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 Welcome to the VPLR podcast, the show

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 where we bring you actionable health

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 advice from leading minds.

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 I'm your host Rob.

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 My guest today is Morley Robbins, creator

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 of the Root Course Protocol, founder of

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 the Magnesium Advocacy Group, and a

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 leading educator in the interplay of

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 minerals like copper, iron,

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 and magnesium in human health.

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 Morley's work challenges conventional

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 views on iron deficiency and pushes us to

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 understand mineral balance as central to

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 energy production, immune

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 function, and chronic disease.

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 Expect to learn why copper and

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 ceruloplasmin are essential

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 regulators of iron metabolism,

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 how mineral imbalances can drive fatigue,

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 oxidative stress, and dysfunctional

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 hormonal health, and practical strategies

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 to better understand and manage copper

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 and iron balance in

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 your own health journey.

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 Now, on to the

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 conversation with Morley Robbins.

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 Good morning Morley, and

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 thanks for being here today.

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 This one's been a long time coming, and

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 I'm glad we found time to finally dig

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 into everything copper and iron today.

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 Now, I was fortunate enough to have a

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 chance to listen to you

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 lecture in London a few months ago.

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 It was an amazing experience, and I

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 learned a lot especially about copper as

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 it pertains to sort

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 of post viral fatigues.

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 Of course, I don't want to get ahead of

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 myself, and I know that today's

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 conversation will be aimed maybe more at

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 the basics, and then hopefully we can get

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 together at a later date and dig into

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 sort of more specific topics.

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 Anyway, before we start, would you mind

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 introducing yourself to those in the

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 audience who maybe aren't familiar with

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 you and your body of work?

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 Sure.

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 Well, thank you for the opportunity, and

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 it's great to meet you, and look forward

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 to our discussion now,

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 and maybe going forward.

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 I'm Morley Robbins.

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 I may affectionately refer to

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 myself as a pre-med retread.

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 I had designs of going to medical school,

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 and a very good friend of mine, Ben

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 Edwards, who's a physician in Texas,

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 said, "It's a blessing you

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 didn't go to medical school."

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 I said, "Why is that?"

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 He said, "Because you

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 didn't get indoctrinated."

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 That's allowed me to ask different

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 questions of the research, of the

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 literature that's out there, and it's

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 been a fascinating experience on the

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 heels of 32 years of working in hospitals

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 and hospital consulting firms to then

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 step out of that role and become a

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 self-taught mineral expert.

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 I don't have the good housekeeping seal

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 of approval of any particular program.

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 I've just relied on the literature,

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 and the good fortune of passion and

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 drive, and the staying power of over

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 10,000 articles now,

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 I've learned a thing or two.

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 I wouldn't say that I have total recall

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 of 10,000 articles, but

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 I have a lot of recall.

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 One of my gifts as a consultant was

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 pattern recognition.

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 I was able to take data and extrapolate

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 it, take information and massage it and

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 synthesize, what is

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 this really telling us?

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 I've done that over the course of the

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 last 16 years and have assembled a very

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 unique perspective of how

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 does the body really work.

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 You have two largely competing paradigms.

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 There's attack the guest

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 and strengthen the host.

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 Attack the guest is the more

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 conventional, let's throw a chemistry at

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 it, let's throw a drug at it, try to kill

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 that pathogen or that

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 toxin or whatever it might be.

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 But when you look into the millennia old

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 healing traditions, most of them are

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 based on what can we do

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 to strengthen the host.

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 That's really what I think is from that

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 philosophy that the root cause protocol

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 flows out of let's make sure we have the

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 right nutrients in our diet and in our

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 supplement routine to allow the body to

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 express its original intent.

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 Go back to original factory settings and

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 allow the body to express the energy.

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 We can have a stasis.

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 Yeah, to get

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 homeostasis, that's exactly right.

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 And so we ignore the

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 enemies and we ignite the energy.

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 It's a very different way of thinking

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 about it and I think it's refreshing but

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 it's also empowering.

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 Individuals realize I can do this and

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 that's really the driver from the get-go

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 has been how do we democratize healing?

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 How do we put the individual back in the

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 driver's seat and draw on practitioners

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 as a resource but not

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 necessarily as the be all and end all?

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 So it's been a fascinating

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 journey over the last 16 years.

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 Yeah, I've listened to podcasts and I've

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 obviously gone through your books and I

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 can attest just the way you think through

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 problems and it's just a delight to see

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 that how you sort of, how do I say it,

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 sort of restructured the paradigm.

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 I mean, we're talking about that a second

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 ago off air and I think you've just

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 created a whole new narrative or again

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 paradigm to start thinking

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 through these sorts of problems.

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 And yeah,

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 when you were speaking,

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 the two terms just sort of came to head

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 or came to top of mind or one I suppose

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 and that is a sort of idea

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 of terrain and germ theory.

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 I was about to say, do you sort of

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 subscribe to that model?

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 It's a little off track and maybe not

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 quite the question I was

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 going to start with but

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 do you feel that there is an aspect or

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 element of correctness to that?

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 Oh, absolutely.

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 I think it's a foundational philosophical

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 divide and what you've got, we're going

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 back to the debates between Béchamp and

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 Pasteur and for those who don't know,

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 Pasteur's PhD was a correspondence course

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 in pharmacology and Béchamp was the most

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 decorated scientist in Europe.

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 He had an MD and two PhDs, many, many

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 awards and of course Béchamp was taking

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 the position of the terrain theory and

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 Pasteur was focusing on the particle, the

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 pathogen and that's where the moneyed

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 interest was on the pathogen.

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 But I think the part that I think is a

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 nuance of Béchamp around the terrain

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 theory is he wasn't talking about,

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 sometimes it's referred to as the field,

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 he was talking about the energetic field.

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 And I think he didn't say it that way but

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 as I've studied his work and studied the

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 debates, I think that's where we have

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 this conflict of if you put an electron

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 microscope on a pathogen and you ignore

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 the energetic field that it's finding

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 itself, then you don't

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 understand the problem.

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 And the pathogen is a reflection of

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 what's the state of energy in this tissue

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 and the fact that the pathogen can morph

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 from bacteria to virus

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 to fungus to parasites.

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 It's like that's mind-blowing to think

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 about but it does as the pH changes and

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 it's just and what so the

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 thing is what does pH stand for?

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 What's potential for hydrogen?

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 Well actually it's potential for oxygen

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 and the really critical

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 issue is when oxygen is available

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 and it can be activated by copper, you

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 make energy and the peak of energy

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 production is at the pH of 7 because

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 that's when O2 is most

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 available for activation.

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 But if you have,

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 if the pH starts to drop or rise,

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 the energy yield drops off and that's

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 when the pathogens wake up.

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 So I think the that whole concept is a

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 critical foundation for understanding

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 where is all this unrest in our body

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 coming from, this lack of homeostasis,

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 it's lack of energy and we're

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 yeah to me it's that simple.

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 Yeah and thank you for setting that up.

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 That was the perfect segue into my next

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 question really which is to sort of

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 really sort of maybe take a deeper dive

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 into why you think we are facing such a

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 high prevalence of chronic

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 disease in society today.

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 Now I believe your core thesis is that

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 disease stems from oxidative distress due

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 to mitochondrial dysfunction

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 caused by mineral imbalances.

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 I think anyway I could be off the mark.

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 Could you explain this a little more?

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 We've got a pretty savvy audience so the

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 details are good-ish just as long as we

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 don't start talking about sort of ion

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 channel polarizational anything like that

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 that up until that

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 point I think we're golden.

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 Yeah no I think it's the catch phrase is

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 mitochondrial dysfunction.

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 Okay that's like saying okay we're on

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 planet earth now and we want to we want

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 to climb a mountain.

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 Well we got to get a little more specific

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 about where we're headed and the reason

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 why we're on this

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 planet is because of copper.

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 It's not complicated.

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 Prior to copper's ascension,

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 prior to the great oxygen event, the

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 world was dominated by iron and sulfur.

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 And cyanobacteria began to engage in

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 photosynthesis with this

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 bright shiny object in the sky.

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 Why that started I don't think anyone's

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 really been able to identify the origin

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 of that but when that took place oxygen

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 began to be given off by those organisms.

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 It went into the primordial sea and then

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 when the seedbed filled up it would pop

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 into the atmosphere.

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 Now we exist right now with about what is

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 it 21 oxygen in the air.

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 It's fluctuated over the billions of

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 years but it's now we're

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 hovering around 21 percent.

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 But when the great oxygen event took

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 place allegedly 3.4 billion years ago I'm

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 always amazed at the astrobiologists and

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 their precision for

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 identifying these dates.

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 But when that happened when there was one

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 tenth of one percent of oxygen in the air

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 it wiped out 99.9 percent of life on the

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 planet because it was all anaerobic.

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 Oxygen it's a very reactive element.

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 It's the second most

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 reactive element after fluorine gas.

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 It loves to play with electrons

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 especially if those electrons

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 happen to be involving iron.

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 And copper's gift to the planet was the

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 ability to work with iron and oxygen at

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 the same time and not create

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 static, not create a reaction.

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 And out of that situation was born

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 several critical chemicals.

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 One of them was an enzyme the

278
00:12:25,708 --> 00:12:27,000
 classification is called

279
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,875
 multi-copper oxidases, MCOs.

280
00:12:32,458 --> 00:12:34,500
 And probably the I would argue is

281
00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:36,416
 probably one of the most important is

282
00:12:36,416 --> 00:12:40,833
 called cytochrome C oxidase and that's

283
00:12:40,833 --> 00:12:43,166
 obviously what's running complex for.

284
00:12:44,083 --> 00:12:50,208
 And that's where oxygen gets turned into

285
00:12:50,208 --> 00:12:54,125
 two molecules of water at the pH of

286
00:12:54,125 --> 00:12:57,791
 seven, critical pH of seven because

287
00:12:57,791 --> 00:13:00,000
 that's the optimal peak of energy

288
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,333
 production to allow ADP,

289
00:13:04,666 --> 00:13:09,041
 3 ADP to go over to complex five to

290
00:13:09,041 --> 00:13:11,041
 become 3 magnesium ATP.

291
00:13:12,166 --> 00:13:15,125
 Now the part that's a little nuanced and

292
00:13:15,125 --> 00:13:16,250
 it's very important for people to

293
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:19,000
 understand is that cytochrome C oxidase

294
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,083
 is like the stove in your home.

295
00:13:22,291 --> 00:13:23,708
 What's the stove made of?

296
00:13:24,208 --> 00:13:24,625
 Iron.

297
00:13:25,458 --> 00:13:30,666
 Made out of steel and cytochrome C

298
00:13:30,666 --> 00:13:33,708
 oxidase has a lot of iron in it, a lot of

299
00:13:33,708 --> 00:13:34,875
 iron sulfur clusters.

300
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,375
 Actually two where there's two iron

301
00:13:38,375 --> 00:13:40,083
 sulfur clusters there's two heme groups,

302
00:13:40,583 --> 00:13:41,833
 forgive me, two heme groups.

303
00:13:43,083 --> 00:13:46,583
 But there's also three copper atoms and

304
00:13:46,583 --> 00:13:49,250
 so think about your stove at home.

305
00:13:50,250 --> 00:13:51,958
 Does the stove know what's for dinner?

306
00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:53,666
 No.

307
00:13:54,958 --> 00:13:55,750
 Does the stove know what

308
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:57,208
 temperature to put the oven on?

309
00:13:58,083 --> 00:13:58,375
 No.

310
00:13:58,958 --> 00:13:59,458
 Does the stove know

311
00:13:59,458 --> 00:14:00,833
 which burner to turn on?

312
00:14:01,458 --> 00:14:01,958
 No.

313
00:14:02,916 --> 00:14:05,833
 And the world of convention has put a

314
00:14:05,833 --> 00:14:08,416
 spotlight on the stove of the

315
00:14:08,416 --> 00:14:11,583
 mitochondria and completely ignored the

316
00:14:11,583 --> 00:14:13,416
 chef that runs the show.

317
00:14:14,458 --> 00:14:16,250
 And in this case it's cytochrome C

318
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:21,000
 oxidase and it has a celebrated function

319
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,375
 of bringing in four hydrogen atoms or

320
00:14:25,375 --> 00:14:30,291
 protons, four electrons and voila in one

321
00:14:30,291 --> 00:14:32,500
 step creating two molecules of water.

322
00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:36,291
 That I think it's the most important

323
00:14:36,291 --> 00:14:38,583
 chemical reaction on the planet releases

324
00:14:38,583 --> 00:14:40,208
 the ADP at that point.

325
00:14:42,291 --> 00:14:44,958
 And you don't hear people talking about

326
00:14:44,958 --> 00:14:46,666
 that in the world of convention.

327
00:14:47,416 --> 00:14:48,958
 They love to talk about mitochondrial

328
00:14:48,958 --> 00:14:53,041
 dysfunction and they don't talk about the

329
00:14:53,041 --> 00:14:57,500
 55 or more solute transport carriers,

330
00:14:58,041 --> 00:14:59,708
 many of which are energy dependent.

331
00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:04,166
 They don't talk about cideroflexin, which

332
00:15:04,166 --> 00:15:05,375
 is really important

333
00:15:05,375 --> 00:15:07,625
 transport mechanism for iron.

334
00:15:07,916 --> 00:15:10,000
 I'm not familiar with that cideroflexin.

335
00:15:10,458 --> 00:15:12,083
 Cideroflexin.

336
00:15:12,416 --> 00:15:15,000
 I just learned it last week.

337
00:15:15,291 --> 00:15:15,708
 All right.

338
00:15:16,125 --> 00:15:17,125
 It's brand new to me.

339
00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:17,875
 I've never heard the

340
00:15:17,875 --> 00:15:18,875
 term before, I must admit.

341
00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:21,041
 It's going to make your toes curl when

342
00:15:21,041 --> 00:15:22,166
 you find out what it does.

343
00:15:22,708 --> 00:15:23,833
 What it does is it lets

344
00:15:23,833 --> 00:15:25,791
 iron into the mitochondria.

345
00:15:26,208 --> 00:15:26,541
 Oh wow.

346
00:15:26,875 --> 00:15:27,625
 Yeah, maybe not.

347
00:15:28,375 --> 00:15:28,583
 Right.

348
00:15:29,208 --> 00:15:31,500
 And so then we've got cideroflexin coming

349
00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,833
 in, allowing the iron in, and then we

350
00:15:33,833 --> 00:15:37,375
 have what are called ABC transporters,

351
00:15:37,375 --> 00:15:41,500
 ABC B8 in particular, but there's a whole

352
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:46,416
 series of ATP transporters

353
00:15:47,291 --> 00:15:49,958
 that are pushing iron out.

354
00:15:52,416 --> 00:15:54,875
 What people don't, I don't think people

355
00:15:54,875 --> 00:15:56,791
 fully understand is that if the

356
00:15:56,791 --> 00:15:59,125
 mitochondria starts to accumulate iron,

357
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,958
 which its tendency is to do,

358
00:16:03,250 --> 00:16:06,583
 the energy production collapses because

359
00:16:06,583 --> 00:16:08,666
 the oxygen is not available to be

360
00:16:08,666 --> 00:16:10,958
 activated to turn into water.

361
00:16:12,291 --> 00:16:17,166
 And you'll hear about hypoxia.

362
00:16:17,916 --> 00:16:19,041
 You've heard that term.

363
00:16:19,875 --> 00:16:20,041
 Definitely.

364
00:16:20,041 --> 00:16:22,875
 There's three different forms of hypoxia.

365
00:16:24,083 --> 00:16:25,250
 There's altitude.

366
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,041
 We're at the top of Mount Everest.

367
00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:29,166
 The air is very thin.

368
00:16:29,166 --> 00:16:29,833
 It's kind of hard to

369
00:16:29,833 --> 00:16:30,791
 find oxygen out there.

370
00:16:32,791 --> 00:16:34,916
 There's a second form called pathogenic

371
00:16:34,916 --> 00:16:37,791
 hypoxia, and that's neutrophils.

372
00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:39,916
 Those are the marines of the immune

373
00:16:39,916 --> 00:16:46,083
 system that are using oxygen as a bullet,

374
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,083
 turning it into an

375
00:16:48,083 --> 00:16:50,791
 oxidant to kill the pathogens.

376
00:16:51,833 --> 00:16:53,375
 Very important part of our immune system.

377
00:16:54,083 --> 00:16:55,333
 That function is copper

378
00:16:55,333 --> 00:16:56,541
 dependent, by the way.

379
00:16:58,250 --> 00:17:01,625
 That respiratory burst

380
00:17:01,625 --> 00:17:03,333
 function is copper dependent.

381
00:17:04,916 --> 00:17:07,083
 And then the third form of hypoxia that

382
00:17:07,083 --> 00:17:09,208
 no one talks about, I've only seen it in

383
00:17:09,208 --> 00:17:13,500
 one article, is functional hypoxia.

384
00:17:14,791 --> 00:17:17,875
 And what it really means is because of a

385
00:17:17,875 --> 00:17:20,833
 lack of bioavailable copper, and I think

386
00:17:20,833 --> 00:17:23,416
 it might also involve retinol, which we

387
00:17:23,416 --> 00:17:24,458
 can get into that as well,

388
00:17:26,250 --> 00:17:28,791
 the oxygen isn't

389
00:17:28,791 --> 00:17:30,625
 available to be activated.

390
00:17:31,416 --> 00:17:33,166
 It's become an oxidant.

391
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:36,750
 It's become hydrogen peroxide, or it's

392
00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:38,708
 become the hydroxyl radical.

393
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:41,166
 Or it's become superoxide

394
00:17:41,166 --> 00:17:42,750
 would be the starting point.

395
00:17:43,583 --> 00:17:45,833
 All of these, of course, being free

396
00:17:45,833 --> 00:17:48,791
 radicals that then cause various types of

397
00:17:48,791 --> 00:17:50,125
 cellular distress throughout the body.

398
00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:50,958
 Absolutely.

399
00:17:51,958 --> 00:17:54,625
 And we have mechanisms in our body to

400
00:17:54,625 --> 00:17:56,583
 neutralize them, but

401
00:17:56,583 --> 00:17:57,500
 they're all copper dependent.

402
00:17:58,916 --> 00:18:01,000
 And that isn't openly discussed in the

403
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,333
 literature, except in

404
00:18:02,333 --> 00:18:04,208
 certain schools of thought.

405
00:18:04,958 --> 00:18:05,791
 Yeah, that was going to be

406
00:18:05,791 --> 00:18:07,000
 my next question, actually.

407
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:10,666
 Coppers role as in support.

408
00:18:10,666 --> 00:18:13,041
 I know we'll get into this, maybe we can

409
00:18:13,041 --> 00:18:14,750
 catch into this rheoplasma a bit later,

410
00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:18,166
 but maybe copper's direct role to support

411
00:18:18,166 --> 00:18:19,000
 sort of mitochondrial

412
00:18:19,125 --> 00:18:20,166
 antioxidant activity.

413
00:18:20,416 --> 00:18:21,833
 I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong,

414
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:23,875
 it's involved in the production of

415
00:18:24,541 --> 00:18:26,458
 mitochondrial sod or

416
00:18:26,458 --> 00:18:27,625
 superoxide just to be changed.

417
00:18:27,625 --> 00:18:28,166
 Is that correct?

418
00:18:28,541 --> 00:18:29,416
 That's exactly right.

419
00:18:30,125 --> 00:18:33,750
 So you have the beauty of copper.

420
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,166
 It's a multifaceted,

421
00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:40,500
 many dimensional mineral

422
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:41,541
 in terms of what it does.

423
00:18:42,333 --> 00:18:48,125
 But it's creating energy, right?

424
00:18:49,833 --> 00:18:53,916
 And it's killing the enemies,

425
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,833
 one of them being, or another way to

426
00:18:57,833 --> 00:18:59,500
 think of it is creating

427
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:01,375
 energy and then clearing exhaust.

428
00:19:02,416 --> 00:19:05,833
 Those oxygen molecules that have become

429
00:19:05,833 --> 00:19:08,750
 altered because of electron chemistry

430
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:11,833
 aren't available to be activated and

431
00:19:11,833 --> 00:19:13,500
 become two molecules of water.

432
00:19:14,416 --> 00:19:18,708
 And so copper's gift in terms of our life

433
00:19:18,708 --> 00:19:22,708
 is the capacity to neutralize those

434
00:19:22,708 --> 00:19:26,750
 oxidants through superoxide dismutase

435
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:28,125
 would be one of the most important.

436
00:19:28,958 --> 00:19:31,125
 And it's clearly involved in

437
00:19:31,208 --> 00:19:33,541
 mitochondrial production or

438
00:19:33,541 --> 00:19:35,875
 neutralization of mitochondrial acid,

439
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:41,041
 superoxide, but also in glutathione

440
00:19:41,041 --> 00:19:43,375
 peroxidase and catalase.

441
00:19:44,083 --> 00:19:47,958
 I mean, the world is just a

442
00:19:47,958 --> 00:19:49,500
 flurry of thought now about

443
00:19:51,208 --> 00:19:52,083
 ferrooptosis.

444
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:54,166
 Everyone's talking about ferrooptosis,

445
00:19:54,625 --> 00:19:57,500
 but there's a very easy way to stop it

446
00:19:58,125 --> 00:20:01,416
 with ferrooxidase enzyme from ceruloplasm

447
00:20:01,416 --> 00:20:03,666
 or glutathione peroxidase 4.

448
00:20:04,625 --> 00:20:06,958
 And not a lot of people that that

449
00:20:06,958 --> 00:20:08,583
 acknowledged impact.

450
00:20:09,333 --> 00:20:09,541
 Yeah.

451
00:20:09,666 --> 00:20:10,791
 Just for the audience, would you mind

452
00:20:10,791 --> 00:20:11,958
 breaking down ferrooptosis?

453
00:20:12,208 --> 00:20:15,000
 It is, can be quite a complex topic.

454
00:20:15,208 --> 00:20:17,500
 And I know that will probably sort of

455
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:18,458
 might lead us to the

456
00:20:18,458 --> 00:20:19,750
 vitamin A discussion as well.

457
00:20:20,375 --> 00:20:22,041
 But yeah, would you mind

458
00:20:22,041 --> 00:20:24,458
 breaking down what that term is?

459
00:20:24,958 --> 00:20:27,958
 And this idea of sort of ion associated

460
00:20:27,958 --> 00:20:30,541
 sort of apoptosis, I suppose, or

461
00:20:30,541 --> 00:20:31,666
 pre-programmed cell death?

462
00:20:32,166 --> 00:20:32,583
 Exactly.

463
00:20:32,958 --> 00:20:36,083
 It's iron directed apoptosis.

464
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,916
 It is the generation of lipid peroxides,

465
00:20:42,833 --> 00:20:45,750
 lipid peroxidation is, those are very

466
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:49,250
 powerful oxidants that are going to

467
00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:51,583
 affect membrane integrity.

468
00:20:52,291 --> 00:20:53,625
 They're going to affect proteins.

469
00:20:54,166 --> 00:20:56,833
 It's going to create carbonylation would

470
00:20:56,833 --> 00:20:57,750
 be the technical term.

471
00:20:58,166 --> 00:21:00,333
 And it's also going to lead to the dings

472
00:21:00,333 --> 00:21:02,458
 of DNA inside the nucleus.

473
00:21:04,666 --> 00:21:08,458
 The relationship to the iron, again,

474
00:21:08,458 --> 00:21:11,250
 we're going back to sliteroflexin.

475
00:21:11,958 --> 00:21:13,708
 And if there's too much iron coming in,

476
00:21:14,291 --> 00:21:16,833
 and it starts to react with the membrane,

477
00:21:17,791 --> 00:21:18,375
 well, you're going to,

478
00:21:18,666 --> 00:21:20,166
 again, it's a chain reaction.

479
00:21:20,166 --> 00:21:22,375
 It isn't just, oh, it's

480
00:21:22,375 --> 00:21:23,541
 like a pinball machine.

481
00:21:24,291 --> 00:21:27,500
 And that iron, there's the steel ball

482
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:30,083
 moving all around the the machine.

483
00:21:30,958 --> 00:21:31,875
 And it's got to be stopped.

484
00:21:32,416 --> 00:21:33,375
 It's got to be neutralized.

485
00:21:33,916 --> 00:21:36,250
 And one of the most important mechanisms

486
00:21:36,250 --> 00:21:37,666
 to stop that lipid

487
00:21:37,666 --> 00:21:39,916
 chain reaction is vitamin E.

488
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,333
 It's the chain breaking antioxidant that

489
00:21:44,333 --> 00:21:45,666
 no one seems to talk about.

490
00:21:46,958 --> 00:21:48,625
 And there's a lot of concerns, as you

491
00:21:48,625 --> 00:21:50,875
 well know, about Puthis.

492
00:21:51,791 --> 00:21:52,958
 It's called feeding Puthis.

493
00:21:53,958 --> 00:21:55,083
 It's like, wait a

494
00:21:55,083 --> 00:21:56,041
 minute, let's back up a step.

495
00:21:56,083 --> 00:22:00,833
 You know, what are our cell membranes and

496
00:22:00,833 --> 00:22:02,541
 organelle membranes made out of?

497
00:22:02,541 --> 00:22:04,541
 Well, yeah, they're made out of Puthis.

498
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,333
 And controlled oxidation.

499
00:22:06,958 --> 00:22:07,625
 Absolutely.

500
00:22:08,166 --> 00:22:11,541
 And so what is the match to

501
00:22:11,541 --> 00:22:13,416
 the fire of lipid peroxidation?

502
00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:14,750
 It's iron.

503
00:22:15,791 --> 00:22:17,708
 And that's documented in the literature,

504
00:22:18,208 --> 00:22:20,000
 I think it's 2008 and 2011.

505
00:22:20,541 --> 00:22:22,583
 It's just the scientists

506
00:22:22,583 --> 00:22:25,458
 know this deeper level of truth.

507
00:22:26,291 --> 00:22:28,750
 But it's not being brought to the

508
00:22:28,750 --> 00:22:31,000
 attention of students in the classroom

509
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,750
 about how the body really works.

510
00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:35,708
 It really isn't Occam's razor, isn't it,

511
00:22:35,708 --> 00:22:36,791
 at the end of the day, the simplest

512
00:22:36,791 --> 00:22:38,125
 explanation on music, right?

513
00:22:38,125 --> 00:22:41,291
 One was sort of wrapped up in Puthis or

514
00:22:41,291 --> 00:22:42,291
 seed oils to be a bit

515
00:22:42,291 --> 00:22:43,416
 more colloquial about it.

516
00:22:43,416 --> 00:22:45,625
 That we're not sort of wondering why they

517
00:22:45,625 --> 00:22:47,250
 are becoming an issue.

518
00:22:47,250 --> 00:22:49,041
 I mean, historically, they shouldn't be.

519
00:22:49,041 --> 00:22:50,791
 I mean, it's not like throughout

520
00:22:50,791 --> 00:22:52,083
 evolution, nobody has

521
00:22:52,083 --> 00:22:54,166
 ever consumed seed oils.

522
00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:55,625
 And up until recently, they've never

523
00:22:55,625 --> 00:22:57,041
 really been a cause for concern.

524
00:22:57,375 --> 00:22:59,166
 And when looking at these sorts of

525
00:22:59,166 --> 00:23:01,666
 diseases that are metabolic in nature,

526
00:23:02,291 --> 00:23:03,750
 and excuse me, that are metabolic in

527
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:05,583
 nature, yet all of a sudden, people are

528
00:23:05,583 --> 00:23:07,666
 happy to sort of try point to them as

529
00:23:07,666 --> 00:23:10,125
 being this root cause issue when

530
00:23:10,125 --> 00:23:12,875
 fundamentally, they're fairly benign, you

531
00:23:12,875 --> 00:23:15,250
 know, themselves, it's the oxidation of

532
00:23:15,250 --> 00:23:16,291
 them that's a problem.

533
00:23:16,291 --> 00:23:19,541
 And as you correctly pointed out, that's

534
00:23:19,541 --> 00:23:23,125
 being driven by this sort of this mineral

535
00:23:23,125 --> 00:23:25,125
 balance, this copper ion imbalance that's

536
00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:25,875
 sort of leading to

537
00:23:25,875 --> 00:23:27,750
 their excessive oxidation.

538
00:23:29,916 --> 00:23:33,500
 I suppose, while we're on the topic of

539
00:23:35,583 --> 00:23:37,833
 oxidation, it would be great to sort of

540
00:23:37,833 --> 00:23:40,000
 at least have an initial sort of chat

541
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,291
 into the whole world of ceruloplasmin.

542
00:23:43,541 --> 00:23:46,750
 I think for those in the know, I think

543
00:23:46,750 --> 00:23:48,916
 people see it as potentially a copper

544
00:23:48,916 --> 00:23:50,875
 transporter, I might be correct, but it

545
00:23:50,875 --> 00:23:54,000
 plays just so many more roles in that.

546
00:23:54,458 --> 00:23:56,625
 It's as an example, it's an antioxidant.

547
00:23:57,708 --> 00:23:59,208
 Now, I know this is again, this is

548
00:23:59,208 --> 00:24:01,958
 something we chatted before, or about all

549
00:24:01,958 --> 00:24:04,000
 fair, but it's almost central to your

550
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,250
 hypothesis in a sense.

551
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,000
 Could you sort of, or at least briefly

552
00:24:08,166 --> 00:24:09,625
 just sort of work through the

553
00:24:09,625 --> 00:24:11,291
 ceruloplasmin story for the audience?

554
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:12,416
 Can't wait.

555
00:24:13,208 --> 00:24:19,416
 It's a protein that was first identified

556
00:24:19,416 --> 00:24:23,708
 in the 1940s, beginning of 1940, 1941.

557
00:24:24,625 --> 00:24:29,166
 But it's the consistent reference is 1948

558
00:24:29,166 --> 00:24:30,666
 by Holmberg and Law.

559
00:24:31,416 --> 00:24:34,125
 And they had broken ground and they were

560
00:24:34,125 --> 00:24:34,833
 the ones that had done

561
00:24:34,833 --> 00:24:36,041
 the most research on it.

562
00:24:38,333 --> 00:24:40,208
 And it's a protein

563
00:24:40,208 --> 00:24:43,208
 that has 1046 amino acids.

564
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:47,166
 It's not the biggest protein in the body,

565
00:24:47,166 --> 00:24:48,041
 but it's one of the biggest.

566
00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:51,000
 But what makes it unique is its

567
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,250
 composition of copper

568
00:24:52,625 --> 00:24:53,583
 inside that protein.

569
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:56,750
 And when it was first discovered, there

570
00:24:56,750 --> 00:24:58,125
 were eight atoms of copper.

571
00:24:59,375 --> 00:25:02,083
 And from 1948 to like 1975,

572
00:25:03,416 --> 00:25:04,625
 there were eight atoms of copper.

573
00:25:05,666 --> 00:25:08,250
 Then mysteriously in the 1970s, the

574
00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:09,791
 literature started to shift and say,

575
00:25:09,791 --> 00:25:11,291
 well, actually it's only seven copies.

576
00:25:12,375 --> 00:25:14,541
 A very mysterious change in the number.

577
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,500
 And you say, well, they must have had

578
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:18,041
 better diagnostic technique.

579
00:25:18,583 --> 00:25:19,875
 No, that's not at all.

580
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,041
 And so then for 30 years,

581
00:25:23,458 --> 00:25:26,041
 it was seven atoms of copper.

582
00:25:26,708 --> 00:25:29,416
 And now in the around 2000,

583
00:25:30,166 --> 00:25:32,083
 it became six atoms of copper.

584
00:25:32,708 --> 00:25:34,333
 All the literature, all the recent

585
00:25:34,333 --> 00:25:37,291
 literature refers to seroloplasm having

586
00:25:37,291 --> 00:25:38,416
 six atoms of copper.

587
00:25:38,916 --> 00:25:40,666
 So put it in the context of your car.

588
00:25:41,625 --> 00:25:43,041
 If you've ever driven a V8,

589
00:25:43,541 --> 00:25:45,125
 you know how much power V8 has.

590
00:25:45,791 --> 00:25:47,916
 You take two cylinders out of the V8, it

591
00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:48,666
 doesn't ride the same.

592
00:25:49,458 --> 00:25:50,333
 It has a completely

593
00:25:50,333 --> 00:25:52,083
 different source of power.

594
00:25:52,708 --> 00:25:54,625
 And it just, it neuters

595
00:25:54,625 --> 00:25:57,291
 its strength as a car.

596
00:25:57,916 --> 00:25:58,416
 Well, that's what's

597
00:25:58,416 --> 00:26:00,041
 happening, I think, to seroloplasm.

598
00:26:01,833 --> 00:26:03,250
 Some of the most

599
00:26:03,250 --> 00:26:05,750
 revealing research was done by

600
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,041
 two different teams.

601
00:26:09,041 --> 00:26:10,833
 One was a team out of Harvard,

602
00:26:11,708 --> 00:26:12,916
 Scheinberg and Stern and Eke.

603
00:26:13,916 --> 00:26:15,625
 This was in the 1960s.

604
00:26:16,083 --> 00:26:17,375
 What's very entertaining about that

605
00:26:17,375 --> 00:26:20,000
 research is here we have two preeminent

606
00:26:20,458 --> 00:26:23,416
 hematologists from Harvard Medical School

607
00:26:23,416 --> 00:26:28,791
 doing research at an AT&T Bell laboratory

608
00:26:29,125 --> 00:26:30,500
 in upstate New York.

609
00:26:31,791 --> 00:26:34,375
 Why were they studying human protein

610
00:26:34,375 --> 00:26:35,833
 metabolism of

611
00:26:35,833 --> 00:26:38,208
 seroloplasm in a phone laboratory?

612
00:26:38,750 --> 00:26:40,500
 I just find that utterly fascinating.

613
00:26:41,125 --> 00:26:43,500
 But there's a series of nine studies that

614
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:45,458
 they published that revealed a lot about

615
00:26:45,458 --> 00:26:46,791
 what seroloplasm is doing.

616
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:51,958
 And then some more critically important

617
00:26:51,958 --> 00:26:54,541
 research was done by Earl Frieden, who

618
00:26:54,541 --> 00:26:58,458
 was the dean of metal biology for decades

619
00:26:58,458 --> 00:26:59,708
 at Florida State

620
00:26:59,708 --> 00:27:01,708
 University here in the US.

621
00:27:02,666 --> 00:27:07,000
 And he, in the late 60s, 70s and 80s, did

622
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,708
 a lot of studies about what

623
00:27:08,708 --> 00:27:11,750
 is the nature of this protein.

624
00:27:12,541 --> 00:27:14,833
 And what began to emerge is that, in

625
00:27:14,833 --> 00:27:17,291
 fact, there's 15 different

626
00:27:17,291 --> 00:27:19,625
 substrates for seroloplasm.

627
00:27:20,083 --> 00:27:21,250
 But this is just iron.

628
00:27:22,333 --> 00:27:23,750
 They work with copper.

629
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:24,833
 It works with oxygen.

630
00:27:24,833 --> 00:27:25,875
 It works with phenol

631
00:27:25,875 --> 00:27:27,708
 groups, diphenol groups,

632
00:27:28,958 --> 00:27:29,708
 amine groups,

633
00:27:30,458 --> 00:27:33,250
 bioenergetic, biogenic amine.

634
00:27:33,250 --> 00:27:35,083
 It's staggering what

635
00:27:35,083 --> 00:27:36,458
 it's capable of doing.

636
00:27:36,458 --> 00:27:37,041
 All of the

637
00:27:37,041 --> 00:27:40,791
 catecholamines react with seroloplasm.

638
00:27:41,166 --> 00:27:44,791
 And what it means is that seroloplasm has

639
00:27:44,791 --> 00:27:48,541
 a unique ability to work with those

640
00:27:48,541 --> 00:27:52,000
 substrates to change their structure and

641
00:27:52,083 --> 00:27:54,000
 function, to make them beneficial,

642
00:27:55,041 --> 00:27:57,000
 turn on things, turn off things.

643
00:27:57,875 --> 00:28:01,333
 And I would argue it's one of the most

644
00:28:01,333 --> 00:28:02,875
 important mechanisms of

645
00:28:02,875 --> 00:28:04,791
 intelligence in our body.

646
00:28:05,916 --> 00:28:10,500
 And one example of the power of this is

647
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:13,000
 that some interesting numbers,

648
00:28:14,375 --> 00:28:18,750
 36% of the Earth's composition is iron.

649
00:28:20,083 --> 00:28:21,000
 That's a lot of iron.

650
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:22,666
 It is a lot of iron, yeah.

651
00:28:22,666 --> 00:28:25,083
 So over a third of the Earth has some

652
00:28:25,083 --> 00:28:27,083
 manifestation of iron.

653
00:28:28,208 --> 00:28:30,000
 And according to the latest research of

654
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,416
 the World Health Organization,

655
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:35,541
 to the extent that we can trust it, 27%

656
00:28:36,125 --> 00:28:39,000
 of Earthlings, it's a quarter of the

657
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,458
 people on the planet, are anemic.

658
00:28:42,833 --> 00:28:43,666
 It's a lot of people.

659
00:28:44,291 --> 00:28:46,375
 That's 2 million people who can't

660
00:28:46,375 --> 00:28:48,333
 metabolize the number

661
00:28:48,333 --> 00:28:49,625
 one element on the planet.

662
00:28:50,875 --> 00:28:52,000
 And in 1971,

663
00:28:53,583 --> 00:28:53,791
 Dr.

664
00:28:54,083 --> 00:28:55,166
 Frieden wrote a very

665
00:28:55,166 --> 00:28:57,000
 important article about seroloplasm.

666
00:28:58,041 --> 00:29:01,916
 And he was doing research to see what

667
00:29:01,916 --> 00:29:06,333
 happens as the activity level of the

668
00:29:06,333 --> 00:29:08,833
 ferrooxidase enzyme dropped.

669
00:29:10,041 --> 00:29:11,291
 And so what we have to do is back up and

670
00:29:11,291 --> 00:29:14,000
 say, so we've got a seroloplasm protein

671
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,000
 that can express itself in

672
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,791
 nine different enzyme functions.

673
00:29:20,041 --> 00:29:23,458
 That's a very unique capability to have.

674
00:29:24,208 --> 00:29:28,083
 The whole basis of modern pharmacology is

675
00:29:28,416 --> 00:29:31,625
 one gene, one protein, one function.

676
00:29:32,500 --> 00:29:34,250
 Well, seroloplasm is one gene.

677
00:29:34,750 --> 00:29:36,250
 It is one protein, but

678
00:29:36,250 --> 00:29:38,416
 it's many, many functions.

679
00:29:38,958 --> 00:29:40,750
 Some say it might be as high as 20

680
00:29:40,750 --> 00:29:41,500
 different functions.

681
00:29:42,166 --> 00:29:43,125
 I'll keep it conservative.

682
00:29:43,375 --> 00:29:44,083
 I'm just saying nine.

683
00:29:44,916 --> 00:29:46,833
 I can identify those nineisms.

684
00:29:47,875 --> 00:29:51,000
 And then we find out that the one that

685
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,791
 they always talk about in the literature

686
00:29:52,791 --> 00:29:55,500
 is ferrooxidase enzyme.

687
00:29:56,083 --> 00:29:58,833
 And what it's doing is it's oxidizing

688
00:29:58,833 --> 00:30:02,500
 ferrocyne plus 2, and we're

689
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,000
 going to ferric iron plus 3.

690
00:30:05,458 --> 00:30:08,833
 In that ferric form, it can be either

691
00:30:08,833 --> 00:30:13,500
 loaded into ferritin for storage, or it

692
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:15,791
 can be loaded onto a transfer for

693
00:30:15,791 --> 00:30:18,500
 transport back to the bone marrow so we

694
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:19,875
 can make new red blood cells.

695
00:30:20,291 --> 00:30:21,041
 Very, very important

696
00:30:21,041 --> 00:30:22,708
 because we're doing that.

697
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:25,708
 We've got to replace two and a half

698
00:30:25,708 --> 00:30:26,958
 million red blood cells

699
00:30:26,958 --> 00:30:28,958
 every second of every day.

700
00:30:29,416 --> 00:30:30,208
 Those are big numbers.

701
00:30:30,791 --> 00:30:33,458
 I have a friend who says, "Worly, there's

702
00:30:33,458 --> 00:30:35,458
 only three numbers, one, two, and a lot."

703
00:30:37,125 --> 00:30:39,583
 When you start talking about 2.5 million

704
00:30:39,583 --> 00:30:42,500
 a second, it's just people can understand

705
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:43,958
 that, so it can't be that important.

706
00:30:44,208 --> 00:30:45,333
 That's usually what people will say.

707
00:30:46,333 --> 00:30:47,958
 I can't process it.

708
00:30:47,958 --> 00:30:49,500
 But that's one of the most important

709
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:51,208
 aspects in our body is

710
00:30:51,208 --> 00:30:53,041
 that perpetual replacement.

711
00:30:54,166 --> 00:30:56,833
 And the Ceruloplasmic

712
00:30:56,833 --> 00:31:00,250
 expression is something that Dr.

713
00:31:00,458 --> 00:31:01,166
 Frieden really studied.

714
00:31:02,250 --> 00:31:05,416
 And when it went down to 10% of ideal

715
00:31:05,416 --> 00:31:08,250
 function as the ferrooxidase enzyme,

716
00:31:09,125 --> 00:31:10,708
 there was still healthy

717
00:31:10,708 --> 00:31:11,916
 hemoglobin production.

718
00:31:12,916 --> 00:31:18,583
 When it went down to 1%, 1% of ideal, it

719
00:31:18,583 --> 00:31:21,000
 was still functioning, but

720
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,583
 it wasn't at the right level.

721
00:31:23,375 --> 00:31:26,083
 And what he asserted was that after seven

722
00:31:26,083 --> 00:31:30,125
 days of zero ferrooxidase function,

723
00:31:30,875 --> 00:31:33,041
 that's when anemia began

724
00:31:33,041 --> 00:31:34,375
 to present in the animals.

725
00:31:35,291 --> 00:31:38,333
 Anemia is lack of sufficient hemoglobin.

726
00:31:38,583 --> 00:31:39,541
 That's the real

727
00:31:39,541 --> 00:31:41,458
 clinical definition of anemia.

728
00:31:41,708 --> 00:31:44,458
 It's not red blood cells, it's lack of

729
00:31:44,458 --> 00:31:46,541
 hemoglobin in the red blood cell.

730
00:31:47,416 --> 00:31:49,375
 And is that what's then potentially

731
00:31:49,458 --> 00:31:51,000
 driving the iron deficient anemia?

732
00:31:51,666 --> 00:31:51,875
 Exactly.

733
00:31:52,666 --> 00:31:57,500
 And so again, it took seven days of zero

734
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,000
 ferrooxidase expression to then trigger

735
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,375
 the expression of anemia.

736
00:32:02,916 --> 00:32:03,875
 And here's the catch.

737
00:32:03,958 --> 00:32:05,000
 This is very important.

738
00:32:06,791 --> 00:32:12,666
 Low iron in a blood cell does not match

739
00:32:12,666 --> 00:32:13,916
 up with high iron

740
00:32:13,916 --> 00:32:15,041
 that's stuck in the tissue.

741
00:32:16,041 --> 00:32:19,958
 And that is ferrooxidase's gift to all

742
00:32:19,958 --> 00:32:23,916
 life is the ability to recycle iron.

743
00:32:24,541 --> 00:32:26,375
 That's what it's trying to do as we're

744
00:32:26,375 --> 00:32:28,875
 replacing 2.5 million red blood cells.

745
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:31,708
 We've got to break them down, got to

746
00:32:31,708 --> 00:32:33,541
 release the iron, got to get it

747
00:32:33,541 --> 00:32:35,458
 transported back to the bone marrow.

748
00:32:36,125 --> 00:32:37,708
 And there are a lot of steps in between,

749
00:32:38,041 --> 00:32:40,875
 but this is completely lost in a world

750
00:32:40,875 --> 00:32:46,083
 that is preoccupied with dietary iron as

751
00:32:46,083 --> 00:32:48,125
 opposed to recycled iron.

752
00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:50,500
 And one of the most important statistics

753
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:52,791
 as it relates to this whole dynamic is

754
00:32:52,791 --> 00:32:57,541
 that only one milligram of iron needs to

755
00:32:57,541 --> 00:32:58,375
 come through our diet.

756
00:32:59,666 --> 00:33:02,000
 24 of the 25 milligrams that are needed

757
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,416
 every day to make that 200 billion red

758
00:33:05,416 --> 00:33:07,208
 blood cells every 24 hours.

759
00:33:08,291 --> 00:33:11,625
 24 of those 25 milligrams comes from the

760
00:33:11,625 --> 00:33:14,041
 recycling system that is

761
00:33:14,041 --> 00:33:16,791
 run and regulated by COPPA.

762
00:33:18,083 --> 00:33:22,166
 And so you've probably heard the phrase,

763
00:33:22,541 --> 00:33:25,750
 the simple lie versus the complex truth.

764
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:28,625
 Everyone wants the simple lie.

765
00:33:29,041 --> 00:33:31,500
 It was Alex de Tocqueville who said it in

766
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:33,250
 trans but centuries before

767
00:33:33,250 --> 00:33:35,500
 him it was Lao Tzu in China.

768
00:33:36,375 --> 00:33:38,333
 People would always prefer the simple lie

769
00:33:38,333 --> 00:33:39,416
 than the complex truth.

770
00:33:39,791 --> 00:33:41,041
 It's just easier to accept.

771
00:33:41,625 --> 00:33:42,833
 Well the simple lie is

772
00:33:42,833 --> 00:33:43,833
 that people are anemic.

773
00:33:44,791 --> 00:33:48,375
 The complex truth is I have access to

774
00:33:48,375 --> 00:33:51,416
 articles that to my satisfaction prove

775
00:33:51,416 --> 00:33:54,250
 that there's nine copper dependent enzyme

776
00:33:54,333 --> 00:33:58,333
 functions that contribute to "anemia"

777
00:33:58,708 --> 00:34:00,041
 that have nothing to do with iron.

778
00:34:01,250 --> 00:34:03,333
 And it's absolutely fascinating that the

779
00:34:03,333 --> 00:34:07,500
 world has been captivated by this idea of

780
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:10,750
 low iron and has very little

781
00:34:10,750 --> 00:34:11,958
 understanding or awareness

782
00:34:11,958 --> 00:34:13,541
 that COPPA is running the show.

783
00:34:14,125 --> 00:34:16,500
 COPPA is the gem in the iron is the foot

784
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:18,625
 soldier and that's not how it's presented

785
00:34:18,625 --> 00:34:19,750
 in the literature at all.

786
00:34:20,208 --> 00:34:21,958
 Yeah, it's the other way around and for

787
00:34:21,958 --> 00:34:23,708
 the most part people are more than happy

788
00:34:23,708 --> 00:34:26,125
 to just try and treat these conditions

789
00:34:26,125 --> 00:34:29,625
 ironically enough by well supplying the

790
00:34:29,625 --> 00:34:31,541
 body with more iron.

791
00:34:32,166 --> 00:34:33,083
 I suppose that's the

792
00:34:33,083 --> 00:34:34,541
 great irony there, isn't it?

793
00:34:34,541 --> 00:34:34,875
 Absolutely.

794
00:34:35,208 --> 00:34:37,458
 I mean it's just the world does not

795
00:34:37,458 --> 00:34:38,583
 understand that

796
00:34:38,583 --> 00:34:41,083
 copper iron interdependent

797
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:44,916
 and if I were king for a day, if I had a

798
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:48,458
 magic wand, I would require all studies

799
00:34:48,458 --> 00:34:52,791
 of iron to involve copper metabolism and

800
00:34:52,791 --> 00:34:55,000
 all studies of copper metabolism to

801
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,375
 indicate its impact on iron.

802
00:34:57,208 --> 00:35:00,083
 We've got to get beyond and get people to

803
00:35:00,083 --> 00:35:03,791
 realize this interdependence that these

804
00:35:03,791 --> 00:35:06,333
 metals have in bringing up homeostasis

805
00:35:06,333 --> 00:35:07,125
 that you were referring

806
00:35:07,125 --> 00:35:08,166
 to at the very beginning.

807
00:35:09,166 --> 00:35:11,500
 Yeah, this sort of again, it's a common

808
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:13,541
 theme in sort of biology as a whole.

809
00:35:13,541 --> 00:35:15,500
 Everybody sort of gets stuck in a sort of

810
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,125
 a siloed in their own silo, don't they?

811
00:35:18,458 --> 00:35:21,000
 Irrespective of where you are and you

812
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,583
 sort of end up missing, what's the

813
00:35:23,583 --> 00:35:25,250
 expression you end up missing the woods

814
00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:26,833
 for the tree, something to that extent?

815
00:35:27,416 --> 00:35:28,416
 Yeah, the site of the

816
00:35:28,416 --> 00:35:29,166
 forest for the trees.

817
00:35:29,958 --> 00:35:30,375
 There we go.

818
00:35:30,708 --> 00:35:32,500
 We had the pleasure of spending an

819
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,791
 evening with Douglas Cowell who was a low

820
00:35:34,791 --> 00:35:38,041
 way down iron expert and when he was at

821
00:35:38,041 --> 00:35:41,500
 University of Manchester, his best friend

822
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,791
 was Garth Cooper who was in

823
00:35:43,791 --> 00:35:44,875
 the office right next to him.

824
00:35:44,875 --> 00:35:46,791
 He was a world renowned

825
00:35:46,791 --> 00:35:49,958
 copper expert and according to Dr.

826
00:35:49,958 --> 00:35:51,166
 Cowell, they never talked shop.

827
00:35:51,708 --> 00:35:52,166
 What?

828
00:35:53,458 --> 00:35:55,125
 But I'll take him as word.

829
00:35:55,583 --> 00:35:57,833
 They just enjoyed each other's company.

830
00:35:57,833 --> 00:35:58,500
 They'd go to the pub

831
00:35:59,041 --> 00:36:00,375
 and let off some steam.

832
00:36:00,583 --> 00:36:02,291
 But it's like they didn't talk about how

833
00:36:02,291 --> 00:36:05,333
 their two research worlds were interwoven

834
00:36:05,333 --> 00:36:07,208
 in a very intimate way.

835
00:36:07,708 --> 00:36:10,500
 That's the challenge we've got around the

836
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:12,750
 globe, is getting more people

837
00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:15,000
 to be aware of your curiosity.

838
00:36:16,125 --> 00:36:18,000
 So what are we missing?

839
00:36:18,291 --> 00:36:19,375
 What's the part that we

840
00:36:19,375 --> 00:36:20,291
 don't seem to understand?

841
00:36:20,916 --> 00:36:23,375
 I think it's this idea that somehow,

842
00:36:24,458 --> 00:36:26,583
 in my way of thinking,

843
00:36:27,041 --> 00:36:28,208
 copper's running the show.

844
00:36:29,416 --> 00:36:31,250
 But we're taught that it's toxic.

845
00:36:32,375 --> 00:36:35,083
 And when you get into the real bowels of

846
00:36:35,083 --> 00:36:36,916
 human metabolism especially,

847
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,666
 it's undeniably central to

848
00:36:42,666 --> 00:36:44,125
 our health and physiology.

849
00:36:44,916 --> 00:36:46,833
 It makes no sense any other way.

850
00:36:47,416 --> 00:36:49,208
 And it's just not taught that way in any

851
00:36:49,208 --> 00:36:51,833
 school of nutrition or any kind of

852
00:36:51,833 --> 00:36:54,500
 doctor's school, whether you're

853
00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:56,875
 allopathic or homeopathic or

854
00:36:56,875 --> 00:36:58,625
 osteopathic or naturopathic.

855
00:37:00,583 --> 00:37:02,541
 Copper's not part of their vocabulary.

856
00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:06,125
 And as I was noting before we started the

857
00:37:06,125 --> 00:37:08,333
 formal part of the conversation, I've

858
00:37:08,333 --> 00:37:11,791
 seen five textbooks, not one mention of

859
00:37:11,791 --> 00:37:13,791
 this protein that you're

860
00:37:13,791 --> 00:37:15,583
 curious about, the ceruleoplasm.

861
00:37:16,416 --> 00:37:18,583
 And what's also important for people to

862
00:37:18,583 --> 00:37:19,958
 know is that it's

863
00:37:19,958 --> 00:37:22,041
 subject to modification.

864
00:37:22,750 --> 00:37:25,791
 It can get what's called denatrine so

865
00:37:25,791 --> 00:37:29,375
 that in the presence of ascorbic acid or

866
00:37:29,375 --> 00:37:34,583
 citric acid, it changes its structure and

867
00:37:34,583 --> 00:37:35,791
 the copper gets released.

868
00:37:36,666 --> 00:37:41,250
 In the presence of high glucose, blood

869
00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:42,416
 glucose, when blood

870
00:37:42,416 --> 00:37:44,000
 glucose gets above 120,

871
00:37:45,166 --> 00:37:45,875
 the denature of

872
00:37:45,875 --> 00:37:48,000
 ceruleoplasma, the copper's come out.

873
00:37:48,708 --> 00:37:49,916
 And so everyone is taught

874
00:37:49,916 --> 00:37:53,000
 to fear this unbound copper.

875
00:37:54,208 --> 00:37:57,416
 The copper's concentration in the blood

876
00:37:57,416 --> 00:37:59,000
 is one percent of the

877
00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:59,958
 copper's in the blood.

878
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,625
 99% is in the tissue.

879
00:38:03,541 --> 00:38:05,583
 And if the copper is rising in the blood,

880
00:38:06,333 --> 00:38:07,916
 it means it's missing in the tissue.

881
00:38:08,833 --> 00:38:11,666
 And it's the absolute inverse of iron

882
00:38:11,666 --> 00:38:14,833
 that when iron is low in the blood, it

883
00:38:14,833 --> 00:38:16,208
 means it's stuck in the tissue.

884
00:38:17,458 --> 00:38:19,375
 That's just getting people to see the

885
00:38:19,375 --> 00:38:21,958
 symmetry of that and how that gets

886
00:38:21,958 --> 00:38:23,500
 represented in the testing.

887
00:38:24,208 --> 00:38:26,958
 But we don't have access to perfect

888
00:38:26,958 --> 00:38:29,416
 testing because at least here in the

889
00:38:29,416 --> 00:38:32,375
 States, we're not allowed to test for the

890
00:38:32,375 --> 00:38:34,375
 ferrooxidase enzyme function.

891
00:38:34,875 --> 00:38:36,500
 There are only a handful of countries in

892
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:37,833
 the world that believe in allowing.

893
00:38:38,833 --> 00:38:43,083
 I don't think I've ever even seen it on a

894
00:38:43,083 --> 00:38:44,583
 lab request sheet, to be honest.

895
00:38:46,208 --> 00:38:48,500
 I suppose speaking of testing, you're a

896
00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:49,291
 proponent of a hair

897
00:38:49,291 --> 00:38:50,708
 mineral analysis in that respect.

898
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,500
 Could you sort of briefly just walk us

899
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:55,750
 through that and then maybe we could sort

900
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:56,916
 of transition into your

901
00:38:56,916 --> 00:38:57,791
 protocol specifically?

902
00:38:58,541 --> 00:38:58,750
 Sure.

903
00:38:59,791 --> 00:39:01,666
 Been working with the hair tissue mineral

904
00:39:01,666 --> 00:39:03,125
 analysis from the beginning.

905
00:39:04,875 --> 00:39:07,750
 And my mentor in those early days, early

906
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:10,166
 years, was a gentleman by

907
00:39:10,166 --> 00:39:11,083
 the name of Rick Malter.

908
00:39:11,333 --> 00:39:12,791
 He's a clinical psychologist.

909
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:17,541
 And he had been using HGMA data for

910
00:39:17,541 --> 00:39:20,791
 decades, maybe three and a half decades.

911
00:39:21,875 --> 00:39:24,416
 And he was very quick to point out to me

912
00:39:24,416 --> 00:39:28,000
 that there's really two questions that

913
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,333
 can be answered in a hair test.

914
00:39:30,541 --> 00:39:30,833
 One,

915
00:39:31,833 --> 00:39:33,375
 is this person under stress?

916
00:39:34,583 --> 00:39:36,000
 Very important because it will reveal

917
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,500
 itself very quickly in the hair test.

918
00:39:38,458 --> 00:39:40,541
 And secondly, can this person mobilize

919
00:39:40,541 --> 00:39:42,833
 energy in the face of their stress?

920
00:39:44,291 --> 00:39:47,125
 And he developed something called the

921
00:39:47,125 --> 00:39:51,583
 Malter mix to normalize the results so

922
00:39:51,583 --> 00:39:53,708
 that you're seeing what's the actual

923
00:39:53,833 --> 00:39:56,625
 magnesium and what he was doing was

924
00:39:56,625 --> 00:39:57,791
 relative to its ideal,

925
00:39:58,791 --> 00:40:01,000
 actual calcium relative to its ideal.

926
00:40:01,041 --> 00:40:04,916
 And so the Malter mix is a great way to

927
00:40:04,916 --> 00:40:08,958
 level the data from the hair test because

928
00:40:08,958 --> 00:40:11,208
 it's very easy to be overwhelmed by that

929
00:40:11,208 --> 00:40:13,833
 trees versus forest dynamic.

930
00:40:15,875 --> 00:40:20,500
 And I think what my thinking really began

931
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:22,916
 to change about the hair test was when I

932
00:40:22,916 --> 00:40:25,000
 realized that you can't measure

933
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,500
 ceruloplasmin activity

934
00:40:28,416 --> 00:40:30,708
 or level in a hair test.

935
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:33,583
 We can measure the mineral copper, but we

936
00:40:33,583 --> 00:40:34,833
 can't get to its protein

937
00:40:34,833 --> 00:40:36,000
 that really runs the show.

938
00:40:36,916 --> 00:40:39,875
 And so that's when I began to move into

939
00:40:39,875 --> 00:40:41,083
 the world of blood testing.

940
00:40:41,333 --> 00:40:43,666
 And it's not perfect because there's so

941
00:40:43,666 --> 00:40:45,083
 many restrictions on what we're allowed

942
00:40:45,083 --> 00:40:48,500
 to test in the blood, but it presented a

943
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:50,500
 completely different perspective of

944
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:52,291
 copper as it relates to

945
00:40:52,291 --> 00:40:53,583
 its influence in the body.

946
00:40:54,541 --> 00:40:56,541
 And so the hair test, I think it's an

947
00:40:56,541 --> 00:41:00,250
 absolutely vital source of broad

948
00:41:00,250 --> 00:41:03,000
 information because what you're looking

949
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,166
 for is to what extent is this person's

950
00:41:07,166 --> 00:41:09,416
 mineral expression all over the map.

951
00:41:09,916 --> 00:41:11,791
 And the more it's all over the map, the

952
00:41:11,791 --> 00:41:13,166
 more stress they're dealing with

953
00:41:14,208 --> 00:41:17,333
 and that it's very easy to reveal, are

954
00:41:17,333 --> 00:41:21,791
 they making energy through the adrenal

955
00:41:21,791 --> 00:41:24,750
 ratio and the thyroid ratio, which is

956
00:41:24,750 --> 00:41:26,833
 kind of fun to see that.

957
00:41:27,791 --> 00:41:31,583
 And to me, that's where the rubber hits

958
00:41:31,583 --> 00:41:34,583
 the road is really relates to a famous

959
00:41:34,583 --> 00:41:37,166
 quote by, at least I think it's famous, a

960
00:41:37,166 --> 00:41:40,500
 quote by Mark Hyman about stress.

961
00:41:42,166 --> 00:41:46,708
 Stress is the body's inability to make

962
00:41:46,708 --> 00:41:50,958
 energy for the mind to

963
00:41:50,958 --> 00:41:52,541
 respond to its environment.

964
00:41:53,625 --> 00:41:54,791
 I think it's one of the most profound

965
00:41:54,791 --> 00:41:57,666
 definitions of what stress really is.

966
00:41:58,416 --> 00:42:00,333
 And what we've got to be able to do is

967
00:42:00,333 --> 00:42:04,500
 when you have stress in your world, I

968
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:05,416
 guarantee you, you're going to have

969
00:42:05,416 --> 00:42:06,958
 oxidative stress in your body.

970
00:42:08,083 --> 00:42:10,541
 So then we're into functional hypoxia.

971
00:42:11,125 --> 00:42:12,750
 Suddenly the oxygen is not available to

972
00:42:12,750 --> 00:42:13,625
 be turned into water.

973
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,083
 We can't make energy.

974
00:42:15,833 --> 00:42:17,666
 And then that's when all the symptoms

975
00:42:17,666 --> 00:42:20,791
 begin to surface, whether it's toxic

976
00:42:20,791 --> 00:42:22,666
 symptoms, pathogenic

977
00:42:22,666 --> 00:42:24,958
 symptoms, heavy metal symptoms.

978
00:42:25,166 --> 00:42:26,916
 That's when everything begins to flourish

979
00:42:26,916 --> 00:42:28,375
 is when we can't make the

980
00:42:28,375 --> 00:42:29,625
 requisite amount of energy.

981
00:42:30,333 --> 00:42:33,583
 And so when you look at a hair test and

982
00:42:33,583 --> 00:42:35,708
 you see this erratic picture, which is

983
00:42:35,708 --> 00:42:36,750
 very often the case,

984
00:42:38,625 --> 00:42:39,416
 what you really know is

985
00:42:39,416 --> 00:42:40,583
 that person's under stress.

986
00:42:41,583 --> 00:42:42,416
 Can they make energy?

987
00:42:42,875 --> 00:42:43,625
 Most can't.

988
00:42:43,875 --> 00:42:45,000
 How can we solve that?

989
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:47,291
 That's what the root cause protocol is

990
00:42:47,291 --> 00:42:50,708
 all about is how do we reignite the

991
00:42:50,708 --> 00:42:52,625
 ability to make the energy so we can

992
00:42:52,625 --> 00:42:55,208
 respond to the stress and not resilience

993
00:42:55,208 --> 00:42:56,791
 in the face of that stress.

994
00:42:57,375 --> 00:42:57,666
 Perfect.

995
00:42:58,083 --> 00:42:59,833
 Molly, I could talk about

996
00:42:59,833 --> 00:43:01,541
 biochemistry with you all day.

997
00:43:02,041 --> 00:43:05,041
 However, I have a feeling the audience

998
00:43:05,041 --> 00:43:06,625
 would like something

999
00:43:06,625 --> 00:43:08,291
 maybe a little more practical.

1000
00:43:08,583 --> 00:43:10,791
 So I'd love it if we could sort of maybe

1001
00:43:10,791 --> 00:43:13,500
 dig more into what you're probably most

1002
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:16,708
 well known for, which is really your root

1003
00:43:16,708 --> 00:43:20,000
 cause protocol, which you've developed on

1004
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,541
 sort of the back end of the research that

1005
00:43:22,541 --> 00:43:24,500
 you've done for the last well, nearly two

1006
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:25,541
 decades at this point.

1007
00:43:27,041 --> 00:43:28,875
 Could you walk us through the protocol?

1008
00:43:28,875 --> 00:43:30,666
 I've got a bunch of questions of my own,

1009
00:43:30,666 --> 00:43:33,583
 but which I'll interject, and I'll

1010
00:43:33,583 --> 00:43:34,291
 interject along the

1011
00:43:34,291 --> 00:43:35,458
 way when they come up.

1012
00:43:35,958 --> 00:43:38,541
 But in a nutshell, how is your approach

1013
00:43:38,541 --> 00:43:40,000
 to helping people overcome

1014
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,166
 various health challenges?

1015
00:43:42,041 --> 00:43:42,875
 Well, working.

1016
00:43:43,666 --> 00:43:46,041
 You know, having come out of the

1017
00:43:46,041 --> 00:43:47,833
 conventional medical model,

1018
00:43:48,791 --> 00:43:50,916
 where there's disease everywhere.

1019
00:43:51,833 --> 00:43:55,583
 And I was involved in doing forecasts of

1020
00:43:55,583 --> 00:43:56,958
 where was where were the

1021
00:43:56,958 --> 00:43:58,583
 disease indexes going to go?

1022
00:43:59,125 --> 00:44:00,416
 And they were all hockey

1023
00:44:00,416 --> 00:44:02,291
 sticks waiting to take off.

1024
00:44:03,208 --> 00:44:04,208
 I realized that there was something

1025
00:44:04,208 --> 00:44:06,583
 fundamentally wrong or

1026
00:44:06,583 --> 00:44:07,541
 something misunderstood.

1027
00:44:08,291 --> 00:44:10,750
 And so that's what really pulled me into

1028
00:44:10,750 --> 00:44:13,708
 this whole quest of, so how are we really

1029
00:44:13,708 --> 00:44:16,958
 designed to work as a species

1030
00:44:18,583 --> 00:44:23,000
 and I started out focusing on magnesium

1031
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,750
 because it's the first

1032
00:44:24,750 --> 00:44:26,041
 mineral lost to stress.

1033
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,500
 And I was influenced by Carolyn Dean and

1034
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:34,333
 Mildred Sealeag and Gene Durlock and a

1035
00:44:34,333 --> 00:44:37,416
 number of other famous researchers who

1036
00:44:37,416 --> 00:44:38,791
 were able to connect the dots that

1037
00:44:38,791 --> 00:44:41,125
 magnesium is the first to go, quickly

1038
00:44:41,125 --> 00:44:42,291
 followed by the B vitamins.

1039
00:44:42,666 --> 00:44:44,541
 We're under stress because they're water

1040
00:44:44,541 --> 00:44:46,958
 soluble and they disappear very quickly.

1041
00:44:48,666 --> 00:44:52,500
 And so that morphed into trying to

1042
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:53,500
 understand, well, what are

1043
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:54,833
 the biggest sources of stress?

1044
00:44:55,583 --> 00:44:58,500
 And then I find out that there was an

1045
00:44:58,500 --> 00:45:00,875
 article by an Italian team of researchers

1046
00:45:00,875 --> 00:45:05,250
 that revealed that iron stress is the

1047
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:06,666
 greatest stress on planet earth.

1048
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:08,666
 I went, wait a minute.

1049
00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:11,291
 And then I began to sync it up with the

1050
00:45:11,291 --> 00:45:14,000
 research about the great oxygen event.

1051
00:45:14,958 --> 00:45:16,541
 So I got iron and oxygen.

1052
00:45:17,958 --> 00:45:22,125
 And then I really began to delve into, so

1053
00:45:22,125 --> 00:45:23,250
 how do we stop that?

1054
00:45:24,333 --> 00:45:25,000
 And it's copper.

1055
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:27,125
 Back to our earlier discussion.

1056
00:45:28,666 --> 00:45:30,958
 Copper, when it's bioavailable, when it's

1057
00:45:30,958 --> 00:45:33,291
 usable, when it's attached to its

1058
00:45:33,291 --> 00:45:38,500
 appropriate spectrum of enzymes, is able

1059
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:40,833
 to neutralize the

1060
00:45:40,833 --> 00:45:42,833
 static and create the energy.

1061
00:45:46,375 --> 00:45:49,583
 And so I set out to, so how do we make

1062
00:45:49,583 --> 00:45:50,458
 copper bioavailable?

1063
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,291
 We got to have ceruleal plasma.

1064
00:45:53,125 --> 00:45:55,166
 And I was reading an article

1065
00:45:55,166 --> 00:45:58,791
 by Ray Peat, who's recognized

1066
00:45:59,916 --> 00:46:01,375
 since passed on, unfortunately.

1067
00:46:01,833 --> 00:46:02,666
 Yeah, yeah, right.

1068
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,625
 But this goes back 10 years ago.

1069
00:46:06,166 --> 00:46:06,791
 And it was a wonderful

1070
00:46:06,791 --> 00:46:08,625
 article about iron overload.

1071
00:46:09,583 --> 00:46:11,000
 He wrote several articles, but this one

1072
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,291
 particularly was

1073
00:46:12,291 --> 00:46:13,916
 focusing on iron overload.

1074
00:46:14,791 --> 00:46:16,750
 And at the end, towards the end, he said,

1075
00:46:16,750 --> 00:46:19,208
 "To my knowledge, no one has ever

1076
00:46:19,208 --> 00:46:22,791
 developed a recipe to increase the

1077
00:46:22,791 --> 00:46:24,375
 production of ceruleal plasma."

1078
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,000
 That was a red flag

1079
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:28,958
 in front of this bull.

1080
00:46:28,958 --> 00:46:30,208
 I said, "Well, that's

1081
00:46:30,208 --> 00:46:30,916
 what I'm going to do.

1082
00:46:30,916 --> 00:46:33,000
 I'm going to create that recipe."

1083
00:46:34,125 --> 00:46:38,041
 And at the beginning, I knew that it was

1084
00:46:38,041 --> 00:46:39,500
 going to be important to have things to

1085
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:42,208
 stop doing and start doing, in large part

1086
00:46:42,208 --> 00:46:44,333
 because of a conversation I had with my

1087
00:46:44,333 --> 00:46:46,000
 oldest son, who was an engineer.

1088
00:46:46,958 --> 00:46:48,791
 He said, "Dad, you got to

1089
00:46:48,791 --> 00:46:50,500
 tell people what to stop doing.

1090
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:51,041
 You got to tell them

1091
00:46:51,041 --> 00:46:51,833
 what to start doing."

1092
00:46:51,833 --> 00:46:54,208
 I went, "Oh, okay, stops and starts."

1093
00:46:54,875 --> 00:46:58,958
 And so at the beginning, there were two

1094
00:46:58,958 --> 00:47:01,166
 stops and two starts.

1095
00:47:02,541 --> 00:47:05,875
 And the two key principle stops were stop

1096
00:47:05,875 --> 00:47:07,041
 taking iron supplements

1097
00:47:07,750 --> 00:47:09,125
 and stop taking vitamin D.

1098
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:11,916
 You can imagine the

1099
00:47:11,916 --> 00:47:14,583
 heretical stance I was taking.

1100
00:47:15,458 --> 00:47:18,708
 But go ahead.

1101
00:47:19,458 --> 00:47:21,125
 Sorry, I was just going to say, what for

1102
00:47:21,125 --> 00:47:23,041
 the audience is the issue there with

1103
00:47:23,041 --> 00:47:23,958
 vitamin D specifically?

1104
00:47:24,875 --> 00:47:27,875
 Well, it's just what we're proposing is a

1105
00:47:27,875 --> 00:47:31,500
 balanced blend through catholic oil to

1106
00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:33,875
 get both retinol and vitamin D.

1107
00:47:34,541 --> 00:47:36,041
 Don't take a vitamin D

1108
00:47:36,041 --> 00:47:38,208
 supplement standing alone.

1109
00:47:39,083 --> 00:47:39,958
 In our solution.

1110
00:47:39,958 --> 00:47:41,458
 Yeah, it's just not an advisable.

1111
00:47:41,708 --> 00:47:47,708
 And there's a whole masterclass that I

1112
00:47:47,708 --> 00:47:50,083
 have on the downside of vitamin D.

1113
00:47:50,416 --> 00:47:51,500
 The people are

1114
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:53,625
 welcome to purchase online.

1115
00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:56,791
 It's not very expensive, but it goes into

1116
00:47:57,041 --> 00:47:58,958
 about an hour and a half of, "Here's what

1117
00:47:58,958 --> 00:48:00,375
 you don't know about vitamin D."

1118
00:48:00,375 --> 00:48:01,916
 There's a whole other side to it.

1119
00:48:02,791 --> 00:48:07,833
 And so it's evolved over the, I guess,

1120
00:48:08,083 --> 00:48:09,666
 probably 10, 12 years.

1121
00:48:10,125 --> 00:48:11,875
 It's evolved into about a

1122
00:48:11,875 --> 00:48:14,916
 dozen stops and a dozen starts.

1123
00:48:16,125 --> 00:48:18,750
 And for those who are interested, just go

1124
00:48:18,750 --> 00:48:24,125
 to the website, rcp123.org.

1125
00:48:25,083 --> 00:48:26,666
 Go to the resources tab.

1126
00:48:27,458 --> 00:48:29,708
 And then there's a starter guide.

1127
00:48:31,375 --> 00:48:35,458
 It's the latest version of our getting

1128
00:48:35,458 --> 00:48:36,875
 people started on the root

1129
00:48:36,875 --> 00:48:39,708
 cause protocol that is printable.

1130
00:48:40,125 --> 00:48:42,583
 You can put it up on your fridge or

1131
00:48:42,583 --> 00:48:44,208
 wherever you want to post it

1132
00:48:44,208 --> 00:48:45,500
 so you can keep track of it.

1133
00:48:45,916 --> 00:48:48,958
 But all you have to do is donate your

1134
00:48:48,958 --> 00:48:51,125
 email address and we'll send you the

1135
00:48:51,125 --> 00:48:54,500
 record of the guide itself.

1136
00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:56,250
 And it's really been met

1137
00:48:56,250 --> 00:48:59,000
 with a lot of gratitude.

1138
00:48:59,416 --> 00:49:00,833
 A lot of people are very grateful for it.

1139
00:49:01,583 --> 00:49:05,000
 And it lays out not just the stops and

1140
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,833
 starts, but there's a schedule.

1141
00:49:07,250 --> 00:49:08,125
 What should you do when?

1142
00:49:09,208 --> 00:49:09,958
 And it answers some

1143
00:49:09,958 --> 00:49:11,083
 of the basic questions.

1144
00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:14,000
 There are other resources.

1145
00:49:14,291 --> 00:49:15,916
 You can get the RCP

1146
00:49:15,916 --> 00:49:18,791
 handbook, which is 84 pages long.

1147
00:49:19,333 --> 00:49:20,916
 So the starter guide is 12 pages.

1148
00:49:21,208 --> 00:49:22,166
 There's an 84 page.

1149
00:49:22,458 --> 00:49:23,791
 These are both free.

1150
00:49:24,208 --> 00:49:24,791
 There's no charge.

1151
00:49:25,333 --> 00:49:28,041
 We're just, we're giving away the answer.

1152
00:49:29,041 --> 00:49:31,250
 And it just takes

1153
00:49:31,250 --> 00:49:33,208
 discipline to work with it.

1154
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:36,250
 And it takes a willingness to step out of

1155
00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:38,583
 the box of convention that

1156
00:49:38,583 --> 00:49:40,416
 tells you do this, do that.

1157
00:49:40,833 --> 00:49:43,250
 When in fact, no, you don't, you don't

1158
00:49:43,250 --> 00:49:44,500
 want to take ascorbic acid.

1159
00:49:44,958 --> 00:49:46,208
 You don't want to take calcium.

1160
00:49:46,666 --> 00:49:49,000
 You don't want to take vitamin D alone.

1161
00:49:49,958 --> 00:49:50,500
 Okay.

1162
00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:52,041
 To take a kind of oil.

1163
00:49:52,541 --> 00:49:54,375
 And then the flip side being, it's

1164
00:49:54,375 --> 00:49:56,291
 important to take whole food, vitamin C.

1165
00:49:56,625 --> 00:49:59,166
 It's important to take magnesium and make

1166
00:49:59,166 --> 00:50:00,791
 sure you've got minerals in your water

1167
00:50:00,791 --> 00:50:02,375
 and so on and so forth.

1168
00:50:03,375 --> 00:50:06,375
 And what we found, it's

1169
00:50:06,375 --> 00:50:07,166
 absolutely fascinating.

1170
00:50:07,791 --> 00:50:09,416
 People who just do the stops,

1171
00:50:10,791 --> 00:50:13,000
 when they do those dozen or so stops,

1172
00:50:13,291 --> 00:50:14,416
 they find that they

1173
00:50:14,416 --> 00:50:15,500
 actually start to feel better.

1174
00:50:16,625 --> 00:50:18,291
 And then as they start to adopt, we have

1175
00:50:18,291 --> 00:50:22,083
 a phased introduction of the starts.

1176
00:50:23,791 --> 00:50:26,958
 That's when the magic starts to happen.

1177
00:50:28,041 --> 00:50:29,333
 And it's across the board.

1178
00:50:29,666 --> 00:50:33,916
 It's, you know, the whole concept of the

1179
00:50:33,916 --> 00:50:36,583
 root cause protocol is profiled in my

1180
00:50:36,583 --> 00:50:38,500
 book, Cure Your Tea.

1181
00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:43,041
 And again, the basis of that is there's

1182
00:50:43,041 --> 00:50:46,458
 20,000 symptoms that are

1183
00:50:46,458 --> 00:50:47,833
 profiled in the Merck manual.

1184
00:50:48,833 --> 00:50:51,791
 That that's the Bible of medicine is the

1185
00:50:51,791 --> 00:50:54,125
 Merck manual and the description of all

1186
00:50:54,125 --> 00:50:55,958
 those 20,000 problems.

1187
00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:57,708
 But what do they all begin with?

1188
00:50:58,583 --> 00:50:59,458
 Oxidative stress.

1189
00:51:00,541 --> 00:51:01,583
 The oxygen is not

1190
00:51:01,583 --> 00:51:02,708
 being turned into water.

1191
00:51:03,208 --> 00:51:05,500
 And when that happens, it sets up, it

1192
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:07,125
 sets the stage for symptoms.

1193
00:51:07,708 --> 00:51:09,541
 And depending upon where it's happening,

1194
00:51:09,541 --> 00:51:12,208
 whether it's in your mind or in, or your

1195
00:51:12,208 --> 00:51:14,125
 brain, I should say, or your kidney or

1196
00:51:14,125 --> 00:51:16,833
 your elbow or wherever it happens to be.

1197
00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:19,708
 And it's called something different in

1198
00:51:19,708 --> 00:51:21,166
 the Merck manual, but

1199
00:51:21,166 --> 00:51:23,166
 it's all one origin.

1200
00:51:24,375 --> 00:51:29,250
 And it's the three ring circus of the

1201
00:51:29,250 --> 00:51:34,041
 world as I know it, is copper and iron

1202
00:51:34,041 --> 00:51:37,208
 and oxygen, not playing well together.

1203
00:51:37,833 --> 00:51:39,791
 And when they don't, they create this

1204
00:51:39,791 --> 00:51:42,000
 spectrum disorder that

1205
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,958
 we call chronic disease.

1206
00:51:44,708 --> 00:51:46,375
 And so the RCP is really

1207
00:51:46,375 --> 00:51:49,750
 designed to empower people to

1208
00:51:51,458 --> 00:51:53,791
 take control of their situation.

1209
00:51:54,458 --> 00:51:55,041
 And we have

1210
00:51:55,041 --> 00:51:57,916
 recommendations about an ancestral diet.

1211
00:51:58,250 --> 00:52:00,416
 We don't get into the the fevered pitch

1212
00:52:00,416 --> 00:52:03,375
 of ketosis versus paleo versus whatever,

1213
00:52:04,083 --> 00:52:06,625
 you know, follow the tenets of Weston A.

1214
00:52:06,625 --> 00:52:06,833
 Price.

1215
00:52:07,416 --> 00:52:11,375
 He was a very brilliant scientist, gifted

1216
00:52:11,375 --> 00:52:14,000
 dentist, but he was a very, very profound

1217
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,000
 scientist who studied what, what did the

1218
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,166
 original communities

1219
00:52:18,166 --> 00:52:20,625
 eat to have perfect teeth?

1220
00:52:21,666 --> 00:52:22,583
 And why was he

1221
00:52:22,583 --> 00:52:23,916
 obsessed with perfect teeth?

1222
00:52:24,333 --> 00:52:25,583
 Because he knew that

1223
00:52:25,583 --> 00:52:27,958
 when we're a little fetus,

1224
00:52:29,125 --> 00:52:33,375
 we start out with 32 buds and the 32 buds

1225
00:52:33,375 --> 00:52:38,666
 split and become 64 buds and 32 become

1226
00:52:38,666 --> 00:52:40,541
 our teeth and the

1227
00:52:40,541 --> 00:52:42,666
 other 32 become our spine.

1228
00:52:43,583 --> 00:52:45,500
 And he knew that perfect teeth and

1229
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:47,458
 perfect spine and perfect health.

1230
00:52:48,125 --> 00:52:50,500
 And so I just think it's important for

1231
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:52,625
 people to realize that there is this

1232
00:52:52,625 --> 00:52:55,166
 legacy of recommendations out there.

1233
00:52:56,041 --> 00:52:57,750
 And we can get into all sorts of

1234
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:58,916
 religious wars about

1235
00:52:58,916 --> 00:53:01,500
 nuances of the of the food system.

1236
00:53:01,958 --> 00:53:02,541
 The manisha.

1237
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,833
 Yeah, it's exhausting, as you well know.

1238
00:53:06,208 --> 00:53:08,708
 But I think the goal is to try to

1239
00:53:08,708 --> 00:53:11,625
 simplify this message and simplify the

1240
00:53:11,625 --> 00:53:15,125
 process so that people can in fact regain

1241
00:53:15,125 --> 00:53:17,583
 mastery of their physiology

1242
00:53:17,583 --> 00:53:20,583
 as we as we are designed to do.

1243
00:53:20,583 --> 00:53:22,583
 I believe that we are sovereign

1244
00:53:22,583 --> 00:53:25,625
 individuals and we're meant to have this

1245
00:53:25,625 --> 00:53:28,291
 independence of action,

1246
00:53:29,083 --> 00:53:29,916
 independence of thought.

1247
00:53:30,875 --> 00:53:34,708
 And when you eat the right foods and you

1248
00:53:34,708 --> 00:53:38,541
 have the right supplements, it enlivens

1249
00:53:38,541 --> 00:53:41,916
 the innate healer within us.

1250
00:53:42,875 --> 00:53:45,333
 And I'm not to say that, not suggesting

1251
00:53:45,333 --> 00:53:46,750
 that we no longer have stress.

1252
00:53:47,125 --> 00:53:48,541
 We will always have stress

1253
00:53:48,541 --> 00:53:50,375
 as long as we're above ground.

1254
00:53:51,208 --> 00:53:53,250
 But what we can do is neutralize that

1255
00:53:53,250 --> 00:53:55,083
 stress with a level of

1256
00:53:55,083 --> 00:53:57,041
 proficiency and efficiency.

1257
00:53:57,750 --> 00:54:00,416
 And when the minerals are optimized, and

1258
00:54:00,416 --> 00:54:04,916
 we've got an ability to curb the stress

1259
00:54:04,916 --> 00:54:06,625
 that's around us, whether it would be

1260
00:54:06,625 --> 00:54:08,750
 environmental stress, physical stress,

1261
00:54:09,291 --> 00:54:11,083
 biological, I mean, there's many

1262
00:54:11,083 --> 00:54:13,750
 different forms, but the body has this

1263
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:17,500
 capacity to heal itself under all those

1264
00:54:17,500 --> 00:54:18,375
 types of conditions.

1265
00:54:19,666 --> 00:54:23,166
 Yeah, no, it's a very adapted, sort of

1266
00:54:23,166 --> 00:54:24,916
 regulating itself and re-finding

1267
00:54:24,916 --> 00:54:26,875
 homeostasis when the

1268
00:54:26,875 --> 00:54:28,541
 opportunity presents itself.

1269
00:54:28,791 --> 00:54:31,041
 But as you've alluded to multiple times,

1270
00:54:31,041 --> 00:54:34,708
 the moment there are breaks in

1271
00:54:34,708 --> 00:54:37,500
 mitochondrial efficiency or high levels

1272
00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:39,000
 of oxidative stress in the body, then

1273
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,458
 it's essentially almost, well, very

1274
00:54:41,458 --> 00:54:43,041
 literally putting out fires.

1275
00:54:43,333 --> 00:54:46,041
 And it's not in a position to really

1276
00:54:46,041 --> 00:54:49,583
 regain its fundamental structure.

1277
00:54:51,083 --> 00:54:52,416
 So essentially what you're saying is that

1278
00:54:52,416 --> 00:54:55,333
 it's a tad more complicated than just

1279
00:54:55,333 --> 00:54:57,458
 popping a couple of capsules of copper

1280
00:54:57,500 --> 00:54:59,583
 glycinate every day, but it's still very

1281
00:54:59,583 --> 00:55:01,208
 doable for the average person.

1282
00:55:04,625 --> 00:55:06,500
 Just a sort of a quick tangent, speaking

1283
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:09,333
 of healing modalities, what are your

1284
00:55:09,333 --> 00:55:11,416
 thoughts on molecular hypogem?

1285
00:55:11,708 --> 00:55:14,666
 It's doing the rounds at the moment, and

1286
00:55:14,666 --> 00:55:20,000
 it does seem to have quite a lot, it does

1287
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,583
 seem to be quite effective, both from

1288
00:55:22,583 --> 00:55:24,208
 supporting mitochondrial function

1289
00:55:25,041 --> 00:55:27,500
 directly and through its sort of actions

1290
00:55:27,500 --> 00:55:29,041
 as a sort of selective antioxidant.

1291
00:55:29,833 --> 00:55:31,458
 Do you feel that that

1292
00:55:31,458 --> 00:55:33,958
 potentially has a place in,

1293
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:36,875
 well, either in your

1294
00:55:36,875 --> 00:55:38,666
 protocol or in health in general?

1295
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,333
 That's a wonderful question.

1296
00:55:41,083 --> 00:55:44,666
 And I'm often asked about molecular

1297
00:55:44,666 --> 00:55:47,875
 hydrogen or ozone therapy or other

1298
00:55:47,875 --> 00:55:50,500
 add-ons, if you will.

1299
00:55:51,125 --> 00:55:52,291
 I tend to take a very

1300
00:55:52,291 --> 00:55:53,291
 conservative stance.

1301
00:55:55,125 --> 00:55:57,750
 Most of those modalities are designed by

1302
00:55:57,750 --> 00:56:00,625
 scientists or practitioners who have no

1303
00:56:00,625 --> 00:56:04,708
 deep knowledge of copper metabolism and

1304
00:56:04,708 --> 00:56:09,041
 what the endearing role

1305
00:56:09,041 --> 00:56:10,291
 of copper is on the planet.

1306
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,666
 As it relates to the hydrogen,

1307
00:56:13,666 --> 00:56:15,916
 what's the primary source of hydrogen

1308
00:56:15,916 --> 00:56:18,375
 protons in our body?

1309
00:56:18,875 --> 00:56:19,916
 It's the mitochondria.

1310
00:56:21,541 --> 00:56:23,875
 Complexes 1, 3, and 4 are pumping

1311
00:56:23,875 --> 00:56:27,000
 hydrogen constantly, right?

1312
00:56:27,708 --> 00:56:28,375
 That's their job.

1313
00:56:29,375 --> 00:56:32,916
 Now, what most people don't know, I think

1314
00:56:32,916 --> 00:56:35,375
 the literature is very selective about

1315
00:56:35,375 --> 00:56:38,791
 what it reveals, but complex 1, 3, 4, and

1316
00:56:38,791 --> 00:56:40,583
 5 are all copper dependent.

1317
00:56:42,833 --> 00:56:46,333
 I mean, 99% of articles will say that

1318
00:56:46,333 --> 00:56:49,375
 it's only complex 4, but there's

1319
00:56:49,375 --> 00:56:52,541
 compelling research around complexes 1,

1320
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,750
 3, and 5 that no one likes to talk about

1321
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:58,541
 because it begins to spoil the show.

1322
00:56:59,375 --> 00:56:59,541
 Yeah,

1323
00:57:01,083 --> 00:57:01,291
 exactly.

1324
00:57:01,666 --> 00:57:06,208
 And so I'm well aware of in a lab setting

1325
00:57:06,208 --> 00:57:07,375
 that hydrogen can

1326
00:57:07,375 --> 00:57:09,416
 neutralize the hydroxyl radical.

1327
00:57:10,875 --> 00:57:13,250
 I think it's a little bit of a stretch to

1328
00:57:13,250 --> 00:57:14,750
 say it's going to happen in a biological

1329
00:57:14,750 --> 00:57:16,791
 system because we happen to put

1330
00:57:16,791 --> 00:57:19,250
 hydrogenated water into our body.

1331
00:57:20,750 --> 00:57:24,625
 My limitation is I'm not a

1332
00:57:24,625 --> 00:57:26,750
 chemist, not a biochemist.

1333
00:57:26,750 --> 00:57:28,458
 I don't pretend to be a biochemist.

1334
00:57:28,791 --> 00:57:30,458
 I'm trying to think

1335
00:57:30,458 --> 00:57:31,916
 like our ancestors did.

1336
00:57:32,333 --> 00:57:37,125
 How do I maintain a level of vitality

1337
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:39,458
 through my diet, through my

1338
00:57:39,458 --> 00:57:41,958
 self-reoutine, manage my stress, both

1339
00:57:41,958 --> 00:57:44,708
 what I can control in the outside world

1340
00:57:44,708 --> 00:57:46,666
 and my inside world and

1341
00:57:46,666 --> 00:57:48,041
 just go about my business.

1342
00:57:48,791 --> 00:57:52,458
 I get nervous when people start to reach

1343
00:57:52,458 --> 00:57:55,375
 out for different modalities because it

1344
00:57:55,375 --> 00:57:57,166
 sets the stage for two things.

1345
00:57:57,166 --> 00:58:00,208
 One, I don't think we fully know what

1346
00:58:00,208 --> 00:58:02,541
 those hydrogen protons are doing.

1347
00:58:03,583 --> 00:58:08,541
 And the other side of it is when you

1348
00:58:08,541 --> 00:58:13,208
 start to adopt all these different

1349
00:58:13,208 --> 00:58:15,708
 approaches, basically what you're telling

1350
00:58:15,708 --> 00:58:17,750
 the body is, "I don't really trust you.

1351
00:58:18,375 --> 00:58:19,000
 I don't think you really

1352
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:19,708
 know what you're doing.

1353
00:58:20,291 --> 00:58:23,291
 Let me give you an inducement.

1354
00:58:23,291 --> 00:58:24,500
 Let me enhance what you're doing."

1355
00:58:25,208 --> 00:58:26,583
 And it sounds silly,

1356
00:58:26,583 --> 00:58:27,583
 but I think the body says,

1357
00:58:28,583 --> 00:58:30,833
 "Well, why are you asking me to get

1358
00:58:30,833 --> 00:58:31,708
 involved if you think

1359
00:58:31,708 --> 00:58:32,416
 you know the answer?"

1360
00:58:32,916 --> 00:58:35,583
 And the problem we've got is that you and

1361
00:58:35,583 --> 00:58:37,708
 I are engaged in what I would call a very

1362
00:58:37,708 --> 00:58:41,083
 switched-on conversation, exchanging

1363
00:58:41,083 --> 00:58:42,458
 information at about

1364
00:58:42,458 --> 00:58:44,250
 2,000 bits per second.

1365
00:58:44,708 --> 00:58:45,791
 That's pretty fast.

1366
00:58:47,666 --> 00:58:50,041
 The part of the brain that runs our body,

1367
00:58:50,500 --> 00:58:53,041
 the hypothalamus, thinks a million times

1368
00:58:53,041 --> 00:58:54,375
 faster than you and I can talk.

1369
00:58:55,708 --> 00:58:59,791
 And I think it's a very bold thought to

1370
00:58:59,791 --> 00:59:01,500
 say, "Well, I read this article on the

1371
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:03,916
 internet and I need to do this."

1372
00:59:04,416 --> 00:59:07,291
 I think the body knows what to do.

1373
00:59:07,875 --> 00:59:12,333
 It lacks the nutrients to make the energy

1374
00:59:12,333 --> 00:59:14,333
 to run the immune system

1375
00:59:14,333 --> 00:59:16,166
 to regulate homeostasis.

1376
00:59:17,291 --> 00:59:18,791
 And I just take a very conservative

1377
00:59:18,791 --> 00:59:22,250
 stance that I'd rather let the body run

1378
00:59:22,250 --> 00:59:23,916
 itself than me start.

1379
00:59:24,250 --> 00:59:26,583
 And again, there are

1380
00:59:26,583 --> 00:59:28,250
 recommendations in the RCP.

1381
00:59:29,166 --> 00:59:29,875
 But these are,

1382
00:59:31,333 --> 00:59:33,875
 the stops are to eliminate what never

1383
00:59:33,875 --> 00:59:35,500
 existed in the food system before.

1384
00:59:36,166 --> 00:59:38,458
 And the starts are to try to restore

1385
00:59:38,458 --> 00:59:41,541
 normalcy and sanity in the food system

1386
00:59:41,541 --> 00:59:44,333
 that our ancestors had full advantage of.

1387
00:59:44,791 --> 00:59:47,666
 That's very basic.

1388
00:59:47,958 --> 00:59:48,833
 And I think it's also,

1389
00:59:50,416 --> 00:59:53,166
 we could easily add 50

1390
00:59:53,166 --> 00:59:55,291
 other items to the RCP.

1391
00:59:56,083 --> 00:59:57,500
 Well, then we have a compliance issue.

1392
00:59:58,458 --> 01:00:00,750
 Just getting people to do 12 things.

1393
01:00:00,750 --> 01:00:01,208
 The basics.

1394
01:00:01,666 --> 01:00:02,625
 Yeah, just doing the basics.

1395
01:00:03,250 --> 01:00:05,875
 And so there's a trade-off.

1396
01:00:06,625 --> 01:00:10,666
 And so I recognize the popularity of the

1397
01:00:10,666 --> 01:00:14,250
 hydrogen water, but I had the good

1398
01:00:14,250 --> 01:00:18,791
 fortune of spending a day with a world

1399
01:00:18,791 --> 01:00:20,750
 renowned consultant to

1400
01:00:20,750 --> 01:00:21,875
 the natural food industry.

1401
01:00:23,166 --> 01:00:26,125
 And during the course of that day,

1402
01:00:27,875 --> 01:00:29,083
 his first name was Michael.

1403
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:30,250
 He said morally,

1404
01:00:31,291 --> 01:00:32,000
 "People always ask

1405
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,583
 me, Michael, what's new?

1406
01:00:34,208 --> 01:00:34,833
 What's new?"

1407
01:00:35,291 --> 01:00:37,291
 And he said, "I've

1408
01:00:37,291 --> 01:00:39,458
 learned to ask what's enduring."

1409
01:00:40,708 --> 01:00:41,750
 And he said, "I would strongly

1410
01:00:43,375 --> 01:00:44,125
 advise you to start

1411
01:00:44,125 --> 01:00:45,375
 focusing on what's enduring."

1412
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,166
 And it was really out of that

1413
01:00:47,166 --> 01:00:50,416
 conversation that I stumbled into the

1414
01:00:50,416 --> 01:00:52,458
 research about the great oxygen event.

1415
01:00:53,250 --> 01:00:54,625
 And that completely changed my

1416
01:00:54,625 --> 01:00:58,541
 understanding of the problem and the

1417
01:00:58,541 --> 01:01:00,000
 realization of what

1418
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,833
 copper's role is on the planet.

1419
01:01:02,583 --> 01:01:05,791
 And I would argue that people relying on

1420
01:01:05,791 --> 01:01:07,625
 hydrogen water are

1421
01:01:07,625 --> 01:01:08,583
 probably copper deficient

1422
01:01:09,666 --> 01:01:12,041
 without the benefit of testing, because

1423
01:01:12,041 --> 01:01:15,958
 the copper knows how to pump hydrogen.

1424
01:01:17,125 --> 01:01:21,500
 The mechanism of making stomach acid, the

1425
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:24,500
 mechanism of recycling red blood cells,

1426
01:01:24,583 --> 01:01:26,541
 requires acidification.

1427
01:01:27,125 --> 01:01:27,500
 Well, that whole

1428
01:01:27,500 --> 01:01:29,041
 process is copper dependent.

1429
01:01:29,666 --> 01:01:30,291
 And what's it doing?

1430
01:01:30,500 --> 01:01:33,083
 It's pumping hydrogen into these vacuoles

1431
01:01:33,083 --> 01:01:35,750
 to allow change to take place.

1432
01:01:36,500 --> 01:01:37,833
 These hydrogen atoms

1433
01:01:37,833 --> 01:01:38,875
 don't come from Mars.

1434
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,791
 They're coming from copper enzymes that

1435
01:01:42,791 --> 01:01:44,750
 are designed through the

1436
01:01:44,750 --> 01:01:46,875
 ages to support our physiology.

1437
01:01:47,958 --> 01:01:50,250
 That's a very concise

1438
01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:51,458
 answer, not one I expected.

1439
01:01:51,750 --> 01:01:52,541
 So thank you.

1440
01:01:53,083 --> 01:01:55,208
 Morley, I've got some follow ups to you.

1441
01:01:55,208 --> 01:01:57,208
 Well, maybe some other viewpoints I'd

1442
01:01:57,208 --> 01:01:58,750
 love to get your opinion on.

1443
01:01:59,208 --> 01:02:00,958
 But before we get to that, all those

1444
01:02:00,958 --> 01:02:03,375
 particular viewpoints, I suppose I'd love

1445
01:02:03,375 --> 01:02:06,000
 to kind of get your thoughts on trauma

1446
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,625
 and the central nervous system and

1447
01:02:07,625 --> 01:02:09,083
 dysfunction there in general.

1448
01:02:10,333 --> 01:02:12,166
 It's something I'm starting to see more

1449
01:02:12,166 --> 01:02:14,291
 and more when I either work with people

1450
01:02:14,291 --> 01:02:17,208
 or, I suppose, myself as well, but the

1451
01:02:17,208 --> 01:02:20,791
 fact that people for the most part, when

1452
01:02:20,791 --> 01:02:22,916
 they're following a protocol, often make

1453
01:02:22,916 --> 01:02:25,000
 at least some liver improvement.

1454
01:02:25,625 --> 01:02:27,250
 But unless they actually start to deal

1455
01:02:27,250 --> 01:02:29,333
 with a lot of the emotional side of

1456
01:02:29,333 --> 01:02:31,291
 things, the past traumas they've been

1457
01:02:31,291 --> 01:02:33,958
 through, they never really start to heal.

1458
01:02:35,083 --> 01:02:36,125
 Could you weigh in here?

1459
01:02:36,125 --> 01:02:39,125
 Do you have any thoughts on any

1460
01:02:39,125 --> 01:02:42,250
 techniques that you feel are effective at

1461
01:02:42,250 --> 01:02:44,041
 helping people to overcome trauma,

1462
01:02:44,875 --> 01:02:45,833
 assuming you think it's

1463
01:02:45,833 --> 01:02:46,833
 an issue to begin with?

1464
01:02:47,208 --> 01:02:48,291
 Oh, it's very real.

1465
01:02:49,250 --> 01:02:50,291
 And again, I go back to

1466
01:02:50,291 --> 01:02:51,500
 my mentor, Rick Malter.

1467
01:02:52,166 --> 01:02:54,250
 He wanted to make sure that I understood

1468
01:02:54,250 --> 01:02:59,291
 that the hair test was a window into the

1469
01:02:59,291 --> 01:03:00,458
 person's stress profile.

1470
01:03:02,458 --> 01:03:03,833
 And very, very important.

1471
01:03:04,041 --> 01:03:05,000
 We're all under stress.

1472
01:03:06,791 --> 01:03:08,416
 You and I are both under stress.

1473
01:03:08,416 --> 01:03:10,500
 We're having a lovely conversation, but

1474
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:12,625
 everyone we know is under stress.

1475
01:03:13,166 --> 01:03:14,791
 Everyone we don't know is under stress

1476
01:03:14,791 --> 01:03:17,000
 because that's the human condition.

1477
01:03:18,125 --> 01:03:21,041
 And when I started this work many years

1478
01:03:21,041 --> 01:03:24,125
 ago, I was very Newtonian.

1479
01:03:25,625 --> 01:03:27,750
 I actually have a, my grandmother's

1480
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:29,708
 brother's name was Newton Matthews.

1481
01:03:31,208 --> 01:03:33,875
 Our ancestry is back in England.

1482
01:03:34,791 --> 01:03:37,000
 And family legend has it that we're

1483
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,833
 related to Sir Isaac Newton, although he

1484
01:03:39,833 --> 01:03:40,583
 didn't have any children.

1485
01:03:40,875 --> 01:03:43,375
 So it's one of his collab with brother or

1486
01:03:43,375 --> 01:03:44,041
 sister or something.

1487
01:03:44,458 --> 01:03:45,416
 Somewhere we're

1488
01:03:45,416 --> 01:03:47,291
 related to Sir Isaac Newton.

1489
01:03:47,291 --> 01:03:49,541
 But I was very Newtonian, in my view.

1490
01:03:49,958 --> 01:03:53,958
 There's some physical event missing.

1491
01:03:53,958 --> 01:03:55,041
 It's a nutrient.

1492
01:03:55,041 --> 01:03:55,791
 It's a vitamin.

1493
01:03:56,416 --> 01:03:57,791
 Something is not there.

1494
01:03:59,375 --> 01:04:00,458
 Over the course of 16

1495
01:04:00,458 --> 01:04:02,708
 years, I've become very quantum,

1496
01:04:03,875 --> 01:04:06,500
 realizing that at the very heart of all

1497
01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:11,083
 this physical imbalance is emotional

1498
01:04:11,083 --> 01:04:14,166
 unrest, which is very energetically

1499
01:04:14,166 --> 01:04:15,166
 driven, as you well know.

1500
01:04:16,166 --> 01:04:19,458
 And I think it's very, very

1501
01:04:19,458 --> 01:04:21,583
 important to address that.

1502
01:04:22,375 --> 01:04:23,333
 And so for years,

1503
01:04:23,333 --> 01:04:24,583
 we've been talking about

1504
01:04:25,666 --> 01:04:30,000
 the importance of dumping fear, because

1505
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,666
 that's the granddaddy emotion of all, is

1506
01:04:33,666 --> 01:04:35,541
 that when you have a chronic condition

1507
01:04:35,541 --> 01:04:39,500
 that doesn't resolve, doesn't respond to

1508
01:04:39,500 --> 01:04:41,958
 the recommended path, you

1509
01:04:41,958 --> 01:04:43,041
 begin to doubt yourself.

1510
01:04:44,458 --> 01:04:46,000
 And you begin to think, well, there must

1511
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,083
 be something wrong with my body, or I'm

1512
01:04:48,083 --> 01:04:50,458
 not doing it right, or I'm being punished

1513
01:04:50,458 --> 01:04:53,041
 by God, or something to those effects.

1514
01:04:53,916 --> 01:04:56,000
 And so that conjures up fear.

1515
01:04:56,958 --> 01:04:58,000
 And we spell it differently

1516
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,750
 in the RCP, F E hyphen, A R.

1517
01:05:02,541 --> 01:05:04,458
 And that way you see the symbol for iron.

1518
01:05:05,291 --> 01:05:07,083
 And when you're under stress,

1519
01:05:07,583 --> 01:05:10,375
 you become a magnet for iron.

1520
01:05:11,208 --> 01:05:13,833
 Now we've been saying this for years, but

1521
01:05:13,833 --> 01:05:16,500
 it's only been in the last month that I

1522
01:05:16,500 --> 01:05:17,750
 have definitive

1523
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:20,500
 physiological proof that it happens.

1524
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:24,250
 And there's an enzyme in our body

1525
01:05:25,833 --> 01:05:26,708
 that you may have heard

1526
01:05:26,708 --> 01:05:29,958
 of called furin, F U R I N.

1527
01:05:30,791 --> 01:05:31,958
 And it's what's called

1528
01:05:31,958 --> 01:05:33,500
 a protein convertase.

1529
01:05:34,416 --> 01:05:37,666
 It's a very ancient mechanism.

1530
01:05:39,291 --> 01:05:41,541
 It's not as old as ceruleoplasma, though.

1531
01:05:42,583 --> 01:05:44,833
 It's not as old as the PAM enzyme, which

1532
01:05:44,833 --> 01:05:46,208
 is a very powerful enzyme in

1533
01:05:46,208 --> 01:05:48,000
 our body for making change.

1534
01:05:49,166 --> 01:05:52,458
 But furin has a unique ability to

1535
01:05:52,458 --> 01:05:53,916
 activate the iron

1536
01:05:53,916 --> 01:05:55,958
 hormone called hepcidin.

1537
01:05:57,708 --> 01:05:59,333
 And now hepcidin is

1538
01:05:59,333 --> 01:06:02,416
 what I call, was not me.

1539
01:06:02,791 --> 01:06:04,250
 It's known as a negative

1540
01:06:04,250 --> 01:06:08,541
 regulator in iron metabolism.

1541
01:06:10,625 --> 01:06:14,500
 And ferrooxidase in the ceruleoplasmic

1542
01:06:14,500 --> 01:06:16,500
 enzyme, ceruleoplasmic proteins, excuse

1543
01:06:16,500 --> 01:06:17,583
 me, would be known as

1544
01:06:17,583 --> 01:06:18,541
 a positive regulator.

1545
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:24,125
 Well, looking back on our childhood, our

1546
01:06:24,125 --> 01:06:25,708
 parents were the positive

1547
01:06:25,708 --> 01:06:27,000
 regulators in our upbringing.

1548
01:06:27,041 --> 01:06:29,416
 A negative regulator

1549
01:06:29,416 --> 01:06:30,625
 would be a SWAT team.

1550
01:06:32,583 --> 01:06:36,125
 And what the world of convention wants us

1551
01:06:36,125 --> 01:06:37,791
 to believe is that SWAT teams are running

1552
01:06:37,791 --> 01:06:40,416
 iron metabolism and not our parents,

1553
01:06:41,041 --> 01:06:42,250
 which makes no sense at all.

1554
01:06:43,125 --> 01:06:44,666
 But the important thing to understand is

1555
01:06:44,666 --> 01:06:47,083
 that when hepcidin starts to flex its

1556
01:06:47,083 --> 01:06:52,875
 muscles, in response to furin enzyme that

1557
01:06:52,875 --> 01:06:56,875
 is triggered by stress, and the form of

1558
01:06:56,875 --> 01:06:59,583
 stress that triggers it the most is

1559
01:06:59,583 --> 01:07:03,166
 social defeat stress,

1560
01:07:03,708 --> 01:07:05,375
 otherwise known as PTSD.

1561
01:07:06,666 --> 01:07:08,000
 Go back five years ago.

1562
01:07:08,291 --> 01:07:11,250
 The world was engaged in PTSD.

1563
01:07:12,208 --> 01:07:12,666
 Just a bit.

1564
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:13,375
 Just a bit.

1565
01:07:13,958 --> 01:07:16,541
 And so furin was off the chart.

1566
01:07:18,083 --> 01:07:20,000
 Hepcidin off the chart.

1567
01:07:20,833 --> 01:07:23,041
 Iron regulation was completely gone.

1568
01:07:23,666 --> 01:07:25,541
 And so I renamed COVID.

1569
01:07:26,583 --> 01:07:30,125
 COV stands for Coppers Vanished.

1570
01:07:31,291 --> 01:07:33,833
 ID stands for Irons Disregulated.

1571
01:07:34,750 --> 01:07:36,291
 And what your listeners need to make sure

1572
01:07:36,291 --> 01:07:38,208
 they understand is that when copper is

1573
01:07:38,208 --> 01:07:41,041
 down, iron takes off inside the body.

1574
01:07:42,416 --> 01:07:42,833
 And so

1575
01:07:45,833 --> 01:07:50,958
 the mind and our psyche will convince us

1576
01:07:50,958 --> 01:07:53,208
 that we're under stress, which is only

1577
01:07:53,208 --> 01:07:53,750
 going to feed the

1578
01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:55,666
 problem of iron regulation.

1579
01:07:56,583 --> 01:07:59,000
 And so that's why dealing with the

1580
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,833
 emotional side of the equation is so

1581
01:08:01,833 --> 01:08:02,916
 important, which most

1582
01:08:02,916 --> 01:08:03,875
 people want to ignore.

1583
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:06,333
 They want to stay away from their

1584
01:08:06,333 --> 01:08:09,500
 psychological or emotional trauma.

1585
01:08:10,166 --> 01:08:11,166
 And I get that.

1586
01:08:11,166 --> 01:08:12,958
 We've all had some very severe trauma

1587
01:08:12,958 --> 01:08:14,833
 that we want to pretend didn't happen.

1588
01:08:15,541 --> 01:08:17,583
 But when you are able to engage in

1589
01:08:17,583 --> 01:08:21,208
 emotional release techniques, like motion

1590
01:08:21,208 --> 01:08:22,708
 code or body code,

1591
01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:25,791
 integrative processing technique or EFT,

1592
01:08:26,791 --> 01:08:30,250
 it's tremendously liberating because it

1593
01:08:30,250 --> 01:08:32,291
 releases the fear that

1594
01:08:32,291 --> 01:08:33,333
 you've done something wrong.

1595
01:08:34,250 --> 01:08:36,041
 And it then says, as long as you're in a

1596
01:08:36,041 --> 01:08:37,708
 state of fear, you're

1597
01:08:37,708 --> 01:08:38,708
 in a sympathetic state.

1598
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:41,500
 Well, guess what doesn't happen in a

1599
01:08:41,500 --> 01:08:42,541
 sympathetic nervous system?

1600
01:08:43,250 --> 01:08:43,458
 Healing.

1601
01:08:44,500 --> 01:08:46,583
 You can't heal and run from

1602
01:08:46,583 --> 01:08:47,958
 the bear at the same time.

1603
01:08:48,333 --> 01:08:49,125
 So you have to be in a

1604
01:08:49,125 --> 01:08:50,375
 parasympathetic state.

1605
01:08:51,083 --> 01:08:56,166
 And so that's the dilemma is we're living

1606
01:08:56,166 --> 01:08:59,291
 in a society where most people 24 seven

1607
01:08:59,291 --> 01:09:01,041
 are in sympathetic overdrive.

1608
01:09:02,500 --> 01:09:05,125
 And lurking in the background, this is

1609
01:09:05,125 --> 01:09:08,000
 enzyme that no one talks about.

1610
01:09:08,583 --> 01:09:09,000
 Furen.

1611
01:09:09,916 --> 01:09:11,583
 It's a very sophisticated audience who

1612
01:09:11,583 --> 01:09:12,541
 would know what that is.

1613
01:09:13,166 --> 01:09:14,916
 And then influencing

1614
01:09:14,916 --> 01:09:17,125
 hepsidin, very few people know about.

1615
01:09:17,708 --> 01:09:19,416
 But here's the most important part is

1616
01:09:19,416 --> 01:09:22,375
 when hepsidin is elevated and activated.

1617
01:09:24,125 --> 01:09:26,166
 Furetin is low because they

1618
01:09:26,166 --> 01:09:27,625
 ride on a sea salt together.

1619
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:31,000
 And so who taught me that?

1620
01:09:31,875 --> 01:09:32,333
 Douglas Kell.

1621
01:09:33,250 --> 01:09:34,916
 I was about to say because Furetin is an

1622
01:09:34,916 --> 01:09:37,208
 acute phase reaction, isn't it?

1623
01:09:37,208 --> 01:09:40,333
 So that would then make sense as to why

1624
01:09:40,333 --> 01:09:41,916
 it's an acute phase reactant, obviously.

1625
01:09:42,375 --> 01:09:42,791
 Exactly.

1626
01:09:43,541 --> 01:09:44,250
 Beautifully said.

1627
01:09:44,875 --> 01:09:47,666
 And so what's the one consistent mistake

1628
01:09:47,666 --> 01:09:49,750
 being made worldwide about Furetin?

1629
01:09:50,541 --> 01:09:51,625
 That low Furetin means

1630
01:09:51,625 --> 01:09:52,791
 you're not storing enough iron.

1631
01:09:53,166 --> 01:09:55,000
 You need more iron or an infusion.

1632
01:09:55,458 --> 01:09:57,000
 Why don't call them infusions anymore?

1633
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:57,708
 They're invasions.

1634
01:09:58,875 --> 01:10:01,666
 And it's a very serious problem on the

1635
01:10:01,666 --> 01:10:04,333
 planet that because people don't know

1636
01:10:04,333 --> 01:10:07,375
 that there's nine copper dependent

1637
01:10:07,375 --> 01:10:12,000
 enzymes to regulate the production and

1638
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,625
 the recycling of iron in the blood.

1639
01:10:15,875 --> 01:10:16,791
 And all we do is

1640
01:10:16,791 --> 01:10:18,375
 default to you need more iron.

1641
01:10:19,375 --> 01:10:21,750
 No consideration given to these nine

1642
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:22,500
 different expressions

1643
01:10:22,500 --> 01:10:23,625
 of miles per gallon.

1644
01:10:24,625 --> 01:10:26,916
 Because you can put, you know, if you're

1645
01:10:26,916 --> 01:10:28,708
 having trouble with your mileage,

1646
01:10:29,708 --> 01:10:31,458
 you can fill the car up with gas.

1647
01:10:32,375 --> 01:10:33,000
 And it's not going to

1648
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:34,083
 get better mileage, is it?

1649
01:10:35,083 --> 01:10:36,083
 You've got to change

1650
01:10:36,083 --> 01:10:37,666
 tire pressure, timing.

1651
01:10:38,208 --> 01:10:39,625
 You've got to change a lot of factors in

1652
01:10:39,625 --> 01:10:41,500
 the engine and in the car's performance

1653
01:10:41,500 --> 01:10:42,708
 to get better mileage.

1654
01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:45,541
 But throwing more gas in the

1655
01:10:45,541 --> 01:10:47,208
 car is not going to solve it.

1656
01:10:47,791 --> 01:10:50,125
 And that's the mentality of most

1657
01:10:50,416 --> 01:10:52,541
 practitioners, whether they're doctors or

1658
01:10:52,541 --> 01:10:55,416
 nutritionists or whoever, they have been

1659
01:10:55,416 --> 01:10:58,791
 taught singularly, you need more iron.

1660
01:10:59,541 --> 01:11:00,833
 It's like, really?

1661
01:11:01,333 --> 01:11:05,500
 That is, to me, that's the foundation of

1662
01:11:05,500 --> 01:11:08,625
 where the breakdown is in healing today,

1663
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:13,541
 is believing that dynamic that only iron

1664
01:11:13,541 --> 01:11:15,625
 will solve a low

1665
01:11:15,625 --> 01:11:17,625
 representation of iron in a blood test.

1666
01:11:18,041 --> 01:11:20,458
 When in fact, I did this just the other

1667
01:11:20,458 --> 01:11:22,000
 day, I was with a buddy of

1668
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,750
 mine who's very good at AI.

1669
01:11:24,916 --> 01:11:26,041
 And I said, Steve,

1670
01:11:27,125 --> 01:11:30,208
 what are the top 10 causes of anemia that

1671
01:11:30,250 --> 01:11:31,375
 have nothing to do with iron?

1672
01:11:32,750 --> 01:11:36,916
 And what came back was B12 deficiency, B9

1673
01:11:36,916 --> 01:11:38,916
 deficiency, B6 deficiency, hemolytic

1674
01:11:38,916 --> 01:11:40,125
 anemia, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1675
01:11:40,416 --> 01:11:41,208
 And it goes through the

1676
01:11:41,208 --> 01:11:42,708
 whole beta thalassemia.

1677
01:11:44,750 --> 01:11:46,291
 But there were two

1678
01:11:46,291 --> 01:11:46,958
 things that were missing.

1679
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:48,750
 I said, okay,

1680
01:11:49,833 --> 01:11:53,083
 what are the top 12 causes of anemia that

1681
01:11:53,083 --> 01:11:54,083
 have nothing to do with iron?

1682
01:11:54,916 --> 01:11:56,750
 Number 11, cupboard deficiency.

1683
01:11:57,166 --> 01:11:59,083
 Number 12, retinal deficiency.

1684
01:12:00,750 --> 01:12:03,875
 And to me, that was very representative

1685
01:12:03,875 --> 01:12:06,791
 of the thought process of convention.

1686
01:12:08,583 --> 01:12:10,958
 I'll give you 10 ones that you know

1687
01:12:10,958 --> 01:12:14,583
 about, but only under duress will I give

1688
01:12:14,583 --> 01:12:16,083
 you the two most important.

1689
01:12:16,708 --> 01:12:18,708
 Yeah, no, I'm surprised to get those.

1690
01:12:18,916 --> 01:12:20,416
 I was expecting another one.

1691
01:12:20,416 --> 01:12:22,250
 So I was expecting you to carry on to at

1692
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:23,375
 least 20 to be honest.

1693
01:12:24,708 --> 01:12:30,666
 So I was delighted that the AI gods let

1694
01:12:30,666 --> 01:12:31,625
 the cat out of the bag.

1695
01:12:32,458 --> 01:12:35,000
 But the important thing is this concept

1696
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,041
 of stress, of emotional stress, is

1697
01:12:38,041 --> 01:12:40,333
 central to our health and well being.

1698
01:12:41,625 --> 01:12:43,583
 And everyone's under stress.

1699
01:12:44,208 --> 01:12:45,791
 And again, to reinforce a point that I

1700
01:12:45,791 --> 01:12:48,250
 made earlier, if you have stress in your

1701
01:12:48,250 --> 01:12:51,041
 world, and we all do, that means you have

1702
01:12:51,041 --> 01:12:52,625
 oxidative stress in your body.

1703
01:12:53,666 --> 01:12:56,666
 And if you have this perception that the

1704
01:12:56,666 --> 01:12:59,750
 stress is unresolved or unresolvable,

1705
01:13:00,791 --> 01:13:02,125
 then it becomes PTSD.

1706
01:13:03,375 --> 01:13:06,500
 And then you just put gasoline on furin,

1707
01:13:07,166 --> 01:13:09,250
 then you just totally change

1708
01:13:09,250 --> 01:13:11,083
 the hepsidin ferritin dynamic.

1709
01:13:11,666 --> 01:13:13,833
 And then the tragedy is the people who

1710
01:13:13,833 --> 01:13:16,000
 have the low ferritin get iron

1711
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,916
 supplements, get some kind

1712
01:13:17,916 --> 01:13:19,958
 of enhanced level of iron.

1713
01:13:21,333 --> 01:13:22,208
 And what does that do?

1714
01:13:22,791 --> 01:13:23,875
 It only increases the

1715
01:13:23,875 --> 01:13:25,583
 physiological stress in the body.

1716
01:13:26,416 --> 01:13:30,375
 Because when iron is too high, it has a

1717
01:13:30,375 --> 01:13:32,791
 wet blanket effect on copper metabolism.

1718
01:13:33,666 --> 01:13:35,750
 So then we've totally changed the

1719
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:37,500
 physiology of the body, which is only

1720
01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:39,833
 going to intensify the

1721
01:13:39,833 --> 01:13:43,000
 perception of stress in the body.

1722
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,166
 I think it's, to me, it's the hidden

1723
01:13:46,166 --> 01:13:49,458
 factor for why so many people are out of

1724
01:13:49,458 --> 01:13:52,250
 balance and have chronic fatigue and just

1725
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:54,416
 don't have the vitality that they want.

1726
01:13:54,791 --> 01:13:58,000
 It's this confusion in the healing

1727
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,416
 circles about what's really behind low

1728
01:14:00,416 --> 01:14:02,625
 iron in the blood, and not any

1729
01:14:02,625 --> 01:14:04,833
 consideration to it stuck in the tissue

1730
01:14:05,208 --> 01:14:07,416
 and not realizing the copper is the

1731
01:14:07,416 --> 01:14:08,458
 shuttlecock, if you will,

1732
01:14:08,708 --> 01:14:11,291
 between the two domains.

1733
01:14:12,708 --> 01:14:12,916
 Definitely.

1734
01:14:13,166 --> 01:14:14,416
 So take a chirp call and

1735
01:14:14,416 --> 01:14:15,416
 let it be called copper.

1736
01:14:19,083 --> 01:14:19,416
 Absolutely.

1737
01:14:20,750 --> 01:14:23,541
 Molly, I'd like to maybe introduce, thank

1738
01:14:23,541 --> 01:14:25,041
 you for that, by the way, I'd like to

1739
01:14:25,041 --> 01:14:26,041
 introduce a slightly different

1740
01:14:26,041 --> 01:14:28,333
 perspective if you're open to it.

1741
01:14:29,083 --> 01:14:30,833
 Now, I'm a big fan of Joel Green.

1742
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:32,125
 I don't know if you're

1743
01:14:32,125 --> 01:14:34,083
 familiar with his work and who he is.

1744
01:14:34,791 --> 01:14:36,875
 He has a very gut-centric approach to

1745
01:14:36,875 --> 01:14:39,166
 health, and health in general.

1746
01:14:39,791 --> 01:14:44,000
 And he also has a fairly, I suppose,

1747
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,458
 multifaceted approach to how one might

1748
01:14:46,458 --> 01:14:48,541
 deal with iron overload, which I'd love

1749
01:14:48,541 --> 01:14:49,500
 to get your take on.

1750
01:14:49,875 --> 01:14:50,791
 Of course, I'm not trying to

1751
01:14:50,791 --> 01:14:52,791
 pit anyone against each other.

1752
01:14:53,583 --> 01:14:56,000
 It's just really to, I'm just interested

1753
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,541
 in hearing people's perspectives, I

1754
01:14:58,541 --> 01:15:00,375
 suppose, on different protocols and ways

1755
01:15:00,375 --> 01:15:01,250
 of approaching something.

1756
01:15:02,166 --> 01:15:07,000
 Anyway, he first posits that, excuse me,

1757
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,750
 he first posits that increasing various

1758
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:11,250
 gut bacteria, like

1759
01:15:11,250 --> 01:15:12,458
 bifidobacteria, for example,

1760
01:15:13,458 --> 01:15:16,333
 with various iron-binding cetaphols,

1761
01:15:16,333 --> 01:15:18,333
 which I suppose for the audience can

1762
01:15:18,333 --> 01:15:19,958
 maybe best describe as well.

1763
01:15:21,041 --> 01:15:22,666
 I suppose literally bacteria-produced

1764
01:15:22,666 --> 01:15:26,083
 magnets can help trap iron and I suppose

1765
01:15:26,083 --> 01:15:28,583
 suppressor at the level of the gut and

1766
01:15:28,583 --> 01:15:30,083
 therefore reduce systemic overload.

1767
01:15:30,625 --> 01:15:31,250
 Do you think there's any

1768
01:15:31,250 --> 01:15:33,291
 value to that statement at all?

1769
01:15:34,166 --> 01:15:34,750
 Is there any way?

1770
01:15:35,583 --> 01:15:36,291
 Value to that statement.

1771
01:15:36,666 --> 01:15:37,750
 Would you agree with that?

1772
01:15:38,166 --> 01:15:38,541
 Absolutely.

1773
01:15:40,125 --> 01:15:43,541
 Iron metabolism is a two-step process.

1774
01:15:45,125 --> 01:15:48,000
 We've got to get iron into the enterocyte

1775
01:15:48,500 --> 01:15:56,041
 and then it comes in a plus two format.

1776
01:15:58,500 --> 01:16:01,958
 But then it's got to go into a plus three

1777
01:16:01,958 --> 01:16:04,791
 format to either be loaded into ferritin

1778
01:16:04,791 --> 01:16:08,500
 or be exported onto transferrin.

1779
01:16:09,583 --> 01:16:11,875
 And the second step of absorption is

1780
01:16:11,875 --> 01:16:16,708
 transferrin accepting the iron so it can

1781
01:16:16,708 --> 01:16:18,625
 go into the bloodstream and get back to

1782
01:16:18,625 --> 01:16:19,750
 the bone marrow to

1783
01:16:19,750 --> 01:16:20,833
 become new red blood cells.

1784
01:16:22,583 --> 01:16:25,333
 And so when that doesn't happen

1785
01:16:25,333 --> 01:16:28,000
 efficiently and effectively, there will

1786
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,541
 be a buildup of iron in the

1787
01:16:29,541 --> 01:16:32,083
 enterocyte, the enterocytes.

1788
01:16:33,083 --> 01:16:36,791
 And so I think that all of the

1789
01:16:36,791 --> 01:16:39,833
 gut-related distress that's out there,

1790
01:16:40,083 --> 01:16:41,916
 whether we're talking about colitis or

1791
01:16:41,916 --> 01:16:46,500
 Crohn's or just IBS or whatever the

1792
01:16:46,500 --> 01:16:49,791
 mechanism might be, I think it's all

1793
01:16:49,791 --> 01:16:52,833
 iron-related due to a lack of copper.

1794
01:16:54,416 --> 01:16:56,416
 And in fact, in the

1795
01:16:56,416 --> 01:16:58,041
 world of veterinary medicine,

1796
01:16:59,166 --> 01:17:01,416
 there's a condition called Jonas disease,

1797
01:17:03,333 --> 01:17:06,833
 J-O-H-N-S-E-S, Jonas disease.

1798
01:17:08,125 --> 01:17:12,750
 And it's identical to Crohn's disease.

1799
01:17:14,833 --> 01:17:16,666
 The conditions are absolutely identical.

1800
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,166
 Do you know how they cure Jonas disease

1801
01:17:21,166 --> 01:17:22,291
 in the animal world?

1802
01:17:23,250 --> 01:17:23,458
 Copper.

1803
01:17:24,166 --> 01:17:24,750
 Yeah.

1804
01:17:25,583 --> 01:17:29,166
 But in the human world, the doctors wring

1805
01:17:29,166 --> 01:17:30,500
 their hands saying we don't have to

1806
01:17:30,500 --> 01:17:31,875
 understand this Crohn's thing.

1807
01:17:33,166 --> 01:17:36,208
 And it's just, to me, it's unfortunate

1808
01:17:36,208 --> 01:17:37,083
 that people don't

1809
01:17:37,083 --> 01:17:39,916
 understand how iron is absorbed,

1810
01:17:41,125 --> 01:17:44,958
 two steps, how copper is essential for

1811
01:17:44,958 --> 01:17:50,125
 the mechanism to maintain that balance.

1812
01:17:51,208 --> 01:17:56,875
 And so the other side of it, though, in

1813
01:17:56,875 --> 01:17:59,291
 terms of gut dysbiosis is I've worked

1814
01:17:59,291 --> 01:18:01,041
 with hundreds of people who have gut

1815
01:18:01,041 --> 01:18:02,291
 issues, as you can imagine,

1816
01:18:03,250 --> 01:18:04,791
 what do they all have in common?

1817
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:06,833
 There's an emotional

1818
01:18:06,833 --> 01:18:07,958
 issue they can't stomach.

1819
01:18:09,041 --> 01:18:09,250
 Yeah.

1820
01:18:09,416 --> 01:18:10,625
 And that's sort of going to affect that

1821
01:18:10,625 --> 01:18:11,458
 migrating motor

1822
01:18:11,458 --> 01:18:12,791
 complex for the most part.

1823
01:18:13,625 --> 01:18:14,541
 I assume there's a

1824
01:18:14,541 --> 01:18:15,333
 copper link there as well.

1825
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:20,500
 Well, again, we're back to when you're in

1826
01:18:20,500 --> 01:18:24,333
 a sympathetic state, the two hormones

1827
01:18:24,333 --> 01:18:26,583
 that are going to really rise are

1828
01:18:26,583 --> 01:18:28,500
 adrenaline and cortisol.

1829
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:30,833
 Yeah, fair enough.

1830
01:18:31,958 --> 01:18:34,041
 Adrenaline has known

1831
01:18:34,041 --> 01:18:36,083
 properties to increase hepsidin.

1832
01:18:37,208 --> 01:18:39,125
 So there must be an adrenaline, there's

1833
01:18:39,125 --> 01:18:41,333
 an adrenaline-furyin connection, right?

1834
01:18:42,375 --> 01:18:43,958
 So hepsidin is going up.

1835
01:18:43,958 --> 01:18:45,291
 We know what that's going to do.

1836
01:18:45,625 --> 01:18:47,083
 And what does cortisol do?

1837
01:18:47,833 --> 01:18:49,666
 Cortisol is very important hormone.

1838
01:18:50,250 --> 01:18:52,208
 It serves many different functions.

1839
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,625
 But one of its least known functions is

1840
01:18:56,625 --> 01:18:58,375
 the ability to increase the

1841
01:18:58,375 --> 01:19:00,166
 production of metallothionine.

1842
01:19:01,541 --> 01:19:04,375
 So in a state of stress, when cortisol

1843
01:19:04,375 --> 01:19:07,333
 gets released, there can be a four to

1844
01:19:07,333 --> 01:19:09,208
 five-fold increase in

1845
01:19:09,208 --> 01:19:10,625
 metallothionine production.

1846
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:12,916
 And why is that a problem?

1847
01:19:13,666 --> 01:19:17,291
 Because metallothionine binds up copper a

1848
01:19:17,291 --> 01:19:18,583
 thousand times stronger

1849
01:19:18,583 --> 01:19:19,583
 than it binds up zinc.

1850
01:19:23,083 --> 01:19:26,041
 So then we've just changed the energy and

1851
01:19:26,041 --> 01:19:28,250
 antioxidant dynamics of the body.

1852
01:19:29,375 --> 01:19:32,166
 And so if someone has chronic stress,

1853
01:19:34,708 --> 01:19:36,208
 what's essentially what's happening is

1854
01:19:36,208 --> 01:19:39,916
 the organism, our organism is saying, you

1855
01:19:39,916 --> 01:19:41,041
 can't seem to handle the stress.

1856
01:19:41,583 --> 01:19:43,041
 I'm going to power you down.

1857
01:19:43,958 --> 01:19:44,125
 Yeah.

1858
01:19:44,625 --> 01:19:47,250
 Hence the, I suppose that sort of

1859
01:19:47,250 --> 01:19:49,500
 something I go on about every podcast

1860
01:19:49,500 --> 01:19:51,000
 just about so I'm sure the audience is

1861
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:51,666
 about, it was really

1862
01:19:51,666 --> 01:19:53,125
 kill me at this point.

1863
01:19:53,125 --> 01:19:54,791
 But that, that sounds

1864
01:19:54,791 --> 01:19:57,083
 like, very much like Dr.

1865
01:19:57,083 --> 01:19:58,500
 Robert Navier's Saldane response.

1866
01:19:58,833 --> 01:19:59,416
 I don't know if you...

1867
01:19:59,666 --> 01:20:00,083
 Yes, absolutely.

1868
01:20:00,500 --> 01:20:00,708
 Yeah.

1869
01:20:01,125 --> 01:20:02,583
 And the other part that I think is

1870
01:20:02,583 --> 01:20:04,041
 important for people to realize is

1871
01:20:04,500 --> 01:20:09,166
 there's a lot of belief, and what's the

1872
01:20:09,166 --> 01:20:11,208
 three letter word in belief lie.

1873
01:20:11,916 --> 01:20:13,333
 There's a lot of belief that we need to

1874
01:20:13,333 --> 01:20:15,000
 manage our zinc-copper ratio.

1875
01:20:16,208 --> 01:20:17,291
 No, no you don't.

1876
01:20:17,958 --> 01:20:19,791
 You need to get zinc in your diet.

1877
01:20:19,791 --> 01:20:21,166
 It's a very important mineral.

1878
01:20:22,083 --> 01:20:24,708
 But I think we are facing a severe

1879
01:20:24,708 --> 01:20:26,916
 shortage of copper in the food system

1880
01:20:26,916 --> 01:20:30,125
 because it's not in the soil because of

1881
01:20:30,125 --> 01:20:32,041
 modern agricultural practices.

1882
01:20:32,083 --> 01:20:34,875
 But what people need to understand is

1883
01:20:34,875 --> 01:20:37,541
 that zinc is a perfect

1884
01:20:37,541 --> 01:20:39,791
 activator for metallothione.

1885
01:20:41,458 --> 01:20:45,500
 So when you're gobbling down 45, 50

1886
01:20:45,500 --> 01:20:48,125
 milligrams of zinc, you've effectively

1887
01:20:48,125 --> 01:20:49,291
 taken copper offline.

1888
01:20:50,833 --> 01:20:53,875
 And the part that people may not know is

1889
01:20:53,875 --> 01:20:59,500
 that zinc has a known ability to block

1890
01:20:59,500 --> 01:21:01,791
 copper uptake at CTR1,

1891
01:21:02,416 --> 01:21:03,458
 copper transporter 1.

1892
01:21:03,791 --> 01:21:07,000
 It has a known ability to kill the

1893
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:09,000
 cytochrome C oxidase function.

1894
01:21:10,166 --> 01:21:13,916
 And it has a known ability by Dr.

1895
01:21:14,583 --> 01:21:18,291
 Deuce down in Australia in 2010 to kill

1896
01:21:18,291 --> 01:21:20,041
 the ferrooxidase enzyme function,

1897
01:21:20,333 --> 01:21:21,250
 especially in the brain.

1898
01:21:22,916 --> 01:21:25,000
 And so there's a lot of who struck John

1899
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:26,625
 about, "Oh, you got to be

1900
01:21:26,625 --> 01:21:28,000
 careful of your zinc levels."

1901
01:21:28,666 --> 01:21:29,666
 No.

1902
01:21:31,666 --> 01:21:35,958
 The person who raised that issue was a

1903
01:21:35,958 --> 01:21:37,083
 gentleman by the name of

1904
01:21:37,083 --> 01:21:40,375
 Carl Pfeiffer in the 1960s.

1905
01:21:41,041 --> 01:21:43,333
 When the heels of world-renowned

1906
01:21:43,458 --> 01:21:46,625
 scientists like Otto Wirberg, Hans Krebs,

1907
01:21:47,875 --> 01:21:51,833
 LVM, Conrad LVM, some very noted

1908
01:21:51,833 --> 01:21:52,791
 scientists studying

1909
01:21:53,458 --> 01:21:56,791
 copper and iron for 30 years.

1910
01:21:58,208 --> 01:21:59,291
 They didn't study zinc.

1911
01:21:59,958 --> 01:22:01,500
 Zinc wasn't even on the radar screen.

1912
01:22:02,791 --> 01:22:05,875
 And in the same way that I would argue

1913
01:22:05,875 --> 01:22:10,500
 that Louis Pasteur was guided in his

1914
01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:14,041
 focus, I think that Carl Pfeiffer was

1915
01:22:14,041 --> 01:22:15,583
 guided in his focus.

1916
01:22:16,458 --> 01:22:22,750
 And he wrote the first article in the

1917
01:22:22,750 --> 01:22:25,250
 1960s about the zinc-copper ratio.

1918
01:22:26,250 --> 01:22:28,916
 Well, what's important to know is the

1919
01:22:28,916 --> 01:22:30,958
 history of these scientists.

1920
01:22:32,333 --> 01:22:34,708
 And it's in Wikipedia.

1921
01:22:34,708 --> 01:22:35,833
 You can look it up.

1922
01:22:36,333 --> 01:22:39,000
 But he was a principal in the MK Ultra

1923
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:40,250
 Mine program with the

1924
01:22:40,250 --> 01:22:41,583
 CIA here in the States.

1925
01:22:41,583 --> 01:22:44,875
 Well, when I learn about a fact like

1926
01:22:44,875 --> 01:22:47,708
 that, that invalidates their research.

1927
01:22:49,708 --> 01:22:53,833
 And so I just, I question the veracity of

1928
01:22:53,833 --> 01:22:58,166
 this zinc-copper ratio that runs a lot of

1929
01:22:58,166 --> 01:23:02,083
 thinking in functional medical circles.

1930
01:23:02,083 --> 01:23:04,083
 They get very preoccupied with it.

1931
01:23:04,500 --> 01:23:05,916
 And I don't think they understand the energetics of copper or

1932
01:23:05,916 --> 01:23:07,833
 the de-energetics of zinc.

1933
01:23:10,833 --> 01:23:11,875
 There's nothing about

1934
01:23:11,875 --> 01:23:13,333
 zinc that creates energy.

1935
01:23:14,916 --> 01:23:18,583
 It doesn't make you have more vitality.

1936
01:23:19,375 --> 01:23:21,875
 It's my way of thinking.

1937
01:23:22,375 --> 01:23:24,000
 Zinc is a structural mineral.

1938
01:23:25,125 --> 01:23:26,750
 Copper is a catalytic mineral.

1939
01:23:27,416 --> 01:23:28,458
 And we need both.

1940
01:23:29,166 --> 01:23:30,333
 But when you've got to make change, when

1941
01:23:30,333 --> 01:23:31,541
 you've got to make energy, when you've

1942
01:23:31,541 --> 01:23:34,125
 got to neutralize the exhaust, you better

1943
01:23:34,125 --> 01:23:34,541
 have bioavailable copper.

1944
01:23:35,041 --> 01:23:36,000
 Bioavailable copper

1945
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:37,958
 at your beck and call.

1946
01:23:38,791 --> 01:23:40,500
 Do you think the copper IDA is even close

1947
01:23:40,500 --> 01:23:41,250
 to being sufficient?

1948
01:23:41,875 --> 01:23:42,291
 Excuse me.

1949
01:23:42,708 --> 01:23:45,000
 Do you think the copper IDA is even close

1950
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:45,791
 to being sufficient?

1951
01:23:48,500 --> 01:23:53,875
 So in the 1930s, the average person, this

1952
01:23:53,875 --> 01:23:55,333
 is here in the States, but actually there

1953
01:23:55,333 --> 01:23:57,458
 were studies done in China and in the UK.

1954
01:23:59,166 --> 01:24:01,916
 Back in the 30s, the average diet would

1955
01:24:01,916 --> 01:24:04,083
 deliver four to six

1956
01:24:04,083 --> 01:24:05,708
 milligrams of copper a day.

1957
01:24:06,208 --> 01:24:07,916
 And I was stuck on one to two at best.

1958
01:24:08,458 --> 01:24:11,083
 And then by the 1960s, it had dropped to

1959
01:24:11,083 --> 01:24:12,916
 two to five milligrams per day.

1960
01:24:14,458 --> 01:24:17,666
 And now worldwide, they seem to be

1961
01:24:17,666 --> 01:24:19,791
 hovering around nine-tenths of one

1962
01:24:19,791 --> 01:24:21,333
 milligram being acceptable.

1963
01:24:22,416 --> 01:24:24,500
 And then Leslie Clavey in 2011 did a

1964
01:24:24,500 --> 01:24:28,000
 study of the average American's diet and

1965
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:29,625
 how much copper were

1966
01:24:29,625 --> 01:24:30,458
 they actually getting.

1967
01:24:31,333 --> 01:24:33,833
 And if I'm remembering it correctly, 80%

1968
01:24:34,208 --> 01:24:36,958
 of people in the States were not getting

1969
01:24:36,958 --> 01:24:38,375
 nine-tenths of one

1970
01:24:38,375 --> 01:24:39,708
 milligram of copper a day.

1971
01:24:40,875 --> 01:24:42,958
 And he just has a very simple solution,

1972
01:24:43,791 --> 01:24:45,416
 get more copper in your diet

1973
01:24:45,416 --> 01:24:47,500
 and in your supplement routine.

1974
01:24:47,916 --> 01:24:51,375
 And that's a very unpopular, almost

1975
01:24:51,375 --> 01:24:52,833
 heretical stance because

1976
01:24:52,833 --> 01:24:54,625
 copper is toxic, don't you know?

1977
01:24:55,291 --> 01:24:56,541
 Yeah, you're going to end up with

1978
01:24:56,541 --> 01:24:58,208
 Wilson's disease by tomorrow morning if

1979
01:24:58,208 --> 01:24:59,708
 you ever do it by half milligram.

1980
01:25:00,208 --> 01:25:00,833
 Exactly, right.

1981
01:25:01,625 --> 01:25:03,833
 No, I think there's a lot of hysteria

1982
01:25:03,833 --> 01:25:07,500
 around copper for all the wrong, well, I

1983
01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:09,125
 will say for all the wrong reasons.

1984
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:15,458
 But the delicacy of copper is the

1985
01:25:15,458 --> 01:25:18,000
 research is out there, but you really

1986
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:19,458
 have to work for it.

1987
01:25:19,875 --> 01:25:24,791
 And it takes time and discipline, and it

1988
01:25:24,791 --> 01:25:26,875
 takes a willingness to stand up to

1989
01:25:26,875 --> 01:25:28,541
 convention to question,

1990
01:25:29,250 --> 01:25:31,000
 could there be more to the story?

1991
01:25:31,583 --> 01:25:33,083
 And that's really what we, that's the

1992
01:25:33,083 --> 01:25:35,416
 position we take within the RCP is, yes,

1993
01:25:35,416 --> 01:25:36,750
 there is more to the story.

1994
01:25:36,750 --> 01:25:37,875
 Let's talk about it.

1995
01:25:38,416 --> 01:25:40,166
 Yeah, do you have a preferred sort of

1996
01:25:40,166 --> 01:25:41,833
 supplement form of copper?

1997
01:25:43,083 --> 01:25:45,583
 I mean, I know there is one, I believe

1998
01:25:45,583 --> 01:25:47,916
 it's by a company called Global Healing,

1999
01:25:48,208 --> 01:25:50,958
 and they produce a copper,

2000
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,000
 it's a copper's

2001
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:54,791
 nicotinic acid, I believe.

2002
01:25:55,916 --> 01:26:00,125
 And I have a feeling that you're a fan of

2003
01:26:00,125 --> 01:26:01,958
 copper supplements in the sort of

2004
01:26:01,958 --> 01:26:06,333
 alongside other whole food forms of

2005
01:26:06,333 --> 01:26:08,375
 various vitamins and minerals, such as A.

2006
01:26:09,958 --> 01:26:12,291
 What are your thoughts on sort of

2007
01:26:12,291 --> 01:26:13,666
 stand-alone copper salts

2008
01:26:13,666 --> 01:26:16,416
 versus copper in, yeah.

2009
01:26:16,791 --> 01:26:19,333
 When I started this work, I was really

2010
01:26:19,333 --> 01:26:20,416
 focused on more on

2011
01:26:20,416 --> 01:26:22,000
 minerals in general and magnesium.

2012
01:26:23,333 --> 01:26:28,916
 What really woke me up was COVID, that we

2013
01:26:28,916 --> 01:26:31,500
 have a problem, that there's a, I think

2014
01:26:31,500 --> 01:26:32,875
 there's a definite shortage

2015
01:26:32,875 --> 01:26:34,500
 of copper in the food system.

2016
01:26:37,458 --> 01:26:42,500
 There's a lot of opinions about it, as

2017
01:26:42,500 --> 01:26:43,375
 you can well imagine.

2018
01:26:43,875 --> 01:26:47,958
 But I was inspired to help a supplement

2019
01:26:47,958 --> 01:26:50,958
 company based here in the US, it's called

2020
01:26:50,958 --> 01:26:53,250
 Formula IQ, to make a copper

2021
01:26:53,250 --> 01:26:55,541
 supplement called RecuPyrate,

2022
01:26:56,583 --> 01:27:00,916
 that's my unending wit, RecuPyrate,

2023
01:27:02,375 --> 01:27:04,541
 and it delivers two milligrams of copper

2024
01:27:04,541 --> 01:27:09,500
 bisclicinate, along with spirulina and

2025
01:27:09,500 --> 01:27:11,416
 desiccated beef liver and

2026
01:27:11,416 --> 01:27:13,500
 some boron and turmeric.

2027
01:27:14,500 --> 01:27:15,750
 And it actually comes

2028
01:27:15,750 --> 01:27:18,000
 with or without the boron.

2029
01:27:21,250 --> 01:27:25,166
 I fought the need to do that mightily,

2030
01:27:26,375 --> 01:27:28,916
 and I was willing to run the risk of

2031
01:27:28,916 --> 01:27:30,000
 being called a supplement

2032
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,750
 whore, because I somehow named it.

2033
01:27:32,750 --> 01:27:35,125
 I had no influence over its design per

2034
01:27:35,125 --> 01:27:38,083
 se, although the the formula was very

2035
01:27:38,083 --> 01:27:41,000
 quick to get my, at least my opinion,

2036
01:27:41,500 --> 01:27:43,583
 because I'm not a chemist.

2037
01:27:44,541 --> 01:27:48,375
 But I wanted a solution to the copper

2038
01:27:48,375 --> 01:27:51,291
 problem that I think was definitely

2039
01:27:51,291 --> 01:27:53,541
 aggravated by the time

2040
01:27:53,541 --> 01:27:56,125
 period 2020 through 2023.

2041
01:27:57,041 --> 01:28:00,291
 There was a decided attack, in my

2042
01:28:00,291 --> 01:28:03,541
 opinion, on copper status, other minerals

2043
01:28:03,541 --> 01:28:04,750
 in general, but I

2044
01:28:04,750 --> 01:28:05,750
 think copper in particular.

2045
01:28:07,666 --> 01:28:10,916
 And so, at the risk of selling like Al

2046
01:28:10,916 --> 01:28:13,250
 Gore, who invented the internet, right?

2047
01:28:14,166 --> 01:28:14,958
 Yeah, I think I

2048
01:28:14,958 --> 01:28:16,625
 invented the demand for copper.

2049
01:28:17,916 --> 01:28:21,291
 And I think I made it fashionable to at

2050
01:28:21,291 --> 01:28:22,416
 least talk about it.

2051
01:28:23,500 --> 01:28:25,083
 Right now, there's probably 50 different

2052
01:28:25,083 --> 01:28:25,833
 products out there,

2053
01:28:26,375 --> 01:28:27,208
 which I think is great.

2054
01:28:27,416 --> 01:28:29,916
 I think, you know, let's raise the tide,

2055
01:28:30,250 --> 01:28:31,666
 because it's going to help all boats.

2056
01:28:33,416 --> 01:28:36,291
 I think what's really needed, Rob, is a

2057
01:28:36,291 --> 01:28:40,375
 definitive study to say, is there a

2058
01:28:40,375 --> 01:28:41,208
 pecking order to all

2059
01:28:41,208 --> 01:28:42,166
 these different approaches?

2060
01:28:43,125 --> 01:28:45,083
 I've seen articles that are very critical

2061
01:28:45,083 --> 01:28:47,000
 of the salts, the copper salts.

2062
01:28:48,791 --> 01:28:51,500
 I've seen articles that talk about the

2063
01:28:51,500 --> 01:28:53,791
 value of copper infusions.

2064
01:28:55,333 --> 01:28:57,000
 I mean, the dilemma is,

2065
01:28:57,291 --> 01:28:58,250
 what's really missing,

2066
01:28:59,458 --> 01:29:02,125
 if I had another magic wand,

2067
01:29:03,833 --> 01:29:07,041
 I would institutionalize the production

2068
01:29:07,125 --> 01:29:11,083
 of ceruleoplasma and allow that to be

2069
01:29:11,083 --> 01:29:13,041
 something that can be infused in people.

2070
01:29:13,041 --> 01:29:14,875
 You were a component of ceruleoplasma.

2071
01:29:15,416 --> 01:29:16,250
 Yeah, exactly.

2072
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:18,166
 Because it exists.

2073
01:29:19,250 --> 01:29:20,833
 It costs about $200 a

2074
01:29:20,833 --> 01:29:23,083
 vial, a one ounce vial.

2075
01:29:24,083 --> 01:29:25,916
 But you have to be a research scientist

2076
01:29:25,916 --> 01:29:28,000
 to get access to it.

2077
01:29:28,291 --> 01:29:32,916
 And the thing is, back in the 1950s, they

2078
01:29:32,916 --> 01:29:34,958
 were curing schizophrenia

2079
01:29:34,958 --> 01:29:37,541
 with one shot of ceruleoplasma.

2080
01:29:38,250 --> 01:29:40,000
 Oh, I was not even

2081
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,125
 close to aware of that.

2082
01:29:41,291 --> 01:29:42,125
 That's fascinating.

2083
01:29:42,375 --> 01:29:43,000
 I'll look that up.

2084
01:29:43,375 --> 01:29:46,500
 And so that's work that was done at

2085
01:29:46,500 --> 01:29:48,750
 Tulane University in 1959.

2086
01:29:52,166 --> 01:29:52,416
 Dr.

2087
01:29:52,625 --> 01:29:55,000
 Jensen and two colleagues from Harvard

2088
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,250
 Medical School were involved in that.

2089
01:29:57,666 --> 01:29:59,000
 And they were studying 34

2090
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:01,166
 patients with schizophrenia.

2091
01:30:02,416 --> 01:30:05,166
 And there was a marked improvement in 30

2092
01:30:05,166 --> 01:30:07,916
 of the 34 with the shot of ceruleoplasma.

2093
01:30:08,541 --> 01:30:09,791
 Well, what does that really tell us?

2094
01:30:10,375 --> 01:30:13,416
 Well, the origin of schizophrenia is the

2095
01:30:13,666 --> 01:30:15,500
 resting of adrenaline.

2096
01:30:16,833 --> 01:30:18,833
 Because anyone who has schizophrenia is

2097
01:30:18,833 --> 01:30:20,791
 in a state of fear, heightened fear.

2098
01:30:22,125 --> 01:30:26,333
 And what's the out what's the byproduct

2099
01:30:26,333 --> 01:30:28,583
 of fear and adrenaline?

2100
01:30:29,333 --> 01:30:30,333
 It's called adrenochrome.

2101
01:30:31,625 --> 01:30:34,166
 It's a very powerful chemical that alters

2102
01:30:34,166 --> 01:30:37,333
 the thinking in the individual's brain.

2103
01:30:38,041 --> 01:30:39,958
 And why do I know so much about it?

2104
01:30:40,458 --> 01:30:41,833
 Because my dad had schizophrenia.

2105
01:30:42,916 --> 01:30:44,541
 And what was the treatment of choice in

2106
01:30:44,541 --> 01:30:48,166
 Baltimore, Maryland in 1958, when he was

2107
01:30:48,166 --> 01:30:50,166
 because when he actually ran away from

2108
01:30:50,166 --> 01:30:52,291
 home, never to come back, was they were

2109
01:30:52,291 --> 01:30:53,875
 using electric shock therapy,

2110
01:30:55,375 --> 01:30:56,791
 not ceruleoplasma.

2111
01:30:57,875 --> 01:31:00,333
 And the reason why he left home was if

2112
01:31:00,333 --> 01:31:02,208
 you've ever seen the movie Cuckoo's Nest,

2113
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:04,416
 you know how unbecoming

2114
01:31:04,416 --> 01:31:06,500
 electric shock therapy is.

2115
01:31:07,083 --> 01:31:08,500
 And he didn't want any part of that

2116
01:31:08,500 --> 01:31:09,583
 because he had it done once.

2117
01:31:10,208 --> 01:31:12,125
 So it's just, that's

2118
01:31:12,125 --> 01:31:13,333
 the wound that I carry.

2119
01:31:14,250 --> 01:31:16,083
 And I have the pleasure

2120
01:31:16,083 --> 01:31:17,875
 of knowing how to solve it.

2121
01:31:18,583 --> 01:31:20,000
 But I don't have the pleasure of

2122
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:21,083
 administering it,

2123
01:31:21,083 --> 01:31:22,250
 because it's under lockdown.

2124
01:31:23,666 --> 01:31:25,000
 It's under clinical lockdown.

2125
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,000
 And it's only available for research

2126
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:29,625
 scientists under very strict conditions.

2127
01:31:30,500 --> 01:31:32,833
 But I can point you in the direction of a

2128
01:31:32,833 --> 01:31:35,541
 dozen studies to prove that ceruleoplasma

2129
01:31:35,541 --> 01:31:36,625
 would solve all the problems.

2130
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,625
 Well, I mean, hopefully through sort of

2131
01:31:39,625 --> 01:31:41,416
 talking about through on podcasts like

2132
01:31:41,416 --> 01:31:43,750
 this, we can at least raise awareness and

2133
01:31:43,750 --> 01:31:46,125
 create the education around it.

2134
01:31:47,625 --> 01:31:49,208
 I found the study, by the way, just while

2135
01:31:49,208 --> 01:31:50,708
 you were talking, and I'll make sure to

2136
01:31:50,708 --> 01:31:52,916
 link to it in the show notes so that

2137
01:31:52,916 --> 01:31:55,166
 people at least do have access to it.

2138
01:31:56,208 --> 01:31:56,375
 Okay.

2139
01:31:56,500 --> 01:31:58,500
 It's

2140
01:31:58,500 --> 01:32:00,041
 a very disruptive article.

2141
01:32:00,541 --> 01:32:00,958
 Just a bit.

2142
01:32:01,333 --> 01:32:02,250
 I will read it in

2143
01:32:02,250 --> 01:32:05,125
 depth after our podcast.

2144
01:32:07,250 --> 01:32:10,666
 Molly, the last thing I suppose I wanted

2145
01:32:10,666 --> 01:32:13,000
 to talk to you about in earnest today,

2146
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:14,375
 and this is again something Joel Green

2147
01:32:14,375 --> 01:32:15,583
 brought up, was this concept of

2148
01:32:15,583 --> 01:32:16,208
 lactoferrin,

2149
01:32:16,625 --> 01:32:18,500
 specifically human lactoferrin.

2150
01:32:18,750 --> 01:32:22,000
 Now, I suppose Joel talks about this as

2151
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,166
 being a master regulator of iron balance

2152
01:32:24,166 --> 01:32:27,708
 and a two-way buffer system, maybe rather

2153
01:32:27,708 --> 01:32:29,291
 than just a one removal tool.

2154
01:32:29,291 --> 01:32:31,458
 And the way I see it, and you're welcome,

2155
01:32:31,750 --> 01:32:32,416
 and correct me if I'm

2156
01:32:32,416 --> 01:32:34,041
 wrong, which I probably am, but

2157
01:32:35,583 --> 01:32:40,375
 it binds to iron reportedly anyway, up to

2158
01:32:40,375 --> 01:32:44,875
 300 times more than trozferrin, allowing

2159
01:32:44,875 --> 01:32:47,208
 it to obviously then sequester more iron.

2160
01:32:48,125 --> 01:32:52,041
 It then reduces free sort of red

2161
01:32:52,041 --> 01:32:54,458
 oxactive, I suppose, iron

2162
01:32:54,458 --> 01:32:55,750
 to limit oxidative stress.

2163
01:32:56,041 --> 01:32:58,625
 And I suppose as a result of that

2164
01:32:58,625 --> 01:33:00,458
 microbial growth by way of limiting

2165
01:33:00,458 --> 01:33:03,250
 substrate for infections like Candida,

2166
01:33:03,250 --> 01:33:04,708
 which we didn't touch on today, but

2167
01:33:04,708 --> 01:33:07,041
 that's fascinating in and of itself.

2168
01:33:07,458 --> 01:33:10,458
 It also seems to release bound iron in

2169
01:33:10,458 --> 01:33:15,416
 the body when it needs to, yet it's then

2170
01:33:15,416 --> 01:33:16,583
 able to bind up a surplus.

2171
01:33:17,125 --> 01:33:20,208
 And then finally, it seems to sort of

2172
01:33:20,208 --> 01:33:22,125
 support immune system

2173
01:33:22,125 --> 01:33:24,250
 function by modulating.

2174
01:33:25,166 --> 01:33:27,666
 And let me see if I can get this right,

2175
01:33:27,875 --> 01:33:31,125
 macrophage function, which I assume could

2176
01:33:31,125 --> 01:33:32,500
 help regulate iron

2177
01:33:32,500 --> 01:33:35,625
 recycling by way of ferroportin.

2178
01:33:35,625 --> 01:33:36,208
 Is that correct?

2179
01:33:36,541 --> 01:33:36,833
 That's right.

2180
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:41,541
 So I think I'm piecing this together, at

2181
01:33:41,541 --> 01:33:43,083
 least in some way, shape or form.

2182
01:33:43,458 --> 01:33:46,875
 But do you think lactoferrin is an

2183
01:33:46,875 --> 01:33:48,166
 interesting molecule in this regard?

2184
01:33:48,500 --> 01:33:50,583
 And I know we're going back slightly to

2185
01:33:50,583 --> 01:33:53,750
 the argument, well, not the argument, the

2186
01:33:53,750 --> 01:33:55,375
 discussion around molecular hydrogen

2187
01:33:55,375 --> 01:33:57,041
 adding sort of more pieces

2188
01:33:57,041 --> 01:33:58,666
 to this particular puzzle.

2189
01:33:59,500 --> 01:34:00,666
 What do you think about

2190
01:34:00,666 --> 01:34:02,916
 lactoferrin in general?

2191
01:34:02,916 --> 01:34:07,000
 And maybe with these new human specific

2192
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:09,166
 lactoferrins coming onto the market that

2193
01:34:09,166 --> 01:34:11,500
 potentially have less of an immunological

2194
01:34:11,500 --> 01:34:12,583
 reaction than say

2195
01:34:12,583 --> 01:34:14,208
 something that's bovine in nature.

2196
01:34:15,708 --> 01:34:16,083
 Yeah.

2197
01:34:16,083 --> 01:34:18,958
 Do you think that has a part to play in

2198
01:34:18,958 --> 01:34:20,125
 helping to regulate iron?

2199
01:34:21,458 --> 01:34:22,500
 No, I think it's a

2200
01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:24,375
 primal molecule to do that.

2201
01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:27,083
 What's one of the highest expressions of

2202
01:34:27,083 --> 01:34:28,208
 lactoferrin on the planet?

2203
01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:31,375
 In unprocessed cow's milk.

2204
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:32,333
 Royal dairy.

2205
01:34:34,041 --> 01:34:35,666
 And now we're back to

2206
01:34:35,666 --> 01:34:37,500
 beychamp and pasture.

2207
01:34:37,500 --> 01:34:39,291
 Indeed.

2208
01:34:39,833 --> 01:34:41,125
 When you pasteurize milk,

2209
01:34:42,458 --> 01:34:44,416
 what happens to the enzymes in that milk?

2210
01:34:45,125 --> 01:34:45,833
 They disappear.

2211
01:34:46,208 --> 01:34:46,833
 They disappear.

2212
01:34:47,291 --> 01:34:48,208
 There's 50 of them.

2213
01:34:48,208 --> 01:34:50,000
 There's 50 of them that disappear.

2214
01:34:50,541 --> 01:34:51,583
 The two most important,

2215
01:34:53,416 --> 01:34:55,666
 ceruloplasmin and lactoferrin.

2216
01:34:56,291 --> 01:34:56,708
 Oh, wow.

2217
01:34:56,708 --> 01:34:56,958
 I did not.

2218
01:34:57,416 --> 01:34:57,583
 Okay.

2219
01:34:57,583 --> 01:34:58,666
 I've learned some things today.

2220
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:00,708
 So if I know that, do

2221
01:35:00,708 --> 01:35:01,500
 you think they know that?

2222
01:35:02,291 --> 01:35:03,208
 Of course they know that.

2223
01:35:03,541 --> 01:35:03,916
 Yeah.

2224
01:35:04,166 --> 01:35:05,500
 We don't have, we don't

2225
01:35:05,500 --> 01:35:06,666
 just pasteurize milk now.

2226
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:08,416
 We all do pasteurize.

2227
01:35:09,291 --> 01:35:09,500
 Yeah.

2228
01:35:09,875 --> 01:35:11,416
 I still find it quite funny that people,

2229
01:35:12,250 --> 01:35:14,875
 look, I think raw milk definitely is this

2230
01:35:14,875 --> 01:35:16,416
 place, but what I find funny is that

2231
01:35:16,416 --> 01:35:17,875
 people will buy raw milk and they put it

2232
01:35:17,875 --> 01:35:18,750
 straight into their coffee.

2233
01:35:20,083 --> 01:35:22,500
 And yeah, your raw

2234
01:35:22,500 --> 01:35:23,750
 milk isn't so raw anymore.

2235
01:35:23,750 --> 01:35:25,000
 It's just milk.

2236
01:35:26,916 --> 01:35:28,375
 But that's a good, that's a very

2237
01:35:28,375 --> 01:35:30,083
 insightful observation.

2238
01:35:30,708 --> 01:35:31,750
 But the thing is,

2239
01:35:33,958 --> 01:35:37,000
 how much, how much

2240
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:39,500
 iron is in breast milk?

2241
01:35:40,458 --> 01:35:41,166
 None, I assume.

2242
01:35:41,375 --> 01:35:41,583
 None.

2243
01:35:41,958 --> 01:35:42,666
 That's exactly right.

2244
01:35:43,500 --> 01:35:45,000
 Do you think there's a reason for that?

2245
01:35:45,750 --> 01:35:46,333
 Well, there is.

2246
01:35:46,958 --> 01:35:50,375
 Because the baby, the infant human

2247
01:35:50,375 --> 01:35:52,791
 doesn't have an immune system until

2248
01:35:52,791 --> 01:35:53,666
 they're two years old.

2249
01:35:54,916 --> 01:35:56,166
 What is their immune system?

2250
01:35:56,916 --> 01:35:57,500
 Oh, yeah.

2251
01:35:57,791 --> 01:35:58,875
 It's copper driven.

2252
01:35:59,625 --> 01:36:01,583
 It's the liver, but it's copper driven.

2253
01:36:02,500 --> 01:36:05,500
 And during the height of insanity of

2254
01:36:05,500 --> 01:36:09,000
 COVID, I found 52 articles that

2255
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:10,541
 documented that copper was in

2256
01:36:10,541 --> 01:36:11,750
 charge of the immune system.

2257
01:36:13,750 --> 01:36:15,666
 COV, copper's vanished,

2258
01:36:16,250 --> 01:36:18,083
 I, B, iron's dysregulated.

2259
01:36:18,916 --> 01:36:19,333
 And so

2260
01:36:21,125 --> 01:36:24,208
 the infant, and what's the level of

2261
01:36:24,208 --> 01:36:26,041
 vitamin D in mother's milk?

2262
01:36:26,083 --> 01:36:28,583
 Actually, I don't know, a fan.

2263
01:36:29,333 --> 01:36:29,541
 Zero.

2264
01:36:30,458 --> 01:36:30,625
 Okay.

2265
01:36:31,875 --> 01:36:33,166
 Mother's milk is retinal.

2266
01:36:34,083 --> 01:36:34,375
 Yeah.

2267
01:36:34,583 --> 01:36:35,666
 No, I do know that.

2268
01:36:35,666 --> 01:36:36,041
 All right.

2269
01:36:36,041 --> 01:36:37,291
 That tracks, that makes sense.

2270
01:36:37,541 --> 01:36:38,625
 It's starting to come together now.

2271
01:36:38,958 --> 01:36:39,125
 Right.

2272
01:36:39,583 --> 01:36:42,458
 And so what's one of the most important

2273
01:36:42,458 --> 01:36:44,750
 mechanisms to make copper bioavailable?

2274
01:36:45,666 --> 01:36:46,833
 You got to have retinal.

2275
01:36:47,416 --> 01:36:47,875
 Yeah.

2276
01:36:47,875 --> 01:36:50,541
 If you don't have retinal activate the

2277
01:36:50,541 --> 01:36:52,375
 copper pumps, nothing happens.

2278
01:36:53,208 --> 01:36:56,416
 And so we live in a world now where

2279
01:36:56,416 --> 01:36:59,208
 people are afraid of, I'd like

2280
01:36:59,208 --> 01:37:00,708
 to call it unprocessed dairy.

2281
01:37:01,166 --> 01:37:04,125
 Raw sounds so crass, but it's raw dairy

2282
01:37:04,125 --> 01:37:06,458
 is where the action is.

2283
01:37:07,083 --> 01:37:08,791
 The real insult to milk

2284
01:37:08,791 --> 01:37:10,416
 was the homogenization.

2285
01:37:11,125 --> 01:37:12,708
 It was the breaking up of the fat.

2286
01:37:13,416 --> 01:37:15,625
 That's where the problems really started.

2287
01:37:16,583 --> 01:37:20,458
 But lactoferrin, very, very important.

2288
01:37:22,375 --> 01:37:24,375
 And I think one of the better articles

2289
01:37:24,375 --> 01:37:27,083
 that was written during COVID was by

2290
01:37:27,083 --> 01:37:29,125
 Douglas Kell, an etheric,

2291
01:37:32,750 --> 01:37:34,625
 blanking on her last name.

2292
01:37:36,750 --> 01:37:38,250
 In any event, Douglas Kell, I think it

2293
01:37:38,250 --> 01:37:42,541
 was 2021, talking about lactoferrin and

2294
01:37:42,541 --> 01:37:44,000
 the whole dynamic of the

2295
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,916
 viral activity during COVID.

2296
01:37:48,958 --> 01:37:51,916
 I don't have the title memorized, but it

2297
01:37:51,916 --> 01:37:53,708
 would be a wonderful article for people

2298
01:37:53,708 --> 01:37:55,916
 to familiarize themselves with because it

2299
01:37:55,916 --> 01:37:57,791
 really gets into the weeds of why

2300
01:37:57,791 --> 01:38:00,166
 lactoferrin is so important and how it

2301
01:38:00,166 --> 01:38:01,750
 interacts with ceruleplasmin.

2302
01:38:02,208 --> 01:38:03,750
 And it's like, it's really, really

2303
01:38:03,750 --> 01:38:07,458
 important, especially in those molecules

2304
01:38:07,458 --> 01:38:08,458
 that we're talking about with

2305
01:38:08,666 --> 01:38:11,291
 macrophages, which are intensely

2306
01:38:11,291 --> 01:38:13,250
 important for our health and well-being.

2307
01:38:13,958 --> 01:38:14,500
 And they are,

2308
01:38:15,666 --> 01:38:17,208
 you made the comment about

2309
01:38:17,208 --> 01:38:19,541
 ferroportin, the iron doorway.

2310
01:38:20,166 --> 01:38:23,125
 You've got to be able to, the macrophages

2311
01:38:23,125 --> 01:38:26,500
 is going to engulf the problem and then

2312
01:38:26,500 --> 01:38:28,750
 digest the problem, but it's

2313
01:38:28,750 --> 01:38:29,583
 got to get rid of the iron.

2314
01:38:30,625 --> 01:38:31,958
 It's got to get out of

2315
01:38:31,958 --> 01:38:33,541
 the, of the macrophage.

2316
01:38:33,791 --> 01:38:35,333
 And that's through a doorway called

2317
01:38:35,375 --> 01:38:38,541
 ferroportin, which requires the

2318
01:38:38,541 --> 01:38:40,333
 ferrooxidase enzyme function.

2319
01:38:41,500 --> 01:38:45,750
 And that's not openly taught in

2320
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:47,000
 practitioner school.

2321
01:38:47,708 --> 01:38:51,541
 There's no awareness of this need to have

2322
01:38:51,541 --> 01:38:54,500
 iron recycling throughout the body.

2323
01:38:55,416 --> 01:38:56,875
 And so there's a lot of confusion.

2324
01:38:57,583 --> 01:39:02,375
 And the other nuance to lactoferrin is it

2325
01:39:02,375 --> 01:39:06,166
 becomes apo and holo.

2326
01:39:07,041 --> 01:39:07,875
 Did you know that?

2327
01:39:08,500 --> 01:39:09,208
 No, I don't know.

2328
01:39:09,208 --> 01:39:10,083
 Could you explain that slightly?

2329
01:39:10,583 --> 01:39:11,250
 Apo is empty.

2330
01:39:12,500 --> 01:39:13,166
 Holo is full.

2331
01:39:14,291 --> 01:39:16,916
 So they actually sell people full

2332
01:39:16,916 --> 01:39:20,500
 lactoferrin that has iron already

2333
01:39:20,500 --> 01:39:22,416
 attached to it because

2334
01:39:22,416 --> 01:39:23,666
 we're anemic, don't you know?

2335
01:39:25,291 --> 01:39:27,666
 When in fact, what we really need is apo

2336
01:39:27,666 --> 01:39:30,791
 lactoferrin, like mother nature produces

2337
01:39:30,791 --> 01:39:33,500
 in the cattle, so that we can gobble up

2338
01:39:33,500 --> 01:39:34,958
 the iron that's the

2339
01:39:34,958 --> 01:39:37,583
 cause of all of our problems.

2340
01:39:38,291 --> 01:39:40,875
 It's iron, the concept of aging,

2341
01:39:41,458 --> 01:39:43,041
 everyone's into longevity now.

2342
01:39:43,791 --> 01:39:46,916
 All the really, you know, hip scientists

2343
01:39:46,916 --> 01:39:47,583
 are talking about

2344
01:39:47,583 --> 01:39:50,416
 longevity and reversing aging.

2345
01:39:51,666 --> 01:39:52,583
 Well, what is longevity?

2346
01:39:54,208 --> 01:39:55,333
 Lack of oxidative stress.

2347
01:39:55,625 --> 01:39:56,875
 Lack of oxidative stress.

2348
01:39:57,458 --> 01:40:00,875
 And what's another way of saying aging?

2349
01:40:02,291 --> 01:40:02,791
 Iron accumulation.

2350
01:40:03,750 --> 01:40:05,375
 Yeah, that makes complete sense.

2351
01:40:05,958 --> 01:40:06,166
 Yeah.

2352
01:40:06,416 --> 01:40:07,875
 And that's the work of

2353
01:40:07,875 --> 01:40:10,458
 Denham Harmon from 1956.

2354
01:40:11,583 --> 01:40:14,750
 He was a former, he was a PhD industrial

2355
01:40:14,791 --> 01:40:17,625
 engineer who studied oxidative stress in

2356
01:40:17,625 --> 01:40:18,541
 the industrial setting.

2357
01:40:19,333 --> 01:40:21,000
 And he thought, he was in his 30s.

2358
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:22,041
 He thought, Jim, what if

2359
01:40:22,041 --> 01:40:23,458
 this applies to humans?

2360
01:40:24,500 --> 01:40:26,083
 And so he decides to become a doctor

2361
01:40:27,291 --> 01:40:28,333
 and he goes to Stanford.

2362
01:40:28,333 --> 01:40:30,291
 So he's not your average Jim

2363
01:40:30,291 --> 01:40:32,166
 and gets his medical degree.

2364
01:40:33,041 --> 01:40:38,416
 And he creates this whole concept of the

2365
01:40:38,416 --> 01:40:40,791
 free radical theory of aging,

2366
01:40:42,291 --> 01:40:45,333
 which put the world of conventional

2367
01:40:45,625 --> 01:40:46,750
 medicine on its ear.

2368
01:40:47,875 --> 01:40:51,416
 And then 50 years later, he was 40 years

2369
01:40:51,416 --> 01:40:52,625
 old when he wrote the first article.

2370
01:40:52,916 --> 01:40:54,666
 When he was 90 years old,

2371
01:40:55,166 --> 01:40:56,916
 he updated his findings.

2372
01:40:58,666 --> 01:41:00,750
 And it's like, it's the most accepted

2373
01:41:00,750 --> 01:41:03,583
 model of aging on the planet is Denham

2374
01:41:03,583 --> 01:41:05,250
 Harmon's free radical theory of aging.

2375
01:41:05,750 --> 01:41:08,500
 And we're back to the three ring circus,

2376
01:41:09,083 --> 01:41:11,333
 iron, oxygen, and copper.

2377
01:41:12,458 --> 01:41:14,000
 We've got to manage those three elements.

2378
01:41:14,958 --> 01:41:19,833
 And that's the ultimate goal of the Root

2379
01:41:19,833 --> 01:41:21,708
 Cause Protocol is that when they are

2380
01:41:21,708 --> 01:41:23,750
 managed, you're going to make more

2381
01:41:23,750 --> 01:41:25,666
 energy, you're going to clear more

2382
01:41:25,666 --> 01:41:26,958
 exhaust, and you're

2383
01:41:26,958 --> 01:41:27,791
 going to have fewer symptoms.

2384
01:41:28,541 --> 01:41:30,166
 It's the whole basis of the argument.

2385
01:41:30,708 --> 01:41:32,791
 And it seems to bear witness in the

2386
01:41:32,791 --> 01:41:34,583
 people who do it on a regular basis.

2387
01:41:35,208 --> 01:41:36,083
 Oli, that was fantastic.

2388
01:41:36,416 --> 01:41:36,750
 Thank you.

2389
01:41:37,083 --> 01:41:38,000
 I think that's a perfect

2390
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:38,875
 place to end it as well.

2391
01:41:39,833 --> 01:41:41,375
 You were a terrific guest.

2392
01:41:41,833 --> 01:41:44,208
 I think you've already suggested as much,

2393
01:41:44,208 --> 01:41:47,375
 but where can people find you if they'd

2394
01:41:47,375 --> 01:41:48,666
 like to learn more, maybe specifically

2395
01:41:48,666 --> 01:41:50,750
 about you and your protocol?

2396
01:41:51,208 --> 01:41:51,625
 Absolutely.

2397
01:41:52,250 --> 01:41:55,041
 People are welcome to buy my book.

2398
01:41:55,375 --> 01:41:56,500
 It's called Curie Your Fatigue.

2399
01:41:56,750 --> 01:41:57,541
 There'll be a second

2400
01:41:57,541 --> 01:42:00,500
 edition coming out in November.

2401
01:42:00,875 --> 01:42:01,458
 So you can certainly

2402
01:42:01,458 --> 01:42:03,458
 enroll for the second edition.

2403
01:42:03,708 --> 01:42:05,708
 You can still buy the first if you want.

2404
01:42:07,416 --> 01:42:11,208
 The website, rcp123.org.

2405
01:42:12,125 --> 01:42:15,875
 We have a community, the RCP community,

2406
01:42:17,208 --> 01:42:19,000
 that meets every other week.

2407
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:19,208
 That's on Facebook.

2408
01:42:19,833 --> 01:42:20,000
 Yeah.

2409
01:42:20,333 --> 01:42:21,250
 It meets every other week.

2410
01:42:21,250 --> 01:42:22,166
 And people get to ask

2411
01:42:22,166 --> 01:42:24,041
 questions, and I'm always there.

2412
01:42:25,500 --> 01:42:27,541
 We have an institute where we train

2413
01:42:27,541 --> 01:42:29,000
 people about these principles.

2414
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:30,125
 It's a 16-week program.

2415
01:42:30,958 --> 01:42:32,125
 And we welcome people

2416
01:42:32,125 --> 01:42:33,083
 being a part of that.

2417
01:42:33,833 --> 01:42:36,708
 We're in class number 4,

2418
01:42:36,958 --> 01:42:39,500
 16, in group number 22.

2419
01:42:40,208 --> 01:42:41,958
 We've trained just under 1,000 people

2420
01:42:41,958 --> 01:42:44,041
 now, coming up with 900 people.

2421
01:42:44,791 --> 01:42:45,541
 Very exciting.

2422
01:42:48,708 --> 01:42:50,625
 We're on all sorts of social media.

2423
01:42:51,416 --> 01:42:53,125
 And then I always let people know that

2424
01:42:53,125 --> 01:42:55,375
 they can reach out to me personally at my

2425
01:42:55,375 --> 01:42:59,458
 email address, morleyrobins at gmail.com.

2426
01:42:59,708 --> 01:43:02,333
 Or for the brazen few that want to call

2427
01:43:02,333 --> 01:43:08,541
 me, it's ericode847-922-8061.

2428
01:43:08,916 --> 01:43:10,708
 And I've never met a question I didn't

2429
01:43:10,708 --> 01:43:13,166
 enjoy, but I appreciate the chance to

2430
01:43:13,166 --> 01:43:15,291
 help people understand these concepts and

2431
01:43:15,291 --> 01:43:16,708
 really value our time

2432
01:43:16,708 --> 01:43:18,500
 together in that regard.

2433
01:43:18,708 --> 01:43:21,250
 So thank you for the dance, if you will.

2434
01:43:22,500 --> 01:43:22,666
 Definitely.

2435
01:43:22,916 --> 01:43:24,125
 That's very gracious of you.

2436
01:43:24,125 --> 01:43:25,375
 And thank you for your time, Morley.

2437
01:43:25,375 --> 01:43:27,708
 It was an honor to speak to you.