1 00:00:05,981 --> 00:00:09,521 Eddie: Welcome to episode 32 of the web joy podcast. 2 00:00:09,911 --> 00:00:10,991 I'm your host Eddie. 3 00:00:11,291 --> 00:00:15,401 And in this podcast, we interview guests about their origin story and 4 00:00:15,401 --> 00:00:20,081 what makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community. 5 00:00:20,411 --> 00:00:22,271 I hope you enjoyed today's episode. 6 00:00:22,571 --> 00:00:25,481 You never know where it's going to take you with Rochelle. 7 00:00:25,481 --> 00:00:26,141 Horary. 8 00:00:27,612 --> 00:00:30,492 Welcome to another episode of Web Joy. 9 00:00:30,732 --> 00:00:34,032 Today we have Rochelle with us, and I'm excited. 10 00:00:34,362 --> 00:00:36,912 Rochelle, say hi to our listeners. 11 00:00:37,092 --> 00:00:37,842 Rashel: Hi everyone. 12 00:00:37,842 --> 00:00:40,482 Thanks so much for asking me to join your podcast. 13 00:00:40,482 --> 00:00:44,532 I'm super excited to chat with you about all things marketing, tech, 14 00:00:44,982 --> 00:00:46,962 and, uh, being a non-technical 15 00:00:46,962 --> 00:00:47,412 Eddie: and tech. 16 00:00:47,737 --> 00:00:51,607 That's really exciting because I think a lot of people on the podcast 17 00:00:51,607 --> 00:00:53,827 so far have been pretty technical. 18 00:00:53,917 --> 00:00:58,267 We've had couple people less so recruiters, you know, things like that. 19 00:00:58,267 --> 00:00:59,787 But I'm excited to mm-hmm. 20 00:00:59,872 --> 00:01:01,927 be chatting with someone who's a little bit in a different 21 00:01:01,927 --> 00:01:04,717 space that the listeners don't always get to hear from a lot. 22 00:01:04,957 --> 00:01:05,227 Rashel: Yeah. 23 00:01:05,227 --> 00:01:09,242 I definitely think I can, uh, Bring a different perspective to the podcast, 24 00:01:09,242 --> 00:01:13,892 especially from the side of the marketer, cuz obviously in tech product is always 25 00:01:13,892 --> 00:01:17,762 first and then you have all these like services and, and different departments 26 00:01:17,762 --> 00:01:19,352 around that support the product. 27 00:01:19,357 --> 00:01:20,582 So happy to be joining you from 28 00:01:20,582 --> 00:01:21,332 Eddie: the marketing angle. 29 00:01:21,482 --> 00:01:25,562 I guess to get started, if you just want to kind of share who you are, what 30 00:01:25,562 --> 00:01:29,612 you do, a brief intro so that everyone kind of knows where we're coming. 31 00:01:30,177 --> 00:01:30,447 Rashel: Yeah. 32 00:01:30,477 --> 00:01:30,837 Love it. 33 00:01:30,957 --> 00:01:32,217 My name is Rochelle Hariri. 34 00:01:32,217 --> 00:01:35,517 I have over 13 years of experience in the digital marketing space. 35 00:01:35,937 --> 00:01:41,097 I've worked from anywhere, from nonprofit to banking to food and beverage 36 00:01:41,097 --> 00:01:43,077 at McDonald's and tech at Shopify. 37 00:01:43,437 --> 00:01:46,497 And most recently I've been consulting as an independent 38 00:01:46,497 --> 00:01:48,087 consultant and fractional C M O. 39 00:01:48,087 --> 00:01:51,657 So I've been doing this for just over a year and a half. 40 00:01:51,987 --> 00:01:55,077 So I work with a lot of different companies in the tech space and also some 41 00:01:55,082 --> 00:01:56,977 D to C companies as well with helping. 42 00:01:57,522 --> 00:02:00,642 Build their brand, build their marketing teams and departments, 43 00:02:00,642 --> 00:02:03,402 and help them really align on what that vision should be for their 44 00:02:03,402 --> 00:02:03,822 Eddie: company. 45 00:02:04,002 --> 00:02:04,932 That's really cool. 46 00:02:05,052 --> 00:02:07,602 How did you get involved in that, right? 47 00:02:07,602 --> 00:02:09,402 I guess, what's your origin story? 48 00:02:09,402 --> 00:02:11,772 What made you think marketing seems cool? 49 00:02:11,772 --> 00:02:12,552 I'd like to do that. 50 00:02:12,832 --> 00:02:16,882 Rashel: I grew up watching a lot of nineties movies and there was always 51 00:02:16,882 --> 00:02:22,222 like the advertising exec, or like the marketing person who lived in New York 52 00:02:22,222 --> 00:02:24,082 and had a really cool, exciting job. 53 00:02:24,087 --> 00:02:28,702 And when I grew up my, my father was an entrepreneur and so I always knew like I 54 00:02:28,707 --> 00:02:30,562 wanted to start my own business somehow. 55 00:02:30,832 --> 00:02:34,792 I also was really attracted to the creativity of the advertising 56 00:02:34,942 --> 00:02:36,862 space and marketing in part. 57 00:02:37,367 --> 00:02:41,147 And so from a very young age, I knew that that's either I was gonna 58 00:02:41,147 --> 00:02:44,927 go into the marketing field or interior design, and I went marketing 59 00:02:45,257 --> 00:02:47,417 And so they, hey, never say never. 60 00:02:47,417 --> 00:02:50,747 I could always still like transition into design, but that was always like 61 00:02:50,747 --> 00:02:53,597 from a young age, I knew that that was sort of the space that I wanted to go 62 00:02:53,602 --> 00:02:58,367 in, and that's just what I pursued in university all throughout university. 63 00:02:58,372 --> 00:03:01,347 Once I graduated, It was just written in my D n a 64 00:03:01,347 --> 00:03:01,857 Eddie: almost. 65 00:03:02,067 --> 00:03:02,487 Wow. 66 00:03:02,487 --> 00:03:03,477 That's really interesting. 67 00:03:03,477 --> 00:03:06,837 I love that you had this idea that that's what you wanted to do. 68 00:03:06,837 --> 00:03:10,977 So early on I feel like a lot of people kind of stumble around, right? 69 00:03:11,127 --> 00:03:13,527 Investigate different things that interest them. 70 00:03:13,947 --> 00:03:15,927 It's funny cuz I have a similar background. 71 00:03:15,927 --> 00:03:20,127 Like I pretty much grew up interested in technology and I knew that I 72 00:03:20,127 --> 00:03:21,717 wanted to do technology stuff. 73 00:03:21,807 --> 00:03:24,547 I didn't necessarily always, What I was gonna do. 74 00:03:24,607 --> 00:03:24,697 Mm-hmm. 75 00:03:24,937 --> 00:03:29,227 . But like I built my own computer following like this book that was telling you how 76 00:03:29,227 --> 00:03:30,997 to build a computer at like 12 years old. 77 00:03:31,207 --> 00:03:34,117 So I've just always been like, computers are cool and I 78 00:03:34,117 --> 00:03:35,707 wanna do stuff with computers. 79 00:03:36,187 --> 00:03:36,217 , I 80 00:03:36,217 --> 00:03:36,847 Rashel: love that. 81 00:03:36,847 --> 00:03:41,467 I think like, I love hearing people's origin stories too, because you hear about 82 00:03:41,472 --> 00:03:46,362 like, These influences that you have as a child and how they really impact you 83 00:03:46,362 --> 00:03:49,272 as you get older and you mature and you figure out what you wanna do in life. 84 00:03:49,272 --> 00:03:51,852 And so I love that when you were 12 you made your own computer. 85 00:03:51,852 --> 00:03:52,542 That's genius. 86 00:03:52,812 --> 00:03:53,892 Eddie: It's cool to see, right? 87 00:03:53,897 --> 00:03:58,332 How those different experiences and things shape us and guide us and. 88 00:03:58,857 --> 00:04:01,737 We never necessarily end up where we think we're gonna be. 89 00:04:01,737 --> 00:04:02,007 Right. 90 00:04:02,007 --> 00:04:02,787 I mean, no one can. 91 00:04:02,817 --> 00:04:02,907 Yeah. 92 00:04:03,087 --> 00:04:04,737 Look 20 years in the future. 93 00:04:05,247 --> 00:04:08,637 Economies change, technologies change, everything changes. 94 00:04:08,937 --> 00:04:12,837 But it's cool to see kind of the paths when we look backward. 95 00:04:13,047 --> 00:04:17,457 I actually just saw Tweet today that someone said about a saying 96 00:04:17,457 --> 00:04:19,227 that Steve Jobs said, which was. 97 00:04:19,602 --> 00:04:24,102 Essentially like you can never see how all the dots line up ahead of time. 98 00:04:24,432 --> 00:04:28,212 You can only go through them and look back and see how the dots 99 00:04:28,212 --> 00:04:32,022 aligned to get you where you were today, which is pretty cool. 100 00:04:32,532 --> 00:04:33,342 Rashel: I absolutely agree. 101 00:04:33,342 --> 00:04:33,822 I think like. 102 00:04:34,407 --> 00:04:37,167 As you're thinking about your journey through life, like, I know we're talking 103 00:04:37,167 --> 00:04:40,887 a lot about like tech and careers, but it's a big part of your, your life, and 104 00:04:40,887 --> 00:04:44,067 I think there needs to be a good balance between what you wanna contribute to the 105 00:04:44,067 --> 00:04:47,487 world and what you wanna work on and how you wanna influence and work with people 106 00:04:47,487 --> 00:04:48,897 around you in the mark that you leave. 107 00:04:48,902 --> 00:04:52,497 And so, It's, I like that you're talking about the Steve Jobs, the, the Dotted. 108 00:04:52,557 --> 00:04:55,677 And maybe because I'm Persian, I've always, uh, my, I guess sort 109 00:04:55,677 --> 00:04:58,407 of like metaphor was, has always been like, you always know that 110 00:04:58,407 --> 00:05:01,287 you're weaving, like there's a rug , you know, like Persian rugs. 111 00:05:01,557 --> 00:05:02,607 Like, you know that there's a rug. 112 00:05:02,637 --> 00:05:05,787 You don't know what the design is gonna be, you know, the output of what. 113 00:05:06,222 --> 00:05:09,942 You want to create, but the steps that you take, the colors that you use, 114 00:05:09,942 --> 00:05:14,292 how you create this thing is gonna change as you develop and progress. 115 00:05:14,472 --> 00:05:17,712 But in the end, you know, like what the end product would be. 116 00:05:17,892 --> 00:05:18,342 Eddie: Nice. 117 00:05:18,582 --> 00:05:22,602 I love, which is love that . Well, and that's cool because oftentimes 118 00:05:22,602 --> 00:05:24,042 you look at the back of a rug, right? 119 00:05:24,497 --> 00:05:25,757 Which like mm-hmm. 120 00:05:25,937 --> 00:05:30,497 , it doesn't quite strands go from here to there so that the same string can be 121 00:05:30,497 --> 00:05:34,517 going, like, it doesn't always make as much sense as when you flip the rug over 122 00:05:34,517 --> 00:05:36,677 and then you see this beautiful design. 123 00:05:36,677 --> 00:05:38,297 So that's really cool. 124 00:05:38,597 --> 00:05:41,387 You've been in the same field marketing for a while. 125 00:05:41,507 --> 00:05:45,407 You've kind of gotten started in other companies and then you had this 126 00:05:45,407 --> 00:05:49,907 shift where you went from being in marketing with companies outside of 127 00:05:49,907 --> 00:05:51,917 the tech industry to working with shop. 128 00:05:52,712 --> 00:05:54,932 How did that shift go for you? 129 00:05:54,932 --> 00:05:55,232 Right. 130 00:05:55,232 --> 00:05:58,082 What differences did you notice in your role? 131 00:05:58,112 --> 00:05:59,192 Did it feel the same? 132 00:05:59,192 --> 00:05:59,972 Did it feel different? 133 00:05:59,972 --> 00:06:02,312 Kind of talk to us what that transition looked like for you. 134 00:06:02,492 --> 00:06:02,942 I certainly 135 00:06:02,942 --> 00:06:07,382 Rashel: think that there is that same thread of marketing that goes through, 136 00:06:07,387 --> 00:06:13,322 so like once you understand brand positioning, once you understand consumer 137 00:06:13,322 --> 00:06:17,042 insights, the psychology of why people buy, how they connect with brands, 138 00:06:17,402 --> 00:06:18,962 you can kind of take that and mold. 139 00:06:19,477 --> 00:06:21,217 Into the different industries that you're in. 140 00:06:21,457 --> 00:06:25,597 And so in my experience, I think it was like a, a natural launching pad for 141 00:06:25,597 --> 00:06:30,307 me while I was at McDonald's because I actually joined the digital team. 142 00:06:30,337 --> 00:06:32,347 So I was like the first employee on the digital team. 143 00:06:32,347 --> 00:06:34,747 It was me and the head of technology and the head of digital. 144 00:06:35,137 --> 00:06:36,607 So it was the perfect branch. 145 00:06:36,607 --> 00:06:42,777 We were kind of like, This like startup within a very corporate company that 146 00:06:42,777 --> 00:06:46,017 had been around like a very successful global billion dollar business. 147 00:06:46,227 --> 00:06:48,117 And we were doing things on the digital side. 148 00:06:48,117 --> 00:06:51,357 So we were driving digital marketing, the kiosks in the restaurants, 149 00:06:51,357 --> 00:06:54,838 launching that app for McDonald's, which you can now order and, and 150 00:06:54,843 --> 00:06:55,857 do all these great things with. 151 00:06:56,527 --> 00:07:00,072 And so that's really what got me to think a little bit differently about 152 00:07:00,132 --> 00:07:04,962 how I was approaching marketing and thinking about pursuing a career in tech. 153 00:07:04,962 --> 00:07:08,382 Because as a lot of other non-technical people, you often 154 00:07:08,382 --> 00:07:09,762 think, well, I wanna get into tech. 155 00:07:09,767 --> 00:07:12,642 I'm interested in technology, I'm interested in in SAS products, 156 00:07:12,972 --> 00:07:16,602 and I love creating things, but what's my entry point? 157 00:07:16,602 --> 00:07:20,712 How do I get in there if I'm not an engineer or you know, like a UX designer? 158 00:07:20,932 --> 00:07:23,992 And so that was kind of the natural progression of my journey is I was 159 00:07:23,992 --> 00:07:27,532 on the digital team, we were working on these great projects and products 160 00:07:27,952 --> 00:07:30,832 and it was a great evolution because then, you know, when there was an 161 00:07:30,832 --> 00:07:34,342 opportunity at Shopify, I was able to take a lot of that experience 162 00:07:34,347 --> 00:07:36,142 I had and move it over to a tech 163 00:07:36,142 --> 00:07:36,622 Eddie: company. 164 00:07:36,862 --> 00:07:37,912 That makes a lot of sense, right? 165 00:07:37,912 --> 00:07:42,862 Finding things that are in your general area that are connected to 166 00:07:42,862 --> 00:07:47,062 you, that you can make these small shifts that then lay the foundation 167 00:07:47,062 --> 00:07:48,622 for when you wanna make a bigger. 168 00:07:49,377 --> 00:07:55,167 You have some kind of experience in your career to say, Hey, company X, I do have 169 00:07:55,167 --> 00:07:59,727 experience with this, and now I'm ready to take that experience to the next level. 170 00:07:59,732 --> 00:08:04,767 I love that kind of shift and then, you know, kind of step up type of a move. 171 00:08:04,917 --> 00:08:05,247 For sure. 172 00:08:05,252 --> 00:08:05,577 And also 173 00:08:05,582 --> 00:08:11,167 Rashel: I think like, Sometimes you need to just do things in your career and try 174 00:08:11,167 --> 00:08:14,707 things, whether it's like being on the board of something or being a volunteer, 175 00:08:14,712 --> 00:08:18,457 or just putting yourself out there and trying things that you like because you 176 00:08:18,457 --> 00:08:20,737 never know where it's gonna take you. 177 00:08:20,737 --> 00:08:22,777 And it's kind of like we were talking about that journey and that, 178 00:08:22,777 --> 00:08:24,367 that, that pattern or the weaving. 179 00:08:24,762 --> 00:08:26,022 You gotta put yourself out there. 180 00:08:26,022 --> 00:08:29,892 And, and even like an example I have is when I, um, started working for 181 00:08:30,222 --> 00:08:34,332 McDonald's, I had no idea, but previously I was, um, heading social media for 182 00:08:34,422 --> 00:08:35,922 in Toronto, the Santa Claus Parade. 183 00:08:36,252 --> 00:08:38,442 And it was just something I was volunteering for cuz it had 184 00:08:38,447 --> 00:08:40,872 been a parade I'd gone through, gone to since I was a kid. 185 00:08:41,507 --> 00:08:46,042 . And little did I know that actually the head of McDonald's Canada is, 186 00:08:46,042 --> 00:08:48,232 was funding the Santa Claus parade. 187 00:08:48,262 --> 00:08:50,092 And so there was a big connection there. 188 00:08:50,092 --> 00:08:52,582 And then when I joined McDonald's and I was talking to them about 189 00:08:52,587 --> 00:08:54,502 this, it was very serendipitous. 190 00:08:54,502 --> 00:08:57,622 Certain things happen in your career, you just end up being in different 191 00:08:57,622 --> 00:09:01,312 places and later you look back and you're like, oh yeah, I volunteered, 192 00:09:01,312 --> 00:09:04,282 or I did that and it actually helped me get to where I am today. 193 00:09:04,312 --> 00:09:06,502 So that's my advice, Louis, to anyone. 194 00:09:07,102 --> 00:09:10,342 Whether you're technical, non-technical, whether you are, you know, in 195 00:09:10,772 --> 00:09:11,842 medicine or a different type of field. 196 00:09:11,842 --> 00:09:14,812 Just putting yourself out there and having experiences and just 197 00:09:14,817 --> 00:09:18,292 living life, trying and learning will, will lead you down a really 198 00:09:18,612 --> 00:09:18,982 Eddie: interesting path. 199 00:09:19,342 --> 00:09:20,182 Absolutely. 200 00:09:20,452 --> 00:09:20,932 That's cool. 201 00:09:20,932 --> 00:09:22,612 So you're at McDonald's, right? 202 00:09:22,617 --> 00:09:22,972 You. 203 00:09:23,482 --> 00:09:26,932 Are starting to get involved in tech stuff, you move to Shopify. 204 00:09:27,082 --> 00:09:31,402 Now, my understanding is Shopify went through a lot of growth 205 00:09:31,462 --> 00:09:32,782 while you were there, right? 206 00:09:33,082 --> 00:09:33,232 Yeah. 207 00:09:33,472 --> 00:09:35,302 What was it like when you started? 208 00:09:35,392 --> 00:09:37,702 What was it like when you left? 209 00:09:38,032 --> 00:09:41,542 What was that, those transitions like and like what was your position? 210 00:09:41,662 --> 00:09:44,032 Does it change over time and stuff? 211 00:09:44,572 --> 00:09:47,962 Rashel: Yeah, so I think I joined Shopify at a really interesting time. 212 00:09:47,962 --> 00:09:48,652 I. 213 00:09:49,107 --> 00:09:52,797 Refer to it as like their awkward teenage stage because the 214 00:09:52,797 --> 00:09:54,537 company was growing really fast. 215 00:09:54,537 --> 00:09:58,857 I think by the time that I left, after two and a half years, 90%, like we had this 216 00:09:58,857 --> 00:10:02,487 on the, on our internal systems, it would show you how many people joined after you. 217 00:10:02,967 --> 00:10:05,817 And so 90% of the company had joined after me. 218 00:10:06,117 --> 00:10:07,797 It had just like exploded. 219 00:10:07,797 --> 00:10:08,727 It was so big. 220 00:10:08,727 --> 00:10:11,817 There were so many different departments, so many like different projects 221 00:10:11,822 --> 00:10:13,167 that were happening at the company. 222 00:10:13,497 --> 00:10:15,747 And so I joined at a really interesting time because I 223 00:10:15,747 --> 00:10:17,577 think they were still trying to. 224 00:10:18,037 --> 00:10:21,817 Identify the role of marketing within Shopify, within such 225 00:10:21,817 --> 00:10:23,467 a product driven company. 226 00:10:23,497 --> 00:10:25,417 How did marketing talk about the product? 227 00:10:25,417 --> 00:10:28,777 How did you get people to be excited about entrepreneurship and wanna join 228 00:10:29,167 --> 00:10:33,727 this movement that, you know, was led by Toby and c e o and so there 229 00:10:33,727 --> 00:10:34,987 was a lot of growth, a lot of change. 230 00:10:35,742 --> 00:10:38,162 and it was interesting for me in particular because I had come 231 00:10:38,162 --> 00:10:41,422 from, you know, about like four and a half years at McDonald's, 232 00:10:41,422 --> 00:10:45,392 which was a very process-driven organization, like to the team. 233 00:10:45,742 --> 00:10:50,192 McDonald's is exceptional at being an organization that knows, like in 234 00:10:50,192 --> 00:10:54,842 fact they have, um, test kitchens in Chicago, their head office, and so. 235 00:10:55,137 --> 00:10:59,337 They can model any McDonald's restaurant across the world like 236 00:10:59,337 --> 00:11:00,537 that is how precise they are. 237 00:11:00,777 --> 00:11:02,187 The timing means to be perfect. 238 00:11:02,577 --> 00:11:06,117 And so coming from that environment where there was like so much rigor and process 239 00:11:06,122 --> 00:11:09,147 and learning how to navigate and work with different departments and basically 240 00:11:09,147 --> 00:11:13,537 just like get shit done to a company like Shopify, which was like process. 241 00:11:13,977 --> 00:11:15,297 We don't like process here. 242 00:11:15,297 --> 00:11:16,347 That's a taboo word. 243 00:11:16,347 --> 00:11:17,127 Like don't talk about. 244 00:11:17,672 --> 00:11:20,922 It was a lot, it was a bit of a learning curve for me because I was so used to 245 00:11:20,922 --> 00:11:25,242 like a certain type of thinking and flow and, and a work and execution. 246 00:11:25,542 --> 00:11:29,052 And so that, that took some time to get used to cuz it was like, wow, literally 247 00:11:29,052 --> 00:11:33,822 everything that I have been groomed to learn to do and to think is now going 248 00:11:33,827 --> 00:11:37,422 out the window and we're just gonna try things and experiment and test. 249 00:11:37,842 --> 00:11:40,692 So I think that was like a really interesting learning curve for me. 250 00:11:41,492 --> 00:11:46,322 I really am grateful for that experience because now what I do in tech, it has 251 00:11:46,322 --> 00:11:50,972 really enabled me to be flexible, to be agile, and to be ready for anything, 252 00:11:50,977 --> 00:11:52,442 especially in the startup world. 253 00:11:52,442 --> 00:11:56,162 Like things are definitely not process driven, they're not organized. 254 00:11:56,162 --> 00:11:59,702 It's oftentimes chaos and you're sort of going in there and helping 255 00:11:59,702 --> 00:12:03,882 these small businesses or you know, very well funded business. 256 00:12:04,482 --> 00:12:08,022 Get shit done, organize things, have a vision, and then bring it to market. 257 00:12:08,022 --> 00:12:12,252 And so that was part of my experience at Shopify is like it just turned everything 258 00:12:12,252 --> 00:12:14,232 upside down in the most incredible 259 00:12:14,232 --> 00:12:14,592 Eddie: way. 260 00:12:14,862 --> 00:12:18,222 It's funny that you kind of tied that into what you're doing today, 261 00:12:18,222 --> 00:12:21,912 because as you were talking about your experiences at Shopify, My mind 262 00:12:21,972 --> 00:12:26,352 kind of started to go there, like you started at McDonald's, which like you 263 00:12:26,352 --> 00:12:28,302 said was very big and process oriented. 264 00:12:28,302 --> 00:12:33,852 And then that transition from there to Shopify was like, okay, now you're going 265 00:12:33,852 --> 00:12:37,542 to a smaller company, but now you even work with startups and stuff, which 266 00:12:37,542 --> 00:12:43,632 is even smaller and earlier stage than Shopify was when you got involved in that. 267 00:12:43,662 --> 00:12:46,542 And so it's like you've been working your way into smaller. 268 00:12:47,552 --> 00:12:49,172 More chaotic environments. 269 00:12:49,802 --> 00:12:50,102 . Rashel: Yeah. 270 00:12:50,102 --> 00:12:53,042 I mean, yeah, I guess like there's something wrong with me. 271 00:12:55,112 --> 00:12:55,712 . for chaos. 272 00:12:56,162 --> 00:12:57,302 But yeah, absolutely. 273 00:12:57,302 --> 00:13:00,212 I think, I mean, and the interesting thing too is, so I was uh, working for 274 00:13:00,217 --> 00:13:03,692 McDonald's Canada, and so McDonald's Canada, I think at the time was only 500 275 00:13:03,962 --> 00:13:06,182 people at the organization in Canada. 276 00:13:06,187 --> 00:13:10,337 So going from that, And then even seeing Shopify in its growth stage where it 277 00:13:10,337 --> 00:13:14,447 completely scaled so quickly, it was interesting to have the comparison. 278 00:13:14,447 --> 00:13:17,777 And even before that, when I was in the finance space, it 279 00:13:17,777 --> 00:13:18,812 was a different world as well. 280 00:13:19,157 --> 00:13:22,067 Like interestingly enough, I worked for I N G Direct now Tan 281 00:13:22,097 --> 00:13:25,817 Tangerine Bank, and they also were like not a big fan of process. 282 00:13:25,817 --> 00:13:27,257 They were sort of the anti-bank. 283 00:13:27,257 --> 00:13:29,147 They worked very much like in an agency type. 284 00:13:30,022 --> 00:13:33,652 And so, you know, when I look back in, in these different experiences I have, 285 00:13:33,682 --> 00:13:37,072 there's so much learnings that I have from each one of these environments 286 00:13:37,072 --> 00:13:38,302 and businesses and how they work. 287 00:13:38,662 --> 00:13:43,432 And you're absolutely right, like having this journey has prepared me now because I 288 00:13:43,432 --> 00:13:45,802 am flexible, but I'm still process driven. 289 00:13:46,042 --> 00:13:50,362 I like working in chaos, but I'm also very organized . So I think 290 00:13:50,362 --> 00:13:53,182 that's kind of like the benefit that I bring to the table as I'm working 291 00:13:53,182 --> 00:13:54,742 with these founders and these teams. 292 00:13:55,767 --> 00:13:56,787 Honestly, nothing faces me. 293 00:13:56,877 --> 00:13:59,277 So as a marketer, I'm, I'm not shocked. 294 00:13:59,277 --> 00:14:03,537 I'm always ready to pivot, and I think these are just great life skills. 295 00:14:03,537 --> 00:14:06,987 Aside from career skills, life skills, like you need to be prepared for anything. 296 00:14:06,987 --> 00:14:08,047 You need to be flexible. 297 00:14:08,052 --> 00:14:09,057 Have a good attitude. 298 00:14:09,447 --> 00:14:13,557 Be strategic and then plan, like plan ahead, but also be ready to change 299 00:14:13,557 --> 00:14:14,397 Eddie: your plans and pivot. 300 00:14:14,607 --> 00:14:20,007 I think that's definitely something to be found there for like everyone, right? 301 00:14:20,012 --> 00:14:23,337 And their career is that when you're looking at what's the next company 302 00:14:23,342 --> 00:14:25,887 you wanna be involved in, what's the next job opportunity you want? 303 00:14:26,262 --> 00:14:29,022 Sometimes it's looking and saying, have I done a lot of the same 304 00:14:29,022 --> 00:14:30,912 thing, the same size company? 305 00:14:30,912 --> 00:14:32,052 The same industry? 306 00:14:32,052 --> 00:14:34,812 Like, can you kind of flip that around? 307 00:14:34,842 --> 00:14:37,992 Because I actually have been, my journey has been similar to 308 00:14:37,992 --> 00:14:42,192 yours in that it's all different types of company, different sizes. 309 00:14:42,192 --> 00:14:45,282 Like every job change has put me into a very different environment. 310 00:14:45,282 --> 00:14:47,472 I've done literally, like I've. 311 00:14:48,242 --> 00:14:51,482 Like two person co-founder of a company that never got off the ground. 312 00:14:51,482 --> 00:14:55,832 I've been in government contracting, I've done design agency work. 313 00:14:55,862 --> 00:15:01,172 I've done smallish, okay startups, and now I'm at Glassdoor, which does 314 00:15:01,172 --> 00:15:02,972 obviously a larger tech company. 315 00:15:03,482 --> 00:15:06,662 And it's like all of those different environments to your point, 316 00:15:06,662 --> 00:15:08,212 teaches you something different. 317 00:15:08,217 --> 00:15:09,392 And if you've been. 318 00:15:09,912 --> 00:15:13,212 In the same industry or the same type of company for a while, like 319 00:15:13,542 --> 00:15:17,952 go with a bigger or smaller company, go in a different industry, um, 320 00:15:17,952 --> 00:15:19,812 find a, some way to change it up. 321 00:15:20,112 --> 00:15:20,382 Yeah, 322 00:15:20,442 --> 00:15:21,162 Rashel: I absolutely agree. 323 00:15:21,162 --> 00:15:26,382 I think like one piece of advice, I often, um, speak at different universities 324 00:15:26,382 --> 00:15:30,252 and I talk to like the marketing students, and one piece of advice I 325 00:15:30,252 --> 00:15:33,822 always give them is when you're looking for jobs in the future and trying to 326 00:15:33,822 --> 00:15:35,322 build your career, don't just look. 327 00:15:35,947 --> 00:15:37,297 The role that you want. 328 00:15:37,297 --> 00:15:39,127 Because the role can always change, right? 329 00:15:39,127 --> 00:15:42,967 Like you can go into a certain job and make it your own and 330 00:15:42,967 --> 00:15:44,587 change it and grow and develop. 331 00:15:44,917 --> 00:15:48,877 Look at the company and why you wanna work for that company. 332 00:15:48,877 --> 00:15:49,867 Is it their product? 333 00:15:49,867 --> 00:15:51,157 Is it the way they run the company? 334 00:15:51,157 --> 00:15:54,127 Are you interested in that particular industry? 335 00:15:54,397 --> 00:15:57,457 And I think that's like, that's kind of been my motto of why I've 336 00:15:57,457 --> 00:15:58,977 jumped to these different companies. 337 00:15:59,397 --> 00:16:01,917 I wanted to learn what happens in baking. 338 00:16:01,917 --> 00:16:02,967 I wanted to learn the processes. 339 00:16:02,967 --> 00:16:05,277 I wanted to learn how they, they run successfully. 340 00:16:05,277 --> 00:16:06,087 How do they make money? 341 00:16:06,087 --> 00:16:09,837 Like obviously , but also like with McDonald's going there, or when I was in 342 00:16:09,837 --> 00:16:14,097 the nonprofit space, I was just interested in learning about these different things. 343 00:16:14,097 --> 00:16:17,967 And I think like when you approach your life and your career 344 00:16:17,972 --> 00:16:19,537 through a lens of wanting to. 345 00:16:20,197 --> 00:16:22,987 And not, you know, going in there thinking I know everything, but you're 346 00:16:22,987 --> 00:16:25,207 like, no, I'm actually here cuz this is great and I wanna know what you 347 00:16:25,207 --> 00:16:26,587 guys are doing and how I can help. 348 00:16:26,947 --> 00:16:29,317 You'll be happier in your jobs as well. 349 00:16:29,527 --> 00:16:33,097 And I think that's also why in my career I've had, like most of the 350 00:16:33,097 --> 00:16:35,977 companies that I've worked at, I've stayed for like four years. 351 00:16:36,312 --> 00:16:38,652 Is because there was always something to do. 352 00:16:38,652 --> 00:16:41,142 There was always more to learn and there was always more that I could 353 00:16:41,142 --> 00:16:43,812 contribute and then it would get to a space where I was like, okay, 354 00:16:43,812 --> 00:16:44,772 I think I've done enough here. 355 00:16:44,772 --> 00:16:47,532 Like I need to go and explore something else and move on. 356 00:16:47,892 --> 00:16:49,152 Uh, so that's always been my advice. 357 00:16:49,152 --> 00:16:52,422 So I a hundred percent agree is put yourself out there in situations where 358 00:16:52,427 --> 00:16:56,172 you can learn and go to companies where you're interested in, in the 359 00:16:56,172 --> 00:16:57,612 leadership vision and what they're 360 00:16:57,612 --> 00:16:58,692 Eddie: trying to accomplish. 361 00:16:59,032 --> 00:16:59,542 I love that. 362 00:16:59,542 --> 00:17:00,262 That's awesome. 363 00:17:00,472 --> 00:17:05,632 So the experiences you've had have all been very different, but the through line 364 00:17:05,632 --> 00:17:07,372 is you've stayed in marketing, right? 365 00:17:07,372 --> 00:17:10,372 You knew at a young age you wanted to get into marketing. 366 00:17:10,492 --> 00:17:12,262 You've stuck with it this long. 367 00:17:12,442 --> 00:17:12,742 Right. 368 00:17:12,742 --> 00:17:17,092 What is it about marketing that kind of keeps you excited, that keeps you 369 00:17:17,152 --> 00:17:19,042 in the game and passionate about it? 370 00:17:19,282 --> 00:17:19,462 Well, 371 00:17:19,702 --> 00:17:19,823 Rashel: I think. 372 00:17:20,507 --> 00:17:25,937 Fundamentally marketing is connecting people and brands and businesses. 373 00:17:26,117 --> 00:17:30,197 And so when you think about it from that lens, anything that you 374 00:17:30,197 --> 00:17:34,367 do in marketing is just a creative element that's added to it. 375 00:17:34,517 --> 00:17:37,217 And so I think it's never the same. 376 00:17:37,217 --> 00:17:40,337 Even as I work with different startups, there is no template. 377 00:17:40,337 --> 00:17:41,597 You know, I don't take a template and. 378 00:17:42,347 --> 00:17:43,517 Here's how I'm gonna do it for you. 379 00:17:43,517 --> 00:17:44,597 Here's how I'm gonna do it for you. 380 00:17:44,657 --> 00:17:46,877 Here's like, it's different for everyone. 381 00:17:46,877 --> 00:17:49,607 And I think that's what keeps marketing interesting for me. 382 00:17:49,607 --> 00:17:51,947 Just the type of person I am is, I like change. 383 00:17:51,947 --> 00:17:53,147 I like interesting projects. 384 00:17:53,152 --> 00:17:54,287 I like challenges. 385 00:17:54,707 --> 00:17:55,607 So marketing. 386 00:17:55,607 --> 00:17:58,037 And there's so much change in marketing as well. 387 00:17:58,367 --> 00:17:59,807 That's what keeps me going. 388 00:17:59,807 --> 00:18:04,152 So for example, You know, years ago everyone was like, oh, don't 389 00:18:04,152 --> 00:18:05,622 use s m s marketing, right? 390 00:18:05,652 --> 00:18:09,192 Nobody wants to hear from you on s m s email, no, social media is a thing. 391 00:18:09,612 --> 00:18:10,542 Gotta go to social media. 392 00:18:10,547 --> 00:18:14,352 Then at one point it was like, well, you don't own those user relationships with 393 00:18:14,352 --> 00:18:16,512 social media, so email is the way to go. 394 00:18:16,542 --> 00:18:18,342 Everyone needs to be focused on email. 395 00:18:18,732 --> 00:18:22,122 And then more recently now, like we're seeing really low click, like 396 00:18:22,122 --> 00:18:24,222 click rates and open rates of emails. 397 00:18:24,222 --> 00:18:27,462 And so it's like, go back to sfs, SMS is like the sexy thing. 398 00:18:27,732 --> 00:18:29,322 And so it's always evolving and you're. 399 00:18:29,737 --> 00:18:34,687 Keep on top of the trends, and when I say the trends, it's really just understanding 400 00:18:34,687 --> 00:18:36,307 human behavior at the time, right? 401 00:18:36,307 --> 00:18:39,097 Like the, the common thread through all of this is the people. 402 00:18:39,097 --> 00:18:41,437 At one point everyone was obsessed with social media. 403 00:18:41,707 --> 00:18:44,917 Then it was all about like your emails, subscriptions, and what emails 404 00:18:44,922 --> 00:18:46,387 you get in your inbox every day. 405 00:18:46,387 --> 00:18:48,737 And now it's like, I'm sick of all of these things. 406 00:18:49,357 --> 00:18:52,657 If you just text me about your product and you just text me to 407 00:18:52,657 --> 00:18:54,297 make sure that my service is good. 408 00:18:54,697 --> 00:18:56,227 That's how I prefer to hear from you. 409 00:18:56,647 --> 00:19:00,667 And so I think that's another reason why I'm still very interested in marketing. 410 00:19:00,667 --> 00:19:05,077 And I think once you understand marketing how society works and you 411 00:19:05,082 --> 00:19:09,727 can analyze and critique that, it helps you really in anything you do. 412 00:19:09,727 --> 00:19:14,017 Like if you start a business, if you shift to another type of function, you can 413 00:19:14,267 --> 00:19:16,657 still use these insights to support you. 414 00:19:16,687 --> 00:19:19,507 And so for me it's, it's just like it's ever-evolving. 415 00:19:20,027 --> 00:19:23,537 You're always trying to keep up with what people want and how 416 00:19:23,537 --> 00:19:24,467 they want you to communicate 417 00:19:24,467 --> 00:19:24,857 Eddie: with them. 418 00:19:25,067 --> 00:19:29,417 I feel like a lot of people in the tech space, right, aren't as involved. 419 00:19:29,422 --> 00:19:29,507 Mm-hmm. 420 00:19:29,777 --> 00:19:32,387 with marketing, and so I feel like a lot of times there can be this 421 00:19:32,387 --> 00:19:36,317 perception that like, oh yeah, like marketing is, I don't know, either 422 00:19:36,317 --> 00:19:40,877 this cookie cutter formula or it's just about like throwing ads out there. 423 00:19:40,877 --> 00:19:41,117 Right. 424 00:19:41,117 --> 00:19:43,517 Like a, I think a lot of tech people are like, oh yeah, the 425 00:19:43,517 --> 00:19:45,377 marketing people handle the ads. 426 00:19:45,527 --> 00:19:46,007 Right. 427 00:19:46,457 --> 00:19:47,597 So I love that. 428 00:19:47,627 --> 00:19:51,347 Where really, in essence, it's the same thing that we do on the product 429 00:19:51,347 --> 00:19:55,337 side, where it's like, okay, we need to understand our users, what they need. 430 00:19:55,667 --> 00:19:59,507 From the marketing side, you're understanding our potential users, right? 431 00:19:59,507 --> 00:20:03,067 The people we haven't gotten to yet and saying, Where are they? 432 00:20:03,157 --> 00:20:06,757 How are they communicating and how do they want to hear from us or 433 00:20:06,757 --> 00:20:10,957 even like the trial users, and how do we get them to come back and 434 00:20:10,957 --> 00:20:13,057 actually use us more and stuff? 435 00:20:13,057 --> 00:20:13,957 So I love that. 436 00:20:13,957 --> 00:20:17,857 Really at the core essence, it's all about understanding people and how 437 00:20:17,857 --> 00:20:21,307 to connect with people, and it's just are you connecting with them when 438 00:20:21,537 --> 00:20:25,027 they're not in the product experience or are you connecting with them when 439 00:20:25,027 --> 00:20:26,707 they're in the product experience? 440 00:20:26,707 --> 00:20:28,477 And it's just, that's the only D major. 441 00:20:29,277 --> 00:20:29,547 Yeah, 442 00:20:29,547 --> 00:20:30,117 Rashel: absolutely. 443 00:20:30,117 --> 00:20:33,297 And I part of like marketing as well, or maybe it's, you know what, it might 444 00:20:33,297 --> 00:20:37,797 just be my view on marketing because I see myself as very much a, a generalist. 445 00:20:37,797 --> 00:20:41,637 I'm not like just focused on email or just focused on this part of brand 446 00:20:41,642 --> 00:20:46,557 or I very much like, and I think this is where I determined I wanted 447 00:20:46,557 --> 00:20:48,177 to work with startups is because. 448 00:20:48,612 --> 00:20:51,612 I'm the type of person who's interested about what's happening in different 449 00:20:51,612 --> 00:20:54,852 areas of the business and then how marketing flows and supports 450 00:20:54,852 --> 00:20:56,052 all those different functions. 451 00:20:56,442 --> 00:21:00,372 So for example, even if you're looking at your user onboarding journey, 452 00:21:00,672 --> 00:21:01,932 what, what are the different steps? 453 00:21:01,932 --> 00:21:03,852 How are they going through the trial? 454 00:21:04,002 --> 00:21:05,262 What are, where are the misses? 455 00:21:05,262 --> 00:21:07,302 How are you emailing and communicating to them? 456 00:21:07,302 --> 00:21:08,622 Where are are your blind spots? 457 00:21:08,622 --> 00:21:12,372 But then also like how's your C s M team and your BDR team 458 00:21:12,702 --> 00:21:13,812 working with these people? 459 00:21:14,022 --> 00:21:18,852 It's really like at the end of the day, It comes down to the core of how you use 460 00:21:18,882 --> 00:21:24,612 your expertise or your hard skills or your soft skills to make customers feel good. 461 00:21:24,732 --> 00:21:28,512 And also like you, you definitely as marketing need to be partnered with your 462 00:21:28,512 --> 00:21:32,322 product team a hundred percent cuz you need to funnel those insights and have 463 00:21:32,322 --> 00:21:34,362 that feedback and that loop with them. 464 00:21:34,842 --> 00:21:37,152 So I think there's, there's a lot of different interesting face. 465 00:21:37,812 --> 00:21:41,652 To marketing in different ways that marketing supports businesses, that 466 00:21:41,652 --> 00:21:44,022 sometimes they, they're invisible, right? 467 00:21:44,052 --> 00:21:46,572 Like cuz you don't have a deck on a certain thing that's 468 00:21:46,577 --> 00:21:48,162 happening or you haven't executed. 469 00:21:48,162 --> 00:21:52,512 So it's more than just the ads, it's more of like the insights, the changes, and the 470 00:21:52,512 --> 00:21:56,802 interactions that marketing is creating that not everybody sees or, or recognizes. 471 00:21:57,132 --> 00:21:59,982 Eddie: You know, I guess you've been on this journey where you were, you know, 472 00:21:59,982 --> 00:22:04,242 in banking and McDonald's, and you know, McDonald's, you were doing tech stuff. 473 00:22:04,242 --> 00:22:06,582 You've kind of shifted more into the tech realm. 474 00:22:06,587 --> 00:22:13,692 Right now, your position right, is you're offering services and consulting and you 475 00:22:13,752 --> 00:22:18,392 will come on board certain startups as like a part-time chief marketing officer. 476 00:22:19,227 --> 00:22:23,992 . And from my understanding, you primarily gauge with tech startups. 477 00:22:24,172 --> 00:22:27,472 Is there, you know, a specific reason you've kind of stayed in the tech space 478 00:22:27,472 --> 00:22:31,882 now that you've kind of entered this that has kind of called you or that you 479 00:22:31,882 --> 00:22:33,712 like working with in any particular way? 480 00:22:33,892 --> 00:22:37,012 Rashel: I think it's just kind of how I've navigated this journey. 481 00:22:37,012 --> 00:22:38,392 I, I ended up in the tech space. 482 00:22:38,392 --> 00:22:41,462 I also really love the developments and the. 483 00:22:41,922 --> 00:22:44,172 At which tech companies work, right? 484 00:22:44,172 --> 00:22:48,042 Like the, the ability to make such frequent updates to the product, to 485 00:22:48,042 --> 00:22:53,202 listen to customer feedback in one day, and then have a deployment like two 486 00:22:53,202 --> 00:22:57,072 days later with those updated features and, and insights that you've gathered. 487 00:22:57,072 --> 00:23:01,602 So I love that experience and so that's why I think tech is, is 488 00:23:01,602 --> 00:23:03,102 the, the space that I've stayed in. 489 00:23:03,102 --> 00:23:05,772 Although I have worked with DDC brands and brands outside of. 490 00:23:06,492 --> 00:23:10,842 It is an area that I, I also found oftentimes when tech companies are 491 00:23:10,842 --> 00:23:14,922 getting started, their funds are limited and sometimes, to be completely honest, 492 00:23:15,192 --> 00:23:16,992 they don't need a full-time marketer. 493 00:23:16,992 --> 00:23:19,182 They don't need a 10 person marketer team. 494 00:23:19,422 --> 00:23:23,622 So what they often need is someone to come in and oversee what's happening 495 00:23:23,622 --> 00:23:27,342 in marketing, to help create a vision for their marketing, to make sure that 496 00:23:27,342 --> 00:23:29,082 things are set up and working well. 497 00:23:29,427 --> 00:23:33,417 To be an ear or like to, to feed the ear of the founders with like, 498 00:23:33,417 --> 00:23:34,347 Hey, here's what we're seeing. 499 00:23:34,407 --> 00:23:37,647 The customers are saying, here's a few other, you know, options 500 00:23:37,647 --> 00:23:39,057 of how to connect with them. 501 00:23:39,057 --> 00:23:41,277 Here's some feedback on your product, et cetera. 502 00:23:41,637 --> 00:23:46,257 In those early days, you don't need to hire a marketing C M O salary. 503 00:23:46,257 --> 00:23:50,337 You can hire someone that maybe you only need one day a week, and they're 504 00:23:50,337 --> 00:23:53,487 gonna help you move things forward so that you, as the founders can just 505 00:23:53,787 --> 00:23:58,257 focus on your mission of developing the product or getting it into market 506 00:23:58,257 --> 00:23:59,997 or completely disrupting an industry. 507 00:24:00,002 --> 00:24:00,617 Eddie: Awesome. 508 00:24:00,867 --> 00:24:02,857 No, that's, that's really interesting. 509 00:24:02,862 --> 00:24:05,427 Do you, do you find that a lot of. 510 00:24:05,832 --> 00:24:08,562 Founders are looking for marketing people. 511 00:24:08,772 --> 00:24:13,542 Are you having to kind of sell them on the role of marketing in early startups? 512 00:24:13,542 --> 00:24:14,682 How does that kind of feel? 513 00:24:14,687 --> 00:24:15,352 How's that going? 514 00:24:16,317 --> 00:24:16,887 Yeah, I think 515 00:24:16,887 --> 00:24:20,727 Rashel: it's going really well for me, , so no complaints there. 516 00:24:21,057 --> 00:24:24,387 Um, but I think it's, it's because oftentimes, you know, when you look at 517 00:24:24,392 --> 00:24:27,837 the founder profiles, sometimes you'll have like two technical founders that 518 00:24:27,837 --> 00:24:32,127 come together, or you'll have one founder that's technical, one that's really on 519 00:24:32,127 --> 00:24:34,167 the user experience, potentially brand. 520 00:24:34,497 --> 00:24:37,668 And so oftentimes what they realize they miss is, Hey, we're really good 521 00:24:37,673 --> 00:24:39,657 at like engineering and building the. 522 00:24:40,602 --> 00:24:43,202 We're really good at making sure the experience is good in making these 523 00:24:43,202 --> 00:24:48,212 updates, but what we don't have is someone to translate our product into the market. 524 00:24:48,362 --> 00:24:51,842 And we don't know necessarily, like we know why our product is great 525 00:24:51,842 --> 00:24:55,232 and why it's needed, but how do we get that message into the masses 526 00:24:55,237 --> 00:24:56,522 and get more people interested? 527 00:24:56,882 --> 00:25:01,242 And so with that, in that case, that's where a fractional CMO or a fractional 528 00:25:01,247 --> 00:25:02,602 head of marketing or whatever you wanna. 529 00:25:03,177 --> 00:25:08,577 Is great to bring in because they can help eliminate some of these additional 530 00:25:08,577 --> 00:25:11,637 thoughts that founders have that they can't necessarily put to pen, to 531 00:25:11,637 --> 00:25:14,667 paper and figure out, you know, like I know what I, they, it's usually 532 00:25:14,667 --> 00:25:17,097 like, I know my starting point and I know where I wanna get to, but I'm 533 00:25:17,097 --> 00:25:18,987 just not sure how to go from A to B. 534 00:25:19,257 --> 00:25:21,597 And so that's where you can bring in like a fractional role. 535 00:25:21,597 --> 00:25:23,007 Say, all right, let me work with you. 536 00:25:23,007 --> 00:25:25,827 Let me get, gather some customer insights, competitive insights. 537 00:25:26,037 --> 00:25:28,557 Let's figure out what the right marketing strategy is for you 538 00:25:28,557 --> 00:25:30,057 and how to bring this to market. 539 00:25:30,192 --> 00:25:32,652 Or if it is to market, then, all right, let's make sure we 540 00:25:32,652 --> 00:25:33,852 know what the evolution is. 541 00:25:33,852 --> 00:25:37,182 Let's make sure all your systems are set up in like those processes 542 00:25:37,182 --> 00:25:38,262 that people hate so much. 543 00:25:38,592 --> 00:25:40,092 How do we feed that back into 544 00:25:40,092 --> 00:25:40,692 Eddie: the company? 545 00:25:40,872 --> 00:25:41,562 That's great, right? 546 00:25:41,562 --> 00:25:45,272 You come into a place where they don't necessarily have a lot of clarity. 547 00:25:45,727 --> 00:25:49,777 You help provide clarity and then you create some processes to leave behind. 548 00:25:49,867 --> 00:25:54,337 So you're kind of like, you just dive into chaos and then you like build 549 00:25:54,342 --> 00:25:56,797 processes and, and leave processes behind. 550 00:25:56,797 --> 00:25:57,277 That's awesome. 551 00:25:57,877 --> 00:25:58,207 , yeah. 552 00:25:58,267 --> 00:26:02,587 Rashel: Dive into the chaos, accept the chaos, and then help them. 553 00:26:02,647 --> 00:26:04,837 But the, and another thing too that I find, and this is just 554 00:26:04,837 --> 00:26:06,277 anecdotal from my experience. 555 00:26:07,107 --> 00:26:08,727 No one has got it figured out. 556 00:26:08,757 --> 00:26:09,087 Right? 557 00:26:09,087 --> 00:26:12,837 Like even, and I think that's where, you know, like there's a, a coaching 558 00:26:12,842 --> 00:26:15,837 element to what I do as well and talking to these founders is there's 559 00:26:15,837 --> 00:26:19,137 so much pressure as entrepreneurs and founders that they put on themselves 560 00:26:19,142 --> 00:26:23,007 of wanting to be so excellent with what they're doing and wanting to 561 00:26:23,012 --> 00:26:24,717 bring a really great product to market. 562 00:26:25,017 --> 00:26:28,107 And oftentimes there's a lot of the stress that they carry. 563 00:26:28,107 --> 00:26:30,867 And it's nice to have someone come in and say, Hey, you know, I've 564 00:26:30,867 --> 00:26:32,397 worked with like four other C. 565 00:26:32,952 --> 00:26:35,202 You guys are doing great actually. 566 00:26:35,232 --> 00:26:38,592 You know, like you may be really hard on yourselves and hard on your team. 567 00:26:39,207 --> 00:26:42,477 You're doing exceptionally well or you know, like what you're facing. 568 00:26:42,477 --> 00:26:45,837 So are other companies, but maybe people just don't talk about it openly. 569 00:26:46,107 --> 00:26:49,287 It's behind, you know, like these gates and, and not everybody is, 570 00:26:49,292 --> 00:26:51,417 is sharing some of the struggles that they're going through. 571 00:26:51,417 --> 00:26:54,477 And so I think that's also the benefit of hiring someone and bringing 572 00:26:54,477 --> 00:26:56,037 someone on a fractional basis is. 573 00:26:56,437 --> 00:27:01,867 There's an ear to what's happening in the industry and it helps to reposition 574 00:27:01,867 --> 00:27:05,107 and, and, and help you figure out, you know, is our business doing well? 575 00:27:05,107 --> 00:27:06,037 Do we need to pivot? 576 00:27:06,037 --> 00:27:06,997 Are we doing great? 577 00:27:07,147 --> 00:27:08,767 Are we doing as bad as we think we are? 578 00:27:09,607 --> 00:27:11,617 and how do we evolve with the industry? 579 00:27:11,622 --> 00:27:14,257 Cuz especially right now in tech, there's so many changes happening, 580 00:27:14,257 --> 00:27:19,057 there's so many layoffs going on, and so how do you help these founders 581 00:27:19,062 --> 00:27:20,347 who are so focused on their own. 582 00:27:21,077 --> 00:27:24,857 To, you know, like open up and see what's happening around them sometimes 583 00:27:24,857 --> 00:27:27,167 and grow within, you know, a recession 584 00:27:27,167 --> 00:27:27,707 Eddie: environment. 585 00:27:28,007 --> 00:27:28,637 I love that. 586 00:27:28,637 --> 00:27:31,337 Definitely that changes things up, right? 587 00:27:31,337 --> 00:27:34,487 Having an A feel for what's going on in the rest of the industry. 588 00:27:34,487 --> 00:27:38,057 Because companies and startups can be very insular because you just have a 589 00:27:38,057 --> 00:27:41,927 bunch of people who are there working on that problem, looking at that one thing. 590 00:27:41,927 --> 00:27:45,797 So, you know, one of the things we like to do in this podcast is kind 591 00:27:45,797 --> 00:27:47,207 of just talk about what brings us. 592 00:27:47,917 --> 00:27:50,587 So I just had a question on like what's something that brings you. 593 00:27:51,372 --> 00:27:53,382 Rashel: I've been actually thinking a lot about this question, 594 00:27:53,382 --> 00:27:54,372 and I love that you asked. 595 00:27:54,372 --> 00:27:54,642 This. 596 00:27:55,152 --> 00:27:57,912 One thing I've realized brings me a lot of joy outside of, you know, like 597 00:27:58,002 --> 00:28:04,062 travel and my dog and things like that, is just doing more service, being of 598 00:28:04,062 --> 00:28:05,502 service to people, helping people. 599 00:28:05,502 --> 00:28:06,002 There's nothing. 600 00:28:06,722 --> 00:28:09,662 That will, if you're having like the worst day, the shittiest day, 601 00:28:09,662 --> 00:28:12,002 I don't know if I'm allowed to say these things on your podcast 602 00:28:12,562 --> 00:28:13,042 . Eddie: That's fine. 603 00:28:13,682 --> 00:28:16,712 , Rashel: if you can be of service to someone else and help someone else 604 00:28:16,712 --> 00:28:19,742 in, in need, even like, just like the smallest thing, whether it's meeting 605 00:28:19,742 --> 00:28:23,522 someone for a coffee, who is graduating from university and completely lost 606 00:28:23,522 --> 00:28:26,672 on the direction they should take, or whether it's donating clothes or 607 00:28:26,672 --> 00:28:29,072 actually like donating your time. 608 00:28:29,072 --> 00:28:32,642 I find that that creates the biggest joy for me outside. 609 00:28:33,527 --> 00:28:37,617 , you know, the regular day-to-day things that I do, and like having a matcha latte, 610 00:28:37,617 --> 00:28:39,297 spending time with my dog and husband. 611 00:28:39,657 --> 00:28:42,927 And that's one thing that I, I try to share a lot with my friends as 612 00:28:42,927 --> 00:28:47,037 well, is like, let's keep each other accountable to being more helpful 613 00:28:47,097 --> 00:28:48,687 and of service to other people. 614 00:28:49,047 --> 00:28:52,527 It doesn't cost you anything to be helpful or kind, right? 615 00:28:52,877 --> 00:28:55,197 It's, it's free and it makes you feel amazing. 616 00:28:55,287 --> 00:28:56,757 So that's what brings me. 617 00:28:57,627 --> 00:28:58,467 Eddie: Yeah, I love that. 618 00:28:58,467 --> 00:28:58,887 Right? 619 00:28:59,097 --> 00:29:01,707 Different ways people can be of service. 620 00:29:01,707 --> 00:29:05,667 It's like, okay, you know, like, are you donating your time in some way? 621 00:29:05,757 --> 00:29:10,467 I know a lot of people, um, in like the tech Twitter and design Twitter 622 00:29:10,467 --> 00:29:14,697 space, like they try to post what they've learned on social media. 623 00:29:15,292 --> 00:29:19,012 Like for free so that other people can like learn it as well. 624 00:29:19,012 --> 00:29:23,152 And maybe you work for a company that does good work in that way, you kind 625 00:29:23,152 --> 00:29:26,572 of almost double dip where it's like, okay, you are getting paid, but you're 626 00:29:26,572 --> 00:29:28,702 also having like an impact on the world. 627 00:29:28,707 --> 00:29:29,692 So, perfect. 628 00:29:29,752 --> 00:29:33,352 No, I, I love that idea of being, of service and just kind of reflecting 629 00:29:33,352 --> 00:29:36,982 and looking and saying, how have I been able to be of service Right to the. 630 00:29:37,752 --> 00:29:42,552 Around me, family or in community, or to the greater 631 00:29:42,552 --> 00:29:44,382 world and the environment, right. 632 00:29:44,382 --> 00:29:47,292 And all kind of from the small scale all the way up to the big scale. 633 00:29:47,292 --> 00:29:47,922 I, I love that. 634 00:29:48,042 --> 00:29:48,732 Rashel: Yeah, for sure. 635 00:29:48,732 --> 00:29:51,612 I mean, it's, it's interesting that we were just talking like two minutes ago 636 00:29:51,612 --> 00:29:56,262 about companies being really insular and, and founders focusing on certain 637 00:29:56,267 --> 00:29:59,322 things, and it's kind of like we do that with ourselves as individuals, right? 638 00:29:59,322 --> 00:30:01,152 Like we can be so insular and so focused. 639 00:30:01,737 --> 00:30:05,877 Success and goals and things that we need to achieve that you often forget to like 640 00:30:05,877 --> 00:30:08,907 pause for a second and be like, what am I actually doing to help other people? 641 00:30:08,997 --> 00:30:11,937 What have I done this week that's been helpful to anyone other than myself? 642 00:30:12,297 --> 00:30:16,407 So I, I like to have that reminder of like, what, what am I leaving behind? 643 00:30:16,407 --> 00:30:17,037 Eddie: What's my mark? 644 00:30:17,307 --> 00:30:19,847 Well, and kind of swinging that back around to. 645 00:30:20,592 --> 00:30:21,552 The tech industry. 646 00:30:21,552 --> 00:30:25,902 I think sometimes we can become insular in our little silos of 647 00:30:26,312 --> 00:30:30,402 engineering and product and marketing and like, that's kind of every time 648 00:30:30,402 --> 00:30:32,352 I invite guests onto the podcast. 649 00:30:32,352 --> 00:30:34,872 A lot of times, like one of the first questions they ask is like, 650 00:30:34,932 --> 00:30:36,552 oh, how'd you have this idea? 651 00:30:36,552 --> 00:30:38,322 Like, why did you wanna do this podcast? 652 00:30:38,352 --> 00:30:41,562 And I don't always have a really good answer for that other than like, 653 00:30:41,562 --> 00:30:45,372 Hey, I, I realized there was a lot of negativity and I wanted to spread joy. 654 00:30:45,552 --> 00:30:51,102 But I think the other interesting thing that I kind of just realized, I'm trying 655 00:30:51,102 --> 00:30:55,782 to help everyone in tech break out of the bubble that they are in, right? 656 00:30:55,782 --> 00:30:58,692 If you're an engineer and you don't know anything about what the designers 657 00:30:58,692 --> 00:31:03,642 do or think, or product managers or marketers, we're all in this 658 00:31:03,642 --> 00:31:07,272 together, and by breaking down our silos and having a place where we can 659 00:31:07,362 --> 00:31:11,682 all come together and have similar conversations, like helps us understand 660 00:31:11,682 --> 00:31:17,262 where each other's at, and removes that insular of what we have individual. 661 00:31:17,902 --> 00:31:22,312 What we have in our little silo, what we have in our company, like this, insular, 662 00:31:22,312 --> 00:31:27,202 this starts from the individual and then it like slowly spreads outward, but it's 663 00:31:27,202 --> 00:31:31,402 always about where we are at and what we are doing, and understanding people, 664 00:31:31,402 --> 00:31:36,712 whether it's in a different department or in a different culture, like all 665 00:31:36,742 --> 00:31:42,022 those different types of things can help us have a more broad view of the world. 666 00:31:42,202 --> 00:31:42,562 I don't know. 667 00:31:42,562 --> 00:31:43,312 I I love that. 668 00:31:43,312 --> 00:31:43,792 That's great. 669 00:31:44,272 --> 00:31:44,722 Yeah, no, 670 00:31:44,722 --> 00:31:46,222 Rashel: I, I completely agree with you. 671 00:31:47,172 --> 00:31:50,652 It's at the end of the day, like we're all just people on this planet that's 672 00:31:50,652 --> 00:31:54,612 like floating into space , and we're just trying to figure things out. 673 00:31:54,612 --> 00:31:58,362 And so e exactly like what you're saying, like if you're in engineering 674 00:31:58,367 --> 00:32:03,582 or a different function, meet with other people outside of your department and 675 00:32:03,587 --> 00:32:07,242 the area of work, because we all speak a different language, like if you're 676 00:32:07,247 --> 00:32:10,422 talking to accountants or the finance folks at the company versus the marketers, 677 00:32:10,422 --> 00:32:12,252 versus the engineers versus the product. 678 00:32:12,847 --> 00:32:14,197 We're all focused on different things. 679 00:32:14,197 --> 00:32:18,937 We speak a different language, and so the more you can bridge those gaps and 680 00:32:18,937 --> 00:32:22,747 talk to different people, the better understanding you have of number one, 681 00:32:22,747 --> 00:32:25,267 what else is happening at the company and what people are working on. 682 00:32:25,537 --> 00:32:29,527 You also hear a lot of feedback, like you may hear feedback from certain, 683 00:32:29,532 --> 00:32:33,277 even like your accounting team or your finance team on the product or 684 00:32:33,277 --> 00:32:37,147 things that they've heard, but because they're so focused on their area, they 685 00:32:37,147 --> 00:32:40,297 don't think that their feedback is of value potentially, and so they don't. 686 00:32:41,127 --> 00:32:44,007 but there's a lot of interesting nuggets that you can uncover just 687 00:32:44,007 --> 00:32:45,657 by having conversations with people. 688 00:32:45,717 --> 00:32:49,647 And so I know we're in a remote world, so I always say like even 689 00:32:49,652 --> 00:32:53,937 just having chats like this virtually and just picking someone at random 690 00:32:53,942 --> 00:32:56,337 at your company that you're like, Hey, I've never talked to you. 691 00:32:56,367 --> 00:32:58,257 Like, can we chat for 15 minutes? 692 00:32:58,617 --> 00:33:01,107 It helps to really uncover a lot and it actually will make you 693 00:33:01,107 --> 00:33:01,947 Eddie: better at your job. 694 00:33:02,187 --> 00:33:02,787 I love that. 695 00:33:02,877 --> 00:33:03,357 That's what. 696 00:33:03,747 --> 00:33:08,967 We had a designer join our team and he set up just like, he was like, 697 00:33:08,967 --> 00:33:13,107 Hey, can we meet once a month and just chat for, you know, 15, 30 minutes? 698 00:33:13,257 --> 00:33:14,397 And I was like, sure. 699 00:33:14,397 --> 00:33:17,367 Like no one had done that before and I've worked in remotely 700 00:33:17,367 --> 00:33:19,047 for the last seven years. 701 00:33:19,437 --> 00:33:19,917 And I was like, wow. 702 00:33:19,917 --> 00:33:22,167 That's the first time someone's just like, Hey, let's just get 703 00:33:22,167 --> 00:33:23,547 together and chat casually. 704 00:33:23,637 --> 00:33:26,247 And so, yeah, I think that makes a huge difference when you can. 705 00:33:27,107 --> 00:33:30,107 Get to know people in different departments in different things. 706 00:33:30,317 --> 00:33:30,857 That's awesome. 707 00:33:31,157 --> 00:33:31,847 Well, cool. 708 00:33:31,847 --> 00:33:35,237 I mean, you know, as we wrap up, we always just as a community, like to 709 00:33:35,237 --> 00:33:38,357 support each other and, you know, wanted to hear if there's anything 710 00:33:38,357 --> 00:33:40,247 that we can do to support you. 711 00:33:40,247 --> 00:33:43,637 If you have anything you've been involved in or anything you've worked on that 712 00:33:43,642 --> 00:33:45,227 you'd like to share with the community. 713 00:33:45,627 --> 00:33:49,167 Rashel: Right now I'm actually, as I'm, I'm consulting and, and working as a 714 00:33:49,167 --> 00:33:53,607 fractional C M O I am also working on a skincare brand with a really good friend 715 00:33:53,612 --> 00:33:58,617 of mine, and we are both, obviously we're women of color, we are females in 716 00:33:58,617 --> 00:34:02,157 the D two C space and we are creating a skincare brand called Shell Body. 717 00:34:02,162 --> 00:34:06,687 So, My only ask for the community is to check out shell 718 00:34:06,687 --> 00:34:10,197 body.com, C H E L L e body.com. 719 00:34:10,197 --> 00:34:11,427 Take a look at our product. 720 00:34:11,907 --> 00:34:14,967 It's something that we created and launched in the fall, and we've 721 00:34:14,967 --> 00:34:18,357 been creating small batches of this product and then selling out 722 00:34:18,357 --> 00:34:19,737 every time, which has been great. 723 00:34:20,037 --> 00:34:21,207 It is based on. 724 00:34:22,137 --> 00:34:26,217 Ancient Persian beautification rituals and like hamams that they had back in the day. 725 00:34:26,217 --> 00:34:28,137 So it's like an exfoliation for your body. 726 00:34:28,137 --> 00:34:30,957 It makes your skin so smooth, it feels really good. 727 00:34:31,377 --> 00:34:36,087 And our mission is to make skincare no fuss with simple ingredients that 728 00:34:36,087 --> 00:34:39,057 you can actually read and you're not questioning what kind of chemicals are 729 00:34:39,062 --> 00:34:41,067 in these products that actually work. 730 00:34:41,127 --> 00:34:45,177 And so that is the journey that we're on, the two of us together 731 00:34:45,177 --> 00:34:46,167 and it's been really fun. 732 00:34:46,172 --> 00:34:48,597 So any feedback anyone has, I would love to hear it. 733 00:34:49,192 --> 00:34:52,822 Eddie: That's really cool because as soon as you mentioned, right, that 734 00:34:53,002 --> 00:34:57,682 it was based on kind of some older, traditional ways of doing beautification, 735 00:34:57,682 --> 00:35:01,432 like I was like, oh, that's really cool because most of the time you hear of 736 00:35:01,437 --> 00:35:03,802 skincare and different things like that. 737 00:35:03,802 --> 00:35:06,502 Like you're instantly like, well, what chemicals are going into this? 738 00:35:06,502 --> 00:35:11,452 And like, what new methodology is someone trying to use and is it real, you know? 739 00:35:12,317 --> 00:35:16,007 Anyone can say, Hey, I came up with a new way to do this thing, and if they 740 00:35:16,007 --> 00:35:19,097 say, oh yeah, it just takes a year or two and your skin will be like new. 741 00:35:19,097 --> 00:35:23,057 It's like, well, you're paying them a year before you know that, so I love that. 742 00:35:23,062 --> 00:35:26,147 Instead, you're looking back and you're saying, how have people 743 00:35:26,147 --> 00:35:27,647 done that and how can we take. 744 00:35:27,907 --> 00:35:31,957 What they've done in the past, milled it with what we know today and like 745 00:35:32,227 --> 00:35:33,697 bring that together as a combination. 746 00:35:33,697 --> 00:35:34,777 That is really cool. 747 00:35:34,897 --> 00:35:35,347 Rashel: Awesome. 748 00:35:35,347 --> 00:35:38,707 Yeah, and it's, and we're like you said, it's for our product. 749 00:35:38,707 --> 00:35:40,807 You don't have to keep using it for a year. 750 00:35:40,807 --> 00:35:43,687 Literally the first time you use it, you will see results. 751 00:35:43,687 --> 00:35:48,577 We've had people that have tried, it's like an exfoliation MIT and a polishing. 752 00:35:49,612 --> 00:35:53,062 And after they use it, I've had text messages, people messaging me and 753 00:35:53,062 --> 00:35:57,682 emailing us and saying this like, so much dry skin came off my body. 754 00:35:57,687 --> 00:35:59,182 My skin is so smooth now. 755 00:35:59,187 --> 00:36:00,082 This is incredible. 756 00:36:00,082 --> 00:36:03,992 And so I think that's another reason why we're really motivated about this is. 757 00:36:04,527 --> 00:36:07,647 The skincare industry at large, it's a billion dollar industry, 758 00:36:07,647 --> 00:36:08,907 like multi-billion dollar industry. 759 00:36:08,907 --> 00:36:13,227 But there's nothing that's that immediate where you see results right 760 00:36:13,227 --> 00:36:16,257 away, unless you're spending thousands of dollars on lasers and things. 761 00:36:16,257 --> 00:36:20,307 And we wanted it to be at an affordable price point where anyone can purchase 762 00:36:20,312 --> 00:36:23,427 this product and feel good, and also feel good knowing like, I'm 763 00:36:23,427 --> 00:36:26,277 not putting a ton of chemicals on my body or doing anything harmful. 764 00:36:26,337 --> 00:36:26,817 Yeah, 765 00:36:26,817 --> 00:36:27,597 Eddie: absolutely. 766 00:36:27,897 --> 00:36:28,497 Well, great. 767 00:36:28,617 --> 00:36:32,097 So if anyone is interested in that, go take a look at the. 768 00:36:32,937 --> 00:36:35,127 Read what it's about and yeah. 769 00:36:35,817 --> 00:36:38,307 Well, that is pretty much it for today. 770 00:36:38,307 --> 00:36:40,587 Rochelle, thank you so much for joining us. 771 00:36:40,587 --> 00:36:45,687 It's been just a pleasure to chat and get to know you and your journey and hear 772 00:36:45,687 --> 00:36:47,607 your thoughts and what brings you joy. 773 00:36:47,697 --> 00:36:49,107 I just really appreciate it. 774 00:36:49,167 --> 00:36:49,677 Thanks so much 775 00:36:49,677 --> 00:36:50,157 Rashel: for having me. 776 00:36:50,157 --> 00:36:53,817 It's been so fun getting to know you these last couple of weeks and then 777 00:36:54,407 --> 00:36:55,767 actually having this chat with you today. 778 00:36:55,767 --> 00:36:57,867 So I really appreciate it and I hope that. 779 00:36:58,247 --> 00:37:02,957 Anyone who watches this podcast learns a little bit about how to, to work 780 00:37:02,957 --> 00:37:07,667 with marketing teams and the value of marketing and the psychology of 781 00:37:07,787 --> 00:37:09,467 building products for consumers. 782 00:37:10,647 --> 00:37:13,737 Eddie: Thank you for joining us for episode 32. 783 00:37:13,947 --> 00:37:18,027 You never know where it's going to take you with Rochelle horary you 784 00:37:18,027 --> 00:37:21,867 can find out more about Rochelle on her website or Twitter at. 785 00:37:22,167 --> 00:37:23,217 Rochelle hurry. 786 00:37:23,727 --> 00:37:27,117 You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode, as 787 00:37:27,117 --> 00:37:30,597 well as a link to Rochelle's website and Twitter in the show notes. 788 00:37:30,987 --> 00:37:34,437 If you enjoyed this episode, help others discover it as well. 789 00:37:34,857 --> 00:37:37,497 How about giving us a shout out on your favorite social media 790 00:37:37,497 --> 00:37:41,757 platform tag, a friend or coworker that you think would enjoy it? 791 00:37:42,387 --> 00:37:46,587 And don't forget to follow us wherever you hang out online or subscribe to 792 00:37:46,617 --> 00:37:48,537 our newsletter to stay up to date. 793 00:37:49,047 --> 00:37:51,957 Thank you for listening and have a great day.