Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to Crowd Church coming to you live
from Liverpool this Sunday night.
My name is Matt Edmundson, and whether this is your first time or whether
you've been part of our journey since the beginning, it's brilliant to be with you.
We are a community of people figuring out what it means to follow Jesus.
In real life, not the polished, perfect version, but you know, the
messy, genuine, brilliant reality of this whole thing called Christianity.
So let me give you a little roadmap of what's gonna be
happening over the next hour.
We'll have a talk, lasts about 20 minutes looking at the topic of
relationships, which is the section of our series becoming whole, that we are
looking at exploring how Christ makes us whole across every domain of life.
After the talk, we've got conversation streets.
Oh yes.
This is where we dig into what you've just heard, and you get
to be part of that discussion.
So if you're with us live, jump into the comments, share your questions,
your thoughts, and your stories.
And of course, if you are watching on Catchup or listening to the podcast, then
thanks for being part of the Crowd too.
Right?
Let's meet your hosts and let's get started.
Dan Orange: Hello and welcome to Crowd Church.
Well, it's been, this is my first time back after this summer.
Yeah,
Jan Burch: me too.
Dan Orange: And I'm joined today by Jan.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Hello everyone.
Dan Orange: How are you, Jan?
Jan Burch: I'm very well, thank you.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: Um, have you had a, had a good summer?
Jan Burch: Uh, yeah, had a lovely summer.
Um, me and my family went to Spain for, um, 10 days.
Dan Orange: Very nice.
Jan Burch: And, um, had, yeah, had a great time.
Yeah.
Yeah, I really enjoyed the the time.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Oh, brilliant.
We went to Spade for a lot less days.
We planned, I know.
We had a very eventful summer.
Yes.
That's a another story.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Sometimes, sometimes plans change.
Jan Burch: They do.
They do.
We least expect.
Dan Orange: Oh yeah.
Someone did talk to that.
Matt did a great talk about it, which we listened to as a family.
My wife.
Absolutely.
He did.
Yeah.
When we came back, no, I enjoyed them to help
Jan Burch: us.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: It was good talk.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Dan Orange: Um, today we're continuing, uh, the, the whole,
um, body series like, um, being.
And we're onto relationships.
Yeah.
So Matt did a great talk last week about adoption.
Oh, absolutely Loved it.
Jan Burch: I learned, I learned such a lot.
Dan Orange: Yeah, I, I did.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was great.
Um, and today we got the amazing day, Conley.
Woo,
Jan Burch: woo woo.
Dan Orange: Hello.
And he's gonna talk about friendship.
So looking forward to this talk.
Yeah.
Um, and next week we'll continue on with relationships.
So we're looking at marriage.
A three parts series.
Okay.
That should be interesting as well.
Yeah.
'cause the Bible's got a lot to say.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Dan Orange: About these things.
Yeah.
Um, great.
I think,
Jan Burch: yeah.
Without further ado, yes.
We
Dan Orange: go Mr.
Con State after to you, Dave.
Dave Connolly: Thank you.
Good to be, um, with you and, um, hello folks at home.
Um, trust you are having a good Sunday.
Um, we're gonna continue, um, this evening by looking up friendship as, um, Dan said,
well, it's friendship with God and um.
I wanna give you an assignment at the very beginning 'cause I'm not gonna
cover during this talk just for time's sake in the Gospel of John chapter 15.
Yes, it faces one to 15 really worth you.
Um, just taking a moment and reading it for yourself to see
what God has to say about this.
There's so much really useful material information in that portion of scripture.
I wanna start off by saying this evening that, you know, God created each of us.
For relationship with him.
And we could say that God created us for relationship, for fellowship,
for communion, and for friendship.
And um, I want to look at the word, um, friendship, um, what it looks like today.
But it is really important that when we talk about friendship
with God, we are talking about friendship with God Almighty.
You know, and if we really wanna.
Grab a hold of how amazing that is.
Just think for a moment.
The God who created the universe, Hey, how big is that Jan?
How huge is that thought?
The God who created the universe wants to be friends with little old you
and me, which just like a spec when we think about, you know, things in
the universe, but you are created.
To have relationship with God.
So it's important, you know, and we were just saying before, before we
started that, you know, friendship, um, we, it, it's a strange word, you know?
Um, you, I'm in a conversation with somebody and they're saying, oh,
I know them, they're my friends.
And as you start to talk, you realize that it's nothing more than an acquaintance.
You know, a friend is somebody that you invest time into.
You know, it's a, somebody you spend time with today.
Many of us, um, when we're talking about friendship, we
think of the program friends.
If you, you know, if you're of that era or we think about friends on Facebook
here, people say, yes, I've got x number of thousands of friends on Facebook.
Mean I don't.
Um, but, but you know, that means that the word friend has been reshaped, redefined.
Friends or people that you've took time to get to know where each
party has took time to invest.
Into each other.
There's no, there's no short way in doing that.
Friends or people that you have, you're walking through life with.
You know what, I've got one really good friend and um, I met him the
day after I became a Christian.
So you're sort of like back when I was 19 and I was 67 now and then, oh, oh,
maybe two decades ago he moved to Exeter.
Well, he moved different places, but he's in Exeter now and um, I probably
see him three or four times a year.
And because we have invested in our relationship, when we see each other,
it's just like we pick it up from where we left off and, and we deliberately
make sure we keep in contact with each other in all the different ways,
through media, et cetera, et cetera.
We pray for each other, we think about each other, so we are able to
pick up our relationships, and that means that's a value relationship.
So his son suddenly dropped dead a couple of years ago at the age of 40.
And if I hadn't have maintained that relationship with him, it would've
been very difficult to support him.
I could say all the right things like, I'm here for you, thinking
of you, I'm praying for you.
Relationships have to be, uh, sustained by investment.
Other words, spend time with each other.
Okay, let's, let's just, um, draw some things outta the Bible.
'cause the bible has a lot to say about friendship.
It models it for us.
And I'll just give you three examples straight away.
And, um, like, the first one many people will know is David and Jonathan.
Dan.
That's a, that's a great for guys, David and Jonathan to, you know.
One's a prince, future king, and the other one isn't.
Well, he is in God's eyes, but you know, not that time whether he is
two men who find partnership, they find something that connects them
and they are really connected.
I think they model a great sense of friendship there.
And then ladies, there's um, you, you read in Ruth chapter one, verse
16 and 18 about Ruth and Naomi.
Oh, wow.
What, what a lovely relationship they have.
And then if you zoom into the New Testament, you got Paul and Timothy.
Now, here's a friendship in a different way.
This is like father and son, but you know, Paul doesn't stop being a father.
To Timothy to be his friend.
And, um, you know, I think as an older man now, you know, I
sometimes think I hear, um, parents say, I want to be their friend.
You're missing out if you do.
First of all, you need to be the parent you call to be.
And friendship will naturally flow outta that.
It's true, honestly.
Um, you, you want to, you want to be friendly.
You want to be a friend.
To your children, but don't give up that wonderful privilege of being a parent.
So these three very simple ones from, um, from scripture, but what, what
about individuals and God, because, you know, um, that's what I, I just wanna
mention too here, um, God and Moses, for instance, those of you, I'm sure most
of you will know something about Moses.
And, um, you can read the Moses story in Exodus and, um.
And let me just say what it says in Exodus 33, verse 11.
Thus, the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face.
Isn't that, that's awesome.
That's awesome, isn't it?
You know this big guy, he speaks to Moses.
Face to face.
Face-to-face.
Moses was no, no one special.
Moses knew what it was to mess things up.
Moses had his great limitations just like us, but God chose
to speak to him face to face.
And I wanna tie this in that God, um, Moses knew.
The presence of God.
He knew the holiness of God.
That's why he could be called a friend of God.
And it goes on to say, as a man speaks, sorry, let say from the beginning.
Thus, the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friends.
When Moses turned again into the camp, his assistant Joshua,
the son of none, a young man.
Would not depart from his tent because you know, there's something guys, when
you know, when you, when you meet people who regularly are in the presence of
God and have some, they carry something of God, there's just something, whether
you wanna call it attractive about them, there's just something you just think,
I want to hear what they have to say.
I wanna be around them because it there something deep within each of us.
And, and there's lots we could say about Moses.
And then we could look at Abraham and I'd encourage you, um, to
check out scripture, check out the Bible, check out these stories.
Because the, I wanna clearly say, when we say stories, we're
not talking about fiction here.
Yeah, these are accounts of, um, God interacting with men and women throughout
the ages, so, you know, God and Abraham.
Um, we can read a great thing about Abraham in James chapter two, verse
23, and it says, of Abraham, and the scripture was fulfilled, which
says, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
And listen to this.
And he was called a friend of God would, I'd love to be known as a friend of God.
Dan Orange: Yes, exactly.
Isn't that just beautiful?
Dave Connolly: You know, Danny, friend of God, you know, you're like, wow.
You know, and that might mean anything to you, but, but I just
think that's an amazing statement.
He didn't say about himself.
It was written of him and, um, you know, only Abraham and Moses.
We are previously called God's Friend in scripture.
Let's talk about Jesus.
Jesus himself.
Jesus the son of God.
Distinguished between servants who follow commands without
understanding the purpose behind them.
A servant does what he's told or what is requested of them by their master.
And Jesus distinguishes the difference between servant and friend.
A friend is invited.
This is this.
I was really blessed with this, um, statement.
A friend is invited into the intimate knowledge and understanding of the
relationship and the intentions of his master, so he moves them.
Jesus moves them from being servants to being a friend.
If you think of the disciples, Jesus walked with them.
He shared his life with them.
He shared his day.
He shared all that he was doing with them.
He answered the questions.
He tolerated the frailties, but he shared all that he had with them and then
commissioned them to go and do the same.
For the brief time that we have, I wanna focus our thoughts briefly on this.
And it's about a personal relationship and friendship.
See, friendship is relationship.
Okay.
It's not, um, can I be, you know, can I click on and be your friend?
You can't have friendship without relationship.
And where we do try to have those things, we find that they're just
fickle, they're frail, you know, there's no substance to them.
Um.
So without relationship, we can never have friendship.
And God wants relationship with you and I, he wants that closeness that friends have.
You know, I, I'm so blessed that, you know, o over the years I've had
people come into my life and, um.
I, I don't know how, how good a friend they would say of me,
but they, they have been great.
They have been faithful, they have been encouraging.
They will, a friend will tell you, your frailties, your friend
should really challenge you.
And I'd say, you know, if you don't have people in your life, if you know the
Lord Jesus, and it may be true if you don't, but I'm not talking about that.
If you know, we need to have people in our lives who will tell us where we are.
Because they want the best for us, you know?
And, um, I wanna encourage you to seek out friends who will walk with you.
They'll stand with you in the hard times.
They'll rejoice with you in the great times.
We are moved from being servants to be in friends.
And let me read, um, just two verses from, um, that portion of scripture
that I meant mentioned to you before in John 15, verse 13 to 15.
It says this greater love as no man than this to lay down
one's life for one's friends.
You are my friends.
Wow.
You are my friends.
If you do what I command, I no longer call you servant because a servant
does not know his master's business.
Instead, I have called you my friend for everything that I have learned
from the father I have made known to.
You see, friends share, friend share intimacy.
They share the value things of life.
That, you know, a master does not confide in his slaves.
Understand that we are moved from being servants to being friends.
This echoes how God shares.
Um, he, he, he just shares his plans with Abraham and with Moses.
I, I, I just found that would be, I dunno, I would respond, you know,
if I saw God face to face, but you know, God will speak to you.
In ways that you understand, it may be through how you think it may be.
You know, in the stillness, it may be through creation.
He may give you a picture.
You know, he will, you know, he will speak to you very, very,
very clearly, if you will listen.
There's no greater example of true friendship than
that, what we see in Jesus.
And if any of you have ever watched, um.
Oh, it just dropped outta my head.
What's it called?
The tv um, program.
Um,
it's gone now.
It's all about Jesus, sorry.
Um, and it, it just shows Jesus's life.
Do you know which program?
I mean.
The chosen.
Thank you, Jan.
I'm having a senior moment then.
Thank you for the prompt.
Um, if any of you have ever seen the Chosen, you know, it's,
it's a dramatization, but you know what I love most about it?
That it does capture the story, but you see the interaction between Jesus
and those disciples, the ones who knew him and the ones who he didn't.
I just love it.
Because it shows the humanity of Jesus.
And it is a drama dramatization.
I understand that.
But you see the investment
in those verses there.
Talk about, you know, laying down your life for a friend.
Say again, friend.
Which is exactly what God has done for us.
Jesus who elevates his disciples from being his servants to being his friends.
It's an indication of close relationship, shared relationship, shared experiences.
It's not about knowing about Jesus, it's about sharing.
Jesus.
It's about being in.
He wants to invest in you, and you have to invest.
In him, as it were.
'cause if the relationship is too white,
I'm not talking this evening about some, um, fluffy type of relationship.
Relationships are hard work.
The moment you stop investing, you start losing.
And many of us have been here by relationships.
So we don't bother.
Especially, it's a, that might just be a guy thing.
You'll be able to tell us about that John.
Um, you know what it's like for a woman?
Almighty God has demonstrated it through the life of Jesus about drawing close,
drawing close to each other, investing in relationship, and we
can add that personal relationship, that personal, um, relationship and
friendship with Jesus the moment.
We surrender our lives to him.
And if you are a Christian, I wanna say to you, don't miss out on having a friendship
relationship with your Lord and Savior.
It's a real important part of being a Christian, having that
depth of relationship with him.
Don't miss out on it.
There's real intimacy.
I want to hear what my friends have to say.
I might always like her.
I can trust them and I'll listen and eventually it'll sink in.
'cause I trust them because they've been with me through the wonderful experiences
and they're not so wonderful experiences.
I believe friendship with Jesus can be characterized by the following.
I, I, I like to look for evidence in things like, um, you know, if somebody
says to me they're a Christian and they're being a Christian for X period
of time, I expect to see certain things in their lives transform from what they
were before to what they should be, and they should be what Jesus modeled.
So I'm always, I look for evidence.
I'm not judging, I'm looking.
And if I was judging, scripture says it's okay to judge certain things, and what I'm
saying simply there is that we're looking for something called fruits of repentance.
You can't hang out with Jesus without being convicted of your sin.
You can't hang out.
You can't give your life to Jesus and not change.
If you surrender your life to him.
You can't continue to live in bondage and walk with Jesus the
Lord of liberty and freedom.
So what am I looking for?
The characteristics of being in friendship and relationship with Jesus.
The simply, these love, trust, forgiveness, honesty, and loyalty.
And you know what?
We might like to hear this, but, but he has an expectation of me to be like that
with the people he's put in my life.
They should be received.
What I receive from him, I should be freely giving that to them.
I'm gonna say it again, love.
He loves me unconditionally.
He gives me trust, forgiveness, honesty, loyalty.
It's a relationship built on trust
and.
Amongst all this, there has to be a desire and a willingness
to draw closer, you know?
Um, as, as I've said many times, you know, I became a Christian when I was 19 and
my walk was really like a rollercoaster.
And I have to say, I suppose I was unfaithful at times.
I didn't really go with it.
But my own faithfulness was not his unfaithfulness.
He was faithful to me in my own faithfulness.
When I was walking afar from him, he was still walking close to me.
When I drifted, he drew near.
You can trust him.
The other things are that I believe that we, we see as we have real
relationship with Jesus is simply this.
His support, the knowledge that he will never leave you nor or abandon you by by.
We use the word forsake.
You know what?
That touches my heart so much that I know his support is there,
that he speaks.
Words of guidance is ever present.
Sometimes people say, you know, I, I don't feel like God is with me.
Well, there, there's lots of times there's, there's times.
I don't feel my wife loves me.
Thankfully, I know that she does because she doesn't leave me.
And her actions demonstrate a lot.
Our feelings can lie to us.
So know that the support of God is the, the, you know, his guide
and speaking the way and shown us the way his presence is assured.
He accepts you.
I was speaking to somebody today and he said, Dave, I'm not good enough.
I'm like, absolutely you're not.
I think they were a bit shocked when I said that.
That was my pa pastor's Cushing out, because that's the reality, you know?
Uh, we're not good, you know, but he is.
He is good.
Mm.
And he receives, you know, at Easter time, we have this picture of Jesus
on a cross with his arms wide open.
Those, even though he's not on the cross now, those arms are
still outstretched to you and me.
He's ready to receive you exactly as you are, exactly where you are exactly
going through what you are going through.
He says, I'm here.
Jesus asked over as obedience, you know, because he is obedient to his word.
My friends, you can count on the word of God.
You can put your trust in the word of God.
When people let me down, when situations let me down, the thing I am assured
of is that the word of God is true.
The other thing that I see in this is Prayer.
If you've got a friend and you never take time to communicate with him, you won't
have a, a, a friendship of any depth.
And we are called to be people who pray.
And you might think, oh, well, you know what?
It's not.
It's, it's, it's not a chore to speak to a friend.
There are people we meet in life and you just love being with them, you know?
And I've got a friend and when we meet, we both, I'm a chatter box, but
we both just talk at the same time.
It's just exciting being with them.
And I can't multitask, but we're multitasking in that moment
as we're talking about Jesus.
'cause we're excited about him and it works for us.
And the other thing is that, you know, Jesus has modeled to a saving hood.
And he expects us to muddle up to those around us.
And then the sacrifice,
he sat, God sacrificed his son Jesus freely, gave
himself as a living sacrifice.
And we are called to sacrifice in a whole host of ways, and that's doing
it God's way rather than our way.
It's about reaching out to people who sometimes we don't think deserve it.
Wow.
God says, love your neighbor as yourself about being patience.
That's a challenge for some of us, but you know, God can help
us with that because he says,
look at me and you.
When you don't feel patient, when you are feeling frustrated, just press the
Rewind button and say, God, show me.
Show me those times when you being patient and kind and tolerant of me
when I've really not deserved it.
And that should strengthen us and encourage us to reach out to others.
I am a friend of God.
Um, wow.
That's, that's a, that's a big thing.
And um, you know what I've said, whatever God is doing towards
us is goodness and kindness.
We need to look and see.
Are we mirroring that too?
Other people around us.
Let me conclude with this.
What does the Bible say about the friend of God's statements, the Bible phrase,
friend of God, it's found in James 2 23.
Already before, but in closing, let me say this, and the scripture was
fulfilled, that says of Abraham.
Abraham believed God.
It was counter to him, righteousness, believed God, putting your trust in
God, and he was called a friend of God.
Our father, God longs to call you friend.
Dan Orange: Wow.
Thanks Dave.
I love that.
I love, yeah.
Well, let's, let's get into it, but I just wanna start right, right at the beginning.
I love that, that we are created to have a relationship.
It talks, isn't it?
Like before sin came into the world, God came down and, and, and they talked.
I love that.
That loved it.
Yeah.
That was our, that's our design.
That's, that's part of who we are to be.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Relationship with each other and relationship with.
With God friend.
Can you
Dave Connolly: imagine then just walking through the garden, can you
just, even if you're just looking in and God is chattering away.
Yeah,
Jan Burch: I love that.
Yeah.
Dave Connolly: No effort.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: Adam's able to talk, but the he knows he got a creation.
Yeah.
He's talking to him.
Wow.
Lovely.
Dan Orange: There's so many questions, isn't there that you'd, that you'd have,
um,
the.
Oh, sorry.
Someone, someone's calling me.
Um, it's God.
Yeah.
What, what, what jumped, jumped out at you, Jan?
Jan Burch: I meant all of it.
Um, I think it's a bit like, um, when we talk about father having God as our
father and we think about earthly fathers, sometimes I, I sometimes think, um.
Friendship with God.
Um, I can relate, I can think back to.
Friendships I've had in the past that there's still, you know,
from when I was little Yeah.
In school, that were, um, you know, weren't very loving.
Um, and sometimes I think I've, you know, we can carry those things through our
life as into adulthood, but it's, it's what Sharon talked about a few weeks ago.
It's about renewing our mind and trust.
Um, that whole thing, trusting that God especially will not hurt us or
embarrass us or, you know, ridicule us in any way, whereas a friend
in the past will or has, yeah.
Not saying it's happened a lot, but, you know, we remember those
things, but I just love the fact that it, we can't comprehend it.
That the God who put the stars in the sky and called them each
by name wants to be my friend.
Yeah.
It's like, how can you even see me?
It's like, you know, um, I just think it's, it's beautiful.
Yeah.
It's beautiful.
Dan Orange: It, it, it takes that.
I think this is where there's lots of, there's lots of things
where Christianity differs from other religions and thinkings.
Yeah.
But it's that there's no dictatorship, is that you can't, you're not a friend
with a dictator, you're not friend with just someone that just gives
out laws and has these commandments.
They're just, there we're, we are friends with God.
We can, we can ask him things, we can struggle.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I, I, I like that with, I like the Psalms because David has that
struggle and you can't do that if, if it's not a friendship, can you?
Yeah.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Dan Orange: You got to have that ability to be able to, to, yeah.
To struggle and question.
And the
Dave Connolly: dictator doesn't want you to be his friend.
He's just really wants you to.
Support, whatever Izzy's doing, you are an asset.
We are here.
Mm-hmm.
God has created us.
And, um, I think Jan, you know about, I'm sure we've all had experiences, um,
you know, with people around us and, and, and maybe we feel they've let us down or
they've failed us or, or whatever it is.
Or maybe we've failed them.
Yeah.
I think what helps me when I start to rationalize is they're not God.
They're just a frail human being.
Yeah.
They may be redeemed and loved by God, but God isn't them.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
And
Dave Connolly: God is perfect.
He's all knowing.
He is all loving.
And that's why there, there is a difference and that, and you know how
we see in Jesus with the disciples.
Mm-hmm.
That's the model that we ought to pursue and I'm sure we, we mess it up many times.
But you know, being a friend of God, he's the payback one.
Yeah.
You know, and he's called us.
Yeah.
You know, to be your friend.
I know.
It's incredible.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
It is.
Dan Orange: That relationship, I just want to go back to that, you know, DIC
talking about dictatorship, it's something we might not experience, but, but I
think sometimes we do with social media.
Mm-hmm.
We look at people and they are dictators.
They don't wanna be our friends.
They just want to put their.
Opinion.
Yeah.
And we might think, oh, I like them.
Influencers.
Yeah.
Influencers.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And how different to have a good friend, not an influencer.
Um, we, this morning we went for breakfast with Matt and Sharon, my, me and my wife.
And, and it was just a friendship.
We, we went and we talked and we can challenge each other.
Can learn more about each other.
Yeah.
And that.
That, that example, that that's what we can do.
You know, with God, we learn more, more about him and we
can be challenged as well.
And you don't have
Jan Burch: to be on your best behavior or you know, he sees it's the good, the bad,
you know, he sees the ugly side of us.
He's, you know, crying.
He's seeing you when you're being at your nastiest and you
know, he see, he sees it all and.
Still wants to be your friend.
Yeah, yeah.
Which is just, just ama, he's not a fair weathered friend ever, ever.
I, I think he see
Dave Connolly: it, Jan, I think, you know, with father got, he see us at our worst.
Yeah.
And I think as, as he sees us at our worst.
We, we become aware of that and mm-hmm.
And there's almost like, there's a challenge, oh, how
can you love me like this?
This is, well, I love you.
And that's not giving us permission to carry on No.
With, you know, poor behavioral, bad decision.
No.
There's a challenge.
And he loves me in spite of that.
Yeah.
I'm gonna fix that.
Yeah.
I'm gonna surrender it to him.
Mm-hmm.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
I, I think what you said about um.
Having a fear of God, that whole, um, reverence and um, mm-hmm.
You know, the fear of God brings us closer.
And I say that we're not on our best behavior, but we, he calls
us to be the best version of us.
Yeah.
Doesn't it?
Yeah.
It's a, I dunno if it was yourself or Nick Harding, one of the pastors in the past.
From here years ago, um, used to say we've become like those we spend time with.
And that's true.
Is so true.
And I loved what you said about people that we know who spend
time in the presence of God.
You can absolutely feel it.
Absolute.
Yeah.
You, I'm very aware of that.
Um, you know.
Very recently, I, every time I went to someone's house, I just started
crying and I wasn't sad, you know, but there was just a presence of God there.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And, um, that, that was, I really loved what you said about that.
I'm gonna think about that moment.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: We've got, um, we've got loads to talk about.
We've got lots of of questions and comments.
And I just wanted started with, um, uh, a lady called Heather.
Has put in the comments, Noah.
Um, and she's put, this seems quite strange to talk about friendship
because I think the reason I found myself here is through the loss of
my best friend who died last year.
This is my first visit to Crowd and it's through her that I'm here and
this, I feel is a move of healing.
Isn't that amazing?
To come, come today.
So welcome, Heather.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for Welcome.
For coming along.
Um, oh.
And yeah.
That, that friendship doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't die, doesn't
it like a earthly friendship.
It, we've, we've learned from it and we, it's still part of who we are.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Heather, thanks for joining us.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, part of the loss that you're feeling is because you valued your
friend so much and, and it, and it, it's.
Sounds strange to say, but it's right for us to feel that depth of, of loss because
you had a bond, you had a friendship.
You will have had different experiences in that.
And, um, you know, I, I would just pray, you know, how did that in this season that
you would know God drawing closer to you?
Yeah.
And that he would walk through this sea.
It's not, it's not.
Get over that.
Mm-hmm.
Is as you walk through that season, you know, um, SCRI, as I mentioned
before, he says, I'll never leave you or abandon you, and he just wants
to walk through this season, be and recognize how you valued your friend.
He says, I value you.
Mm-hmm.
And just let him draw close to you and he's ready to draw.
Close as you are ready.
So God bless you, Heather.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: Um, someone also, which we, we sort of answered this, this, um, question,
but they said, how is being God's friend different from just being his follower?
I think we sort of answered it really, haven't we?
That
Jan Burch: mm-hmm.
It's quite different.
Isn't Yeah.
Dan Orange: There is c is relationship.
Yeah.
It's a two way, yeah.
Yeah.
The, the two way part of something.
Dave Connolly: It's a little bit like, you know, um.
Looking, looking in, you know, um, and then actually engaging.
Um, you'd have to define what you mean by follower, you know, for me
to be able to answer that properly.
Um, 'cause some people believe in God.
Yeah.
But they have no capacity or desire to live for him.
And being a follower of Jesus is about somebody who was surrendering
their own plans, their own ways, et cetera, to follow him wholeheartedly.
And we'd have to define what we mean by wholeheartedly, but don't look,
don't look on and think, oh, that, that sounds great, blah, blah, blah.
You know, God wants you to, he wants to walk with you,
just like with the disciples.
He had a different relationship with each of those disciples.
Yeah.
But they all walked with him and engage with each of them.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: Here's, here's another question as well.
Um, if God already know, God already knows everything about us.
Why does he want friendship?
Why not just just worship?
Jan Burch: Because he, he just enjoys spending time with us.
I think, um, you know, I, I know, you know, I, I know my children really well.
Um, but I actually, part of that is, is is enjoying who they are and being with them.
Yeah.
That's good.
Um.
And I think it's the same for God.
I think, you know, God, I mean, it is mind blowing, but God
actually enjoys being with us.
Yeah.
And obviously it's not a, you know, physically in the same room
at the moment, in, you know, in eternity it will be different.
But at the moment we can, we can feel the presence of God.
And we know that we can make him happy and we can, um, you know, God
laughs um, he laughs at my jokes in particular, and I know that for sure.
I think he does.
He does.
He told me.
He told me he didn't understand them.
Um, so I, I think it's a, you know.
Yes, he en enjoys our worship.
He, but he actually just really likes hanging out with us.
Dave Connolly: Yeah, yeah.
Like we know each other.
Yeah.
Don't we?
You know, and I don't see you guys as, as much now.
Um, but we have a, we have a history together.
And, um, so I know somebody said, oh, you know, Jano, you know, do you know Dan?
I'm like, yeah, of course.
Do.
I knew them really well in, in that season.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I still know you.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, so God is worthy of our worship 'cause of who he is and
for what he's doing in our lives.
Yeah.
That's completely different than I have a personal relationship.
Yeah.
That's why I worship him.
I can, you know, there's loads of illustrations that we can give.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it's not about knowing about him.
It's that personal thing.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Yeah.
And.
Do.
This is perhaps, um, something for, for people that they've been to church, but
that the church they've been to is perhaps quite, quite a high church or quite, um, a
lot of, of, a lot of procedure and words.
Do you think that calling God your friend is a bit too, um,
sort of casual or irreverent?
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
I think in because what type of church you go to, I think it's about your heart.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: Some people, you know, bang on about, um, a friend of God and they
have no understanding of the aura of God.
Yeah.
Yes.
You know, and it's a bit like you need to reverence him.
Yeah.
You know, this has got almighty, you need to reverence him.
And that aid us in having a friendship.
We may have like if, if, if the Prime Minister.
It was, um, was he's the Prime Minister and if he was my friend
and, um, you know, he would still be the Prime Minister and I would want
yeah, to call him Prime Minister.
We had Cheryl Blair, um, Sherry Blair come here.
And, um, she kept talking about this guy called Tony and she
said, oh, give him a ring, Dave.
You know, I'm sure he can help you.
And he kept talking about Tony and, and I'm like, what's his surname?
And, and she was lovely, you know, and I'm like, Tony, who?
And she goes, Blaine.
I'm like, you should have said the prime minister.
You know, because there's that, that.
There has to be that reverence.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of, of the position.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, um, I didn't call him by the way, um, but it, it
is understanding who God is Yeah.
To connect with him.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
And we were talking just before we, we, we did talk about a friendship.
If it, if it doesn't have that reverence and it doesn't have that honesty.
It loses its power, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Dan Orange: You can, you can break a friendship if you are not honest.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Dan Orange: With someone.
If you are not open, if you are, you lose that closeness.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And that flippancy can, can, can destroy that.
The strength of a, a friendship.
Yeah.
Jan Burch: Even a, an earthly, you know, human friendship.
There has to be respect.
Yeah.
Yes.
There has to be, there have to be boundaries there.
Mm.
You know, we, you can't just say anything you want That's right to anyone.
And expect, you know, them to, you know, dismiss it or walk away or whatever.
We have to show our friends should be someone that we honor, that
we, you know, really respect and want to, uh, speak kindly of.
And too, and obviously our relationship with God is, is based
on firstly, you know, absolute.
On your knees amazement that he's interested in you.
Yeah.
But there has to be respect there.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Yeah.
That's good.
Um, Heather's just replied back saying, um, she's really grateful Dave for, for
that, for understanding where she's Yeah.
Where she's coming from.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Mm.
And don't rush it, Heather.
Honestly, you know, God just wants to walk.
Today, we live in 90, everything's 99 miles an hour.
It's almost get over thing.
And, and Jesus, that's not how Jesus works.
He's like, I'll walk with you Sometimes you'll know my closeness sometimes.
You won't feel me there at all, but you need to be assured I'm there.
I know.
And he, you know, scripture talks about, um, the God of all comfort.
Jan Burch: Mm-hmm.
Dave Connolly: And, and it's really interesting that, uh, um,
you know, God wants to comfort you if you find that scripture.
Um, it, it talks about that God wants to comfort you in order that he will bring
people across your path and you'll be able to comfort them, not from a theory.
From, from a personal experience?
Yeah.
That you yourself have known the comfort of God with you
through this horrendous time.
There are no words to say.
There are no words, you know, besides, you can trust him.
Jan Burch: Mm-hmm.
Amen.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: Um, sorry.
There's this question sort of how we develop our friendship with God and, and
Psalm 20, um, five 14 says, the friendship of the Lord is for those who fear him.
Yes.
And he makes known to them his covenant.
So he reveals himself through that friendship.
Yeah.
Dave Connolly: So it's where we started.
Yeah.
Awe of God.
Yeah.
You know, and God isn't asking for permission.
I think we need, you know, this, why we need to know the awe of God.
You know, that He, he, he's not gonna adapt his word in and around our life.
His word does His Word.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: And, you know, that can be life to us.
Yeah.
You know, he can bring us peace.
It can, it can guide us through the most darkest times and, um, through the,
you know, serious difficulties and, um.
Yeah, that's a, that's a great verse.
Can you read it again then?
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Um, the friendship of the Lord is for those who fear him.
Wow.
And he makes known to them his covenant.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: Um, Ellis said, he said he likes this idea of respect.
You, you can love your parents and get along with them, but
they're still your parents.
Um, and there's a way to be around them and a respect they have for them.
And I think that's that's true.
And that's something, something that.
That we need to, to have that respect for God and, and me as a parent,
I need to know that, like you, you said, we want to be friends with
our kids, but we are their parents.
We have a, we have a responsibility, we have a, that relationship is,
Jan Burch: it's a boundary there.
Dan Orange: A boundary.
Yeah.
And that, that, that.
That disappears sometimes in this, this day and age, doesn't it?
Dave Connolly: It does.
And, and we become over familiar.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: And that's why, you know, John said this
several times about boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
You know, sometimes you, people think you don't.
We we're friends, you know, I can say anything.
Where I don't think we can say anything.
I think we need to have a respect.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Where we're aware of people's, but say, you know, would it be okay then, you
know, would it be okay to share this Yeah.
With you, you know, and weigh it.
I love to add that, you know, just weigh what I'm saying here.
Yeah.
And um, you know, I believe it's true, otherwise I wouldn't be saying it.
But you need to take responsibility for that.
Yeah.
And I'm saying it because I have a conviction about it, and, and I love you.
But you need to weigh that before you do anything with us.
Yes.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
And, and a friendship sort of grows if it sees.
The same.
Um, it, see, it sees you doing the same thing that you would to, to someone else.
Like you said, love yourself as, um, as you love others.
We seeing God, what he, he's modeled, he's modeled what a friend
should be, what a sacrifice is.
And as we are friends to others, if, if we model that, that'll be stronger.
Yeah.
When they, when they see it in us, you know, they, they'll take it on more.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I think.
For me, it's really important.
If you wanna see how you're doing with your relationship with God,
I'll look how you are and how you respond with the people around you.
But you know, if you don't love you, if you don't value yourself and if
you don't care for yourself, how what you do unto others won't be good.
Dan Orange: Yeah,
Dave Connolly: it's 'cause it's a bit like, um, I dunno best to
describe it, but some of us, we spiritually and emotionally, self harm.
I know that sound, but we do.
Yeah.
And we damage ourselves and we injure ourselves.
So when we see those things in other people, we're harsh.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dave Connolly: And that's because that's just a glimpse
of how we are with ourselves.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
I think that's true.
I've heard, um, many people say, um, you should speak to
yourself like you would a friend.
You know, we can say, I'm stupid, I'm ridiculous.
I'll never do this properly.
But if it was a friend that had come to you saying those things, you'd be like,
don't you dare say that about yourself.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think we, we have to learn that and, and practice that.
Yeah.
Dan Orange: That's good.
I don't, yeah, that's very good.
Yeah.
That's a very good point that, yeah.
Um.
I, I wrote down through the talk this, that should,
does God expect this love and, and loyalty from us?
Uh, um, and should we, I don't really know what, what I'm
saying, just that, that, um,
a relationship to grow.
Needs loyalty, doesn't it?
It needs consistency.
Yeah.
Um, but it also feeds off as well.
The more time you spend with someone, the gra greater you get to know them.
The more you want to know them, the more you you learn.
Dave Connolly: Yeah.
I, I used to have a friend up, Mike, sorry, you still a friend in, in America.
And um, and, and he used to say to me frequently, he used say, Dave.
And it usually was after we'd been in a really good meeting, you know, and God
had done amazing things and, you know, we'd be going home, we'd be having a,
something to eat and drink and, and he, he and He'd plums, and I'm talking
about, he would frequently say to me, Dave, why do you want to be my friend?
And I'm like, my best answer at this moment, I'm not sure, but before you
started this little thing, it was because.
I just like being with you.
Yeah.
I, I don't want anything of you, you know, I just like being with you.
I enjoy being with you.
Yeah.
And that relationship's been 25 years, but I can think of three occasions it nearly
finished because he, he just, if this thing, why do you want to be my friend?
Uh, and and that says more about him.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Yeah.
Dave Connolly: But it does put security.
A pressure Yes.
On me, if that makes sense.
You know, so we need to be, you know, we need to love ourselves rightly.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, and, you know, I wanna give people my best.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: Um, and I wanna be genuine.
I want, I want to be real.
And, um, and I know we're all wired differently.
Okay.
Um, but for me, it's important that we are authentic and that we are real, but
we take responsibility for what we say.
Do.
Of course.
I think, yes.
Yeah.
Jan Burch: It's a mature maturity, isn't it?
Yeah, that's, yeah.
The the other thing I was thinking before was, um, you know, even though Jesus
was, as Dave said, he had a different relationship with each of the disciples,
and we know he had a special friendship with Lazarus and Mary and Martha.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, he.
We know that they were his friends before, um, the disciples came along.
Um, but the, the point I'm gonna make, uh, is that Jesus didn't spend
every second of every day with them.
Yes, he, he did go to be on his own to speak with his father.
So what I mean is you can still be a really good friend, but not
live in each other's pockets.
Yeah.
Um, and that, you know, that's good news for me because, um,
I'm busy and I, I can't, I'm just not that I need my own space.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, so that's not a, um, condemnation for people.
I'm not a good friend because I don't call up someone every day,
or I don't go around every day.
That That's okay.
Most of us probably don't.
Dave Connolly: There's a, there's a great illustration just in that Jan,
um, if, if you look at Jesus's story are key times, like where he's about
to do something really important.
He needed a safe place.
Yeah.
And it was always with Lazarus and the ladies, eh, Miriam, Martha, you
know, um, it was really important that that was his safe place.
Yeah.
'cause they knew him so well.
He was just, it was just different, you know, it was his.
It was just a, a safe place for him to go.
Yeah.
And he's moving from being, can you imagine with pizza,
how, where, when, what, why?
Yeah.
And how, where, what?
Well, I've just answered you, you weren't listening, you know?
Yeah.
And.
And that's what the relationships are different.
Absolutely.
You know, um, and it, there's a, there's a book called, um, 12 Ordinary
Men by a guy called John MacArthur.
And it tells you, um, about the disciples.
You know, it talks about them as individuals.
It's, it's, it's, oh, I love that.
About two decades old.
It's great.
I love that.
And, um, and it fills in some of the gaps.
You know, but what it highlights a little bit like the chosen, if I'm honest.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you can, and it, again, it is a dramatization, okay?
Mm-hmm.
But there's just showing you the interaction.
Yeah.
The human of each of God.
You know, little James, I love her.
Oh yeah.
I'm just love him.
Mm.
You know, am minor a character in some ways, but his
interaction with Jesus is soap.
Personal.
Yeah.
And specific.
And then you've got Peter here and Matthew.
Oh yeah.
It it's just so wonderful.
Yeah.
And even though it is a dramatization, I'd encourage you, you, you, you
can learn something of the Hall of God through that program.
Yeah.
I love, I love that.
Dan Orange: Yeah.
Um, Heather mentioned that she'd in the past had like a, an arms
length relationship with God.
Um, so I was just thinking, Dave, how, how can you have a closer.
Dave Connolly: Yeah, we, we all have a history, you know, Heather
and um, and, and, and we all have like social unique personalities.
But, um, for me, my background is I was a mess.
Mm-hmm.
And I was very is I did, I grew up in a family where that I didn't
live with, didn't really know.
So, um.
I was just a mess.
I didn't have, I didn't really understand what love was.
I didn't understand people being nice to me, so I would hold
myself away from everybody before they had chance to reject me.
And, um, so I thought, um, when I become a Christian, um, I was very fortunate
to be taught that God loves me and that he didn't wanna love me from afar.
And that the relationship that he wanted with, with me was personal and
he wanted me to draw close to him.
And, um, you know, I love scripture says, you know, he, he, scripture says, draw
close to God, and he'll draw close to you.
If we live our lives from a distance, we have a distance relationship.
And I would encourage you as you open up, as you walk through this
really difficult season of your life.
Invite God into it.
You know, one of my prayers and when I first became a Christian, and I still
use it quite a lot, and that is, God, you know how I'm feeling and if you're
there, I need you draw close to me and God will speak to you however you
are wide, whether it's through your thinking or you know, people say, you
know, I've got this impression or I felt in my heart or in my mind, and
God will speak to you through that.
But listen, if you ask, listen.
And honestly I believe that you'll be, uh, messaging in
saying he's drawn close to me.
'cause he always honors his word.
That, that yeah.
I can guarantee he always, always, always honors his word.
Mm-hmm.
And he will draw close to you.
Dan Orange: Wow.
Thanks.
Thanks very much.
Thanks Dave.
Thanks Jan.
Thank you Dave.
Um.
We are gonna finish tonight's, um, live stream.
But before, before we do just wanna say that if you want to talk
afterwards, um, the link is on the comments for the Google meet.
Um, and we just have a, a few minutes join us afterwards that we can, you know.
Just chat face, face to face.
Mm-hmm.
Visual, you know, virtually face to face.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, thanks very much and I'm already looking forward to next week.
Yeah.
Relationships, what we're designed for.
Yeah.
So anything you want to say before we No,
Jan Burch: just, um, hope everyone has a great week and, um, invest in your
relationship, your friendship with God.
Dave Connolly: Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I would just say.
God is good.
Yeah.
Amen.
And he wants to be good to you.
Amen.
Brilliant.
Bye.
Thank you.
Bye
bye.
Bye.