Speaker: 00:00:00

Welcome everybody to Gospel Talk Podcast where we help Christians all over the world

become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.

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My name is George Binoka and with me today is Jeff Musgrave, the founder and author of The

Exchange.

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And we're so excited to be with you guys.

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This is a little bit right after Christmas, just before New Year's.

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And uh we want you to think about New Year's resolutions real quick.

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I guess this whole episode is kind of about...

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a type of New Year resolution except one that we don't often think of.

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I I think of like, okay, I got to lose a little bit of weight.

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I want to do this.

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I want to do that.

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I want to clean this room up in my house, clean out the junk drawer.

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But those are very this earth kind of resolutions.

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I think a resolution that we're thinking about is what would be the resolution for your

church, the church family that you're a part of, you as a member of the church, what would

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be the New Year's resolution for you?

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And we're all the church.

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The church is not just the pastors.

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It's not just the leadership.

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It's not just the deacons.

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It's not a building.

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It's the people.

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So all of you are the church.

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You're part of some local church family, I hope.

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And in being part of that, we ought to have a goal for this year for 2026.

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I love I love goals.

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Don't you George?

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mean, go.

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Go.

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Goals are uh what drives my life.

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I got to have a new one.

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Yep, yep, they excite me.

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They are exciting.

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Yeah, so here I think we've been thinking a lot about goals and so what were you thinking

to talk about today?

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mean, what kind of goals do you want to talk about?

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Well, I really felt since I think most of you know that George is just taking the

pastorate of a of a church that really needs to be revitalized.

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And he's super excited about that.

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I'm super excited for him and for the church.

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And I thought, wow, this is fresh on his brain there.

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He's thinking in terms of how can we get this church

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up and healthy and running and you know what, what, what steps need to be done.

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And I think every single church needs new life.

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mean, every, if we could almost say George, that every church needs to be revitalized.

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we all need new life.

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And I thought if we could just listen, to what God's kind of put on your head and your

heart, in terms of what you need to do, I think we can all learn from that.

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So I thought we'd just use that as a template if it's okay.

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Oh yeah, sure.

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You know, a lot of times when we think revitalization, we think like a complete restart.

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I'm actually, I think the Lord has been really gracious to me in the fact that I'm not

really starting where some guys start in a church revitalization, which is like they have

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maybe three or four families left.

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We have much more than that.

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You know, we have 130 on a Sunday, but the church that I'm

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family that I'm a part of now has been through a lot of hurt, a lot of change, basically

has been kind of on a downturn, steady downturn over the last couple years due to various

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reasons.

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And, and as I've come in, I've just thought, you know, we, have some goals we're trying to

do here.

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And we were talking just before the podcast and basically the three areas I'm focused on

is truth.

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administration and people.

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As I've looked across our church family, there are some people that I really want to

disciple, get close to.

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There are people, not talking to other people, that are not, they are not reconciled, but

they're not having the conversation to have reconciliation.

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And so there's a little bit of Matthew 18 going on.

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Our administrative

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where we are right now administratively.

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Yeah, go ahead.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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just a thought, just for our listeners in, in my mind, there's a major difference between

a replant and a, kind of re strengthening, revitalizing what's here and, definitely see

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what you're doing as a revitalization.

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That's why I say every church,

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needs to be revitalized.

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Not every church needs to be replanted.

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You know, if if church is down to a couple of families, it needs to be replanted.

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If a church is got a hundred people in it and they're just tired and worn out and needing

a shepherd, that that's, that's totally different.

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Now we just need to revitalize that.

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I would dare say George that nearly every church that

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the people that we're talking to are in, there are people there that are tired and worn

out and the church needs number one, new workers, because that's every church needs more

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workers.

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Uh, even the early church, that was the biggest problem they have was more work to be done

than people to do the work.

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Uh, that was the institutional lay leaders in, uh, um, acts chapter six.

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Uh, but when, when we see

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any church, it needs to be revitalized.

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And I think you're putting the emphasis right in that the very first thought about

revitalizing is building up those people, finding the people problems.

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But but not just that taking the people who have been the backbone and holding it together

and and giving them a break and giving them a lift up because they're tired.

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Mm-hmm, yep.

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No, I think you're exactly right.

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I think a lot of us Christians who are in a church, we struggle with the idea of, you

know, it always seems there's some problem, there's something we're dealing with as a

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church.

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There's always, it's like you fix this thing and then this thing pops out.

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And then you fix that thing and then this thing comes undone.

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And there's an aspect of ministry, of just being part of a church where...

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you are always going to have to go through these cycles of revitalization and adjustment

and a little bit of a pivot.

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you're going have to, you're going to be used to doing this thing that was so, so

effective and all of a sudden it's not effective anymore in your neighborhood.

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And now you have to change how you approach something.

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And we just have to understand that that kind of...

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work and busyness and the stress that comes with all that is actually the privilege of

being in a ministry that is growing, that God is doing something with.

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If you aren't facing any problems, either you're dead as a ministry, right?

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If you aren't facing any problems, either you're dead as a ministry or you're just

ignorant of them.

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It's like any growing place faces growing.

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pains and if Satan is attacking you as a ministry, if the church has problems and people

are having problems, is because you are at some level effective.

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If he leaves you alone, I don't know what that says about you.

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All that to say it's how we deal with the problems.

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It's not every ministry, I don't know of a single ministry that doesn't have some kind of

problem.

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I don't know of a single church with some kind of problems.

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If you're looking for a perfect church, you're doomed.

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But, but

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in fact, if you're looking for a church, perfect church, don't join it because it won't be

perfect anymore.

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Yeah, that's the brutal reality is we bring our problems with us as Christians.

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You know, I was just talking to Anna today about, one of the things that I know you're

working on is helping your church to be safe.

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And I think you're working on some of the administrative issues of taking care of children

and all of the pieces.

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But I think even just emotionally, spiritually, socially, I think every single person

needs to be able to walk into church and feel safe.

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And what I mean by that is,

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If, if we think we have to be perfect to be able to serve in the church, we're never going

to serve.

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And so if there are people serving me and serving the church and they make a mistake and

maybe even a sinful one, you know, they got, they lost their temper.

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They, they did something selfish.

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we all have to let them make those kinds of mistakes because nobody doesn't make those

kinds of mistakes.

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We all get selfish.

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Sometimes we all,

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say things we shouldn't have said and have to go back and repent.

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And I mean, that that's just part of life in a family.

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we safety says, I'm going to let you make those mistakes and let you correct them and

still love you deeply.

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Yeah, and the book of Proverbs says if you don't like the benefits of having an ox, get

rid of it.

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But part of having an ox is you have to clean up after the ox.

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But there's a benefit that comes with that.

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you know, it's like sometimes when the older people in our church feel like the kids are a

nuisance.

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Well,

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A church with zero kids is a dying church.

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It's a doomed church.

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I've, I've, we've been a lot of churches that literally you walk in and you immediately

recognize it's church.

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You're not going to make it because there's no kids and where there's kids, there's

noisiness and they're going to bump you.

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Yep.

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right now my AV team is teenagers and we're starting to incorporate the teenagers into

worship and the song portion of the worship service.

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And so people look at that and go, you know, how can you, how could you trust teenagers

with that?

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Well, I mean, that's the future of your church.

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So you can't afford not to invest in them and give them opportunities.

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And if they

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one of the teenagers programmed the slides to auto-forward in our song service this last

Sunday, or somebody did.

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I don't know if it was one of the teenagers, but anyway, it would jump ahead and he'd have

to hit it back because we weren't done singing the slide.

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And so there was this boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom happening in every song.

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And at the end, I go up to him and go, so what happened to those slides?

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He's like, man, there was an auto-forward and we didn't catch it ahead of time and we

should have deleted it in the transitions on the slide.

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And I just looked at him and I go, I'm so impressed that you understand what happened and

what went wrong and you already have a plan to correct it.

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I'm really thankful for your ministry because

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that's letting him be safe to do stuff and not be perfect.

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Exactly.

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I mean, that's part of development is those are the risks we take to develop other people

and invest in them and see God use them.

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And if everything, I was just preaching the Magnificat this Sunday and Mary's worship was

not canned worship.

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It was not manufactured.

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It was not artificial.

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It was not perfect and prim and proper.

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and everything she said she said under inspiration, but she spoke totally from the heart.

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says her soul magnified the Lord.

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That's where our worship and service ought to come from, from our souls.

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If it's all scripted like a choreographed concert, I mean, is it really genuine local

church worship?

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So it's okay to have mistakes.

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So I think one of the things that we want to be able to communicate to those who are just

church members are two twofold.

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Number one, we need to give people room to make mistakes.

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But number two, we've got to be recognizing that the people around us need to be growing.

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And I think I

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our friend Brad Steely gets gets real excited about discipleship.

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And he says every single person in the church needs to be being discipled and needs to be

discipling someone.

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And so I think in terms of how do we help people grow, every one of us ought to be looking

around and saying who in this church could I get it come alongside of and help them grow.

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Yeah.

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I think, I think you're a hundred percent right.

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Instead of complaining about, you know, where they, where they fall short, we ought to

come alongside and say, how can I help you?

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You know,

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instead of complaining, you know, our church doesn't do any discipling.

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Well, then start discipling, you know, find someone and disciple them.

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Yeah, I heard of a pastor who would tell people, you're not allowed to come to me with a

problem until you have a solution for that problem.

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Come with both or don't come at all.

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you got, I got in mind for sure.

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Now I know that one of the things you're trying to do with people is kind of build a

discipling group.

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You're you're working on training people in discipleship.

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Yeah, I mean, I was talking with one of the deacons here at the church and he's just like,

you know, I'd love to know how to do discipleship.

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I'd love to know how to win somebody to Christ and then disciple them for a lifetime of

ministry.

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And I said, why don't we just start a group that meets in my home of families in the

church who are interested in this sort of thing.

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A lot of my younger families with kids are interested in, they have opportunities in their

workplace and on the sidelines of games and things like that.

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And so they just don't

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they don't have the training, you the stuff we talk about on this podcast, uh what the

exchange ministry does.

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So of course I work for the exchange.

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So one of the benefits is I have the online course and I can play it on the TV in my

living room and we can create a class, we can create a fishing club.

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I think that's what I'm gonna call it.

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I'm gonna call it a fishing club.

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And so we're gonna go fishing for men.

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um so anyway, that's kind of a very small thing, but that makes a big impact.

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You know, it is the main thing.

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think it may be a small in terms of how many people, but it's the main thing in terms of

what you're trying to accomplish.

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What are you working on administratively?

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So it's boring stuff, but I'm telling you, it's so important to a church.

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It's finances, how are deacons meetings streamlined, how are business meetings

streamlined.

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You know, a church business meeting can be a real turnoff.

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It could be a turnoff to a visitor, it could be turnoff to your own people.

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I know of a church in another state that had a business meeting about a piano.

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where people were standing up and shouting at each other across the room.

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And some of the young people who grew up at that church have never gone back to that

church because of that one business meeting.

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Generation Z you have a fight in the church and they're gone.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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And that's that you're exactly right.

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You mean you want to kill a youth group.

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You want to kill the future.

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What would be your young, young adult group.

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Just go ahead and have a fight in your business meeting or have really long ones.

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Just unnecessary conversation.

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Let's all say the same thing 50 times in the meeting and let's all ask, you know, same

version of the question.

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I'm not saying questions are wrong to ask and it's the prerogative of members to be able

to have discussion and ask questions in a business meeting.

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But

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At some level, leaders have to be able to garner respect and support from their people

enough to conduct a business meeting in a Christ-like, orderly manner that would glorify

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God.

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And then on another level, we all have to realize as the church that business meetings

aren't the main thing of the church.

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Actually, we shouldn't even call them business meetings because we're not a business,

we're a ministry.

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so we have to...

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Family, that's a great...

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That's a perfect name for what these are.

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Some people bring their Robert's Rules of Order to a church meeting and it's like, hold

on, that's not the point.

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That's just not, wrong place.

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Yeah.

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And I think I used to have a, a finance guy in our church that would get so excited about

rolling out the budget because he would say, this is helping us see what God's going to do

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in our church this, this year.

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And, you know, we are showing our priorities by our budget.

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And I think we can make everything ministry.

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That's really the issue is.

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It's all about ministry.

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The only reason we're doing administration is because we're going to do ministry

efficiently.

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And that's why it's so important to explain to people why you're doing something.

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If there's not a good reason why, and you're just doing it and going through the motions,

is people get frustrated.

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They think it's boring or pointless.

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Other thing with finances is that if you as a church are being supported by donors,

supported by the tithes of Christians in your church, and if you're not transparent, if

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you don't have good accounting practices, if you don't keep track,

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of your budget if you don't have spending regulation on the staff and accountability via

the deacons, I think that people lose trust in the financial process and the plate

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reflects that.

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And so when you can't tell people what you spent and you can't tell them your budget

because nobody knows and everybody's looking at around at each other and going, I don't

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know what that money is for.

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There's a hundred thousand dollars in that account.

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What's it for?

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And everybody's scratching their head and you go, man, this is really bad.

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That's the thing that could kill a church too, because those are the churches that are

easy to embezzle from.

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In fact, yeah, that's, that's terrifying.

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And I think one of the things we want to do in terms of accountability is not just keep

people from embezzling, but, to protect the people who are doing it so that if, if there's

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ever an accusation, there's plenty of evidence because we have plenty of accountability to

protect them.

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Yep, yeah, and that's exactly it.

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And you want that accountability and at the same time, you don't want the left hand

knowing what the right hand is doing.

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So I'm not interested in 12 different people having access to the giving records.

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I think in a church, I think it's very important for everybody to know, and this is my

personal opinion, but I as a pastor never want to know what anybody's giving.

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I just don't because I don't want it to ever change the way I treat anybody.

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I don't want our leadership, our staff to ever know who gives what because that could

affect how they decide to use benevolence or anything like that.

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I just, want people to give to the Lord freely as the Lord leads them and then we ought to

minister to them freely.

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But there needs to be one person so that giving records can go out for tax season.

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But that's kind of, that's another thing we're working on, you know.

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Yeah, those are all great things.

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And I think the key here for all of our church members who are listening is that in our

church, we want to promote and respect administrative responsibilities.

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so where do I fit into this process to be able to help it?

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And that's really the issue with all of church life is I want my participation to always

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help.

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Even if I have to ask questions about wait a minute, this doesn't seem quite right.

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I'm doing it with the intention of I want to make sure that our church is healthy.

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And I want to help that to be the case, however I possibly can.

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Yeah, and ask good questions and go to people and ask them about the process.

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And that's what the church does.

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It holds the pastors and deacons accountable.

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And so I think that those are really good things.

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um so, yeah.

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to make sure we have enough time to get down to this third uh aspect here.

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And the first two words that you wrote on the notes that you gave to me, I hope you have

them in front of you because I want you to say them.

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Those those that number three, just read that first little sentence.

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Okay, the one where, application of the sermon round?

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No, not in the next one.

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Gather.

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You're good.

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and love are the main ingredients of human growth.

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By the way that I didn't come up with that George came up with that I just wanted to I

wanted to hear that from him.

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But I love love love that statement, George.

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Yeah, it's really what I believe.

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Truth and love are the main ingredients because those are the two sides to God, right?

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Amet and Chased, those you look all throughout scripture, it's truth and love, truth and

mercy, truth and mercy, truth and mercy.

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That's the loyal love of God.

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And so as I look around as a pastor, I'm asking myself, how do we more effectively unleash

the truth of God on people's lives?

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um So that the Holy Spirit can minister through that word To change people because he's

the one who really changes people I can't change people and then we have to love them too

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in the way we do it and before we do it and after we do it we just have to love them and

have relationship and so I'm looking around and going.

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Okay.

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How do I help my peep my folks in their daily devotions?

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Maybe I need to start a podcast for our church and just

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do five minutes every morning of here's what I read in my daily devotions, here's the part

of scripture we're in, do your best to read this today, pray, here's what I'm praying to

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the Lord today, you know, just simple things like that.

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How could we change Wednesday nights to be Bible courses to arm people for discipleship

and in their own development as they walk with God to become, to go from just an attender

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and member to an administrator, to a minister, you know, um and so somebody who...

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into others and what we call the circle of ministry at the exchange.

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And so how do we make sure the preaching and the song part of the service, how do we make

sure those are more effective with truth and love?

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You know, in-home discipleship groups, how do we make in-home small groups happen in our

church?

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You know, where people are getting that community feel, you know, that love, you know,

horizontally between people.

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but that they also are again having discussion and application.

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And so it's like you preach a sermon on Sunday morning, Sunday night's a great time to get

into a home setting with families and sit around and say, okay, now how do we take that

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into our week and let people actually talk?

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They've listened already that morning for hours.

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Now we let them talk.

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And so...

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And I think most people learn better when they're when they're espousing, they're talking.

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I just have seen that over and over in seminars, we learn a lot more in the discussion

times than any other times in the seminar.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.

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People, when they have to verbalize something, when they have to speak, it sticks with

them in a way that it doesn't if it's just internalized.

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Yeah, and sometimes hearing it from the guy you're sitting next to is really powerful, you

know, and to recognize, hey, this guy's got a heart for God, listen to the way he's

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talking, there's something about talking about genuine truth in that loving environment

that just really connects us with each other.

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Yep, no, I agree with you 100%.

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But yeah, those are the three areas, people, administration, truth that I've really trying

to hone in on.

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I'm not gonna be perfect at it.

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I'm not speaking to you guys as a guru because I'm just getting started and we have no

idea how it's even gonna go.

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know, God's gonna have to do it.

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to speak as the expert, I do.

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I, I, I love your heart, George.

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You always are humble and thinking down the road way down the road.

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And I just wanted to get a little bit of that for all of us today to kind of walk down and

listen to a little bit of what's going on inside of your brain as, you're contemplating.

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these these new steps in your church.

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I think it's helpful to all of us.

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Let me play a little bit of a devil's advocate.

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That's really not a nice phrase.

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I don't know why I even use that phrase, but I don't want to be the devil's anything.

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um But, but, you know, all of these things are bringing your people up to healthiness and

bringing the church as a whole the body.

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to healthiness, which is critical.

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mean, that's, that's your first job as your, as a shepherd.

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But what are, what are you thinking in regards to, getting new life into the church,

reaching people and bringing them in from the outside?

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What, I know you're working on that as well.

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Yeah, so one of the first things we did is we upped our outreach budget.

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We have deferred savings in the bank account and I just kind of, you know, looked at our

deacons and financial team and said, hey, let's put this to good use.

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uh It's great to have a cushion, but it'd be terrible if we died as a church with a

cushion, you know, so let's start reaching out.

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So we just looked all across the ministry.

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and identified several areas where we could grow and things that would lead to growth.

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Everything from branding, you know, our church is Berean Baptist Church, which comes from

Acts 17.

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But an unbeliever, an outsider, or somebody who may never have read, he's a believer, but

has never read all the way through the book of Acts, might not even understand what that

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means.

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And so how do we identify ourselves as a church to the outside?

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Does the greeter visitor process of

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how somebody goes all the way from parking lot to pew, is that clear for them?

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Like when you go to an airport, is it universal?

331

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Is it really clear that it's a safe place?

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Is it clear where their children go?

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Is it clear where to pick them up?

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Those don't sound like things that lead to growth, but they are things that lead to growth

because those are the things that detract from your ministry, from your growth.

335

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And then just being visible, your signage on the street, your signage.

336

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We are on the busiest street in this,

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the area.

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have road front property, but we're at the back end of the property and the front is a

big, huge, empty lot.

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It's several acres of empty and it's, you know, but people don't know our

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in that, in that lot, don't you?

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We have a horse, donkeys, goats that are one of the farms next to us is running out.

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to make money, but it looks like a farm.

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It looks like a farm.

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so, you know, we have to invest big money in a big sign.

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But you have to have the branding, the website.

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Most people are going to hear about you on Google.

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And so we are recruiting Google reviews from our congregation because that's the bread and

butter of a local church, like a local business is to kind of get to the top of a Google

349

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search is reviews, more and more reviews.

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So we're working on that working on a new website working on a social media team.

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We've already put together a media team Now we're gonna put together social media strategy

and a calendar We're working on Blog articles written to reach we're in a very heavy LDS

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community and there's a guy I've talked about on the podcast before here Cody and Cody has

been writing a lot of things aimed at those who come from a Mormon background

353

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and he does it in such a great way because he knows exactly how they think and that's how

he grew up.

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to heart because he's coming from that because of his need in his heart.

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So I think that's really awesome.

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And he does it in a very loving way.

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He's not confrontational.

358

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He's not trying to be in a, you know, have an apologetic kind of approach where it's like,

I'm debating you.

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He's very, very practical, loving, gets right to the heart of the matter and uses

scripture.

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And so we're going to have probably a week of evangelistic training at some point.

361

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And so, you know, and also incorporate maybe some somebody like Cody into that so we could

reach into our LDS community.

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But we'll have like an exchange seminar here.

363

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You know, and so that's one of the things on the bucket list for ah sex.

364

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two open in the fall if you're interested.

365

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Yes, we are interested.

366

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So we'll talk afterwards.

367

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I'm hoping to get a get a good deal from the exchange.

368

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I'm just kidding.

369

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But no, I think that that would be great.

370

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You and Anna could come and see it.

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You could stay with us and we'd have a lot of fun.

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But anyway, all that to say there's you do have to build this funnel and make sure people

understand that you're there.

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You exist so that they know they could come visit you.

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But if the when when people get here and there's nowhere for them to go and it looks

terrible.

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It becomes a dead end.

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you've those those.

377

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It's not what we want.

378

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But the reality is street appeal is pretty important.

379

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Yeah, curb appeal, I guess.

380

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So one of the things I know you're going to do I know, because I know you, but I really

believe that all of us need to think about this is, and I would say this to every single

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pastor who's listening right now the very best way

382

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to get your people excited about outreach is to win someone yourself.

383

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And I would just suggest to every single pastor who's listening, we each one of us need to

just get down on our knees and beg God, God give me a new soul that I can lead to the Lord

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and disciple in this next year.

385

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I there's, there's nothing that brings life into a church.

386

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like new converts.

387

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Yeah, I am.

388

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I agree with you.

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think, you know, I'm telling people in this vision Sunday on January 14th, I'm going to

tell my church, these are my goals as your pastor and how I'm going to leverage the staff

390

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and the deacons and all the heads of ministry in our church.

391

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We're going to leverage them to make this plan come alive.

392

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But there's a vision for each and every one of you is that this year you would carry two

kinds of relationships this year.

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One is that you would

394

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identify people in your life that don't know Jesus Christ as Savior and introduce them to

Jesus Christ and not only introduce them to Jesus Christ, but that if they accept you,

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disciple them and you help them grow and get started in their Christian life and take them

together until they become what we call at the exchange, you now they're a co-laborer with

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you.

397

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The other kind of relationship I think is really important is Timothy, Paul says this to

Timothy, older men with younger men, older women with younger women, this

398

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Paul and Timothy kind of relationship.

399

00:28:15,341 --> 00:28:20,783

know, the church needs to be that family, but often in church we form cliques.

400

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And so one of the things that's really important is we all identify, here's one person in

the church that I don't really know well, and I'm gonna get to know them well this year.

401

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I'm gonna do my best to build a friendship with them.

402

00:28:31,767 --> 00:28:35,907

Maybe it's the person that you see, it's unlikely to you that you're gonna build a

friendship with them.

403

00:28:35,907 --> 00:28:38,598

Maybe it's the person that you don't kind of like on the outside.

404

00:28:38,598 --> 00:28:48,386

But if all a church is is little segments of people that like each other, and it's not a

cohesive church family, we're not actually branching out to people that are not like us,

405

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then we're never gonna be the kind of church that's gonna be attractive to unbelievers.

406

00:28:53,733 --> 00:28:54,023

Yeah.

407

00:28:54,023 --> 00:29:06,269

I think it's interesting, George, that that's such a burden to you because that's what I

saw you doing in Nairobi is, is building a church with, with people that would never be

408

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close to each other in any other setting than church.

409

00:29:09,122 --> 00:29:20,028

I, you're, I don't know if we've said this before, but you had three different Sudanese

tribes represented in your church family and they don't, I mean, they fight each other in

410

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Sudan.

411

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And it's just really, really cool because that's what that's what God does in a church

family.

412

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That's the gospel.

413

00:29:26,831 --> 00:29:28,353

That's the power of the gospel.

414

00:29:28,353 --> 00:29:33,769

If there's anything, these tribes were on different sides of the civil war before this

country became a country.

415

00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:35,321

And then now they're a country.

416

00:29:35,321 --> 00:29:43,088

And then they had like this little civil war after they became a country of who gets to

actually rule the country and who gets to have the control.

417

00:29:43,088 --> 00:29:47,523

And so, you you're looking at people that say, never go to the same church.

418

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And how on earth could they come to the same church?

419

00:29:49,494 --> 00:29:53,707

There's only one way they could come to the same church is that if they truly understand

and get the gospel.

420

00:29:53,707 --> 00:29:54,388

Yeah.

421

00:29:54,388 --> 00:30:04,867

And to me, that's what we all want to get excited about in the church is what the gospel

is doing in my life, what the gospel is doing in our church body and what the gospel would

422

00:30:04,867 --> 00:30:14,106

do in my neighbor's life, in my coworkers life, getting excited about the reality of the

power of new life from Jesus.

423

00:30:14,106 --> 00:30:16,719

That's what everybody needs to get excited about.

424

00:30:16,719 --> 00:30:18,452

Yep, no, that's exactly right.

425

00:30:18,452 --> 00:30:20,523

So yeah, that's in a nutshell.

426

00:30:20,523 --> 00:30:22,564

Those are my thoughts thus far.

427

00:30:22,564 --> 00:30:33,008

And I do say, I love that you brought this up and I love that we have pointed this at, and

this is not just for pastors, any Christian, any believer listening to this podcast.

428

00:30:33,008 --> 00:30:37,702

A pastor could never pull the things that we've talked about here off by himself.

429

00:30:37,702 --> 00:30:44,378

it has to be an entire church family buying into this kind of culture and buying into the

mission and buying into the theology behind the mission.

430

00:30:44,378 --> 00:30:49,563

And if we don't buy into it as Christians in our churches sitting in the pew, then it's

not gonna happen.

431

00:30:49,563 --> 00:30:52,985

I think we're all waiting for something magical to happen up front at the top.

432

00:30:52,985 --> 00:30:55,818

And we all think, know, well, everything rises and falls on leadership.

433

00:30:55,818 --> 00:31:00,062

And in a sense it does, but if people don't follow, it's not much leadership, you know?

434

00:31:00,062 --> 00:31:01,808

And so it's like.

435

00:31:01,808 --> 00:31:03,029

two thoughts about that.

436

00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:09,855

If there's something that we've talked about today, that's not going on in your church,

then take it upon yourself to do it.

437

00:31:09,855 --> 00:31:19,740

But but number two, and I think this is critical, your pastor probably sees things in his

church, that that is not what we talked about today.

438

00:31:19,740 --> 00:31:23,213

And when he gets burdened about it, and and in these

439

00:31:23,213 --> 00:31:30,763

next few weeks as he stands up and says, this is my vision for this next year, just

determining your heart, I want to get behind that man.

440

00:31:30,763 --> 00:31:32,983

I want to follow the shepherd.

441

00:31:32,983 --> 00:31:34,957

I want to be close to the shepherd.

442

00:31:34,957 --> 00:31:36,630

I want to help the shepherd.

443

00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:43,219

And if if all of our churches were full of people who were living like that, our churches

would thrive.

444

00:31:43,219 --> 00:31:43,890

Amen.

445

00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:44,351

Amen.

446

00:31:44,351 --> 00:31:46,685

And nothing would encourage your pastor more.

447

00:31:46,685 --> 00:31:47,376

Nothing.

448

00:31:47,376 --> 00:31:50,102

So it's, yeah, we have to be unified.

449

00:31:50,102 --> 00:31:51,259

Amen, amen.

450

00:31:51,259 --> 00:31:53,228

Well, thanks for sharing that with us, George.

451

00:31:53,228 --> 00:31:55,169

Yep, and thank you guys for listening.

452

00:31:55,169 --> 00:31:59,983

uh This podcast wouldn't happen without your love, support, and sharing it with others.

453

00:31:59,983 --> 00:32:08,500

And if you can think of somebody that this would be an encouragement to, if you think this

might be encouraging to your pastor, please give it to him uh or share it with whoever.

454

00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:09,681

And we love you guys.

455

00:32:09,681 --> 00:32:13,394

Pray with us as we pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth laborers.

456

00:32:13,394 --> 00:32:17,278

The harvest is plenious, but the laborers are few.

457

00:32:17,278 --> 00:32:19,380

That I can now attest to.

458

00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:20,682

from experience.

459

00:32:20,682 --> 00:32:22,764

The laborers are few.

460

00:32:22,764 --> 00:32:24,846

So pray the Lord would multiply us.

461

00:32:24,846 --> 00:32:25,627

We love you guys.

462

00:32:25,627 --> 00:32:26,719

We'll see you next week.