Welcome to episode number four of Beyond Barriers, Navigating Health and Function, developed and produced by the Society of Alberta Occupational Therapists.

I am your host, Pam Hung, and we are talking to occupational therapists that work with clients in different practice areas.

To learn more about the many ways OTs promote engagement and participation in everyday life activities, today we will be speaking with Camille Bailey, an occupational therapist working in pediatric private practice from Parkland County, Alberta.

Camille is an entrepreneur, teacher, and the lead occupational therapist and owner of Sensory Solutions Occupational Therapy Incorporated, a multi practitioner pediatric OT service provider based out of the Greater Edmonton Area.

Today, we will dive into what brought her to this area of OT practice, how she and her team support clients and families in being able to participate in everyday life activities, and how OTs are unique health professionals in the area of pediatric rehabilitation.

Let's get started.

All right, welcome Camille.

Thank you so much for being here today.

Thanks so much for having me.

I'm honoured to be here.

I first just want to acknowledge that I'm joining virtually from Treaty 6 territory today, the traditional and ancestral territory of many Indigenous people, including the Cree, Blackfoot, Métis, Nakota Sioux, Dene, Saulteaux, and many others.

Thank you so much Camille.

Yeah, I really appreciate that, that land acknowledgement.

can you tell us a bit about your work as a pediatric occupational therapist and what drew you to work in this area?

Yeah, absolutely.

so I grew up in a small town in rural northwestern Alberta.

I always knew I loved children.

I coached hockey throughout high school.

so I pursued an education degree because I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do.

I wanted a practical undergraduate degree because, I wanted somebody to fall back on, just in case I, didn't find my path into a master's program.

So throughout my undergrad, I began working as an in home aid for a family with an autistic boy and I gained more exposure to various rehab disciplines.

And I was really drawn to OT due to the range of different things that we were working on and supporting with.

So things like community outings and transitions and expanding his food repertoire and growing up in a small town, I had never heard of this thing called occupational therapy.

We didn't really, You know, um, even in elementary school, I didn't see OTs in the schools and, it was kind of elusive to me.

So, I really, grew fond of it and I applied to OT school and was fortunate enough to be accepted.

I've worked in homes, schools, clinics, other community settings, with children throughout the entirety of my career to date.

I eventually ventured out on my own The work quickly outgrew what I was able to handle on my own.

so I began building our team from there and the rest is kind of history.

Yeah, that's great.

I love how you kind of talked about how your life has been guided by working with kids in different capacities.

that's awesome.

And even just how lots of occupational therapists sometimes tend to, start out with one idea for a career and then they find OT and that's what is such a good fit.

And that's great.

That's kind of how it worked for me too.

So that's awesome.

so in your, day to day work or in your team's day to day work, what types of challenges do your clients face?

Yeah.

So we really strive to employ a neurodiversity affirming practice.

Really embracing that neurodiversity is natural and we should celebrate those differences.

try to move away from that medical model where the deficit is located within the individual and that individual requires fixing.

this isn't always easy given the systems that we work within.

and it's not easy for us as practitioners either and we're by no means perfect and are very much a work in progress with this because it's a lot to grapple with There's small little tweaks you can make, to things that you're doing every day And the small things become the big things.

So, for instance, we work with a number of children with sensory regulation difficulties.

So, instead of trying to change the child, we might be looking at adapting that environment.

So if it's auditory or visual inputs to sounds or, visual clutter, that's really overwhelming for them.

We might be looking at trying to adjust that, modifying or breaking down the task so that it's, decreasing the demands and meeting the child where they're at, or working with the adults in their lives to help kind of reframe the expectations, making sure that child can be comfortable and successful with what they're doing, because ultimately that'll help just support everyone to lead a better life and, Be more engaged and,

Feel more supportive.

Mm hmm.

Yeah.

And really working towards people's strengths.

I'm just curious if you could tell me a bit about sort of what neurodivergence means.

I'm just asking, given that maybe some of our listeners haven't necessarily heard that term before.

Absolutely.

So essentially it's an all encompassing term that, Is meant to focus on embracing, all differences there's no typical or difference.

just everything is meant to be celebrated and, everyone belongs and, you know, there's not one way things should be done.

So really we need to accommodate and find ways to support those people where they're, where they're at, not focus on changing them to kind of, so it really has been a big shift and, yeah, neurodiversity affirming practice and that movement has really taken hold within the last few years.

I would say, particularly the last 5 years, we've seen things change.

Even things like, a lot of like social skills training and things like that have really come under fire.

Curriculums have been, changed and revised, for the better, just because, yeah, we want to focus on understanding and embracing everyone for who they are, not trying to, force them to fit into a.

Because, yeah, the world is an interesting place these days.

And I think, you know, society in general would benefit from being kinder, more accepting and more understanding.

Yeah, for sure.

And I feel like, differences, like you say, are kind of something to be celebrated, right?

we're all different.

So, using that strength based lens really lends to that, for sure.

What are some things that you or your team might do that, help people to sort of either sort of embrace their unique characteristics or help kind of support those environments so that people can do the things that they want to do?

Yeah.

So, for instance, if we had, a student or a child we were working with who, you know, With having, it's tricky for them to arrive at school, for instance, we might, work with the educational team and parents to look at adjusting, their transition or arrival time.

So, maybe having them come in or arrive a little bit earlier, a little bit later, just to kind of avoid that hustle and bustle in the hallway if that, sensory input is really challenging for them we might even look at like a different route in the hallway.

Just if maybe it's the boot room that's really, really congested and difficult to navigate.

we do a lot of work with adults, in the children's lives, supporting like how to co regulate, supporting those children, because, You know, the adults in their lives, if adults are dysregulated, chances are children are dysregulated.

So, you might be looking at visual supports to help them know what to expect and help them be a little bit more, organized that way, or social stories.

but I think most importantly, and in alignment with your diversity affirming practice, we would be, wanting to engage in presuming competence and wanting to engage in some collaborative problem solving with the child themselves, just to see what they feel might be helpful in terms of tools and strategies and supports.

So, yeah, that's a big one too.

Really making sure that they feel heard and that we can trial things that they They feel like may help them.

they have that self agency, control over their situation and that they're validated for things that are, you know, it legitimately might, Be painful.

It might hurt, right?

And for so many years, they've been told, you know, that doesn't hurt.

That, yeah, that's fine.

Get over it.

You'll grow out of it.

But we know that's not the case.

Yeah.

And so when you're working with people, Parents and, you know, caregivers or teachers.

What does that look like?

Is that usually, you know, even in collaboration with the kids or do you work with them separately?

What does that kind of look like for you and your team?

yeah, it really runs the gamut depending on the setting we're in.

So we're, we are blessed to work in a number of different settings, whether it's in home, health centers.

schools.

So we really follow their lead just to see what they would like support with.

Sometimes we're modeling.

Sometimes we're doing parent coaching and troubleshooting.

Yeah, it really, it really depends.

But at the center, we're trying to, to kind of engage with them to, to support them to, support their children.

So, yeah, whatever we can do to, to help them understand.

And we've had, um, some families.

It's been really, really lovely to see the, the understanding shift because, Yeah, we've worked with some where they just interpret everything as behavior, right?

Because that's the observable kind of sign on the outside.

And it's that dysregulation and, come to understand those kind of sensory processing difficulties and, how that can kind of manifest.

And it's been so rewarding to see, one of the OTs has had families engage with other families in the community and help, share their experience and their story, and just have that kind of, shared experience over some of the, things that they're working on with their child.

And, you don't feel so alone that way, right?

They kind of have, an ear to lend an ear in terms of support.

And yeah, it's been really lovely and really rewarding.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

And even just building that peer support piece, for families around that, you know, mutual support, with people that might have similar experiences too.

Yeah, that's awesome.

And I mean, it really sounds like it's.

It's really based on, what the goals of the child are, right?

what kinds of things are they experiencing and what needs some extra support or what needs some extra education or that sort of thing that really makes it depend on who is involved

Yeah.

Yeah.

it's a bit of a wild adventure at times but that's something that makes it so exciting is you never know what, You're going to be supporting and every day it's different.

So that's what is so lovely about it.

like we've had children, I recall, um, an instance, we had a boy who really enjoyed, autistic boy, who really enjoyed visual input.

So in a classroom setting, he was, throwing items in the air and he really liked to, he also really Had an affinity for numbers and, understandably really tricky for the classroom staff to navigate that.

But we were able to kind of brainstorm like, okay, how can we kind of shape this and channel his interest and presume confidence Yeah, we were able to link it to math and estimation and, um, even like some science and, and materials and, um, aerodynamics and yeah, they, you know, it took a little bit of convincing on the staff's part to see, you know, they were like, you want us to do what?

But, you know, instead of engaging in what may have been like a power struggle of you can't throw, stop doing that, It was able to kind of capitalize on and harness his interests and also, weave in some educational concepts.

So,

hmm.

Yeah.

And kind of.

Yeah, connected to the classroom and hopefully the learning outcomes, I guess, right?

so, I mean, that's kind of one example of how, OTs and Peds really contribute to, health, well being, engagement and meaningful activity.

Are there, any other sort of examples of what that looks like?

yeah, I mean, so much of what we do focuses on meaningful participation.

And we know when children are comfortable and engaged in activities that are important to them, that their well being will be positively impacted.

So, Again, I think that's the lovely thing about OT is that we're really, focusing on what's important to, to individuals.

Uh, so we've worked on a range of different things.

outings various community events that previously wouldn't have been possible for families due to the, sensory nature and the busyness of everything that's going on.

So just, you know, talking through, okay, how can we support this?

What does arrival time look like?

What kind of Sensory tools and, and strategies.

Can we bring in a backpack?

What can we do in terms of breaks and having like a designated area to go, like planning ahead and kind of strategizing with them in advance?

Yeah, and I mean, it speaks to part of that, creativity aspect of occupational therapy, but I mean, also, probably supports not only the, child's health and well being, but also, the whole family, especially when you talk about community activities and, how people can be better supported that way.

That's awesome.

so working in private practice, Do you collaborate with other healthcare professionals?

Do you have other healthcare professionals besides OTs on your team?

What does that kind of look like in the private practice pediatrics world?

Yeah.

So we are fortunate to have, an OT assistant as well as an SLP directly on our team who we work in partnership with.

And then we also, work in collaboration with.

Speech language pathologists, physical therapists, and psychologists most, commonly, we're fortunate to work in many diverse settings such as schools, homes, daycares, preschools, health centres, so in those settings, we encounter all of those other allied health professions as well and are able to, work closely alongside them as well.

So how do you see, um, I mean, you mentioned a couple of other, you know, rehabilitation professionals, uh, physiotherapists and speech language pathologists, but how do you see the role of OT as being different from those health professions?

I know sometimes there's, um, I mean, as myself at OT, there's lots of overlap.

So how do we, how do you kind of differentiate that in the pediatrics?

Yeah, certainly.

I really do feel it's the emphasis on relationship.

I come back to this time and time again.

I always say, you know, I could teach someone a skill, like something that's very technical, a skill, like how to do a, for example, you know, how to score a sensory profile, but I can't teach someone to have, you know, to be a empathetic listener, to know, To, sit down on the floor when you're talking with someone to, you know, make sure that your positionality is, you've critically examined that and you are looking at that power and balance and you've got that.

So, I mean, I could tell someone, But I feel like I shouldn't have to.

I feel like those should be innate characteristics.

I really do look for that when I am building, you know, our team and adding people to our team.

Um, and the other piece I would say is just the holistic nature of the profession.

So I can say, sometimes that's a blessing and a curse.

the breadth, it's wonderful, but, there's a whole lot of areas, but sometimes This, scope piece can be a little bit tricky, and then there's overlap with other professions.

I think the breadth of OT makes it so tricky to like kind of explain it in 30 seconds or less kind of thing, right?

That's always the part that I think a lot of OT struggle with is, Ooh, how do you talk about what you do in your job?

Right?

And it's always like, Oh, but there's so many things.

So no matter what, population that you're working with.

so I guess given that, what are some challenge that.

Challenges that you faced as an OT working in this area.

And those may be, you know, challenges working, with pediatric population, could be challenges kind of working in private practice, whatever, whatever you'd like to speak to.

Well aside from the pandemic

Yes, there is that.

we'll leave that one there.

probably just navigating like the ebbs and flows of funding and associated service provision as mandates have kind of shifted over time, has been around long enough to kind of see things, the pendulum swing back and forth with things.

So for example, like, We work in collaboration with schools, some of which are Alberta education funded, so, like the changes to program unit funding that happened several years ago, you know, we used to have a pretty prominent role as OTs in terms of qualifying children for OTs.

And now, not so much.

So, well, of course, we still support those students, in terms of, services, the, the qualification piece has changed quite significantly and sometimes, I think there might be a bit of a misconception that If we don't have a role in terms of assessment, then maybe the services aren't necessary, unfortunately.

So, yeah, that that would be probably navigating some of those shifts.

Yeah, and I mean, it can be challenging when things are shifting and programs shift too, and sort of how can you either kind of fill that gap or, make adjustments so that, you can kind of work within the parameters that you have at the time, but also still providing services to people.

Um, yeah, it must be, must be challenging.

Um, so when you think about sort of, I don't know, some of the challenges about.

Being an OT or working with other healthcare professionals or practitioners, is there anything that you wish other healthcare practitioners knew about OT?

Honestly, I think probably the scope and breadth of OT, ironically, like, for example, our role in mental health, A few team members and I attended a conference in the spring and it was primarily put on by psychologists.

And it was so funny.

We were the only OTs in the room, but all of the content was so incredibly applicable to what we do.

And it felt like every two seconds we were turning to each other and being like, this is so OT, this is so, this is so us, this is like, just, yeah, just resonated so much.

again, blessing and a curse, right?

Because then you get into, well, more than one person can do it.

And then how do you, how do you decide to do it?

how do you collaborate without duplicating services and such?

So those things are tricky to tease apart, but I think with some strategic collaboration and, if you advocate accordingly, you can carve out your own path.

and really, work in tandem with psychologists.

yeah, and I think you kind of highlighted something that's come up in a couple of other interviews that were, you know, about working with different populations where there is some overlap and how do you negotiate that role within the, That specific program because the roles might look different in a different program depending on, you know, how that's structured and kind of working through that as a team is really important.

I think it helps foster collaboration so that you can, use the strengths of everybody to, Support clients in the best way.

but yeah, it's true.

I've definitely been the OT in the room sometimes.

It's, it's kind of a, it's a really cool place to be, but it's also feels a little awkward,

Yeah,

but it's, yeah, it's neat to kind of recognize how, you know, the breadth and depth of, of our role for sure.

yeah.

And we felt like we were on an island a little bit, but you know, and then sometimes people get a little bit territorial, right?

But you know, I think at the end of the day, we get snippets in school of all these different areas, right?

And then the onus is on individual practitioners to pursue that advanced training, commit to being lifelong learners.

And if you're, if you're approaching those collaborative conversations with, you know, in an appropriate manner, they're, yeah.

and often, like, we had some really cool conversations about, like, with psychologists about some of these things and they were, they were like, wow, OTs can do that.

And the other piece is that.

With some of the discussion about, the diagnostic piece, from ACOT, that will also be interesting.

it's interesting and I've definitely been on teams where maybe I was.

the only OT and the other professionals saw OT in a different way in acute care, for example.

And then when, I was talking about my role and they were like, wow, this is way bigger than I thought.

Like, and then, you know, it, it really changes the conversation.

So yeah, that's, totally about how you approach it.

yeah, you can do that, or like, yes,

Yeah.

They're like, that's great.

We can figure this out.

we have a common language, right?

So,

Yeah, exactly.

so in private practice, how do you typically get referrals?

I know you mentioned, you work in all different areas of the community, whether that's, schools and the clinic.

how does your team usually, have kids refer to you?

a variety of ways.

at the end of the day, we're a really well connected, like, heart centered business that cares really deeply about the work that we do.

So, um, yeah, word of mouth has, has really worked really well for us,

are there things that maybe other healthcare professionals could watch for, if they're thinking about, whether to involve OT in a child or family's kind of care team?

I would just say like, is day to day functioning or ability to engage in meaningful occupations impacted?

So, you know, maybe it's tricky to get dressed because seams in the socks are bothering them or, you know, soccer is challenging because, a child becomes upset when other children don't pass them the ball or their team loses or, you know, there's those kinds of things to navigate.

So, really comes down to.

What's the big picture?

is it really causing, is it really functionally impacting day to day?

And that's why I always come back to, like, does this need to be worked on, especially with, some of the neurodiversity affirming approaches, right?

Like, I think years ago, we were maybe a little bit.

critical about like nitpicking every tiny little thing, even something as simple as pencil grasp, like if it wasn't perfect, we would want to fix it.

But now, like, if the child has a functional grasp, they're not fatiguing, their writing is legible, we leave it.

So yeah, so we're slowly starting to come around, but.

Yeah, we got a ways to go.

Yeah, for sure.

do most of your, kids that are referred to, do they typically like already have a diagnosis from like either, you know, a psychologist or medical practitioner?

Or do you see kind of a variety of kiddos?

yeah, because we, we also see within the schools, we certainly have, um, support a fair share of children who would have diagnoses and, and, but other ones may, you know, may not be diagnosed yet or, may just be needing some support in other ways.

could you share an example if you have one of, you know, either yourself or a team member when your contributions to their care led to improvements in their, in their quality of life, daily functioning, day to day activities, those sorts of things.

yeah, I supported a family, um, they had a son who had quite a number of sensory sensitivities that resulted in some dysregulation.

And, um, their family goal was to go on a family vacation on a plane because to date they had been limited to just traveling by car.

So this is a pretty big goal.

So had to break it down a little bit.

So what are the kind of prerequisite things you need to be able to do to navigate an airport and a plane.

So, in a really play based manner, we worked on things like, you know, standing in a line, waiting, um, tolerating those, that visual auditory and vestibular input associated with flying, coping with unexpected changes, as we know, a lot of those at the airport these days.

Um, and he made a ton of progress, which was Really, really awesome.

a few months later, they sent me a picture and they're all on a plane together.

So it was really, really awesome and really fulfilling.

Yeah, I love that.

Thank you so much for sharing.

Um, yeah, that's, I think that's something, you know, a lot of like people can relate to, right?

It's Yeah, it's always something that, I mean, as a parent myself, getting on a plane is a bit, you know, a little bit anxiety inducing as it is, but, you know, for a kiddo that's got, you know, other, um, challenges around, like, Uh, sensory processing, that's like a whole different level, right?

And how to navigate all of that as a family, plus all the regular traveling stuff is, it's a lot.

So, um, yeah, and it's amazing that you could, you know, you saw the outcome when they sent you a picture at the end.

Oh, that's wonderful.

Um, so we're kind of starting to wrap up last few questions.

Um, what is one thing that you think everyone should know about OT?

think everyone should know that we have some brilliant, absolutely brilliant Indigenous OTs in Canada.

So Angie Phoenix, Karina Valvera, and they've really been carrying the load in terms of the, like, the reconciliatory path forward within OT in Canada.

And we all just really need to step up and do our part as settler OTs.

So the Truth, Reconciliation, Indigenous Health, and Occupational Therapy page on the CAOT website has some really great resources to access as a starting point.

Yeah, that's wonderful.

I, yeah, I, I think that's really important to acknowledge because there's so many different approaches and, you know, the people that you identified, you know, are really.

Helping to kind of amplify sort of how, um, indigenous approaches can, you know, really our practice too.

But as you say, it's definitely a work in progress and lots to do, but there's lots of really great resources available.

So, yeah, that's great.

So just my last question, There's, I mean, I imagine there might be some people listening to this podcast that maybe are interested in going into OT.

you know, maybe they're in education like where you started out, um, and kind of looking for that next step.

Um, but if someone was looking, um, looking to be in OT or apply to OT school, what qualities or skills do you think are important for them to have?

I would say critical self reflection slash humility and lifelong learning

yeah, that's wonderful.

I really appreciate you being here with us, Camille.

Thank you so much for spending time with us today, sharing all your experiences from, you know, you and your team's perspective.

you've provided us with great insights about how OTs promote participation and meaningful activities for kids and their families.

And so thank you so much again for being here with us today.

And this will wrap up episode four of Beyond Barriers.

Thanks, Camille.

Great, thank you so much.

This is a podcast produced and developed by the Society for Alberta Occupational Therapists.

Our podcast is hosted by occupational therapists and is intended to educate and get listeners excited about all the different ways that OTs support health and well being for people at all stages of life.

If you enjoyed this episode, Feel free to subscribe and follow Beyond Barriers, Navigating Health and Function on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks for listening.