Welcome to the What to Read next podcast,. Hello everyone. Today we have a special guest. It's Jason from Gays Reading. Jason is well podcaster who talks about all things, gays, reading, if you're looking for a recommendation for Pride Month or Beyond Pride Month, because we read Gay all year round. Jason is a great record. Yeah, Jason's podcast a great resource. There's some awesome guests. They're also not just authors and recommendations, but we have Rosie O'Donnell and we have Jason VanNess. So you got a little bit of pop culture, you got a little bit of gay reading, you got a little bit of authors and recommendations. This is a podcast for you.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Hi. So Jason, tell us a little bit about yourself. A little bit more about how did you get started? Like what got you into reading, but also got into podcasting because it is a full-time job. We, when we met, we're like, yeah, this is like a lot of work. So,

seriously.

to us a little bit about it.

I'm, I don't know. There, here we go. There we go. Thank you so much for having me, Laura. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah. I went on such a journey to go from not a reader, to a reader, to a book podcaster. And so I grew up. did a lot of work in theater. And so that's sort of what my background is in arts and theater. And I had transitioned I really wasn't a reader. I don't know why. I think I always thought of reading as homework. But then I transitioned to a job where I was doing arts and culture programming and some of that included author and book events. And so. It was important to me to do a little bit of reading for some of those events. To back up a tiny bit, just to give a little shout out to some of the books that I mean, I guess I could just, we could talk about the books in a minute.

Yeah.

but it was doing arts and culture at this organization that really stuck what made reading Stick with me. And so that really made me fall in love with reading. And I was doing some author conversations for them I was like, oh, I really like this. I like talking to authors. And so it was really I didn't realize how much I enjoyed talking to authors,

Yeah.

was the beginning of my passion for talking to people in that

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love this. And so let's talk about the books that Spark reading. 'cause you started reading about seven or eight years ago. It's similar to my journey. I started reading, I was always a reader, but I took breaks. This one does, and it didn't become this kind of like avid reader until 20 16, 20 17. And it was actually having someone talk about adult reading, like actually taking that as a hobby. It was like someone was like, no, there's this whole world adult reading and I, and that how fun it was. And I was like, wait. What is going on, and of course I, as a good millennial, I monetize my hobby. So,

Uhhuh.

But it's the joy of discover reading, as an adult is really different from a child. 'Cause there's, you have hopefully disposable income or have access to libraries or access to go for the books that you wanna read and not have. Be censored. You're not supposed to read this. You just go for the pleasure of it and finding your niche or finding your, like your go-to things are actually like tropes or specific things are like, oh my gosh, if I have this book I, oh, I'll borrow it. Talks about that experience right now.

it's funny that you talk about access Because when I was doing this arts and culture job, that was sort of really the thing that made me key in to how do I want to phrase this? I. Was so anxious about reading because so many books come out all the time.

It

weird.

is okay.

Many books come out all the time I think I was so overwhelmed about the idea of going into a bookstore and, picking something from the table that has been out for three or four years that everyone was talking about a few years ago. And I have FOMO and I like talking to people about the things in the moment. And that hadn't really gone to books yet. So finally, when I was doing this arts and culture job, I was actually getting some advanced reader copies. of the job. And that was the very first time I experienced getting a book ahead of time. And the first one that I remember getting that was sort of meaningful to me was the sequel to Call Me By Your Name, called Find Me by Andre Asman. And it was really that book that sort of started it all as. As a passion. I'll talk about some of the earlier books that I read as an adult that I enjoyed. However I got find me and then I reached out to the publicist and said, I've seen the movie Call Me by Her name, but I've never read the book. I think it would be beneficial for me to take a read. And so. They sent me a copy of Call Me By Your Name. And I took it very seriously 'cause I wanted to read Find Me. And so I read it and I just, I loved it so much more than the movie because you're in the character's head and it was just so beautifully written and it was inspiring. And so that was sort of the. thing that really kicked it off because then I was able to read, find Me before it even came out. And so I was able to be a part of that conversation from the very beginning of the book hitting shelves. So that was the big turning point for me.

Yeah.

Prior to that, I. Had been around some readers and I, I think a lot of people say and hosting a book podcast, you probably feel this way too. I run into so many people who were like, oh, I wish I could read. I wanna read more, but I don't have the time or whatever it is. And so I was that person at some point. And. friend of mine was a big reader, and I asked him, what would you recommend to someone who a big reader? And he was sort of anxious about getting back into reading. And his recommendation was a visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan. so that, I think was the first book that I read. Out of college and, sort of as a fully fledged adult, as someone who just was picking out a literary fiction book on the shelf. And I don't know if you read a visit from the Coon squad.

No, I'm adding an a. I was like, wait, I need to know what's the book that got you to reading, like what's the book that will get you in that place? 'cause I, I am actually, I'm in a reading song, so I'm like looking for those books to give me I listen to a lot of books. So that's really right now where I'm consuming media, but reading is it was such a big part of my life. And so looking for books that actually can keep you concentrated and focused and just, escape from whatever thing is going on to live. So

yeah.

I'm requesting this from the library.

It's a terrific book. It's, it weaves together a whole bunch of stories and it's almost like a collection of short

Yeah.

that are, that come together in some really special ways. And so that was just a cool experience to read. And then, before that, one of the things that I had picked out, When I was in college, I bought a book called How I Paid For College, and then the subtitle is like A Story of Sex, drugs and Musical Theater. And the cover is it's by an author named Mark ato. is super fun and bright and splashy, and I'm not gonna lie, I pulled it off the shelf because of the cover and

Yeah.

the title, like A Story of Sex. Drugs and musical theater. I don't know. I think there was something else on there too. but that is the story of teenage. Queer kid who has aspirations of going to Julliard and sort of does everything in his power to get to an audition at Julliard. And it's just this like silly story of antics and a lot of musical theater references. And so as this like young gay kid who loved musical theater, reading that book was really fun. So that was the first book that I remember reading as a young person that wasn't required for school. And so that was where I was like, oh, this could be fun. And I sort of tucked that away in the back of my mind, but that was why as an adult I was like, oh, I remember once upon a time when you read a book for fun and not for school, it can be joyful.

Yeah.

I think why I asked my friend for a recommendation. And that's where visit from the Goon squad game.

Yes. And then you just became a podcaster. So what was the Bridget between being a reader to a podcaster? Because again we come from a generation that was like, monetize your hobbies. Gotta figure out,

Absolutely.

that whole different space. And we've talked, we have similar. Patterns of this is a business, this is not a business. Business. You know what I mean? Like it's work. It's not just something like silly Hey, I'm just doing this. Like obviously there's responsibilities with this job. With this job.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think. so call me by your name and find me. Those were like my gateway drugs, for lack of a better

Yeah.

as an adult. And then I started reading other books like. The Knicks by Nathan Hill, which is a massive, like 650 page book. And when I read that I was like, wow, I can read a big book. That was exciting, and then I read a book called Homegoing by Ya, Jesse, which

Yeah.

book. I was like, oh, historical fiction. I like historical fiction. And so all of a sudden I was sort of, I kept reading more and enjoyed stories more and more. And then during CIDI was working for an organization where they were doing virtual programming, and so I was. Producing events that other people were doing online. And I would watch some of these conversations between some of these people and authors, and I was so, I didn't understand why they were asking questions they were asking or I don't wanna say I thought, oh, I could do that better. But I did sort of think oh, I can do this too. I

Yeah.

can do it the same, whether or not I could do it better. So, and I like talking to people, so I thought, okay, let me do another event, but I'll be in conversation with the author. it went really well. The author had a good time and we had a, and we had so much fun. And I was like, oh, this is really cool. And what a great way to read and then sort of take the reading to the next level, right? And that being, getting to talk to an author. So then I started doing some more events like that for this organization and I maybe did, I don't know, five or six for them. And that turned into doing a handful of podcast episodes for them. I interviewed people like Gabrielle Z for Tomorrow and Tomorrow. And Emily St. John Mandel for Sea of Tranquility and Jenny Jackson for Pineapple Street. So these like incredible authors and literary figures and I sort of. Had this dive in headfirst tutorial of how it all worked.

Yeah.

I was laid off from that job because of COVID I really missed it. I missed reading with intention, because when I read a book, I am reading with a pencil and I'm writing questions in the margins and I'm underlining things that are meaningful to me, and it's. And it's the pinnacle of reading to be able to then talk to the author about their work

yeah.

and have insight to the process, but also, just learn about them in particular. And that's something that I pride myself on with GA's reading is that just say, what was the process like? Or how did you write this book? Or how did you come up with this story? I really do a lot of. Just sort of learning about the authors because the more you know them sort of on a personal level, the more you appreciate their stories, and

Yeah.

is what's so cool. There have been some books that I liked but didn't love, and then I would talk to an author and just completely change my perspective because I would fully understand the nuances and the elements of that human in their storytelling. And so that's super special.

I love this.

Sort of my journey of getting into podcasting.

I love this journey. I love the fact that, sometimes it's by accident. Sometimes it's by trying it out and trying to see maybe I have an interest here. Maybe I have this Venn diagram of an interest skills. And then mashing them all together and having this space of like marriage, so much of my story for authors was because of COVID. It was like there was no events and it was like right place, right time, and I was willing to, at the time to do it. And I was like, let's just talk to authors. Let's just have a conversation. And so I. It's a lot of it. It's like it's luck, but at the same time, it's like willingness to do the uncomfortable thing of how do I share, how do I connect with other people? Because what we go for, it's not about the process of writing. It's can we connect with this individual? Can we understand their story? Can we understand nuances of their lived experience and how this affect their writing? And how does it affect their passions, their interests, or niche? There are specific things that makes them unique because we can read the same story over and over, but each author will bring its own flavor, its own sta like that's why we tell, it's like in Romans, there's a pride prejudice, we're telling every week there's a new one. But there's, everyone gives a very different spin of the story. It's the same story, the beats. And yet each author brings its own unique way of looking at the lenses and not to be, having spaces like yours where you get to understand the specifics and nuances to understand the author. So that's a great job.

One of my favorite things is sort of getting a serious author to talk about something silly or ridiculous, the author Katie Kitamura, whose recent book audition. Is a crazy book. It broke my brain. I highly recommend it. It was, it's gonna be one of my favorite books of the year, but it is also gonna be a book that I hated this year.

Yeah.

is so cool. Right? It was such a bizarre book and it makes you think and ask a lot of questions. And Katie is a relatively serious author. You know her last book. Intimacies people really loved. And I get her talking about her love of french fries and fast food french fries. It was just, it was so fun having her sort of let loose, Netty okra for, talk to me about her new book, death of the Author, and we start talking about chocolate and her love of chocolate and what she'll eat and what she won't eat. And we just sort of fall down these rabbit holes often about food. Funnily enough.

I Love this. Mine is reality TV shows we go down, we connect with Bravo or Lore or the lore of the Hills, or Lo, like we have some things. We're like, oh, we have things in come and we understand,

exactly. Well, totally. And and I think that's sort of what I meant too by, you might like a book, but then once you get to know someone. You can really see those elements of them infused in the book, or again, you just understand it in a

Yeah.

I, I have a really hard time when people sort of trash books or talk about not liking a book or question why a book got published. 'Cause at the end of the day, not every book is for every reader

Yeah.

and there was a reader. That it spoke to, and that is how it got published in the first place, right? So For somebody. So whenever I talk about not liking a book, I really say oh, it just wasn't for me

yeah.

it was for somebody,

Yeah. Well, I don't know about you, but I have a great lock of reading one star reviews because it tells me like, chances star, your one star review is my five star review. I don't know what it is, but like people will be like, there's too much cursing, there's too much this. And I'm like, oh, I'm here for it. I am buying it. So it's a, it's, a lot of times it's like I, I know a lot of times we defract, we. We te tend to ignore oh, it has a low star review. I'm like, you don't know where your likes are. So you kind have to dig in a little bit further and be like, actually this might be it. What you may like of literary prose and flowering things I may not like, but I like this kind of writing. And your one star review is telling me that this is the book that I'm actually gonna spend money on.

percent. A hundred percent. And I totally agree, and I think sometimes those one star reviews might even say. Oh, this story is too slow of a burn. Or,

Jess.

too quickly. And you're right. It's oh, I want a slow burn right now,

Yeah.

me read this book. And it really, I think that's sort of why it frustrates me, because it, a book, being a slow burn isn't a bad thing. It just means you should have been reading a faster paced book at the time.

and I think it's also, there's also a thing about timing and where you are emotionally, where you're like, in that space, in time, are you ready to enjoy this book? I, a lot of times I am one of those people who, because I get access to a lot of books, I start a bunch of books and then it depends, and I just start like I do 20% or 30% of the book, and then I put it down and we finish it off like a later, late in, in audio or we finish it off and I'll be like, okay, I'm not in the right time. And I'm not in the right space. But then when I read it again, like a few months later, it's a five star read because I was in the right time. Right. Head space, right moment to enjoy the story. And I think it's it's not just I don't DNF, like it's a DNF off. Oh, it's a soft DNFA sense of let's just play by ear,

well, and I think too, there's a difference of like actively making a choice to not finish a book And. Losing interest in the moment. Right. And that just means it wasn't the right time, as you said, or you weren't in

yeah.

right head space. Excuse me. But there's one book that I actively said, I do not ever want to finish this

okay.

And

That's okay.

No. Of course. I

Yeah.

okay. I am a, I'm a firm believer in saying. If you don't, if you're not vibing with a book, put it down.

Yeah.

curious about what you know if you like the subject, if you like the author, if you like the plot line, then it's maybe worth picking up again at another time

There.

it again.

Obviously there's triggers or specific subject matter I do not touch for my own set of trauma and specific things. I, and I think that's where sometimes it's helpful jack trigger warnings or content warnings or reviewers to actually do that work and to say Hey, here's the stuff. Or the authors know will tell you like, there's content that I don't engage, but I do. I know some people who would engage in that, and that's my job as a recommender is to share those recommendations. But just being like, mindful about your own personal boundaries and this is A DNF or obviously I think there was a one book that I just DNF recently and it was something from my own lived history of like my experience with it and there was the author got it wrong. And it got really wrong. And I was like, well, I'm principal. I just don't, it's just, it's a no. But I have friends who love this author who will appreciate this book. It's just like this small detail, took the whole story out and I had to confirm with it with with a reviewer. I was like, oh, this detail is like, it's, it was daring. And I was like, oh no. This is a DNF right now. Because I worked in it, I worked with a, it's a sorority specific thing, and I worked at that specific thing and knew about the history about it, and it got the whole plot line wrong. And I was like, oh, it just, it doesn't make sense. And I was like, okay. And that's okay.

I wonder how that even happened.

Lack of research. I think it's assumption when you talk about sororities and fraternity I work in Greek life. I was a house mom, I work as a, like a head person in a university in New York City.. obviously there's stereotypes like how to be a sorority, how do we we see the Bat mirage, we see the specific things. But when it comes to bipoc historically black sororities and fraternities there, there's. Their history is very different and the ways they interact are very different. In comparison to Panhellenic like what it's considered like white sororities and fraternities and so the author got put the stereotype of what we normally would see Obama rush, fraternity, sorority into a historically black fraternity sorority, and it's. Very jarring. I've actually participated, I'm part of a Latina sorority, so I understood like our history is very similar to in many ways. And the, and I have friends who are in that kind of like community. And so understanding like the reasons why you joined a historically black sorority is very different than if you were joining. At CAPA Delta, like it's just, they're very different. The way you interact, the way you, what you do is very different. And the author miss the mark so badly. 'Cause it was a twist and I was like, oh no, this is not the right thing.

Interesting.

Done a little bit of research and just use this part. Maybe it will work, but it did not. And that's I, that was like one, sometimes it's a little bit of research,

that's too bad.

Yes. So

Did you tell, did you reach out to the author?

I did not, I, I. It's an Amazon book. So

Interesting.

it's an Amazon Im print book. It's a top 100, I don't think, I just don't think the author just did the research.

Yeah.

I think they did it for shock value, and it's just pretty much, it's a popcorn thriller and it's just basically was like, oh, it did. And I confirmed with other reviewers. It was like, oh, this is not supposed to, so it was like, oh, I thought it was just me. Sometimes I feel gaslit by you know what the story is, and did I get a ride? Did I get it wrong? And that's just, and so obviously it is, but the author is well known I think they're a psychologist and so they do a good job of the psychology of things. But this book was just, it missed a mark,

got it. All right. That's too bad.

Yeah. It, everyone has everyone has a doud. It's not, it doesn't make it like, I'm not gonna DF like everyone has a doud. So. Yeah. But yeah. So, all right, so let's talk about gauge reading. What are we expecting this summer? What,

so this throughout all of June in Celebration of Pride, I have two episodes dropping every single week, and on every episode I have a conversation with an author. But I also have a conversation with a guest gay reader. And so I would say 80% of the authors that I talk to, particularly this month are lgbtqia plus. But every episode also has a guest gay reader, so there are gay people all over the place on gay's reading, so, so there. So I'm talking to four different people every single week.

Oh my.

and there's just a lot, there's a lot of great conversations and great content and great episodes, and there are some authors that are beloved and there are different kinds of genres. There's just a lot to look forward to, and I'm so excited.

Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. I am so excited. So Jason, tell us, we can find you, we'll put the links and everything on sub. We'll put a listicle of episodes so they can start listening to them. You.

Amazing. I'll also tell you that I'm excited because I'm taking August off, so Gabe's reading will be quiet in August

Oh, you're just,

a break.

you're taking European summer.

Yes, exactly. but September is already booked. So there's,

yeah.

The break will be very short, but you could find gaze reading the podcast wherever you get your podcast. So Apple and Spotify, and Overcast, and all the places. You could go to gaze reading.com. You can find us on Instagram at Gaze Reading. We're on Blue Sky, we're on YouTube. We're all over the place. I just launched some gaze reading merchandise, so you could buy some cute gaze reading merch and it's pride. So you could, if you are, if you happen to be LGBT, you could get like a gay reader sweatshirt. Or if you're an ally you can get an A is for ally t-shirt or whatever. There's lots of fun stuff out there. And yeah. Where else? That's the, I'm also on Substack, so you could go over to find us on the Gays Reading. Substack. There's Everywhere. Search Gaze Reading Search, gaze Reading podcast. And you'll find us.

I love this and so thank you Jason for reading the show and just a reminder, we rega all your round, so

we do. So fun. Thank you so much for having me.

Awesome.