So I think a lot of white people don't think about race, and I think that's a real problem. And I think that until You're willing to get, it's like fitness, like not to bring it back. Cause you know, we all know I love to work out, but like, if you don't, if you're working out and you're not uncomfortable, you're not getting stronger. And I think the same holds true for like life, like you have to sometimes put yourself into uncomfortable spaces in order to get stronger, to grow, to learn. And I think that a lot of people don't. People don't like to be uncomfortable.

We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic because we were afraid.

A Black Executive Perspective.

Welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit. And so we're live at WNHU 88. 7 on the Richter dial at the University of New Haven. We want to thank them for hosting a Black Executive Perspective podcast in their fabulous studio. Really appreciate the partnership. Go Chargers. And for you, don't forget to check out our partners, CODE M Magazine, whose mission is to save the Black family by first making Saving the black man. Check them out at CODE M magazine. com. So in the article, why it can be so hard to talk about race that was published a few weeks ago in Psychology Today, Dr., Monica T. Williams and Sonia Faber. discuss the complexities, complexities of racial discourse. They state, and I quote, "When it comes to talking about race, there's a big difference between the way white families and black families approach the subject. Studies have found that white children are typically taught from a young age not to discuss race, that it's something taboo. Something we shouldn't talk about. But the truth is, ignoring the problem of race doesn't make it go away. It only reinforces existing systems of racial inequity. On the other hand, black families don't have the luxury of ignoring race. They know that their children will be profiled and treated differently because of race. From others often as early as preschool, they understand that talking about race is not only necessary, but also empowering as it allows them to understand and navigate the world around them. It's not that white people are bad or racist, it's just they are socialized not to notice these problems. Most have been taught to see the world in a certain way, and that way doesn't include an understanding of the ways racism and bias cause harm. White people are taught not to see the racism that is right in front of them on a daily basis." Today. Our guest, Courteney Mitchell, will share her personal journey navigating the complexities of racial discussions, her experience with racial awakening, and the ongoing process of educating and self reflection. Courteney Mitchell, welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast, my sister.

Tony, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Well, thank you, Courteney, for coming on and talking about, you know, a very I will, I will say a topic that we need to talk about a lot more. So I appreciate you coming on and willing to jump in and share your story. Um, but before we jump in, let's get a little bit about you. Tell us where you're from, where you're living at, and a little bit about your background.

Sure. Uh, I've lived in Massachusetts for most of my life. I'm currently in Boston. Um, mom to two little cats. Uh, they're, they just turned six. Um, Adopted them from the rest. We rescued them from the mean streets of Newark, New Jersey. Uh, Allie and Ava. Um, I work in advertising sales in full time for my full time job. And then I have side hustles. I teach fitness, uh, around Boston and, um, do production work on large scale events.

Okay. Awesome. And look, you got your Boston gear on, right? Celtics, you know, going for the win tonight, right? They're going for the championship win.

Well, Tony, I, it's 6 1 7 and then what a more, you know, could there be a more perfect day for the Celtics to win banner 18? I was actually in the building on 6 1 7, 2008 when they destroyed the Lakers, um, in game six, so I, I've given up, go, I used to go to all of the games. Uh, now I, I watched from the couch, you know, Once you get older, the 9 p. m. start time doesn't really work out so well anymore. No, it's so true.

It's so true, right? But you're going to be up all night, because that's your team. You're going to be rooting for them, even if the game started at midnight. So you'll be there, right?

And they're so I'll be there. They're, they're, they're, they're very fun to watch this year. It's a, you know, you get a, I feel like you get like attached to teams. Like I'm definitely very attached to the, the 08 guys, you know, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Rondo, Perk, um, and you know, the cast of characters that, that helped them win then. But this team is really, really fun to watch when they're on there, they play great basketball.

Well, let's see. Um, you know, look, I love the Celtics. I love their team. I was, um, I like Luka Donic a lot. So I was rooting for them just because they're in the beginning. I thought from the beginning Boston would win. So tonight could be the night, you know, where, you know, Bean town is, is, is, uh, you know, popping champagne. So we'll see how it plays itself out.

Well, you know, Tony, I, champagne is one of my other favorite things and I got some cases in my closet down here, so.

All right, my friend. Well, listen, let me ask you this, obviously we've talked, why did you want to come on a Black Executive Perspective podcast to talk about this topic?

Well, I, you and I used to work together at Warner Media R. I. P. Um, and I think when George Floyd was murdered in 2020, people just didn't really know what to do. And you started those conversations on race, which gave. People from all walks of life within the company, a venue to be able to have these difficult conversations and learn how to have these difficult conversations with other people. And, um, I really miss those. And I was really happy to be able to sort of come on here because I've, I've honestly, Tony, I've learned so much from you in the years that we've known each other. Um, so I, I'm really happy to come on here and sort of talk about. Um, the impact that all this learning has had on me personally and professionally.

Well, thank you, my friend. I appreciate that. So you ready to talk about it?

Yeah. Let's dig in.

All right. Let's, let's talk about it. Right. And you know, one of the things when I read that article in Psychology Today, um, it was, you know, it really, I think it's something that I would, I want, hopefully our, all of our audience can go check out because it's really very eye opening. Um, and it's something that we've dealt with for centuries, um, our fear to talk about race. Right. And, you know, I remember going back, um, you know, back when the George Floyd thing happened and, you know, I got everyone together and I was just listening to people and, um, and you know, people were saying, I didn't know this was going on. You know, I wasn't aware of these things. I didn't have a clue, and these were white people, our white colleagues that were saying these things. And I was looking, I didn't say nothing, but I was looking, I'm like, how don't you know? Right? You can see these things, but as, you know, um, you know, Dr. uh, Williams and Dr. Faber stated, if, if you're brought up not to talk about race, it's taboo, and you're not, uh, nobody's teaching you to be aware of these things. You wouldn't know and I know people like that's not true. They shouldn't know. No, they wouldn't know because these things don't affect them Right. So Courteney, let's let's back up a little bit. Tell us a little bit about where you grew up You know, you know cuz look my wife She grew up outside of Boston, Maynard, Mass, okay, which was a small town, which, you know, Maynard, Mass, right? And she said it was one black family in a whole town. And she wasn't exposed to the things that I was exposed to. So talk to us a little bit about your background and how diversity either played a role or didn't play a role in your life.

Yeah, so I'm from a small town in Western Mass, probably not unlike Maynard. It's called Belchertown. It's a small town. It's halfway between Amherst where UMASS Amherst is and Springfield, which used to be a crown jewel of a city in Western mass in the early part of the 20th century. There was very little diversity. Uh, I can count on 1 hand, the number of black people that I went to high school with. Um, and then I remember going to college in, in 1997 and just being blown away by, you know, black people, people of different cultures, people from different countries, um, the, you know, the international students, gay people. I mean, in the 1990s, that, that was. I mean, you were not, there were two, you were either straight or closeted in the 1990s. There were very, I don't think there were a lot of people that were really openly gay then. Um, and so I, you know, I was raised to believe that, um, we treat everybody the way we want to be treated, regardless of what they look like or, you know, disabilities or anything like that. We're just kind to everybody. And I really loved being thrown into an environment where I got to learn about so many different cultures and types of people. Um, going to Northeastern and Boston, um, in the late nineties.

That's awesome. So growing up, uh, what was the town you grew up in again? It's

called Belchertown, uh, you can see it if you're on the Mass Pike, it used to be exit 7 and now it's exit 54.

Okay, so Belchertown, right? Not a lot of diversity, you can count on one hand of, of the students in your high school that were African American, what kids would be. So tell us a little bit about Belchertown. What was your idea about race at that time frame? And I get it, your parents brought you up, treat everybody the same, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of people say that, right? And their parents probably did teach them that. But going out and experiencing and seeing things can be totally different. So talk a little bit about your, based on how you grew up, what was your awareness when it came to race?

Honestly, Tony, and I thought a lot about this when we were talking about doing this didn't really I didn't I knew like my mom talked to me about when she was a teenager when Emmett Till was murdered and how seeing the image of him on in print really impacted her and made her, you know, a believer in the civil rights movement in the 60s. Um, but I didn't really, I didn't really ever think about it. I mean, it was funny because like, I think back now to like, in the 90s, like. Like the hip hop culture emerged. I loved hip hop music. I was into Tupac. I listened to like TLC SWV Salt N Pepa. I mean I can still rap every word to Shoop I don't remember what I ate yesterday, but you put on that song. I know every word Um brandy monica, like the music that I listen to Was very diverse, but I didn't it from like an interpersonal level. I really didn't ever think about it Like I said, it's so weird to say now like framing that now like what kind of idiot is this girl like? But it just wasn't something that was like On my radar at the time, like, I knew about the civil, I learned about the civil rights movement. I learned about, you know, the civil war and slavery and, you know, and it was 1 of those things where it's like, oh, civil rights movement. We've everything got fixed. This is we're happy. Everyone's everything's great. And I think that, um, my. Personal awakening from, from that came in like the tens when we started to have all of those publicized, like Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Sandra Bland. Those were the things that really were like, Oh, maybe everything is not fixed. And I remember thinking, seeing some of like the Philando Castile shooting broke my heart. And I remember thinking if this is all these things that are happening and now we've got phones to record everything, how many things have happened in the last You know, 50 years that we don't know about because we didn't have the technology to record everything. And that I, the thought, like, thinking about framing it that way, I was like, oh, this is, this is definitely, we got some, we have, we have got problems here. And then I think in that, at that time. You know, I, I started to look at the spaces that I was in, like, my gym and, you know, the classes that I was taking and my workplaces. And then I started to notice because again, like, I was always taught. Oh, you don't see color. Like, and I'm like, well, that was when I started to realize, like, you have to, you have to see color because if we're missing color in these spaces, why and what do we have to do to make. This a more accessible, comfortable space for everybody. And I remember having conversations with some of my black friends and one of my best friends from college. I love this girl to this day. We are still very good friends. I remember her like, and people, this is the thing, Tony, I don't think that people ever talked about this, but it's also possible because I never asked. And I remember asking her about her experiences. And she told me a story about getting pulled over by the police, driving while black. And. The officer said to her, I could do whatever I wanted to you and no one would ever believe you. And this is coming, this girl is like Wharton Business School, like brilliant girl. And like to hear that she had gone through that, I was floored. Then I started having conversations with people at the gym who were like, Oh no, we've never felt comfortable at this gym because of X, Y, and Z. And I was horrified. I'm like, well, what can I do to help make this, Like, again, like the safe space for everybody because I don't like we have this community here. And I mean, I think that looking back and again, hindsight being 2020 and framing it is, is that it's really hard to be uncomfortable. And I think that thinking about these things. Makes white people very uncomfortable. And I remember I was, I, you know, I've I'm a member of the D.A.R. One of the reasons I joined the was because I know it has a history of not being the most welcoming. And I think that you have 2 choices when you're faced with something like that. You can be like, well, I'm not doing that, or you can do it and try to change it and. I remember being in a meeting with some of my DAR sisters and they were like, what does race have to, I'm like, well, it has everything to do with it because you have to look at like the whole system.

So court court real quick though, just so everybody's on the same page. When you say DAR, what is that?

That is the Daughters of the American Revolution. So, the D. A. R., it's a great organization. The way it was framed to me, it was like, it's a networking group for history nerds. To be a member, you have to trace your lineage back to, um, someone who fought for the patriots in the American Revolution. Which, you know, And that's the other awakening I had is that, like, thinking about genealogy and that was my pandemic hobby in 2020, black people are at such a disadvantage because you run into the brick wall of slavery where there were no records, there's no records for black people for the most part before 1870. And that's one of the things that I'm hoping, you know, to be able to have an impact on. I'm doing some of their genealogy courses to be able to help, um, use DNA to connect people when there's an absence of historical paper, paper trail. Um, but I think that again, it goes back to the fact that people just don't like to be uncomfortable. And I think that's why, like, that's one of the reasons I had blinders on. And Some of these things just and again, like, I have a very diverse friend group of all, you know, me, I'm friends with everybody. Um, just having conversations with people is really what opened my eyes. To the fact that this is not fixed and that this is still a problem. And then when you delve further into it, you read about the race riots that we never learned about in school, um, Tulsa, Houston, East St. Louis, like all the stuff that happened in the 1910s, when Woodrow Wilson was in office fanning the flames of, um, Racism by, you know, re segregating things have been unsegregated. He re segregated a lot of things in the government. And, um, you know, it's, you have to pay attention to these things. And that's, I think one of the cool things about what you're doing is I think from you, I learned that you really have to like, and I'm, I'm a, I'm an, I'm an, a very intellectually curious person. I love to go down a rabbit hole. So, you know, when stuff comes up, I love to read about it and research it. And, um, I think that's one of the things that is really important to getting more people to come around to the fact that things are not fixed and there are things that we can do. To, to, you know, help, help. Right. Bring light to some of these issues.

Right, right. So, so number 1, thank you, Courteney. And just, I want to let the audience know, um, this is, this is Courteney. She didn't have 8, uh, cups of coffee today. This is just who she is. She's, she's very high energetic. Individual, right? And so number one, I love her a lot and I'm so glad that she's on and she's sharing. I just want to back up because you said a whole lot and I want to back up a little bit, right? But that's just who you are, Courteney. So it's all

good. No, no,

it's just who you are. So it's all good. Right? So let's back up because I want to, I want to make sure we get back to the DAR thing. And there's a couple other things, but I want to go back just a little bit further. Cause you said, your parents said, um, You know, you're not supposed to see color. Okay. And again, going back to what Dr. Williams and stuff said is that white families teach their children not to notice race, not to talk about race. Right. So when you say, you know, you're not supposed to, even though, and here's the thing, your parents, Um, sound awesome. You said your mother talked about, um, Emmett Till and she remembered that and that, you know, struck a chord with her and she, they brought you up to, to, you know, uh, treat everybody the same. So all those things are great. There's that's awesome. Right. Cause there's a lot of families. They don't even do that. Okay. But I just want to back up. I want to just put a pin in here. When, when your parents says. don't see color. And then going back to what Dr. Williams and Dr. Faber says is that white families are taught not to talk about race, right? And because they don't talk about it, they don't see the racism in front of you. So I want to, is there, do you think that's a correlation in terms of your mother saying, Don't, I mean, treat, don't see color and then to your point, you're not, you're, you're not noticing a lot of stuff until you went to college and stuff, even though you are, you know, intellectual, curious, you're a smart individual. You love history. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Yeah, I mean, I think I don't necessarily know if it was that or the fact that I just grew up with no color like, um, Belchertown and I think it's changed. I don't go home very I'm I have my parents. So

just to be clear, though, so when you say when you say don't grow up, you didn't grow up with any color. You're basically saying you didn't grow up with a lot of diversity around you. Is that what you're saying? Not

at all.

Correct.

Um, and I think it might have, it's probably changed. I, I haven't, I don't, I don't not really up on the demographics of the town now, but in the nineties, it was very white.

Right, right, right, right. Well, tell me a little bit about your friends. Did race come up at all with your friends? Or, you know, was there any, you know, uh, derogatory terms or phrases that were said? Or was it just because there was no people of color, they didn't really even talk about it. Tell us a little bit about that. There

was no people of color and we didn't really even talk about it.

So you didn't even talk about it. Okay, okay, all right. Yeah. Go ahead.

And, and then you contrast that, like when the George Floyd thing happened, I remember we had a call at Warner and I remember one of our coworkers crying on the zoom and it made me cry having to talk about how she talked to her sons about dealing with police. And that I never would have even thought about that. And I just remember being so floored that this woman had to have this conversation with, with her children. White people would never have to have that conversation with their kids. How to, you know, That there could be a possibility that I could go out wearing a hoodie and a hat and and get shot at like I would never even thought that would never even cross the minds of anybody in in my space,

right? And I

think that that's the type of people had to have. I was completely that that really impacted me.

So you were saying that, you know, when you went to college, uh, it was a rainbow coalition on paraphrase, right? You were able to have friends from different backgrounds, religions, sexuality to hone nine yards and it really broadened your horizons. Yeah, and I think you told one story of your friend, um, but what did you learn out of that that you didn't learn when you were growing up, um, in your town Belcher?

Well, I think that, that I learned a lot about different countries and backgrounds. Like we had, I had friends that were in the, um, The Indian Students Association and friends in like the gay and lesbian and a lot of the international students. I was involved in the student government. Um, I was involved in Greek life. Greek life was pretty white, although we did have the, um, the NPC, we had the regular. Panhellenic and Greek life. And then we did have the, like, the alpha cap alpha was on our, uh, sigma gamma row. Um, and so I was, I mean, this is, you know, me, I'm friendly with everybody everywhere I go. I'm like, I love to meet people. I love to talk to people. I love to learn about people. Um, I just think I took it as a learning experience to learn about different people's backgrounds and how they grew up, where they grew up, what was different about where they grew up versus where I grew up. Um, and like just broadening my worldview. I mean, at this point too, and I didn't really travel. I went out of the country once when I was in high school, we went to school trip to Costa Rica, and that was my only time ever having been out of the U. S. And, um, so it was really cool to, like, learn about all these different cultures and read about all these different cultures, places that I'd never been. Right. Um, I think for me, I just use it as a learning experience and again, like never not thinking, thinking about like treating everybody equally. Everybody, my mom always used to say like, you know, you know, but by the grace of God, you're lucky to grow up who you are. You could have this, you know, you could have grown up anyway. And So I always just was, I think my whole philosophy in life is like, just treat, be kind. Um, it's, it's takes the same amount of effort to be nice as it does to be a jerk. So why would you choose to be a jerk? Um, I think that for me, like I just used the, the learning about different cultures to sort of, again, just broaden my horizons. I never thought anything like, Oh, that person is from here. Ew. Like, yeah, I

mean, you, you,

that was not in my,

yeah, you, you've always been a very open individual, right? Let me, let me ask you this. Um, yeah. And I want to back up to the DAR thing. Cause you said, and what, what, and what does it stand for again? Daughters. Yeah.

Uh, the Daughters of the American Revolution. Okay,

Daughters of the American Legion. And you said you, you joined, um, you know, your history buff. You said that, um, somebody said, Why does race have anything to do with it? Talk, tell us what happened there.

So, I was talking, I can't remember what I was talking about. It might have been my race in the military thing. Oh, or we were, we were having some sort of conversation and I said, well, The context of it, I don't remember, but I just remember her being like, well, why would you feel guilty about that? It happened a hundred years ago. And I'm like, I don't feel, I don't feel guilty about it. I feel badly that this happened to this group of people. And now they've been basically disenfranchised for 150 years. Um, and I think that a lot of people think about. You know, I think a lot of white people don't think about race and I think that's a real problem. And I think that until you're willing to get, it's like fitness, like, not to bring it back. Because, you know, we all know I love to work out, but like, if you don't, if you're working out and you're not uncomfortable, you're not getting stronger. And I think the same holds true for like. life you have to sometimes put yourself into uncomfortable spaces in order to get stronger, to grow, to learn. And I think that a lot of people don't, people don't like to be uncomfortable. People want to become, people want to be happy. I mean, who doesn't love, everybody loves to be comfortable, but sometimes you have to just get uncomfortable. And I think that especially older people of certain, you know, not to like. Smirch, the, the boomers or the silent generation. But I think that a lot of those people, the way that they were raised was to like not talk about it. And I think that's, that's how my generation, I'm Gen X. mm-Hmm. I think that's how we were raised. We were, we didn't talk about it. And then in my, I mean. Our lifetime, you know, I was too young for Vietnam, so I don't, I don't have any recollection of that. Um, we had like, you know, the, the Berlin Wall came down, we had Operation Desert Storm and Iraqi, you know, Iraqi freedom in the early 90s. And then we had 9 11. We've, our generation, like, we have had a very peaceful life. If you think about it in context to like other generations in history, we've not been sent to, you know, go die in a trench or, you know, to land on a beach and, and face the gun nests. Um, and I think that people just don't like to think about things that are unpleasant. And I think that racism is one of those things that people like to not think about because it's not pleasant to think about. And if you have, you actually think about it, you're going to have like a reckoning as to like how messed up it is and how, like, like, I remember reading about red line, red lining and, and the ways that, um, black people have not been able to build generational wealth that puts them at a severe disadvantage compared to, you know, white people. Um, and it, like, how do we, like, this has to be fixed.

So Courteney, let me ask you this, you know, when I started the Open Conversation, um, on race session at work, you know, one of the things I wanted to do, I wanted to get everybody to come together. I wanted people to finally be in a safe space where they can hear other people's perspectives without, uh, having to be, without being judged or attacked or if the case may be. And so, you know, we came up with ground rules. But the main thing I needed to do was for me to be authentic and be vulnerable. I needed to share my biases, things that I deal with, right? And you know, and I, and I, and I, every human being has biases and I had my own. And that was, you know, I had to be vulnerable there. If I'm looking for other people to be vulnerable. Okay. For other people to say, aha, I got it. For other people to say, you know what? Okay. I was brought up this way or I believe this and you know what, I, I, I, I, I'm open to learning more, right? So I shared those things and one was about the gay community growing up. You know, hearing, being preached about this is wrong, this is this, this is that you're a young kid, you grow up and you believe that and that's what you run out to the world with. Right. So let me ask you this. You grow up, you got a great, um, family, you know, you are willing to, you're open to, to all different type of people, but you know, going through your awakening, you know, Did you recognize any biases that you had?

Well, I mean, I grew up in the eighties and nineties. And again, I think I said this earlier, like in that time you were either straight or closeted. And I remember also having a little bit of bias towards the gay community. My mother shut that down right away. My mom had gay friends, my mom, it works in psychology. And, um, she shut that down, but it wasn't until I actually Met gay people and became friends with them that I sort of and that's the I think the common theme when I've like looked at things When I meet people and spend time with them and learn about them The biases go away because i'm like, oh, I like that person as a human Uh, abraham lincoln had a great quote. I don't like that man I must get to know him better and I think that for me anytime I trend towards being like, oh I I try to think I try to see the good in people. Um for me, I think as a You I, I call myself a lifelong Masshole. Um, I think that I do have a bias and I, I, this is something I've had to work on against people from like rural Southern America, um, particularly as the political divide in this country has, uh, gotten wider. Um, and when I, when I think about like my first inclination, when I react to something, Sometimes I feel that and then I have to like take a step back and sort of reframe my perception and be like, okay, we're all Americans. Everybody here had, this is the best part about America is that we all have the right to our own opinion. I don't tell you what to think. I don't want you to tell me what to think. And I certainly don't want the government to tell me what to think. And I think that for me, like that taking a step back or like, okay, um, similar to you, like when you don't know about something, there's like that fear there. Right. And you and I, we've talked about that in the conversations on race. False. Um, what is it?

False evidence appearing real

evidence appearing real. And, um, I think that a lot of times, like, I'll like having that, like, that was such an eye opener when you did that session on fear. And I'll think, okay, is what is driving this? And, um, I think that for a while I had the same bias thinking about the transgender community. And I remember the conversation on race we had, where we talked about trans women in women's sports. And that completely changed my perspective, because again, like when you actually delve into it and look at the facts and talk to people, it's not really that much of a problem, but people like to, you know, Use fear to, to make it a problem where there's none to drive whatever agenda they're pushing. And I think that for me with biases, it's like trying to find a human connection with somebody in that group to make, it helps me understand that group better and helps me again, shift that perception to be coming, not coming from a place of fear, but coming from a place of like empathy and understanding.

No, that, that is great. And you know, that's, that's the thing, right? Is that You know, we have a bias nine times out of 10 on something that we've never experienced. All right. And then to your point, once you experience, and that's the greatest teacher is, is meeting new people, meeting all different type of people and learning from all of them. Right. And, you know, from that standpoint, now you may not. I may not like somebody because I don't like their personality. Okay. They can be arrogant or they can be this and that. That's something totally different versus I don't like this group of people. Okay. Just because somebody told me something or because one person in that group did something wrong to me. Now I'm pretty much going to label the whole group, right? So, so I appreciate you sharing that right now. How do you continue to keep yourself educated? In terms of, because it's a big world, right? And nobody knows everything. So how do you continue to stay educated when it comes to diversity?

Well, you know me, I am a voracious reader and consumer of media. I love the news. I, I know that a lot of people in America have news fatigue right now because of the last, we'll say 10 years. Um, it's, it can be exhausting to, you know, it's not good news. It doesn't make you feel good. Um, sometimes all I want to do is look at, like, Reels of people's pets. Um, but you have, like, we have to stay informed. It's our job to, to stay informed. So I love to go down the rabbit hole. As I said, um, documentaries, uh, books, uh, TV shows, movies, um, you know, I, that is how I stay educated. And I also, you know, again, try to foster human connection. If I don't understand something, I ask about it. Um, like when all that stuff was happening in the mid tens with, you know, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Sandra Bland, I had conversations with my black friends, um, when the, the situation in, you know, in the Middle East right now with Israel and Hamas. I have conversations. I have come, I've met a random person in a, um, a LinkedIn group who used to be a member of the IDF and has since like defected to the United States. And I got on the phone with this person and had a wonderful conversation about what it was like and what their feelings were on the whole crisis. I, you know, have conversations with my Jewish friends about how one of my friends was with her daughter in their small town in New York. And there was an anti Jewish rally, like what year are we in? And like, just trying to have these conversations, ask people questions. And so that I can get a better understanding of how people who may be feeling marginalized are feeling. And then, you know, one of the things with all the situation in the Middle East is, you know, a lot of my Jewish friends don't feel supported. And I think we, on one of our last conversations on race, we like our friend, Gab talked about. And I like was crying like it when you have these conversations and you can you can come at it from the perspective like put yourself in someone else's shoes. I think that helps me now before that conversation with gab. I might have told you that. I don't think that. You know, the government after World War One had a right to or after World War Two had a right to give that land away with her perspective sharing. Like, I do believe now that the Jewish people deserve to have a homeland and these people have to get along. And I think that little efforts, you know, trying to just show your support and and be an ally. I think that was the other thing after the George Floyd. Uh murder like you can't be silent about this stuff and just think that Silence can be complicitness in in some of this this stuff And if I don't come out after george floyd, I felt compelled, you know me. I don't post a lot on social media I felt compelled to write a huge facebook post about being an anti racist and all the things that have impacted me to make me Have that point of view and I think that that's it's it's similar Like you have to take a stand you have to say something you have to you know, have those conversations Transcribed And, and make your friends, you know, show your friends that you support them.

That's awesome. That is really awesome. So thanks for sharing that. So final thoughts, what, some of the things, um, you know, give us some final thoughts and what advice would you give listeners who's listening to this? All right. Um, who may not be as enlightened as you, who may still live in that small town where there's not a lot of diversity, who may still, may be afraid. Um, because of all the things that's pushed from a media standpoint about different groups and stuff to that nature, right? So, and let's be fair. There are people that's that, that way. That doesn't make them evil or bad. It's just, you know, they're not informed. So what recommendations would you give them?

I would say, listen, have conversations with people, find people to have conversations with. We have the internet, like you can go find anybody to have a conversation with. Um, if you want to do it anonymously, go on Reddit. Reddit has forums for everything. Um, yes, some of the people are trolls and you got to weed out, weed out that. I would say base yourself in fact, always check the sources on things. Don't just read something and be like, well, that's. That's fact, like make sure you're getting it from credible news sources. Make sure you're having conversations with real people and be willing to just listen without judgment. So I know like we're human, right? You can, someone can tell, like, I remember being someone, a friend of mine. In New York was telling me that she had as a black woman had a hard time finding a cab to stop for her. And now Courteney, the fixer is like, well, did you do this? Did you? And you can't ask those questions. You just listen and you empathize and you remember that your friend how it feels this way. It's how they feel. You take that and, you know, I, I have gone to New York with this particular friend and gone out and gotten us a cab because I, I know that she doesn't feel comfortable with that. And I think that, again, just learning and, and being able to be a good listener and being able to approach situations with empathy. Um, and then again, if you feel like you don't like someone, try to get to know it a little bit better before you write it off. There's always ways to find the good in people and, or things. Um, and remember that, especially if you're here in the U. S., like, that's the beautiful thing about America, is we all have the right to have Our own feelings and and opinions and don't don't be judgmental. I think judge don't judge like lose the judgment that I think would be if we could do that. Um, but, yeah, I mean, learn, I go down the rabbit hole visit museums. I will say, um, if you're in Washington, D. C, the National Museum of African American history and culture is probably 1 of my favorite places that I've ever been. And I have, I have. Then twice for, like, 3 hours each time, and I still have, like, half the place to see, um, you the 5th floor and you and I've talked about this. There's an exhibit on black people in the military. And I went down a real rabbit hole there and culminating in me, like, visiting all these battlefields and historical sites in Europe. So I just like, be open to learning and be curious and be kind, like our old, our old boss, Tony used to say, stay curious and be kind.

Uh, well, thank you, my friend. And look, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing, you know, not just in terms of, um, the words, but how you share with your passion, your energy. Um, you know, I think this is something that a lot of people can learn from, and I really appreciate you as a person. Um, and I know you go out and all the people that you touch, they feel the same about you, right? Is that the energy that you bring, the love that you push out there. And, you know, I said this a long time ago, um, life is like a boomerang. Whatever you throw out comes back. So Courteney Mitchell. Thanks for appearing on a Black Executive Perspective podcast and sharing your perspective.

Tony, thank you so much for having me. You have, uh, you have changed my life and my, my, uh, given me the ability to have these difficult conversations with people in a respectful way. And I will forever be appreciative of that.

So I think it's now time for Tony's Tidbit. And the tidbit today is Conversations on race can be uncomfortable, but the only way to improve our understanding and reduce bias is through open dialogue. honest and respectful dialogue. And you heard that today, Courteney Mitchell. So really appreciate that. So I want to remind everybody about our new BEP segment, Need to Know with Nsenga. You don't want to miss it. It comes out each Thursday. Need to Know segment by Dr. Nsenga Burton. Where Dr. Burton is going to dive into the timely, crucial topics that shape our community and world. You want to definitely tune in to gain a unique insights and deepen your understanding. Of the issues that matter. Don't want to miss this every Thursday on BEP. Don't miss this week's Need to Know with Dr. Nsenga Burton. So I think it's now time for our call to action. Again, this is something that's very important to a Black Executive Perspective podcast. We exist because we have this platform where we can We want to have open and honest discussion to bring people together to heighten their awareness. Our goal is to decrease racism and all the isms. So we're asking everyone, and this is something that everyone can do. It's something that you can control. Incorporate our call to action, which stands for less. L. E. S. S. L. stands for learn. As Courteney said earlier, you want to learn about new people, new perspectives, history, things that you're not privy to, to make you more enlightened. E stands for empathy. Once you've learned, you should become more empathetic to other groups and other individuals. S stands for share. We want everyone to learn and be enlightened. So you want to share what you learned to your friends and family. And the other S stands for stop. Our goal, your goal is to stop discrimination as it comes in your path, right? So if you hear grandma or grandpa or uncle Joe. Auntie Carol say in your path at the dinner table about a certain group, you say, Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle, Aunt. We don't believe in that. We don't say that. And so you stop that discrimination right then. And by everyone doing this, we're going to create a more deeper and understanding world. And more importantly, we'll all be able to see the change that we want to see. This is something that we all can do one by one. You start in your own family and guess what? We'll see that change. So I really appreciate you spending the time, investing the time to listen to another episode of a black executive perspective podcast. You can continue to follow us wherever you get your podcast. You can follow us on our social channels of LinkedIn X, YouTube. Instagram and TikTok at ablackexec for our fabulous, energetic, loving guests, Courteney Mitchell for Noel Miller, the producer behind the scenes, that's making all this happen at the university of New Haven. I'm Tony tidbit. We talked about it. We love you. And we're out

a black executive perspective.