1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,680 I don't. I'm not chaotic for the sake of being chaotic, and I'm not in 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,320 the. And I'm not chaotic for the sake of breaking something or causing 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,160 harm to others. Right. We're chaotic because our brains work differently. And this 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,920 is now the age of the chaotic brain. We can now take these cool, 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,600 crazy ideas, get angry at it for. For a half an hour like 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,160 you said, and then have Claude code come in here for 40 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,760 minutes and then fix it, and then you're on to the next thing. If that 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,270 sounds like your brain on a good day, then you're in the right 9 00:00:29,270 --> 00:00:32,230 place. Welcome to Data Driven. 10 00:00:47,830 --> 00:00:51,270 Hello and welcome back to Data Driven, the podcast where we explore the emerging industry 11 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:55,040 and field that is AI data and of course, all the 12 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,640 stuff that underpins it. Normally, my most favorite 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,320 data engineer in the world would be with me, but however, today he is 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,720 not. However, I did do have a different Andy. 15 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:10,920 Welcome to the show, Andy. Is it Butcher or Betcher? It is 16 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,360 Betcher. Betcher. Okay, well, welcome to the show. 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,720 You are a Chief innovation officer at. 18 00:01:21,490 --> 00:01:25,290 double track. So tell me a little bit. What is 19 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:27,570 a. What does this Chief Innovation Officer do? 20 00:01:28,770 --> 00:01:32,410 Well, I will tell you. My favorite way to describe a Chief 21 00:01:32,410 --> 00:01:36,050 Innovation Officer is the one person you call 22 00:01:36,290 --> 00:01:39,970 when you're stuck and you need to move your top 23 00:01:39,970 --> 00:01:43,810 or bottom line and don't quite know how. Got it right. 24 00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:48,170 So I will come into an organization and ask some 25 00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:51,720 of the crazy questions, propose some of the crazy 26 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,560 approaches, throw a bunch at the wall, see 27 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,240 what sticks, and then the old 28 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,320 overused trope of go fast, fail fast. 29 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,640 We will try a bunch of things as quickly as we can with all of 30 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,360 the new awesome technologies that we've never had before in our 31 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,080 careers as you, and probably twice as 32 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,760 better as this Andy, your normal Andy that you have on your podcasts. 33 00:02:18,540 --> 00:02:22,260 As you guys have talked about, we have not had this type of 34 00:02:22,260 --> 00:02:26,020 technology available to us ever in our careers. And, Frank, I've been doing this for 35 00:02:26,020 --> 00:02:29,820 32 years, right? I have done a lot of fun 36 00:02:29,820 --> 00:02:33,660 stuff in my day, but not like I have in the last couple years. 37 00:02:33,739 --> 00:02:37,420 I mean, heck, Frank, much less than last six months. So taking 38 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:41,260 all of this wonderful crazy brain that we all have and applying it 39 00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:44,740 with some really cool technology, that's how I see a Chief Innovation 40 00:02:44,740 --> 00:02:48,580 Officer is. Is just. That's the best way I can 41 00:02:48,580 --> 00:02:51,860 describe it, man. I think that's a good way to put it because you see 42 00:02:51,860 --> 00:02:55,460 a lot of companies, they really struggle with. They know they want to use AI, 43 00:02:55,460 --> 00:02:59,260 particularly in the software space. Right. They will know they want to use AI, 44 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:02,220 they know they want to do all these things, but they don't really know how. 45 00:03:02,620 --> 00:03:06,460 Right. And it's a different mindset, I think, you know, in the 46 00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:10,300 virtual green room, you said, you know, you, you, you, you don't 47 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:13,980 want to be responsible for running things. Right. You want to be responsible for trying 48 00:03:13,980 --> 00:03:17,760 things, is basically what you said. Yep. And I think that's a. Put it. 49 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,600 Because we live in such a. No one, no one 50 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,760 knows how this is going to play out. Like, honestly, like, everyone thinks they know 51 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,120 how it'll play out or, or whatever. But, I mean, I was able to, 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,200 you know, put together, 53 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,680 literally I had, I had a car accident in December. Literally that day I 54 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,200 started a new project on GitHub and just started Claude code, just 55 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,760 chewing away at something, and Now I'm like 80,000 lines of code later, 56 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,600 and it's only been maybe three months. Yeah. Right. 57 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,600 And, you know, 80,000 lines of code is not a trivial amount 58 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,120 of work. Right. And it's an 59 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,800 idea that I would not have. Yeah. I mean, theoretically 60 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,600 I could have, you know, raised the money, found the money, paid 61 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,440 people to do it, but I wasn't, I wasn't going to do it. 62 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,720 Like, realistically, I wasn't going to do it. But now, now I am the precipice 63 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,520 of having this product, you know, that's out 64 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,160 there, that helps podcasters. I built it for the 65 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,000 needs that Andy, Candace and I have for the different shows that we have. And, 66 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,760 and, you know, basically product, you know, 67 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,400 production line for podcasts is basically what it is. 68 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,320 And recently had to change the domain name because somebody 69 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,880 else had something very similar. So, but, but, 70 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:38,720 but again, that was not a lot of work comparatively. I just told, 71 00:04:39,190 --> 00:04:42,790 you know, Claude, like, hey, look, this is too similar. This is the new branding. 72 00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:45,750 And it went, it did it in about, you know, I think I was salty 73 00:04:45,750 --> 00:04:48,630 about it for like an hour. Yep. And then, 74 00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:53,990 you know, Claude had it fixed in 40 minutes. So, you know, I 75 00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:57,670 was, I was mad longer than it took to implement the fix, which 76 00:04:57,670 --> 00:05:01,110 if that's not, if that is not a metaphor for our time, 77 00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:05,310 because, you know, maybe a part of me was stuck in the old ways, like, 78 00:05:05,310 --> 00:05:07,550 oh, my God, I have to change the domain. Oh, my God, I have to 79 00:05:07,550 --> 00:05:10,860 change the code base. I have to do this. The AI doesn't really care that 80 00:05:11,090 --> 00:05:14,450 much. Right. To it. It's just finding a replace. Yeah. 81 00:05:15,730 --> 00:05:19,330 It's crazy. So I will 82 00:05:19,330 --> 00:05:20,930 say, what was it? Probably 83 00:05:22,290 --> 00:05:25,650 2006, 2007 84 00:05:26,929 --> 00:05:30,570 was my last kind of career pivot, right? And 85 00:05:30,570 --> 00:05:34,210 I was moving from a primarily Microsoft driven developer 86 00:05:35,090 --> 00:05:38,930 and then vb, C net, SQL Data, like all the 87 00:05:38,930 --> 00:05:42,590 things as I was pivoting that into what would 88 00:05:42,590 --> 00:05:46,270 turn into a 13 year Salesforce career when I stopped, when I stepped in 89 00:05:46,270 --> 00:05:50,030 Salesforce and I was looking, comparing, contrasting, walk in saying, well, heck, out 90 00:05:50,030 --> 00:05:53,390 of the 100% of time. Or you know, Frank, as you and I know as 91 00:05:53,390 --> 00:05:56,950 nerds, we've got about 120, 130% of time. 92 00:05:57,190 --> 00:06:00,470 You know, families might disagree with that, but that's what we do. 93 00:06:00,870 --> 00:06:04,550 If you look at the 100% of time, you used to spend 100% of the 94 00:06:04,550 --> 00:06:08,390 time standing things up and dealing with domain name security and stuff. And when I 95 00:06:08,390 --> 00:06:11,500 looked at Salesforce, it was like, well, heck, I can take 80% of that too 96 00:06:11,730 --> 00:06:15,050 it off the plate because the platform handles it and the rest 20%. I can 97 00:06:15,050 --> 00:06:18,890 use my crazy brain to actually like do something cool. And that went for 98 00:06:18,890 --> 00:06:22,330 a bunch of years. And now we are in the world of AI and the 99 00:06:22,330 --> 00:06:25,730 same thing's taking place again right now. It's with all of the other 100 00:06:25,730 --> 00:06:29,570 technologies plus all the new ones, right? To your point 101 00:06:29,570 --> 00:06:33,290 of making that application to help you and your cohorts there with, with the 102 00:06:33,290 --> 00:06:36,290 podcasting, you can now walk in with the idea, 103 00:06:39,020 --> 00:06:42,660 excuse me, post production, and edit that one out there or leave it in for 104 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:46,500 comedic effect, whatever, right? So you can look at this stuff 105 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:50,060 and like really stand some things up. But my wife pointed out, 106 00:06:50,140 --> 00:06:53,500 you get you Frank. You've seen on the Internet the stupid little like, you know, 107 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:57,100 nine box D and D role character matrices, 108 00:06:57,100 --> 00:07:00,780 right? And my wife sticks me in the center column all the way 109 00:07:00,780 --> 00:07:02,860 to the right, which is the chaotic neutral, 110 00:07:04,460 --> 00:07:07,900 right? I, I, I, I don't, I'm not chaotic for the sake of being 111 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:11,740 chaotic. And I'm not in the in, I'm not the chaotic for the sake 112 00:07:11,740 --> 00:07:15,500 of breaking something or causing harm to others, right? We're chaotic because our 113 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:18,860 brains work differently. And this is now the age of the chaotic brain. 114 00:07:19,260 --> 00:07:23,060 We can now take these cool, crazy ideas, get angry at it for it for 115 00:07:23,060 --> 00:07:26,900 a half an hour like you said, and then have Claude code 116 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:29,930 come in here for 40 minutes and then fix it and then you're on to 117 00:07:29,930 --> 00:07:33,690 the next thing, which both addresses our wonderful chaotic nature 118 00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:36,890 and our crazy ADHD brains which are jumping around like a pair of, you know, 119 00:07:36,890 --> 00:07:40,610 like a whole bunch of popcorn kernels and a popcorn popper. So, you know, 120 00:07:40,610 --> 00:07:44,370 I similarly, but with my clients and also with all of Our 121 00:07:44,370 --> 00:07:47,970 side projects that we all have, right? You know, to try to apply this 122 00:07:47,970 --> 00:07:51,770 technology and bake it into our brains. You know, same type 123 00:07:51,770 --> 00:07:55,370 of thing, 80, 90, 100,000 lines of code. You're typing stuff in. You're putting 124 00:07:56,170 --> 00:07:59,290 what would have been six to eight months of a team 125 00:07:59,990 --> 00:08:03,750 doing test frameworks, which is 126 00:08:03,750 --> 00:08:07,590 one thing, by the way, Frank, if you have not tied a test framework 127 00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:11,350 into your work with your applications or anybody listening to this 128 00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:15,150 podcast, the. The power and the resiliency 129 00:08:15,150 --> 00:08:18,830 that you're getting through Claude code and, you know, pick your tool. I'm just 130 00:08:18,830 --> 00:08:22,670 picking on Claude because, I mean, my opinion, about four months ago, they. They went 131 00:08:22,670 --> 00:08:25,950 into a different ballpark. They're not even in the same ballpark as everybody else right 132 00:08:25,950 --> 00:08:29,750 now. So you take all the crazy, awesome stuff you've got going with 133 00:08:29,750 --> 00:08:32,970 cloud code right now and how it helps you through things and all this, tell 134 00:08:32,970 --> 00:08:36,730 it to go pick on what you're not thinking of or put 135 00:08:36,730 --> 00:08:40,130 a test framework in, or have it do security auditing. 136 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:44,530 Have it. Go find, you know, find. And I can give you a list here, 137 00:08:44,530 --> 00:08:48,170 Frank, of the different security organizations that put out really good 138 00:08:48,170 --> 00:08:51,850 white papers on the. On the methodologies they go through that all apps should 139 00:08:51,850 --> 00:08:55,530 do. And you point Claude at it, you say, hey, either it's Claude code by 140 00:08:55,530 --> 00:08:59,050 itself or you pick up co worker dispatch. Now, that will tie into the browsers 141 00:08:59,050 --> 00:09:02,610 and browses you to go through and look through stuff and say, hey, I need 142 00:09:02,610 --> 00:09:06,110 you to compile all. All of this and then apply that good logic in here. 143 00:09:06,430 --> 00:09:10,110 So it's not just ideation, it's also a 144 00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:13,910 level of fortification. Now, I will also say 145 00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:16,910 this for all of the old grizzled gray hairs 146 00:09:17,950 --> 00:09:21,710 that are listening to the podcast, because, Frank, you and I both, I 147 00:09:21,710 --> 00:09:24,270 think we've been around the block a couple times, and I know one of the 148 00:09:24,270 --> 00:09:28,070 biggest things I get talking around this stuff is, well, you know, I've been 149 00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:31,430 doing this stuff for a while. There's a lot of things that aren't spoken. There's 150 00:09:31,430 --> 00:09:34,830 a lot of experience we bring into play. Well, absolutely there is. 151 00:09:35,450 --> 00:09:39,210 We have to teach our tools to help us go through that. That's why we 152 00:09:39,210 --> 00:09:42,730 use our crazy brains and do it. Like I mentioned that testing framework, right? 153 00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:46,970 So, man, it is an exciting time. What was 154 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:50,690 the craziest thing, Frank, when you were dinking through your app, like, 155 00:09:50,690 --> 00:09:54,490 what was the one, like, bang, aha. Moment that came up that you could 156 00:09:54,490 --> 00:09:58,330 not have done otherwise? Oh, God, there's so many. But the 157 00:09:58,330 --> 00:10:01,970 first one was really I think testing framework, no one really 158 00:10:01,970 --> 00:10:05,760 enjoys testing. No necessary evil, 159 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,400 but no it's necessary evil. For me it was 160 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,200 Planning mode, right? Because for me, because it would be, 161 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,200 you know, it would go through and be like have you thought about this? Like 162 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,800 I think it just said that and we can go into and it basically suggests 163 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,960 we go into planning mode and discuss it. And I, I find myself having my, 164 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,800 this discussion with an AI that you know is 165 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,960 approximates a pretty reasonable conversation one would have 166 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,130 with a junior to to mid level 167 00:10:34,490 --> 00:10:37,970 architect, right? You talking through these problems. I love 168 00:10:37,970 --> 00:10:41,770 Planning mode, right. I what I'll do in my projects because 169 00:10:41,770 --> 00:10:45,610 now with my, my ada I like to say I have Schrodinger's 170 00:10:45,610 --> 00:10:49,170 adhd, right. Because it's both, you know, I don't have it 171 00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:52,930 diagnosed, right. So it's adhd ish. So I can have 172 00:10:52,930 --> 00:10:56,250 it when I need it and I don't have it, I don't need it 173 00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:01,860 is I have like four different project ideas going on. Maybe, maybe 174 00:11:01,860 --> 00:11:05,460 five. Right. And it's kind of like I also have 175 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:09,580 my co host on Impact Quantum is also very, very 176 00:11:09,580 --> 00:11:12,980 neurodiverse and she leans into that and it really is kind of the 177 00:11:12,980 --> 00:11:16,500 superpower if you don't, you know, especially in the age we live in now, right. 178 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:20,980 Because you can have these ideas and 179 00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:24,860 you know, as long as you can prioritize them. And I find, you know I 180 00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:28,580 basically created out of a Claude project a project 181 00:11:28,580 --> 00:11:32,200 manager, right. So have a VP of project engineering. Each one of the 182 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,600 project ideas have kind of their PM that manages that project 183 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,680 and I kind of talk to them and it sounds weird but I mean 184 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:43,240 I converse with them one way or the other and they come up with ideas. 185 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,920 And you know, part of it was ideating on the name change, right. 186 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,360 Originally I called it Podsy because it was going to call it 187 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,160 Podzi McPaderson, right. But I had to change it 188 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,840 so it kind of like had the whole list of things and you know, 189 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,760 it helped me ideate the ideas and I gave it the name of the other. 190 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,560 So ultimately I landed on Show Dog. Okay, 191 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,520 but, but it basically kind of helped me walk through 192 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,320 it, walk through the branding chain. So you can tell it to act like a 193 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,080 marketing manager, act like this and it will kind of, for lack of better term 194 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,680 switch hats and it'll do that. And for me that was amazing, right? And 195 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:22,560 I can kind of have them all meet together and then I basically 196 00:12:23,950 --> 00:12:27,710 one thing I discovered is you just output your conversation, the ideas that you have 197 00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:31,430 into report and markdown Right. Which you can read at your 198 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:34,990 leisure and other bots can read. 199 00:12:35,230 --> 00:12:38,830 Yep. So you go through and you kind of have this, like, very productive, 200 00:12:39,390 --> 00:12:43,150 you know, session of like an hour or two, and they basically, 201 00:12:43,150 --> 00:12:46,750 you. You plan out with the different bots and different Personas. You, 202 00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:49,790 you, you write everything down. It's like the olden days, right, where, you know, people 203 00:12:49,790 --> 00:12:52,670 would come up with a Project Action Memo and things like that. And, 204 00:12:53,390 --> 00:12:56,730 you know, everybody acronym TPS report type of thing. Right. 205 00:12:57,050 --> 00:13:00,730 Except useful. And, you know, you can basically put 206 00:13:00,730 --> 00:13:04,250 Claude on dangerous mode. Right. And 207 00:13:04,650 --> 00:13:08,250 go out, Go out to lunch, do something else. Do something 208 00:13:08,330 --> 00:13:11,970 like, you know, hang out with the family. Right. And a few hours later you 209 00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:15,770 come back to it and it's done, right? It's checked in, it's done. I 210 00:13:15,770 --> 00:13:18,850 also always have it kind of do like a. Like a change log and like, 211 00:13:18,850 --> 00:13:21,930 write a daily report, like, what'd you do today? And I can look back and 212 00:13:21,930 --> 00:13:24,370 like, when I feel like I'm not making progress, I can look. Well, you know, 213 00:13:24,370 --> 00:13:28,030 10,000 lines got written today, right? I mean, this is just you. 214 00:13:28,030 --> 00:13:31,870 Basically everyone has effectively, like 215 00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:35,310 a 10,000, you know, team of 216 00:13:35,310 --> 00:13:39,150 developers, right? Because, I mean, how long would it take to write 10,000 lines 217 00:13:39,150 --> 00:13:42,310 of code? Right? It would take, you know, if you needed to do them a 218 00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:45,750 day, you would need to have at least a thousand developers. 219 00:13:46,950 --> 00:13:50,230 And that's being generous, but then being able to, on a dime, 220 00:13:50,630 --> 00:13:53,560 say, that's not what I meant. Pivot. 221 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,800 Yes. With no attitude or very little attitude. With very 222 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,560 little attitude. Right, Right. Yeah. It's that. That perhaps 223 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,160 was one of the. One of the biggest things, like when. When the 224 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,680 Anthrotic. The Anthropic app came out, and then all of a sudden they turned on 225 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,080 Claude code. And then I was able to hook my IDE into the 226 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,520 cloud versions of it, so I can be sitting, you know, in a restaurant 227 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,690 and, you know, and on my way to the bathroom and back. Not 228 00:14:20,690 --> 00:14:23,930 in the bathroom because it's weird, right? But on the way to the bathroom and 229 00:14:23,930 --> 00:14:27,610 back. You can just type something into your phone now and. And 230 00:14:27,610 --> 00:14:30,170 just get the idea out of your head, because I know, Frank, I know about 231 00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:33,930 you, but a lot of my thoughts don't happen when I'm just sitting here. Right. 232 00:14:33,930 --> 00:14:37,530 When I'm sitting here, I've got. I. I don't know if you can see off 233 00:14:37,530 --> 00:14:40,010 camera over here, but I got like 10 monitors in front of me and three 234 00:14:40,010 --> 00:14:43,810 computers. Right. When I'm here, I'm locked into productivity mode and 235 00:14:43,810 --> 00:14:47,450 I'm doing things And I'm being distracted by IMs and all this 236 00:14:47,450 --> 00:14:51,130 other stuff when I'm out walking around the block or I'm driving my kids 237 00:14:51,130 --> 00:14:54,810 somewhere or driving my grandkids somewhere or my wife and I are out. 238 00:14:54,810 --> 00:14:58,490 That's where the ideas happen, when your brain is free. Right. I do a lot 239 00:14:58,490 --> 00:15:02,169 of off roading. If you read anything, read anything about my bio. Anybody who's 240 00:15:02,169 --> 00:15:05,810 listening, right? Like there's, oh yeah, he knows data and AI stuff. Oh 241 00:15:05,810 --> 00:15:09,370 yeah, and don't get him started on jeeps because he'll monopolize the conversation with off 242 00:15:09,370 --> 00:15:13,210 roading and jeeps all day and forget about data and AI, you know, save for 243 00:15:13,210 --> 00:15:16,980 the fun space of when all of those intersections, right. When I can 244 00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:20,660 finally figure out how to make money making that intersection happen, then 245 00:15:20,660 --> 00:15:24,420 come talk to me too. Right? But that's the time. All that fun 246 00:15:24,420 --> 00:15:27,860 time is when the cr. The cool thoughts are coming out and 247 00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:30,420 what do you have in front of you? Oh, I need to remember to do 248 00:15:30,420 --> 00:15:33,220 this. Or you take a voice memo and forgot you made the voice memo. 249 00:15:34,420 --> 00:15:38,140 Right. So I can just go quick, go pop open, you know, a claw 250 00:15:38,140 --> 00:15:41,700 dispatch a cloud dispatch and say, hey, go do these Google searches, put this crazy 251 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:45,220 hair braid idea back together. Notify me here when you're done at the end of 252 00:15:45,220 --> 00:15:48,570 the day and then ask me if you have any questions along the way. And 253 00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:52,130 then I put my phone back down and boom. You know, Bob's your 254 00:15:52,130 --> 00:15:55,290 uncle, goes for three hours and does stuff and ask me some questions. 255 00:15:55,610 --> 00:15:59,050 Like it's, it's like a digital assistant, an 256 00:15:59,050 --> 00:16:02,850 offshore team that, you know, I, you know, again, 257 00:16:02,850 --> 00:16:06,570 I, I pay the high end for, for Claude because I heard burning out 258 00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:09,930 limits, right. And it costs more to buy more than just to buy the top. 259 00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:14,290 Right? Right. Incredibly good marketing strategy and product strategy 260 00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:17,670 from Anthropic. Right? Right. Like 261 00:16:17,830 --> 00:16:20,990 when have we ever had this ability, especially as 262 00:16:20,990 --> 00:16:24,670 neurospicy individuals, being able to go dive in and just have all 263 00:16:24,670 --> 00:16:28,430 this crazy insanity. 80% of it drops off. But the 264 00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:31,510 20 that sticks, Frank, is pretty damn cool. 265 00:16:32,070 --> 00:16:35,390 I mean it is amazing. It is. I think it's a time. This really is 266 00:16:35,390 --> 00:16:38,070 a great time to be alive. Everyone's talking about, worried about, 267 00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:42,830 you know, we're recording this day after Easter, right. And we had 268 00:16:42,830 --> 00:16:46,670 a friend over for Easter who is very much an old school developer. And 269 00:16:46,670 --> 00:16:50,250 I'm like, you know, like you don't understand understand. He's, you know, not really dived 270 00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:54,050 into AI and I'm like, you know, you really need to take a 271 00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:56,650 Look at this, right? And he's in between jobs right now. And I'm like, you 272 00:16:56,650 --> 00:17:00,330 really need to look into this, right? Because there's no, you know, there's no 273 00:17:00,330 --> 00:17:04,090 avoiding it now, right? Everybody and their cousin 274 00:17:04,090 --> 00:17:07,330 is. Is doing something with AI. Everybody. And their dog 275 00:17:07,810 --> 00:17:10,290 is an expert in AI now. Right? 276 00:17:11,330 --> 00:17:15,090 But, you know, one, I was talking to someone 277 00:17:15,090 --> 00:17:18,850 who was a former Microsoft evangelist and teammate and 278 00:17:18,850 --> 00:17:22,500 coworker and friend. Still a friend, not a former friend, but, you 279 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,980 know, she's like, AI has basically made every developer a manager now, 280 00:17:26,620 --> 00:17:29,980 right? Because you have. Everybody has a team 281 00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:34,020 if they so choose to treat it like a team. Yep. Right. It's a threat 282 00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:37,660 and an opportunity. It's a threat for those who don't really seize on it, 283 00:17:38,860 --> 00:17:42,620 but it's an opportunity for those that do. Right? Like, I mean, 284 00:17:43,740 --> 00:17:47,180 you know, you mentioned Salesforce. Salesforce is probably the poster child 285 00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:49,420 for SaaS success, right? 286 00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:54,620 They have a. A building in San Francisco. You know, they have a tower, 287 00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:58,060 right? You go back to, like, New York, right? There was the Woolworth Tower, right. 288 00:17:58,060 --> 00:18:01,380 They changed retail, right? And there was the Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building. All 289 00:18:01,380 --> 00:18:05,140 these things. You know, to think that a SAS company could have a tower 290 00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:08,700 named after them, right. Is phenomenal. And, you know, 291 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:12,700 is every idea I have gonna be like, you know, is there going to be 292 00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:16,270 like a, you know, a show dog tower in 293 00:18:16,270 --> 00:18:19,270 Baltimore? Well, probably not, but, you know, maybe. 294 00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:21,590 Maybe, right? Like, you know, 295 00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:27,750 I mean, but, you know, the fact that I have kind of these five active 296 00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:31,510 projects in my mind right now and they wouldn't. They would 297 00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:35,350 stay in the back of their cocktail napkin in the past. Now they went 298 00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:39,070 on the whiteboard and I kind of basically type into the. Into Claude 299 00:18:39,070 --> 00:18:42,150 what was on the whiteboard or, you know, whatever the voice notes have. 300 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,800 I don't think people realize, like, just. Just how much power is at your fingertips 301 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,080 or your voice at this point, right. I drive my kids around 302 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,440 all the time, right? I'm taxi dad. And 303 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,840 I'll, you know, I'll see like a new research paper dropped. And, 304 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,680 you know, I don't. I don't have time to read them all, right? But I 305 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,200 do have time to drop them in a notebook lm and then have a 306 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,160 podcast made out of it that I can listen to. So that way, the first 307 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,720 time I sit through and read, it's not my first 308 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,040 time exposed to the material, right? So, like, I noticed I get a lot more 309 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,680 out of actually reading the. Not the physical, but like the electronic, you know, reading 310 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,840 it. I get a lot More out of it because I've kind of been prepped 311 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,560 and I heard lecture notes and things like that, that, that the AI created. 312 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,560 It's just, it's a phenomenal time to learn, for sure. And, and I 313 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,320 think now, particularly in the last six months, it's a phenomenal time to build. 314 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,560 Yes. Although I will say I've got two 315 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,160 phrases I'm going to pop here. Right? So the first one 316 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,000 is more serious. The second one is a little silly, right? So the 317 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,040 first one here is as I talk to individuals, you mentioned your friend 318 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,520 who's between jobs right now, right? And you did the exact right 319 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,040 thing. Hey, you know what? You got time. Go look at this. 320 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,840 Make your own decisions, use your own critical thinking. Like if this is something 321 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,520 you could use or something you can reference or something speak to, you 322 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,780 know, all that kind of thing, right? So the first one is I talk to 323 00:20:07,780 --> 00:20:11,460 individuals and I'm like, you know, AI is not coming for anybody's job at 324 00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:15,260 this point. Not yet. Right? That is a. Even, 325 00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:19,140 even the craziest super thinkers, right, are like, you know, 326 00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:22,700 six months, 12 months. No, there's no AI coming for your job. Right? 327 00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:26,700 However, people that use AI are coming for the jobs that 328 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:30,420 people that don't, Right? And that same thing goes for 329 00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:33,940 companies. I've got myself a nice little sweet 330 00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:37,340 battery of customers. I've got a bigger network that I talk to. Like. 331 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:41,240 Like, that's the one thing. And anybo. Anybody in my network who's listening to 332 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,680 this is probably going to snicker a little bit and say, oh, Andy says that 333 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,160 to me a bunch. It's like, you know, companies. I mean, the AI is not 334 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,000 coming for companies, but companies who are leveraging AI are going to come 335 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,840 for the companies that don't. And that's actually, you know, Frank, to an 336 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,680 earlier point you made, and I'll get to my silly thing in a second here, 337 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,520 but a point you made earlier was that, you know, all companies are like, 338 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,760 we need to use AI. You know, that was like three years ago when I, 339 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,470 when I went out on my own and, and really took 340 00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:13,230 all of my data backbone and my data history and brought it in and then 341 00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:16,510 said, I know these tools are coming. I need to get brain 342 00:21:16,590 --> 00:21:20,270 centered around to be able to talk to people about this. You know, 343 00:21:20,430 --> 00:21:23,350 company after company after company are coming in and saying, we need to use AI. 344 00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:26,350 The board's pushing us to use AI. My CEO is pushing, we need to use 345 00:21:26,350 --> 00:21:29,950 this stuff. I have no idea what to do. I bought a bunch of stuff 346 00:21:30,110 --> 00:21:33,710 and it didn't actually work and it's sitting on the shelf. And Now I've spent 347 00:21:33,870 --> 00:21:37,650 $15,000 a month on AI stuff sitting on the shelf 348 00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:42,010 and now they get a bad taste for it in their mouths. Like, no, you're 349 00:21:42,010 --> 00:21:45,410 doing the right thing, but you need to think 350 00:21:45,650 --> 00:21:49,490 differently. These are tools for ideation. There's no 351 00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:53,290 easy button, right? You don't. I just put a post on LinkedIn 352 00:21:53,290 --> 00:21:56,810 a little bit ago. But you don't treat an AI agent. An AI agent you 353 00:21:56,810 --> 00:22:00,210 should treat like an employee, right? You need to onboard it. You need to feed 354 00:22:00,210 --> 00:22:03,810 it information. You need to work with it. You need to understand that it's not 355 00:22:03,810 --> 00:22:06,930 perfect. You need to be able to put it in situations where it can fail 356 00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:10,670 and support. Support it and bring it back and work together, you know, so 357 00:22:10,670 --> 00:22:14,510 that's what I talk with companies a lot about. I've got a whole methodology 358 00:22:14,510 --> 00:22:17,870 and framework which, Frank, I'm not going to bother you guys with today, right? That's 359 00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:21,710 a whole different podcast for a different day. But, 360 00:22:22,350 --> 00:22:25,350 but really that's how I talk to individuals and companies today. You have to play 361 00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:28,790 with this stuff. And then. So the silly one, Frank here is, is the Spider 362 00:22:28,790 --> 00:22:32,430 man reference, right? It's the. With great power comes great responsibility, 363 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,400 right? You mentioned it. There's no better time right now to be able to learn 364 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,200 something, be able to, to, to have Notebook 365 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,920 LLM, go tear apart a large, a large document and share it to 366 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,680 you. This is one piece I am 367 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,080 very, very, very, very fervent about here. 368 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,920 And this is. I want to. I'm going to preface this with everybody 369 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,400 listening, that this is not a political statement, this is not a religious statement, this 370 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,020 is not an anything statement. But, but critical thinking is 371 00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:05,540 now more important than ever because these tools are 372 00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:09,380 so fast that they will summarize information 373 00:23:09,620 --> 00:23:12,940 in the way that you. That if you worked with it enough, it'll summarize in 374 00:23:12,940 --> 00:23:16,020 the way that, the way that you think. But you still have to use your 375 00:23:16,020 --> 00:23:19,620 critical thinking skills to be able to pull this stuff apart. You still need to 376 00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:23,060 use your critical thinking skills to question it and then go back and look for 377 00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:26,900 more information. But I'll tell you, even that, you know, slightly 378 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,610 funny, slightly weird statement I just made there, Frank, still, I 379 00:23:30,610 --> 00:23:34,370 have never been more excited in my career other than, you know, when 380 00:23:34,370 --> 00:23:37,570 I was 20 and making cool things, right? Like, you know, staying up for four 381 00:23:37,570 --> 00:23:40,610 days in a row making cool things. Now I stay up for four days in 382 00:23:40,610 --> 00:23:43,370 a row with a lot of coffee and make cool things, but that's right. There's 383 00:23:43,370 --> 00:23:46,170 a really so good. You're right, Frank. It's a cool time to be alive. These 384 00:23:46,170 --> 00:23:49,810 technologies have never been here. I really thank you for inviting me on and 385 00:23:49,810 --> 00:23:52,650 talking about this stuff. My, my, my, my 386 00:23:53,450 --> 00:23:57,050 biggest, nastiest appliance is my Jeep Wrangler. That's where all of my 387 00:23:57,050 --> 00:24:00,790 cash and time goes. So I actually have used AI to actually 388 00:24:00,790 --> 00:24:04,430 help try to troubleshoot that sucker too. It's amazing, really. Yeah, 389 00:24:04,430 --> 00:24:08,190 Tell me about that. Because I've had mixed results with like, AI troubleshooting. Right. So 390 00:24:08,190 --> 00:24:11,870 like, we had a, you know, we're on well and septic, right. So we had 391 00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:14,870 like a well, tank leak and, and 392 00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:18,790 AI kind of got that completely wrong. But the other 393 00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:22,550 day, actually for the, for the clothes dryer, like, I, I 394 00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:25,830 basically said, I need this type of replacement screw. What does it use? 395 00:24:26,790 --> 00:24:28,990 And it was like, well, tell me the model and make a model. I told 396 00:24:28,990 --> 00:24:32,270 him, make a model. And it was like, well, try this. And I bought a, 397 00:24:32,270 --> 00:24:35,070 I was at Home Depot and I bought a package of those screws and it 398 00:24:35,070 --> 00:24:38,230 was magically it worked. Right. So it does seem to be kind of a, 399 00:24:38,790 --> 00:24:41,949 I think, I think goes back to what you said, right. Like think about critical 400 00:24:41,949 --> 00:24:45,710 thinking. Right. Had I followed its advice with the 401 00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:49,510 plumbing, I probably would have done a disastrous work. 402 00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:54,750 But with the, you know, for, you know, like $5 for a package of 403 00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:58,450 screws. Right. It was the, the risk reward was, was pre, like, you know, if 404 00:24:58,450 --> 00:25:01,970 it's the wrong one, I go back and I return it. Yeah. Right. These days 405 00:25:01,970 --> 00:25:05,250 I'll spend more in gasoline, probably to drive back to the store. 406 00:25:07,010 --> 00:25:10,770 Unfortunately, yes, right now that is the case. Yes. Then, 407 00:25:10,930 --> 00:25:14,610 yeah, Then, then it would actually just be just, well, I have a box screws 408 00:25:14,610 --> 00:25:18,450 I'm not going to use. But I do, I do think though, 409 00:25:18,450 --> 00:25:20,850 like, so, like, how do you find it? Help you with, 410 00:25:22,690 --> 00:25:25,650 with, with your Jeep Wringer? Because I am, I am also, I'm kind of, 411 00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:30,510 I wouldn't say disgruntled. I would say a, I, I, 412 00:25:30,510 --> 00:25:34,270 I'm a car guy, right. I like, I like big Chevys and I cannot 413 00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:36,910 lie. And you know, I, 414 00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:40,950 about 10 years ago I had this, I guess you could call it a midlife 415 00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:44,590 crisis, I suppose. But I bought a 76 El Dorado 416 00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:49,310 and convertible and that thing. Car was beautiful. But I 417 00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:53,150 really overestimated my abilities and underestimated 418 00:25:53,150 --> 00:25:56,920 the cost of owning and was kind of like, well, I had my 419 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,720 fun with a classic car, so. But it's, and it was funny, right? Like 420 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,280 when you have the money, you don't have the time. When you have the time, 421 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,960 you don't really have the money. Right. So I found myself, 422 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,920 you know, when I got laid off. When I, When I got laid off, I 423 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,280 found myself with time and I was like, you know, 424 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,080 oh, God, but this is expensive. Yeah. 425 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,640 My. My exploits into a. So there's kind of two ways I've done in car, 426 00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:26,820 right? Yeah. There is the it's broken, I'm 427 00:26:26,820 --> 00:26:30,460 3,000 miles from home and I have to figure this out moment. Right? Right. 428 00:26:30,860 --> 00:26:34,700 So I've got a really good battery of friends who. We 429 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:38,020 all have different levels of mechanic. None of us are 430 00:26:38,020 --> 00:26:41,340 mechanics. Right? Right. We. We are all weekend 431 00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:45,060 warrior mechanics at best. And we've only 432 00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:48,900 been. We've only honed our skills over years of being stranded in 433 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:52,590 places or looking at spending $4,000 434 00:26:52,590 --> 00:26:55,790 in labor on something or giving it a whirl first. 435 00:26:56,190 --> 00:26:59,830 Right. You know, I look at how I spin over to 436 00:26:59,830 --> 00:27:03,270 AI with it is, you know, so the Chrysler, 437 00:27:03,270 --> 00:27:06,790 Chrysler can bus is behind the Jeep Wrangler, right. And it's got a pretty standard 438 00:27:06,790 --> 00:27:09,950 thing of codes and there's a lot of readers out there that read them. And, 439 00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:13,750 you know, it's. It's like you look at regular like corporate AI stuff. You 440 00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:17,550 gotta ground it, right. You gotta ground it. You gotta ground 441 00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:21,350 the silly thing before you do anything, whether it's cars and you go 442 00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:24,730 give all of the codes that are possibly there. And you pointed at a bunch 443 00:27:24,730 --> 00:27:28,370 of good troubleshooting websites and forums and boards you 444 00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:32,210 use again, coworker dispatch to go have it dig through a couple things and 445 00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:35,330 say, hey, you know, I found some stuff over here. Go figure out what the 446 00:27:35,330 --> 00:27:38,370 patterns are. You know, when you get down to things, there's always a bit of 447 00:27:38,370 --> 00:27:41,930 artist or artistic interpretation and 448 00:27:43,130 --> 00:27:46,490 good old physics that defeats an AI every day. 449 00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:49,950 Right. But at least gives you an idea to be able to go 450 00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:53,510 make that and I'll spin it over to your dryer comment to go make you 451 00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:57,270 buy three different bags of screws for a low cost of 452 00:27:57,270 --> 00:28:01,110 trial and error. And you find one works and you put the other two 453 00:28:01,110 --> 00:28:04,869 bags in the drawer that you'll probably never touch again except for 10 years 454 00:28:04,869 --> 00:28:08,550 down the road when you need that one screw. Right? Right. So, you know, there 455 00:28:08,550 --> 00:28:12,110 are places it works. There's places it's not if I super 456 00:28:12,110 --> 00:28:15,810 pivot for a minute. Right. If I go take a. Take that same thing 457 00:28:15,810 --> 00:28:19,450 we talked about with how we ground and look at cars and use good critical 458 00:28:19,450 --> 00:28:23,130 thinking and spin it over into like how we talk with corporations and how 459 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:25,010 to use AI and data stuff. 460 00:28:27,330 --> 00:28:30,769 When I left my previous organization, 461 00:28:31,330 --> 00:28:35,090 I did not have a job, right? I know I needed to 462 00:28:35,090 --> 00:28:38,730 do something in here, and I was waiting. I'm a big guy that 463 00:28:38,730 --> 00:28:42,410 believes in fate. I'm a big guy that believes in, and in. You know, 464 00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:46,170 when you put good juju out in the universe, like, like 465 00:28:46,410 --> 00:28:50,170 good things come back. So that's why, that's how I usually try to live things. 466 00:28:50,170 --> 00:28:53,450 And I took three months off and I'm like, all right, how the heck do 467 00:28:53,450 --> 00:28:57,290 I pivot this stuff around? You know, even three years ago, 468 00:28:57,290 --> 00:29:00,730 we're talking 20, 23. We all 469 00:29:00,810 --> 00:29:04,050 knew that AI wasn't brand new. It's been, it's been an 470 00:29:04,050 --> 00:29:07,210 academia for decades, right? We all know about 471 00:29:07,210 --> 00:29:10,970 grounding, we all know about all the things. Now it just became commercial. 472 00:29:10,970 --> 00:29:14,550 So it's not brand spanking. I was thinking, well, how do I ground 473 00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:18,470 my conversations with organizations 474 00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:22,190 to be able to take what we just talked about with the car and apply 475 00:29:22,190 --> 00:29:25,950 it toward how they want to move or move or change their top or bottom 476 00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:29,310 line? Or I'm talking to a friend of mine and they're trying to troubleshoot a 477 00:29:29,310 --> 00:29:32,990 lawnmower, right? You know, you gotta 478 00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:36,510 ground the stuff. So I came up with, you know, every organization has eight types 479 00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:40,190 of data. So we feed, you know, I've got a whole head, I got like 480 00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:43,910 a massive prompt that feeds that in. And then every, every one of those domains, 481 00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:47,490 every field to be relevant, reliable, revealing and reusable. Like every 482 00:29:47,490 --> 00:29:50,650 single data piece has to be that. And we feed that with a prompt over 483 00:29:50,650 --> 00:29:54,450 there. Then we feed some schemas and talk about stuff. But you know, again, with 484 00:29:54,450 --> 00:29:57,730 great power, with great power comes great responsibility. You have to be 485 00:29:57,730 --> 00:30:01,210 responsible and be critical in what you do. And then you can fix your lawnmower, 486 00:30:01,210 --> 00:30:04,690 fix your Jeep Wrangler, or fix the fact that your support 487 00:30:04,690 --> 00:30:08,250 department can't figure out X, Y and Z and 488 00:30:08,250 --> 00:30:12,050 communicate it to the customers. Right? Like, that's the whole chaotic brain 489 00:30:12,050 --> 00:30:15,320 side of things. You know, chaotic doesn't mean 490 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,160 messy. Chaotic means different or unpredictable. Right? 491 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,920 Or unpredictable. Right. I. One of 492 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,400 my superpowers is I can see commonalities across many 493 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,360 different, distinctly different areas that 494 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,200 are not normally tieable. Right? So 495 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,880 I don't know. That's my, kind of my personal walk in with this stuff. The 496 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,270 tools are fantastic. But if you've got a, 497 00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:45,230 if you've got a crazy brain, Frank, man, you can do 498 00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:48,950 some cool stuff right now. Oh, exactly. All the things that were 499 00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:52,230 Would have been a headwind before now. Tailwinds, 500 00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:55,589 right? Like, in terms of what, 501 00:30:56,790 --> 00:30:58,710 you know, just. It would be impractical 502 00:31:01,190 --> 00:31:04,790 to. To build out something like this. Like, you know, whether 503 00:31:04,790 --> 00:31:08,460 it's. Whether it's show dog, whether it's another tool. I have a command 504 00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:12,220 line tool I wrote like three, four years ago called Dingo that helps me 505 00:31:12,220 --> 00:31:16,020 write blogs, and it was a command line tool, right? So 506 00:31:16,020 --> 00:31:19,380 I'm not really, really the friendliest UI in the world, right? 507 00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:23,460 But I basically pointed Claude and I was like, here's the code base. 508 00:31:23,620 --> 00:31:27,100 I want this to be a web interface. And that's going to be another, you 509 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:30,820 know, another SaaS. Maybe it'll be the Dingo Tower in downtown Baltimore, who knows? 510 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:32,670 But the, 511 00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:37,950 The. The solving problems 512 00:31:38,350 --> 00:31:42,070 is what people pay for, right? And if I look at it this way, as 513 00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:45,150 a podcaster, as a blogger, as a content creator, as a marketer, 514 00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:49,390 as a technologist, right? I encounter a problem, 515 00:31:49,790 --> 00:31:52,710 I'll be like, you know, I should probably have AI see what it can do 516 00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:55,950 about this, right? Like, and that's how each one of these things was built, right? 517 00:31:55,950 --> 00:31:59,630 As, you know, as we were kind of building out something and trying to 518 00:31:59,630 --> 00:32:02,430 organize all the content from the different blog posts and 519 00:32:04,670 --> 00:32:08,030 podcast episodes and video clips that we make from them, 520 00:32:08,430 --> 00:32:11,630 we really was like, there really should be a tool to do this. And in 521 00:32:11,630 --> 00:32:14,550 the olden days would be like, yeah, let me get something out on the whiteboard 522 00:32:14,550 --> 00:32:17,550 or notebook. And then now I'm like, wait a minute, I can just tell it 523 00:32:17,550 --> 00:32:21,350 to Claude. And Claude will build it, right? And that's. I mean, it's fascinating. 524 00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:23,710 But you're right, you do have to exercise some common sense, right? 525 00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:28,900 And I don't think. I don't think everyone's kind of figured this out yet. I 526 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:32,260 think very few people, to your point, like, the people that are going to be 527 00:32:32,260 --> 00:32:36,020 the next Mark Benioffs are going to be the ones who figure this out first. 528 00:32:36,660 --> 00:32:39,860 And I don't think people. I think people are still stuck in that mode of, 529 00:32:39,860 --> 00:32:43,300 oh, my God, AI is going to take my job. Funny story, last. 530 00:32:43,620 --> 00:32:47,380 Last springtime, actually, there 531 00:32:47,380 --> 00:32:50,660 was a baby bird fell out of a nest, and my. I live in kind 532 00:32:50,660 --> 00:32:54,160 of a rural area now, and I'm like, I'm a city boy, right? Like, I 533 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,000 have no idea what this. What to do. So I basically, 534 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,760 you know, basically asked Chat GPT, like, what do I do? Like, what type of 535 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,560 bird is this? Like, you know, and it told me and it 536 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,720 gave me a list of resources. I called around and you know, the, 537 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,080 the baby bird was saved because, you know, 538 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,000 Chat GPT recognized what species was. And I said they're like, how did you know 539 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,330 to contact us? And I was like, oh, Chat GPT told me. Yeah, 540 00:33:21,650 --> 00:33:24,930 I was like. They were like, what? You know, it was a first for them. 541 00:33:24,930 --> 00:33:28,610 Which is pretty funny. Yeah, I mean, I mean, Frank, look, 542 00:33:28,850 --> 00:33:32,690 I don't know at this point, what, 15, 20 years ago we had the 543 00:33:32,690 --> 00:33:36,529 same, I mean, to be overly simplistic about this, right. 15, 20 544 00:33:36,529 --> 00:33:40,170 years ago it was Google, right? How'd you know to call us? 545 00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:43,970 Well, I Googled it. Googled, yeah, yeah. Now, I mean 546 00:33:43,970 --> 00:33:47,460 the, the tongue in cheek thing is my Google fu is strong. Wrong. Right. 547 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:52,700 I can find things faster, better, quicker on the first page than 548 00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:56,180 other people because we don't, we, we, you and I know how to structure queries. 549 00:33:56,500 --> 00:34:00,180 It's going to be the same thing with LLMs and, and 550 00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:04,140 I'll even just say, you know, AI is a very broad term. Right, Frank, you 551 00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:07,620 and all of our listeners know that too, right? AI is a very broad term. 552 00:34:07,940 --> 00:34:11,460 We're talking specifically around like the, the LLM generative 553 00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:15,060 AI side of ChatGPT and Claude and all that kind of stuff. Right? 554 00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:18,639 Like there's going to be a point where prompt 555 00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,239 generation and prompt engineering become second nature to the human. 556 00:34:22,959 --> 00:34:26,159 Just like Googling has become second nature for years. 557 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,279 For the last 15 or 20 years. We're going to get to that point and 558 00:34:30,279 --> 00:34:32,879 then there's going to be the next generation or evolution beyond that. 559 00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:37,319 You and I are able to build cool stuff with 560 00:34:37,319 --> 00:34:40,639 Claude code right now because we can at least 561 00:34:41,439 --> 00:34:45,029 half rear end prompt generate on the 562 00:34:45,029 --> 00:34:48,749 fly and can learn and see how it's reacting and go twist it 563 00:34:48,749 --> 00:34:52,589 and turn it and restart and give it queued messages to go to 564 00:34:52,589 --> 00:34:56,349 refine and tune it and respond to it. Right. We're 565 00:34:56,349 --> 00:35:00,069 learning in real time there. I mean, heck, there's college courses out about 566 00:35:00,069 --> 00:35:03,349 prompt generation. You know, I saw that two and a half years ago. There were, 567 00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:06,949 there were college courses out there and it's a good base to get. 568 00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:11,490 But that's, that's, it's, that's, you know, a long way around the bush 569 00:35:11,490 --> 00:35:15,210 talking around Frank about, you know, prop generations and Googling. Right? 570 00:35:15,370 --> 00:35:19,090 So when you're talking about the baby bird thing, it doesn't surprise me. 571 00:35:19,090 --> 00:35:22,010 It makes me smile. It's like, yeah, it's because Frank knows how to ask a 572 00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:25,810 question. I know how to pick a picture and send 573 00:35:25,810 --> 00:35:29,570 it to the AI. Well, it's true, 574 00:35:29,570 --> 00:35:33,290 like you mentioned 2023. Right. 2023. OpenAI 575 00:35:33,290 --> 00:35:37,020 looked untouchable. Oh, yeah. And look at the 576 00:35:37,020 --> 00:35:40,500 tool that we've spoken most about. Drops. Right, right. Chat TPT 577 00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,260 drops commercially in December of 22. And everyone stares 578 00:35:44,260 --> 00:35:47,820 at it like the baby bird that has fallen out of the tree sitting in 579 00:35:47,820 --> 00:35:51,660 your yard. And you're like, what do 580 00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:54,660 I do with this? Right. And 581 00:35:55,700 --> 00:35:59,380 not to get really queer, weird meta on your, on your reference there, 582 00:35:59,540 --> 00:36:03,390 but. But 23 was a wild year. 24 was 583 00:36:03,390 --> 00:36:06,710 wilder. 25 started to be able to give us like, 584 00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:10,390 actual stories about people making businesses out of 585 00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:13,310 this. Hell, I've made a business out of it. 586 00:36:13,710 --> 00:36:17,470 26 has no signs of slowing down. Right. 587 00:36:18,190 --> 00:36:21,950 Well, and, you know, I also think too, like, the dynamics of it. 588 00:36:21,950 --> 00:36:25,710 Right. You know, OpenAI looked untouchable for most of 2023. 589 00:36:27,650 --> 00:36:30,930 And here we are. The tool we've spoken most about has been 590 00:36:31,170 --> 00:36:34,290 Anthropics, you know, flagship Claude. Right. 591 00:36:35,330 --> 00:36:39,050 Now, the other ones kind of also are roughly peers. But I 592 00:36:39,050 --> 00:36:41,330 mean, in terms of adoption and 593 00:36:42,450 --> 00:36:45,570 preference, like, I think it's. People don't realize, like, 594 00:36:47,010 --> 00:36:49,490 this is still no 1. 595 00:36:51,490 --> 00:36:54,930 No 1 has really dominated the space just yet. Right. This is a lot, like, 596 00:36:54,930 --> 00:36:58,030 reminds me, you're old enough to remember the browser wars, right? Like, you know, 597 00:36:58,510 --> 00:37:02,350 Internet Explorer was the underdog. This is before Internet Explorer became the 598 00:37:02,350 --> 00:37:06,110 punchline to a joke. Right? So just 599 00:37:06,110 --> 00:37:09,830 time can change a lot of things. It's. I don't know, 600 00:37:09,830 --> 00:37:13,230 like, it'll be interesting to see how this pans out. I'm also excited about 601 00:37:13,230 --> 00:37:16,910 agentic stuff too. I don't. I have an open claw instance, but 602 00:37:16,910 --> 00:37:19,910 I kind of see the value, but I don't see what the rah rah hype 603 00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:23,590 is about. Oh, it's, it's, it's just starting, 604 00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:27,500 Garten. Right again. Yeah. The concept has been in academia, 605 00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:31,620 right. It's the, the minds are spinning it 606 00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:35,180 to commercial purposes and there's a lot of trial and error. 607 00:37:35,740 --> 00:37:38,820 I think I saw there was a. I, I could pull it up. I got 608 00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:42,140 it in one of my favorites here, there's a Gartner article about like, 80% of 609 00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:45,940 all agentic projects are doomed to fail and sit on the shelf because they didn't 610 00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:49,260 have the right outcomes in mind when they did it or the wrong technology 611 00:37:49,660 --> 00:37:53,300 or, or, or, or, or. Right. If I pick back to something 612 00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:56,940 you had just said ago a bit ago, you're, you're right. We're 613 00:37:56,940 --> 00:38:00,380 talking about Claude because you and I have, 614 00:38:00,620 --> 00:38:04,300 and people like us have really tied to Claude. 615 00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:08,620 And you know, this Isn't the, you know, after the Department of Defense, 616 00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:12,380 you know, the whole thing and the social before that. It's not that. Right. 617 00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:15,900 It's like you and I are using it because it speaks to us and we 618 00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:19,500 can speak to it and we're getting some cool stuff done. Right. This could be, 619 00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:23,340 you know, Gemini might come back out in a massive leap forward in six months. 620 00:38:23,420 --> 00:38:26,920 Right. Or pick your next company that we don't know about out right now 621 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,800 as a, as a, as a strategist and implementer in a 622 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,600 space that is so rapidly changing and I always miss this 623 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,320 up. Is it, is it Boyle's law or Moore's law? I 624 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,120 don't remember the name of the law, but it's the one that measured the progressive 625 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,840 technology over years by saying the number of transistors would double on a chip every 626 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,680 two years. You know, I, this is not an official statement. This is something 627 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,510 I just say. But you know, basically it's running on a monthly cycle right 628 00:38:52,510 --> 00:38:55,990 now. What was taking a two year cycle is now taking a one month 629 00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:59,790 if, if even that long cycle to jump. And one 630 00:38:59,790 --> 00:39:03,510 of the biggest challenges that I have been, 631 00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:08,109 I have, I have always got tripped up a little bit on and then 632 00:39:08,109 --> 00:39:11,510 always think about as a strategist, implementer is I 633 00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:15,110 cannot bind anything that I'm doing to one specific 634 00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:18,640 company, technology or model. Right. 635 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,280 You have to be able to abstract those concepts far enough to be able to 636 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,680 say, I need an LLM here that does X, Y and Z 637 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,840 and build it in a modular way where, you know, it might be GPT 638 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,640 5.2 right now. And then I'm going to swap in 639 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,040 Sonnet for this and I'm going to swap in Llama for that. And 640 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,680 I'm going to do this and continue to grow. Being able to effectively 641 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,320 articulate that as a business owner, Frank, to do stuff for yourself 642 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,440 or, or as a customer, being able to say, hey, you know, 643 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,920 you're gonna, I'm gonna charge you a bunch of money to go do this thing 644 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,480 and we're gonna go play with this stuff and we're gonna build something really cool 645 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,120 and it's gonna bring ROI and it's gonna move our. It's gonna, there's our 646 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,840 defined outcomes, here's how we're gonna get there. Oh, and it's on technology that's 647 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,680 gonna literally shift every month. How do we plan for that? 648 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,680 Like that, to me is one of the biggest challenges right now 649 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,240 to be able to snap 650 00:40:13,130 --> 00:40:16,650 based on the technology we have. We're going to have about a 60 month. 60. 651 00:40:16,730 --> 00:40:20,530 Not 60 month, no 60 day build cycle before this 652 00:40:20,530 --> 00:40:24,170 thing comes out all the way into your production environment. But 653 00:40:24,410 --> 00:40:28,050 on day 61, while it runs off and 654 00:40:28,050 --> 00:40:31,610 meets the outcomes that we had, we're going to be talking about version 2 already. 655 00:40:31,770 --> 00:40:35,570 Not because something is completely outdated, not 656 00:40:35,570 --> 00:40:39,410 working. It's because there's that much new that has come out in 60 days that 657 00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:43,220 could make our outcomes even better. Better. Right. It's an odd 658 00:40:43,220 --> 00:40:46,900 balance and it's an, Honestly, it's a, it's a mind shift 659 00:40:47,220 --> 00:40:50,580 with companies that have been dealt with Salesforce for years or 660 00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:54,420 dealt with Microsoft Dynamics for years that they'll, they, they talk about, 661 00:40:54,820 --> 00:40:58,340 you know, quarterly or annual value improvement 662 00:40:58,340 --> 00:41:02,060 cycles. Frank, the stuff we're talking about is monthly. It's 663 00:41:02,060 --> 00:41:05,700 insane. Right? I mean that's, I can easily see it going even more 664 00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:09,510 granular than monthly. Right? Yeah. I don't know when, but like it, you know, 665 00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:13,670 it. I, you know, sales software cycles used to be what, 666 00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:17,030 three years, then 18 months, then 12 months, then quarterly. 667 00:41:17,350 --> 00:41:21,070 I mean there's no, really no, I'm sure 668 00:41:21,070 --> 00:41:24,870 there's a practical upper limit, but I, I think we still got 669 00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:28,510 a lot more headroom. Oh, Frank. Frankly, the, the, the 670 00:41:28,510 --> 00:41:31,830 ultimate limiter is going to be the human ability to adapt to change. 671 00:41:32,310 --> 00:41:36,080 Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. Right. I mean, you're right. I mean I 672 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,840 just put out a response to a massive RFP that I've 673 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,560 got more change management people than I have 674 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,280 technical people. I've never done that before, Frank. But 675 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,080 that's where, right, it's, it's. I need to be able to 676 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,120 change hearts and minds and the way people think and the way that people see 677 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,880 outcomes rapidly enough in a corporate 678 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,600 setting to be able to accommodate the change, not just put it 679 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,420 in and let you know, internal change management or governance. Right. It. Or business 680 00:42:05,420 --> 00:42:08,900 leaders take it like we actually need a fleet of change managers. 681 00:42:10,420 --> 00:42:13,580 That sounds absurd, but the more I think about it, the more I think that's 682 00:42:13,580 --> 00:42:17,420 smart. Right. At first blush you're like, well, that sounds kind of. Oh 683 00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:21,260 yeah, I see why I couldn't even finish the thought. The 684 00:42:21,260 --> 00:42:24,100 sentence in my head was like, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 685 00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:29,220 It's a crazy time, man. Yeah, it's like the old 686 00:42:29,220 --> 00:42:32,780 playbook, while not completely like useless, is definitely, definitely need some 687 00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:36,520 updates. You know, history is always 688 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,720 the best teacher. Right, right. You know, now you just have 689 00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:44,440 to compress your history time scales. You don't 690 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,400 compress your history lessons. You know, 691 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,920 we both, I guarantee you, we've Both been through 692 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,800 36 month SAP implementations at different organizations. Right, 693 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,980 right. And even the change management. But once you intrude, 694 00:43:02,050 --> 00:43:05,170 entrench people in that, you know, I mean you. 695 00:43:05,490 --> 00:43:09,330 They're not changing. Lord, they're not changing. Right. 696 00:43:09,330 --> 00:43:12,130 But now you're taking things like I just built 697 00:43:12,850 --> 00:43:16,570 an account, an accounting, I'm not going to say I built accounting system because 698 00:43:16,570 --> 00:43:20,250 that's dumb, but built an accounting helper to be able to do 699 00:43:20,250 --> 00:43:23,890 things and trying to introduce that into a regulated or 700 00:43:24,290 --> 00:43:28,090 any type of industry that has hardcore rules that they 701 00:43:28,090 --> 00:43:31,770 have to answer to, like you have to change hearts and minds. The 702 00:43:31,770 --> 00:43:35,620 tech is easy. The tech's the easy part. How change management is the 703 00:43:35,620 --> 00:43:38,500 hardest part. Yeah, it's a good way to put it because like, you know, 704 00:43:39,940 --> 00:43:43,540 one of the things I think that has been exposed through the use of, 705 00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:47,380 you know, AI generated code is that generating 706 00:43:47,380 --> 00:43:51,100 code isn't the only thing that software developers do. They solve 707 00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:54,740 problems, they have to talk through problems. Right. I spend probably 708 00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:58,500 most of my time interacting with any of these AI tools 709 00:44:00,110 --> 00:44:03,910 trying to solve a problem. Right. Or when you do solve a problem 710 00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:07,550 that, you know the engineering discipline of, when you solve a 711 00:44:07,550 --> 00:44:10,990 problem, you have certain trade offs which trade off matters to you. 712 00:44:11,790 --> 00:44:15,349 Right. As kind of like some of them are hard, some of those are not 713 00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:19,150 hard, difficult, but like kind of just physical limitations versus some 714 00:44:19,150 --> 00:44:22,550 of those are mental limitations. Right. In terms of how you design a ui. Well, 715 00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:26,240 you know, if you call it this, then you. That's at the 716 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:29,880 expense of that. And then it's just a lot of trade offs in 717 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,720 conversations, which is what I find myself looking at. Most 718 00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,360 of the interactions I've had with these tools have been 719 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,680 mostly talking through the trade offs. Yeah, 720 00:44:40,999 --> 00:44:44,200 we used to, we did the same thing for years, Frank, just at a slower 721 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,560 pace. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean this would be like a meeting you would have 722 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,320 every week or two now. Now you're having it in the half 723 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,840 an hour that you're working with Claude and, and a, 724 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,250 a business representative to be able to ground you on outcomes. 725 00:44:58,410 --> 00:45:01,250 Oh, shoot. Okay, now I got to think of this and this and this and 726 00:45:01,250 --> 00:45:04,170 now we've got identity and access we have to worry about. We got to worry 727 00:45:04,170 --> 00:45:07,290 about this UI piece and this ux and we have this ux. We have to 728 00:45:07,290 --> 00:45:10,250 worry about this and that and this and that. You're literally making 729 00:45:10,410 --> 00:45:14,250 changes as fast as that into your, into your plan mode and 730 00:45:14,250 --> 00:45:17,970 Claude to put out something that somebody can 731 00:45:17,970 --> 00:45:21,690 poke with a stick. Right. And then they can poke it 732 00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:25,250 enough with A stick and it works just fine. Then like talking about your friend 733 00:45:25,250 --> 00:45:28,160 the, the, I'll call it the again, 734 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,880 older and haggard software architect who's built things 735 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,560 very well as a living. Like eventually 736 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,400 Claude is never going to replace those individuals 737 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,280 at scale, right? All we're doing is getting the 738 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,040 next alpha or the next beta or the next 739 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,800 stable piece out there. And then if somebody needs to harden that, then you need 740 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,600 to put real process around. How do I properly secure this? 741 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,120 Because I mean Frank, the 742 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,560 spoken and whispered in corners is 743 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,640 data, right? We're making these applications 744 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,960 and you're a smart guy, I'm a pretty smart guy. 745 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,720 Together we're smarter together, right? We don't 746 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,800 automatically cover everything. Claude leaves a hole here and there, 747 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,080 right. I was talking with this 748 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:25,840 absolutely brilliant woman who was trying to pull an application to market 749 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,340 and I eventually I talked with her for a good like six sixty days about 750 00:46:29,340 --> 00:46:33,140 ideating through this thing. And it got to a point where we were collecting so 751 00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:36,900 much private information about an individual for a good 752 00:46:36,900 --> 00:46:40,580 reason, right. But it automatically puts a big old target on your 753 00:46:40,580 --> 00:46:44,180 back. And I said, you know, we're gonna have to alpha through this 754 00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:48,020 thing, get a workable, a workable prototype, get a couple people to 755 00:46:48,020 --> 00:46:51,820 trust us enough to put stuff in here and have it secured 756 00:46:51,820 --> 00:46:55,610 and disconnected in a way where I'm not gonna risk their stuff. But 757 00:46:55,610 --> 00:46:58,010 then I'm going to need to put a security architect on this where to put 758 00:46:58,010 --> 00:47:01,490 these layers. We're going to spend a quarter million dollars to get sock to a 759 00:47:01,490 --> 00:47:05,170 compliance to make sure that we hold this thing right. You know, I've 760 00:47:05,170 --> 00:47:08,610 never gone from idea to a Sock2 conversation 761 00:47:08,770 --> 00:47:12,610 in 60 days and I ended up walking away from that 762 00:47:12,610 --> 00:47:16,410 because of the data. Chance was, was so big, 763 00:47:16,410 --> 00:47:19,990 but even, I mean, and that, that was, that was like gathering 764 00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:24,060 will information and bills and things like that. Like, like really 765 00:47:24,220 --> 00:47:27,900 like potentially harmful information if somebody got that in the wrong hands. But 766 00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:31,740 you think about your company CRM, right? We talked about 767 00:47:31,740 --> 00:47:35,260 Salesforce a minute ago. We can go put up, we can go stand up an 768 00:47:35,260 --> 00:47:38,060 agentix CRM in a week 769 00:47:38,860 --> 00:47:42,060 to be able to have somebody log into it through a, you know, through a, 770 00:47:42,380 --> 00:47:45,580 you know, login through Google, Microsoft, sso, all that kind of stuff. 771 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,320 But, and I know I'll stop, I'll get off my soapbox here in a moment 772 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,360 because I know we're coming to the close of our time here, Frank, but the 773 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,600 one of the, you know, we talked about change managers. A big thing I want 774 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,480 our listeners to walk away with here is to think about that piece. The second 775 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,320 is data security. You know, just because you can doesn't mean 776 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:06,000 you should. Right? There 777 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,600 is. There is such a market in people's data 778 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,880 and the tools that we have are so awesome, but they. We 779 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,680 in our, in our, in our absolute happy path. Exuberance. To be able to 780 00:48:17,980 --> 00:48:21,580 solve a problem, you always should have assigned 781 00:48:21,580 --> 00:48:25,380 tag to your wall that says, what about the data? Because the last 782 00:48:25,380 --> 00:48:29,140 thing you want to do is to have this awesome thing that solves a 783 00:48:29,140 --> 00:48:32,860 perfect problem and then somebody gets wiggled 784 00:48:32,860 --> 00:48:36,660 through an unsecured API and downloads your data. 785 00:48:36,660 --> 00:48:40,460 I don't care if it's your company's CRM, which is frankly, a CRM is pretty. 786 00:48:40,460 --> 00:48:43,820 I mean, you're assembling it for public information, for God's sakes. Right, 787 00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:47,680 Right. You know, much less anything that has financial data data, or much less anything 788 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,440 that has personal identifiable data or health data or health data. 789 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,800 Dear God. Right? Like there is a whole bunch of stuff that we are barreling 790 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,640 toward. And like, like I've got right at my eyeline 791 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,040 up here, I have five pieces of paper that have immutable 792 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,440 concerns that I always have because I can glance up over my 793 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,400 monitors and I can see them and I can see. Well, how do I manage 794 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,120 my Outlook inbox? Right. I'm an inbox zero guide, Frank. 795 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,220 Like, here's my inbox zero stuff. Then I've got what about the data? And then 796 00:49:15,220 --> 00:49:18,100 I've got a couple other things up here as well. Topics for a future thing. 797 00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:21,900 Andy's weird things on the wall. But, you know, it's 798 00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:25,140 just one more piece I wanted to talk about. Here is. Is, you know, again, 799 00:49:25,140 --> 00:49:28,900 with great power comes great responsibility. Just stop and think about what you're making. 800 00:49:29,060 --> 00:49:32,500 Right. Right. Yeah. All right, Frank. I'm off my box, bud. 801 00:49:33,060 --> 00:49:36,500 No, no, I think it's important. It's. It's important. Sometimes soapboxes, 802 00:49:36,660 --> 00:49:40,300 you have to have those soapbox moments, particularly around data security, data 803 00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:44,110 quality, data provenance. I guess that's what the cool kids 804 00:49:44,110 --> 00:49:47,710 are calling it now. There needs to be. Sorry. I have 805 00:49:47,710 --> 00:49:49,910 docs and puppies who are wrestling in the background. 806 00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:56,390 It's that kind of day. Kids are off from school and all that. 807 00:49:57,670 --> 00:50:01,350 Appliances breaking down. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria. Mass 808 00:50:01,350 --> 00:50:02,150 hysteria. 809 00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:08,550 Where can folks find out? I'd love to have you back on the show 810 00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:13,050 because I think that we barely scratched the surface. Because an 811 00:50:13,050 --> 00:50:16,210 interesting perspective on, you know, not just how, because 812 00:50:16,450 --> 00:50:20,130 billions of YouTube videos, you know, tell you how to do it, but 813 00:50:20,130 --> 00:50:23,450 like the why, the what and the constraints and the issues that you'll come up 814 00:50:23,450 --> 00:50:26,450 with. I think this has been a very enlightening conversation. 815 00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:30,210 Love to have you back on the show. And we'll have two Andy's on the 816 00:50:30,210 --> 00:50:33,810 show and you know, that'll be, that'll be interesting experience. 817 00:50:34,050 --> 00:50:37,570 And where can folks find out about, more about you and kind of what you're 818 00:50:37,570 --> 00:50:41,330 up to these days? I mean, frankly, the two biggest places is 819 00:50:41,330 --> 00:50:45,080 of course, my LinkedIn profile. Like I'll spout out a random thing here 820 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,160 or there. You know, even a blind squirrel finds another every now and then on 821 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,000 LinkedIn. Right. Frank, what I'm really trying to do is my website, 822 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,720 doubletrack.com I'm working with my marketing people, so I 823 00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:59,000 try not to do anything in a vacuum because they get angry at that. But 824 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,320 I'll work with my marketing people to put out good, 825 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,680 impactful tools, utilities, 826 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,600 questionnaires, things like that. Like you said, Frank, 827 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,160 there's, there's millions of people right now that have YouTube videos out there. 828 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,800 Everyone's telling you how and how cool it is and how fast, but 829 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,920 no one's going to come to my website for that. They're going to come for 830 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,760 the, the alternate point or the part that says, oh, nobody actually asked 831 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,800 me that question before. That's what I'm trying to put out on my website. 832 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,320 DoubleTrack.com is a bunch of those type of things. So, 833 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,200 you know, if you want to go and just kind of challenge your own brain 834 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,680 or, you know, even if you're talking to Claude, say, what am I missing 835 00:51:40,750 --> 00:51:44,390 missing? Ever done that before, Frank? Have you ever asked it like, what am I 836 00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:48,110 missing? What am I not thinking of? What are the holes? What is the anti 837 00:51:48,110 --> 00:51:51,710 design pattern that I need to do? That's kind of my 838 00:51:51,710 --> 00:51:55,390 mode when I come into this is I'm always challenging myself and 839 00:51:55,390 --> 00:51:59,070 others about what are you not thinking about? What should 840 00:51:59,070 --> 00:52:02,870 you be thinking about? That's. So to answer your question, Frank looked at my 841 00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:06,670 LinkedIn, weird things come out there. Look at my website, more structured things 842 00:52:06,670 --> 00:52:10,380 come out there. I would absolutely love to come back on, on, on your show 843 00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:14,300 and talk about crazy stuff. I, you know, I 844 00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:18,020 promise I won't get too crazy or too weird. I read 845 00:52:18,020 --> 00:52:21,700 a lot of weird books. So. Hey, man, when, when the going gets tough, 846 00:52:21,700 --> 00:52:24,780 when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. Yes, they do. 847 00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:30,620 All right. And with that, we'll end the show. Okay.