PJ Ellis (00:38)

Right, we've got a good one ahead of us. Welcome to the Witt and Gritt podcast. We are with two lovely people and you Andy, of course, mate, of course. Good morning. Let's dive straight into it. A young person in PATH and a young, lovely person in Emma. Over to you PATH, the floor is yours. Who are you? Who is PATH? Tell us more,

Andy Dawson (00:45)

Okay.

Parth (00:58)

I'm currently a third year student at Aston University looking for a placement. Accounting and Finance.

PJ Ellis (01:03)

Okay, what you doing at Aston?

very nice, very nice. I could do with someone looking at my books. Not too much though. Emma, what about yourself, madam?

Emma (01:12)

Hi guys, I'm Emma Neal. I am a Senior Teaching Fellow at Aston University teaching marketing. I'm also the employability enterprise entrepreneur lead for our department. Really happy to be joining you guys today.

PJ Ellis (01:29)

Emma, I know some brilliant things that you do at that university. By the end of this week, Emma will have another title on top of that. She does so much there. And Andy, who are you, mate?

Emma (01:34)

Thank

Andy Dawson (01:38)

Yeah, I'm Andy. I'm half of Witton Grid, not quite sure which one. Guess we'll find out.

PJ Ellis (01:43)

No,

we haven't worked that out yet. If we might to be fair, sometimes we're weak, sometimes we're great. So we were brought together basically over a conversation that Andy had ⁓ about, well, a number of things really. We wanted to talk to a brilliant local university and a brilliant person within that brilliant university. So we thought of Emma, we were gonna have a coffee with you, weren't we, Bab? And then Andy said, I've just spoke to this gentleman called Parth. Let's bring these two lovely people together, right? And I've got a feeling.

Emma (02:02)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (02:09)

from what you've just said there, Parth, why we've been brought together. So give me a little bit more of an insight into that, mate. You're looking for a placement. What's that all about?

Parth (02:16)

So when applying for ASIN, I mainly chose it for its placement year because it's compulsory. It's just where you look for a placement in your field just to get some experience. So when you look for post-grad jobs, it's a lot easier. The requirements you need is 30 weeks and it has to be at least 16 hours per week. So it's not too much and it's not like they're not asking for a lot, but it's just a matter of actually getting one, which is kind of difficult.

PJ Ellis (02:41)

Yeah. So you're looking for a placement. So you want to be, do you know what you want to be? Yeah. When you grow up.

Parth (02:47)

No, because that's the issue. We haven't really done a lot of modules in each field. like tax, we've done one module in tax and then I'd say about two in audit. So right now want to say audit because I hate the tax module. but I could like in the end find out tax is more interesting. So.

Emma (03:00)

Thank

PJ Ellis (03:04)

Okay, and how are you getting on then? So let me get this straight. You're in your second year, is that right? Third year, okay. If you don't get a placement, how does that work then? Do you have to get a placement by a certain date, you?

Parth (03:10)

Ferja. Yeah.

⁓ I've

got to the first of November to find one. If I don't find one, said I have to sit out the year and then next year just try again.

PJ Ellis (03:23)

Okay. So you don't get to finish your third year.

Parth (03:26)

year because it's compulsory so you can't change to a three-year course instead.

PJ Ellis (03:32)

Got you, okay.

Andy Dawson (03:33)

So just to build on that for a bit of background. So I've got the pleasure of knowing Parth for the last kind of season or two through cricket, where he's really helped my young lad Ben develop it. He's a lovely young lad. And it kind of links back to the theme of the podcast originally, Paige, doesn't it? think when we're thinking about our kids in particular, what's the future look like for them? You've got things like AI happening and how can we give them a boost? And I think...

Add to that the challenges globally at the moment about the economy and uncertainty and, you know, what's coming down the road in terms of budgets. It's difficult time for companies as well, I think, to offer that hand of support. So we're kind of caught in a bit of a storm here that makes it really, really difficult for young people to get the opportunities they deserve so they can thrive in the future. So I think it's just really good to shine a bit of a light on this because it's not about the university. It's not necessarily about PATH. It's about this is going on all around the country.

And I think the more conscious we are as leaders about it, the greater the opportunity to put that hand down and lift those people up to stand on our shoulders in the future, which is what it's all about.

PJ Ellis (04:35)

that. And on that then, suppose, know Emma, you are certainly one of those individuals that are putting that hand down and lifting these people up. Tell me a bit more about that within your role and the university,

Emma (04:46)

So I used to work in industry, so I started life in an agency, then I went to a corporate, and one of the main reasons I went into teaching was to bridge that gap, because I really felt that when I was recruiting grads and placement students, that there was some gaps within university education and not getting the experience possibly that they needed to get these roles.

Also things like resilience, negotiation, presentation skills, all of these things I felt were really missing. So when I went into teaching, I wanted to bridge that gap with my practitioner experience and building my networks and building all those kind of skills that we feel that grads need and especially when they're getting a placement like PATH, it's having that experience at uni to then...

bridge that gap so that when you go out and do a placement year, companies want to keep you on after, which is fantastic. We find a lot of our students do a placement year and then the company either gives them a couple of days a week when they go back to uni in the fourth year or they say keep in touch and then when you've finished then we'll give you that opportunity. So I think the main reason I went into teaching was to give students that practical experience.

I'm very fortunate that I have got a big network, so I do open a lot of doors for students, but I think it's encouraging businesses to take that opportunity and give students that opportunity to prove themselves in that placement year.

Andy Dawson (06:20)

Emma, given all your experience of being involved in this, do you think it is getting harder? Is it always being a challenge to get the placements? I just think about the environment we're in at the moment. And I wonder if that with the constant change that's going on, whether there's less opportunities or it's always been like this.

Emma (06:37)

I think since lockdown, it's definitely been a bit more of a challenge because Aston it's compulsory placement year. So I think there's more.

of responsibility as lecturers and academics and students to make these connections themselves as well. We've got an amazing careers team but it's also everybody having to take responsibility and I think it's building those networks and encouraging employers to to take the leap just to have that. It's a lot more flexible now so I know students have to do those certain amount of weeks but if

as a business, you're listening to this podcast and you think, actually, I'd like to do that, but I don't want to commit to the full six to 12 months. Then you can do three months. You can do short term placement opportunities just for you to test the water. So then students can, if they prove themselves and continue and do the full weeks that are required for their placement year. it is, think, I think obviously businesses are more stretched now.

They probably feel like they don't have the time or the capacity but it's a lot more flexible now so that they can so it's not a full year so if they want to have students for shorter times then it's possible.

PJ Ellis (07:53)

That's a great shout, thanks Emma. Anyone listening, help us out. We can be that connector, just like Emma, Neil and her team is. We'll come back to you a bit about that, Emma, because I know some of the stuff that you do within that marketing agency that you set up within the university is fantastic for the students. Parth, Emma and Andy there mentioned that it's a challenge. Of course, you're finding it a challenge. What is the reality to you? What does that actually feel like and look like? Tell me a little bit more about how many applications you made. you getting...

Parth (08:12)

BLEH

⁓

Yeah, so yeah, it's, I think I started slightly late to be fair. But I have still done a fair amount, like the main ones and even the smaller ones, I've gone out my way to the smaller businesses. But what I found with the smaller ones, they say they don't really have the staff or like the facilities to help with the placement. I haven't asked for like voluntary, like I'll do it for free. And I said, we just don't have the capacity to help you. And then I think for the

PJ Ellis (08:20)

you're getting people respond, you know.

Parth (08:44)

big ones like the top four. It's more the interview stage. a lot. It's not how I'd expect it to be because I thought it'd be like this, like face to face online. But I think it's like you do a set questions that they've pre-recorded and it goes through an AI detector to see if you're like looking away and just check your body language. So

I think I fail the most on that because I just don't like looking at myself speak. But I think a lot of students are in the same category where they just don't feel comfortable in that first set. But then when we've gone to like in person, it's a lot different. So I think that's the main reality is just getting used to the looking at yourself and being comfortable in what you're saying and just do as many as you can so then the first couple don't expect to get it and then you've

built some kind of experience? Good question. It's just a bit demoralizing because you see, it's not even that they don't give you a reason to just say that set AI response saying you're not a fit candidate for our stuff or we found a better suited person. So it's a bit demoralizing, but you just got to keep doing it. And the more you do, the better chances you have.

PJ Ellis (09:34)

How's that make you feel, mate?

Andy Dawson (09:56)

Good for you, mate. I've had a little rant on this podcast before about AI rejections. My eldest applied for a hospitality job about 10 o'clock one Saturday night and he got rejected about 1 a.m. Sunday morning with a pre-AI authorized response. So yes, it's just not nice, isn't it? And I guess you understand the efficiency aspects.

companies because they get a lot of applications and it's so tempting to be efficient, but there's difference between being efficient and being effective. Effective is about finding the best, efficient is just about scaling down a number. So I feel for you on that. I think one of them, I mean, that idea of looking away, I've spent many years being uncomfortable. I still am uncomfortable looking at myself in the mirror. It's a bit of a horror show some mornings. So I totally get how difficult that can be.

Parth (10:34)

You

Andy Dawson (10:47)

So when you've kind of got through to the face-to-face stuff, how has that felt? How has that gone? How prepared have you felt for those?

Parth (10:54)

I feel like it's a lot easier face to face because it's more natural rather than like you're recording yourself and it's just one person speaking to yourself whereas in person you've got a couple people in the room and you're just having a conversation it feels more natural and like you can feel more relaxed in it especially if you know the company you've done your research there's not a lot they could ask you that throws you off so I found it I found it

bit more comfortable and more relaxed when I was in person. Compared to online, I just hated the online stuff.

PJ Ellis (11:23)

You know what, it's weird because, mean, might've come across this, you probably aren't around this sort of processing piece, but you know, if a business is using AI, I can understand why it's, you know, they are, but even when I'm looking at you now or Parth or Andy or even myself, when it's recorded or it looks like I'm never looking at the screen, so if AI is picking, I mean, I think my question is right. My concern, right, he's gonna hate me saying this, but my son Parth, you present.

Brilliantly, mate, by the way. I know this is not a mutual appreciation society, but I feel like there's confidence, resilience, all the good things that I hope and pray my kids have when they grow up. I think I'm seeing in front of me here, but I've still got this guy that's not getting these opportunities. Emma, know you are a big advocate for that, you? Making sure you look at these, we say soft skills, but the hard skills, aren't they? These resilience, the commitment that let's go again.

What stuff are you doing at the moment? Tell me a bit more about this stuff that you've done before the last couple of years. I know you've worked so hard on helping people like Parth and my kids and Andy's and all of our children improve those skills. What stuff do you do?

Emma (12:29)

So when I redesigned the BSc Marketing degree, I really wanted to embed these essential skills that you're talking about. the things like the resilience, the team working, the communication, all these things that maybe, you know, I've got kids as well, 21 year old twins, and some of these have got a bit lost.

And I think it was those skills that when I was redesigning the program and I spoke to employers, I spoke to agencies, I spoke to recruiters, I spoke to students, and these key skills were really missing. I think no fault of anybody's, was just, they just kind of dropped off a bit. So we created a module, Essential Skills for Marketers, and we worked with a recruiter.

and we had like a live brief so the students had to apply for a job. They had to create a TikTok, they had to do a CV, they had to do a cover letter, they had to do their LinkedIn profile and they basically had to apply for a job and it just gave them that kind of confidence and they were building that resilience in a controlled environment and we also work

very closely with our careers team and we got them in and they came in and they did assessment centres and you're going back path what you said about going to like the big organisations they open up their placement opportunities now for next September.

So it is being ahead of the game. So with that module, we do it second term, first year. So all of our students on the BSc Marketing course have got everything ready to go. So they've got their CV, they've got that we've got CV 360 through the university. So you can put that through and then it tests it and then you can go and see a careers advisor, interview 360. So you're practicing those online interviews, which are

Yeah, nobody really likes them, but they're around, unfortunately, to stay. So it's practicing those. So we try and embed that fully in the curriculum so that by the time they get into the second year and they're starting to look for placements, they're already one step of the game. And I think that's really helping our second year. So this this was a new module that I introduced September 24. So they're now going into the second year and they've got everything ready to go.

So they're out there and linking so I've linked with lots of agencies like the TRIBERA team doing TRIBERA Academy getting our students to do internships over the summer WPR do loads of internships with our students smaller companies our companies contact me so then they're building their CV in the first and second year ready for placement so I think that's really helped.

Andy Dawson (15:11)

Thank

PJ Ellis (15:18)

Is that not rolled across the whole of the university then at Emerald? Is it just in certain degrees?

Emma (15:22)

There

are employability modules in other degrees and every single year a student has a module attached to our careers team so 10 % of that module they have to do a careers element like applying for a job, looking for a role.

So that's already embedded across all of the degrees. But what I want to do in marketing was go that one step further and have those live. So I work with a lot of companies and we have live briefs as well. So the students are doing a hands on practical experience. So we've got a live client in our stakeholder relationship module, the old PR module peach that you did.

Andy Dawson (15:41)

Thank

Yeah.

Emma (16:08)

And so we've got a live client there, so the students are going to have to pitch back to the client. So they're having that experience and I think building that resilience and confidence before then they try and look for a placement just helps bridge that gap. We also do over the summer professional qualification so they can get their Charleston Institute of Marketing qualification at the end of the first year. So then they've got a professional qualification.

So it's fully embedded. So they do one module at the end of the first year, one module at the end of the second year. So then they've got the professional qualification as well. So I think now, going back to what Andy said about how it's changing, I think it's getting so competitive that I think you have to, as a student, just embrace everything that's offered at the university.

because there's so much help available, it's all it's building your brand, building who you are and building that portfolio before you go out there and get a placement and a grad roll.

Andy Dawson (17:03)

I don't know.

PJ Ellis (17:03)

Wow, I wanna do a marketing degree now. That's amazing.

Andy Dawson (17:07)

⁓ I love that. was with, talking about future skills. was with a CEO of a large college group, kind of locally at an event yesterday. And she talked about how in the last couple of years, they've started to really pivot their courses. And she describes them as towards sensational skills, which I just love as a term. yeah, which is around things like adaptability, flexibility, resilience.

Emma (17:19)

Yeah.

That's good.

Andy Dawson (17:29)

And being able to kind of want one team was another concept, both working with people, but interestingly working with robots with the kind of, kind of the future in mind. And we've chatted a couple of times on this podcast about some schools out in America whereby literally the morning is dedicated to tailored AI learning with guides. And the afternoon is all about those foundational skills needed for the future to develop kids.

project skills, resilience, and really starting to pivot towards a new world because, you know, the world of AI is moving so quick. It's the human side, I think, that's going to come to the fore. So I guess question for you, Emma, and I'll come back with one for you, Parth. When thinking about employers, so you'll talk to a lot of employers, I'm an employer, What's the dialogue like between, how does that feed into your

courses around what they're saying they need in the future and how does that start to come down to what the kids go through when they come to the uni.

Emma (18:29)

I think it's really important and I think when I redesigned the ⁓ programme, employers were a big key to how I created it and making it future proof because I think with marketing especially, it is so fast moving. It's just...

I mean, AI is here to stay. We've got to embrace that. We've got a full content marketing module that uses Adobe AI, uses Express. The students creates a brand using AI or the brand. So we're giving, helping them with the prompts. So we don't want to lose that creativity of our students. And they are still a million times better than AI, but it's how you use prompts to produce these.

fantastic brands and logos and all the designs that they're doing on the AI. So when I was redesigning the program, I worked a lot with employers and agencies and things like digital.

Digital analytics was a massive one that came out that students needed more on that. So we've got a full digital analytics module now looking at like GA4, SEMrush, all these key skills. But I think one of the things that came out with employers especially was mindset. So having that positive mindset and that confidence.

And what I try and do with the students is build their confidence and get them to focus on the goals and the future and what they want to be kind of in five years time. How am I going to get there? So I want to be an influencer, marketer, coordinator, a big brand. OK, how are you going to get there? What are the steps you need to take to get there? So I think working with employers, especially, and finding out where those gaps were.

And you can go and get a marketing degree from a hundred universities across the UK, but it's having those opportunities at these universities and making sure that we open doors for students. I found that giving them those opportunities and not everybody embraces them, but the ones that do.

really appreciate it and move forward. I've been teaching now probably for about 15 years at different universities and I've been very lucky. I've always worked at very practitioner focused universities and it's so nice because I see these students now and they're doing really well and I see them in person and I see them at events and it's so nice to see that the ones that embraced it have done so well. So I think employers want

universities and educators and colleges and everybody to be able to bridge some of those gaps so that when they do go and go in the world of work they're all almost going to hit the ground running because these are going to be the future future leaders so we want to create that we want to make sure that they've got the right skills in place to have that positive mindset so they can have the confidence to go in and they they are.

They are capable, but it's the confidence. I find that at the moment, especially with young people, they, tell them they're brilliant and they're going to know a lot more around the table about things like AI and digital and all these things. But it's having that confidence to be able to sit there and say, yeah, actually I can do this. So that's why bridging that gap is hopefully creating these confident future marketeers.

Andy Dawson (21:53)

Brilliant. I love that. Totally agree. And Peej makes me think there should be some sort of event in the future to kind of bring people together to talk about this shouldn't there? Yeah. should be some sort of event. Anyway, Parth, quick one for you Squire. Again, I was chatting to someone yesterday and we talked about AI and actually talking about students, but also my kids have been through this. We've been through a period where everyone seems to be worrying about, people using AI to cheat.

PJ Ellis (21:59)

Ooh, is that a tease, mate? Is that a tease?

Andy Dawson (22:18)

you know, to cheat with the papers, to cheat with the tests. However, it seems to be switching now to, you know what? Actually, I really want people who know how to use AI because it's the future. So if they're cheating, brilliant, just do it in the right way, please. AI is, that's the skill set we need to, and as Emma's just superbly articulated, to then compliment it with the human skill. So I guess a question for you.

Parth (22:40)

you

Andy Dawson (22:42)

Go back to when I was in your position, Parth, well, I can't even count the number of years that was. But how do you feel about going into a world of work, sometime soon in the future where AI is a key element of it? How do you prepare yourself for that? How do you think about that?

Parth (22:55)

To be fair, think I use AI a lot, even in uni when it comes to coursework. To generate ideas, AI is very, very useful. And even cross-checking tables that you've done, like financial statements you've done just to check if you've made any silly mistakes, it's a good tool to have. But a lot of people overuse it in the sense of they base their whole essay off it.

which I think isn't the right way of going about it, but generating ideas and then using your own notes that you've made in classes and stuff is what I did and it managed to help me a lot to be fair. And when it comes to work, it's going to be the same. It's always going to have tools that will help you. And there's software is now like Sage Zero that people use and they cross-reference it with AI to check if we've done anything wrong.

So I think it's, if anything, it'll be beneficial for most people in the future.

PJ Ellis (23:43)

Have you started building out any agents path on... I'm seeing this now, people are building their own teams through AI. I'm just thinking of you here. Emma said, employers now are looking for so competitive the landscape. People are looking for that brand of that individual, how creative that individual can be. Potentially, you could get an agent to be your marketing assistant.

to be the person that will apply on your behalf to suggest all these TikTok dances that you need to do to get in front of PwC, et cetera. How important is it? if anything, have you looked at brand, your own personal brand, what PATH stands for, what he looks like, what he's all about? mean, are you on social media a lot?

Parth (24:07)

Hehehe

I wouldn't say a lot, I haven't really thought about my brand though. It hasn't really come across my thoughts to be fair. I only picked up on it when Emma started talking about it and I was like that's something I might have to implement going forward.

PJ Ellis (24:38)

Yeah, I think I'm not going to put an Albatross around your neck there as like some of the point in your to-do list. But I think I'm trying to think when I was an employer, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying you should find time to better sift through CVs and what have you, but you're not necessarily that time rich. So you'd probably look on platforms that you're more comfortable on or around. So I'm always on LinkedIn and I'd probably put your name into LinkedIn and see what you're about.

Parth (24:41)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (25:01)

I'm not saying that's probably the right way forward, but maybe it some, have you looked at, have any of your mates been lucky in getting a placement?

Parth (25:09)

Yeah, a lot of them. So I know quite a few of my friends, like even in London. So one goes to KCL and one goes to UCL. The one that goes KCL managed to find one, because I think it depends on the sector of what you're going in, because computer science, there's a lot you can do under it, like crypto, then you've got actual software engineering and stuff. So he managed to find an internship. But my friend that goes to UCL, does

economics there and he was trying to get, I think it was Actual or Consultation like role but he applied to probably more than a lot more than me not probably yet he definitely did and he found nothing back so he's just gone to his final year because it weren't compulsory but even he said like the struggle is because of how many Unis are going through and how little places there actually are to offer a lot of students find it more difficult

PJ Ellis (25:59)

I mean, is there anything, I mean, you said there that your mates have applied for more than you have. That's maybe a learn or a lesson. I'm not here to teach or to, you but is there anything from a brand perspective, are they on social media more than you maybe or?

Parth (26:04)

Yeah.

Yeah.

it

⁓

I think they're more in tune to LinkedIn than I was initially. Recently I've started to use it more. But I think for most students I would recommend starting LinkedIn as soon as possible because it's more about the people you know to get a job I think. If you've got a very good connection I think it helps. So just networking off LinkedIn which is very good.

place to do it is I think very beneficial because you can even send a message saying to anyone in that company saying what like what's the ideal roles or values you might look for so before going into an interview you can prep like that so recently when I started it I've gone for more interviews recently and I've seen people on LinkedIn that are part of the company so I've sent them a little message just saying hi introduce myself and said I've got an interview

what would you say is the best way to prepare for it, what should I look into? And they gave me some good ideas and good insight into the company, so I think any student that's going into it, would recommend looking at LinkedIn.

PJ Ellis (27:16)

Yeah, 100%. I'm gonna give you a bit of a task in a minute, mate. You're gonna pitch down that camera for a roll in a minute. So prep that because we are gonna get you a placement off the back of this podcast. That is my promise with a lowercase P to you. Emma, from Path then, get the, you know, I think that's a great shout out. That's a great call that is, Path, for people to get onto LinkedIn. Not to, as I said, not to let that define your dictate.

Emma (27:25)

Thank

Andy Dawson (27:34)

Thank you.

PJ Ellis (27:41)

what you're all about, but it does help. It's as simple as that, isn't it? It's a networking group. Emma, you said earlier, and I've seen some brilliant people grow through the support you've given them. You had someone on that women in marketing panel the other day, didn't you, Chloe? Was it Chloe, was it? Yeah, she did Gymshark, Hudritch, lot, hasn't she, I think, from memory? Ralph Lowe, there we go. Just another little brand, as you know.

Emma (27:53)

Yeah, from Hudritch.

Ralph Lauren Ralph Lauren

Parth (28:01)

Hope.

PJ Ellis (28:03)

Do think you said earlier those people that benefited from that support were the ones that embraced it? Was networking a big part of that?

Andy Dawson (28:09)

Thank you.

Emma (28:11)

100 % and I think networking when you're a young person is really hard because you think what am going to do? How am I going to go there? And I think as we all know that first networking event when you walk in the room, it's like an out of body experience isn't it? But I remember someone, so my husband gave me a really good tip that when you go to networking events, always be the first one there.

because if you're the first one there, people think you're part of the event. So everybody then starts to talk to you. So you're actually there and you're like, hello. And so you stood with the organisers and then everybody walks up to you and introduces themselves. So when you gave me that little tip, it kind of changed my whole view on networking. And I think encouraging students to network.

Andy Dawson (28:41)

Nice.

Emma (28:59)

I invite them along. So thanks for the plug, Peej. So we set up the Birmingham Women in Marketing. So Fran from Trivea had this idea a year ago and then 10 of us set up Birmingham Women in Marketing. It has taken off. So it's not just for women. So if you're listening to this thinking, can I come along? Yeah, you can come along. You don't have to be a marketing, you don't have to be a woman. But it's fantastic space for people to feel confident. They come along. We've got a whole range.

of young people, people changing their career, people at the end of their career. So it's just a fantastic range of people that come along to these events. And I think just taking that step. I've taken when you used to do your events, PJ, the light box, I brought a group of students along, don't know whether you remember. I sent out a message saying, I'm going to this networking event. It's fantastic. Come along with me if you want to come.

PJ Ellis (29:48)

Yeah, do ya?

Emma (29:54)

And so I took five students along to this networking event and I just said, go on, go and talk to people. And I think it just gives people that confidence. And I think Parso writes building those networks because it is sometimes about who you know. And then they'll recommend you to go and speak to someone else and all this. So just having that confidence online, initially on LinkedIn, building those networks because people will connect with you on LinkedIn.

It's not like the social media platform so connect with all these places where you want to work, where you want to have placement or internship and then go to some of the events. Get in touch with your own lecturer, ask them what you can do, speak to the universities, speak to colleges.

Wherever you are, if you're listening to this thinking, just want to go to a networking event and build my confidence, just have someone to take you along that first one and just open that door because I think it's so important networking.

Andy Dawson (30:50)

Just to build on that, it took me a long, long, long time to get comfortable networking. I was never a natural. I still struggle from times going into a really empty room, especially you're right, Emma. If I'm the last, I'll try and do my prep beforehand to think, if I know a couple of people are be there, I look for them and I wanna ask them. So there's lots of tips for networking, isn't there? And I think the one your husband gave you there's kind of a fantastic one.

And also I think there's two benefits, isn't there? You're getting to know new people, but also listening to what's going on around you and kind of understanding the context of what's important from a business perspective, a city perspective, a region perspective. And even, you know, we've been going, what is it now, 17 years at Curium. And as a company, not necessarily, everyone's a bit different. We're still guilty of not understanding enough about what's

going on around us and, some really senior, very, very high quality consultants are not as comfortable doing networking stuff. So it's a perfectly natural kind of human worry. but as Jocko Willinich, I think that's his name, the former US Navy SEAL says in situations like that, just go, just do it. You know, cause every, and realize everyone feels very, very similar to you in that room.

It's not a room full of mates. Everyone just said, just go and just do it and build that muscle. That resilience muscle. Poth, have you had any kind of exposure to kind of formal networking through? Do companies still come to universities? I

Parth (32:23)

yeah, during my second year towards the start, a lot of companies came to Aston, but it was like, it weren't just accounting, so there was like stuff for engineering and stuff as well. BDO came and Bishop Fleming came from the accounting sector. So was nice to meet Amazars. So I spoke to all of them just to get insight on what they do and what they offer.

And well, this was when I weren't really using LinkedIn, but if I was to do it again, I would try to connect with them on LinkedIn just to get a network and to see who like, cause on LinkedIn, you can see what they've done and what experiences they've had. you could talk about, it's not like I look at it like you don't have to talk about what accounts in per se, you could talk about what they've done and say, ⁓ how did that help you get what you've got now kind of thing.

because people think of it as like a chalk kind of, to connect with someone I think now. But it's more, it doesn't have to be about accounting per se, you could just talk about something you may have in common off his profile or something, just to start the conversation and then you can build up to it. But to go back to events, I haven't really, I've attended one outside of the uni, but not too many.

PJ Ellis (33:33)

I'm just looking for some here for you, mate. I'm literally, I'm on the mazars. I didn't know they've just merged. Well, I'll say just. Yeah, there's a few coming up actually, but you're right. You know what, mate? When I started out in, I don't know how I got into networking, to be fair. You just do, you, Emma? And you just find yourself at an event. But I remember what helped me, and people might think I'm confident.

Parth (33:35)

Hehehehe

PJ Ellis (33:57)

really socially awkward to be fair. All those advices that Emma and Andy just gave you and not to you, but to the people who are listening, a bang on. And actually what you've said there about networking doesn't have to be about the subject. You're either there to listen to or the thing that you want to do. It's about people, isn't it? It's about understanding what path's all about because that's where you build those connections. that's who, you know, employers, I assume, are looking to work with.

Parth (34:16)

Hmm.

PJ Ellis (34:24)

It's not necessarily, I mean, this will stand in your favor as well, but you're gonna get a first class degree and all that. what sport do you like, mate? What are you into?

Parth (34:31)

I play ranger sports but my main one I'd want to say is cricket. Also enjoy bit of badminton, football, so... And then you... I support Tottenham Hartsworth.

PJ Ellis (34:35)

There we go.

Pooja support.

All right, moving on. Emma, how are we getting on

that? You strike up a chord, don't you? It resonates. I think that's really important, Parth, and think the more people you speak to. mean, have you spoken to those people that you mentioned at Mazars? Have you actually said to them, hi, Mr. Mazars, can you give me a role?

Parth (34:46)

Yeah.

Um, I spoke, well, one of them was a, he was like in my similar field that he just had like a, he was like a, I think apprenticeship he was doing there. So he came to talk and he was like, um, that he gave me connections to people that he knew. Um, so on LinkedIn, I went and spoke to them as well. So I just sent them a message saying, um, is there any advice you would go to like to give to anyone that's trying to apply to Mizzouz? Um, and it managed to work. Um, I got through to the.

I had to do, I got through the first stage and I had like a, I think it was an amplitude test to do. I think just speaking to the person and getting an insight of what they look for, it really helped with my cover letter, especially because it helps with what to add onto it. Cause they look for, they look for like not just what you offer, but why you want to go to that company.

PJ Ellis (35:39)

Yeah.

Parth (35:45)

So I think getting to know someone from the company helped. After speaking to someone from the company, this is what I've learned and this is why I like it kind of thing. So that helped a lot.

PJ Ellis (35:53)

Yeah. like

that. Emma, it, I mean, when Parthy's reaching out to businesses now and individuals, what have you, you mentioned the cover letter there. That scares me, the cover letter. I hate writing a cover letter because you don't know what to put in it. How long should it be? What's the hook? Have you got any creative ideas? Have you seen any students of yours that have been a bit more creative in their cover letter that have worked? Video, TikTok.

Andy Dawson (36:05)

Thank

PJ Ellis (36:20)

Any ideas?

Emma (36:21)

I think it depends on the brand. So totally depends on the brand. I mean, you may have seen like a while ago, it's probably about five years ago now when somebody wanted to work at Pretty Little Thing and they did a cutout of themselves. So they actually had one designed of themselves and then took it to Pretty Little Thing in Manchester, put it there and said, I can see myself working here. So things like that.

PJ Ellis (36:23)

Okay.

yeah

Emma (36:46)

I don't expect all students to do that because obviously very expensive and yeah, not always hits the brand correctly, but it worked for that brand. But I think I do look at cover letters with students and they go to our careers team as well. But I think the main thing now with cover letters and I think because some are going through AI, so they're like automated and it's just making sure you hit all of the things on the spec.

Andy Dawson (36:50)

Thank you.

Emma (37:13)

So you're saying what do they want? So for example, when I looked at one the other day, communication skills. So, but yes, I have communication skills. How have you got communication skills within a module? I worked with this brand and I did this, this, this. I worked with business to business communications, B2C communication. So trying to get those key things in.

So you're giving those examples, so giving that the situation and then you're given an example so that you're not just saying, I have communication skills, I have IT skills. So you're actually hitting all of those because if it does go through AI and it will do with the big companies, it's not being thrown out straight away. I think if it's more of a creative type of role, then maybe your CV does need to be a bit more creative. I've spoke to quite a few.

recruiters over the last few months and they've said now that some companies are going away from cover letters and CVs just because they want to kind of get more creative people is it going to be a video is it going to be a tick tock is it going to be something a bit more creative but i think as well it's the employers having to adapt to the new employees

because they don't want to be in nine to five. They don't want to be in the office five days a week. They want difference as well. So I think it's like both the employer and the employee having to adapt. So I think it's obviously the ones that are doing it really well are embracing it and they're getting really young talent and have building those really good cultures. But I think some organizations may be a bit behind the curve.

So they just need to make sure that if they want the traditional cover letter and they want the traditional CV that they are having the right spec and getting the right people in front of them.

PJ Ellis (39:00)

Yeah, I mean, I was just going to suggest, I I suspect there will be rules and regulations as to what they expect, but have you ever tried like a video cover letter path? I mean, something that might stand out, you know.

Parth (39:10)

⁓ to

be fair most of them do you say that one in a cappella format so it it depends i think it depends more on the roof i think maybe marketing or something like drama or something according to that it might it might sees it but i think for a cat most of the said pdf format said okay

PJ Ellis (39:15)

Okay.

Yeah.

You know what, mate? You know what? Emma might give you some advice on this. I don't know why I'm whispering, but you can put into PDFs. So put a weird link at the end and they'll click it. Ta-da, it's a video. Hello, up for joining this. I love cricket. I love football.

Parth (39:44)

my parents are fairly confident as well so it does help but I think I did my parents pushed me to do like Lambda so it's like speaking in front of people and group like group speakings and stuff so that helped because I started at a very young age and then I carried it on up until I was about 14, 15 so that helped a lot

it's just getting you out, like getting out of your comfort zone because even in coaching I have to speak to the parents even if I don't want to so it's kind of forced upon you so I think you pick it up with

the more you get out of your comfort zone, I'd say.

Andy Dawson (40:16)

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. think my, my eldest, again, was quite, he's only 17. I think I've said this before, quiet, is. but now he started working weddings at the weekends, dealing with dealing with brides, illers and grooms and pissed guests and all that kind of stuff. Last week, he got offered management training and I've never seen him so happy in terms of, cause he's not sporty. It's not nothing. actually, he never phoned, you know, when the kid phoned you in the middle of the school day and he go.

What's he done? ⁓ Yeah. And he said, dad, I've got management training and I never heard him so happy. So that kind of contacts for parents and adults and grow up, I think so, so important, isn't it? I've got, I think parts just pitched himself pretty well, PJ, don't you?

Emma (40:44)

Yeah.

That's amazing.

PJ Ellis (41:01)

I do, mate, there's definitely bits out

of here that I'm be reusing and circulating

Andy Dawson (41:05)

actually going to have a question for Emma. This is a bit selfish. Right. So I looked at your profile, Emma, and I've heard all about the wonderful things you do. I love the quote at the top of your LinkedIn profile. I'll read it out. can't pronounce his name perfectly. The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion. Paul Quello, I think it is. Love that. Just tell us a little bit about why you've got that there.

Emma (41:27)

I think, I think Paz said this as well, just, I think it's about being your authentic self. And I think it is, I see it sound really cliche, but it is making a difference. And I really feel that when, when you go into the world of work and when you go through your life, and I think as, as I've got older, especially, and having children myself, I think it is about

creating those opportunities and making sure that people have the confidence and being authentic so you are always kind of thrive to be a better person. So I think it is I'm trying to kind of get people and I say this all the time to students it's about being yourself. So when you go for interviews just be yourself it's okay if you make a mistake it's okay if you do something wrong it's okay but

you want to see an authentic person and you want people to be who they are and it's about being you. I think that I think Parth hit the nail on head when he said that it is it's building your own confidence and I wasn't very confident when I was younger either and I think it is building your confidence by doing these little things and just going to a networking event or just

I mean, like, so for example, one of our first tasks for students on day one at university, they have to do a TikTok and it's getting them to do a TikTok and straight out when they do TikToks all day long, but to actually do it for something at university is slightly different. But just having that confidence straight away, they're in a team straight away, they're building their confidence, building their resilience. And I think it's just as a young person.

It is tough, it's really tough out there and the competition is massive and you don't know what you want to do and everything's expensive now, I mean to get on the party ladder and everything, it's just that those barriers for those young people and I think we're very similar, all of us are very similar, it's kind of I want to create those moments for young people.

Andy Dawson (43:11)

Thanks.

Mm-hmm.

Emma (43:30)

to have those opportunities and open those doors that I didn't necessarily have until kind of later in life. But open those doors and I think as well things like mentoring really helped me. So I don't know whether you've got yourself a mentor path but just contact someone on LinkedIn that you really respect and ask them to be a mentor. So

I've had unofficial mentors all my life that have helped me. So I've set up a mentor with Brumwim. So we matched people and that's really helped. So I had a mentee and we've had mentors and it's just really helped people build their confidence. So I think as we get older and we want to give back, think people should help young people.

and think employers that are maybe wobbling thinking, I don't know whether we've got the capacity, just give a young person an opportunity, even if it's for a week or a month or just some kind of opportunity to prove themselves. Because I think they'll be pleasantly surprised at how talented and how resilient and how confident that these young people are because they're the future. So it's giving them those opportunities.

Andy Dawson (44:40)

Amen to that. Well said Emma. Just final reflection for me, and this applies to each of you on the screen here and everyone who's listening. We all strive to be world class at something. And I think it's important at times to remember that there's something we are all the best in the world at. Every single one of us is the best in the world at being ourselves.

And I think it's something that's so easy to forget. that's, that's a really important thing to kind of have in mind for me, but yeah, I've loved this. Thank you. Over to you, Paige.

PJ Ellis (45:11)

I mean, yeah, mean, final reflection to me as well. I could go on all day. This has been a lovely conversation for a million reasons. I've got some takeaways that I'd like to share and then we come into your path for that pitch, mate. I know you've pitched already, but you are going to elevate a pitch, mate, to the world, right? Right, so these are my takeaways. Lock the doors. Employers are looking for positive mindsets and confidence. Take a look at your brand if you're starting out on your journey. When I say brand, know, where can you sit?

places that you're not sitting at the moment, that's the right way of saying it. And no just means not a yes, yet. I love that. The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion. I love that. We are the best in the world of being ourselves. I absolutely love that. That's a theme that's came out today that I don't think we've touched upon yet, that actually just be ourselves. It's hard enough at the best of times, isn't it? If you're to do that and be someone else, what a regret you'd have.

And path basically you need to go on to TikTok. That's the biggest takeaway I think, mate. Or become a marketeer, mate. Right, so listen, right, tell me, mate, what do you wanna do? Why should people give path an opportunity? Go for it, mate, the floor is yours.

Parth (46:05)

Okay.

But after it.

So I want to get into accounting and finance. I've done modules in international finance reporting which covers consolidating statements which is a good part of auditing. I'm on track to get a first. I'm very sporty, can socialise I'm not afraid to put myself out there. I've had experience in coaching which helps my...

develop emotional intelligence, adaptability, so like all these soft skills that you can incorporate into an audit team. Yeah, it's just more, I feel like I've got the skill sets to thrive in a company, especially with like being open and introducing myself to everyone and having the capability just to get out there. Not only that, just with, of course the modules and stuff has helped, but I think

It's more just to get an understanding of how different it is and how a job is compared to a module because you only learn a certain amount in a module whereas a job is like a whole different aspect of it. So it's just The interaction with clients that you can build on. So I think because of my confidence and stuff I think interacting with clients would probably be ideal for me. So I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah, and again, just happy to do Headifit to be fair.

PJ Ellis (47:31)

that that Parth you're hired ⁓ Emma. Listen, let's finish on you Emma. You do so much. You've got two young daughters as well. Let's take it back a bit just quickly. What would you recommend these young people do on the start of their journey?

Emma (47:33)

You

Andy Dawson (47:34)

Ha

Emma (47:49)

think it's kind of going back through everything we've covered really but I think the main things that I would say is believe in yourself because I think that's the biggest thing you've got to believe in yourself because you are amazing and you've got to believe in yourself so I think that's one thing I would definitely say as you start your journey pick something you love so pick the course you love

And I think it's that's so important. ⁓ If you're going to go to university, if you're going to go to college and if you pick something you love, you will do well because I did struggle at school, but as soon as I found marketing, I flew. I think it's like having, if you can find something you love, you find your icky guy. So what makes you tick?

what's good, what you love about work, about life, about what makes you happy. If you can find that all together and it'll just make you a happier person, getting that balance in life is so important. So I think if a young person going out there, believe in yourself and the world is your oyster.

Andy Dawson (48:53)

Awesome.

PJ Ellis (48:54)

of

that bit of icky guy. If you don't know what that is, Parth, you definitely need to, mate, it's wicked. And if there's nothing from you, mate, I'm gonna wrap up.

Andy Dawson (49:02)

Yeah, no, was awesome. Parth, Emma, thank you very much. Thank you for sharing all that. Thanks for sharing your journey Parth and Emma, those fantastic tips. And don't know we could find an event that's catered for this sort of stuff.

PJ Ellis (49:13)

He's definitely on the tease. to follow on that path, Emma. You've been a delight. Thank you so much. I wish you all the best in your future, Emma, keep doing what you do. I know you do brilliant things for our young people, but you know what? Employers, if you're listening, these young people are brilliant. Just give them the opportunity, You will not regret it. Anyway, cheers, Babs. Have a lovely day.

Andy Dawson (49:14)

Right.

Emma (49:17)

Thanks for having us.

Parth (49:17)

Thank you. Thank

you for watching.

Emma (49:31)

Thank you, bye!

Parth (49:31)

Thank you.