1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,333 Anna: Good evening everyone, and welcome to Crowd Church. I'm really excited to be 2 00:00:05,333 --> 00:00:09,667 Anna: here tonight. I'm one of your hosts for this evening's livestream. I'm joined by 3 00:00:09,667 --> 00:00:14,000 Anna: Sharon. Sharon, do you want to say hi? 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,000 Sharon: Hi everybody, great to be here. Glad you could join us. 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Anna: And we're also going to be hearing from your lovely husband Matt in a minute, 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,000 Anna: who's going to be sharing with us tonight. Lovely husband. 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Matt: Yeah, well, he's all right, isn't he? 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Sharon: It's pretty good. 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,750 Anna: I mean, yeah. So tonight we're excited to be starting a brand new series. For 10 00:00:32,750 --> 00:00:37,500 Anna: anyone who's been with us a while, you'll know that we've been looking at Easter 11 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:42,250 Anna: stories the last few weeks, but tonight we're kicking off a brand new series and 12 00:00:42,250 --> 00:00:47,000 Anna: we're going to be talking about Jesus — the life of Jesus — and the theme is 13 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,750 Anna: *Jesus the Revolutionary*. So it's all about the Jesus that maybe you've grown 14 00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:56,500 Anna: up learning about, or maybe you don't know very much about; some of those 15 00:00:56,500 --> 00:01:01,250 Anna: conceptions, misconceptions that we have. Who's the Jesus that we think we know? 16 00:01:01,250 --> 00:01:06,000 Anna: Who's the real Jesus that the Bible tells us about? I think it's going to be a 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,750 Anna: good series, and it's going to be rolling for the best part of this year, we 18 00:01:10,750 --> 00:01:15,500 Anna: think. So stick with us for that. Matt's going to be sharing the introduction 19 00:01:15,500 --> 00:01:20,250 Anna: tonight, so rather than me guess what he's going to talk about any more, I'll 20 00:01:20,250 --> 00:01:25,000 Anna: pass over to him and he can tell us a little bit more. Then we'll come back to 21 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,750 Anna: Conversation Street afterwards, which is just a chance to post your questions 22 00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:34,500 Anna: while he's talking, and we'll try and answer them and unpick them at the end. So 23 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:39,250 Anna: be posting, be thinking while he's talking. Matt, over to you. --- ## Talk — The 24 00:01:39,250 --> 00:01:44,000 Anna: Jesus Nobody Warned You About 25 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:50,125 Matt: Well, hello, good evening, welcome. It's good to be with you guys. We get to 26 00:01:50,125 --> 00:01:56,250 Matt: kick off a brand new teaching series tonight, all about Jesus the Revolutionary. 27 00:01:56,250 --> 00:02:02,375 Matt: I've been looking forward to this, actually. It's fair to say this is going to 28 00:02:02,375 --> 00:02:08,500 Matt: be epic. So make sure you stick with us as we go through this series. I'm going 29 00:02:08,500 --> 00:02:14,625 Matt: to start, I think, with a confession, if I may. We're in church. One of regret. 30 00:02:14,625 --> 00:02:20,750 Matt: You see, when I was at school, I used to walk the perimeter during break — just 31 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:26,875 Matt: doing laps around the school. I'd be with friends, and I remember we were 32 00:02:26,875 --> 00:02:33,000 Matt: chatting and we were coming around the corner and seeing this guy sat there on 33 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:39,125 Matt: his own. I didn't really know him, but I did know that he was a Christian. And 34 00:02:39,125 --> 00:02:45,250 Matt: so I absolutely tore into him. I made fun of everything about him — the way he 35 00:02:45,250 --> 00:02:51,375 Matt: dressed, the fact he didn't swear, the fact he never seemed to have any fun. I 36 00:02:51,375 --> 00:02:57,500 Matt: couldn't understand why anyone would choose that. In my thinking, Jesus was a 37 00:02:57,500 --> 00:03:03,625 Matt: killjoy. He was like the fun police. And maybe you're like me walking around my 38 00:03:03,625 --> 00:03:09,750 Matt: old school. You have a version of Jesus in your mind that you can't shift past. 39 00:03:09,750 --> 00:03:15,875 Matt: So what if the Jesus you think you know is not the Jesus who actually showed up? 40 00:03:15,875 --> 00:03:22,000 Matt: What if Jesus is way, way bigger than our notion of him? There's a hymn — some 41 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:28,125 Matt: of you may know it — an old, old hymn called *Gentle Jesus, Meek and Mild*. It 42 00:03:28,125 --> 00:03:34,250 Matt: was actually written in 1742. I get why the idea of this is appealing, because 43 00:03:34,250 --> 00:03:40,375 Matt: who doesn't want a gentle God? I definitely don't want a mean and angry God. But 44 00:03:40,375 --> 00:03:46,500 Matt: it can lead you to the idea of a God who's basically a cosmic therapist with a 45 00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:52,625 Matt: beard and sandals — someone who pats you on the head and says, "There, there, 46 00:03:52,625 --> 00:03:58,750 Matt: it's all going to be fine." Of course, Jesus is gentle. He is kind. But 47 00:03:58,750 --> 00:04:04,875 Matt: somewhere along the way we took those qualities and we built this entire Jesus 48 00:04:04,875 --> 00:04:11,000 Matt: ecosystem out of them. We edited out everything else. We kept the bits that made 49 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:17,125 Matt: us comfortable and quietly deleted the rest. We've been doing a bit of clearing 50 00:04:17,125 --> 00:04:23,250 Matt: at the house recently and came across an old children's Bible. Beautiful 51 00:04:23,250 --> 00:04:29,375 Matt: illustrations. You know the kind of thing I mean — the one with white Jesus on 52 00:04:29,375 --> 00:04:35,500 Matt: the front looking like a friendly primary school teacher in a white tunic with a 53 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:41,625 Matt: blue sash, everything in pastel colours. Jesus is smiling, it's calm, and he's 54 00:04:41,625 --> 00:04:47,750 Matt: surrounded by lambs. And I think, well, maybe this is the Jesus that people are 55 00:04:47,750 --> 00:04:53,875 Matt: rejecting. Honestly, I wouldn't blame them, because that Jesus is way too small 56 00:04:53,875 --> 00:05:00,000 Matt: for the world we actually live in. We do this to radical people, by the way, 57 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:06,125 Matt: don't we? Take Martin Luther King. Most of us know the "I Have a Dream" speech. 58 00:05:06,125 --> 00:05:12,250 Matt: It's on posters, it's on mugs. But the same man said the evils of capitalism are 59 00:05:12,250 --> 00:05:18,375 Matt: as real as the evils of militarism or of racism. He called for radical 60 00:05:18,375 --> 00:05:24,500 Matt: redistribution of wealth, and in his lifetime the FBI called him the most 61 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:30,625 Matt: dangerous man in America. Now he's on a postage stamp. We killed, as a society, 62 00:05:30,625 --> 00:05:36,750 Matt: the majority of his ideas and celebrated the bits we liked. Then we used his 63 00:05:36,750 --> 00:05:42,875 Matt: sanitised words to resist the very changes he was actually demanding. And I just 64 00:05:42,875 --> 00:05:49,000 Matt: wonder if we've done exactly the same thing with Jesus in many ways. The problem 65 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:55,125 Matt: with cardboard Jesus is that he can't actually do anything. He can't challenge 66 00:05:55,125 --> 00:06:01,250 Matt: you, because that's not gentle. He can't disagree with your culture, because 67 00:06:01,250 --> 00:06:07,375 Matt: that's not meek. He can't say something that makes you deeply uncomfortable, 68 00:06:07,375 --> 00:06:13,500 Matt: because that's not mild. So you end up with a Jesus who agrees with everything 69 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:19,625 Matt: you already believe, which is remarkably convenient, isn't it? Here's the thing: 70 00:06:19,625 --> 00:06:25,750 Matt: a Jesus who never disrupts you is a Jesus who can never transform you. So if 71 00:06:25,750 --> 00:06:31,875 Matt: that's the Jesus we've invented, what was the actual Jesus like, and how did he 72 00:06:31,875 --> 00:06:38,000 Matt: describe himself in his lifetime and in his ministry? That's something we're 73 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:44,125 Matt: going to get into in this series. But I want to start at Luke chapter 4, because 74 00:06:44,125 --> 00:06:50,250 Matt: Luke chapter 4 gives us this front-row seat right at the moment Jesus kicks off 75 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:56,375 Matt: his ministry — him announcing to the world what's going to happen. And let me 76 00:06:56,375 --> 00:07:02,500 Matt: tell you, it does not go well at all. I'm going to take you to the synagogue in 77 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:08,625 Matt: Jesus's hometown of Nazareth. Maybe 400-ish people live there. Everyone knows 78 00:07:08,625 --> 00:07:14,750 Matt: everyone. It's warm. It's that kind of dry heat where the dust hangs in the air 79 00:07:14,750 --> 00:07:20,875 Matt: and the stone walls hold the cool from the night before. People are shuffling 80 00:07:20,875 --> 00:07:27,000 Matt: around on these carved benches, the kids are fidgeting, and there's the low hum 81 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,125 Matt: of neighbours catching up before things start. These people have known Jesus his 82 00:07:33,125 --> 00:07:39,250 Matt: whole life. They've known his mum. They've bought furniture from his workshop, 83 00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:45,375 Matt: and some of them probably taught him to read in the very room in which they were 84 00:07:45,375 --> 00:07:51,500 Matt: sat. It's at this moment Jesus announces himself to the world, and he chose to 85 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:57,625 Matt: do it here in this small stone building that is the centre of this really 86 00:07:57,625 --> 00:08:03,750 Matt: insignificant community. The Bible tells us that he stands up to read, and he's 87 00:08:03,750 --> 00:08:09,875 Matt: handed the scroll of Isaiah, one of the Old Testament prophets. It's a heavy 88 00:08:09,875 --> 00:08:16,000 Matt: thing — not like a Bible that we have now; it's made from animal skin and wooden 89 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:22,125 Matt: rollers. He unrolls it to a prophecy about freedom and starts to read. So if 90 00:08:22,125 --> 00:08:28,250 Matt: you've got your Bibles, turn to Luke chapter 4. We're going to read verses 18 91 00:08:28,250 --> 00:08:34,375 Matt: and 19, where he says: > "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has 92 00:08:34,375 --> 00:08:40,500 Matt: anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim 93 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:46,625 Matt: liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty 94 00:08:46,625 --> 00:08:52,750 Matt: those who are oppressed, and to proclaim the year of the Lord's favour." Then he 95 00:08:52,750 --> 00:08:58,875 Matt: rolls up the scroll, gives it back to the chap that handed it to him, and he 96 00:08:58,875 --> 00:09:05,000 Matt: sits down — which is a bit like this, I suppose, a posture of a teacher about to 97 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:11,125 Matt: say something important. Jesus turns to the crowd after he sits down, leans 98 00:09:11,125 --> 00:09:17,250 Matt: forward, and goes: "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing." I wonder 99 00:09:17,250 --> 00:09:23,375 Matt: if you can feel the weight of that. He didn't say, "You know what, chaps, this 100 00:09:23,375 --> 00:09:29,500 Matt: is a really nice aspiration." He didn't say, "One day someone will do this." He 101 00:09:29,500 --> 00:09:35,625 Matt: said, "Today. Right now. In this room. Through me." This is not a sermon, this 102 00:09:35,625 --> 00:09:41,750 Matt: is a declaration. The word *freedom* in this passage that Jesus refers to in the 103 00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:47,875 Matt: original language basically means "everything's been reset", which is a great 104 00:09:47,875 --> 00:09:54,000 Matt: phrase. It has echoes of this ancient Jubilee tradition where every 50 years all 105 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,125 Matt: the debts were cancelled, all the slaves were freed, and all the land was 106 00:10:00,125 --> 00:10:06,250 Matt: returned. It was this huge economic and social reset. Imagine someone walking 107 00:10:06,250 --> 00:10:12,375 Matt: into Parliament today, or the House of Representatives, or wherever you are in 108 00:10:12,375 --> 00:10:18,500 Matt: the world, and they stand up and announce to the whole world that all debt is 109 00:10:18,500 --> 00:10:24,625 Matt: cancelled. So for you, your student loans, your mortgages, your credit cards — 110 00:10:24,625 --> 00:10:30,750 Matt: all of them cancelled today, right now. This is the scale of the disruption I 111 00:10:30,750 --> 00:10:36,875 Matt: think Jesus is announcing, except he was talking about stuff way more than 112 00:10:36,875 --> 00:10:43,000 Matt: money. He was talking about everything. Now, this ancient prophecy Jesus reads 113 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:49,125 Matt: from goes on to speak of God's vengeance and payback. If you read it in Isaiah, 114 00:10:49,125 --> 00:10:55,250 Matt: it's got this whole thing about retribution. But Luke records that Jesus talked 115 00:10:55,250 --> 00:11:01,375 Matt: about the grace but left out all the stuff about vengeance. Whether Jesus made a 116 00:11:01,375 --> 00:11:07,500 Matt: deliberate choice to stop reading at that point, or whether Luke is just 117 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:13,625 Matt: highlighting what maybe mattered most, the message that comes back is the same: 118 00:11:13,625 --> 00:11:19,750 Matt: Jesus came leading with grace, not with payback; with freedom, not with 119 00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:25,875 Matt: punishment. I read that and go, "That's amazing." But for the audience at the 120 00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:32,000 Matt: time in this small stone synagogue, they were deeply troubled by this. They were 121 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:38,125 Matt: very, very uncomfortable. They wanted a Messiah who would destroy their enemies, 122 00:11:38,125 --> 00:11:44,250 Matt: take them out, and at every form of injustice they would have had their 123 00:11:44,250 --> 00:11:50,375 Matt: retribution and their enemies would have suffered. They wanted a conquering 124 00:11:50,375 --> 00:11:56,500 Matt: Messiah — a God to intervene, someone to intervene in their fate, take control. 125 00:11:56,500 --> 00:12:02,625 Matt: I think we still want that today, don't we, from Jesus? And Jesus offers them, 126 00:12:02,625 --> 00:12:08,750 Matt: and us, a Messiah who would free them. He would free all the oppressed — but 127 00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:14,875 Matt: Jesus is including, it turns out, the Romans, their enemy, in his decision to 128 00:12:14,875 --> 00:12:21,000 Matt: free people. He's not going to conquer them, he's going to free them. Then 129 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:27,125 Matt: Jesus, when he's talking to these chaps still sat there, does something really 130 00:12:27,125 --> 00:12:33,250 Matt: extraordinary. He brings up two old stories from the Old Testament, and the 131 00:12:33,250 --> 00:12:39,375 Matt: commonality in these two stories is that God bypasses Israel entirely and sent 132 00:12:39,375 --> 00:12:45,500 Matt: help to outsiders, to foreigners, to their enemies. He reminded them of the 133 00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:51,625 Matt: stories of Elijah, who was sent to a foreign widow, and Elisha, who was sent to 134 00:12:51,625 --> 00:12:57,750 Matt: heal a Syrian general. The Jesus they thought they knew is definitely the Jesus 135 00:12:57,750 --> 00:13:03,875 Matt: who is not showing up right now. The room erupts. They surge towards Jesus and 136 00:13:03,875 --> 00:13:10,000 Matt: grab hold of him. They push him out, and they push him to the edge of the cliff. 137 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:16,125 Matt: So the people that were speaking well of him 30 minutes ago — his friends, his 138 00:13:16,125 --> 00:13:22,250 Matt: neighbours, the people he grew up with — now want to throw him off a cliff. 139 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:28,375 Matt: Literally throw him off a cliff. In their minds, he is worthy now of only one 140 00:13:28,375 --> 00:13:34,500 Matt: thing: being put to death. And then Luke, the way he puts it, is just 141 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:40,625 Matt: remarkable. It just says that Jesus walked right through them and went on his 142 00:13:40,625 --> 00:13:46,750 Matt: way. That's a pretty significant miracle, isn't it? It's just one of those 143 00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:52,875 Matt: things. I try and picture it in my head — he just walks on through. But why were 144 00:13:52,875 --> 00:13:59,000 Matt: they so angry? Why would they throw, or try and throw, Jesus off a cliff? 145 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:05,125 Matt: Because the bottom line is Jesus is not their perceived version of Messiah. 146 00:14:05,125 --> 00:14:11,250 Matt: Because Jesus just told them that God's revolution wasn't exclusively for them — 147 00:14:11,250 --> 00:14:17,375 Matt: his revolution was for everyone. A Jesus who is for everyone is deeply 148 00:14:17,375 --> 00:14:23,500 Matt: threatening to people who thought he was only for them. That alone, I think, 149 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:29,625 Matt: pretty much obliterates and destroys the myth of cardboard Jesus. Now, I'm not 150 00:14:29,625 --> 00:14:35,750 Matt: saying familiarity with Jesus is the problem. Of course it isn't. The crowd knew 151 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:41,875 Matt: Jesus. They knew who he was. But there's a difference between deep familiarity 152 00:14:41,875 --> 00:14:48,000 Matt: and closed familiarity. Deep familiarity keeps expecting him to surprise you, 153 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:54,125 Matt: but closed familiarity thinks you've finished knowing him. One draws you closer, 154 00:14:54,125 --> 00:15:00,250 Matt: the other builds a wall. And any of us can drift from one to the other, I think, 155 00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:06,375 Matt: without really noticing, as soon as we think we've got it all figured out. So 156 00:15:06,375 --> 00:15:12,500 Matt: what does it look like when you encounter this Jesus — the one who turns up with 157 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:18,625 Matt: freedom in one hand and disruption in the other? I don't think the real Jesus is 158 00:15:18,625 --> 00:15:24,750 Matt: meek and mild, but I also don't think he's angry Jesus, harsh and wild. He's 159 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:30,875 Matt: something far more interesting. I think he's a Jesus who is lovingly fierce. He 160 00:15:30,875 --> 00:15:37,000 Matt: is fierce against everything that holds you captive, and he's relentlessly 161 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,125 Matt: tender towards you as well. It's a really interesting tension. A Jesus who loves 162 00:15:43,125 --> 00:15:49,250 Matt: you too much to leave you where you are, and loves the world too much to leave 163 00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:55,375 Matt: it as it is. The same Jesus who provoked a riot in Nazareth is the same Jesus 164 00:15:55,375 --> 00:16:01,500 Matt: who wept at a friend's grave and welcomed children onto his lap. He's not one or 165 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:07,625 Matt: the other, he's both. If you've experienced a version of Christianity that felt 166 00:16:07,625 --> 00:16:13,750 Matt: aggressive or controlling, that is not what I am talking about. The fierceness 167 00:16:13,750 --> 00:16:19,875 Matt: of Jesus is always aimed at what's hurting you, never at you. And that freedom 168 00:16:19,875 --> 00:16:26,000 Matt: he announced, it's not abstract — it is very specific. It's free from the guilt 169 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:32,125 Matt: you carry. It's free from the story that you're not enough. But when Jesus read 170 00:16:32,125 --> 00:16:38,250 Matt: those verses in that dusty old synagogue, he meant all of it — economic, social, 171 00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:44,375 Matt: spiritual freedom. We've tended, certainly in the modern church, to define it 172 00:16:44,375 --> 00:16:50,500 Matt: just as the spiritual bit, because it brings spiritual freedom. It does. But 173 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:56,625 Matt: it's a bit vague, isn't it? And it doesn't really demand anything from us. I 174 00:16:56,625 --> 00:17:02,750 Matt: wonder if this is the sanitisation Jesus is warning us about in these verses. 175 00:17:02,750 --> 00:17:08,875 Matt: Jesus delivers that freedom not through violence but through sacrifice. 176 00:17:08,875 --> 00:17:15,000 Matt: Christians haven't always followed that idea, have they? But Jesus did. He 177 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:21,125 Matt: understood that violence may change circumstance, but sacrifice transforms life. 178 00:17:21,125 --> 00:17:27,250 Matt: That changes hearts. So it wasn't through a sword, but through a cross. 179 00:17:27,250 --> 00:17:33,375 Matt: Everything Jesus announces in that dusty synagogue in Nazareth, he delivers on 180 00:17:33,375 --> 00:17:39,500 Matt: the cross. And when he came back from the dead, he proved that freedom was real. 181 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:45,625 Matt: This is something we are definitely going to get into in the coming weeks. So 182 00:17:45,625 --> 00:17:51,750 Matt: the Jesus you think you know might not be the Jesus who actually showed up all 183 00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:57,875 Matt: those years ago. It might not be the same Jesus that comes now. The one who 184 00:17:57,875 --> 00:18:04,000 Matt: actually shows up, I think, is far more dangerous to your comfort but far more 185 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:10,125 Matt: devoted to your freedom than you ever imagined. So back to my opening 186 00:18:10,125 --> 00:18:16,250 Matt: confession, the one of regret. Remember the lad at school, the one I made fun of 187 00:18:16,250 --> 00:18:22,375 Matt: or ripped into for being a Christian? If you'd asked me at the time, "Was I a 188 00:18:22,375 --> 00:18:28,500 Matt: Christian?", I probably would have said in some way yes. I was a cultural 189 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:34,625 Matt: Christian. I believed in God because I was born in England. Never really thought 190 00:18:34,625 --> 00:18:40,750 Matt: about it, though. But I did know enough to know that following Jesus meant 191 00:18:40,750 --> 00:18:46,875 Matt: becoming boring, joyless, a killjoy. Why would I not swear? Why would I not have 192 00:18:46,875 --> 00:18:53,000 Matt: fun with my girlfriend? Why would I live this straight-laced, boring life? I 193 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:59,125 Matt: thought he was the freak. But it turned out I was the one that was the fool. A 194 00:18:59,125 --> 00:19:05,250 Matt: few years later, I came head to head with this idea that Jesus was a killjoy. I 195 00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:11,375 Matt: found myself sat in a church listening to a preacher, and I prayed, "Jesus, you 196 00:19:11,375 --> 00:19:17,500 Matt: can have my life, just don't ask me to give up the fun." I remember praying that 197 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:23,625 Matt: prayer in church. Even then, when I was prepared to become a Christian, I still 198 00:19:23,625 --> 00:19:29,750 Matt: had this belief, this idea, that Jesus was out to stop me having fun. I 199 00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:35,875 Matt: continued to wrestle with this idea for about a year. In that time, I discovered 200 00:19:35,875 --> 00:19:42,000 Matt: that I was the one who was not actually having fun. I was the one who was 201 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:48,125 Matt: missing out on what abundant life was. Not the kid at school — me. That's my 202 00:19:48,125 --> 00:19:54,250 Matt: regret, and it's my shame, because the way I dealt with my own ignorance was to 203 00:19:54,250 --> 00:20:00,375 Matt: be aggressively mean to him. Because I could. Because I was the stronger one. 204 00:20:00,375 --> 00:20:06,500 Matt: Because I was with my friends and he was sat there alone. I had become the very 205 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:12,625 Matt: thing that I personally despised — I had become the bully. But thank God for his 206 00:20:12,625 --> 00:20:18,750 Matt: mercy on me, because I found out that Jesus was nothing like the killjoy I 207 00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:24,875 Matt: invented. That challenged everything for me. So the Jesus you think you know 208 00:20:24,875 --> 00:20:31,000 Matt: might not be the Jesus who actually shows up. Over the coming weeks, we're going 209 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:37,125 Matt: to meet the one who did. We're going to watch him do things that do not make any 210 00:20:37,125 --> 00:20:43,250 Matt: sense. We're going to listen to him say things that offended the wrong people. 211 00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:49,375 Matt: We're going to see him love the people everyone else gave up on. He picks fights 212 00:20:49,375 --> 00:20:55,500 Matt: with systems everybody else accepts. And he died in a way that nobody expected, 213 00:20:55,500 --> 00:21:01,625 Matt: and he comes back in a way that changes the entire trajectory of human history. 214 00:21:01,625 --> 00:21:07,750 Matt: If you've given up on Jesus because the version you were offered was too small, 215 00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:13,875 Matt: I get it, genuinely. But who wants a small God? I don't. If you've never 216 00:21:13,875 --> 00:21:20,000 Matt: actually met this Jesus — not the idea of him, but actually met him — I think 217 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:26,125 Matt: this series is a great place to start. And if you've already met him, if you're 218 00:21:26,125 --> 00:21:32,250 Matt: already a Christ-follower but you've lost the wonder and the awe, I wonder if 219 00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:38,375 Matt: this is a good place to start again. So my challenge to you this week is to try 220 00:21:38,375 --> 00:21:44,500 Matt: one thing: simply read Luke chapter 4, the verses we went through. Just read 221 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:50,625 Matt: that over and over again — just that one chapter — and ask yourself one simple 222 00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:56,750 Matt: question: does this Jesus I'm reading about match the one I've been carrying 223 00:21:56,750 --> 00:22:02,875 Matt: around? It's a really great question. Anyway, that's it from me. Back to you, 224 00:22:02,875 --> 00:22:09,000 Matt: ladies. --- ## Conversation Street 225 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,857 Anna: Brilliant. Thanks, Matt. That was just a great introduction. I really enjoyed 226 00:22:13,857 --> 00:22:18,714 Anna: it. I think it was personally very challenging. Even though some of us sat 227 00:22:18,714 --> 00:22:23,571 Anna: around this table have been Christians for a long time, I think that's actually 228 00:22:23,571 --> 00:22:28,429 Anna: a really interesting question to think about. What do you actually think of when 229 00:22:28,429 --> 00:22:33,286 Anna: you think of Jesus? Who do you think of? How do you think of him? What do you 230 00:22:33,286 --> 00:22:38,143 Anna: think about him? And how much does that marry up to scripture, or just kind of 231 00:22:38,143 --> 00:22:43,000 Anna: your cultural conditioning? What did you think, Sharon? 232 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,733 Sharon: Well, earlier this afternoon, I was just looking through and thinking, "Okay, 233 00:22:48,733 --> 00:22:54,467 Sharon: what are the different types of Jesus that we can get into?" So I've made a note 234 00:22:54,467 --> 00:23:00,200 Sharon: of a few. Matt kind of mentioned a little bit as well. There's the therapeutic 235 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,933 Sharon: life-coach Jesus, where we take the nice sayings to enhance our life but leave 236 00:23:05,933 --> 00:23:11,667 Sharon: the rest of it. There's the political or cultural Jesus, where we take the bits 237 00:23:11,667 --> 00:23:17,400 Sharon: where he aligns with our political views and assign him to our political party. 238 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:23,133 Sharon: There's nice Jesus, where we take away the hard teachings and keep just the nice 239 00:23:23,133 --> 00:23:28,867 Sharon: ones — the ones that make us feel good. There's the convenient saviour, where we 240 00:23:28,867 --> 00:23:34,600 Sharon: like the forgiveness-of-sins bit but we don't actually like the submitting to 241 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:40,333 Sharon: him as our king. And I was thinking again about how, in different religions, he 242 00:23:40,333 --> 00:23:46,067 Sharon: might be seen as a prophet but not the Son of God, where people might believe 243 00:23:46,067 --> 00:23:51,800 Sharon: that he didn't really die on the cross but it was some sort of illusion. So many 244 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,533 Sharon: different types. But I also relate to the people who had their expectations 245 00:23:57,533 --> 00:24:03,267 Sharon: turned upside down and didn't really get it, because the amount of times where 246 00:24:03,267 --> 00:24:09,000 Sharon: I've been like that, where I've not really got it. 247 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,389 Anna: I loved what Matt had to say about that whole thing of, you can't really put 248 00:24:14,389 --> 00:24:19,778 Anna: Jesus in a box. He isn't one thing. He's both fierce and loving — he's fiercely 249 00:24:19,778 --> 00:24:25,167 Anna: loving. And the two things are sort of in tension. You see that time and again 250 00:24:25,167 --> 00:24:30,556 Anna: when you get to know Jesus: this idea that he's both forgiving, but also he has 251 00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:35,944 Anna: this strong thing of justice, and he doesn't let evil go unpunished. All through 252 00:24:35,944 --> 00:24:41,333 Anna: the Bible there are all these tensions about the character of Jesus. He's not 253 00:24:41,333 --> 00:24:46,722 Anna: one thing, but these tensions make him this incredibly dynamic character that's 254 00:24:46,722 --> 00:24:52,111 Anna: quite counter-cultural. And yeah, I just think Matt's talk tonight really summed 255 00:24:52,111 --> 00:24:57,500 Anna: it up well. You see in culture at the moment, don't you, and in the news, you 256 00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:02,889 Anna: see it played out all the time — this idea that when somebody does make Jesus 257 00:25:02,889 --> 00:25:08,278 Anna: smaller, or make him fit their own ideology or politics, that that can get you 258 00:25:08,278 --> 00:25:13,667 Anna: into all kinds of horrible mess. You see it in Christian nationalism and a lot 259 00:25:13,667 --> 00:25:19,056 Anna: of what's happening in America at the moment. It kind of gets used as a 260 00:25:19,056 --> 00:25:24,444 Anna: justification to start wars on other nations, and yet Jesus doesn't take sides. 261 00:25:24,444 --> 00:25:29,833 Anna: He doesn't side with our nation. There's so much we can get into, but it's just 262 00:25:29,833 --> 00:25:35,222 Anna: so challenging, isn't it, to be like, "Who do I think Jesus is?" I think that's 263 00:25:35,222 --> 00:25:40,611 Anna: a really good question to sit with this week, and just kind of start picking at 264 00:25:40,611 --> 00:25:46,000 Anna: — at home as well. 265 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,625 Sharon: Yeah. I sometimes find that my brain is so small that I can only really grasp 266 00:25:51,625 --> 00:25:57,250 Sharon: bits of who God is at any one time. Trying to hold the whole thing together can 267 00:25:57,250 --> 00:26:02,875 Sharon: be a bit of a challenge, because God is so big. Like you say, you've got the 268 00:26:02,875 --> 00:26:08,500 Sharon: completely loving, but also the God of justice, and God manages to hold those 269 00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:14,125 Sharon: things in tension. But sometimes it's difficult to keep all of God. The times 270 00:26:14,125 --> 00:26:19,750 Sharon: when I feel like I'm more able to do that is when I have a really powerful 271 00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:25,375 Sharon: experience of his presence, and then it seems easier to hold all of those things 272 00:26:25,375 --> 00:26:31,000 Sharon: in tension. Other times that can be quite tricky. 273 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,727 Anna: I liked that whole idea of what he was saying about how we can make this 274 00:26:36,727 --> 00:26:42,455 Anna: cardboard cut-out Jesus, which is just like a nice guy. He's nice. I'm not 275 00:26:42,455 --> 00:26:48,182 Anna: saying Jesus wasn't nice, but he was so much more than that, wasn't he? When we 276 00:26:48,182 --> 00:26:53,909 Anna: have that idea of nice Jesus, he's not that disruptive Jesus who turns systems 277 00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:59,636 Anna: and things upside down and really challenges your life. That quote that Matt 278 00:26:59,636 --> 00:27:05,364 Anna: said — a Jesus who never disrupts you can never transform you — I think that is 279 00:27:05,364 --> 00:27:11,091 Anna: something I will take away and ponder this week. I don't want a God that's so 280 00:27:11,091 --> 00:27:16,818 Anna: small that he doesn't disrupt or transform or change my life. What's the point 281 00:27:16,818 --> 00:27:22,545 Anna: of a religion or faith, of anything really, what's the point of doing it if it 282 00:27:22,545 --> 00:27:28,273 Anna: doesn't make your life different, better, transformed? That's what we're here 283 00:27:28,273 --> 00:27:34,000 Anna: for: transformation. Not just something that's nice, comfortable. 284 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:40,000 Sharon: I was going to ask both of you whether you've got examples of when God has — not 285 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:46,000 Sharon: slapped you in the face, that's the wrong phrase — 286 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000 Matt: I've got examples of when he slapped me in the face. 287 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:52,286 Sharon: Maybe it's kind... They were accidents, all of them. But anyway — so, in fact, 288 00:27:52,286 --> 00:27:57,571 Sharon: I've got an eyewitness tonight. I'm going to have to explain this one now, okay, 289 00:27:57,571 --> 00:28:02,857 Sharon: just so you know that I'm not a husband-beater. So there was an example — we're 290 00:28:02,857 --> 00:28:08,143 Sharon: all in the hall: me, Matt, our daughter Zoe. We were going to say goodbye, and I 291 00:28:08,143 --> 00:28:13,429 Sharon: had this heavy bag on my shoulder and it slipped off. So I went to pull my arm 292 00:28:13,429 --> 00:28:18,714 Sharon: back to pull it on. In the process, my arm flipped up and smacked Matt in the 293 00:28:18,714 --> 00:28:24,000 Sharon: face. It really was an accident. But anyway, back to my question — 294 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,000 Matt: So hang on — hands up who believes Sharon that this was an accident. Yeah, 295 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,000 Matt: no-one's putting their hands up in the room. Come on, guys. 296 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,000 Sharon: Yeah, anyway. So my question is, have you got examples in your own life of where 297 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,000 Sharon: you've been confronted by God in a way that you weren't really expecting, or 298 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,000 Sharon: maybe didn't even necessarily like? 299 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:55,118 Matt: Yeah, I think many. I remember one time I was really not happy with life in 300 00:28:55,118 --> 00:29:01,235 Matt: church. Church was really frustrating me at the time, and I was getting more and 301 00:29:01,235 --> 00:29:07,353 Matt: more heated about this, more and more angry, more and more annoyed. It was going 302 00:29:07,353 --> 00:29:13,471 Matt: around in my head — that sort of emotion. I think I was probably giving into it 303 00:29:13,471 --> 00:29:19,588 Matt: quite a bit. I just remember praying one day, going, "God, I am really not 304 00:29:19,588 --> 00:29:25,706 Matt: happy." I'm a big believer that you can express and vent to God in your 305 00:29:25,706 --> 00:29:31,824 Matt: emotions. But I think every now and again, most of the time I think it's fine, 306 00:29:31,824 --> 00:29:37,941 Matt: but there are some times where God just challenges, and I just felt God 307 00:29:37,941 --> 00:29:44,059 Matt: challenge me at this point and say, "Okay, what is it you are not happy about?" 308 00:29:44,059 --> 00:29:50,176 Matt: And I'm like, "Well, I'm not happy about this, this, and this." And I just felt 309 00:29:50,176 --> 00:29:56,294 Matt: God at this point say, "You know what, Matt, I can listen to you all day long, 310 00:29:56,294 --> 00:30:02,412 Matt: but you go ahead and find me chapter and verse in the Bible where church is 311 00:30:02,412 --> 00:30:08,529 Matt: about you — and what you get out of it versus what you give to it. I'm all 312 00:30:08,529 --> 00:30:14,647 Matt: ears." I was like, "Okay." I just remember having this internal argument with 313 00:30:14,647 --> 00:30:20,765 Matt: God, and I was deeply challenged that I had this really lousy attitude. As they 314 00:30:20,765 --> 00:30:26,882 Matt: used to say in North Carolina, he got on me like a chicken on a bug. That's what 315 00:30:26,882 --> 00:30:33,000 Matt: I felt at that point. What about you, Anna? 316 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:38,235 Anna: I think one of the things that has really changed in how I think about Jesus is 317 00:30:38,235 --> 00:30:43,471 Anna: not thinking he's there to bless me and make my life better. For a long time I 318 00:30:43,471 --> 00:30:48,706 Anna: thought about Jesus as this person I pray to, and he's there to make my life — 319 00:30:48,706 --> 00:30:53,941 Anna: like a life-enhancement thing. A little bit like the therapist, really, but more 320 00:30:53,941 --> 00:30:59,176 Anna: like showering gifts from heaven on me. "Oh Lord, I want this meeting to go well 321 00:30:59,176 --> 00:31:04,412 Anna: at work. Oh Lord, I want a slightly nicer car." Whatever it was that day. 322 00:31:04,412 --> 00:31:09,647 Anna: Actually realising that the main point of relationship with Jesus is not just 323 00:31:09,647 --> 00:31:14,882 Anna: about enhancing or making my life more comfortable — I think that is a trap you 324 00:31:14,882 --> 00:31:20,118 Anna: can really get into. If you spend any time around certain Christians, it's just 325 00:31:20,118 --> 00:31:25,353 Anna: really not that healthy. There are a few good comments actually that have come 326 00:31:25,353 --> 00:31:30,588 Anna: through on the feed that I'll pull out as well. Alicia said: "I learned to see 327 00:31:30,588 --> 00:31:35,824 Anna: Jesus as a revolutionary from my dad and a comforter from my mum, which I think 328 00:31:35,824 --> 00:31:41,059 Anna: reflects their personalities and life experiences more than anything else, 329 00:31:41,059 --> 00:31:46,294 Anna: really." I think that's a really great point, Alicia. The idea that quite often 330 00:31:46,294 --> 00:31:51,529 Anna: we make Jesus in our own image, or to suit our own personalities. Maybe it's 331 00:31:51,529 --> 00:31:56,765 Anna: human nature, but we tend to lean into the parts of Jesus's character that 332 00:31:56,765 --> 00:32:02,000 Anna: resonate with us and who we are and how we're wired a lot, don't we? 333 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,833 Sharon: I think that can be both a positive and a negative, in terms of — I think we can 334 00:32:07,833 --> 00:32:13,667 Sharon: see different parts of God's character modelled in different people and the 335 00:32:13,667 --> 00:32:19,500 Sharon: strengths that they've got. Some people do model that fatherliness or the love; 336 00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:25,333 Sharon: other people might model the challenge. Together, as a body, we get more of a 337 00:32:25,333 --> 00:32:31,167 Sharon: whole picture of who God is, because he talks about us being the church, being 338 00:32:31,167 --> 00:32:37,000 Sharon: his body, doesn't he? So I think it can work both ways a little bit. 339 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,600 Anna: Yeah, I think you're right. That's why it's so important to be in some kind of 340 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,200 Anna: relationship and friendship with other believers, because you're not going to 341 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,800 Anna: get the whole picture on your own, are you? Maybe this is just skewing off on a 342 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,400 Anna: bit of a tangent — but if you've got other people that lean into other elements 343 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,000 Anna: of Jesus more, then maybe it brings some of that balance and challenge. 344 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:05,500 Sharon: And I think that challenge from God can come through other people. One of the 345 00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:11,000 Sharon: times that I first remember that — "Oh, I'm not sure about this" — was when I 346 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,500 Sharon: first came up to Liverpool to do the Year Team, discipleship Year Team, and I 347 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:22,000 Sharon: was a real mess. My mind was a mess. Everything was a mess. And somebody — 348 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,000 Matt: I hasten to add, she'd not met me at this point. I just want to point that out. 349 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,000 Sharon: We hadn't met, but you know. 350 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,000 Matt: Well, from a distance. 351 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,000 Anna: You're just saying it wasn't to do with the eCommerce Podcast. I just want to be 352 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,000 Anna: really clear. 353 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,000 Sharon: Nothing to do. 354 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,000 Matt: Not your fault. It's obviously important for my ego that I'm not associated with 355 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,000 Matt: your life being a mess. 356 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,000 Sharon: So anyway — I was struggling. One of the leaders of the team really challenged 357 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,000 Sharon: me that actually I needed to repent of stuff, and I needed to forgive people. It 358 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,000 Sharon: doesn't sound like much now, but at the time I was just like, "What? How can you 359 00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,000 Sharon: tell me that I need to deal with this? It's their fault that I'm like this." I 360 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,000 Sharon: had this real reaction to it. I was angry, because I didn't want to be 361 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,000 Sharon: confronted about my own sin, or about the people that I needed to forgive. I 362 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,000 Sharon: didn't want to forgive because I'm like, "If I do that, I'm going to take 363 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,000 Sharon: responsibility for the way I am." I didn't want to do that. So it just felt like 364 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,000 Sharon: God in my face. It came through another person, but I think I recognised that 365 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,000 Sharon: what they were saying was true. I didn't like it. I think God does do that with 366 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,000 Sharon: us. Years before that, when I would try and get close to God, I'd feel like my 367 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,000 Sharon: mind was going completely crazy, and I'd get angry with God and say, "Why are 368 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,000 Sharon: you making this hard for me?" But actually, it was God revealing the stuff in my 369 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,000 Sharon: life that needed to change. I didn't want that. I just wanted the nice cuddly 370 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,000 Sharon: Jesus who would soothe me and make everything better. But actually it was like, 371 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Sharon: "No, there's stuff that you need to do within your life." 372 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,500 Anna: And that sort of goes back to that point that Matt was making about Jesus being 373 00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:09,000 Anna: both fierce as well as loving and kind. It's his loving kindness that makes him 374 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,500 Anna: fiercely pursue you. And push you into a corner sometimes, to know you need to 375 00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:18,000 Anna: deal with this stuff in your life that's holding you back. You need freedom, you 376 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,500 Anna: need healing. The path of least resistance doesn't always take you to that 377 00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:27,000 Anna: point, does it? 378 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,000 Sharon: We do like our comfort, don't we? I just want to give that as an encouragement 379 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,000 Sharon: to anyone out there watching: if you are trying to get close to God, and 380 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:42,000 Sharon: actually life is becoming more difficult, lean into it. Find out what God is 381 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,000 Sharon: revealing in your life that needs to change. It might be that life gets more 382 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,000 Sharon: uncomfortable for a while, while God's dealing with that, while you're having to 383 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,000 Sharon: process that stuff with him. But keep leaning in. 384 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,800 Anna: There are some really nice comments here on the feed coming through. Zoe said, 385 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,600 Anna: "I've only just started to learn about Jesus recently, and I've been surprised 386 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,400 Anna: about how fierce he can be. I thought he was just quiet and calm." That's 387 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,200 Anna: interesting, because that is that perception map that you were talking about. 388 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:21,000 Anna: Alicia said, "I love that the Lord can embody all these contrasts, because it 389 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,800 Anna: helps me embrace coming to him on very different levels." I think that's a 390 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,600 Anna: really good point as well. Jesus is such a multifaceted individual. There's been 391 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,400 Anna: no-one else like him. There are so many different elements of his character. You 392 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,200 Anna: can't just say he's one thing. That's why we're going to be unpacking this for 393 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,000 Anna: most of the year, isn't it? 394 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:50,706 Matt: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack. I think in some respects that's the beauty of it, 395 00:36:50,706 --> 00:36:56,412 Matt: because you've got Jesus, who is God, who's created the universe, who is this 396 00:36:56,412 --> 00:37:02,118 Matt: awesome being who existed pre-time and exists outside of time, and is awesome 397 00:37:02,118 --> 00:37:07,824 Matt: and cosmic and all-powerful and omnipresent and omniscient and all these big 398 00:37:07,824 --> 00:37:13,529 Matt: fancy words we use. At the same time, he's the same God who knows about the 399 00:37:13,529 --> 00:37:19,235 Matt: sparrows and the lilies in the field. You're like, "This is a massive contrast." 400 00:37:19,235 --> 00:37:24,941 Matt: When you need comfort, he's the comforter. When you need picking up, he picks 401 00:37:24,941 --> 00:37:30,647 Matt: you up. When you need challenge, he challenges you. When you need that sense of 402 00:37:30,647 --> 00:37:36,353 Matt: security, that's what he brings. He's incredible. He brings you what you need, 403 00:37:36,353 --> 00:37:42,059 Matt: not always what you want — but certainly what you need. I think this is a really 404 00:37:42,059 --> 00:37:47,765 Matt: cool juxtaposition of faith, isn't it? The danger with that — and we are going 405 00:37:47,765 --> 00:37:53,471 Matt: to be unpacking some of these things, like we've mentioned — is you just get 406 00:37:53,471 --> 00:37:59,176 Matt: connected to the one bit you like. Jesus is a healer, and I've seen Jesus do 407 00:37:59,176 --> 00:38:04,882 Matt: miraculous healings with people — cancers and all kinds of stuff — and it's 408 00:38:04,882 --> 00:38:10,588 Matt: brilliant and it's awesome. So I just wanted to latch onto that for a long time. 409 00:38:10,588 --> 00:38:16,294 Matt: But it's not a complete story, and so you kind of have to understand the breadth 410 00:38:16,294 --> 00:38:22,000 Matt: and width of Jesus in so many ways. It's remarkable. 411 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,929 Anna: That comes with time, doesn't it? I feel like you go through different seasons 412 00:38:26,929 --> 00:38:31,857 Anna: of life, and there are maybe different aspects of Jesus's character that you get 413 00:38:31,857 --> 00:38:36,786 Anna: to know. I guess it's a little bit like any relationship. There are seasons of 414 00:38:36,786 --> 00:38:41,714 Anna: life where you lean more into one thing — like healing — or, "I'm really 415 00:38:41,714 --> 00:38:46,643 Anna: learning a lot about how Jesus is the healer at the moment." Then you might go 416 00:38:46,643 --> 00:38:51,571 Anna: through a season of life where you really don't see any of Jesus's healing in 417 00:38:51,571 --> 00:38:56,500 Anna: your life, or in anyone else's that you pray for, and then maybe he's 418 00:38:56,500 --> 00:39:01,429 Anna: highlighting something else a little bit more. It's a bit like any relationship, 419 00:39:01,429 --> 00:39:06,357 Anna: isn't it? When you and Sharon first met, you were getting to know deeper and 420 00:39:06,357 --> 00:39:11,286 Anna: deeper layers of who each other were. You're probably still, decades into 421 00:39:11,286 --> 00:39:16,214 Anna: marriage, learning — there are new layers and new aspects of each other, or 422 00:39:16,214 --> 00:39:21,143 Anna: parts of each other, that are untapped that you don't fully know yet. I think 423 00:39:21,143 --> 00:39:26,071 Anna: that's the beauty of a relationship, rather than it just being a faith or a 424 00:39:26,071 --> 00:39:31,000 Anna: religion. It's a relationship, so you're always learning more. 425 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,724 Matt: Yeah, no, that's totally right. The other thing I've noticed a lot — and I 426 00:39:36,724 --> 00:39:42,448 Matt: mentioned it in the talk slightly, and it'll be interesting to see where this 427 00:39:42,448 --> 00:39:48,172 Matt: goes over the next few weeks — is that the phrase "God is love" is in the Bible, 428 00:39:48,172 --> 00:39:53,897 Matt: right? We know that Jesus is the very definition of love. But in our heads, 429 00:39:53,897 --> 00:39:59,621 Matt: that's love how we understand it. Which is why I like the word *fierce*, because 430 00:39:59,621 --> 00:40:05,345 Matt: I think love is fierce. It's very, very fierce. You try taking a baby off a 431 00:40:05,345 --> 00:40:11,069 Matt: mother and you'll see how fierce that love can be. Using phrases like "God is 432 00:40:11,069 --> 00:40:16,793 Matt: love" is obviously biblical, but I think if you stop there, you fall into this 433 00:40:16,793 --> 00:40:22,517 Matt: trap that I mentioned right at the start: that Jesus, because he loves me, 434 00:40:22,517 --> 00:40:28,241 Matt: agrees with everything that I feel, that I want to do, that I want to believe. 435 00:40:28,241 --> 00:40:33,966 Matt: He can't disrupt that, he can't challenge that, because then it stops being 436 00:40:33,966 --> 00:40:39,690 Matt: loving, it starts being controlling. I've seen Christians the other way as well, 437 00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:45,414 Matt: who are all law — you know, you hold the pickets up outside abortion clinics and 438 00:40:45,414 --> 00:40:51,138 Matt: all that sort of stuff, and it's all condemnation. You're just like, neither is 439 00:40:51,138 --> 00:40:56,862 Matt: correct on its own. The thing I really wanted to bring out today that we really 440 00:40:56,862 --> 00:41:02,586 Matt: need to challenge is this Jesus, meek and mild, who just accepts everything 441 00:41:02,586 --> 00:41:08,310 Matt: about my life, who accepts everything about my lifestyle, how I view culture, 442 00:41:08,310 --> 00:41:14,034 Matt: how I speak, how I behave, how I feel, how I live. That is not the Jesus of the 443 00:41:14,034 --> 00:41:19,759 Matt: New Testament. The Jesus of the New Testament is fiercely loving towards you, 444 00:41:19,759 --> 00:41:25,483 Matt: but at the same time fiercely challenging over things which he perceives to be 445 00:41:25,483 --> 00:41:31,207 Matt: not the best for you — where you're not living in a way that is going to bring 446 00:41:31,207 --> 00:41:36,931 Matt: the fruit of the Holy Spirit into your life. The Apostle Paul puts it this way — 447 00:41:36,931 --> 00:41:42,655 Matt: excuse me — he talks about how our desire is to walk lives pleasing to him, 448 00:41:42,655 --> 00:41:48,379 Matt: walking worthy of the call of God on our lives. So there's this really 449 00:41:48,379 --> 00:41:54,103 Matt: interesting — we've talked about it before — the challenge between grace and 450 00:41:54,103 --> 00:41:59,828 Matt: truth, between mercy and justice, and these tensions that God seems to be able 451 00:41:59,828 --> 00:42:05,552 Matt: to walk and unpack. But I think there is a danger in Western Christianity, which 452 00:42:05,552 --> 00:42:11,276 Matt: is: Jesus loves me, therefore Jesus accepts me, therefore Jesus agrees with me — 453 00:42:11,276 --> 00:42:17,000 Matt: which I think is probably slightly dangerous theology. 454 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,222 Sharon: Yeah, I do think within culture generally, but also within the church, there is 455 00:42:22,222 --> 00:42:27,444 Sharon: less acceptance of people challenging you on anything. What you've just said 456 00:42:27,444 --> 00:42:32,667 Sharon: about, "You can't challenge me because that's not loving" — whereas the Bible 457 00:42:32,667 --> 00:42:37,889 Sharon: defines what love is, and talks about that if you see your brother in sin, the 458 00:42:37,889 --> 00:42:43,111 Sharon: loving thing to do is to go and confront them about that, but speaking the truth 459 00:42:43,111 --> 00:42:48,333 Sharon: in love. Again, it's having those two things together. Not just truth, but not 460 00:42:48,333 --> 00:42:53,556 Sharon: just wishy-washy love. But together, just to go, "Hang on, the way you're 461 00:42:53,556 --> 00:42:58,778 Sharon: walking now is leading to death. You need to turn back. Come on, turn back." I 462 00:42:58,778 --> 00:43:04,000 Sharon: do see a lot more resistance to that. 463 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:09,286 Anna: It's interesting. There's another good point coming through here on the feed, 464 00:43:09,286 --> 00:43:14,571 Anna: and it says, "It's a fascinating point, the idea that Jesus transforms through 465 00:43:14,571 --> 00:43:19,857 Anna: challenge. Maybe it attracts resistance because so many of us have come to 466 00:43:19,857 --> 00:43:25,143 Anna: attach negatives towards challenge." That's a really great point. That's the 467 00:43:25,143 --> 00:43:30,429 Anna: key, isn't it? Why does Jesus challenge us? Why are some of his teachings 468 00:43:30,429 --> 00:43:35,714 Anna: challenging? And what is the fruit of that? If you know that at core, God is 469 00:43:35,714 --> 00:43:41,000 Anna: love, and he's for you, and he wants the very best for your life, then you 470 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,286 Anna: understand that his challenge, his discipline, his correction of some things in 471 00:43:46,286 --> 00:43:51,571 Anna: your life is actually only to bring you greater wholeness, freedom, healing, 472 00:43:51,571 --> 00:43:56,857 Anna: good things. So it's about trusting God's character, isn't it, in order to be 473 00:43:56,857 --> 00:44:02,143 Anna: open to that challenge. Challenge isn't a bad thing when it's not challenge from 474 00:44:02,143 --> 00:44:07,429 Anna: a mean, evil parent. It's challenge from a loving Father who wants the best for 475 00:44:07,429 --> 00:44:12,714 Anna: you and wants you to live the fullest possible life. So again, it's having that 476 00:44:12,714 --> 00:44:18,000 Anna: right understanding of God — that's key to being open to it, really. 477 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,167 Sharon: Yeah. And I think that does really challenge the culture we have here in the 478 00:44:22,167 --> 00:44:26,333 Sharon: West at the minute, which is very much "you make your own truth, you decide 479 00:44:26,333 --> 00:44:30,500 Sharon: what's right". If anyone challenges you, they're not just challenging what you 480 00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:34,667 Sharon: believe, they're challenging you as a person. Whereas I don't think the Bible 481 00:44:34,667 --> 00:44:38,833 Sharon: sees it like that. I think it would separate those out. So it's just very much a 482 00:44:38,833 --> 00:44:43,000 Sharon: culture clash on that. 483 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:48,333 Matt: It is. And again, it's something we're going to get into a lot more, I think. 484 00:44:48,333 --> 00:44:53,667 Matt: But fundamentally, I think we have to be open to the idea that Jesus will 485 00:44:53,667 --> 00:44:59,000 Matt: challenge us, because if he can't challenge us, if he can't disrupt us, like I 486 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:04,333 Matt: said, he can't transform us. I think about the guys in the synagogue that tried 487 00:45:04,333 --> 00:45:09,667 Matt: to throw him off a cliff. That's not going well. You might not stay on YouTube 488 00:45:09,667 --> 00:45:15,000 Matt: much longer, but you're not going to come here, hopefully, and try and throw me 489 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:20,333 Matt: off a cliff if you don't like what I've said. But it's one of those where they 490 00:45:20,333 --> 00:45:25,667 Matt: had this expectation, this perception of Jesus, to act and do and be a certain 491 00:45:25,667 --> 00:45:31,000 Matt: way. When Jesus didn't fit that mould, they tried to throw him off a cliff. It's 492 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:36,333 Matt: that idea that we're going to have certain ideas and certain notions about 493 00:45:36,333 --> 00:45:41,667 Matt: Christ — and we have to be willing to go, "God, if you need to challenge that in 494 00:45:41,667 --> 00:45:47,000 Matt: me, go for it. I'm happy to be challenged, not just because these guys from a 495 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:52,333 Matt: studio in England have said it, but because your word says it, because I've 496 00:45:52,333 --> 00:45:57,667 Matt: understood something about you." I think that's going to be a really critical 497 00:45:57,667 --> 00:46:03,000 Matt: thing coming up over the weeks. Are you looking at the comments? 498 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,375 Sharon: I'm looking at a few comments. We've got Ellis, who's put, "Yes, I've seen 499 00:46:07,375 --> 00:46:11,750 Sharon: multiple people misunderstand and mischaracterise what love is. I'm sure I do it 500 00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:16,125 Sharon: too." I think it's like having the humility, isn't it, to go, "This is what my 501 00:46:16,125 --> 00:46:20,500 Sharon: current understanding is — but God, teach me." He's also put, "Even when I pray 502 00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:24,875 Sharon: and pray for things, I know — 'not my will but your will be done'. Because at 503 00:46:24,875 --> 00:46:29,250 Sharon: the end of the day, nowhere does the Bible say 'I'll give you exactly what you 504 00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:33,625 Sharon: want'. But sometimes it can be hard to accept." Absolutely — I'm with you on 505 00:46:33,625 --> 00:46:38,000 Sharon: that one. 506 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:44,500 Matt: Yeah, it'd be a lot easier maybe if it — yeah, that's for sure. Maybe. What else 507 00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:51,000 Matt: have we got going on in the comments? 508 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:57,333 Sharon: Sonia has — I think this is a reply to Ellis — "That's true, Ellis. I try to 509 00:46:57,333 --> 00:47:03,667 Sharon: view it as, we don't have the full picture that God has for us, but it doesn't 510 00:47:03,667 --> 00:47:10,000 Sharon: always make it easier to accept." Yeah, I can totally relate to these comments. 511 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,500 Anna: That whole thing of "not my will but your will" is just a really hard pill to 512 00:47:13,500 --> 00:47:17,000 Anna: swallow sometimes, isn't it? 513 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:22,080 Matt: It has this presupposition, doesn't it, that my will and your will aren't always 514 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:27,160 Matt: going to be the same thing. Which comes back to our point, right: that for Jesus 515 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,240 Matt: to transform you, sometimes he has to disrupt you. Submission and obedience — 516 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:37,320 Matt: the things that we don't really like to talk about in Christianity — that is 517 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:42,400 Matt: saying, "This is not about me, this is about you", which means there has to be a 518 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:47,480 Matt: difference in those two things. Everything you read, that God's ways are higher 519 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:52,560 Matt: than our ways, his thoughts are higher than our thoughts — that's okay. That's 520 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,640 Matt: the joy of it. I think it's when you get into this place of, "Yeah, I've nailed 521 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,720 Matt: this. God totally accepts everything I'm doing. Me and God", I just think that's 522 00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:07,800 Matt: dangerous thinking in many ways. Saying that — we were talking on Alpha the 523 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,880 Matt: other night. By the way, love Alpha. We're going to start a new Alpha in a 524 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,960 Matt: couple of weeks. If you're interested about the Christian faith and want to come 525 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,040 Matt: join us in Alpha, go to crowd.church — the website, www.crowd.church. Just fill 526 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:28,120 Matt: out the little registration form for Alpha on the website, and we'll get you on 527 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:33,200 Matt: the course in a couple of weeks. We were talking on Alpha — obviously there are 528 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,280 Matt: some people who are very new to the Christian faith, some people aren't 529 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:43,360 Matt: Christians yet, and they have some really interesting ideas about Jesus. They 530 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:48,440 Matt: don't necessarily always marry up to the ideas and thoughts that I have, but 531 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:53,520 Matt: it's not my job on Alpha to convince them to think the way that I think, or to 532 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,600 Matt: see Jesus the way that I see it, because I've been walking with Christ for 30 533 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:03,680 Matt: years. This is something that has happened over a period of time, and I've been 534 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:08,760 Matt: transformed, I think, by my walk with him. So it's not like you need to get 535 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,840 Matt: there tomorrow. This is back to your point about relationships — you get to know 536 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,920 Matt: people. But I think it's a daily challenge to say, "Not my will, but your will 537 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:24,000 Matt: be done." Thirty years later, it's still a challenge. 538 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,750 Sharon: And that prayer was originally prayed by Jesus, wasn't it, in the garden just 539 00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:31,500 Sharon: before he was going to get crucified? He knew he was going to be crucified, and 540 00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:35,250 Sharon: he was saying, "God, this is not what I want, but if this is what you want, then 541 00:49:35,250 --> 00:49:39,000 Sharon: I will do it." 542 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,800 Anna: Isn't it reassuring though, to know that even Jesus, who was God in human form, 543 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:48,600 Anna: also struggled with some of this stuff? As a human being, I find it really 544 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:53,400 Anna: reassuring. Of course we're going to struggle with this. Even Jesus found it 545 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,200 Anna: hard to submit to God's will when it was painful in his life, but he chose to do 546 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:03,000 Anna: it anyway because he knew there was a greater good that followed out of it. 547 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:08,500 Sharon: But yeah, it's not easy. So following God's way is not always the easiest, most 548 00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:14,000 Sharon: comfortable way, is it? I wanted to contrast that with something you said, 549 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:19,500 Sharon: because at the beginning of the talk you were talking about how your view of 550 00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:25,000 Sharon: Christianity was that it wasn't fun. God wasn't fun. 551 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,000 Matt: Jesus, the fun police. Yeah. 552 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,000 Sharon: Obviously you've changed your mind now. So what's your view on that? 553 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:34,656 Matt: Oh, it's radical fun. I mean, I wouldn't do this if it wasn't fun. I don't know 554 00:50:34,656 --> 00:50:40,312 Matt: if that's true — but I positively enjoy everything about my — I positively enjoy 555 00:50:40,312 --> 00:50:45,969 Matt: most things about my walk with God. I must clarify. What I perceived as Jesus 556 00:50:45,969 --> 00:50:51,625 Matt: robbing my fun, a lot of people think about, right? It's like, basically, you're 557 00:50:51,625 --> 00:50:57,281 Matt: not allowed to sin as a Christian. Well, you're not allowed to sin as any 558 00:50:57,281 --> 00:51:02,938 Matt: person, but anyway. You're not allowed to sin as a Christian, so you have to 559 00:51:02,938 --> 00:51:08,594 Matt: give up all the sins. And all the sins are the things that you want to do — 560 00:51:08,594 --> 00:51:14,250 Matt: they're all the things that are bad for you, but they're all the things that you 561 00:51:14,250 --> 00:51:19,906 Matt: enjoy. I had this conception that because I wasn't allowed to do those things as 562 00:51:19,906 --> 00:51:25,562 Matt: a Christian, therefore there would be no fun, because these were the things that 563 00:51:25,562 --> 00:51:31,219 Matt: I enjoyed doing. The reality of life is, whilst there is an element of truth to 564 00:51:31,219 --> 00:51:36,875 Matt: that — I'm not going to deny that. It's not like God said, "Oh, you can keep 565 00:51:36,875 --> 00:51:42,531 Matt: doing all of that, man." No, no, no, no, no. There were some things I definitely 566 00:51:42,531 --> 00:51:48,188 Matt: couldn't keep doing. But in place of that, what you get is so much bigger than 567 00:51:48,188 --> 00:51:53,844 Matt: what you give up. There is a choice where you say, "Not my will but your will be 568 00:51:53,844 --> 00:51:59,500 Matt: done. I will lay these things at your feet." But what he gives you is infinitely 569 00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:05,156 Matt: more. I might not always feel that, I might not always experience that, I might 570 00:52:05,156 --> 00:52:10,812 Matt: not even always think that's true, but the reality of it is, it is. What lies 571 00:52:10,812 --> 00:52:16,469 Matt: before us is greater than what lies behind us — all those sort of sentences. So 572 00:52:16,469 --> 00:52:22,125 Matt: what we give is nothing in terms of what we get. Jesus says in John 10:10, "I 573 00:52:22,125 --> 00:52:27,781 Matt: have come that you may have life, and have life in all its abundance." That 574 00:52:27,781 --> 00:52:33,438 Matt: Greek word there is *zoe*. It means this divine life — life as God has it. "I 575 00:52:33,438 --> 00:52:39,094 Matt: have come that you may have this life to the full" — life as God has it, this 576 00:52:39,094 --> 00:52:44,750 Matt: divine life, this abundant life. That doesn't mean everything you ever wanted in 577 00:52:44,750 --> 00:52:50,406 Matt: life. It doesn't mean an abundant bank account. It doesn't mean driving around 578 00:52:50,406 --> 00:52:56,062 Matt: in Ferraris. I mean, maybe for you it does, but for most people, it doesn't. It 579 00:52:56,062 --> 00:53:01,719 Matt: means life to the — life as God has. That is a goal worth chasing, right? "Do I 580 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:07,375 Matt: have this life, this abundant life, that is full of" — and the Bible uses these 581 00:53:07,375 --> 00:53:13,031 Matt: words over and over again — "joy and peace and contentment and godliness and 582 00:53:13,031 --> 00:53:18,688 Matt: faith and hope and love and all of those things?" Are they growing in me? If 583 00:53:18,688 --> 00:53:24,344 Matt: they are, that's a remarkable thing, isn't it? So whatever you give up is 584 00:53:24,344 --> 00:53:30,000 Matt: nothing in relation to what you get. 585 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:35,143 Sharon: I think sometimes we chase after those things because they do look attractive, 586 00:53:35,143 --> 00:53:40,286 Sharon: but it's to fill that hole in us that actually only God can fill. So the things 587 00:53:40,286 --> 00:53:45,429 Sharon: that we chase can be a bit more superficial. But when you reorientate to God's 588 00:53:45,429 --> 00:53:50,571 Sharon: way, actually he fulfils those deepest desires that we have. Not necessarily 589 00:53:50,571 --> 00:53:55,714 Sharon: always instantly. It's definitely been a process for me — and some harder times, 590 00:53:55,714 --> 00:54:00,857 Sharon: working through stuff, and digging up, you know, getting rid of all the dirt out 591 00:54:00,857 --> 00:54:06,000 Sharon: of my life. But worth it, though. 592 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,000 Matt: Definitely. Absolutely worth it. 593 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:13,500 Anna: I think you're absolutely right that a lot of the time, what we do — the 594 00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:19,000 Anna: behaviours that we sometimes cling to that aren't good for us, the sin patterns 595 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:24,500 Anna: in our lives — it is just about trying to find those places that God gives us 596 00:54:24,500 --> 00:54:30,000 Anna: freely. Those things like joy and peace and security and a sense of worth and 597 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:35,500 Anna: identity and "who am I?" and all of those things. It looks like just finding 598 00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:41,000 Anna: them in superficial, human, man-made ways that are so much more inferior than 599 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:46,500 Anna: what God can give. People go try to find that in sex and relationships and 600 00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:52,000 Anna: money, or power, or alcohol or drugs — whatever you're doing that is quite 601 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:57,500 Anna: short-term. But actually God's got the real thing, the real deal. It's like, 602 00:54:57,500 --> 00:55:03,000 Anna: yeah, sort of inferior. So when we cling to that — our sin — it strikes me that 603 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,500 Anna: it's just like the inferior version of what God gives us perfectly. The 604 00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:14,000 Anna: trade-off, actually, once you've tried it, is not that difficult. Such a good 605 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:19,500 Anna: point to let go of, because the real deal is so much better than the human 606 00:55:19,500 --> 00:55:25,000 Anna: inferior version. 607 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:33,000 Matt: Yeah. Very good point. Very well said. I'm aware of time. 608 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,000 Anna: Yeah, what's ticking off? Totally not. 609 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,000 Sharon: Oh yeah, it's getting late, isn't it? 610 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,000 Matt: So we just go to Live Land, doesn't it? Just cracking on. We should probably say 611 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,000 Matt: — I'm sorry, you crack on, I'm not hosting tonight. 612 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:51,000 Anna: I mean, I'm hosting tonight, but I'm not entirely sure what's happening next 613 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:57,000 Anna: week. We've got the next episode next week, haven't we, of this series? 614 00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,000 Sharon: Tell us who's on. We've got Dave Connolly speaking to us next week, carrying on 615 00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:05,000 Sharon: in the series. And in theory, we have Will and Mike hosting. In theory. Because 616 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:09,000 Sharon: sometimes it changes, doesn't it? 617 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:14,000 Matt: It does. It can change. But I think they'll be okay. I'm just pulling up the 618 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:19,000 Matt: rota for next week so I can tell you what Dave's going to talk about. 619 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:24,000 Sharon: And while he's looking for that — we're going to finish the livestream any 620 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:29,000 Sharon: moment, but we're going to carry on in — is it Google Meet? Yes, it is. And 621 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:34,000 Sharon: hopefully the link will appear in the comments. So come and join us. 622 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,500 Matt: If Dan's doing his job, the comments — is it in there? Well done. Is he doing 623 00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:39,000 Matt: his job? 624 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:43,500 Sharon: So yeah, just come and join us. We're very informal. Just chat, say hi, see how 625 00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:48,000 Sharon: you are. 626 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,750 Matt: Yeah, it'd be good to see you. Next week, Dave is talking about the woman at the 627 00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:55,500 Matt: well — John chapter 4, the story of the woman at the well, one of the very 628 00:56:55,500 --> 00:56:59,250 Matt: famous stories in the Gospels. So do come join us for that. It's going to be 629 00:56:59,250 --> 00:57:03,000 Matt: epic. 630 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:18,758 Anna: Awesome. That's it from us tonight. Come and join us in the Meet afterwards. If 631 00:57:18,758 --> 00:57:34,516 Anna: you don't, get in touch with us in the week, have a look at the Alpha course, 632 00:57:34,516 --> 00:57:50,274 Anna: drop us a line if you've got any prayer or any questions, any requests. Find all 633 00:57:50,274 --> 00:58:06,033 Anna: our details on the website. Keep in touch, and have a great week.