Welcome everyone to Spiritist Conversations, a show

where we sit down with friends to talk about Spiritist perspectives,

about everything in our lives in an informal, unscripted, and unplugged way.

I am Dana Sisi, and I am thrilled to be joined here today by my

friend Susanna Simons and fla.

How are you guys doing?

Hello everyone.

Nice to be here with you again.

Hello.

Hello.

Doing great.

Dan and Sue.

Good to see you guys once again.

So happy to be here.

Very happy to be here today.

We have a wonderful conversation.

Passes.

What are spiritist passes is a topic that comes up quite often.

It's something that spiritists do frequently.

It's very popular, so we figured we might have to take

a little bit of a time, right?

Just to talk about it and explain what it is and just maybe learn

a thing or two with someone who can maybe share some perspectives

that we're, might not be used to.

You guys ready?

Yes, let's do this.

All right, so let's bring our friend, Dr.

Son Sonya, thank you for being here with us today.

Hi.

Hello.

My great friends.

It's an honor to be with you in the show and to talk about classes.

Yeah, it's exciting.

Yep.

We're just gonna do what we do, which is dive straight into it.

And the conversation today it's gonna be fantastic because

it's such an important topic.

And we can just dive straight into the conversation.

So guys, what are passes?

That's a million dollar question.

Silence.

Good thing we have a guest today.

Huh?

What do you guys think?

And we should, we should, yeah.

Let's ask the guest.

Let's toss the guest right under the bus.

Right.

But, uh, before we do that, we should also say Dr.

Sonya Doy is the president of the US Spirits Medical Association.

And obviously a spiritist too.

So we thought it would be great to bring somebody who has a medical background

and a spiritist background to explain to us a little bit, not only how or

what passes could be, but what is the medical base for the efficacy of passes.

Is that something that we just do in the Spirit Center

because it's part of Spiritism?

Does it actually help us get better?

Is there any proof to it?

How does that all come about?

So we figured it would add that to the mix.

Not that our ESTEEM panel of hosts here couldn't potentially talk about

this, but I think Susanna Flavi will agree that the three of us probably

couldn't go to the depth of knowledge when the medical staff that Sonya

could potentially do Absolutely not

agreed.

What she's here with us, right?

Yeah,

that's right.

That's right.

So what are passes?

So you want me to dive into it or you guys wanna store?

Talk

about,

imagine if you met somebody in the subway,

in, let's see, Washington.

That person told, I asked you what I thought I saw you talk about bass.

What that thing again?

30 seconds before the next stop.

Why would you tell that

person?

Oh my goodness.

Yeah, I think this is it, it's a question that comes to us in the Spirit

Center every time there's a new person in and, uh, it's not uncommon that a

new person comes to the Spirit Center and has never heard about passes.

We, you usually start by defining passes as is defined in Spiritism.

And it, it has a kind of scientific meaning to it too because as defined

by the, by Francisco, it says that a transfusion of energy that are capable

of changing the cellular fields so that energy that is infused to the person.

Through their en energy fields are capable of affecting in a good

way, the cellular, the tissues, the organs, not only the per spiritual

say body, but also the physical body.

And that leads to a good, a better mental state and physical state, spiritual state.

So there's several different I would say benefit of it in the whole person.

Not only the physical person, but in the spiritual component of each one.

So that's what I would say the spirit, this approach, the spirit, this

explanation of passages we usually relate because a lot of people, and

I think you guys have usually hear this what is the difference between

passes and reiki or passes and jury or passes and healing hands.

So we usually explain that they are all approach similar approaches, and

they are now under, they belong to a category of healing processes, healing

practices that are under the name biofield therapy or energy medicine.

And.

And this is, accepted and there's so many papers coming out now with

all these different practices.

However, with passes, because passes are not well known here in the states, the

scientific papers the scientific data for passes are coming from Brazil, from

physicians, British physicians in Brazil.

But in, anyways, they are very similar in the approach here.

So there are nonconventional approaches to therapy that include

contact and non-contact practices.

Oh my goodness.

That's so much.

Oh, we unpack right there.

Yeah, I was break.

I wasn't break breaking apart.

Before we get to efficacy, may maybe go back to basics, right?

Hashtag back to the basics.

Right?

Yeah, I have, I have just, just like before we even dive

too deep into anything, just something before even your basic there, let me

just ask this to sign into all of you.

What is the closest term in English to passes us, we know, understand, and

practice it in the spiritual center?

What would you guys say?

That is a great idea, Susan.

I'll take a stab of it.

I think that for those who may be unfamiliar with passes, the closest

would be a couple of different terms.

We have the laying on of hands, right, which are familiar

within the Christian tradition.

We have reiki that Dr.

Doy just mentioned as well.

But I think that for me, the laying on of hands is the closest to the

Christian and traditional tradition.

Traditional tradition is that I said it, you heard it here, guys.

You heard it here first.

Let's go back and edit that afterwards.

Yeah, I, I would agree.

I would agree with that.

And I think that that's important for us to say.

Yeah, I think that's an important point to start because we take for

granted that people have a sense of what we are talking about.

Right.

And this is not an English term.

So start by, you know, putting a term that people can relate more closely.

I think it's a good start.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

And I think that's a great point that you're bringing Sue, because

the name passes comes from the passing of hands over mm-hmm.

A person, right?

Right.

So if you were to walk into a spiritist group, this is something that we

generally do with spiritist groups.

Sometimes we do at homes with our families too.

It's this laying on of hands where in the spiritist groups,

we're not touching people.

There's no contact there generally.

And we are basically sending those good energies that Dr.

Sonya Doy talked about.

And I'm gonna call her Sonya.

Is that okay, Sonya?

That, that's, otherwise I'm gonna be Dr.

Do Dr.

Sonia Doy please.

Let's

here, please call me Sonya.

I'm sorry,

go ahead now.

Go ahead.

I cut you off.

Yeah I completely agree with that.

And here in these states, uh, there's a practice of called Therapeutic Touch

that is used by many nurses in different hospitals, and they are not particularly

related to any religion, although they might be calling it spiritual, but they

are more like practices of compassion and love and peace and intent of healing.

So they're known as healing practices and several hospitals use that as

healing hands or therapeutic search.

And so this is well known.

And as you mentioned here, Reiki is also among all the other, is a little

different, but is also a, another practice that belongs to the energy medicine.

Great point.

So when you hear, when I was gonna say really quickly I'm just gonna

talk over a flag cuz that's what I do.

I think that, you know, from now on, whenever you hear the word passes

here, you know that we're talking about this laying on of hands.

Mm-hmm.

That we just basically translated into the passes you know, a passing of hand.

They become passes and you might hear some Brazilian is called Pai.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Which is the Brazilian term, but it's basically the passes the passing of

hands over, which is actually a tradition that on the western world goes back to

Maser too, and magnetism and so forth.

And even before, we're gonna park that aside and we're gonna bring it to Flavi

because I have also interrupted him.

Flavio.

It's okay.

Welcome

to the club.

I was gonna ask us to,

I was say, just kidding, just kidding.

Differences

between, as we

Jesus started 2000 years,

ah, you know, that could be a whole different program.

But I love that.

But it's, I think that we go for simplicity.

What do you think, Sue?

I think that's, they're not very un, un unrelated.

No.

And in fact, I think that we draw a.

You know, our practices and Jesus is our primary reference.

So when we think about a number of topics we go back to the way that

Jesus did and how he practiced.

Because he used the greatest of all doctors, the highest of

all therapists and the master.

So he is for us this higher reference.

And so he did that.

He taught us by precisely laying on his hands over the sick and healing.

And we can get, a little deeper here and say, getting into issues

like, did he need to do that or not?

But I don't think it's the point of today, but he's our reference.

And so we.

We understand that we are all energy and that love is, can be moved, can

be transmitted in the form of energy.

And so the same way he did, we seek to do the same with our humble contribution.

But I think that's as I said, it's the reference, it's the

starting point for all of us

and that's great and starting point.

Yeah, I think it's a great perspective, Sue.

And I think that is the way I would frame this up too, like the end too

is the way we use that in Spiritism is to help us rebalance and heal.

Right.

So it's not uncommon for you if you go to a spiritist group

to have a talk, an activity.

And some of our activities will have a moment of passes at the end where folks

will be invited to either stand, you know, stay in the chair if they want to

receive the passes, or maybe they will be taken to a passes chamber, like a little

room, which quieter for reflection too.

And we're gonna have somebody, some volunteers come and do this

laying on our hands for them while they pray and they reflect.

And the idea is that it will help us heal, right?

Will help us heal emotionally, physically intellectually,

whatever way you wanna call it.

And we find that it's a constant practice in our spirits groups.

And the reason why is for the reasons that Susanna and Flavia just brought

to us, which is he hearkens back to the beginnings of Christianity

and this idea of healing, right?

But what I think is really great if you guys are ready, is that there's actually.

Some physical, a, there's a physical aspect to it that can be validated or

thought of that, you know, which is really fascinating for those of us who

want to obviously focus on the morals, but can also gain some understanding

and some value from understanding the physics and the medicinal part of it.

I think I can say something here what, uh,

Susanna brought is very true.

We, you know, Jesus is our model.

He used that in healing and But we have now learned even more.

We are not just doing that based on our faith, but we are doing that

because we have learned about it.

We have learned about the science behind it.

You know, k already talked about the energy.

And when we learned about the prayer spirit and, and the energy that

we all have in in, in every bit of the inner the, all the layers of

the peri spirit, the energy that circulates through it, and that can

be transmitted through our thoughts.

Remembering that our thoughts is the base for all this, that focus, that channels

all this energy towards something.

And in this case, if we focus our thoughts, directing our energy

into healing, into someone's that, that, uh, it, it's what basically

is transmitted through passes.

We also know that in the spirit passes, we are conveying, we are

channeling our own magnetic energy.

But we are actually the conveying ly the energy from the higher spirits

that are channeled through us with with our magnetic energy towards

the person who is receiving passes.

In, I, I just wanna bring this in, in the mediums book, when Ette talks about the

healing mediums, he mentions that it's not necessary that a person is a spiritist or

even knows about the spirits, but if the person has a good intention of doing good

for someone else, this person is always helped assisted by benefactor spirits.

So, This empowers the magnetic energy of that person.

So this is to say we are not better than Reiki or Healing Hands or any

other thing because if the person has a good intention, they are doing good.

Anyways I also want to relate a little bit to the biofield.

If you, if I can go into that now or if you have any other

comments before I go into that.

Yeah, I think we would love to do, cuz you know what the

question that is in my mind is how do you, how do we know that there

is an effectiveness there, right?

So I think that from a faith perspective we grasp it, but you have talked about

the actual measurable or more generally accepted impact of healing in general

as it becomes more mainstream, right?

As we open ourselves.

So how do, how do we know how that works and how does it work?

And let me just ask, um, add another question on top of Daniels

and, and after you share that also tell us how is it being used in hospitals

if it, if it has, and if that is part of the research that's being done.

In some hospitals, they allow people to do reiki mm-hmm.

Because Reiki is more, uh, well known.

As I mentioned, therapeutic touch is well used in several hospitals here

in, in, in the DC DC area that I know.

But among the other practices I know that reiki has been used in several

hospitals and it's kinda allowed in as a practice, as a non-conventional practice.

Did I answer that, Sue?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay.

And sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

You're going to the biofield?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, the biofield.

I just wanna mention that in 1932 a doctor from the Yale University

called Harold Saxton or did some experiments, some studies and show

that every living being has an kind of field of energy around them.

Being that plant, an animal or human being.

So just to start with that and that kind of field of energy that, that he showed,

he has shown since you know, his first studies have been for some time forgotten

by your physicians and researchers.

But now with more recent studies, it has surfaced again.

And that's how we interact.

Our bio viewed energy interacts with someone else's by afu energy.

And that's how with our intention, we can.

Actually transfer the energy through our thoughts, through our

intention to the person that is being receiving passes or receiving the bio

therapy, whatever that therapy is.

So we have some data that was published by the Brazilian doctors, and I think

it's interesting that I would like to show maybe three slides just to,

to make the connection on the, make the explanation a little easier.

One of the papers, one of the studies was done by By a group of physicians

in Brazil with newborn babies.

These newborn babies were in the I C U or in the hospital.

They were preterm newborns, so that's why they were in a hospital.

And of course, these babies were under stress.

And these group of um, researchers divided the babies into two groups.

There were only about 13, uh, babies in each group, and one group was

assisted by spiritist, uh, people who were trained in spirited centers.

So they knew how to apply passes.

The other group was assisted by people who were not com, were not trained, uh,

didn't know about passes in any other of these healing therapies, however,

they were instructed to have to be there with their hands on the babies.

15 centimeters above distant from the babies with good intention.

Or healing intention.

So both groups had healing intention, but one group was people who were

trained in this practice centers at least two years of training.

And they, they did some measurements.

The group, both groups of babies received this energy for 10 minutes

each time during three consecutive days.

And the researchers measured several things, measured salivary cortisol,

which is the hormone stress hormone.

They measure the heart rate, respiratory frequency oxygen saturation, and the

duration of stay in the hospital.

And all the measurements show an improvement in the group that was

assisted by Spirit Passagers compared to the group that were assisted

by non practitioners of spiritism.

But the one measurement that was significantly, statistically significant

different was the respiratory rate.

So in the graph, the group that was not was shown in blue in this graph

that was received just intention.

But there were the control, considered the control group, meaning there were

no No spiritists versus the one that were spiritists in, shown in red here.

So we see a significant decrease in the respiratory rate.

So as you know, respiratory rate increases when we are stressed out, right?

Stress, we breathe more frequently.

The frequency increases and you see the group of babies that were

received passes, spirits passes had lower and lower and lower.

Respiratory rate.

So that kind of implied a decrease in stress of these babies.

Mm-hmm.

Fascinating soya.

So let's just make sure I got this right.

So basically this research was done with a group of babies in a hospital

that we're in a delicate situation ish.

Right.

Or more delicate I should say.

And it, they were divided into three different groups.

Two babies who?

Two.

Two, okay.

Got it.

So there, there was not one that did not receive any treatment

at all.

Right.

I was going to talk about this in a minute.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So, sorry.

So go ahead cuz I, I totally run you over there.

No, no, no.

I think it's good that you brought just what I was going to say now.

Mm-hmm.

One criticism of this, uh, this work is that there was no, a third group,

the third group should be babies who had not received any treatment at all.

Gotcha.

Mm-hmm.

So here we had one with Spiritist passes, one with just

intention with no spiritist, uh, passes.

But we didn't have a group that didn't receive any treatment at all.

But yet, yet, there was statistical significance.

Right.

And that means that the Ians run some sort of formula and tell you,

yeah, these changes are not random.

They are significant

exactly for respiratory rate.

Mm-hmm.

The other ones, there was a trend to decrease in heart rate, tend to

decrease in cortisone levels and saturation and duration in the hospital.

So they, they were released earlier, however, by statistic methods they

were not significant, meaning the difference was not that great.

Mm-hmm.

And a comment that I had here is that the group that did not receive

spirit test passes had people who were, had good intentions.

They were vibrating healing for these patients.

Mm-hmm.

So apparently, you know, the spiritist passes because maybe because they were

more concentrated or any other reason there was a little better results.

But this work, although there is a criticism on the missing

of a real control group and the other thing, they're very small.

Uh, the number of patients is very small.

It's only 13.

So this for.

For a trial, clinical trial, this is an extremely small number of patients.

So it is actually no wonder we, we did not achieve statistical significance.

We usually, we need a lot more much higher number.

But anyways, one I'll say downside is that the lack of a real control group.

But on the other hand, this is a good study because these were premature babies.

They had no conscience of what's going on.

So you take away the bias of, okay, I am, you know, conscious consciously.

Because I know that I'm receiving passes my mind is influencing

the results, the placebo.

So I think that decreases the bias of that Yeah.

The placebo effect.

Fascinating.

Yeah.

That, that's fascinating cuz it really, it really showcases the efficacy of passes.

Exactly.

Although in a small, you know, sampling rate, sampling, you know, numbers really,

you know, again it's, it's everywhere.

When we look at efficacy, this is a great study, at least you

know, the way I look at it.

Right?

Yeah.

And I like that we are looking at it too.

And obviously there's way more research to be done.

And the question also, Comes up are people willing to do this research?

Right?

Because sometimes it's hard to fund research and will the credibility of the

researcher take a hit because it's trying to measure things that are spiritual.

All these things come into play, but I just love that we are

beginning to really dive deeper and try to prove scientifically

whether it has an impact or not.

And if it doesn't have an impact, scientifically, we've gotta own up

and say, all right, maybe it's just a placebo effect psychologically

that makes us feel better.

But it looks like if I'm reading this right, Sonya, that we are beginning

to see that there is actual evidence that's pointing us to the fact that

there is a physical improvement.

On those who receive passes.

Exactly.

As you mentioned this study is a small study.

It needs, you would need a, a.

Real control group, but as you also mentioned, it's very difficult to be to

have funding for this type of research.

And it's also very difficult that a hospital would allow you

to do this type of research.

Yeah, we need more studies.

Uh, it's interesting that here in the States, if you look at the medical

literature, you find a lot more studies that have done, have been

done with reiki, for example, because.

People know Reiki better, and because Reiki has been used in hospitals already,

so there it's a little easier to do that.

So we are still trying to bring more awareness about Spiritism

and Spiritist passes to say, okay, here's the analogy, and it's similar.

So why we cannot do more studies with faces.

Mm-hmm.

So, so

Sonia, I wanted to maybe if I'm, uh, if I'm seeing this for the

first time, right back to research why, what is so special about spirits passages?

Because if the other group were also was also, showing or their best, efforts,

their best intentions, but the group that had training had better results.

What makes, you know, what's the difference in.

I cannot actually answer that.

With certainty I can only make assumptions here.

And one assumption, because of course, this, to answer that we should do

some kind of measurable research to answer that, but my thoughts

are I have two thoughts about it.

One is that People who were trained as a spiritists they're used to do this.

They are focused, they pray, and they, they prepare themselves before they have

a good connection with the spirit world.

And maybe that has helped in, in, in the mm-hmm.

Result in the final result.

The other thing is that maybe the group that were only working with

intention was not so focused, you know, I have intention, but yeah, they were

thinking about something else and.

We know that in Spiritism when we do that, we are really

focused on what we are doing.

We are connected, we are praying and so forth, so on.

Another thing that I have, um, to say about that is that they used 10 minutes

for the practice in the spirit centers.

We don't do 10 minutes.

We usually, you know, it's one to two minutes, so 10 minutes is a lot longer.

So I wonder if the person who were not.

Spirit practitioners they, you know, kind of their thoughts

wondered about on other things

during, or even if there were, even if there

were spiritist practitioners.

I was gonna say that, yeah.

Right.

To hold that intention for 10 minutes, like a pure intention.

And it's really, really,

really hard.

Really hard.

Yeah.

I have, I have a joke sometimes at the center say, people don't make these long

prayers cause you're gonna lose half of the audience in the middle of the way.

Cause we have a difficult time staying, you know, put

without thoughts for a minute.

Can we?

Yeah.

Can we characters, can we

person to or whoever.

Wants to become a pass giver.

So if I enter a, a spirit center, hey, why, what are the credentials of the

individual that's giving me passes?

Oh, I love that flag.

That's a great point.

Yeah.

So what's the credential, right?

Do you have to go to credentialing schools and get the credential?

A credential, pass giver?

No.

I think that not in our practice, everybody can do it.

That's the beautiful thing too.

Like, and we've sort of seen this also with mothers, for instance, right?

Where they, their kids get hurt sometimes they just kiss their kid,

they put their hand, they even just blow over their booboos, right?

And there's just different ways or different modalities of doing that

intentional transfusion of energy that, that Sonya talked about.

But in the Spiritist group, some groups will have a sort of preparation approach.

And I think I see Susanna sort of agreeing with me there, right?

Sue?

I.

Yeah, I was I was agreeing with your previous thought

as well, which I was going to say.

Um, what you're talking about with the mothers takes us to a

different angle, which is passes outside of the spiritual center.

Which, I think here we, we seek to talk about, spiritual things, but always bring

to, what does that mean on a day-to-day?

Maybe not everybody can make to the spiritual center.

Right?

So, so that means I cannot receive it.

So that's where my mind went.

Yeah, with with a mother, with a hug, with a friend, any, an intentional

transfusion of energy, the difference is that when you are at the spiritual center,

right, so we have a, the environment, which is an environment of prayer.

Of people enter and usually they invited to elevate their vibratory

frequency by listening to uh, uplifting talk, invited to, to do their prayers,

to connect with the higher source.

So we really creates a vibratory environment that

is very beneficial in itself.

And when the person is in that environment and open himself with trust, with

surrender, the person also creates optimal circumstances to receive.

So that is another aspect there is the aspect of the past operation

to do its operation

to receive, yeah.

Right.

That needs to, you know, it's helpful if you have an understanding.

I mean, Sonia, um, early on was talking about pure spirit,

for example, which is the.

Spiritual body.

The energetic body.

So if you have a minimal understanding about it's helpful if you have an

understanding that we can't, like we have mentioned here, manipulate the

fluids or the energy with the power of our thoughts, that's also helpful.

So there are some basic concepts that once we know them, we can become more effective

practitioners, just like anything else.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

And same thing for the person who is receiving.

If you want the sun to enter your house, you have to open the windows the curtains.

So that's an analogy that I like to always use if you sit there, but

your mind is caught up in distrust.

Suspicion or whatever that might be, or elsewhere, nowhere to be found.

Your body's there, but your, your mind isn't.

Then similarly, You are not really putting yourself in that

ideal position to, to receive.

Yeah, and that's a great point too, Sue, because at the Spiritist

group to go back to the, to that piece, like can anyone just walk in and do it?

Generally what Spiritist groups will have, they will have their own training

program, right, where they will help people prepare to do their best in

obviously giving of themselves in the, in those moments, and will ask for people

to make a commitment that in that day, in that moment those will sometimes

call passes or past givers are going to commit to make sure that they, have done

a good job of concentrating, of having a great day so that they don't go in there.

With all their worries and not being able to be a good channel

from those energies from above.

Right?

So absolutely free too.

I think we should mention this too, right?

Yeah.

All of these practices always free at spirit as groups too.

If you are looking to receive passes or I think that they could help you

establish yourself a little bit.

In general, it's always a good idea to go to a spiritist group and generally

the passes are done after a talk or an inspiring moment because it helps you

concentrate in getting to the vibratory range that Susanna was talking about.

So that's why passes are generally done at the end of activities because

by then the past receiver has already began to open him or herself to those

good messages, uc influences, which means it's more likely that the effect

of the passes are going to take hold.

Right.

So fantastic.

So, Sonya, are there other pieces of research or efforts out there that

Yeah.

Was curious about?

I was curious about that.

I love, I love hearing about the first one, so it's like, is there another one?

Yeah, there's a actually this group that, that did the work with babies

did, I think they published another.

Two, three papers, but I only brought one more from them.

And then another one that is interesting too.

So the next one is they looked at people who were hospitalized for

in a cardiac cardiovascular ward.

And they actually selected patients that had depression anxiety.

And they did there were 41 patients, they divided in three groups.

Now they have one group which is a control didn't receive any therapy at all.

One group that were assisted by spirit trainees and trained people, and

the other one with just intention.

Again, here, there was a group that Were not trained in spirit passes,

but they were there with their hands on for 10 minutes, three days, and

with intention, healing intention.

So in this group, they also measured several things.

They measure depression, muscle tension, wellbeing, and like heart rate,

pain intensity and so forth, so on.

And again, there was some differences in both groups.

Both groups had improvements, both meaning the spiritist passes and

the other that were not spiritist, but received some healing intention.

Both groups had.

Improvement in all the things that were measured against the group

that didn't receive anything, that the real control group.

However, the the most striking difference, the most significant

difference was in anxiety and depression.

This is measured by some kind of score scoring system.

So there, there is a systematic scoring system that is acceptable

for publications and studies.

So they used a specific scoring system to measure anxiety and to

measure depression prior to and after three days of of treatment.

And the.

When they measure anxiety, when they measure depression, these

scores were basically the same before and after the procedure,

after the three days of treatment.

There was no difference whatsoever in the group that received the

spirit test passes, which in this slide, uh, has a red mark around.

Yeah.

We see a marked difference.

So for example the score was 9.6.

Prior to the passes and after the, after three days of passes,

it dropped to 3.7, so it was a big drop in the score of anxiety.

The group that were received only the, the treatment with intention but was not split

as passes, also didn't have any change.

It was like the control group.

It started with 7.9 and ended af after three days.

The score was still 7.9 in the measurement of depression.

The control group without treatment didn't have any change comparing

previous treatment, and after three days of treatment, it was 7.8 7.9.

The group that received only intentional treatment, no passes, also didn't have

change after three days of treatment.

Started with 6.8 and went to 6.3.

Mm-hmm.

However, the group that received SP test passes, it started with a score of six

on depression rate and dropped to 4.2.

So the highest drop, the highest effect was an anxiety, which dropped

from nine to 3.7, but both anxiety and depression was improved significantly.

So this is, this is also another, you know, beautiful work on how this.

How we can see the effect of the spirit passes.

And although there was intention in the other group, for some

reason here, we didn't see any,

any improvement changes.

Now.

Now let me ask a curveball question.

We're in this world that everything is hybrid.

We're, we're gathering here through, through technology.

Can I like, do passes via zoom or via a virtual meeting?

Is it even possible to have passes remote?

What do you guys think?

It's

a great question, FLA.

Great question.

You know why?

Because we know that we can do distant healing.

We can do that.

We can pray for someone that's far from here.

And, at some point this was only done in Berkeley and people saying, yeah,

you know, I got better or something.

But there's a group in Portugal, uh, actually they were not

even in, in medical sciences.

They are in engineering school, and they designed a work and I, I don't

have much time to talk about that today, but it's a great, interesting work.

They had people who were trained in reiki and people who were trained in

therapeutic touch, uh, in different parts of the world, in Portugal, in Switzerland,

in I forgot different countries.

So what they do, they put.

Water about two bottles of water in their laboratory.

In Portugal.

Portugal in the School of Engineering.

They took a picture of that.

I'm Synthes, you know, summarizing that.

It's a little more complex.

But they took a picture of that, sent through email to all these practitioners

and asked, in this day and this day, you are going to be doing a healing intention.

You're gonna be praying sending healing thoughts to this bottle of water labeled

A, for example, not to the bottle label B, just to the bottle label A

and you do this for 10 minutes or so.

So they had people all over the world right doing this.

Nobody was local.

Then the water was tested for several thanks for.

Chemical properties for the physical properties.

And they also had an instrument that I don't recall now the name, but they

had an instrument at that place in the room to measure, uh, to measure energy.

Okay.

So it was incredible.

I can send you then the, the link to this.

Mm-hmm.

It this work, but Sure.

Can you

share?

Yeah.

Afterwards,

it was very interesting because they showed that not only there

were improvement on or changes in the physical and physical chemistry of

the molecules of water in the bottle that people were direct to send their

thoughts to the other bottle was closed to it, but was not the one that people

should direct their, their thoughts to.

There were some changes there because it was close to it, but not as much as on the

bottle that they were asked to pray for.

The other interesting thing is that, The level of energy increased

dramatically from the first day when they started praying four up to the

third day and persisted for 15 days.

It was dropping gradually and, but the level of energy, that residual

energy was there for about 15 days, which for me was amazing.

And I'm thinking, yes, imagine our spirit centers where we

are praying every so often.

How much energy is accumulating there and is maintained and remains there.

So this work not only shows the effect distance, but also the level

of energy that persists after a while.

And that's easy to relate to from a popular perspective

because it's about the atmosphere or shall we say the vibe, right?

Mm-hmm.

So we're talking about good vibes here, right?

So when you go into an environment that has that healthy mental attitude, in

this case spiritual attitude, sometimes people can feel the vibe, right?

You can feel that, that that's a different environment, that it feels good, it

feels relaxing, and it's lovely to see the validation to that coming through

science and making us understand that.

So it's lovely to see that these energies can travel far distances

cuz they're so subtle, right?

Absolutely.

And it's fascinating, fascinating.

If you, if you're interested enough, there is

one more work, scientific work

now with

bacteria.

That's great.

You know, we are, we're talking about the effects on people, but

look at this, this is bacteria.

Bacteria are future people too, people.

Talk bacteria.

That's funny.

They don't have a brain.

But anyways, this was a, a, an incredible work of Dr.

Jean Carlo Lu in Brazil.

He's one of the most spirits scientists that publishes in the world.

And this is a very interesting, but I'm going to just summarize.

So what he did, he did bacteria culture and he divided in actually several groups.

But let's talk about three main groups.

One with people who were trained in passes, spirit passes.

One that only had intention but of healing, but were not Spirit pass trained.

And the other wave, no intention whatsoever.

So he had that.

And also he then divided these groups into different levels of intention.

Completely unin all each one of these groups.

Unintentional, intentional, inhibiting bacteria growth, promoting

bacteria growth and negative effect.

For, there were people in the laboratory with the sculptors of bacteria, the ones

that were not to have any intention.

They were with a headphone and a video in front of them.

So the bacteria is here, but they were supposed to be watching the video,

so by watching a video, they were not kind of thinking about the bacteria.

They had their hands there, but they were watching a video, the

other one with negative effects.

They were watching a very violent type of video.

So to kind of bring a negative energy over the bacteria and.

Anyway, so with all of this different groups, the most significant effect

was the effect of spirit passes on the bacteria culture that had

intention to inhibit bacteria growth.

So those were the ones that were most affected.

When he asked all these three groups the with passes, with intention, non

intention to inhibit bacteria growth.

The group that had most effect on inhibiting bacteri arterial

growth is the, was the groups of people who practice British passes.

In this graph, under, in the red rectangle, you see the dark bars.

And this was in.

Two days, uh, in, I don't remember some hours and then two weeks of treatment.

But anyways, the question is they were not able to increase bacteria growth.

And why is this?

In the paper, there is a discussion about it.

The authors already talking about it, and they said it's very difficult for,

if you consciously think about bacteria, you think about bacteria being something

damaging and you don't want it to grow.

So how could you have a good intention to and, and.

Kind of vibrate for the increase of bacteria growth, usually because we

see bacteria as a damaging effect.

We want bacteria to not to grow.

We want to inhibit bacteria growth.

We want to combat the bacteria and not to increase growth.

So I think that's what was the, that's why the effect was better seen,

better noted, and more significant in decreasing the bacteria growth.

But this was interesting because it was bacteria, not people we see the

effect.

Fascinating.

Fascinating.

So I love that there is a, a breadth of different things coming.

So we, there have been studies with babies with bacteria with people.

And I think that they're beginning to point to something that we intuitively

and maybe religiously or spiritually have believed in, that our thoughts have

power and that it can be even augmented when we're connected to the divine.

Right.

So it's reassuring to see that we're finding a way there.

And for us, spiritists that's really important because we have always put

extra effort in trying to understand the physical world around us and how

it relates to the spiritual world.

Sort of like in the definition of spiritism in a way, that Keck gave us.

And so to see that the, our spiritual selves, our, you know, the intelligence

principle that we are, can affect change via our thoughts into our physical world.

Even though the energies are very still very different, is

reassuring many different ways.

It's also.

A little bit of a tale of two perspectives, right?

Because it also begs the question, wow, if our intention can bring about positive

impact, what kind of intention and focus are we having during our day-to-day lives?

And what kind of interactions are we having with people around us?

Of course, this also has the augmentation of spirituality, right?

So passes.

It's not just our energy, as you was said, it's also our request

from spiritual helpers to kind of augment that which we have.

But it does beg the question, doesn't it?

What are we doing to make sure that we're good practitioners of

transmitting good energies to people?

You just left in my mouth, a taste for like, I want some more.

You know?

Yes.

Like, yes, the craving.

This is amazing, amazing, uh, work.

Thank you for sharing with us.

It was very, uh, enlightening.

I have a number of people in my mind that I wanna send directly the

link and say, Hey, look at this.

It's very exciting news.

And again, I just can't wait to see what else is coming.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And while we do that, let's do our wrap up as our time begins to run away from us.

Flavia, what's your biggest takeaway from today?

My biggest takeaway is that there's a lot of

benefits from receiving passes.

If you looking for that, go to your newest spirit center and look for it.

There's definitely a lot of benefits from receiving passes.

I also took away that the there's some prerequisites for that person to become,

or for someone to become a best giver.

As we talked about, every center will be different, but

there are some re requisites.

For the person to do that.

And love, love, love is seeing Sonya's, you know, breadth of

expertise and academic know-how.

Show us that science is catching on while we as spirits have

learned, for many, many years.

So that's fantastic, right?

Those two worlds colliding, so to speak.

Love it.

And Sue, what would you say stuck with you

the most during this episode?

Well, I, I kind of already said I'm, I mean, I, I love research.

So I'm kind of, I was like, I needed more time.

I wanna go back.

I wanna look at it, I wanna understand it better.

Um, so I'm left with some excitement, but also it's, um, something that for

people to consider a lot of times.

People wondering, what can I do?

How can I help?

And this is a way of helping others that actually not only helping others

by sharing a little bit of something that we all have, which is energy

but it also is an exercise of faith.

And at the very end, we didn't have a chance to talk about it.

But I did see a question about it is also as you give, you receive.

Mm-hmm.

Because you are never alone.

So you are being also a channel of some spiritual energy

that's coming through you.

So it's a double win.

You win because you are helping someone else.

You win because you are helping yourself.

And at the very end is it's just a wonderful practice

that is available to everyone.

And before we give Sonia a final words, I'm gonna jump in

and say a hundred percent to what you guys smart people just said.

And I think what's really cool too is that we haven't explicitly called

this one out, but to talk about passes is to talk about prayer.

And so there is little distinction in a way, right?

Because everything that we were thinking about and talking about

here today also applies to prayer.

And in a way you can almost say that passes are an intentional,

intentionally directed type of prayer.

So it's also reassuring for us, I think to know that our prayers, our.

Effort to ask and act on behalf of others spiritually can also

be registered intentionally and scientifically and physically.

And I'm really thrilled too, like Za was saying, that we are beginning to

from a physical perspective, from a like a material perspective, really

pay attention to this and try to understand what are those changes.

Because this is not an alternative to traditional treatment, but it

could be a compliment to it, right?

I think that's something that we didn't really talk much about this.

We're all, we're all, we're all up for medical treatment Yes.

To all that.

Cuz medicine also comes from God people, right?

We've got like evolution of knowledge, right?

Including medicine.

And we need to respect and honor that.

But these are other practices that we can augment, that we can layer upon

all the other things that we are doing.

And especially in this world of challenges right now with mental

health and a lot of depression.

This could be.

Interesting thing.

So I'm really grateful that we have this experience.

And so, maybe it's a good time to turn to Sonia.

Sonya, what is the most interesting piece about all these studies and

things that you see and you learn about and you talk to people about?

First of all I love all your comments and I wanna thank you for

letting me participate in this talk.

But I have seen a lot of research coming more recently, not only about passes,

but about the how we can benefit others with our thoughts, our intentions.

And and we want to, in the, as I represent the Spirit Medical Association, we

support research, and we want to see more research in this field because of course,

you know, faith is important, faith is the base of it, but when it's like

spiritism, when we have the explanation, we can understand the defects behind it.

That makes our faith a lot stronger and it can make it more effective.

So I think that We are as the spirit, as medical association, our

mission is to educate the healthcare professionals and to support research

on the impact of the spirit or so in our, in physical and mental health.

I would like, I have seen more and more, I'm very enthusiastic

about the research that is coming out, but we are really trying to

simulate people to do more research.

So, Sonya, I, I can read some people's minds right now.

They might be listening to us later or watching us this

through our YouTube channel.

If they have questions, if they wanna connect with you or the medical

association, where do they go?

The best is to go to our website, www dot sme.

Dot org.

That's it.

And that's correct.

We can send, there's a contact us button, so you can send us question.

We are having several events now.

Every month we have something online and we have added

discussion on scientific papers.

So every other month we have a scientific discussion with a panel.

So you are invited and we are doing some changes in our website that may

not be there yet, but will soon be the whole schedule will be in the

website and everyone can join in.

Fantastic.

And it's always wonderful.

Always a good, yeah.

Go ahead.

Su Susanna.

Sorry.

No, I just said wonderful.

Thank you.

Yeah, I was gonna say that I love that US Spirit Medical Association

is also providing opportunities for those of us who are not medical

doctors to be engaged as well.

So if you feel like you will know more, go over there,

subscribe, check out their events.

I am a member as well, and I'm not a medical doctor, but I love

hearing about the stuff and I'm really excited about all the work.

So thank you Sonya.

Thank you for all that you guys are doing over there.

We really appreciate

you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here, to talk a little

bit to learn with all of you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So we're coming to the end friends, and if you would like to know more

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