Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes, you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom. Or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.

This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials, and me, Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out. We are back. It is Bathroom Mania, otherwise known as Bathroom Break. This is Jay Schwedelson. I'm here with the marketing millennial, Daniel Murray. Daniel, I got a question for you before we get started. I know you play tennis and all, but, like, are you lazy beyond tennis? Will you just sit on the couch and just stare at your tv or are you a super active dude? You're like, all right, not only tennis, but I'm going to go and do yoga. I'm going to go and bench press £7 billion. Like, what's your vibe? Are you a super active dude?

Great question. I always strive to get 10,000 steps a day just because I think I just like being out outside. I grew up, my family wasn't really a academic family. It was more like, hey, send you to all these sports camps. Send you to everything outdoors that you can. So I've been used to it, but the. The only. The only sports sport I play now is tennis. Otherwise, I'm just gonna go for a walk to just calm down, get my thoughts, get fresh air. So. But otherwise, the other than that, I'm. I don't. I'm pretty lazy. Also lifting, too. I do lift, but not intensely. It's like 20 minute, 30 minute left. So it's not like going, I don't go ham. What about you?

So I try to be active. You know, my problem is my wife is in crazy good shape and always stressed me out. She's like, let's go for a run together. And then like, within, like, two minutes, she's like, way ahead of me and it's embarrassing. Or if we go to, like, let's say there's a workout class, and if we actually go to it together, she always gets annoyed with me because I won't be in the position next to her. I'll, like, be like five people away. She's like, we're married. You should be next to me in the workout class. But she's crushing it, and. And I suck. And so my rule is, if we go anywhere, do anything, like, physically active together, I have to be far away because I'm so embarrassed by how big of a loser I am. So I try, but I am. I. I am incompetent, inept, terrible. That's the truth.

I. I just could imagine you just being in a different, like, I don't know, you in this workout class. We're going to go in there, you walk in five minutes before me 100%.

That's exactly what happens. All right, let's jump into this. Talking about data and working out and metrics. We're talking about qualitative and quantitative stuff. Daniel, kick us off. What are we talking about?

Yeah, I just want to. Jay does this really well, and I think you can. It's really important in content to share data publicly. If you're doing research internally, whether it's qualitative or quantitative, sharing it in your content just creates a level of credibility and expertise to another level because it shows you actually are thinking deeply on this. But we were talking about this before the episode, and Jay does something cool. He used to put out huge reports on just all these stats that you should do for email marketing and how to improve. But now he doesn't do that anymore. So he has a different strategy. And I wanted to get on the podcast for him to share how, what he does and why it works. Because it works really well.

Yeah. So what we. Because of my agency, we do a lot of not just email campaigns, but market campaigns in general. We set up what we call a research group. And every time we do campaigns at scale, we're trying to capture what works, what doesn't work. We used to put out these big quarterly reports, like, everybody does this report or this guy, this whatever, and you put it out once a quarter and you try to get people to download it. And that was fine. But what we realized was if we, instead of putting out these reports, which always seem dated after like a few weeks or a month, if we just drip out the individual stats and we use those as kind of these bite sized, shareable things in emails that we send out in social posts that we do, the level of engagement that we would get by dripping it out and not making it all available in one report, it gave us exponential engagement. So I think that sometimes you have to look at things and do it the opposite way. You don't need to release these big reports to get the extreme value. So that's the path, you know, that we've gone down. What do you think about kind of like this, this snackable, quantitative, qualitative stuff?

I just think about we're in the age of shareability. I always think when I put out a piece of content or anything is would I share this? My filters, would I share this in a group chat with my marketing friends? And the reason why I think your technique words and why you should share either quotes or stats or interesting stuff is a little snackable piece of content like emojis. Lift your subject line by 33% someone's going to screenshot that and send it to a friend or send it in a, in the, in a Slack channel and then your content is floating in in the dark social world. A big report if you send it to someone. Just think about ebooks in general. Like we used to be very gated content and marketing. But when someone downloads a report, probably 10% of those people actually read the report and then they don't have time to take a snapshot out of that report to send it to someone. So you need to make it easier for people to share things. That's what I think. Like now with content, make it so simple that if someone send it to someone else, they can get the information in two to three seconds. And that's what I think about every piece of content I put out.

Yeah. And also I think that you have to think about if you are putting out content that you want people to download. Okay, what are you actually calling that content? Right. Because there's no content police out there. Like Daniel, when is the last time you downloaded an e book and you actually read it?

I don't even think I've downloaded so many ebooks, but I, I don't, don't read ebooks. Luckily like ChatGPT is around now that you could just tell it to skim it for you. But it's just no ebooks. Ebooks are just nobody has time for them. Only the deep like only those marketers who really, really need to get something out of it or like want to write an article on some stat you wrote are going to read it. Other than that, no markers taking the time to read a whole report these days.

So let's talk about other type of metrics though. So we talk about research and organizing things. So you put out a lot of social content. How closely are you all analyzing these posts generated these views, these comments, these shares? Or is that data not really that valuable to your organization?

No, it's really. I like to look at what topics are getting the most amount engage. I do this with the podcast. I do this with social post. I do this with emails. What content is getting, like, subject lines are getting the most open based on the content we're putting in that, that, that article. What, what posts are getting shared on Instagram? Because Instagram, every platform has a different metric on Instagram. Looking at chairs on LinkedIn, I'm looking at. At likes and comments on podcasts, I'm looking at downloads, but I'm looking at. For finding out the topics that hit for my audience. And then I'm creating more and more of that content. So if I see it works, I'm gonna keep doubling down and also look at what, what flops. Or could it. Is it because of the headline I did or the topic? So I'll retest things to see if it will work again. I mean, if it doesn't work after two to three times, I just say, maybe that's not a content my audience likes and it's okay to just put it on the shelf and never use it again. I just. The whole goal with my creating content with me is finding. Getting closer to creating topics that people want to listen to and hear and read and consume.

So I'm curious about something because I struggle with something. How much do you value your own opinion? What I mean by that is, let's say I have a meme. I think it's funny. Okay, I put it out there. People don't really dig it, right? Then there's something else I'll put out there that I don't think is particularly good, but it crushes it. And I'm always like, I don't know if I want to put stuff out there that I don't actually like. That's hard for me. How much do you factor in what Daniel Murray thinks about a particular piece of content?

I think it depends on the medium. Like, what I mean by that is like, on social, like, the goal. And I've said this in multiple episodes, but the goal is to get attention for me. So I really just want to put. If someone's liking those pieces of content, that means the audience likes that content. I don't like people. People want people to stay on LinkedIn, like, or the platform. So it works. When it comes to newsletter, I'm a little more picky because that's like, I brought them into my world. Now I want to show my deep, deeper expertise. So what I write in the newsletter, I'm a little more picky of. Like, this doesn't sound like what I'M do like me and authentically me. But when I put it on social, my goal is, hey, could I get as much attention as possible to bring people in my newsletter and podcast? So that's my filter, if that's helpful. But I don't think. I also think people overthink. Like, you're not. The goal of marketing is not to put out your personal journal that you think is cool. Like, you're going. Marketing is to give people what they want. And that's the goal. And if you don't like what they want, then switch topic. Like go into a different field or go into a different topic. Because the goal is to put out what they want, not what you want.

Yeah. And it's really, I think it's important. I always try to have the frame of mind that I am not my audience. I'm part of my audience. I'm part of who I'm marketing to. I'm one of many. But I am not the entire community, the entire audience. And you want to share something that is useful to everybody as much as that you can, even if it's not something that is spot on for you specifically. And I think that people get too close to it sometimes. All right, so before we wrap up, what, what now you're. You're traveling again? You're on the, you're on the mode of traveling again, are you, do you like traveling?

Depends what it's for. But I'm the kind of person who get kind of antsy staying in one place for too long, so I need, I need the quick trip so quick to get it, get it out of me.

But do you drive your, like, do you drive a car around a lot?

Where I live right now, there's, there's so many cool places close to me that, you know, we'll go for like 20, 30 minute drive here or an hour drive here. But I, I, my mom, I grew up with a mom who owned a, a travel company when I was in South Africa. So my, like, travel was like in my blood from day one. So it's like I can't shake it because I got that bug and it just never went away. What about you? You homebody.

Wait, so you, how old were you when you moved out of South Africa?

I moved from South Africa at 7.

Did you go in, like, I know the dumbest question in the world, but, like, do people like you like safaris on the weekend? Is how you do?

I mean, not.

Is that the dumbest question I've ever asked?

No, but we live probably Two hours from, like, a game park, which is, like, where you go safari. So, like, we would go for trips, or you can go drive, like, Kruger National Park. You can drive your own car through the safari, and there's, like, elephants and lions and wow, like, walking around. It's actually nutty. But whoever hasn't done that in their lifetime, you should go do it. It's an experience. It's so fun. It's crazy to be out there. And it's not like going to the zoo. So stop thinking that the zoo is like that. Go out in real nature and see it.

All right, we're gonna do a deep dive on Daniel's safari. Hot takes coming up on the next Bathroom Break. Get excited. All right, everybody. Thanks for being here. Daniel, come on, man. I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for Marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.

Later, Daniel. Come on, man. I got to get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there, this is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that for Marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing, and I hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Mark and Millennials podcast, but also tune into the series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.

Later.