Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,

Evan: back again with another TV discussion from the left.

Evan: This week on the show, we are rounding out our Severance trilogy of episodes

Evan: covering the final two, episodes 9 and 10 of Season 2.

Evan: And back, of course, to round it out, I have Smirk and Red. Thank you for coming

Evan: back one final time on Severance.

red: Thank you for having me.

smirk: Yeah thank you i'm a little i'm it's bittersweet because i'm sad the show we're

smirk: gonna have to probably wait like what two years who knows 70.

Evan: They they claimed i sexually it's funny you said that i saw an article that

Evan: said they've already started pre-production and they're hoping to release it

Evan: in middle of next year so like a year from now wow okay it was it was mostly because of

Evan: strike, I think, that led to all the delays from last season.

red: That's kind of what happened with most shows. But, and also in like the era

red: of streaming, they just sometimes release things like two years later.

smirk: It seemed like viewership and interest in the show picked up even more with like the second season.

smirk: So maybe they were able to get a little more money and like.

red: You know get it done quicker yeah.

Evan: And also it seems like if

Evan: you're this if you're the studio or netflix or apple whatever you probably don't

Evan: mind there being a longer delay then they could just throw a bunch of other

Evan: shows at you that are you know coming out like they have a million shows so

Evan: you know may as well make will not cancel their apple subscription or whatever

Evan: because they claim they lost like a ton of money i saw some absurd number.

smirk: But i guess they do that though And somebody else was saying,

smirk: like, it's not really about it's it's not really significant for Apple to lose

smirk: money because they've had Apple TV for how long now? Hasn't been that long.

Evan: Oh, God. Like, you mean like the service like Apple TV Plus?

smirk: Yeah.

Evan: Five years?

smirk: Yeah. And I guess typically with maybe the exception of Netflix,

smirk: but even then, probably not.

smirk: They don't usually make money for like the first many years.

Evan: That's true. It's not like Apple is not making like gobs of money.

Evan: It's like, oh, poor Apple Plus TV. They lost a billion dollars, they said.

smirk: Yeah, they'll be okay. It's like pocket change. They'll be all right, which makes me sick.

Evan: Yeah, I mean, it says that they invested $5 billion per year in content since

Evan: its launch in, it doesn't say what year.

Evan: But yeah, I mean, I guess it only accounts to 1% of streaming services compared

Evan: to Netflix, which is almost 8.5.

Evan: So, like, it's a pretty small amount, but.

smirk: Yeah, well, they don't have as much content. as the other ones.

Evan: No but it's really good like yeah it's like curated tv shows are really good

Evan: so i have a question about the like i sort of discussion do we want to just

Evan: talk about like episode nine and then ten or just kind of talk about the the

Evan: events kind of like as one big movie kind of thing and it's it.

smirk: Felt like a movie to me because i watched him right in a row again today it

smirk: felt like that but i'm good with whatever.

Evan: They feel like they almost could have been, like this last episode we were talking

Evan: last time about how it was a really long episode, like almost the length of a movie.

Evan: And then the previous one was about 40 minutes. So it's like a two hour.

Evan: And it really did, to me, kind of all feel like a movie because the previous

Evan: episode was kind of that not related, you know, kind of we were talking about

Evan: kind of a weird side episode.

Evan: And this one kind of just brought everything that's happened for basically two

Evan: seasons, like all together. So.

red: Yeah.

Evan: What did you both think of the finale? I feel like some of our predictions were actually correct.

smirk: Well, Red like 100% nailed it. Like you were one time, I hope you went back

smirk: on Reddit or wherever and told all those.

red: I do, you guys. I'm not even petty. I just know they remember that I'm right and they're wrong.

smirk: So they better know it because you nailed it. Yeah, you were 100% right.

Evan: I think we both, I think we all, I don't remember one of us in particular.

Evan: i think we also sort of agreed that the ending of the whole we

Evan: maybe we didn't get like the very ending where i was a little bit surprised

Evan: we can get to that too but you know

Evan: seeing gemma and mark kind of

Evan: finally meeting and like being together again and then you know of course they

Evan: weren't going to just live happily ever after in severance you know universe

Evan: it has to have some selfishness that mark apparently has because he's just a

Evan: is he just a dick is that just i.

smirk: Just i have so many feelings about this.

red: Um i do too yeah.

smirk: And i don't know if you.

red: I fear if we don't go in like an order we're gonna talk almost all about episode

red: 10 and not about season or episode 9 at all.

Evan: Okay yeah.

red: You're right so that i don't really care but for the like sanctity of the viewer

red: being able to understand like maybe the order to some extent we should start

red: with nine because ten to me i could talk all day.

smirk: Yeah no i think you're right because i do have a lot of thoughts about nine

smirk: specifically because it was set up so much of what happens in ten.

Evan: Well it also really builds the

Evan: the thing that you didn't really get at all in this season except for like little

Evan: bits here and there is understanding sort of like the egan family and sort of

Evan: their stake in all of this and how invested they are And also that it's really

Evan: weird to eat eggs cut in tiny pieces.

Evan: And also the weirdest line I thought of the whole show was Egan saying to Helena.

red: I wish you'd eat it raw.

smirk: Just don't ever. Yeah. Like what? I so badly want that man to be bloody gold on camera.

smirk: Like I just want him to be absolutely destroyed. He's just such a weird husk

smirk: of a person. He's just so gross.

red: He is pretty disturbing to bear witness to. Yeah.

Evan: Well, I saw a theory for the last one aired, or maybe it was after,

Evan: that I read in retrospect,

Evan: saying that some people thought that even in the last two episodes,

Evan: that it was actually Helena in The Severed Floor and not Heli again.

Evan: And I don't buy that at all. I don't.

red: So, for what episodes did you say that was for?

Evan: The last two. Like, the last, like, at the end. Yeah, so.

red: I think I talked to Smirk about this. Sorry, go ahead.

Evan: No, I think it was even before that, like when they like sleep together to an

Evan: episode six. I don't remember.

red: Oh, OK. So she they never I mean, like they do because like Irving's literally about to kill her.

red: So like they they do. But I thought that the last episode was Helena again.

red: And the actress herself actually was like, stop, because that's not true.

red: It was Heli. so yeah i want i was being naive and i wanted to like think wishfully

red: but even i forget her name i think it's brit or something like that i don't

red: know um her actress was like nope that's not true so.

smirk: Which i appreciate because so often they'll be like well i don't know i don't

smirk: know yeah shut up just like tell me give me one thing there's so many question

smirk: marks just like get rid of one well they like to yeah i.

Evan: Mean some shows really like to feed the you know the vague nature and all the

Evan: theories and here they like they like to do that but at the same time they also

Evan: want people to maybe not just i don't know i don't want to say like ruin it

Evan: but in a way like ruin it with like too many stupid theories.

smirk: Yeah and i think that's good that

smirk: they don't like overly encourage because it is it is exhausting and

smirk: we've talked about like the incredibly like goofy

smirk: theories about like oh so and so is actually someone else's father and it's

smirk: really this guy and it's like shut off like why do you think that you're just

smirk: imagining like the weirdest thing that it could be like based on nothing yeah

smirk: nonsense but yeah the egg thing was super weird um he tells,

smirk: oh no it's later on that he says it to he says it to her eddie but um well.

Evan: Then after that is when uh miss huang has to just like ends her end of her fellowship

Evan: and has to smash her little like ring toss game it's like.

red: That shit made me so sad it was a.

smirk: Fuck and.

red: I watched that i think i I watched that right after we had our episode where

red: we're talking about child labor and possibly pretty much, you know, figured it out.

red: But like I was almost near tears and I was like, God damn, I wish I wish post

red: was a thing on this podcast so I could just bleep all my awful remarks about Miss Wong.

red: Poor little baby girl. We'll miss you forever. I'm so sorry.

smirk: It's it's sad and i think she's a good example of the way that like we can get

smirk: really frustrated with people who seem to have like bought into very harmful

smirk: like ideologies and and are just kind of,

smirk: there's sort of an extension and symptomatic of like greater issues

smirk: like she's she was annoying and weird and like why is this child here but also

smirk: like she's literally kid like that sucks like it's understandable to be like

smirk: really frustrated with her and angry and like kind of hate her a little bit

smirk: but also yeah that broke my heart too when she had a she had a smash her ring

smirk: toss game this is like the only thing she had literally.

red: Only thing and what's so funny is i was literally on a different podcast today

red: talking about like, you know, people can be like insufferable in crisis and

red: it's not their fault because they're literally in crisis.

red: And I would consider a Miss Huang situation to be a crisis.

red: So even if I was like, oh my God, I can't stand you, the real world application

red: would be like, maybe we should save this child, right?

red: So, you know, I'm eating my words a little here but children in the world real

red: world lumen society deserve nothing but unconditional support even if they're

red: doing fuck shit like miss hong.

Evan: She's been like brought into this space

Evan: by her parents presumably although

Evan: i also had a theory that maybe she

Evan: doesn't have parents or know who they are and somehow

Evan: she was like adopted by this like by uh lumen and that's why they have the birthing

Evan: center we see later in the end of the episode episode nine where like i don't

Evan: know like we also learned that heli is not you know she has i don't know half

Evan: sisters and brothers and things right don't they mention that she has um.

red: Egan himself is like i have squire private families or whatever dumbass lingo

red: and for a second and like took me a second like did he just say he just like

red: has random fucking kids and it was helena's any that he was like yeah you're the best.

Evan: One yeah.

smirk: When he oh my god yeah and that's we'll talk about that too because that whole

smirk: that whole interaction was crazy um i yeah i think this one like that's,

smirk: interaction between him and helena

smirk: at the beginning and then later

smirk: on when he ends up talking to heli and then him at the end like if if we didn't

smirk: have the whole like weird cult vibe like this very bizarre sort of like it feels

smirk: like they're trying to cultivate a sort of humanity,

smirk: that doesn't exist currently like i just i'm i'm trying to put into words like

smirk: what do you guys think ultimately they are trying to do with this like.

Evan: The goal of what is cold harbor like what are they going to use it.

smirk: For yeah because because we don't get to see like what exactly like

smirk: obviously she's going to be dead but like i'm just i'm trying

smirk: to figure out like how that ties into their whole weird cult thing like

smirk: he's a lot

smirk: of the way that he speaks about people and the temp

smirk: and the cure talks about like the tempers and everything it's sort

smirk: of like the original sin thing right like it's it's all the things that are

smirk: like wrong with people kind of and you have to tame them and fix them so like

smirk: he's not capable of really loving his children in any real sense because he

smirk: thinks they're inherently bad like humanity's just bad at the core so,

smirk: what the fuck like what are they what is that like what's the goal i just i

smirk: don't know i just need to know if you guys have some idea of what that might

smirk: be because it's bothering me.

red: Um i still like your question is what's the goal of the severance.

smirk: Yeah like as far as it pertains to their weird culty thing okay.

red: So for me maybe this is like too

red: much explanation for it to make sense even as a theory but like

red: we talked about it i think on the last episode that like cults need capital

red: and one way they do that in the real world is by like welfare fraud like everybody

red: gets on welfare and then the cult leader is just like capital um not that's

red: not really how that works.

red: But you get what I'm saying anyway. They have money. And,

red: I kind of viewed the severance as that. I still am kind of basing my theory

red: off of they're trying to perfect the severance to sell it, and they need money

red: as an ever-growing profit, as a capitalist cult.

red: And the severance is just a part of that. I feel like they have their hands in everything, right?

red: The birthing experience, I still feel like that falls in line with this concept

red: of Like, you can sever to have birth, buy it today.

red: Like, you can sever to go to the dentist because we saw Jim at the dentist.

red: Like, I, maybe that's just me, like, analyzing it too much, like, as a communist.

red: But I feel like it still has to be, like, very tightly wound into,

red: like, a critique of capitalism.

Evan: I think all of that is correct. But then I also have part of me says the aspect

Evan: of them being very like godlike and, you know, kind of revered.

Evan: And they have these weird paintings, you know, that Burke throughout season

Evan: one is, you know, restoring and putting up.

Evan: And they have this very weird way of looking at their themselves,

Evan: like in the in the world as, you know, a Jesus Christ or godlike figure.

Evan: It seems like they want to control people in a way that would be godlike.

Evan: So I think at the end of the day, it comes down to what you're saying,

Evan: Red, is this is to make money through all of these things, but at the same time

Evan: also control people in a way that shouldn't be able to be controlled.

Evan: They're doing like, what's the fucking government test they did for mind control?

Evan: I'm blanking on the name.

red: MKUltra?

Evan: It's like they're MK. I think we even said this in the first episode.

Evan: Like, they're very doing MKUltra type of shit.

Evan: You know, they just want to do something that is so insane that they will be

Evan: revered and, you know, looked at.

Evan: And the governments will buy their, you know, their tool for government shit.

Evan: And people will do it for, you know, dentists.

Evan: And everyone will want to be severed to do things.

red: But you see it more in like a holy God way.

red: So like, could you mesh your theory with like the severance is so that they

red: it's a tier, a tier system, the science of it all severance is a part of like

red: making cure clones then.

Evan: In some way, though, I think I think that maybe the God aspect is just an excuse, you know.

red: OK, I can see that.

Evan: So like that's like how they're making it like they're doing

Evan: all these things for this power but at the end of

Evan: the day they're just controlled and they're led by their

Evan: need to make capital for themselves dominate yeah

Evan: like imperialism basically i mean

Evan: i think so i i think it's like one is

Evan: kind of an excuse for the other and it's kind of the whole episode like the

Evan: weird interaction you mentioned uh later on when heli sees her father again

Evan: and it's all it's just so fucking creepy he's so creepy the little like the

Evan: is it the last episode where like there's the the animatronic one of him too like moving around oh.

smirk: The cure thing.

Evan: Yeah that's.

red: Fair though and.

Evan: Yes okay.

red: Also i feel like the god thing is like kind of a front too because god to them

red: is cure right but then is his name jame yeah.

smirk: Like a singular jame.

Evan: Okay well.

red: The one singular jam is um if and correct me if i'm wrong because y'all should

red: remember this because you watched it today he seems to like not really love kira like he like,

red: like talked about Kier in a way that he was like very upset and angry and that's

red: how he was like comparing Helly to him is and that Helly is like super upset

red: and angry her and he is do y'all remember that I.

Evan: Feel like he's see I think it's like he saw some sort of divert diversion or

Evan: like move of the organ like he wants the he wants ultimate control and to be

Evan: remembered for what he did for Kier's name, not what, like, Kier did before him.

red: Not what Kier did. Okay, so you see, okay, that makes sense.

red: So it's his own personal grievance.

Evan: It seems like it. I mean, I don't know for sure, but the actor is good.

smirk: Yeah, no, I can see that. It's like, he's like in the shadow of this,

smirk: like, mythical figure of Kier, and he doesn't really like, everything that they're

smirk: doing now will be his legacy.

red: Yeah, so he's got to, like, really take it over the top with the separate.

Evan: And according to this, he's the eighth CEO of the company?

Evan: i forgot that so it's like pretty you know

Evan: he wants i'm sure if you know i don't know if they

Evan: ever describe what each ceo did and what their accomplishments part

Evan: what he wants his to be like the ultimate accomplishment like

Evan: cold harbor is essentially to

Evan: them as they describe it as like the ultimate ending game

Evan: for lumen as a company like yeah okay they made some like watches

Evan: or like astronaut food in their you know

Evan: vending machines but like this is like the culmination of

Evan: and he wants his name to be you know

Evan: synonymous with him but we also

Evan: get oh sorry go ahead i was the other part of this like the middle part of this

Evan: episode is we also get more of irving and we learn about you know he meets with

Evan: bert and i think we also see some of the investigative notes,

Evan: that uh what's the guy's name who like searches through him drummond oh then

Evan: maybe that's the previous episode but we see him like we see all of these you

Evan: know his uh notes that he has and he ends up going for a ride you know with

Evan: with Bert and Bert is sort of saving him like what do you think Bert did before he.

smirk: Seemed inordinately like a little offended but mostly just kind of resigning

smirk: himself to the reality that the note's true like he was he was a goon for Lumen like he,

smirk: disappeared people and he did their dirty work a lot of the time and i think

smirk: he's come to terms with the sort of person he was because of the fact that his

smirk: innie was able to have this connection,

smirk: and um he decides to take him away because that's that's his sort of redemption

smirk: like he was hoping he would have it as an innie and he but that and he doesn't

smirk: really exist anymore yeah he didn't even as an innie, he just couldn't get there.

smirk: But yeah, I think he was definitely, he was like a,

smirk: He's a bad dude. He did some bad stuff. And we talked about that in the last

smirk: one, too. We were like, oh, he probably was like a really shady guy.

smirk: They talked about his younger days getting up to some stuff.

smirk: And I think he kind of told us what that stuff was. Not good.

red: Yeah.

Evan: And also, something I remember, maybe it was from the first season,

Evan: is I think that Bert had become severed because of his church,

Evan: like saying that it would almost make him

Evan: like ascend to heaven whereas out he

Evan: might not so like he could do something inside i'm sure

Evan: like the lutheran church is probably like infiltrated by like lumen

Evan: or something like you know to recruit people or something but that

Evan: also then goes back to like the very godly aspect of things

Evan: i don't know it's like this weird thing but to me it

Evan: seems like he was bringing people to like the birthing place

Evan: or taking someone somewhere or you know like a parent a

Evan: mother of one of the people who has a child at the birthing center and

Evan: it's like taking her away somewhere to like you know be chopped up or something

Evan: and i don't know i don't know why chopped up came to mind but something i think

Evan: of uh you know um what is the actor um oh christopher walken like i just think

Evan: of him like other movies where he's more of a like a bad guy in this he's,

Evan: soft-spoken, you know, family man.

red: Yeah.

Evan: Yeah. Like, what else, um, what other crazy things sort of happen in this?

Evan: I guess this is also when, you know, Mark's sister calls Cobell to kind of get

Evan: help because he's, his, like, reintegration is, you know, all messed up, and I don't know.

Evan: Like, what do you, like, do you think that the last two episodes sort of,

Evan: uh, are Cobell rebelling against Lumen, or it's her trying to,

Evan: like, gain favor to then be go.

smirk: Back i think she wants she wants uh she's she's

smirk: pissed and she's mostly angry for herself

smirk: because as we learned in the previous episode she

smirk: invented the whole procedure the whole the whole

smirk: method by which severance is possible and she never got the recognition

smirk: she deserved and she's also been unceremoniously cast

smirk: aside so i think

smirk: she's i think the uh the bloom was off the

smirk: rose and it's interesting that as she's coming to this realization

smirk: we see um miss huang

smirk: like very much in the same position that

smirk: she was in when she was that same age probably

smirk: and you know being initiated into

smirk: this whole thing and just signing and having

smirk: her i don't even know if she can really consent to it because she's a kid

smirk: but her life is signed away in service of lumen

smirk: um so i did appreciate that juxtaposition a lot um yeah i don't think i don't

smirk: know i think her i think her motives are pretty much pure to the extent that

smirk: like she's not secretly i don't think she's like secretly helping lumen in any

smirk: way i don't think they have anything to gain from what she's doing right now yeah.

red: I think that is pretty much over like cobel

red: slaving away for lumen that seems like kind of a dead hope and dream of lumen

red: probably um but i don't think that she's being entirely like forthcoming about

red: her reason i agree with smirk that it's it's largely selfish um and,

red: otherwise like i think she is helping mark but it's just because it's she's

red: not going to get the recognition of like this was her severance procedure almost

red: like she didn't get to kill jimma so that's what she's upset about basically

red: if you really want to boil it down to something like simple that's kind of what it is.

Evan: Literally actually she wanted

Evan: to like see the it's almost like you almost see

Evan: the the uh like infighting

Evan: between jame and you know cobel as each wanting to gain like credit for the

Evan: things they did you know and neither of them is going to get credit it seemed

Evan: because it doesn't well doesn't seem to well we'll get to the last episode in a few You're good.

red: You're good. It's so hard to continue this off.

smirk: Dylan's wife tells him that she kissed his zinni.

red: I was kind of shocked that she told him. I feel like even as a viewer,

red: knowing Dylan's outie, he wasn't really going to love that.

smirk: Yeah.

Evan: Is that infidelity?

red: Yes, technically.

smirk: Because it's a different person, right? I mean, if we answer that question in

smirk: the affirmative, then we're acknowledging

smirk: that these are fully separate people. which I think they are.

red: I think so. I think it's technically infidelity, but I think the better question

red: I would ask, just because I'm nosy, is if this was y'all's partners,

red: would you consider infidelity?

Evan: So if you're Dylan and you found, like, your wife told you or whatever that they had.

red: Like, in your current relationship or if you're not in one previous whatever, like.

Evan: I think it is, actually, because.

red: Like, would you be offended? So you'd be like, I cannot believe you're fucking with my Annie.

smirk: I would be, I would be a little, I would definitely be sad.

red: Okay, that's fair.

smirk: But it would also make me kind of, I feel like I would like to think what I

smirk: would do is kind of, like, turn that.

smirk: um turn it inward and kind of figure out like what got to this point because

smirk: if it's it's it's like how why are they looking for me but not me.

red: I think it's redeemable right like they didn't go fuck a random like it's still

red: you for all like it's not but it is and so i think it'd be forgivable a little

red: weird though i bet you're kind of weird for that yeah.

smirk: It's like a little bizarre because that person is functionally like yes they're

smirk: an adult but also they're kind of like.

red: They're like a little baby it's like she's like seven how could you do this

red: okay sorry that's weird but like dylan really is only like a few years old technically as any but.

Evan: He also created this other he created

Evan: his any you know or i guess you could say he accepted the creation of this other

Evan: person and he could also use it it seems like he's also comes to the understanding

Evan: that his like audi doesn't have like this confidence in these like aspects of his life that.

red: He wishes.

Evan: He had but his innie does.

red: And so forgetting shit.

Evan: And not doing you know.

red: Okay not a deadbeat but like largely not a deadbeat because of his innie yeah,

red: Dylan's out he really doesn't do anything it seems.

smirk: Yeah the only time we see him he's like not remembering to do certain.

red: Things and then you know he's.

smirk: Like sitting around while the kids are.

red: Like if i was friends with his wife i'd be like i think you're gonna have to

red: leave him like that's kind of the kind of stuff i'd be telling her so.

smirk: Yeah yeah he's not a great partner i think he does want to be and i think he

smirk: uh i think maybe this is weirdly like the wake-up call he needs to.

red: Do you think so because the vibe i get from dylan's audi is like this is devastating

red: and tragic and it is a wake-up call to some extent but he's not going to do

red: any better like that's the downfall of his audi is like there's all of these

red: pressures like you've got to do better and like he just doesn't.

smirk: Yeah i i worry that you're right and you might be i uh i don't know but i'm

smirk: hope i'm hoping for the best and.

red: That's why i feel like that's the crux of his character is like his any is good

red: and his audi just is so like meh that like he exists to be there and make you

red: challenge that thought sorry evan well.

Evan: I was saying and it's interesting because like he tries to then again quit like

Evan: internally he tries to quit but his outies you know won't let him because he

Evan: probably realizes out he's like the only good thing about him.

red: About him yeah right isn't that fucked imagine

red: like because it's you but it's not you like that the any

red: develops this whole different existence in terms

red: of a personality and all of that so they have your body it is really sad and

red: season 10 i think is an interesting like the ending sorry episode 10 the ending

red: of it is quite literally there to like our and he's whole persons but anyway

red: i'm getting ahead of myself well we're.

Evan: Close to that.

red: Yeah but it is really sad though to

red: see dylan's out he like struggle in the ways that his any it's like so flawless

red: and effortless for him um but maybe he does have the self-awareness to do better

red: because of that like conversation he has with his zinni where he's like you

red: are good i am bad you have to stay alive because you're good and i'm bad yeah.

smirk: He needs to know that that possibility exists for him that he could be that

smirk: person and maybe there's an argument to be made that they're the two halves

smirk: of dylan the innie and the outie are a really good example of,

smirk: how environment and your conditions and everything can really set the tone for,

smirk: what sort of person you're able to

smirk: be like his and he has very different

smirk: choices he basically has no choices right like he

smirk: doesn't you know he doesn't have any real autonomy um

smirk: but he's there and he gets shit done and his audi i think more than anything

smirk: he just he he doesn't like he he's failed so often and just floundered so much,

smirk: that he...

smirk: Yeah, he needs to have him there, because otherwise it's like,

smirk: well, no, I could never fucking do anything.

Evan: Yeah, that's true. And then sort of like, I mean, to get to the last episode,

Evan: you know, the sort of the final piece of, well, actually, I want to mention

Evan: one thing that I thought was really funny when Milchick is like calling Mark

Evan: to try to get him to come to work.

Evan: And he's like, you know, coming up with first like excuses and he like gives

Evan: him like the, you know, I've seen a day, you know, kind of thing.

Evan: and it's like that's a very uh i

Evan: feel like most people who've worked most jobs

Evan: could probably relate to you know their boss making like wanting them to come

Evan: in when it's like they're not supposed to or you know in this case he was supposed

Evan: to but like on a day off and he's like no i need a day and he's like he actually

Evan: it's except you know milchuk accepts this because they desperately need him

Evan: where i think in probably reality it doesn't usually go that way.

red: No and it's i think

red: to me it just like i don't think they exist

red: to be this way but i perceive it

red: this way that this is just another reason that marks

red: out he is so like out of touch with reality because what the fuck do you mean

red: you're just gonna tell your boss like i just can't like i just have to not come

red: today that's like never like you're making up fake dead relatives before you're

red: sincerely telling your boss like i just don't want to come to work today like

red: let's get so you're like literally like

red: photoshopping like a broken ac unit in your house or the positive line on the

red: covid test whatever like there's no way you're just gonna tell them it pisses

red: me off but to be fair i'm just like have such a bad taste about mark right now

red: that everything he did i'm like so stupid like you should have done this instead yeah.

smirk: Yeah but point okay oh i just i just wanted to say it was is Devour of Feculents.

smirk: That was really nice to see.

smirk: Because Milchak is such a complicated character.

red: Oh, so complicated. It was good to see him stick up for himself.

smirk: Yeah.

Evan: What we were saying, I think, in the last one, is that he's...

Evan: You know, he is, you know, also sort of brainwashed and brought into this thing

Evan: where he sort of has no way out now. He's sort of stuck living this.

Evan: I think he probably has the self-awareness and recognition that some of the

Evan: things he's doing are probably really fucked up. But he doesn't really.

Evan: He's convinced himself that it's okay for, like, the greater good,

Evan: you know, in quotes or whatever. So you feel bad for him.

red: You do, and then you don't. Like, when he made Miss Huang destroy the toy,

red: like, that just felt like he was in a bad mood, so he wanted to abuse a child.

red: And I hated that.

Evan: Well, it says in the handbook, I think, that you have to, like,

Evan: make a material sacrifice.

red: Oh, fuck. So it's not even him again. It's just his general aura is always, like, punishment.

red: And I just, that's where I felt, like, fall short in my empathy for him. Sorry, go ahead.

Evan: No, but that's like what, that's what Lumen's entire, you know,

Evan: severance, you know, handbook really seems to push on.

Evan: It's, you know, punishment to correct behavior that they need for themselves.

Evan: And in most jobs, you know, the punishment isn't quite the same as,

Evan: you know, this is like magnified to an extreme, you know, going into a room

Evan: and having to repeat mantras into like a,

Evan: you know, this crazy ass shit. Like, that's not what they're doing at a real job.

Evan: You know, they might dock your pay or, like, you know, get your overtime.

red: You may just, like, you know, become homeless, lose your health insurance, you know.

red: Like, I don't think it's too extreme, quite honestly. Like, I know it's,

red: like, in a different reality of what happens.

red: But, like, if you mess up enough at work, like, that could literally be the

red: difference between you having a home again or not. Like, that's kind of fucking crazy, right?

smirk: Yeah, very small carrot and very large stick, basically.

smirk: Because the carrot is survival. and or in their case like a weird sex party

smirk: thing if they're lucky and then,

smirk: The stick is, you don't fucking exist anymore.

Evan: So the end of the last of episode nine is, you know, Devin pretending to be

Evan: pregnant to get into smuggling.

Evan: Mark S to, or not Mark S, Mark to the birthing center, which is also super weird.

Evan: And we get maybe one of the most bizarre, I don't know, 10 minutes of this show, I think,

Evan: ever, where we have Mark S talking to his Audi through a video camera where

Evan: he like goes in and out of like the deck at the birthing center.

Evan: And it's just, you know, it's funny how at the beginning they're like watching

Evan: the entire clips or like they're longer and then they just come,

Evan: like they slowly get shorter and shorter.

Evan: And, you know, Mark S basically tells him to go to also eat shit.

Evan: Yeah. And that team must have been hard to fill also have to say.

smirk: Yeah it was really good i i was super excited to see them actually get a chance

smirk: to like talk to each other you know me.

red: Too i didn't for like a split second i didn't think it was gonna go as bad as

red: it did but it pretty quickly like delved into just straight chaos which i'm

red: not shocked because it's mark so it's both iterations of him which are both unruly and upsetting.

smirk: It's just i feel like neither of them are really fully grasping the reality

smirk: of the situation not at all but it's it's more understandable for mark s who

smirk: is again functioning like a brand new human being it's like a teenager yeah like of course,

smirk: he is gonna be a little i don't know maybe come across as like petulant or something but,

smirk: one of the first things he is what happens to us and they just the fact that

smirk: they don't really have a solid answer for him besides reintegration which like

smirk: let's be real it's kind of like he's.

smirk: Being resorbed into this other person like he has every right to be very skeptical

smirk: of that procedure and what it means for him as a human being and you know a

smirk: person in his own in his own right like,

smirk: i think this episode and that

smirk: conversation really shows that like

smirk: even everything mark is doing he wasn't really

smirk: on board with the he wasn't

smirk: really interested in a lot of this in the reintegration or

smirk: anything until he found

smirk: out that his wife was alive and the way he misrepresents his

smirk: motivations for reintegrating to mark

smirk: s like even though they've never met you're still

smirk: very much talking to yourself and i feel like his bullshit detector was going

smirk: off because like there's no fucking way you're doing this for me

smirk: because of how i've been treated correct so like

smirk: the innies spend like hours and days like wondering about their

smirk: outies and what their lives are like what they do and who

smirk: or what they love and like mark s in this

smirk: conversation i think is realizing mark doesn't really do

smirk: that so much like he's just doesn't really consider him as a person so yeah

smirk: he's got every right to be pissed and yes like big picture what the hell are

smirk: you gonna do what's your end game like you're being a little bit like intense and and not fully like.

smirk: As we see later, like, what is the plan? You know, like, what you want to happen

smirk: can't possibly, but I get where he's coming from.

smirk: And yeah, that whole thing really made me hate Mark a lot.

red: I hate his Audi a lot more than I hate his any, because of how he misrepresents

red: what's going on. Like, I agree wholeheartedly with that.

red: I also think that the moment that he called Heli, Helene, I was like,

red: what the fuck are you even doing?

red: Now you're just fighting with a version of yourself that's already like high

red: emotion feels like you're asking him to sacrifice himself for you and he doesn't

red: really even know you so like i don't know the way that he went about it was too,

red: the word intense definitely like a correct observation

red: like way too intense way too much and i also

red: one thing i really hated about both versions of them is there's never

red: like a why like his any isn't like why

red: is this happening and why the fuck did his audi not mention pd

red: to his any like that wouldn't be important to his any considering

red: that was his any's best fucking friend like his audi was so bad at doing what

red: could have been done because he was also being incredibly fucking selfish which

red: is the issue with mark is like i think you see it reflected so well when he's

red: having to argue with himself that both versions of himself tend to be like very selfish.

Evan: I mean, I agree with all that, but to be the stupid devil's advocate,

Evan: Mark's initial decision to do what he did to become severed came out of losing

Evan: his wife and being in pain and thinking that this is going to be his way out of this,

Evan: or who knows what they convinced him this would be like, or what their plan was,

Evan: how long before they've decided what they were going to do to build this,

Evan: you know, Cold Harbor or whatever.

Evan: Can you then not blame him because he's in, I mean, I guess it's now been a couple of years. So he's,

Evan: Maybe you can't just use grief as a crutch, but he's messed up from all of this.

Evan: That doesn't take away, though, I think, from the fact that he is a selfish dick.

red: I don't think he was always selfish. I think that when we see him with Gemma,

red: he's clearly capable of being in a loving, happy adult relationship,

red: which requires selflessness.

red: I think Gemma's death, yes, makes him have all of these piss-poor attributes,

red: but I just don't feel that bad for him. Um, like maybe it's cruel of me to be so apathetic.

red: And if these were real people, I'd probably have a lot more of a nuanced take about it.

red: But like, considering it's a TV show, I want my, I want my brain to go burr

red: after two seasons of brain not going burr because brain sad because show sad.

red: so like just one good thing please

red: and we couldn't even like mark is just he's

red: so insufferable and there's just

red: maybe maybe i need to let me

red: not say that i don't want to jinx myself but maybe i'll never understand

red: it because i haven't lost a spouse maybe there are people that watch the

red: show that have felt that grief they're like no i completely get

red: it because while i was watching it i kind of

red: sided with his outie more and that i was like panicking on

red: his behalf like he wants his wife back so badly why

red: can't we just let this fucking happen even when

red: i was watching the camcorder stuff i was like i just know this is not going

red: to end how i expected it to end so i don't know i get what you're saying evan

red: like you're not even playing devil's advocate like the whole point of the end

red: of the episode 10 is to humanize the any so and naturally we should also humanize

red: the outie that the any was born from like.

smirk: Like none of this is fair like they've been there in impossible situations in,

smirk: Right. I think you said in the last one that grief is disabling and it's also

smirk: a very intense pain to lose somebody like that.

smirk: Like I can't even I can't imagine like and pain also makes people act like assholes.

smirk: It really it brings out your worst attributes and you lash out and you do things

smirk: that just don't make any sense.

smirk: And I think that all of that pain is a lot of what's driving Mark to act the

smirk: way he does. So, yeah, I do think he's a dick and I hate him a little bit more after this episode.

smirk: But also, yeah, sure. Like there's I can see, like understand why to an extent.

red: I can understand, especially because it's not normal grief either.

red: Like he grieved. He's still grieving and poorly, mind you. Like he should absolutely go to therapy.

red: Right. But like grieving piss poorly years later, not doing well.

red: And then all of this was for fucking nothing because his wife is literally just trapped in a basement.

red: so like that would actually i

red: think i would lose my mind like really just lock

red: me up because i can't do this i can't so i

red: get it i do um and maybe i feel

red: like i do this a lot on this podcast with this show specifically is i'll

red: listen back and one minute i'll be like i fucking hate that guy and

red: then someone will be like yeah but he's a guy and i'm like yeah you know you're

red: right he is just a guy like i can't i don't know if they're it's such a testament

red: to the writing of the characters because they are so hard to like hate they're

red: just so full people and so it's there it's just you have to have a nuanced take.

Evan: This is like unrelated to mark but just because i want to

Evan: because we were talking about jame in the previous uh in the previous uh you

Evan: know episode nine is that when he goes down into the uh downstairs and sees

Evan: heli he like he likes the severed heli the,

Evan: severed version of his daughter like referring to

Evan: her as like having cure in her and like that's a

Evan: pretty fucked up thing like clearly he does not like

Evan: he also basically means he doesn't love his children he doesn't

Evan: love anybody i mean he probably just loves himself and and maybe

Evan: yeah and heli like the person he's

Evan: like literally created and then almost feels like this

Evan: idea that he's goes back to the other one

Evan: of you know like what was his end goal like is it this religious thing is

Evan: it just to make money and in some weird way it's

Evan: like he created like a different version of his daughter that

Evan: he actually likes more where he's engineered a

Evan: human that has emotions and characteristics that's different so like he could

Evan: create in theory an army of people that are more cure in them because you can

Evan: mold them how you want because they're basically like children and so it's it's

Evan: i don't know i don't know what i'm getting at or going with but i'm just that.

smirk: Could be the ultimate idea though like that that could very much be the thing.

Evan: Oh to like basically create like a to.

smirk: Create people that are more in line with what they think people should be you

smirk: know to get people severing and eventually just have the ones that are out and

smirk: about in the world be the sort of people who are free from the burden of those

smirk: pesky tempers or whatever the fuck and.

Evan: This so basically manipulate the people who are now the any is like really the

Evan: the real world person my you know so,

Evan: propaganda or right i

Evan: mean it's it's almost like i know this is going to sound stupid

Evan: like but what would be the point wouldn't it be better to

Evan: control your workers but then i guess if you're in the real world like irv like

Evan: he his audi was you know trying to figure things out like they don't want people

Evan: to gain class conscious on the outside right it's almost.

smirk: Like they need two innies or 25 yeah.

Evan: Where your your audi is like controlled into believing that the world is great

Evan: and this company lumen is great and then the any that does evil work for an

Evan: evil corporation whether it's walmart lumen apple tv you know whatever.

smirk: Okay so what about this so what about you know how people are disconnected from

smirk: the um from the fruits of their labor and also like the steps of like let's

smirk: say like manufacturing or something are split up into different,

smirk: sections so that like people aren't really fully involved with the entire start to finish process,

smirk: in something like manufacturing like you're the one who pushes the button you're

smirk: the one who like picks up the thing you're the one who screws the lid on and

smirk: somebody else is the one who like it's all very segmented so you're not seeing

smirk: the whole and you're not like fully attached to it,

smirk: so if this makes sense to kind of apply that to like the human experience of somebody who's severed.

smirk: Your detachment from like these different segments of your lives

smirk: let's take something like like let's say somebody was like severed into

smirk: like multiple situations like you have the you

smirk: that has to do the shit that like like the you that

smirk: goes to the dmv the you that goes to the dentist the one that has to

smirk: take apart the which by the way we'll talk

smirk: about how fucking cruel and crazy that was with the crib but

smirk: the you that does all the things that frustrate you

smirk: and that you know eventually build up into this thing like something

smirk: is not right here like there's all these like the you that has to

smirk: go to work and get and get shafted basically

smirk: and out of like everything that you actually deserve you separate

smirk: that into a bunch of different people who who don't really have any power and

smirk: then the one that does is not aware of all this like these tiny like injustices

smirk: and frustrations and they're very just like chill and plastic like they don't

smirk: have any connection to the stuff that frustrates them and might motivate them

smirk: to like i don't know want to change the way things work.

Evan: Nope, that's it.

smirk: Does that make sense?

Evan: No, that's it.

smirk: Okay.

Evan: Yeah. No, that, that makes, yeah. I mean, that kind of, I don't know how that

Evan: then kills Gemma with like the completion, but it does seem like that's what

Evan: they're trying to create is be able to segment you.

Evan: Imagine if like you could, you know, as a, you're Audi, you're like,

Evan: I don't want to have to go to Ikea and like shop for shit or whatever, like build the crib,

Evan: whatever, like building Ikea furniture can be frustrating like what if you just

Evan: like didn't have to remember that that existed but then by not remembering you

Evan: don't realize that there's these you know that ikea has bad labor i don't know

Evan: like you can't you know you're like separated from these things no i we could

Evan: just cut it here if we're done,

Evan: No, I think that's right. I don't know that that's necessarily what they're

Evan: doing, but it makes perfect sense.

smirk: But it makes sense. As long as it makes sense. As long as you get what I'm... Yeah.

red: That's all that matters.

smirk: Yeah. As long as it makes sense to somebody. Oh, did you guys get a good look at the painting?

red: Yes. I sobbed. I literally paused it and sobbed because what the fuck?

Evan: That whole ass episode was like the band playing Milchik in the...

red: Oh, the band's cunt.

Evan: Though yeah like the milchek in the bathroom like smashing his way out and then

Evan: you also have the like goat lady again like there were some like lots of just

Evan: crazy shit all lauren i think is her name right no emily emily brian.

smirk: Of tarth that one.

Evan: Yeah her name was emile.

smirk: The goat's name.

red: I thought that goat's name was like a meal.

Evan: Oh you're right that is that sorry sorry i to the to the actress and I apologize

Evan: that I referred to you as a goat.

smirk: So the goat, okay, so is the goat fully just a symbolic gesture?

smirk: What does the goat have to do with it?

Evan: That feels super religious, right?

smirk: It does. It feels very culty and weird.

Evan: Abraham bringing his son to, you know. But this clearly, she's like sacrificed a lot of goats.

red: So many, because she's like lost her mind. She's like, this can't be,

red: I can't keep fucking doing this shit, bro. Just raising goats to go kill him.

smirk: She's like, how long is this going to go on? As long as it needs to.

smirk: Fuck you. Hand her a bolt gun and then say that to her, which,

smirk: by the way, is like one of the most horrifying implements ever.

Evan: Bolt guns i love i mean you kind of love that uh the uh guy uh what's his name

Evan: um drummond drummond gets bolt gun you know bolt gun sort of accidentally by

Evan: mark because he doesn't realize he's holding it in his hand it's.

smirk: So crazy the way that happens it's just

smirk: his the look on his face like the absolute pure horror like what

smirk: the fuck did i just do he wakes up accidentally murdering

smirk: the guy which totally had the guy had it coming and it

smirk: worked out fine but like yeah that that made me laugh a little bit which is

smirk: kind of morbid also when milchick hands dylan the paper it's like i will leave

smirk: you to read it in solitude because this may i don't know provoke an emotion

smirk: and then he just fucking books it out of there i i had a pause that i was laughing

smirk: so fucking hard that had me weak too.

red: I was like what the fuck very milchick coded.

smirk: Yeah that was so funny and he was getting into the uh the choreography and merriment

smirk: too he was very excited to be the director he.

red: Ate that up y'all he did so.

smirk: Good like really.

red: He did so good.

Evan: Yeah think about how much time it would have required to rehearse that not like

Evan: for the show but like in the world of the show i just imagine milchik like making

Evan: these people just rehearse this for you know days months are.

smirk: They severed they're.

red: Severed right they allude that they're severed and their whole job is just being

red: band performers marching band how.

smirk: Often does that come up really.

Evan: I was gonna say how often do you need a fucking band to like I don't know every

Evan: time they kill a goat they like do a little performance.

red: Play a little ditty oh my god.

Evan: Well there's like there's like I mean like we there's lots of shit that happens

Evan: in this last episode I mean it's,

Evan: there's just i'm looking at like the list and like some of the screenshots

Evan: that they have on the wiki of just like you know all like

Evan: when you talk about the conversation they have on the camera and then they

Evan: obviously go back he goes back to try and you know save his

Evan: wife and then we have the murder of drummond and you yeah you want to talk about

Evan: the uh making her take apart the crib like as the final test to not remembering

Evan: that she's like had however many miscarriages Horribly cruel and.

smirk: Awful yeah and i'd like how they say she doesn't feel anything she's not but

smirk: she looks upset like i don't like i don't look.

red: Unwell as fuck she doesn't.

smirk: Look like a.

red: Void list she looks devastated.

smirk: Yeah she's confused and scared and also she's definitely upset like this is

smirk: not a chill experience for her but these are people who also very.

red: Typical of men being like she looks.

smirk: Fine so it's fine to me and she's like literally.

red: Looks like she's about to throw up.

smirk: Yeah they.

Evan: Couldn't even like do her the curse of giving her like an electric drill to

Evan: take that thing apart i mean you're put like there's a lot of fucking screws in that thing.

smirk: Yeah like putting together furniture i don't mind it so much because at least

smirk: you get something when you're done with it taking apart furniture that fucking

smirk: sucks that's terrible what a terrible chore just spit it with a hammer put it

smirk: on crazy jesus christ yeah having to put it on the curb with a free sign and

smirk: it'll be gone in like two seconds.

Evan: Yeah. Oh man. Like the, I'm trying to think of some other like ridiculous things

Evan: that happens. I mean, you also just have what's crazy.

Evan: So like going back a couple episodes with like the directions to get to the

Evan: elevator too is also just like Mark like frantically looking at his directions.

Evan: Like it's a kind of a miracle he got there.

smirk: I would be so lost. Every hallway looks exactly the same. It's just.

red: I would just give up. I'd be like, Like, I'm sorry. I couldn't,

red: I couldn't, Gemma. I couldn't do it for you.

smirk: Sorry about your wife. The hallways were confusing.

Evan: I also never mentioned this in other episodes, but I also can't help but think

Evan: of the little symbol over the elevator as also like the little symbol that's

Evan: used like in the Palestinian...

Evan: You know, the little red triangle.

red: Yeah, the resistance triangle.

Evan: And in this case, I think it's orange, right? But it obviously has no relation,

Evan: but I just, when it happened this time, because it's like kind of fucked up

Evan: and Drummond dies in the elevator too.

Evan: Not in an act of resistance, I mind you.

smirk: Him using the tie to open the biometric lock, that was pretty great.

Evan: Genius.

smirk: Yeah, that was wicked smart. Yeah, I like that a lot.

smirk: um but yeah he just he comes it's still so funny he just comes to it's just

smirk: covered in fucking blood this episode was a lot more violent than i would have

smirk: uh i assume there would be some violence i didn't expect full-on beat down and um i really loved when.

red: Mark was like finally there he followed the instructions and i don't know what

red: the bitch's name he's talking to but he she calls him a fucko,

red: i really loved the use of like comedic relief in this last episode it was very

red: sparse but it was like perfect in the places that they added it.

smirk: Well sarah bernhardt she's uh yeah she's been a comedian for forever and she

smirk: was like yeah it's like she's always i always like the way she says fuck i just

smirk: i don't know her voice is is fun to me so yeah i like that too oh like i was

smirk: waiting for her to use she's.

Evan: Like the she's not like a nurse.

red: Kind of is and they're like like back and forth just like kind of wailing at each other like.

smirk: And he's pointing the gun at the gun at her but it's already not.

red: Going to hurt her and she's freaking the fuck out oh i love that it was great.

smirk: Yeah yeah it's really.

Evan: Good well i thought they're like the more more disturbing than getting like

Evan: the him like drumming lying there with the you know,

Evan: blood pouring out of his neck is when they get into the elevator and they have

Evan: to like push him out of the way to then go up. That actually had me laughing a little bit.

Evan: But also it's then really creepy. They're in the elevator.

Evan: Mark's like just soaked in blood and Gemma's, you know, is, you know, so,

Evan: elated that she's like leaving this place and then like you just absolutely

Evan: get kicked in the face when you've like the final scene of her, you know.

Evan: I mean, obviously you probably are listening to this if you haven't.

Evan: seen this spoiler alerts if you've gotten this far but it's just it's so it's

Evan: almost predictable but it doesn't make it any less gut-wrenching.

red: It was so predictable i was like expecting it but i

red: was still like it's not gonna happen now like

red: they would never fuck us over so badly but

red: then there has to be a third season what is a third season if they're not stuck

red: there the third season pretty much has to be at this point like jimma and devin

red: spend the rest of their life trying to get them out of that lumen floor i'd

red: assume so like predictable nonetheless the most,

red: devastating heartbreaking ending of a season of a tv show i've seen in a long time yeah.

smirk: It's very much giving like the graduate like they're like on the bus or running

smirk: down the hallway and like.

red: Where the fuck are.

smirk: You gonna go like and the song that was playing i forgot to um.

Evan: Write down what it was it was um oh.

red: But.

smirk: Yeah it was it was very well shot and it was very well done but.

red: Edited beautifully all of it was

red: perfect surely it was just really fucking frustrating to bear witness to.

Evan: Yeah and they and i think the last thing too is both

Evan: heli are and gemma's last word on

Evan: the show was both mark like she's pounding

Evan: on the door like and she's mark and then he turns around and

Evan: sees hellie coming down and she says you know mark and

Evan: he's you know it's yeah brutal and

Evan: i mean you almost have the idea like is mark gonna s be trapped in you know

Evan: there or how can he then because if he's let go as his audi won't he then just

Evan: connect with gemma and then at this point.

smirk: He's killed a guy, right? He's fully murdered a guy.

Evan: It's like can you be trying to afford law for doing it as an any.

red: That's the thing right like.

smirk: I don't think.

red: They in this society does the government like even really because,

red: comparing it to like today if there was a corporation doing this I think the

red: US government would just like turn a blind eye like everybody would be in their

red: signal chats apparently like did you see this crazy fucking shit but like they

red: wouldn't regulate it to any capacity like.

smirk: No because businesses should be able to do what they want to do because.

red: They're people. So in that, no, I don't think that there's like any law that's

red: like any scam murder because why would they want to get involved with like regulating a corporation?

Evan: Well, so what I cut you off though, like you're saying is like he's now trapped,

Evan: right? Because why would they let him, he's killed someone. Why would they let him go?

smirk: Yeah, he can't go anywhere. Like I think if anything does come of it,

smirk: which obviously it's, there's going to be some kind of consequence.

smirk: If he doesn't, somehow reintegrate

smirk: while they're like on the run or something because i'm not really

smirk: clear on that process whether he needs like constant intervention and

smirk: like ongoing care from that doctor that his sister kind of

smirk: like shoot away burn yeah like burn that bridge um is he gonna continue if he

smirk: continues to kind of reintegrate while he's while they're down there like on

smirk: the run from the people in the same exact fucking building then i don't know

smirk: but if anything happens it's gonna be good because Lumen disappears and it's not going to be.

smirk: I don't think the law will have anything to do with it.

red: They're just going to be stuck on that severed floor, though.

red: It's like, where are they going? They're just going to live on the severed floor?

Evan: I mean, the goat lady seems to live there, right?

red: Well, you're right. Some of them don't leave, it seems.

smirk: Yeah, maybe they can hide out in the goat place.

Evan: Yeah, I mean, they're going to kill her, presumably. There could be an uprising.

red: Maybe, of the ones that are stuck there currently.

Evan: Well, all of the people who are the musicians kind of slightly rebel, right?

Evan: I mean, in a way, they're kind of blocking... Well, rebel is probably a too strong of a word.

smirk: Okay, so there's more than one severed floor on it, obviously,

smirk: because we know that Gemma is on one of the other ones.

smirk: But I feel like, okay, so the band is probably on the same one.

smirk: How do they never hear them practice?

smirk: I just don't understand. Maybe they're in a soundproof room or something.

red: For sure, soundproof.

smirk: Yeah, but they can get to other departments, but they've only been to two others.

Evan: Well, if they have another floor below where they're working in MDR,

Evan: they could have more floors, presumably, like a deeper floor.

smirk: I'm just trying to get a sense of how many people.

Evan: Oh, God, I don't know. Like, they always made it seem, in my mind,

Evan: that there was not that many severed people.

Evan: But now it's almost like there's lots of them, and maybe it's...

red: It's like there's a lot.

Evan: The more that they've been testing and doing all these different things,

Evan: they're now able to use it more or something? I don't know.

Evan: Why would you sign up as a musician to do that?

smirk: Maybe they always wanted to learn an instrument, but they didn't want to practice.

red: Yeah, maybe it goes back to the children's stuff. They're like,

red: get them as kids. It's like, you want to come to flute lessons,

red: kid? Congratulations. Now there's a chip in your brain.

Evan: Yeah. It's all messed up. I mean, season three.

red: It's very perplexing. I feel like I was left with a lot to say.

red: And then the more I thought about it, the more I was like, damn,

red: I just kind of don't even know anymore.

Evan: I can't even like predict season three because I don't feel like I even was

Evan: able to predict what was going to happen in season two.

Evan: I mean, it seems like kind of reverse though. Like Gemma is going to be like

Evan: searching to, you know, get Mark out.

red: That's what i think is going to happen i think my

red: only strong prediction of season three is that we

red: didn't see irving doing some kind of possible resistance for

red: no reason i think that there is an existing resistance of

red: severance and lumen and i think that jimma and

red: devon to some extent are going to get sucked up into resisting

red: this um maybe even some kind of like

red: pr thing where they're going on interviews and shit to like talk about the travesties

red: of lumen i don't know it's just like now that jimma is free there's no reality

red: where they can like kind of just pretend this never happened because she could

red: just like go on oprah and be like i was trapped in the basement of a corporation help like they have to.

Evan: Get her back right.

red: They do have to get her back but literally like all she has to do now is run

red: like she just has to turn around and go yeah because devin is outside waiting for her yeah so.

smirk: I'm interested to see how it goes with rickin,

smirk: when jemma's back and after the shock is worn off and she's like chill that a little bit,

smirk: she's gonna find out that he's like gonna start working with loom i think she's

smirk: gonna tear into him a little bit and maybe he'll have some introspection finally

smirk: about how shitty he's being rewriting his book for them.

red: That's actually funny i was going to mention the only other kind of just theory

red: i guess i have for season three is that devon and rickon are possibly going

red: to get divorced like she's going to go back and like fuck you get the fuck out

red: of my house like you're you're sick you're just sick.

smirk: So yeah he sucks.

Evan: Well, in a year or so, we will, you know, we will.

red: We'll know.

Evan: We'll know. But I'm sure they're going to do some crazy shit because it seems like.

smirk: Maybe we'll get more animatronic here. It was like Disney World,

smirk: like that Hall of Presidents.

smirk: That was creepy. I'm excited to see if they have another one for season three.

smirk: If it'll also roast people.

Evan: Yeah. Like, seemed like the first season was lots of these like little bits

Evan: about Kier and how weird it was. And in season two, you actually got to hear

Evan: it from them themselves, you know, like the Jame.

Evan: And then I want to know more about this crazy family.

red: I don't. I really don't. Like, what we have seen so far is too much. It's way too much.

red: Helena's only eating like one egg a day. And for whatever reason,

red: Jame wants her to eat it fucking raw.

red: Like, that just stressed me the fuck out. I feel bad for Heli.

red: I immediately made me think, is her any not starving?

red: Because her Audi is. Yeah.

smirk: She's swimming a lot. She's swimming like laps on laps on. She has to be fucking starving.

red: It's like some serious eating disorder. And I think it's like a part of the cult, right?

red: Like they're restricting the foods you eat and then they're making you work

red: out an insane amount. You're like delirious.

red: You'll accept anything. You'll do anything. You're hungry and you're fucking tired.

Evan: Aren't yeah i mean she's conditioned in a way that's very much seems not good

Evan: for her mental health physical health yeah.

smirk: I'm excited to see what happens i don't know.

Evan: Well we'll see in about in a year or so we'll return for season three jesus

Evan: christ my brain my brain is has been severed from this episode as i've joked

Evan: many times but i don't know any last last parting words on.

smirk: I don't think so.

Evan: I know there's like other like things that happen and little bits here and there

Evan: but i mean i feel like we hit all the i.

red: Would say while dylan said fuck you mr milchick i would just end with fuck you

red: mark yeah seriously eat fucking shit mark.

Evan: There are a lot of unredeemable people in this show just the whole thing like.

red: All of them are irredeemable.

Evan: It's for irving Maybe.

red: Girl Irving is like all we've got going for us.

Evan: He's on a train to nowhere.

red: Yeah, who knows if we even see him again. But I think I mentioned that in one

red: of the podcast episodes that like you have to be either incredibly emotionally

red: stunted or just a piece of shit to be willing to suffer.

red: And maybe it's just like a little bit of both.

red: Like you didn't always have to be a piece of shit, but something along the way

red: just like really robbed you of your soul. Like, I just don't think you are,

red: like, the best person in the world if you're willing to sever anyway.

red: So, I think that's why they're kind of all unlikable and all iterations of themselves.

smirk: Yeah, I think...

smirk: products of the shitty environment but also they're actively choosing to you

smirk: know be part of what makes that shitty by like pioneering this new way to exploit people.

red: It's like the general crux of people in the west right like we are all exploited

red: under capitalism but like,

red: compared to the west of the world we are like complicit in a way that a lot

red: of other nations and their people don't even get an opportunity to be complicit really.

smirk: Says a lot about society.

Evan: Yeah i mean well there's probably too

Evan: much to go into here but you could it'd be

Evan: interesting to almost consider the characters as

Evan: stand-ins for different you know people and

Evan: groups within like our capitalist structure could

Evan: probably spend a whole episode on that but we'll save you all for for now on

Evan: that but uh red it's work pleasure to uh to discuss our trilogy of episodes

Evan: and maybe we'll do something that isn't severed in the future so you can give

Evan: your brains a severance break yeah.

smirk: We'll do like a michael bay joint or something something really.

red: Oh a marvel transformers 63 please the wrath.

Evan: Of con or something.

red: Or one of those fucking car movies they're like still they're like ai-ing the

red: dead guy so they can make those car movies again fast and furious oh my.

smirk: God are they really.

red: I don't know i maybe made that up it just feels like something they're definitely gonna do soon oh.

Evan: No well they are making the 11th one i think it's like a sequel to the 10th one but like.

red: They are actually making a please don't ever invite me for that garbage i sincerely

red: like i can't i'd show up absolutely smashed so yeah.

Evan: It's I think it's called Fast 11.

red: Don't piss me off, Evan. Do not piss me off because.

Evan: And to my listeners, I actually am planning an episode on the very first movie

Evan: with another podcast that's got cars and comrades who talk about cars and our comrades.

Evan: But the first one is actually like a, like the first one is like a decent movie.

Evan: Like after like the third one, they're like, I don't know anymore.

Evan: i haven't seen past watching them so i have no frame of reference but yeah we

Evan: won't we won't do we'll do something more fun than uh.

red: Something a little less daunting, yeah, than the Fast and Furious,

red: the Transformers, any of it.

Evan: You know what movie I just watched today on the airplane that would be an interesting

Evan: one is 10 Things I Hate About You?

red: I've never watched that movie, but I would absolutely watch it for this.

Evan: Yeah, Adriel Stiles, Heath Ledger, you know, R.I.P. And Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

Evan: Like, it doesn't fully hold up, which is interesting.

Evan: well i guess it's not surprising if you if you've seen it before it's uh.

red: I've seen gifs of it enough to know that it doesn't probably hold up that well

red: it was very popular on tumblr and like the 2016 to 2012 era yeah.

Evan: I feel like there's a bunch of memes that were from i can't think of when any

Evan: of them were at the moment maybe it's not.

red: She's like listing the things doesn't she's like she's like in the thing i hate

red: most about you or whatever i don't know for poetry for yeah Yeah.

smirk: For a poetry unit.

Evan: Exactly. There's also like the big scene with Heath Ledger doing like the singing,

Evan: you know, I can't take my eyes off you, the Frankie Valli song.

Evan: Kind of like an iconic scene. Anyway.

smirk: Yeah.

Evan: We'll take this discussion offline.

red: Yeah.

Evan: But thanks everyone for listening and we'll catch you next time.

red: Thank you.