Welcome to Theology Throwdown.

We, the Christian podcast community of podcasters, gather to discuss our theological differences with love and charity.

This is a ministry of striving for eternity.

Well, welcome to another Theology Throwdown where those of us, the Christian podcast community get together, discuss a topic, and when we disagree, we try to do that in love and charity.

But maybe this one won't have that happen because, well, we are going to talk about holiday traditions and I am the Grinch that stole Christmas trees.

At least that's my guess.

But let us start off by introducing those who are here.

We have a couple of us.

So Eve, I will let you get started.

Certainly.

So I'm Eve Franklin and I am the co host of the podcast Are youe Just Watching?

In which we talk about movies and other forms of entertainment from across Christian worldview.

And we're not there just ripping it to shreds, we're just we.

We typically like to pick movies we enjoy so that we can say good things about it as well as rip it to shreds over their secular worldview.

But other than that, that's what we do.

And if you like long form podcasts, ours usually run in slightly over an hour and we do it once a month.

And my co host is Tim Martin and I'm also an admin of the Christian podcast community, which we hope you would join and listen to all of our wonderful podcasts.

I am excited because I hope that soon you're going to do There is a new movie I guess that either came out.

No, no, it's probably been out for a long time.

It's was just recently I heard on Netflix but you got me into watching one called Knives out which actually was a really enjoyable movie.

I watched it on a flight.

I actually watched it twice going somewhere and coming back.

It was a lot EAS when you knew who done it and so I'm looking forward to.

To that this I guess sequel to it.

That's that just came out on Netflix and so I was thinking of actually watching it because I heard that was.

That was on.

So I was thinking of oh, maybe I'll go figure out how to watch that.

So.

Sounds fun.

You'll probably do an episode on that.

The sequel wasn't as good as the first one, but it was, it was.

It was bad.

Wasn't bad my opinion.

Aaron, how about you introduce yourself and your podcast.

My name is Aaron Brewster.

I have one podcast called Truth Love Parent that's all about parenting in Truth and Love, the kind that we read about in EPHESIANS chapter four, where we're supposed to be building each other up, knitting each other up into the head.

Who is Christ, that is.

We've have over 600 episodes.

Super excited about that coming up in September of 2026, hitting our 10th full year of PODC podcasting.

So really excited about that mile marker.

The other podcast actually is really cogent to today's conversation.

It's called the Celebration of God.

And we step through the Christian holiday calendar as well as look at our typical average days and ask ourselves, how can we worship God better?

We talk a lot about what we do during these holidays, these holy days, because so often what was intended to have been a time to celebrate and worship God actually has just become so secularized and self focused that it's really good to take these opportunities to refocus them.

Worship they're supposed to be.

So I hope you guys will check out that particular podcast can be really valuable during the holidays to kind of shake up us out of the rut that sometimes we get into.

But yeah, I'm super excited about today's topic because I think I probably represent the opposite views of everything Andrew's going to say.

And I am Andrew Rapworth, the host of Apologetics Live and Andrew Rappaport's Rap Report and, well, kind of the host of this one.

I also am the.

Well, I'm the executive director of Christian Podcast Community, so I'm one of the admins and I know Aaron spoke of his, his podcast on the Celebration of God.

He came to my church.

He's one of our speakers at Striving Fraternity.

He came to my church and did a seminar at my church and one of the ladies in my church got turned on to the Celebration of God and just loves that podcast.

She, she binged the whole thing.

So that was nice.

So we have been.

So I just realized as you guys were talking, we've been podcasting for a while now.

I, I guess I started podcasting eight or nine years ago.

So Aaron, you are on 10 years, but you and I are both beat by Eve who started what, like probably 2009.

2009.

She's got to be beat by five years.

Yeah, not bad.

Yeah.

No, no, seven.

No, no.

She's gonna give you by seven years.

Yeah, yeah.

So well done.

Eve started when podcasting was just starting out.

I can't take credit with, with the hall of Famer Daniel J. Lewis.

Yes.

I was pulled into podcasting with Daniel Lewis, so it was not me.

He's.

He set it all up.

He did all the recording, he did all the editing.

I think I did the show notes that was about.

Showed up and put my voice on the audio.

So we're, We.

We decided we would do a topic less.

Well, where we thought there'd be less disagreement, but maybe not on.

On holiday traditions.

And so the, the joke for those listening, why, if I'm saying I'm the Grinch that stole Christmas trees, and Aaron says he's going to disagree with me, for those listening to the podcast, he's got this nice, you know, holiday sweater on with deers and, you know, trees and lots of colors.

Yeah, green and red.

Lots of green and red.

So I.

For those who may not know, so I grew up in a Jewish home.

I grew up.

This time of the year.

Today would be the second day of Hanukkah.

And so I grew up with a menorah.

I did not grow up with a Christmas tree.

And I just.

I don't know what it is about Christians that they feel that I have to have a Christmas tree.

When, When I was single, when I got married, when I had kids, those were the three reasons, I guess.

I was always told I needed a Christmas tree.

Now I don't have any kids, and I made a comment that I don't have.

I don't have a Christmas tree.

We moved, and I don't have a Christmas tree.

And.

And I was told by several people I must have a Christmas tree.

And so I've asked the question online, which I just didn't realize the blowback I was gonna get from it.

But I asked the question, if someone can explain why I need a Christmas tree, other than the fact that it's nostalgia for you.

And I got a lot of interesting things, but nothing that tells me why I need one.

Now, I'll say, like, I. I've said this, this, this past weekend, I was with folks, I said, look, my bride didn't grow up with a Christmas tree, but she likes it.

She just likes to decorate.

And so we did have a Christmas tree because she wanted one.

I don't care about it, but I will be.

I'm happy to set one up and help her decorate it because it makes her happy, but I personally see no need for a Christmas tree.

So call me the Grinch all you want, Mr. Brewster.

Well, you know, I, I'm not going to argue that you need a Christmas tree.

That would definitely be stepping outside of the bounds of what a Christian utilizing the word of God should ever tell a person.

So I'm not going to tell you.

That without telling me that.

How about you tell me that?

No, no, no, I'm not.

I am not going to tell you.

You need one.

It is it.

You can glorify God without a Christmas tree.

It is true.

You can do it.

But.

But mean it's a bad idea.

It doesn't mean you can't glorify God with one.

So yeah, I actually I did block someone or at least unfriend them who just went to town on like every person that gave me a reason, a positive reason for Christmas tree.

He was just posting about Jeremiah and that Christmas trees are.

Prove that people aren't saved and things like that.

And I'm like, wow.

I was like, okay, dude, Jeremiah had.

There was no such thing as a Christmas tree in Jeremiah's day.

Okay.

That wasn't a thought.

What Jeremiah is speaking about is not a Christmas tree, it's an idol.

Yeah.

So, yep.

It's like, so that's where people stretch.

That's.

I will defend that one.

Be like, no, Jeremiah's not speaking that.

But you know, I'll start with Eve.

Eve you.

What kind of, what kind of traditions do you have at this time of year?

Well, I was raised in a Christian home with Christmas trees.

We always had artificial trees.

I, I actually am personally against cutting a tree down and bringing it into the house to die and, and drop, you know, petal or what do you call needles all over the pine needles all over the floor and become a fire hazard as it dries out.

If I'm going to have a live tree, it will be a live tree that can be planted in my yard when I'm done that has roots, but I've only done that a couple times.

So I like artificial trees.

And we always did Christmas Day.

We never believed in Santa Claus in my house.

I always knew that mom got up in the middle of the night and put stuff in our stockings and actually usually early morning because she beat us up in the mornings.

But she beat you up in the mornings.

I thought the exact same thing.

She beat you to be awake.

She was awake before you.

Yeah, yeah.

She was always an early riser, so she'd get up earlier than we did.

And which is hard on a Christmas morning when kids want to see what's under the tree and what's in their stocking and everything.

But.

But yeah, we always kept it fairly low key in our family.

Typically mom would make us eat breakfast before we could open gifts.

And we typically did them one at a time because we were never very wealthy.

So there Weren't always gobs of presents under the trees.

It was more like one each.

And so we'd take our time.

But yeah, as adults, my brother and I, neither of us got married and had children.

So it's kind of a fading tradition in our family.

In fact, in order to have Christmas with my brother, we actually met with him the Saturday before Thanksgiving because he was going to be traveling all of the month of December.

So it, the day is not that important to us.

It's more of getting together, spending some quality time as a family.

And that's I guess where our traditions are.

It's, it's pretty low key, not super like decorate everything.

My tree that I have up behind me, which is not because I'm not on video, you can't see it.

It's actually what I call my miniature six foot tree.

It's a three foot tree done up with miniature ornaments.

So if you scale it just correctly, it will look like a six foot tree.

But I just put a bag over it every year.

I don't even undecorate it.

I just stick up a bag over it and stick it in the closet and pull it out at Christmas time.

So I don't spend a ton of time decorating either.

But I do.

Isn't that supposed to be all the fun, the decoration?

Well, no, not, not really.

Okay.

But I do like to make candy and make little gifts for my co workers and that kind of thing.

So it's.

To me, it's more of giving to others than it is about what my house looks like because I live alone, so who cares?

But me, I, you know, you, you mentioned something that we'll get into maybe.

Well, we'll do it.

Now you mentioned that about knowing that Santa wasn't real.

And I, my kids, you know, we would play.

Okay, there's Santa, things like that if they wanted to.

But we always made sure that they knew he wasn't real.

Because my experience, kindergarten, sitting there, I still remember this girl who was so excited because Santa Claus was going to come down her chimney.

And, and I just looked at her.

We just complete, I want to say innocence in my part, but growing up Jewish, I was just like, there's no such thing as Santa Claus.

Like, I knew that was a thing that the, and I just didn't make any difference between Christian, Catholic, it was, I just thought that's what the Catholic people do.

And so she was like, no, there is a Santa Claus.

I put cookies out and he eats them.

And I'm like, that's probably your parents.

They're the ones that are putting the gifts under the tree.

And, well, I guess she went home that night and told her parents about this guy, this kid in school who said, there is no Santa Claus.

And I guess they decided she's old enough to know the truth now.

And so she came back to school the next day, bawling her eyes out at me, blaming me for ruining.

And I'm like, I'm not the one that made this up.

And I just decided right then and there I'm never going to do that to my kids.

And so, you know, but so the, so let me ask the question just, and I'll ask it, Aaron, of you first, and then you can share what your holidays are with your holiday traditions are.

But then add on to that, is it wrong to.

And, and you're the, you're our ACBC counselor and, you know, have a podcast on parenting.

So.

Although I already have heard the episodes.

So what is, what's your view?

Should we tell our kids that there's really a Santa Claus or should we not?

So I, I, it's kind of silly.

It's kind of crazy.

It's a little outside the box thinking, but I'm kind of convinced that I can make a good argument from the scripture that we probably shouldn't be lying to our kids.

You know, we kind of did the same thing with, like, our, our kids.

I mean, we watch all the Santa Claus movies.

We think they're a lot of fun.

I've played Santa Claus on stage.

I've played it in, you know, people's houses.

Right.

I've done community events as Santa Claus.

I just don't picture that because you're, like, super thin and, yeah, you're starting to get a little white in your beard, but it's nowhere near Santa Claus level.

You, you'd be impressed.

It's.

And it's a big, beautiful costume, too.

So, like, as, as somebody who's an actor, as somebody who does things like that, I, I think it's great to, to pretend and to have fun with these, with fictional ideas and things like that, but to tell our children, all my kids, actually, they had way more fun with the Tooth Fairy than they ever had with Santa Claus.

They didn't really care about the Santa Claus playing that.

But the Tooth Fairy was hilarious because of what my wife did with it.

But they always, that's like begging for us to ask you, what did she do?

Now you realize that.

Well, no, she, well, the problem was my wife was always very forgetful so the child would go to sleep with the tooth under the pillow.

And then the next morning, it was still there.

And my wife's on the spot.

Grandiose stories about what must have happened that kept her from coming.

It was just.

It was really.

My kids generally wished that it would get forgotten so that they could hear some ridiculous story of why it didn't work out than anything else.

But so.

But.

But they just.

They knew.

They knew it wasn't real.

Just something that we did.

Just have fun.

But you.

You tell your child that he's.

He's a real person.

He does these things.

You just ask him for trouble.

You're especially because at the same time, we're teaching them about this.

This individual known as God who exists.

Right.

That your kids are going to meet a ton of people in this world who they're going to tell him, no, he's a fictional character.

He's not real.

He's a fantasy.

Well, my parents told me Santa Claus was real until somebody told me he wasn't.

And my parents told me God was real until someone told me, you know, it just did.

Lots of problems.

But, yeah, I do not recommend that.

Yeah, have some fun with it if you want to, but.

But don't tell your kids something that's patently false and then later on try to come up with a legitimate excuse to explain to them why you lied to them.

That's just.

It's just dumb.

I actually was at a conference recently and I.

During the message.

It was a family conference.

During the message, I made a comment about Santa Claus not being real.

And somebody from the front row was like, he just.

He just broke the secret right here.

And afterward, I told that person, listen, I do not feel bad in the slightest if your kids are mad at you for lying to them.

Like that doesn't.

I don't.

I'm gonna sleep well tonight knowing.

Knowing that I told them the truth.

We should have mentioned that if you have your kids nearby, please, Spoiler alert.

We're gonna ruin everything.

You liars.

Now we so actually realizing you and I could probably be better friends than.

Than Eve and I can be because everything that she said about the tree was just heresy.

Like that was just.

Oh, how terrible.

Fake Christmas trees.

And oh, my goodness, actually, one of the.

You cut them down and then you cut them down so they can mess up your house.

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah.

Well, we bring them into the house.

I used to cut them down.

We lived up in Wisconsin down here, actually.

I found out one of our biggest exports from North Carolina is.

Is the.

Our Christmas trees.

They pull out some big ones.

They aren't lies.

They're dying.

They're dying trees.

They're not actually.

There's the trees.

There's a company that collects Christmas trees after the holidays, and they replant them, and it works.

So technically, technically, if you take care of them, if you water them, there is something that can be done that they can actually be put back into the ground after all of that, and they can actually continue to be living trees.

So.

Yeah, you know, but anyway, so one of the things that we did that was kind of a tradition.

Do you do that?

Actually?

What was that?

I said, do you do that?

Do you have your tree put back in the ground?

No, no, no, no.

Because here's this thing.

So do you ever do campfires like you have?

You ever have fireplace?

You have a wood stove, right?

We chop wood and we throw it in.

Right.

One of the coolest.

One of the great things to do is have a.

Is have a.

Like a New Year's bonfire with all of the Christmas trees.

We actually would go around sometimes and pick up other people's Christmas trees from the side of the road just to bring it back to the house to have a bonfire with them.

Because it was.

Burn well.

Tastic.

Yeah, they burn great.

It's fun for us to decorate our Christmas tree, though, because one of our little traditions is that all of the ornaments on the tree mean something.

They all have a memory attached to them.

So my mom nearly every year, easy for me to say every year.

But she has made ornaments that either a.

Were connected to some special event that.

That you experienced this year or was a biblical truth that we were all learning or needed to learn for the year.

So decorating our tree is actually a lot of fun.

The memories just come flooding back as we're putting them up there.

But there are tons of other little traditions that we did when I was in high school.

One silly example is that the extended family would come over on Christmas Eve to celebrate and exchange gifts.

And we all go back to our houses on Christmas day and celebrate those as individual families.

But when I.

When everyone came over to our house, I was the oldest boy cousin, and it just ended up being.

Because, you know, there weren't enough rooms for everybody.

So all the adults had rooms, and all the cousins would sleep on the floor.

For some reason, my place of honor was under the dining room table.

Every year, everyone knew, don't sleep under the dining room table because that's Aaron's spot.

So just dumb little things like that.

And I'm sure everyone's listening to this going on.

These people's traditions stink.

We, we go to a soup kitchen.

We, we donate to starving children.

Africa.

These people, what's wrong with them?

Yeah, I mean, I don't have any real Christmas type traditions, even with my kids.

We, we, my wife and I, not growing up with it, didn't, you know, we didn't know what to do.

I mean, we, we didn't have any kind of tradition.

We didn't know what we wanted to create as a tradition.

And by the time the kids were old enough, we were like, we don't have a tradition.

Oh, well, the.

They'll grow up and make their own.

So you can all think I'm really bad.

So.

Eve, I don't think anybody, I don't think anybody should judge anyone else's Christmas traditions or any, unless it's smacks of as, like Aaron said, lying to your kids about Santa or even on Easter, not it.

Talking to them about the true meaning of what the holiday is.

If you're in a Christian family, first and foremost, you should be.

Your main tradition should have something to do with the reason for the holiday, which Christmas.

It's whether or not Christ was born on December 25th.

It's when we celebrate his birthday.

And I think that should be the main tradition that is in your family, that you recognize that Christ came to earth and, and spend some time with him on those days with your kids.

And that goes even with Easter.

It's like, I don't think that having an Easter egg hunt is a bad thing.

I don't think you should convince kids that the Easter bunny is real.

But the first and foremost thing that you should be talking about on Resurrection Day is the fact that Christ rose from the dead.

But I also want to remind Christians, because I know the Sabbath is a really big deal right now with, with Charlie Kirk's book coming out posthumously, that, you know, there's a lot of debate in the Christian circles as to whether we should keep the Sabbath or worship on Sunday.

And, and then some people, some Christian churches call Sunday the Sabbath, though it technically isn't.

Saturday is the Sabbath from, what is it, Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

But one of the things that I think is lost in a lot of that debate is the reason why most Christians worship on a Sunday is because it is a weekly resurrection day.

We are celebrating the resurrection of Christ every Sunday.

And so as long as we can have our traditions, but I think that as Christians, we should always make sure that holidays are actually holy days, that we're recognizing why they are, why we take them off from work, and why we celebrate with family.

It's, you know, why that holiday exists at all.

And it's okay to have traditions as long as you have, first and foremost, God in the center of it.

Oh, you're one of those creationist types, aren't you?

Seventh Day.

One of the passages that I reference a bunch on the Celebration of God podcast is in Romans 14.

Paul is talking about lots of things, but really the.

The big overarching theme there is not to be passing sinful judgment on one another.

He talks about what people eat.

Some eat this, some eat that.

Verse 5 says, One person judges one day above another.

Another person another judges every day alike.

Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

He who regards the day, regards it for the Lord.

And he who eats, eats for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God.

And he who does not eat for the Lord, he does not eat and gives thanks to God.

And then he goes on.

This is where he gets into, why are you judging your brother?

You know, we're all going to have to give an account for ourselves.

So this is.

It's a really powerful passage.

But the examples that Paul uses of the types of things that we shouldn't be judging each other for really come down to whether or not we have a Christmas tree in our house that would fall under this category.

The types of food that we eat, how we observe certain religious holidays or otherwise, whether we rest on Saturday or on Sunday, and so on and so forth.

So I think, Eve, you're 100% right.

We need to be so careful.

If I'm going to say to somebody else, you're interested in sin, like, you need to do this, and therefore not doing it would be a sin, or you shouldn't do this, and if you do it, it is a sin.

If I'm going to talk that way, I'm going to be so careful that that can be carefully, accurately shown from the scriptures to be.

To be something that God actually wants us to do.

So, Eve, I don't know if, you know, you mentioned, okay, so you don't think we should lie to the kids, but would you.

Would you think that telling the kids about Santa Claus is.

Is good?

Or should we.

Should we avoid that altogether?

I think maybe the tradition of where Santa Claus actually came from and not the.

Not the worldly version of Santa Claus that we live with in the Western world I think, I mean, like, like Aaron says, it's okay to watch the movies, it's okay to have fun with it.

But I don't think that kids ever really need to have any true belief in Santa Claus.

I, I think that it's kind of neat to explore the life of St. Nicholas.

And because he was a, from what traditionally we understand about him was that he, and I'm not Catholic, so I don't know what all the Catholic stuff is, but it sounded like he was a very poor man who made it his mission in life to give to others.

And out of his poverty, he put others first.

And that should be a model for all of us.

Especially the verse in Acts that says that it's more blessed to give than to receive.

I think a lot of times Christmas becomes especially for children.

Oh, what did I get this year?

And did I get the things I asked for for and did Santa give me what was on my list?

You know, that kind of stuff.

And for a children raised in a Christian home, that should never be their perspective of Christian Christmas.

You should raise them to find joy in giving, even if it's coloring a pa, coloring some piece of art for their, their mama or something like that.

At a young age, they should be taught to find joy in giving to others instead of what they get and, and getting, getting selfish and getting upset and throwing fits because they didn't get the, the present that they wanted.

You know, the game, the Game Boy or whatever.

So there's another aspect of that though, too, that's also wrong.

Obviously it breeds selfishness, but telling the children that if you are good, so it's this conditioned morality rooted in a selfish motivation, even if it doesn't come out as like, overtly selfish.

Like I, you know, like I wanted 32 presents this year, you know, having it just be, you know, if I'm good to some subjective standard, I will get what I want.

And so why am I being good so that I can get what I want is so incredibly dangerous.

It is that.

That is at the, really the very root of every single false religion in the entire world.

Right.

And, and so when we Christians perpetuate that, that thinking with our children, it's just as dangerous as if we were rearing them in that false religion.

And, and you know, just saying having taken them to Sunday school on Sunday isn't going to undo the amount the, of power that, and the way things are communicated to our kids the entire months of November and December.

Well, if you're good, you know, man, oh man, that's just going to have a far bigger impact on our kids than anything they're learning in Sunday school, generally speaking.

Yeah, I think that you bring up a good point because there is the fact of, it's our job as parents to, to train up our children and to, to raise them.

So it becomes an important thing of.

I think when we think about how we're going to approach the holidays, especially with children there, there is some long term views.

I mean I look, my kids was really easy because if the kids complained about a present that they got for their birthday or Christmas or, or anything like that, I just reminded my, my bride is not from America.

And so my kids knew very well if they complained about a gift, I just turned and said and what did mommy always get for her birthday?

I mean she never, there wasn't a Christmas.

But my kids know that my bride for her birthday, her birthday present every year was the same thing, a hard boiled egg.

That was her birthday present.

That was the special thing she would get for her birthday.

And suddenly the kids like I would just say okay, if you want, I'll be happy to take that away and give you a hard boiled egg.

And suddenly they're like, no, it's okay, Daddy.

I like this.

Right?

It's, it's the perspective of, you know, that my wife was able to provide to the kids because she didn't have anything.

She had one toy growing up that she bought herself after she was working in the factory for years and she was a teenager and she got, she bought this little doll, I think it was for like a dollar with her own money.

But she didn't grow up with that.

And so that is something that I agree the kids have to be taught that you're getting this out of the goodness of your parents heart because they, they want to, to, you know, they want to give you a gift.

And if the focus is on, on making others happy rather than me being selfish because I, you know what I want.

And I think that becomes an important lesson for them to, to be taught.

It's not, it's not about them, it's about others.

I mean one of the things my kids used to have to do, all of us actually in the family is I, I wanted my kids to have gratitude toward others and thankfulness toward others.

So I had, we each had a certain number of little notes that just said I love you on them.

And our job was to go around and do something for others in the house and just not take credit for it.

Just leave a note behind and your goal was to get rid of all your notes by the end of the day, which is actually really hard because everyone else is trying to get rid of their notes.

So everyone was going around the house doing things for one another and, and, and leaving a note behind.

But that meant they were getting notes when someone else was doing that.

And so it, the goal of it was to, to teach gratitude to do for others rather than for self.

And that's the thing that I think really bothers me about Christmas maybe is the parents who are giving to their kids and their kids have no gratitude for the person who provided this, but all the expectations of what they want and if they don't get what they want, how sad they are.

And I think that's a really, a really sad testimony for, for many with Christmas.

I, I think that I, I don't, I don't think that anyone like plans to do that though.

Aaron.

I don't think appeal like parents are like, oh, I wanted, I want my kid to be really selfish about this.

I think the parents enjoy buying something for their kids and with the hopes that their child will appreciate it.

But you bring up a really good point because we can unexpectedly teach our children that obedience is about selfishness.

Now this isn't about Christmas, but my mother, when I was nine years old, went in the hospital and I never saw her again.

And so, you know, she ended up dying in the hospital six months later.

And so my father kept telling us because I mean, every day as a nine year old kid and my sister would have been six.

I mean we just, we used to fight all the time.

But my dad would say, hey, if you're, if you're well behaved, you can go see mom.

But we, we had found out much later in life there was no intention of us ever seeing mom because she lost her hair.

She didn't want to be seen that way.

She didn't want the kids to remember her that way.

But my dad would say that, you know, just, I don't think out of a, you know, out of like you're saying, of trying to create a workspace thing, but just to try to get us to behave and whatnot.

But it was heart wrenching when we thought we were really well behaved.

And then she died and us working so hard to try to be well behaved and not fight with each other and, and now we didn't get rewarded.

And you know, I was 10 at the time, so you know, give me a break.

I was young but, but it was on that it did affect me I mean, I, I remember it, you know, really being upset that I could never do good enough to get to see her.

And so I, I wonder how many kids grow up thinking, well, was I good enough to get the toy that I wanted?

You know, pride didn't impact them the same way because it's a little bit different when you death of your mother.

But still, I think that, that your point, it could still be there where it's like, it does have an effect on people.

So I think the point you're making is really important too.

There is a we, we don't think our way through decisions anymore.

We just kind of feel our way through decisions.

Humanity's been doing it for forever.

It's one of the biggest reasons Eve even reached out and took the fruit.

She just didn't think about what she knew to be true.

Eve, why did you do that?

Jesus talks about how we need to be alert, we need to be awake, we need to live intentionally with our eyes open, making decisions that are discerning and wise, and we just don't do that.

So you're right.

I don't think people set out to teach their children to be consumeristic.

But that doesn't change the fact that the, the mindless, feelings oriented way that they parented their children during the holidays ended up doing exactly that.

In fact, that in a way that almost makes it worse.

Like it's more heartbreaking for that parent, decades later to look back and go, oh, wow, that was partially my fault than, you know, if that was what they were trying to produce the whole time.

Good point.

So I could tell you this.

I remember my first Christmas that I celebrated or that I had.

I was about six years old and it was my first Christmas because I was in the hospital.

And so they had some guy dressed as Santa Claus and gave a big stocking full of toys.

And I was like, wow, Christmas is pretty good.

And then I found out, like, all the kids in school only got one present because as Jewish, hey, we got, we got eight presents.

We got something every day.

Usually the first day and the last day were the big ones, but, you know, we'd get eight presents.

So I, I was like, hey, you know, those, those Catholic kids get away more.

Then I found out most of them only got one.

So what, what kind of things can we, as we think about it, right There's, I think we've agreed that we shouldn't be pushing our nostalgia on others.

We shouldn't, you know, things that we have as traditions, we shouldn't force on Others.

And I think there is a lot of Christian liberty, whether I, I think that, you know, I think there's some who would say that making up the stories about Santa Claus isn't necessarily lying and it.

Because it's good done in, in good fun and eventually you tell the kids the truth.

And I, I think that, that I think there needs to be grace there.

I think we're all kind of saying that, but we, we have, you know, our strong views or our views are our preferences, convictions.

And so as we look at that, what kind of things could we do?

What ideas do you guys have?

Eve, I'm going to start with you.

What ideas?

Maybe not ones you've done, but what kind of ideas could you encourage people to consider?

Maybe they don't have.

Maybe they're like me and they don't have a tradition.

They start raising kids and they're like, we gotta think of something.

So, you know, talk to me.

When I just started having kids and I had no clue what to do for a tradition.

Eve, what are some ideas?

I think to keep it in the family, to keep it a day of special time for either just your immediate family or your extended family.

Make it a family day.

Always make it centered on Christ, especially for Christmas.

Read the Christmas story, maybe make a big deal about putting out your nativity set or something like that.

You know, do the.

My mind just completely went blank with the candles that you do every Sunday.

The menorah of December.

Advent.

Advent.

Yeah, sorry.

My mind.

My mind went blank.

I prefer the menorah you work up.

To Christmas with with your Advent candles.

And, you know, things like that that are more Christ centered, less commercialist.

I mean, if, if decorating is your thing, let your kids help with that.

Instead of making, have making your house have to be absolutely perfect, let your kids help with, you know, decorating it in a, In a way that is.

Speaks to what your family is.

However that looks.

And I like the idea that Erin had about, you know, every.

Everything on the tree is a memory.

I think that's super cool.

If I had children, I probably would have a messier tree that is, that has more unique.

But it's just been me, so I kind of skirt around the whole decorating thing.

But yeah, I mean, if you have kids, that's the, the whole purpose of raising your children to be Christ followers, I think, is making traditions that put him in the center.

So I think above all, if you're going to be raising children as a Christian in a Christian home, then keep the commercialism at bay.

Maybe not even let it into your house.

Find ways to keep Christ centered and, and don't let them believe in Santa Claus and don't let them spoil it for other kids that do.

Sorry, I didn't know any better.

All right, Aaron, what kind of ideas.

What, what, what holiday traditions could people come up with?

What, what thoughts do you have for a holiday tradition for others?

Well, first of all, Yulong celebration of God.

I've got a ton of information on there that answers this exact question.

I think one good thing is to put up a celebration wall.

But I want to tie really talk more about the why we might do something like this versus the what.

Because the what doesn't really matter now.

Please understand everything I'm about to say next.

I am no way criticizing God's instituted form of worship.

Right?

But when we think about our call them traditions, we'll call our, our ordinances, call them our whatever, even.

Even in the Old Testament, right?

What did they do as acts of worship?

They stacked rocks.

Today we will drink a tiny little half a shot glass of grape juice and eat a tiny little piece of bread.

Right?

Some of the things that we do, when you just look at what we're actually doing, the actual action itself is not important.

It's not valuable.

Children eat snacks all day long, little cheez its and things like that.

But that's not the same as when we take the Lord's Supper.

So what makes the stacking of rocks or the slaughtering of a lamb or the lighting of a candle or the decorating of a Christmas tree or the, the taking of the Lord's Supper or baptism, just dunking somebody in the water, what makes that tradition, what makes that so pregnant with meaning is the fact that it has meaning.

We've attached to it or God has attached to it in many of these cases for us.

What this is supposed to be, when your kids see those rocks stacked over there and they don't know why those rocks are stacked over there, and they say to you, hey dad, why are those rocks stacked over there?

That gave you an opportunity to tell them exactly what God had done.

So having these traditions, having these memories, memorials, having these elements in our lives, whether it's a celebration wall or the other things that we talk about, where when we see it, our mind is drawn to a deeper truth.

It's not just about the Christmas tree and the lights and the cookies and even the family.

Excuse me.

It's about the truth of who God is, who we are, why we're here on this Earth and all of that, then anything and everything can become a tradition pregnant with teachable moments.

Scott Annual has talked a lot about this.

He talked a lot against this concept that Christmas is pagan.

Right?

The Christmas tree is pagan.

First of all, that's just categorically not true.

Everyone who's made those comments has done so with faulty scholarship.

Scott does a really great job of dealing with those things.

If you just go online, you search Scott Annual and you search is Christmas a pagan holiday?

A substack or a Facebook post will come up that just is really fantastic.

And traditionally, early on, Christians used the Christmas tree to deliberately draw their minds to the things of God.

But over the years, it became commercialized.

We just, we throw up, you know, ornaments that we got from the Biltmore house or Walmart on the other extreme, because they look pretty, but they have no real significance.

We just do it because everyone else is doing it.

We don't know why we're doing it.

So we need to know why we're doing what we're doing.

We need to have a Christ honoring reason for doing it.

And if that's the case, then if you light a candle and put it in a window, and you're doing that because, not because God commands it, but because that action, you're tying that to a biblical truth that you want you and your family to dwell on.

And, and you.

And you're.

And you're quizzing your kids, hey, so when we do this, why are we doing this?

What do you want to remind.

Remind ourselves of?

And the kids have their little catechism or whatever that they say, Jesus is the light of the world.

We shouldn't hide it under a bushel, but we should put it on it, you know?

Right.

And that's, that's the tradition you have.

That is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

So know God's word, know your family, know what traditions can, can grow into something that will help them to love God and know him better.

All right.

I think that whatever we do, I, I think we all agree Eve said should be.

I think the focus should be on two things.

One, Christ, second family.

And I think within that, there's a lot you could do.

Now, the one last topic that I'd like to us to tackle, and Eve, this one, I, I do.

I want to let you maybe speak to.

You're single.

I know when, before I got married, even though I wasn't raised, you know, celebrating Christmas, I could say it was kind of a lonely time because I wasn't.

I was kind of not in the hack I was kicked out of the house to do.

I couldn't do like, you know, Hanukkah with my family.

That wouldn't have gone over well when once they found out I was a Christian.

So I had nothing to do.

I used to just.

I used to go to the Jersey boardwalk and just walk the boardwalk.

There'd actually be a lot of people out on the boardwalks.

And I discovered it's a great time of evangelism because they.

The boardwalk, you'd have these people that are just.

They got nothing to do because they don't have any family.

And I would just share the gospel with them.

They would always be depressed.

And so I do know that when I was single, it was a lonely time and I'd end up going places to use it for the gospel sake.

But we, we talked about what to do with kids, things like that.

I know you're single, so, you know, what is, you know, how for people who you're different in the case where you have family you get together with, maybe not on Christmas, but let's talk just for the person who says, you know, I really don't like this time of year because it's the reminder that I'm not married, or I am married, but I don't have kids, or I'm not married and don't have kids, or just I have no one, maybe I don't have any family.

Let's each of us speak to that person as well.

So, Eve, Aaron, go ahead.

Oh, I would say starting out that, that would be the point where you could reach out to somebody who's unsaved, because if they're speaking to you out of complete loneliness because they don't have family, I would say you have family.

There's family in Christ that even if you don't have biological family, if, if you're part of the family of God, you have fellowship with a much bigger family than you could ever count.

And it is hard for singer singles, even in churches, because on family days, people are typically doing things with family.

But if you're going to a really good church most of the time, and I have seen this happen numerous times in my years living alone, they.

There will be at least one family, usually more than one family, who will put it out amongst the church members.

If you don't have someplace to go on Christmas, Christmas Day, please come join us.

We have plenty of food, plenty of, of place, a place for you at the table.

And that is what living in the family of God is, is we all Have a place at the table.

And if, if you're a Christian and you're not involved in a church fellowship, a good church fellowship, and you're single and you're lonely, find a good church because that is where you're going to find your purpose and a place to serve.

Because above all, as I mentioned before, Christmas is about giving, not receiving.

And so if you don't have a place to give and to serve other people, then you're not meeting that need that Christ has put in you with the Holy Spirit to serve others.

And that would be my number one answer to that question is you're.

If you're a child of God, you are not alone.

Aaron, your thoughts?

Well, you're probably not going to believe this, but I really don't know that I could add really too much more to that.

That is, that just hits the nail on the head.

It's people on Valentine's Day who whine and cry about being single Awareness day are really, and I don't mean to be insensitive, but they really are just self focused.

They're thinking about how this affects me, they're thinking about oh poor me and they're not looking outward to all the other people who are far worse than they are, who, you know, who we can come around and encourage and build up.

So yeah, nailed it.

Yeah, I mean that's true because I think there is a lot where the focus can be on self rather than redirecting.

As Christians, we should be directed to Christ and we shouldn't be alone.

But Eve, what Eve said, maybe some of you listening.

Hey, have you thought about inviting people other than your family to, to join you for Christmas?

You know, it's, that's, that's a really good idea to consider.

So, so yeah, so that, that's some ideas we have on the holidays.

More of a holiday episode instead of a thing where we're all going to disagree and fight.

Earn.

You know, you guys can all keep your Christmas trees, have fun at it.

But yeah, thank you, Andrew.

Those that are dying in your house or the fake ones altogether, whatever you want.

As long as you have a tree, I guess.

But hey, you know, that's, that's the thing.

Enjoy, enjoy your tree.

But that, you know, we're glad to be able to be here and, and to do this as part of the theology throwdown.

And we encourage you to maybe share this with a friend, share with others.

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