can, this,

this.

Yes.

Yeah.

Alright, listeners, that's all we got for you today.

Go like, stomp on some tiny dicks, I dunno.

And like, preserve history and like, listen to Babs and Celine and just know

that you're a girl if you're a girl.

And

enjoy

some kombucha.

Yes.

And verb.

Okay.

Bye Bye.

This has been another episode of But For Real, produced by Valerie Martin and

Emerson writer and edited by Sean Conlin.

But for real is the Gaia Center production.

The Gaia Center offers individual couples and group therapy for clients

across Tennessee and in person in our Nashville office, as well as

coaching for clients worldwide.

For show notes or to learn more about our work, visit gaia center.co

or find us on Instagram at the Gaia Center and at, but for Real Pod,

but for Real is intended for education and entertainment and is not a

substitute for mental health treatment.

Also, since we host this podcast primarily as humans rather than clinicians, we

are not shy here about sharing our opinions on everything from snacks and

movies to politicians and social issues.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode.

See you next time.

Bestie.