As Salaamu Alaikum, may the peace that only God can give be upon you. Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast. I'm your host, Imam Tariq El-Amin, my pleasure to introduce today's guest Dilnaz Waraich. Dilnaz serves as president of the WF Fund, a national leader uplifting, marginalized communities through work education, human services, and religious pluralism. She brings over three decades of experience as a philanthropic advocate, community organizer, educator, and hospital chaplain. I hope you find benefit in it. without further ado, here's our conversation. We invite our guests to be as open as vulnerable, as transparent, as they're comfortable being and sharing their journey work the first question I have for you, is there a, formative memory, that stands out for you in determining your life trajectory?

Yeah. thanks for that question and for, asking me to be part of this conversation because I think when I, say it out loud, I learn more about my journey and, things that have. Transformed me and how I can better, articulate my thoughts I appreciate this conversation. when I think about transformative experiences, now I'm 55, I feel like I have years to process all my experiences. for me it was growing up in Chicago, and having that. A kitchen table conversation about where my parents, who were the working immigrants, the day-to-day hourly waged individuals who were just figuring out how they can give back to their family in India. I didn't realize it, but it was philanthropic conversations that was I was having with my parents. And my parents were talking about an aunt who needed $10 because she needed a sewing machine, and $10 was a lot for my parents in the 1970s to, ship to India. Then I remember having conversations with my parents when my dad's, uncle was having a heart attack and he was in the hospital and he needed like, a hundred dollars to pay for his bills. And my parents figuring out where are they going to get that a hundred dollars. So those were quarterly conversations that were philanthropic that now I am having with my children at the kitchen table That's just what my parents talk about. I realize now that's how black and brown communities give, on a daily basis, but we don't collect that information it's not formalized in the philanthropic sector. a lot of this was important for me to. understand what philanthropy in black and brown communities is

So you were being sensitized without really knowing it? just saying we have X amount of resources, but we recognize a need within our family and feel a sense of responsibility, which is what most of us do on individual levels. when did you come into the awareness of interrogating your own history and upbringing, when did the light go off for you?

everyone has that, moment of transformation for me it was about 10 years ago when my lovely father-in-law passed away and there was a transfer of wealth. And through the transfer of wealth, I was able to process, what does philanthropy mean? How do we wanna. Play a role in philanthropy and I realized I didn't wanna do philanthropy in the traditional way where you just, especially in the Muslim community, unfortunately, nowadays what happens is people just write beautiful checks and they empty their pockets, but there's no strategy for it. So going to get a master's in philanthropy, being in philanthropic rooms, realizing what does it mean to be strategic and how, My role model was K Unha a leader in philanthropy, and she was someone that people looked to and went to and asked for advice about, and she was constantly giving grassroots. It's funding. She was constantly giving advice in philanthropy and I was like, oh, so I don't need to hide this and I don't need to, learn anything new because Ham Islamically al had already done this for us. And from there, Omar Alala and has already dug into really roots of AKA and how should AKA be done strategically. So I think it was all of these formations that I realized. I'm gonna follow Islamic principles of philanthropy and elevate work done for over 1400 years, and talk about that in philanthropic rooms because it's a source of, learning for American philanthropy, institutional philanthropy that Muslim philanthropy has been doing this strategically for the last fif 1400 years. We just haven't given it that title. my journey in philanthropy started 10 years ago. So as my journey started 10 years ago, getting my education, also getting a certificate from Bayan in chaplaincy, all of. This was, I think a 10 year journey. sitting in community and listening to, hundreds of Muslim led nonprofits. hundreds of just nonprofits nationally, with a budget of $10,000 and budgets of $25,000, how every single nonprofit is running without funding, running without. Time running without their own. funding and having to answer to someone else made me realize. nonprofits are doing an amazing job creating a stronger America. how do we in philanthropy better understand and give ownership to nonprofits and center the voices of nonprofits and be there for nonprofits at this very uncertain time at this really, difficult moment in life where a lot of people don't. Believe in the work that nonprofits are doing and are like, oh yeah, they'll figure it out. Or there's one donor that's gonna support them. It's not about one donor supporting the ecosystem of nonprofits, it's about collectively supporting and, uplifting their work.

I think you bring a unique characteristic, to philanthropy. you just mentioned, education and chaplaincy, how do you see that integrated into the work you do?

it takes A lot of, work on myself to get to the point where I can say, alhamdulillah, I am so thankful for every strength and hardship I've had in the last 55 years to be who I am today. I don't think I would've even said that last year, I would've been like, I wish things were different. because i've had guidance from Allah subhana'wa'ta'alaa and countless hours on the prayer mat begging and crying for, help I'm at the point where I realize, hum everyone, everything that comes to me is a blessing from sla and everything that I may not even want is a blessing from Alala. So chaplaincy work for me was being with people that are, near death, being with people that don't have family, being with individuals that are really struggling with their life choices helped me understand how important it is to support chaplains and have support the work being done in hospitals and military, in correctional facilities, in college campuses, and make sure that we support chaplains doing this work. Okay.

talk to us about, relationships. How important is it to establish relationships, in the work you do?

I'd say relationships are the most important thing, and that's really very intuitive view to bring up that question because relationships are definitely what bings. People to the table and keeps people at the table. What happens? A lot of times you can easily, get a response from an email or have coffee with someone. But if someone comes back three or four times, then you've built that strong relationship. And how do we continue making sure that. We build those relationship has to do with, tra transactional leadership versus transformational leadership. transformational leadership is what Alala helped me understand. And also Prophet

so.

helped, us better understand. I'd love to talk about transformational leadership and how did you know our, ancestors in Islam have visionary leadership? How did they have spiritual influence with the community? ethical conduct? Empowerment fostering of the community. And effective communication. All of these are forms of transformational leadership. I don't, have to read the current, bestseller books. I can just go back to our Habi and the Sunna and see what transformational leadership is and what in shellah I wanna start working on as well.

it is a benefit to look back into our tradition for those models. are there leaders today that embody those characteristics in terms of, communications and? the way that they're able to build relationships that maybe you have benefited from.

one person, especially in philanthropy, because that's what I, do every day, and those are the spaces I am in, is Dr. Shariq Siddiqi, who's as Indiana University of Lilly School, philanthropy. and also, you know, a Bayan academic as well is he is leading philanthropy. He's really pushing, How we need to do data and research How we need to make sure that we're having conversations about like how much funding each year Muslim Americans are giving and how we're emptying our pockets. And if it wasn't for the work that Dr. Shariq Zaki was doing at Indiana University, Lilly School of Philanthropy, first of all, I wouldn't be, here having this conversation with you. I think many nonprofits that are getting, the. Acumen necessary for fundraising and how to move from fundraising to development and how to move from development to advancement, and he's leading that charge.

what does it mean to have a greater presence of Muslim, philanthropist, not just for Muslims, but what does it mean to have them in the impacting the public square? in general.

Yeah, so I wouldn't say it was about 2018. We were at some event and my sister, she goes to me, why don't you just call yourself a philanthropist? And my sister and I have a really good relationship and I was like, how could she insult me like that. growing up in Chicago, There were so many white affluent men that were named and called philanthropist that actually did harm to the city. That actually created policies and legislation that really redlined and, Did things that I was not wanting to associate myself with, and that's what I saw in the seventies and eighties. when I was called a philanthropist, I wasn't comfortable with it. So I call myself now a philanthropic advocate 'cause I wanna be in partnership with my community. I wanna be in partnership with the non-profits that we, walk side by side with. So I think as Muslims we need to. Reclaimed the word philanthropy and realize that hat were philanthropist and they have charged us with this, sector. In Islam, there's bottom up philanthropy, which is Sia, which is, and just opening the door for someone when they, when you see someone coming or giving someone a cold glass of water. 'cause it's a hot day. So those are forms of Sika, but then there's the bottom down form of philanthropy, which could be a really large zago check. And, someone may want to be really. Quiet about that, ziga allocation, but these are different forms of philanthropy we as Muslims need to reclaim be proud of and highlight as well. While we're intentions are to get others to also give more and give generously.

You, used the word reclaiming, right? Reclaiming, philanthropy, right? and initially referring yourself as a philanthropic advocate. Having, immigrant parents, working class parents in a, a city that it's known as a city of neighborhoods, but we know that's code for segregated. But within this American ideal of being a melting pot, where we welcome, we welcome diversity, that everybody has a potential claim on the American identity, how do you see, your work fostering a broader reclamation of the American. potential for each of us as individuals, but certainly within the non nonprofit space and, and beyond.

So currently we're working on a project, it's a WF fund project, and what we're working on is narrative change work. And so we have two arms at the WF fund. We have the grant making arm, which we give nationally to different non-profits that fall under three buckets. The first bucket is religious pluralism, human services, and the third bucket is, civic engagement. That's one arm. The second arm of the work that we do is called Narrative Change Arm, and we are currently working on a project called Inspire Generosity It launched in Atlanta through a fellowship with the National Center for Family Philanthropy in 2025. Inspire generosity will be in Chicago. And then in 2026 we'll be in Minnesota. inspire generosity tells the Muslim American story of generosity Turning a spotlight into philanthropy and asking have you funded Muslim led nonprofits that fall under your bucket of giving? Because a lot of nonprofits will say, oh, we're looking for new, nonprofits. We're looking for new, innovative, communities doing transformative work I ask is there a blind spot where you haven't engaged in Muslim communities because you have an implicit biases. And if you have an implicit biases, which dark, all of us have implicit biases, how do we push back on those implicit biases? And it goes back to your question about relationship. So if we build relationship with Muslim nonprofits and Muslim communities and walk into mosques, then we're like. I see this as a part of my community. as a human issue. It doesn't become a Muslim issue because violence in Chicago is a Chicago issue, but also a Muslim issue what I do day-to-day work is really talk about inspire generosity and the Muslim. Generosity story because unfortunately we often are told about how Muslims are terrorist and proselytizers and takers. But what about the story about Muslims creating organizations that are thriving and creating better, communities because we're working with women that are going through domestic violence because we're handing out, meals on a regular basis, right outside of the mass. Because we are working with, getting the vote out in our communities. So these are nonprofits that need to be funded by philanthropic institutions that may not have a relationship with the, those organizations.

what has been one of the, Most reoccurring challenges around, narrative change.

having to reclaim, our story, right? someone hijacked our story, told it in a manner that was extremely distorted I. have this Amana to move forward with. I don't wanna open the door, I wanna kick that door down. And how do we collectively kick that door down is what I'm really working on because all of us have such a limited amount of time on this beautiful Earth. And while we're giving this Amana, how do we tell different stories?

Do you think there's an aversion for. Folks who could contribute to that narrative, to get on the mic to come before people, to share their stories, to talk about the work that they're doing. do you think that there's some folks that you feel like you have to pull out of the shadows?

A lot has to do with the, chronic eye that says, give from the right hand so the left hand doesn't know, give from the left hand, so the right hand doesn't know. I think a lot of times when I'm in conversation, people are like, no, no sister. I just wanna do this humbly. I don't need to have any recognition. And I was like, that's the way it should be done. But what about, the other AYA that says, Ella knows your intentions and intentions are what? Really, move this narrative in Chicago, in the US about the Muslim American community. So it's a combination of both. I think humility is a really important part of the work that we do. But as we're humble, we also realize. There's only one story being told about the Muslim American community we need to tell diverse, nuanced stories. someone's gotta be fearless. it's not easy to have your name on, these conversations or write an op-ed or, go on shows because there's a lot of hatred out there. There's billion dollar Islamophobia industry out there. This is not easy work but at some point we have to say, Allah knows best and has our back and we've gotta move forward

our faith is one that it is transformational, and when it does not present itself as transformational in whatever space that it's in. I think there should be the kind of the natural, question that comes about, what's missing? what is missing? what is keeping us from fulfilling the full promise and intention of what we have? do you think that some of this, going back again into the public square, do you think, or do you, is there a particular strategy around how we engage other faith communities in, in this project of transformation, which Muslims, inherently are invested in?

That's a hard question because, the genocide stopped us from having transformational conversations with other faith traditions. if we can't be truth tellers and talk about the genocide It's hard it's hard to have these interfaith conversations. So I think there was a real stopping of all those convers, many of those conversations for the last, 27, 20 some months. And yeah, I just, yeah, interfaith work used to, I thought, be something that was really gonna lead this, difficult time. Since our October 7th, you know, killing started, but I just don't think interfaith work is doing that. And I feel. Let's just have conversations, not for just the fact of having conversations, but how we can move these into transformational conversations. it can't just be dialogue. I'm so tired of dialogue. It is to be action and dialogue. So let and difficult conversations, right? That's what the prophet did during, all these during the hijra during. So many moments of the prophet salallahu alaihi wasalaam life. that's why he was called Al because he was trusted. And even though he was talking about things that were so difficult, he kept talking about him because he was an effective communicator. to be an effective communicator, you need to realize it's hard work, but we've gotta do it. We can't quit.

I have found in my work that some relationships I thought were equally invested in and from an interfaith standpoint, that they were in fact more transactional than they were really, interdependent. have you also seen that where you thought, you had a, you were on a clear and stable footing that they were, in fact, 'cause it sounds like that's what you're saying, that they were more transactional in nature.

people are realizing power dynamics and I think in philanthropy that's really important to understand your place in, this sector. And as you realize your place in your sector, you also realize the other person's place in the sector. And that power dynamic is so strong. How do you. push against that and say, Hey, let's do things differently. But that only happens thik when there's a collective force. So when you have coalitions, you've got collective, organizations collectively moving this conversation forward. That's when it happens single handedly. No one can do anything. Where it's transformational, but collectively we can really change the needle. So I do believe, there's some really beautiful interfaith organizations that are not transactional. There's transformative and they understand what's happening, in Gaza, and are willing to have this conversation. they may not be putting a statement out there. Sure. They may not be like leading the charge, but quietly, I think there's two ways of doing this, work cancel culture is what's hurting our society right now Oh, you didn't, sign this bill. But guess what? Quietly people are doing so much inside there's two ways of doing it. Do it loud, go to the protest, signed the pledges, make sure you do it that way. But then there's that quiet way of, doing legislation and advocacy work moving that forward. And it takes. Longer to do it the quiet way, and make institutional changes. But I think there's two ways of, making change.

when you talk about cancel culture. how should we insulate ourselves from a restrictive, posture? Because we are worried about taking positions we know we should be taking, but we are worried about the public fallout.

I think it goes back to our faith tradition getting up in the morning on the prayer mat, asking SLA for guidance during the day, right? I think in the morning, that's what I try and do. And the second thing I try and do in the morning is asking Al what didn't, what can I tweak from yesterday as I do today? So number one, I ask for strength, as I do my work. And number two, I ask for guidance on what I could have done better yesterday. I do these two types of reflection in the morning, I can only control myself. So your sphere of control is important. I focus on myself. I try and not focus on others. I try and not compare myself to others because I'm always gonna be short. as I have this, knowledge this bandwidth, it's what? Am I going to do today? And what am I gonna do the best I can today? And then just move forward.

so when I think about, leadership, that leaders are known by the leaders they produce. I think about, was it Jack Welch? used to be the CEO of ge and the, all of these Fortune 500 or 100 companies, they had folks that would go to his. training. do you think, about creating other philanthropic advocates, instilling that same ethic? I know we just automatically assume for Muslims this was that resonates with us, but sometimes we don't realize the full, breadth of what we have, not just for ourselves, but for society.

representation matters and I didn't currently in when I've really been doing this very insti, in institutionally since 2018. See someone that looked and sounded and had my lived experience in the philanthropic sphere, I had a hard time. finding, voices I could connect with. But then I think when I dug a little deeper, I was very comfortable finding other individuals doing this work that are faith-based, that were, coming from communities that I was, that I was coming from. So I think. If you do your work and you are asking for guidance from others, you find your tribe. You use that tribe, to, help you get to the next level. You use those individuals to give you strength and guidance and feedback. So important. And once you get feedback, you realize, this is what I need to tweak. This is how I need to be in conversation. These are the, blind spots because I do have many blind spots as I do this work. This is the implicit biases I'm carrying. it's important for you to realize you need consultation on a regular basis. as you get this consultation, you will get to that next level. As a Muslim, I wanna be the best I can be, but I wanna grow the, ecosystem of Muslim female philanthropists as well as male philanthropists, and for them to be comfortable in this space.

Okay. So yeah, that's really what I wanna zero in on, in terms of that next generation, you said you didn't see any, anybody that, that looked like you with your experience, that was in the philanthropic space. now your presence, it fills in that gap for that next generation that is coming. so they have someone to look at. how important is it for you to be, a mentor or accessible for those who might also see themselves and see themselves in you?

Yeah, mentorship is really important when you look at the past to today, mentorship has moved the needle making sure people are in the spaces they need to be. And uplifting an entire, community I think it's important To ask the right questions and also just to ask. So I love how this one individual told me years ago, if you never ask the answer is always no. there's another fundraising, phrase If you ask for money, they'll give you advice. If you ask someone for advice, they may give you money. ask people, send someone an email and say, Hey, I'm curious. how does this work? Or, I'd love to have coffee with you. it is important to figure out how can I support the next, philanthropist How can I support? the generation right now. How can I learn from the generation right now? even if I may not have. Met many strategic philanthropists in our community. I've met so many amazing philanthropists that I can learn from, and this has to do with humility and empathy. So for me to have humility and be like, I'm not. Knowledgeable about this. Can you share with me what's happening? I would love to know from your mistakes so I can hopefully not, replicate the same mistakes and I'll make other mistakes, but I'd love to learn from you. I think that's important. our ancestors, like my parents in their eighties, have so much wisdom. How do we sit with our ancestors ask Questions write it down or videotape it so our children can be aware of this, work that's been happening for years it's just not told. how do we not tell it? UPF is doing a beautiful story on Islam's greatest love stories We don't talk about Muslim love stories in that, documentary it talks about the, daughter, father relationship. The Malcolm X relationship with, his sister. It talks about ELA and relationship with her husband. different forms of love stories and how we need to focus on the love that Islam has given us. Opposed to focusing all the time on the struggle and I gotta do better and I gotta make myself better. But Humala, we're doing well. We have beautiful stories to, uplift our daily work.

How do you balance all that you're doing?

everyone only sees a snippet, right? And I think the people that follow people on social media think, oh my God, how are they doing it all? They're amazing. They're getting their exercise eating healthy, and they're going to all these restaurants and they're doing all that. Every, everyone has their own, matrix. I think we gotta start comparing ourselves from yesterday to today opposed to comparing myself to someone else. So for me, it's really making sure I get up in the morning and I have a really reflective, time on the prayer mat and I'm comparing myself and how I can be better each day, compared to my yesterday.

when you were talking about, the questions. That brought to me, it, it really is amazing how an idea or saying can shape the way you move, the way you see, the world. for me it was, Dr. Zeda, Kabir. he told me, and this is probably about seven or eight years ago, he says, the quality of your life is dependent upon the quality of the questions that you ask. that really has a chronic basis. the questioning is all throughout questioning. folks have probably heard me say that many times. I'm always telling my daughters this. ask questions, be curious. and interrogate, in the best way. I would love to hear your thoughts especially as articulated, compare your Tomorrow. Compare your yesterday to today and not looking at what you know of someone else. what are your thoughts on time management versus priority management?

So can I go back to what you said about be curious. I think our world today talks about be curious, ask questions. And I think what's happening in our, a lot of, younger generations is they're asking so many questions that they're have anxiety, they don't know how to move forward. I think about our Islamic tradition as we are an action oriented faith. We are not about sitting and thinking We have five daily prayers, but the prayers are built into our world and we need to make sure we are achieving certain benchmarks. while we're also being reflective and doing our spirituality. It is not about just sitting and thinking. I feel like the research of Jonathan Het and how he talks about, the anxious child. We need to move away from being anxious and being hesitant about action and realize that Ellis Manal is asking us to do both. Be reflective, be curious, but act. If we don't act, we are not doing our, Islamic, tradition. Any benefit.

Do you think that anxiousness is a manifestation of a fear to fail?

it's about not wanting to fail, but it's also 'cause we're comparing ourself to other people. Oh my gosh, she can do this. And how does she do it? I'm not gonna be able to do it as well. If we compared ourselves and said, wow, I did a little better than yesterday, and quietly applauded ourselves then said, all right, what can I do better today? We would be more, less fearful. We would be less anxious. It's the fact that I think social media and, others are telling us, Hey, do this. That's what's holding us back and this younger generation that is, really thinking and like thinking of every excuse not to do something is also not learning from our ancestors that like what we did during the Civil War, what we did during the civil rights. The civil rights would've never occurred if we overthought it And how much impor importance there needs to be done in, each one of our actions. the bus boycott, the economic changes, all of that happened because there were thousands of people doing it, not just one individual moving it forward. we need everyone to be reflective and move forward.

Denis, a powerful point. not just the damage we do to ourselves or our children I wouldn't even say it's just our children, because now we have a, just part of society. Now. This, what is it? Thief, a co. A comparison is the thief of joy. And we are in a constant state of a comparative analysis. We're constantly engaged looking at somebody else and what they're doing, and. to, to the point to bring it back to the, one of the points of this platform, one is to highlight the journeys, of different people, talking about leadership and their experiences, But it's also, for people to, as we look at other people's journeys, to consider our own and to find some value, recognize that there's value in our journeys and. we don't recognize the value in that, it may pull us away from the ability to actually make decisions. we're we put ourselves into a state of paralysis. We think we're in stasis. and don't realize, We've been evolving and growing.

Yeah. going back to your question of how do I do it every single day? I will push, On that concept of, as women, a lot of times we're told, make sure you put your family first. there's so many things that women, in every faith tradition, have to check off before they're actually recognized or applauded for their work. people use this phrase midlife crisis. I changed it around and I said it was a midlife awakening. So I went through a midlife awakening about 10 years ago, and asked myself. What do I want? What are my priorities? I really struggled with that for a good couple of years. I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro for seven days. I cried. I asked Al for guidance, but I came back as a new person. not everyone can climb a mountain, but Each one of us climbs a mountain every single day, and each one of us has a different summit every single day. So when you're on that prayer mat, be proud you climbed a mountain, reached a different summit, and then be like, what other. Opportunities out there. What el what other, fellowship can I apply for? Who do I need to have coffee with? who do I need to email it's those little nuggets that change your mindset people tell us, that's not what you should do. Or, that's not really appropriate. But also question, why are they saying that and what. Where are they coming from? I don't think everyone out there is evil when they tell me, oh, don't do that. I think people are worried about me and where I wanna move forward. So I think it's being curious, being self-reflective, and then acting.

let's go back to Mount Kilimanjaro for a moment what was that experience like? obviously it sounds like it was a cathartic, an experience, but, first off, what made you decide to go to climate actual mountain?

I said, there's that phrase, midlife crisis. I wasn't going through a crisis. I was going through an awakening. Let's change the narrative, call it a midlife awakening. I went through a midlife awakening where everything was, an opportunity before I could walk through those doors, I needed to be comfortable with myself. I needed to be comfortable with the choices that I made, and I needed to sit in that space. So it was a seven day hike. Beautiful time for me. It was something I did for myself. many, listeners will realize we give so much of our life for others, we please others. We wanna make sure we're doing what's, societally, appropriate. And these were seven days just for what I wanted to do. I needed those seven days for me to come back and be like, okay, this is my trajectory and I'm really comfortable with it. So I started prioritizing. In the last 10 years, I've always said in my priorities, Al is number one. I myself, bill Na is number two, and then my family, my work, my community, when you fly that airplane, they tell you this every single time. Make sure you take that oxygen mask and put it on yourself. And then put it on the child sitting next to you. if I don't take care of myself, I cannot take care of others. that was a harsh reality. It wasn't easy to feel comfortable but every day I say Ellis Bon Al is number one. I'm number two, and everything else falls under.

Do you carry that trek, that mountain with you? Are there times where you, mentally go back to that space? Or is that in your review?

Oh no, you always have to look forward, but everything in the rear view mirror has supported you right? So as I look forward, I think about, the mountain I climb, every day we're Climbing mountains getting comfortable with the heat bumps and journeys it's, important to put in the work I've done. if every challenge had not been there for me, and every single strength had not been there for me, I wouldn't be where I am thank you Allah, for giving me this opportunity. Thank you Allah, for making these hardships for me. Thank you, Allah. I would've never been able to have said that before. It takes so much reflection and hard work and crying to get here.

life does look different on this side of 50. I have more clarity in areas I did not have. And there's still things I think, you always be grappling with. do you think that it's been just a matter of, is it age? experience? what would you say? how much has time played a role in the awakening where you are now?

Yeah. you asked me about, experiences that have been pivotal in my life? after I came back from my, mountain hike, I, started talking about Muslim philanthropy I realized every morning I had 1.8 billion Muslims I was curing into every room. at the end of the day. I was it. Exhausted dark. Like I literally laid on the couch and just needed to take a nap. So at that point, my younger son was probably around 14 years old, and I so remember this. He's mom, I don't know. Very many crack addicts, but you are totally acting like a crack addict. I was like, first of all, how I didn't even know you knew crack addict. He goes, do you see yourself in the morning? You're like, oh my God, I gotta do this, And you come home at night and fall asleep sometimes you make dinner, sometimes you don't he goes, I don't think that's how you should behave. that comment was important because I walked. Out of my home every morning because I was carrying 1.8 billion Muslims on my back. I wasn't representing Vil Naz. I was representing the entire Muslim community, I needed to change that. I'm one person, I can only represent Vil, NAZ, my views, strengths and challenges. I cannot represent the entire Muslim community. That was a huge journey. now I can tell you I get up in the morning do whatever I can best. go to sleep at night and ask, for guidance the next day and to give me the strength to do whatever I can. But I always say, I'm sorry for the mistakes I made because I know I've made mistakes, but they're my mistakes. I am not taking accountability for anyone else except for myself.

that sounds oddly for me, and I think that is the burden non-white folks carry. it has nothing to do with religion, that resonates with me in terms of my blackness. when there's a news story and something terrible happened we're going, please don't let it be a black person. Or then, something happens. please don't let it be a Muslim. that is a burden placed upon, non-white folks, and brown folks, non-Christian, folks. to be able to free yourself of that, regardless of what other people may think is a. that is in itself is an achievement, right? I've been carrying around 1.8 billion Muslims with me every day. so thank you for that. what would you say has, is your greatest achievement? Something that's most, I know it's hard sometimes Muslims, we don't want to use the word proud, right? But what's something you really, are pleased with?

that's a very interesting question. for me it's raising these two lovely sons and, having a intact family is, it's not easy. It's not easy especially, during difficult times, having a. Strong family unit with my parents and my siblings and all of that. I think that's my greatest joy. on your deathbed, you're not gonna remember how much money you made but your family. the fact that I have a strong family is really important. It takes a lot of time and effort to build that type of relationship, I make a lot of mistakes in this, parenting, journey. that would be the, one thing I'm really proud of.

the one lesson I keep learning. Is

the one lesson I keep learning is I'm enough.

Now say that again and unpack that a little bit for us. 'cause I love that. I think I understand that, but I just love to hear a little bit more on that.

the one lesson I keep learning is I'm just enough because. Growing up, I was told I wasn't enough if I could do this differently or if I could just, learn that, or if I could just, try and look a certain way, I was always told I wasn't enough. now at the age, like you had mentioned in our fifties where. So much more, grounded and we know how we, should be living I'm just enough. Whatever I'm doing fine. I could probably, do things better, but right now I'm just enough. I don't need anyone to tell me, oh, if you just tried this, you'd be better. I don't need someone to tell me how I can do things better. I need someone to tell me they're gonna be my partner in this work, and together we can make things better.

I think that's gonna be on repeat. somebody's gonna rewind that and listen a couple of times.

Yeah.

Daz, I appreciate you taking the time to share your journey, work, perspective. I've benefited from it and I'm sure that our listeners will as well. thank you again I'm gonna just stop there. Like I said, I do. All right, family. That concludes our conversation for this week. I hope you found value in it, remember to keep up with us on social media we have a new episode every Friday, with God's permission. we appreciate you. we look forward to next week's conversation where we share the work Muslims in America are doing. their journeys and the experiences that have shaped them. So I'm gonna leave you now as I greeted you, as made the peace that only God can give be upon you.