1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,208 This week on breaking bullying. 2 00:00:02,208 --> 00:00:05,166 We've talked a lot about the effects of bullying. 3 00:00:05,166 --> 00:00:08,166 But this week, we're going to flip the script. 4 00:00:08,375 --> 00:00:12,500 We're going to delve into what isn't bullying. 5 00:00:12,583 --> 00:00:13,375 So sit back. 6 00:00:13,375 --> 00:00:22,125 We're going to hit that music and we're going to get start. 7 00:00:22,208 --> 00:00:25,000 Bad things can happen to all of us. 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,333 But just because something bad happened doesn't mean you were bullied. 9 00:00:30,416 --> 00:00:35,416 Joining us this week with her tale of a very negative experience 10 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:38,708 and how it affected her and how in many ways 11 00:00:38,708 --> 00:00:43,500 it might have looked like bullying but wasn't is Kenny FITE, 12 00:00:43,583 --> 00:00:49,458 who is a population scientist and a success coach and somebody who has, 13 00:00:49,541 --> 00:00:53,375 it can be argued, changed the entire industry 14 00:00:53,458 --> 00:00:56,291 of airline flight. 15 00:00:56,291 --> 00:00:58,375 Kenley, how are you today? 16 00:00:58,375 --> 00:00:59,541 I'm doing well. 17 00:00:59,541 --> 00:01:01,916 Thank you so much for having me today. 18 00:01:01,916 --> 00:01:03,166 And not as an afterthought. 19 00:01:03,166 --> 00:01:06,125 Also joining us is my co-host, Tim. 20 00:01:06,125 --> 00:01:09,750 I feel like I get forgotten about sometimes. 21 00:01:09,833 --> 00:01:12,000 Where are you? 22 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,041 Kennedy Thanks for having me. 23 00:01:13,041 --> 00:01:16,541 Thanks for coming on our podcast this week. 24 00:01:16,625 --> 00:01:18,500 Yeah, Thank you. It's my pleasure. 25 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:20,166 Thank you. 26 00:01:20,166 --> 00:01:23,041 KELLY I've known I work with kids in my school 27 00:01:23,041 --> 00:01:26,250 and I would get mad telling me that, hey, my kid was bullied. 28 00:01:26,333 --> 00:01:29,333 This kid called my kid, I mean, name. 29 00:01:29,458 --> 00:01:33,916 And it wasn't bullying, you know, it was just a kid being rude or being just young. 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,166 But you have a very interesting story 31 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:40,166 that not just happened to you one time. 32 00:01:40,166 --> 00:01:42,916 It happened to you twice. 33 00:01:42,916 --> 00:01:46,291 Can you go ahead and show us that story? 34 00:01:46,375 --> 00:01:47,625 Yes. Yes. 35 00:01:47,625 --> 00:01:50,375 So it's it's so interesting. 36 00:01:50,375 --> 00:01:56,291 So over a decade ago and I it's it's so relevant today as well, 37 00:01:56,333 --> 00:02:01,333 I was told that I was too fat to fly by Southwest Airlines. 38 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:03,541 And so I had a story go viral 39 00:02:03,541 --> 00:02:07,916 because I talked about it on the Internet and people were outraged. 40 00:02:07,958 --> 00:02:11,000 And it really it was such a difficult thing 41 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,875 that led to a lot of positive change. 42 00:02:12,875 --> 00:02:14,333 And it's so interesting. 43 00:02:14,333 --> 00:02:18,291 I appreciate the opportunity to really come on and be able to look at it 44 00:02:18,291 --> 00:02:22,083 and kind of reflect on it through the lens of what I know now, 45 00:02:22,083 --> 00:02:25,291 my experiences, my education and my work, 46 00:02:25,375 --> 00:02:28,041 and really kind of define what that 47 00:02:28,041 --> 00:02:31,208 what that was and and really how I moved 48 00:02:31,208 --> 00:02:35,750 forward from it and a helpful will hopefully be a helpful way. 49 00:02:35,833 --> 00:02:39,250 So what happened exactly? 50 00:02:39,291 --> 00:02:43,291 Well, I was I was on the fourth 51 00:02:43,375 --> 00:02:47,708 part of a connecting flight and my flight was running late. 52 00:02:47,708 --> 00:02:51,208 Yeah. Yeah. It was a long day of travel. 53 00:02:51,291 --> 00:02:55,166 And I got to the gate and I was asked to purchase 54 00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:59,541 a ticket on on the market day, the value of the ticket that day 55 00:02:59,625 --> 00:03:03,000 to fly home to just continue the rest of the flight. 56 00:03:03,083 --> 00:03:07,500 And when I expressed that I had already been on the flight 57 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:11,958 and I was fine on the last one, I had just jogged to get to the gate 58 00:03:12,041 --> 00:03:15,166 to get there on time for the next one. 59 00:03:15,166 --> 00:03:18,416 I was told I wasn't allowed to get on the plane because of my size, 60 00:03:18,416 --> 00:03:22,916 and so I had a very public conversation about private things. 61 00:03:22,916 --> 00:03:27,041 I was asked what clothings size I wore, how much I weighed, 62 00:03:27,041 --> 00:03:30,625 and I was happy to tell people because I'm I'm still actually over a decade later, 63 00:03:30,625 --> 00:03:34,750 I'm still over £100 lighter than I was prior to that experience. 64 00:03:34,750 --> 00:03:39,083 So it was just one of those days when I realized, okay, well, I'm still 65 00:03:39,083 --> 00:03:43,166 in a plus size body and I was just treated differently as a result of that. 66 00:03:43,208 --> 00:03:45,000 So this all happened at the gate. 67 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,125 This is not inside the plane yet. 68 00:03:47,125 --> 00:03:48,791 Right? Yeah, it happened. 69 00:03:48,791 --> 00:03:52,041 It happened as I was trying to to get on the plane. 70 00:03:52,041 --> 00:03:56,833 Yeah. Yeah. Was it a male or female? 71 00:03:56,916 --> 00:03:57,458 It was 72 00:03:57,458 --> 00:04:01,250 first a male and then also a female actually came out 73 00:04:01,250 --> 00:04:06,666 and sort of attempted to aid him and asked me the same kinds of questions. 74 00:04:06,666 --> 00:04:09,916 And so it was a really it was a kind of a 75 00:04:10,125 --> 00:04:15,250 a very personal thing that happened in front of everyone at the gate. 76 00:04:15,291 --> 00:04:16,291 It was not a good day. 77 00:04:16,291 --> 00:04:18,416 It was not a good moment, even though it led to good. 78 00:04:18,416 --> 00:04:24,666 They just stopped the whole boarding process to take care of you first. 79 00:04:24,750 --> 00:04:25,791 Yeah. Yeah. 80 00:04:25,791 --> 00:04:32,166 So I pulled out my I pulled out my phone and sat a popular blog at the time, 81 00:04:32,250 --> 00:04:35,500 and I pulled up my phone and I just started recording them, 82 00:04:35,583 --> 00:04:39,375 sharing their language and the different things that that they said. 83 00:04:39,375 --> 00:04:45,083 And, and I posted about it and it became a viral story shortly after. 84 00:04:45,166 --> 00:04:47,083 Speaking of their language. 85 00:04:47,083 --> 00:04:50,083 Were they treating you with a degree of respect 86 00:04:50,250 --> 00:04:54,083 or was it very, very much like you were 87 00:04:54,166 --> 00:04:58,708 kind of in the realm of a human being, but not quite so much? 88 00:04:58,791 --> 00:05:01,041 It was not respectful. 89 00:05:01,041 --> 00:05:03,041 I definitely I will say that 90 00:05:03,041 --> 00:05:06,625 I found it offensive at the time, and I didn't know how to process that yet. 91 00:05:06,625 --> 00:05:09,708 So I want to be very clear that I don't feel like a victim 92 00:05:09,708 --> 00:05:13,916 regarding this situation, but I would not say that it was respectful. 93 00:05:13,916 --> 00:05:15,708 No, it certainly was not. 94 00:05:15,708 --> 00:05:21,125 It was kind of a tough day for me, but it was clearly a bad day for them as well. 95 00:05:21,208 --> 00:05:22,833 It's their job to be there. 96 00:05:22,833 --> 00:05:27,875 I'm I, I think it's a bad day or whatnot. 97 00:05:27,875 --> 00:05:31,500 That doesn't change the fact that they should have been respectful. 98 00:05:31,583 --> 00:05:35,333 I mean, they're there. 99 00:05:35,416 --> 00:05:38,166 So they were talking to you in a way 100 00:05:38,166 --> 00:05:42,541 that would have been, shall we say, 101 00:05:42,625 --> 00:05:44,916 emotionally disappointing. 102 00:05:44,916 --> 00:05:46,541 It was emotionally disappointing. 103 00:05:46,541 --> 00:05:48,541 It's something that I would not tolerate. 104 00:05:48,541 --> 00:05:50,291 Now. I didn't really tolerate it then. 105 00:05:50,291 --> 00:05:52,750 I have a lot more skills in my pocket than I did at the time. 106 00:05:52,750 --> 00:05:58,958 But yeah, it was definitely disappointing and it was increasingly so 107 00:05:58,958 --> 00:06:04,875 after a very public apology from Southwest when it happened again months later. 108 00:06:04,958 --> 00:06:08,500 So it happened twice. 109 00:06:08,583 --> 00:06:11,333 Before we get to the second one, the move to the second one. 110 00:06:11,333 --> 00:06:14,000 During the first one, 111 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,708 you had this interaction with these two lovely individuals 112 00:06:17,791 --> 00:06:21,000 who were having a bad day. 113 00:06:21,083 --> 00:06:23,750 How did that resolve on the day? 114 00:06:23,750 --> 00:06:25,291 Were you kept off the flight? 115 00:06:25,291 --> 00:06:26,125 Did you finally get in? 116 00:06:26,125 --> 00:06:28,916 Did you have to buy the second ticket? 117 00:06:28,916 --> 00:06:31,083 I did finally get on the flight 118 00:06:31,083 --> 00:06:34,083 and I did not have to buy the second ticket. 119 00:06:34,083 --> 00:06:35,000 People at the gate 120 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,583 kind of formed their own court of opinion and I was allowed to board the plane. 121 00:06:38,750 --> 00:06:42,375 I think they really didn't know what to do with me at that point, but 122 00:06:42,458 --> 00:06:46,083 they allowed me to get on the plane and I headed back, finished the trip, 123 00:06:46,166 --> 00:06:49,708 and then took a different airline for my following trip. 124 00:06:49,791 --> 00:06:51,291 But once 125 00:06:51,291 --> 00:06:55,375 that happened, you said you recorded it, you blogged it the first time. 126 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:59,666 What did Southwest do post the first flight, if anything? 127 00:06:59,666 --> 00:07:03,958 Well, I blogged about it and then I woke up. 128 00:07:04,041 --> 00:07:06,625 I don't I don't remember now. So hazy. 129 00:07:06,625 --> 00:07:07,458 It was so long ago. 130 00:07:07,458 --> 00:07:13,250 If it was a day later or a couple of days later in which and Twitter had really 131 00:07:13,250 --> 00:07:17,208 exploded, there were a lot of people who were sort of angry about it 132 00:07:17,208 --> 00:07:21,791 and sharing their opinions, as we know that they do on Twitter. 133 00:07:21,791 --> 00:07:24,083 And Southwest actually reached out to me. 134 00:07:24,083 --> 00:07:27,625 So an executive from their headquarter has reached out 135 00:07:27,666 --> 00:07:32,208 and just asked me to consider flying with them again. 136 00:07:32,208 --> 00:07:33,958 And I did fly with them again. 137 00:07:33,958 --> 00:07:40,250 So I had a very good experience at the hands of that executive 138 00:07:40,333 --> 00:07:41,708 and it went pretty well. 139 00:07:41,708 --> 00:07:45,708 But then after that, when I was back on my own, it was back to, 140 00:07:45,791 --> 00:07:46,166 you know, 141 00:07:46,166 --> 00:07:50,791 sort of a similar, similar treatment to what I had experienced the first time. 142 00:07:50,875 --> 00:07:53,125 And that's when I knew I had to make a change. 143 00:07:53,125 --> 00:07:55,083 So it happened again. 144 00:07:55,083 --> 00:08:00,416 How did Southwest react the second time? 145 00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:02,333 The second time 146 00:08:02,333 --> 00:08:06,875 I really in the beginning and again, this was the person 147 00:08:06,958 --> 00:08:10,500 on the front line of what was happening just didn't react well. 148 00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:15,541 And at this point I knew about their sort of being a very gray person 149 00:08:15,541 --> 00:08:19,750 of size policy, but I knew it better than the gate attendant did. 150 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:22,541 And at that time I was allowed to get on the plane. 151 00:08:22,541 --> 00:08:26,666 I actually encouraged that person to to step aside 152 00:08:26,666 --> 00:08:28,833 and have the conversation with me privately. 153 00:08:28,833 --> 00:08:31,791 And I felt a lot more empowered to do that. 154 00:08:31,791 --> 00:08:36,541 And it took a little coercing on my part just to get them to agree to have 155 00:08:36,541 --> 00:08:40,875 that conversation behind closed doors, which was really just in a hallway. 156 00:08:40,875 --> 00:08:45,458 But I was able to express, Hey, I've been in this situation before 157 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:48,958 and and it's not going to go well if we need a different outcome. 158 00:08:48,958 --> 00:08:51,875 I didn't I was able to get on the plane again. 159 00:08:51,875 --> 00:08:55,875 But at that point I decided that I needed to do something else. 160 00:08:55,875 --> 00:08:58,916 So I actually sued Southwest 161 00:08:58,916 --> 00:09:02,500 in federal court and I sued them for no money. 162 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:05,083 And so looking back, I realize where you know, 163 00:09:05,083 --> 00:09:07,625 I realize how it could have been more effective on my end 164 00:09:07,625 --> 00:09:10,625 if I maybe I would have gotten their attention 165 00:09:10,625 --> 00:09:13,541 more quickly or more effectively if I had sued for money. 166 00:09:13,541 --> 00:09:14,708 But I didn't want their money. 167 00:09:14,708 --> 00:09:19,208 I wanted them to change their policy, and they ultimately did. 168 00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:22,250 And for all of that, 169 00:09:22,333 --> 00:09:26,083 you don't regard that as having been bullied. 170 00:09:26,166 --> 00:09:29,208 I don't I wouldn't say that that was bullying. 171 00:09:29,208 --> 00:09:33,000 No, I think it was rude and offensive and it shouldn't have 172 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,083 existed, shouldn't have happened the way that it did. 173 00:09:37,166 --> 00:09:40,291 But I wouldn't necessarily view it as bullying. 174 00:09:40,291 --> 00:09:43,958 I don't think anyone woke up that morning, 175 00:09:44,041 --> 00:09:48,208 that initial day, with the intention of just hurting a fat person's feelings. 176 00:09:48,208 --> 00:09:50,375 I don't think that's what happened. 177 00:09:50,375 --> 00:09:53,666 I think people just sometimes don't know how to handle their emotions. 178 00:09:53,666 --> 00:09:58,250 I think they weren't trained well, so they took the brunt of the frustration 179 00:09:58,250 --> 00:10:01,375 from poor leadership that they were working under. 180 00:10:01,375 --> 00:10:05,291 And so I wouldn't call it bullying, even though it's unacceptable. 181 00:10:05,291 --> 00:10:09,625 I don't always think sometimes we refer to things as bullying 182 00:10:09,625 --> 00:10:12,875 when in fact it could just be that that someone's being a jerk. 183 00:10:12,958 --> 00:10:16,000 It doesn't necessarily mean you guys are the experts on bullying. 184 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,083 But I didn't feel bullied. I felt 185 00:10:19,166 --> 00:10:21,416 insulted, was rude and inappropriate. 186 00:10:21,416 --> 00:10:22,416 But yeah, yeah. 187 00:10:22,416 --> 00:10:26,375 It seems like nowadays is if you get your feelings hurt, 188 00:10:26,458 --> 00:10:29,458 you're being bullied like this person is bullying me. 189 00:10:29,541 --> 00:10:32,333 I feel that's such a strong word 190 00:10:32,333 --> 00:10:36,958 to use and to call somebody a bully, because if I just 191 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,250 if I called you fat, that's pretty inappropriate as being rude. 192 00:10:41,333 --> 00:10:44,791 I'm not trying to overpower you. 193 00:10:44,875 --> 00:10:48,458 I'm just a rude person. 194 00:10:48,541 --> 00:10:49,791 Yeah. 195 00:10:49,791 --> 00:10:50,625 Yeah. 196 00:10:50,625 --> 00:10:52,958 Why do you think 197 00:10:52,958 --> 00:10:55,750 people feel like they're being bullied? 198 00:10:55,750 --> 00:11:01,125 Whether you like, in a situation like that or when they get a name called 199 00:11:01,208 --> 00:11:04,041 or some pushes them or shoves them 200 00:11:04,041 --> 00:11:08,250 maybe on purpose as you're walking by the hallway, 201 00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:12,000 why do you think we as people think, Oh, you're bullying me because you pushed me 202 00:11:12,125 --> 00:11:15,500 to the side? 203 00:11:15,583 --> 00:11:16,916 Well, I think, you know, this 204 00:11:16,916 --> 00:11:20,666 is something I study in great depth as in my daily life. 205 00:11:20,666 --> 00:11:26,375 And I think that one thing that happens that is that we follow societal trends. 206 00:11:26,375 --> 00:11:31,166 I think a lot of times people are looking for answers to ambiguous questions. 207 00:11:31,166 --> 00:11:36,958 And when they don't understand how someone could be so unkind, 208 00:11:36,958 --> 00:11:41,125 like it's very hard to rationalize something that simply isn't rational. 209 00:11:41,125 --> 00:11:47,166 And I think we often confuse trying to to look at a situation rationally. 210 00:11:47,250 --> 00:11:50,625 It's very easy for our emotions to come in and get involved. 211 00:11:50,625 --> 00:11:54,208 And when that happens, it's easier just to say, okay, yeah, 212 00:11:54,208 --> 00:11:58,166 let's put a bow on this and call it bullying than it is to 213 00:11:58,208 --> 00:12:03,000 to really look more in depth that at the other possibilities. 214 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,500 The scenarios are really endless, but we kind of hyper focus as a society 215 00:12:08,541 --> 00:12:13,708 on whatever we hear someone else saying, unless we're challenging our own thoughts 216 00:12:13,791 --> 00:12:17,875 and really thinking about them in a self reflective way. 217 00:12:17,958 --> 00:12:18,833 I've talked to people 218 00:12:18,833 --> 00:12:22,958 before and they would bring up like their workplace 219 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,041 and they're saying, My boss is bullying me because my boss believes 220 00:12:27,041 --> 00:12:30,375 things should be done this way and I disagree with it. 221 00:12:30,375 --> 00:12:33,750 So my boss cuts away my work. 222 00:12:33,833 --> 00:12:36,416 I tell you, no, that's not bullying. 223 00:12:36,416 --> 00:12:41,166 That's your boss being a boss, telling you what to do. 224 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:43,500 I'm not sure why you would call that bullying. 225 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,083 Yeah, we have we often have expectations. 226 00:12:46,083 --> 00:12:48,958 Everything that we do in life, every choice, 227 00:12:48,958 --> 00:12:52,708 every decision we make, is based on a perceived outcome. 228 00:12:52,791 --> 00:12:57,750 And so if if if I'm the boss and I have a certain set of expectations, 229 00:12:57,750 --> 00:13:02,666 it's my responsibility to communicate them clearly and respectfully. 230 00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:05,041 But it's not my job to coddle. 231 00:13:05,041 --> 00:13:09,666 I mean, it's not there are going to be times when when 232 00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:12,875 you have to do things in a way that you may not think is best 233 00:13:12,875 --> 00:13:16,166 because you are you're required to do them as part of your role. 234 00:13:16,166 --> 00:13:17,875 But that I definitely would agree with you. 235 00:13:17,875 --> 00:13:18,833 That's not bullying. 236 00:13:18,833 --> 00:13:21,208 That's just that's part of adult life. 237 00:13:21,208 --> 00:13:24,875 I'm on a few of these anti-bullying or these bullying Facebook groups, 238 00:13:24,875 --> 00:13:29,583 and I read their stories and one caught me caught my attention. 239 00:13:29,666 --> 00:13:33,125 This person was saying that their bosses bullying them 240 00:13:33,208 --> 00:13:37,333 and their boss should have higher standards when they talk to people. 241 00:13:37,416 --> 00:13:40,708 And I didn't comment because I wanted to, but I'm like, 242 00:13:40,791 --> 00:13:43,416 don't we all have equal standards 243 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:47,125 just because your boss is a boss? 244 00:13:47,125 --> 00:13:50,041 But you should also have the same standards as your boss 245 00:13:50,041 --> 00:13:52,416 and as treating people. 246 00:13:52,416 --> 00:13:54,416 Do you believe that's true? 247 00:13:54,416 --> 00:13:59,333 So I think I see where you're going term. 248 00:13:59,333 --> 00:14:03,166 And what I would say is that we do all have standard. 249 00:14:03,250 --> 00:14:04,791 They are not all equal. 250 00:14:04,791 --> 00:14:08,333 So I think it's really important to recognize that 251 00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:13,166 when you're in a situation and someone who is in a leadership position 252 00:14:13,166 --> 00:14:17,750 and you are working for that person or being directed 253 00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:22,166 or supervised by that person, they may not be living up. 254 00:14:22,166 --> 00:14:25,166 I mean, I've certainly had bosses who have not lived up 255 00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:30,000 to the standard of respect and kindness that I expect from other people. 256 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,541 And at that point, I looked for another job. 257 00:14:32,541 --> 00:14:33,875 So I think it's really important 258 00:14:33,875 --> 00:14:38,041 to recognize that having standards, we all have them. 259 00:14:38,250 --> 00:14:39,958 Again, those are expectations. 260 00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:42,250 Our perceived outcome. 261 00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:45,958 But when someone isn't meeting them, it may be that 262 00:14:45,958 --> 00:14:50,333 they just have a different value system or a different set of ideals. 263 00:14:50,541 --> 00:14:53,458 It may just be an opportunity for you to look 264 00:14:53,458 --> 00:14:56,541 and kind of figure out what would be a better fit. 265 00:14:56,541 --> 00:14:58,166 Does that make sense? 266 00:14:58,166 --> 00:14:58,500 Yeah. 267 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:00,833 But would you call that bullying though? 268 00:15:00,833 --> 00:15:02,916 Oh, no, no, 269 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,166 no. There's a difference between 270 00:15:05,166 --> 00:15:08,166 having an expectation of how you're supposed to be treated 271 00:15:08,208 --> 00:15:11,875 and the corporate culture or the culture of whatever it is, 272 00:15:12,083 --> 00:15:15,000 not matching the way you would like to be dealt with. 273 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,916 Then it becomes decisions on your part, whether you want to 274 00:15:18,916 --> 00:15:24,208 a stay and try to cope within the circumstance that it is 275 00:15:24,291 --> 00:15:29,250 or be walk away or there's always option C, 276 00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:32,916 which is stand up for yourself and see what happens 277 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,583 because sometimes it can work in your favor and sometimes you can create 278 00:15:36,583 --> 00:15:41,125 a war zone that doesn't benefit anybody, least of all you. 279 00:15:41,208 --> 00:15:45,500 Yeah, but we don't all have the same value systems. 280 00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:49,666 We all don't pull from the same thing because, you know, just there are so many 281 00:15:49,666 --> 00:15:54,208 different pieces of our makeup and they're just not the same. 282 00:15:54,291 --> 00:15:55,708 Well, we have such different 283 00:15:55,708 --> 00:16:00,500 lived experiences that really just create the fabric. So. 284 00:16:00,625 --> 00:16:02,583 So it's great that we're not all the same. 285 00:16:02,583 --> 00:16:06,375 I mean, when we're looking at it from a lens of a healthy 286 00:16:06,458 --> 00:16:10,375 standpoint, it's fantastic that we're not the same ten. 287 00:16:10,458 --> 00:16:14,875 I'm sure that on any given day you and I have experiences that are different, 288 00:16:14,875 --> 00:16:20,916 different interactions, people, you know, we might interact with Bruce 289 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,500 in a completely different way. 290 00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:25,750 That's that's beneficial and that's life giving. 291 00:16:25,833 --> 00:16:30,291 But yeah, I think it really my what I learned 292 00:16:30,291 --> 00:16:35,041 from the experience that I was in and what I continue to learn now 293 00:16:35,125 --> 00:16:39,250 is that I have to determine what my actions will look like 294 00:16:39,250 --> 00:16:43,458 because I'm responsible for those and I'm responsible 295 00:16:43,458 --> 00:16:47,583 to make sure that I'm taking care of myself, that I'm being 296 00:16:47,666 --> 00:16:48,416 that I am 297 00:16:48,416 --> 00:16:51,416 living up to the standard I set for myself. 298 00:16:51,416 --> 00:16:54,000 And that's something I can control. 299 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,041 The rest of it 300 00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:58,875 is I can't control the rest of it. 301 00:16:58,875 --> 00:17:02,916 I like that you said that because I feel like in today's society 302 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,625 we get our feelings hurt. 303 00:17:05,625 --> 00:17:10,041 People tend to feel like, Well, no, I can be as good as I want back to you. 304 00:17:10,041 --> 00:17:13,500 I'm gonna make a show and they'll just blow up in your face. 305 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:17,041 Even if this other person even made a serious mistake. 306 00:17:17,125 --> 00:17:20,208 For instance, my my daughter and I, she's a 21 year old. 307 00:17:20,208 --> 00:17:21,666 She's autistic. 308 00:17:21,666 --> 00:17:26,041 We were in McDonald's one day, and this person 309 00:17:26,125 --> 00:17:27,750 forgot to put something on their burger. 310 00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:28,625 I don't know what it was, 311 00:17:28,625 --> 00:17:32,791 but this lady came in just because they messed up her burger. 312 00:17:32,875 --> 00:17:37,166 She just chewed out this young high school kid about a burger. 313 00:17:37,166 --> 00:17:39,583 And he was like, Oh, do you want to be my manager? 314 00:17:39,583 --> 00:17:41,500 And they're like, No, I don't want to speak to your manager. 315 00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:44,250 I, I think people 316 00:17:44,333 --> 00:17:47,708 lose your self-control like they feel like they have the right to treat you rude. 317 00:17:47,708 --> 00:17:51,416 And it's like a never ending circle because that kid handled it well. 318 00:17:51,416 --> 00:17:54,791 But you can go on Tik Tok or watch Karen videos 319 00:17:54,791 --> 00:17:58,125 or watch other videos where they'll start a fight. 320 00:17:58,125 --> 00:17:59,583 Then they'll start a fight. 321 00:17:59,583 --> 00:18:02,583 It just keeps going back and forth and never resolved. 322 00:18:02,666 --> 00:18:06,708 Do you think there has been a coarsening of society? 323 00:18:06,791 --> 00:18:11,000 I you know, I'm so glad that you all are bringing attention to this, 324 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,916 because I will say that I have a website now and it doesn't have 325 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,500 I don't have as many followers on social media as I did 326 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:22,208 when I was just so angry about what happened to me. 327 00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:24,875 And one of the things I've noticed is 328 00:18:24,875 --> 00:18:28,666 how people really, again, we follow societal trends. 329 00:18:28,708 --> 00:18:32,958 I deactivated my Twitter account because it has really become this 330 00:18:33,041 --> 00:18:35,000 complaining vacuum. 331 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,166 Nothing good comes out of it. 332 00:18:37,166 --> 00:18:40,750 At least that was my perspective. And 333 00:18:40,833 --> 00:18:42,916 so I think we live in this 334 00:18:42,916 --> 00:18:46,916 society where we we most of us feel pretty entitled 335 00:18:46,916 --> 00:18:51,958 and that becomes very dangerous because we can't be entitled 336 00:18:51,958 --> 00:18:55,791 and in humble, or at least I haven't figured out how to do that yet. 337 00:18:55,791 --> 00:18:59,958 So I think it becomes really easy to 338 00:19:00,208 --> 00:19:03,791 to sort of complain and get everyone behind you, 339 00:19:03,791 --> 00:19:07,500 because now everyone has an opportunity to have a voice. 340 00:19:07,583 --> 00:19:10,500 But I want my voice to promote life. 341 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:12,541 And and 342 00:19:12,541 --> 00:19:14,666 it didn't always, to be honest with you. 343 00:19:14,666 --> 00:19:18,583 And I was I'm proud of the way that I handled myself 344 00:19:18,583 --> 00:19:21,625 when when I was hurt at the hands of Southwest. 345 00:19:21,625 --> 00:19:25,708 But knowing what I know now, I could have offered grace 346 00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:27,916 and still gotten a good result. 347 00:19:27,916 --> 00:19:32,416 But I think we have to know how to receive it before we can offer it. 348 00:19:32,416 --> 00:19:36,625 And I think that's that's where we get stuck because we get so hyper 349 00:19:36,625 --> 00:19:39,625 focused on living in this victim mentality 350 00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:42,416 like, Hey, this person hurt me so I can lash out. 351 00:19:42,416 --> 00:19:44,875 It doesn't make us feel better. We think it will. 352 00:19:44,875 --> 00:19:46,375 It promises to, but it doesn't. 353 00:19:46,375 --> 00:19:48,666 It just creates a cycle of pain. 354 00:19:48,666 --> 00:19:53,458 But it is our individual responsibility to put an end to. 355 00:19:53,541 --> 00:19:57,833 Do you feel it's because things like fear and anger are more along the lines 356 00:19:57,833 --> 00:20:02,083 of a prurient interest where it's kind of almost like a pornography, 357 00:20:02,083 --> 00:20:07,291 almost like that kind of base emotion that even if it's a negative 358 00:20:07,291 --> 00:20:12,916 thing, has a almost primal, kind of satisfying feel. 359 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,000 You know, I think that fear is familiar, 360 00:20:16,125 --> 00:20:19,416 and we tend to migrate 361 00:20:19,416 --> 00:20:23,291 toward toward what's familiar because it's comfortable 362 00:20:23,375 --> 00:20:27,458 and so will sit in an unhappy space because it's familiar. 363 00:20:27,708 --> 00:20:31,375 And perhaps that's perhaps you're 364 00:20:31,458 --> 00:20:34,791 you experience something in childhood that's familiar and you have some 365 00:20:34,791 --> 00:20:37,166 some level of trauma that you haven't dealt with. 366 00:20:37,166 --> 00:20:40,541 Our nervous systems have no understanding of time. 367 00:20:40,625 --> 00:20:45,375 So we will go to what is familiar, will sit with fear 368 00:20:45,375 --> 00:20:51,083 or some sort of some sort of negative emotion or 369 00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:53,125 but fear being the case in this one. 370 00:20:53,125 --> 00:20:57,458 And we'll stay there because it's what we know and it's comfortable. 371 00:20:57,458 --> 00:21:04,333 And I will say that it is extremely uncomfortable to sort of break 372 00:21:04,375 --> 00:21:09,416 out of that mindset and try something new because it's unfamiliar. 373 00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:12,708 But it's it's been worth it in my my life. 374 00:21:12,791 --> 00:21:17,500 A few years ago, we had this issue of school bus bullying 375 00:21:17,583 --> 00:21:20,208 and I there was a Facebook 376 00:21:20,208 --> 00:21:24,708 created in our local town and I offered to say, Hey, 377 00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:27,750 I will love if you feel like your kids being bullied in school. 378 00:21:27,875 --> 00:21:29,000 I would love to help them. 379 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,416 I give them a free week. 380 00:21:30,416 --> 00:21:33,416 I'll teach them how to be bulletproof. Wow. 381 00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:35,625 These parents got upset at me. 382 00:21:35,625 --> 00:21:37,916 You're just trying to promote your business. 383 00:21:37,916 --> 00:21:39,833 Look at this guy. He just tried to promote his business. 384 00:21:39,833 --> 00:21:41,625 He does not care about these kids. 385 00:21:41,625 --> 00:21:44,625 I was like the parents turn. 386 00:21:44,625 --> 00:21:46,791 They got negative to me. Wow. 387 00:21:46,791 --> 00:21:48,666 I was just trying to offer a helping hand. 388 00:21:48,666 --> 00:21:52,625 Do you feel that some people 389 00:21:52,708 --> 00:21:53,958 are just happy being bullied? 390 00:21:53,958 --> 00:21:56,958 Is that even possible or they're happy with how life is going? 391 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,750 I think that again, it comes back to less about being happy. 392 00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:05,333 We we become we are the sum of our habits. 393 00:22:05,416 --> 00:22:10,708 And so I work with clients all the time who come to me and they're like, 394 00:22:10,708 --> 00:22:14,458 Hey, I just don't really know how to like myself. 395 00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:18,291 And it usually goes back to something they believe, something 396 00:22:18,291 --> 00:22:21,708 that was spoken over them a lifetime ago. 397 00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:24,833 Like usually, usually you can pinpoint it somewhere 398 00:22:24,833 --> 00:22:28,291 in their adolescent years someone hurt them. 399 00:22:28,291 --> 00:22:30,541 And so again, it's very familiar. 400 00:22:30,541 --> 00:22:35,791 And when you hold on to something, some sort of unresolved anger 401 00:22:35,875 --> 00:22:41,250 as a young person, I mean that we start playing that over and over in our minds. 402 00:22:41,250 --> 00:22:43,333 It can take a lot. 403 00:22:43,333 --> 00:22:46,500 It takes so much courage and a lot of fortitude 404 00:22:46,583 --> 00:22:50,791 to to unravel that trash, which is what it is. 405 00:22:50,791 --> 00:22:51,875 It's trash. 406 00:22:51,875 --> 00:22:55,708 But we get very comfortable sitting in our anger. 407 00:22:55,708 --> 00:22:57,041 I mean, gosh, 408 00:22:57,041 --> 00:23:03,000 back in to my original story, I was living in a constant state of offense. 409 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,875 I mean, I'm a £300 female who was living in New York at the time. 410 00:23:06,958 --> 00:23:11,750 And when I was, you know, £100 heavier, plus 411 00:23:11,791 --> 00:23:15,041 I people on the street would tell me 412 00:23:15,125 --> 00:23:18,875 how ugly I was or how to point out how heavy I was. 413 00:23:18,875 --> 00:23:22,291 And so it really became a practice to just believe 414 00:23:22,291 --> 00:23:24,333 that people were assuming the worst. 415 00:23:24,333 --> 00:23:28,166 So we really have to learn to unpack this, that I don't think 416 00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:33,000 I think kind of go into your statement about the people getting mad at you. 417 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,708 I think a lot of times when we can't trust, it's because we can't be trusted. 418 00:23:35,708 --> 00:23:41,625 So maybe, maybe there was some fear that that they might have a motive 419 00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:47,791 if they were you, you know, so so we tend to project our unhealthy ideas 420 00:23:47,791 --> 00:23:53,208 onto the people around us rather than just assuming good intentions. 421 00:23:53,291 --> 00:23:54,083 It has been my 422 00:23:54,083 --> 00:23:57,833 experience that especially when it comes to childhood traumas 423 00:23:57,916 --> 00:24:02,916 that create anger responses or self-loathing responses, 424 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,125 those are the hardest thing to dig out of you like much like you. 425 00:24:08,208 --> 00:24:11,958 And actually, I even had a podcast called The First Fat Kid, you know, 426 00:24:11,958 --> 00:24:15,208 because I've also been heavy for most of my life. 427 00:24:15,208 --> 00:24:18,208 I've gone up and down, up and down, up and down. 428 00:24:18,416 --> 00:24:23,291 And because at around the age of 11, I weighed £280, 429 00:24:23,375 --> 00:24:27,208 it doesn't actually matter what my weight is in the back of my head. 430 00:24:27,208 --> 00:24:30,833 I'm always an 11 year old £280 kid. 431 00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:33,083 And that's the levers that drive the machine. 432 00:24:33,083 --> 00:24:34,250 That is me. 433 00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:38,041 It doesn't help that I'm a bit more up there right now, but even when I'm 434 00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:42,791 this circumstance of being teased and bullied at that point 435 00:24:42,875 --> 00:24:47,000 defines me even now to some degree. 436 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,625 And there are bits and pieces that I can work on, but I can never fully 437 00:24:52,708 --> 00:24:54,000 excavated out of my head. 438 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,958 I can never get rid of it. 439 00:24:55,958 --> 00:24:57,541 It's always still present. 440 00:24:57,541 --> 00:24:59,666 I don't think we need to get rid of it. 441 00:24:59,666 --> 00:25:03,125 I think we need to learn how to leverage it, which is what I have done. 442 00:25:03,125 --> 00:25:06,500 And so it's not it's not as if 443 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:10,833 no one is ever going to say a negative thing about me again. 444 00:25:10,916 --> 00:25:14,000 That's going to happen because we live in a world 445 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,041 that is filled with broken, hurting people. 446 00:25:16,041 --> 00:25:19,750 So that's that's going to be a thing when I recognize 447 00:25:19,791 --> 00:25:22,916 that that will occasionally happen. 448 00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:26,750 It takes the pressure off of me to sort of wait for when it does 449 00:25:26,750 --> 00:25:28,458 and what what it does instead is 450 00:25:28,458 --> 00:25:33,416 I have refocused myself to understand, okay, I remember a time 451 00:25:33,416 --> 00:25:38,625 I wish I could go back and tell myself, Hey, you're valuable, you're enough. 452 00:25:38,625 --> 00:25:42,291 Your unique gifts are going to serve you really well. 453 00:25:42,291 --> 00:25:44,666 You just have to get through this hard time. 454 00:25:44,666 --> 00:25:47,541 And that's what I do now with clients all the time. 455 00:25:47,541 --> 00:25:49,375 But so I don't. 456 00:25:49,375 --> 00:25:53,500 I don't want to forget it or forget what that pain felt like. 457 00:25:53,583 --> 00:25:57,833 Instead, what I want to do is continue to leverage it, to continue 458 00:25:57,833 --> 00:26:02,458 to be able to say, okay, I'm recognizing that something 459 00:26:02,458 --> 00:26:08,375 something's going on with this person here and they're not being kind to me. Wow. 460 00:26:08,375 --> 00:26:09,916 They probably have an issue. 461 00:26:09,916 --> 00:26:11,375 I wonder who hurt them. 462 00:26:11,375 --> 00:26:13,416 I wonder how I can help them. 463 00:26:13,416 --> 00:26:17,791 And they don't always receive that help, but sometimes they do. 464 00:26:17,875 --> 00:26:21,125 I was at a I don't know if I told you this story, 465 00:26:21,208 --> 00:26:24,875 but I was at a gym several years ago, shortly, 466 00:26:24,958 --> 00:26:30,125 shortly after moving to New Orleans and a skinny person 467 00:26:30,208 --> 00:26:34,000 and I say skinny, reminding you that fat is different, 468 00:26:34,083 --> 00:26:37,625 but a skinny person was mocking me while I was swimming 469 00:26:37,625 --> 00:26:41,333 laps at the gym and I was swimming a mile that night. 470 00:26:41,333 --> 00:26:46,083 And so I still feel pretty proud that I can easily get a mile in a pool. 471 00:26:46,166 --> 00:26:49,166 But I was swimming in the pool 472 00:26:49,166 --> 00:26:52,750 and this person who was smaller than me 473 00:26:52,791 --> 00:26:55,666 started taking video of me on her phone. 474 00:26:55,666 --> 00:26:58,541 And well, that's. That, you know, that is. 475 00:26:58,541 --> 00:27:01,166 Yeah. Oh, of course it's rude. Well, so here's the thing. 476 00:27:01,166 --> 00:27:03,833 Now I know how to approach in one and say, Hey, that's rude. 477 00:27:03,833 --> 00:27:09,375 And I have a high level of self-efficacy and belief in myself that I can do that. 478 00:27:09,458 --> 00:27:14,375 But as I, as I watch this person, like, 479 00:27:14,458 --> 00:27:18,750 try to make me feel bad, I recognize she's trying to make herself feel better. 480 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:20,541 And so I looked right in the eyes and I was like, 481 00:27:20,541 --> 00:27:25,208 Whoever said you weren't enough was wrong. 482 00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:27,000 And she started crying. 483 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,750 It was the most redeeming moment for me because I didn't have to take 484 00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:37,291 on someone else's crap and carry it as my burden. 485 00:27:37,291 --> 00:27:39,666 So I got to empathize with that person. 486 00:27:39,666 --> 00:27:44,666 But I didn't have to take on her words or her actions toward me as the truth 487 00:27:44,750 --> 00:27:49,291 and once I learned how to stop doing that, I didn't need to get rid of it. 488 00:27:49,375 --> 00:27:53,666 I was able to really like, use it to help benefit people around me. 489 00:27:53,666 --> 00:27:55,375 Just saying that to that person. 490 00:27:55,375 --> 00:27:59,250 It takes a ton of self-control because 491 00:27:59,333 --> 00:28:00,875 who knows what I would have said. 492 00:28:00,875 --> 00:28:02,916 But you know, but. 493 00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:03,833 We know what I would do. 494 00:28:03,833 --> 00:28:07,625 I'm from Philadel phia and I and I carry that, so. 495 00:28:07,708 --> 00:28:08,333 Oh, God. 496 00:28:08,333 --> 00:28:09,500 I just 497 00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:12,958 I also want to say I don't know how to I don't know if this really is 498 00:28:13,041 --> 00:28:16,541 is the appropriate moment to say this, but I do want to add that 499 00:28:16,625 --> 00:28:20,208 a lot of times the things that hurt us the most kind of speaking 500 00:28:20,291 --> 00:28:21,958 what you were saying a few minutes ago, 501 00:28:21,958 --> 00:28:25,875 Bruce, the things that hurt us the most are the things that we believe 502 00:28:25,875 --> 00:28:26,875 about ourselves. 503 00:28:26,875 --> 00:28:29,791 So if someone says to me, Hey, Kinley, 504 00:28:29,791 --> 00:28:32,500 you're not very smart, I all, like, laugh at them. 505 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:33,583 Like, I know I'm smart, I'm 506 00:28:33,583 --> 00:28:38,375 not the smartest person, but I am really smart, highly educated. 507 00:28:38,458 --> 00:28:39,958 That doesn't hurt my feelings at all. 508 00:28:39,958 --> 00:28:41,250 I'm like, You don't know anything. 509 00:28:41,250 --> 00:28:44,791 But when it's something that is more personal to me, 510 00:28:44,875 --> 00:28:47,875 it takes time for me to say, okay, 511 00:28:47,875 --> 00:28:51,041 let me challenge that, but let me replace it with the truth 512 00:28:51,041 --> 00:28:55,750 as I know it, who I am and so it takes a lot of practice. 513 00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:57,583 It's something that 514 00:28:57,666 --> 00:29:00,041 I've gotten a lot better at, but it's something 515 00:29:00,041 --> 00:29:03,291 I have to continually practice to, if that makes sense. 516 00:29:03,375 --> 00:29:06,708 It does for me, 517 00:29:06,791 --> 00:29:08,875 and Tim will give his after mine. 518 00:29:08,875 --> 00:29:12,791 But for me, I, generally speaking, don't put much credence 519 00:29:12,791 --> 00:29:17,250 in what other people think of me unless I know them, 520 00:29:17,333 --> 00:29:20,333 and they have earned a degree of the right 521 00:29:20,541 --> 00:29:23,541 for their opinion to matter to me. 522 00:29:23,666 --> 00:29:25,250 And so what. 523 00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:25,875 That's good. 524 00:29:25,875 --> 00:29:29,125 Hampers me is my perception of myself, 525 00:29:29,125 --> 00:29:33,708 which is very highly shaped by 526 00:29:33,791 --> 00:29:36,125 my my childhood. 527 00:29:36,125 --> 00:29:41,500 So I know things like I'm creative, I'm smart, I'm I'm capable. 528 00:29:41,583 --> 00:29:44,458 I am probably the most jack 529 00:29:44,458 --> 00:29:47,791 of all trades person anybody ever meets. 530 00:29:47,875 --> 00:29:50,416 And I can make a lot of things happen. 531 00:29:50,416 --> 00:29:52,375 I'm never going to be an expert at anything, 532 00:29:52,375 --> 00:29:56,208 which I'm very comfortable with because I can do a ton of things 533 00:29:56,416 --> 00:29:59,750 well enough to be very efficient for myself. 534 00:29:59,833 --> 00:30:01,041 But my perception of my 535 00:30:01,041 --> 00:30:04,750 weight is the make or break for me, 536 00:30:04,791 --> 00:30:07,375 and it's all internal 537 00:30:07,375 --> 00:30:10,666 and I don't care what anyone says about it, but I care how. 538 00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:12,541 It's how I feel about it. 539 00:30:12,541 --> 00:30:16,958 And that's the thing that sits with me, my own internal perceptions of myself. 540 00:30:17,041 --> 00:30:20,416 Those are the most painful because those are the ones we can't get away from. 541 00:30:20,541 --> 00:30:24,541 And so those are the ones that I mean, 542 00:30:24,625 --> 00:30:27,333 we have to dig the deepest to address. 543 00:30:27,333 --> 00:30:31,208 And I think there's so much there's so much freedom in that. 544 00:30:31,208 --> 00:30:34,375 But I do think it takes a lot of courage to even recognize that. 545 00:30:34,375 --> 00:30:40,000 And and that's so powerful, so powerful 546 00:30:40,083 --> 00:30:44,333 if I could have a client who could walk in to my office 547 00:30:44,416 --> 00:30:47,000 with that as their starting point, 548 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:52,250 I mean, they're going to make progress because that that is an issue that 549 00:30:52,333 --> 00:30:54,416 we have to be able to admit that. 550 00:30:54,416 --> 00:30:55,666 And I think it's so hard. 551 00:30:55,666 --> 00:30:59,250 We carry a lot of shame when we don't 552 00:30:59,333 --> 00:31:01,541 when we're not willing to bring light to something. 553 00:31:01,541 --> 00:31:04,250 And so I think it's really good that you can recognize that. 554 00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:06,541 That's so helpful. 555 00:31:06,541 --> 00:31:09,208 You know, my biggest issue is as I was bullied 556 00:31:09,208 --> 00:31:13,083 all throughout school and I turn into this people pleaser. 557 00:31:13,166 --> 00:31:16,125 So I always want to do things to make that person happy. 558 00:31:16,125 --> 00:31:18,625 And of course, I worked in health care for many years, 559 00:31:18,625 --> 00:31:20,166 about 20 some years working in health care. 560 00:31:20,166 --> 00:31:23,250 So I was just kind of embedded, you know, you please the people or 561 00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:27,041 I got into running a business, I realized being a people 562 00:31:27,041 --> 00:31:30,458 pleaser, people started to 563 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:32,750 I won't say abuse it, but they would use that 564 00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:36,625 towards their advantage and take advantage of me and just stuff. 565 00:31:36,625 --> 00:31:40,333 Like a year or so ago, I started realizing I'm a start. 566 00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:43,750 People pleasing and do what's best for myself. 567 00:31:43,791 --> 00:31:47,333 But, you know, starting my business, trying to be a people pleaser, 568 00:31:47,416 --> 00:31:51,000 I was afraid of change anything because I'll make somebody mad. 569 00:31:51,083 --> 00:31:54,083 And and looking back at it, it's like, 570 00:31:54,083 --> 00:31:57,875 why do I give a crap what they thought in the first place? 571 00:31:57,958 --> 00:32:00,750 No benefit me, improve me at all. 572 00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:05,000 I worried about this one person's opinion and social media was big for me. 573 00:32:05,083 --> 00:32:12,000 Doing your own business when I know it's Kato karate the first time I to get people 574 00:32:12,083 --> 00:32:13,791 messaging me my business. 575 00:32:13,791 --> 00:32:17,375 You're not real karate, bubba, but all this stupid stuff. 576 00:32:17,375 --> 00:32:19,458 And I'll let that, I'll let that. 577 00:32:19,458 --> 00:32:23,166 And I think it a lot of that I got more positive than negative 578 00:32:23,250 --> 00:32:24,958 and I will let that little comment. 579 00:32:24,958 --> 00:32:27,833 Just eat up at my day. 580 00:32:27,833 --> 00:32:31,666 And I had one person tell me, well, you should call yourself Kato karate 581 00:32:31,666 --> 00:32:32,916 because you're not karate. 582 00:32:32,916 --> 00:32:36,250 I almost changed my business name to Kato Martial Arts 583 00:32:36,333 --> 00:32:38,333 because I was worried about one person start. 584 00:32:38,333 --> 00:32:43,375 I was like, Kayo, martial arts does not sound as a marketing term as a sound. 585 00:32:43,375 --> 00:32:45,000 Good. Doesn't sound catchy. 586 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,500 Kato Karate sounds catchy. 587 00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:49,833 I was thinking, okay, I don't care what you think, but 588 00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:54,166 for many years that people pleasing, you know, if you're a people pleaser, 589 00:32:54,208 --> 00:32:58,208 that you know, when people spot that they're going to take advantage of you. 590 00:32:58,291 --> 00:32:59,750 Is it bullying? 591 00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:01,083 No, no, not really. 592 00:33:01,083 --> 00:33:03,833 You're just, you know, taking advantage of a good situation. 593 00:33:03,833 --> 00:33:07,000 Kind of setting yourself up or being taken advantage of. 594 00:33:07,083 --> 00:33:08,541 Yeah, that's true. 595 00:33:08,541 --> 00:33:10,708 Wow. I'm so glad to hear your business story. 596 00:33:10,708 --> 00:33:15,750 So I just started a business earlier this year and I had a different name 597 00:33:15,833 --> 00:33:19,083 and I came up with Fight Forward Solutions. 598 00:33:19,166 --> 00:33:21,958 So I fight for because it's my name. 599 00:33:21,958 --> 00:33:22,708 I like it. 600 00:33:22,708 --> 00:33:25,166 Oh, thank you, Thank you. I thought it was so clever. 601 00:33:25,166 --> 00:33:26,875 And there were people who thought 602 00:33:26,875 --> 00:33:30,666 it was amazing and people who thought it was cheesy, but I liked it. 603 00:33:30,666 --> 00:33:36,541 So I'm going with it and I'm learning how to just take the insecurity 604 00:33:36,666 --> 00:33:41,666 and channel it into something honest so that so that people want to engage 605 00:33:41,666 --> 00:33:42,708 and want to interact with me. 606 00:33:42,708 --> 00:33:46,750 So hopefully it will continue to work. 607 00:33:46,791 --> 00:33:47,541 I fight for it. 608 00:33:47,541 --> 00:33:49,166 It's simple, it's catchy, and. 609 00:33:49,166 --> 00:33:53,875 The primary name of the name of your business is to sit in someone's head. 610 00:33:53,875 --> 00:33:56,750 So when they need your service, they remember you. 611 00:33:56,750 --> 00:34:02,875 So if you've got a convoluted name that doesn't sit in the brain, 612 00:34:02,958 --> 00:34:04,250 it doesn't matter what it is. 613 00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:07,833 It's just not going to help you not be homeless. 614 00:34:07,916 --> 00:34:10,250 Yeah. Yeah. 615 00:34:10,250 --> 00:34:14,708 As a success, Coach, how if I was a negative person all the time. 616 00:34:14,791 --> 00:34:16,041 Bruce Yeah. 617 00:34:16,041 --> 00:34:17,041 Didn't answer my text today. 618 00:34:17,041 --> 00:34:19,333 I'm pissed off at Bruce or whatever. 619 00:34:19,333 --> 00:34:21,083 How do you train somebody? 620 00:34:21,083 --> 00:34:24,708 Write a better text? 621 00:34:24,791 --> 00:34:26,916 Yeah, Bruce called me a name. 622 00:34:26,916 --> 00:34:28,125 Whatever. 623 00:34:28,125 --> 00:34:29,708 I'm going to get a person. 624 00:34:29,708 --> 00:34:30,750 I get offended easily. 625 00:34:30,750 --> 00:34:33,958 How do you how do you change that person's mindset? 626 00:34:34,041 --> 00:34:35,666 Yeah, it doesn't I Why? 627 00:34:35,666 --> 00:34:37,708 I ask a lot of questions. 628 00:34:37,708 --> 00:34:39,708 I do. Because I. 629 00:34:39,708 --> 00:34:40,875 Not just one simple question. 630 00:34:40,875 --> 00:34:42,708 No, I know. Don't you just wish it was? 631 00:34:42,708 --> 00:34:45,458 I feel like I would either be really rich or not. 632 00:34:45,458 --> 00:34:48,458 Yeah, it would be amazing, but it's an emotional thing. 633 00:34:48,458 --> 00:34:49,250 It's a process. 634 00:34:49,250 --> 00:34:54,375 So I would start with some reflective questions and one might be, okay, 635 00:34:54,458 --> 00:34:58,583 so you're feeling angry all the time and people usually come to me. 636 00:34:58,583 --> 00:35:04,000 I'm different than a therapist because a therapist is usually seeking a 637 00:35:04,083 --> 00:35:09,041 they're usually identifying a diagnosis, whereas I'm looking at 638 00:35:09,125 --> 00:35:12,083 the areas of someone's life where they kind of feel stuck 639 00:35:12,083 --> 00:35:13,958 and they're, you know, I point out blind spots. 640 00:35:13,958 --> 00:35:16,250 So so I just want to say it's different. 641 00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:18,375 And I think therapy is amazing. 642 00:35:18,375 --> 00:35:19,791 And I also think coaching is amazing. 643 00:35:19,791 --> 00:35:22,791 So if someone comes to me and they're struggling with 644 00:35:22,875 --> 00:35:27,458 finding it hard not to be angry all the time, then I might ask them 645 00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:32,916 and I know again this this may be silly sounding, but I might ask them 646 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,500 to spend, 647 00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:39,333 I don't know, 10 to 20 minutes reflecting in a journal, 648 00:35:39,416 --> 00:35:44,625 reflecting on what they want their life to look like when they're 80 years old. 649 00:35:44,625 --> 00:35:48,291 If if they're really tough, I might ask them to write their obituary. 650 00:35:48,375 --> 00:35:52,750 Because when we get to the end of our lives and we reflecting back, 651 00:35:52,750 --> 00:35:57,750 I've never met a person who says, Yeah, I really wish I was more bitter. 652 00:35:57,833 --> 00:36:00,791 Oh man, I really waste the time being happy. 653 00:36:00,791 --> 00:36:02,208 I really wish I was so angry. 654 00:36:02,208 --> 00:36:05,875 And so even though that's not an immediate fix, 655 00:36:05,875 --> 00:36:09,875 it helps us kind of identify what we want out of life. 656 00:36:09,958 --> 00:36:13,666 And so someone might say, Well, I want I want to be loved. 657 00:36:13,666 --> 00:36:15,083 I want to be surrounded by family. 658 00:36:15,083 --> 00:36:20,000 Okay, well, so what are you doing to to to delve into those relationships, 659 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,375 to strengthen them or to even find them, you know, to start them. 660 00:36:23,458 --> 00:36:30,041 So it becomes a very I use a very backward design model a lot of times. 661 00:36:30,125 --> 00:36:31,000 And look at what 662 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,041 people want and then help them untangle those things that they're doing 663 00:36:35,041 --> 00:36:38,041 that are keeping them from 664 00:36:38,125 --> 00:36:41,000 from making progress in that way. 665 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,833 And I celebrate wins along the way. 666 00:36:42,833 --> 00:36:47,166 When someone has a reaction that's different than they would have had before. 667 00:36:47,166 --> 00:36:50,000 We celebrate that, 668 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,666 like kind of putting a bow on it, I would say that 669 00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:57,708 it's really important to recognize that every time, you know, 670 00:36:57,750 --> 00:37:01,166 people are going to say hurtful things and it doesn't make them a bully. 671 00:37:01,166 --> 00:37:06,583 We want to be very careful in the same way that I don't want to be labeled. 672 00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:09,583 I want to be very careful not to label someone else 673 00:37:09,583 --> 00:37:13,166 because they're having a tough day or maybe even a tough season of life. 674 00:37:13,166 --> 00:37:16,708 So I don't want to throw around hurtful words. 675 00:37:16,708 --> 00:37:18,208 We I think that 676 00:37:18,208 --> 00:37:22,041 when when we're thinking of bullying and when we're thinking about 677 00:37:22,125 --> 00:37:26,625 just the the the different iterations of of of bullying 678 00:37:26,625 --> 00:37:32,250 and what it means to people, we can kind of recognize that 679 00:37:32,333 --> 00:37:36,875 it's very important, whether I'm feeling bullied or hurt 680 00:37:36,958 --> 00:37:40,208 someone's hurt my feelings or I've been offended to respond 681 00:37:40,208 --> 00:37:44,458 in a way that that doesn't pile on the hurt even further. 682 00:37:44,458 --> 00:37:47,458 Like words are really powerful. 683 00:37:47,458 --> 00:37:49,583 And so it's really important. 684 00:37:49,583 --> 00:37:53,458 I can't I can't control what someone else is going to say about me, 685 00:37:53,458 --> 00:37:56,958 but I need to not add fuel to a fire. 686 00:37:56,958 --> 00:37:59,125 What I need to do is focus my efforts. 687 00:37:59,125 --> 00:38:02,500 Instead, I'm making sure I'm recognizing the truth 688 00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:06,000 and acknowledging something as truth or trash. 689 00:38:06,083 --> 00:38:11,250 I also want to put this out there into this discussion, which is 690 00:38:11,333 --> 00:38:13,500 there are people who are mean and nasty. 691 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,958 But and as you said, there are people who have a bad day. 692 00:38:15,958 --> 00:38:18,958 I would encourage everybody who's listening to this podcast 693 00:38:19,125 --> 00:38:21,958 to think about that one time that they were asshole, 694 00:38:21,958 --> 00:38:25,541 because there isn't one person listening to this podcast 695 00:38:25,625 --> 00:38:29,458 that if you take it out in isolation, hasn't had a moment 696 00:38:29,541 --> 00:38:33,041 when they were the asshole or the Karen or just 697 00:38:33,208 --> 00:38:38,458 it was the wrong day, everything happened and a moment occurred. 698 00:38:38,541 --> 00:38:43,166 It was at a store or it was in a parking and you just lost it 699 00:38:43,166 --> 00:38:47,875 because your mental capacity to deal was just at its limit. 700 00:38:47,958 --> 00:38:51,375 But for somebody else, 701 00:38:51,458 --> 00:38:56,166 you were just this nasty whirlwind that hit them 702 00:38:56,250 --> 00:39:00,000 uncontrollably, unfairly. 703 00:39:00,083 --> 00:39:02,500 Everybody has done that at one point, maybe 704 00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:07,208 not in an extreme way, maybe not in a way that would end up on Tik-Tok. 705 00:39:07,250 --> 00:39:10,250 But if you look back into your life, 706 00:39:10,375 --> 00:39:15,000 there's probably at least one moment where you were that person. 707 00:39:15,083 --> 00:39:18,583 I would say, Bruce, that I was also that person 708 00:39:18,583 --> 00:39:22,250 not to the same degree, but I have been hesitant. 709 00:39:22,250 --> 00:39:28,041 I'm going to tell you all this and trust that that you hear my whole story 710 00:39:28,041 --> 00:39:32,166 and that is the day that I responded 711 00:39:32,166 --> 00:39:35,958 to this, this person who was hurtful to me. 712 00:39:36,166 --> 00:39:39,166 I was favored by the court of opinion and everything. 713 00:39:39,166 --> 00:39:44,500 But looking back now that I was mentioning, alluding to that before, 714 00:39:44,541 --> 00:39:47,333 I wish that I could look at that 715 00:39:47,333 --> 00:39:50,833 Southwest gate agent who probably went through 716 00:39:50,916 --> 00:39:54,833 at least a short season of of a sort of a hellacious 717 00:39:54,833 --> 00:39:58,166 kind of experience at the hands of my blog readers 718 00:39:58,166 --> 00:40:01,916 and my Twitter followers and and the media. 719 00:40:01,916 --> 00:40:07,125 I mean, I was on every major network talking about this story. 720 00:40:07,125 --> 00:40:10,958 And his face was was on video like apologizing 721 00:40:10,958 --> 00:40:14,500 to me, you know, countless times around the world. 722 00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:18,416 And looking back at that now, I hate 723 00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:21,375 I hate that that is how it happened. 724 00:40:21,375 --> 00:40:25,541 I wish that I had had the tools that I have now 725 00:40:25,625 --> 00:40:28,541 because I would have offered grace to that guy. 726 00:40:28,541 --> 00:40:30,208 It still would have been unacceptable. 727 00:40:30,208 --> 00:40:34,291 I still would have had conversations and I still would have done everything I could 728 00:40:34,375 --> 00:40:37,166 to champion change, and I still would have had 729 00:40:37,166 --> 00:40:40,958 a lot of followers like I did at the time, so I could have done that differently. 730 00:40:40,958 --> 00:40:44,333 So even though he didn't treat me well that day, 731 00:40:44,333 --> 00:40:48,125 I want to say on the record, for the first time ever 732 00:40:48,208 --> 00:40:51,833 after talking about this so many times that I can't count 733 00:40:51,833 --> 00:40:54,916 that, that I'm sorry for the way that I treated him. 734 00:40:54,916 --> 00:41:00,250 And if I could look at him today, I would say you were not nice to me, 735 00:41:00,333 --> 00:41:02,875 but I still should have been nicer to you. 736 00:41:02,875 --> 00:41:07,291 And I think that's where that's what I meant when I said 737 00:41:07,375 --> 00:41:11,666 that It's a lot harder with to to withhold grace 738 00:41:11,666 --> 00:41:16,125 or to withhold forgiveness from someone once you've received it. 739 00:41:16,166 --> 00:41:20,000 There are people in the who have chosen whom I've hurt over the years, 740 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,333 who have chosen very much not to forgive me, and I have to respect that. 741 00:41:24,333 --> 00:41:27,625 But for me, again, I can't control that. 742 00:41:27,708 --> 00:41:31,916 But but living with unforgiveness leads to incredible bitterness, 743 00:41:31,916 --> 00:41:33,500 and that's not what I want for my life. 744 00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:38,916 So I definitely what you say resonates a lot because I have been that person. 745 00:41:38,916 --> 00:41:41,166 I should have been kinder too. 746 00:41:41,166 --> 00:41:43,708 And that that's the thing. 747 00:41:43,708 --> 00:41:47,416 Like we are only responsible for our actions. 748 00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:50,458 And and so that's how I live my life now. 749 00:41:50,458 --> 00:41:52,916 And is it always going to be perfect? 750 00:41:52,916 --> 00:41:55,166 Am I always going to get it right for sure? 751 00:41:55,166 --> 00:41:56,791 No, no. 752 00:41:56,791 --> 00:41:57,958 But that's the goal. 753 00:41:57,958 --> 00:42:01,875 And my goal, every single client I have, we celebrate 754 00:42:01,875 --> 00:42:06,041 progress over perfection every day because that's the goal. 755 00:42:06,041 --> 00:42:09,250 The goal is to be a little bit kinder, a little bit wiser, 756 00:42:09,333 --> 00:42:13,291 and to offer more grace than we receive. 757 00:42:13,375 --> 00:42:18,000 And honestly, I think that is a perfect note to close this out on. 758 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:18,833 Yeah. 759 00:42:18,833 --> 00:42:22,083 Because there's just because I just think that says everything. 760 00:42:22,166 --> 00:42:23,791 Kenley 761 00:42:23,875 --> 00:42:24,250 I know 762 00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:28,125 we mentioned it before, but now in the official capacity, 763 00:42:28,208 --> 00:42:32,708 where can our listeners connect to you? 764 00:42:32,750 --> 00:42:36,166 Yeah, they can go to fight for dot 765 00:42:36,166 --> 00:42:42,166 com or look me up on socials that fight for 50 forward 766 00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:44,625 or fight for it on social media. 767 00:42:44,625 --> 00:42:46,916 Thank you, Kelly, for coming on our podcast this week 768 00:42:46,916 --> 00:42:49,375 and showing us your story and your insights. 769 00:42:49,375 --> 00:42:50,750 Thank you so much, Tim. 770 00:42:50,750 --> 00:42:53,625 It was such a pleasure to be here with you and Bruce. I appreciate it. 771 00:42:53,625 --> 00:42:54,833 Thank you so much. 772 00:42:54,833 --> 00:42:57,666 And as for us, there are two ways to get a hold of us. 773 00:42:57,666 --> 00:43:01,541 The first is our very own website which is w WW 774 00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:04,750 dot breaking bullying dot com. 775 00:43:04,875 --> 00:43:08,708 The second is by emailing us if you have a story of bullying, 776 00:43:08,916 --> 00:43:14,833 if there's any questions or comments you happen to have, email us at 777 00:43:14,916 --> 00:43:19,833 brick bullying here at gmail.com. 778 00:43:19,916 --> 00:43:24,750 Now if you are the victim of bullying, there are online resources to help. 779 00:43:24,833 --> 00:43:28,500 The first is the government's very own anti-bullying website. 780 00:43:28,583 --> 00:43:34,750 And the address for that is w WW dot stop bullying dot gov. 781 00:43:34,791 --> 00:43:39,041 Another good resource is w ww dot pacer 782 00:43:39,125 --> 00:43:43,041 dot org slash bullying. 783 00:43:43,125 --> 00:43:46,125 Now if you happen to suffer from dark thoughts, 784 00:43:46,375 --> 00:43:49,375 if you have feelings of self-harm, 785 00:43:49,583 --> 00:43:54,250 I implore you to stop and reach out for help. 786 00:43:54,291 --> 00:43:58,125 You can find help at the National Suicide hotline. 787 00:43:58,208 --> 00:44:00,291 Very simple number to reach them. 788 00:44:00,291 --> 00:44:03,500 It's 988. 789 00:44:03,583 --> 00:44:07,291 Thank you for listening on behalf of Tim Flynn. 790 00:44:07,375 --> 00:44:09,291 I'm Bruce Jackson. 791 00:44:09,291 --> 00:44:11,875 I would say tune in next week. 792 00:44:11,875 --> 00:44:15,500 But it's the end of summer and we are going on vacation 793 00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:18,750 for a month, so we'll be gone for September. 794 00:44:18,833 --> 00:44:23,291 But join us back in October and we will continue this conversation.