[00:00:00] The Missional Life - Dan: Welcome back to Mission Live Podcast. Today, we have Noel Thomas with us. Noel is the co founder and CEO of Darkwatch, a data driven company that's changing the fight against human trafficking through advanced technology. His new book, Dark Traffic, provides an eye opening look into this pervasive issue and how we can join the battle against it.

[00:00:17] The Missional Life - Dan: Noel, welcome to the show.

[00:00:18] Noel Thomas: Oh, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here. Glad to have you.

[00:00:24] The Missional Life - Dan: Hey, let's start with your journey. What inspired you to dedicate your career? The fighting human trafficking.

[00:00:31] Noel Thomas: Well, I often say that this passion started as a child. Our family is walking in this indoor market. And my sister is four years old.

[00:00:42] Noel Thomas: My dad gets distracted by this lady. And when he looks down, he sees that my sister is gone. So he trusts his instincts. I believe the, the Lord gave him these insights to run towards the exit of this building. When he gets to the exit of this building, my, A man that we didn't know was walking out the door with my sister.

[00:01:01] Noel Thomas: And so this left a huge impression on my soul. I later see it, you know, on the mission field and get exposed to it. But it was that first encounter that that I think really set the tone for me to, to be passionate about this particular issue.

[00:01:18] The Missional Life - Dan: Wow. It's so amazing where you can hear data, you can hear facts, you can hear figures, but it wouldn't, it becomes.

[00:01:26] The Missional Life - Dan: Personal to you. It puts a whole other fire in you and a whole other drive to work and so many times Our mission or what God wants us to do in our own lives comes from Situations like that not that he causes those things to happen But he does promise he'll work good from things If we're called according to purpose and as we're walking with him, he works those things for the good.

[00:01:47] The Missional Life - Dan: Wow, father of a daughter, a young daughter that wrecks my heart. And so, wow, amazing. So you said missions field and you got exposed to it more in the missions field. Tell us more about what you can about your experiences where and what was going on.

[00:02:04] Noel Thomas: So absolutely.

[00:02:05] Noel Thomas: I was playing in a Christian rock and roll band and I got linked up with operation mobilization and why way. They ended up taking these Christian rock bands that I was in to about 16 different countries. And so part of the ministry that we would do was a street ministry and evangelism, music ministry children's ministry.

[00:02:26] Noel Thomas: And it was while I was in a prayer session in Birmingham with operation mobilization that I get this flyer and it talks about the 50 million people that are enslaved around the world. And I had heard a lot about clean water issues or other justice issues, but I really hadn't heard much about human trafficking in 2006.

[00:02:49] Noel Thomas: And so I said, you know, I got to learn as much as I can about this, this issue and see how I could use music at the time as a platform for fighting it. So I go to India with a videographer and photographer, and we go to the brothels of New Delhi. And I see this This 14 year old girl that is kept behind these iron bars right above a police station.

[00:03:15] Noel Thomas: And it was in that moment, the quote by Edmund Burke or whoever said it, that all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing struck me. And I knew that my life was about to seriously change. And so. That was kind of the genesis of getting exposed to this issue and becoming very passionate and then of course, being receptive to the issue of human trafficking because of my personal experience with, with my sister.

[00:03:44] The Missional Life - Dan: Powerful. When you look those faces, , in the eye, I know even just my own journey, I was wanting to do more international business, kind of go that direction. I remember same place, India that children would come up to you and they'd hold up their hand and they'd have burned, burned fingers or cut off fingers and their parents would sometimes.

[00:04:02] The Missional Life - Dan: Do that to them so that they could have a life that would generate a little bit more, you know, income , from begging than they would if they just looked like other people. And so when you experience, when you look things in the eye face to face, it just often changes you in a way that you, you don't expect and you can't not do something.

[00:04:17] The Missional Life - Dan: And so tell us more about that journey from India to now starting a company that is. really doing some interesting things against this trafficking issue that God has put , that justice in your heart for.

[00:04:32] Noel Thomas: So it's an incredibly wild journey because at the time I was playing with band, I thought that music was going to be my life career.

[00:04:40] Noel Thomas: And so I graduated college early. I used my business skills to take the band on tour with, with OM and, and these, these other groups. And. And I really enjoyed that. And found a lot of identity in that. And, and what was really interesting is that God was preparing for that season to end. So it was in 2009 that, that was really our last tour and last professionally touring gig that I had as, as a musician.

[00:05:07] Noel Thomas: And in the process, Lord was warming up my heart to to start this nonprofit. And with a nonprofit, we started raising awareness in all of the United States about this issue of human trafficking. I remember one time we drove all the way to Seattle and a guy approached me and he said, well, thank you for driving all the way from Florida to Seattle to talk about parking tickets, but you didn't have to come all this way to talk about traffic violations.

[00:05:37] Noel Thomas: And that was the extent of. Of what, you know, a lot of the general public knew about trafficking was not very much. And and so we thought, you know, there's a lot of work that has to be, has to be done here. So from the nonprofit, I was tapped by the state of Florida to become the statewide. Anti trafficking coordinator.

[00:05:56] Noel Thomas: So my job was setting up safe houses and managing appropriations. And I got to, to live out maybe my Liam Neeson dream and go out on a raid with law enforcement. And it was on this raid that I noticed that they were manually searching on sites like Backpage and Craigslist to find. Sex trafficking and it was all manual.

[00:06:19] Noel Thomas: And I thought there's gotta be a better way to do this. So I had gone to school for entrepreneurship. And when I saw this, this opportunity of, of providing efficiency and automation to this process, to speed it up, that's when the idea started percolating of maybe we can create a company and a technology around that.

[00:06:39] Noel Thomas: And it's, you know, morphed into so many iterations beyond that, but that was in 2013, 2014 that I was starting to feel like, Hey, there's, there's something here to build. technology to, to make the fight more efficient.

[00:06:54] The Missional Life - Dan: Yeah. You said trafficking and not everybody is really familiar with that term, right?

[00:07:00] The Missional Life - Dan: This is a huge issue. And so there's some stats from your book. One of the stats, we came across with 150 billion in illegal profits Annually that's that's mind blowing.

[00:07:11] Noel Thomas: It really is and you know from the time that the book it was written people are already saying that it's now starting to get closer to 250 billion dollars It's the second largest illicit trade could become the largest illicit trade in the world. So it's second to drugs And what a lot of people don't realize is that this in addition to being an extreme human rights violation You Of these individuals freedom is that it also is a huge funding stream to cartels and terrorists and, and these groups that commit violence and mass and, and, and do these sorts of things.

[00:07:49] Noel Thomas: One of their main business arms is the exploitation of other human beings, you know, whether that's in the form of sex trafficking or, or labor trafficking, or even sometimes organ trafficking. And so I think that was one of the things that became very. eye opening to me was the breadth of sophistication and the depth of human trafficking in the global slave trade.

[00:08:15] Noel Thomas: And like many others, I thought that this was, you know, in some far away place. And the more that I dug into this issue, it's like, no, it's in our backyards. It's, it's a mile from our place of worship. It's a mile from our schools. And, and, and really, we all have this call to arms to, to do something about.

[00:08:35] Noel Thomas: When it is happening so close, but but also on on a global scale,

[00:08:40] The Missional Life - Dan: trafficking preys upon people of less fortunate situations, whether they're in poverty, whether they're just going through hard times or things. So can you just tell us, , as we talk about trafficking and just build upon that Start there at the beginning. Like , who do they prey upon and what are some of the schemes that get them involved?

[00:08:58] The Missional Life - Dan: I know sometimes they offer jobs. I know sometimes the family has debts and they often sell children into trafficking to settle debts. But can you just tell us , from the root, how does this play out? Get a start.

[00:09:11] Noel Thomas: Yeah. So I mean, the first part of this is that trafficking is a form of economics and it is extremely lucrative to criminal organizations to conduct in trafficking of persons.

[00:09:23] Noel Thomas: And so when there's a large enough market and demand for those services in sex and labor, it's going to create this, this market. So when they're sourcing victims of, of trafficking, they can use a variety of. You've got force where they, they physically, you know, kidnap and remove a person from maybe a village or an area and, and force them into this life of indentured servitude or or sex trafficking, or however, you want whatever permutation it, it takes.

[00:09:52] Noel Thomas: Other times it's more subtle and the traffickers will actually use techniques very similar to the Stockholm syndrome where the trafficking victim will form a love bond with their trafficker, which makes it almost impossible to pull them out of trafficking. And even when they're rescued, they'll oftentimes run back because of this love attachment that they have to the trafficker.

[00:10:17] Noel Thomas: And so that's one of the most insidious forms of it is that they're, they're appearing to be a love interest of, of the victim and and luring them in that way. Others, you know, in illicit massage or, or these other types of industries, they'll be brought in under student visas and promise a job where they're going to work as a, as a nail tech or, or go to school and and then get forced into illicit massage and this commercial sex industry where they don't have control of their passports.

[00:10:50] Noel Thomas: They don't speak the language. In several notable cases when they did these raids, these women were actually living in the illicit massage brothels, cooking over pots in, in the parking lot. And and that happens in America at such scale that there's something like Close to 19, 000 illicit massage brothels where it's a very similar story of labor trafficking into this form of commercial sex.

[00:11:19] Noel Thomas: And so overall, there's about 12 different types of of lures or tactics that the traffickers will use to lure an individual in. But once once they're in. It's either a love dependency or a drug dependency or psychological dependency. It makes it very hard to get the victims and survivors out of human trafficking.

[00:11:46] The Missional Life - Amanda: You know, as you were sharing about , what, , You rightly called this insidious, you know, love connection. , it just made me think of how, , the enemy, Satan, always makes a counterfeit for the real thing. And what a heartbreaking, absolutely horrific example of that. Where they're willing to do whatever they're told.

[00:12:11] The Missional Life - Amanda: And stay in this awful situation for this fake love that's really an exploitative act against them and who they are and their identity as a human being, , , you mentioned, you know, the market for it, , the supply and demand, what has caused the demand to go up so much in the last several decades?

[00:12:36] Noel Thomas: I think there's a lot of different factors and I think pornography is one of those factors that's a gateway driving this insatiable need for for more and it leads to you know, sometimes men going to these illicit massage brothels and maybe not even realizing that the person that they're receiving these services in secret are actually labor trafficked and not there by choice.

[00:13:01] Noel Thomas: And so there's a lot of education for those that maybe don't feel conviction over it of, of actually, is this, is this an ethical use of that, that service others. I think it's just pure greed. You know, it's, if, if certain items can be still produced at a lower cost and paying fair wages you'll see slave labor being used or bonded labor in, in a lot of parts of, of the world and, and so that's one of the pieces of, of the rise of it is, you know, is the cost of labor goes up and, and they can capture slaves or, or, you know, not pay them or pay them barely livable wages and and increase their bottom line.

[00:13:45] Noel Thomas: And so at the root of a lot of this, you see this, this element of greed you'll see power, you'll see these certain sexual deviations that are driving, driving this. I think the hard thing to fathom is that to create a 150 or 250 billion industry now, that's a lot of demand for slave labor and modern day slavery.

[00:14:14] Noel Thomas: And so I think that's the thing that, that becomes really eye opening is, is just the breadth and depth of, of this industry. And, and I think that we've got a lot of work to do not only what dark watch does on, on hitting the, the supply side in trying to follow the money and track this through to technology, but demand reduction in the public and, and as.

[00:14:40] Noel Thomas: You know, men particularly that we have to be responsible for the actions that we take and that we might be driving a whole industry related to slavery. And so those are a couple of ways in which I've been thinking about the man.

[00:14:57] The Missional Life - Dan: Your organization, Darkwatch, does use advanced data analysis and technology to begin to track these guys down.

[00:15:04] The Missional Life - Dan: And I'm thinking like in a movie, right? It always seems like the bad guys. They start off and they've got all the new weapons and they've got all the technology and they're ahead. And then, It seems like they're always one step ahead of the law.

[00:15:17] The Missional Life - Dan: They're one step ahead of the new legislation. They're one step ahead of the the police officer or whatever, but then like the second half and then all of a sudden like there's a new plan and there's new ways and that the the good guys innovate and then at the end of the movie, all the bad guys get caught and so of viewing this as a movie, right?

[00:15:33] The Missional Life - Dan: It seems like Obviously they've been doing something right to create a 250 billion dollar industry. , the bad guys have created a plan that's working. And yet now enter new ways of tracking that down and new ways of stopping different issues. Tell us how Dark watch began to have its genesis and then also how you began to integrate those new ways of using technology to stop or to put people on the hook or to Negate the industry from growing.

[00:16:04] Noel Thomas: Yeah, so, you know one of the first iterations of the tool was a tool that was automated that would grab illicit information online that traffickers were freely publishing that information. And so that was a huge leap forward where individuals were manually looking for this type of information to now have an automated capability that pulled all that data in and started the analysis process.

[00:16:30] Noel Thomas: And over time that's gotten, that's expanded to now where You know, we can show these human trafficking hot spots and where all this illicit activity is going. We can help banks identify who bad actors are. We're creating tools for collaboration between agencies and, and, you know, the, the innovation that we're bringing to the front lines is only a small piece of a broader movement.

[00:16:56] Noel Thomas: To bring this innovation to the front lines of fighting human trafficking. And so we've been blessed with with investors and they, they have a group called freedom fund and they've invested in all of these technologies to, to fight human trafficking, everything on the labor trafficking side to the education side of it, to empowering survivors of human trafficking, to get jobs.

[00:17:22] Noel Thomas: And so they're looking at this whole continuum of trafficking and And where they can port in innovation to, to fight this. And you know, they get a lot of insights and inspiration from William Wilberforce in the way that him and others of the time approach the fight against human trafficking by attacking the industries that supported.

[00:17:44] Noel Thomas: slavery at the time. And so I think it's really encouraging to see that there's other technologies that are starting to spring up in the last two or three years. And and I think that there's, there's room for a lot more technology and innovation in this, this particular space.

[00:18:01] The Missional Life - Dan: You mentioned William Wilberforce.

[00:18:03] The Missional Life - Dan: I can't say that correctly, but he's the person that shouted, shouted loudly and gathered people around. And you've had a platform as well. You've addressed the United Nations on the topic. And what was your message to them and, and what role do global organizations play in combating trafficking?

[00:18:21] Noel Thomas: You know, it was a pretty cool experience getting to speak at the United Nations. And we were talking about sports trafficking, which was a new category of trafficking that I wasn't previously aware of for then. And the idea is, is that there's these, these soccer stars that are pulled from West Africa and other parts of Africa and promise these these jobs and it ends up being a labor trafficking situation where some of them actually become mega stars and never get to realize the proceeds of their success and so that was pretty eye opening that this is a type of trafficking and the thought was in the United Nations is that We've been using for tools for collaboration, tracking, there's tools for verification, you know, perhaps we can help verify legitimate sports agents to weed out the ones that are involved in, in in labor trafficking or create some sort of Yelp like platform to to review.

[00:19:25] Noel Thomas: Sports agents. And so that was a couple of the ideas that came out of that session of how we can embrace technology. I think there's a lot. There's a lot more in sporting events in particular tend to be an attractor of both sex trafficking and labor trafficking, and there's a lot that can be done around these, these sporting events to to combat it.

[00:19:47] The Missional Life - Dan: We were astonished by some of the facts. I mean, we all watched the Olympics last year, and yet it's amazing how all the cameras can be turned on. the different athletes competing and a few blocks away can be a whole other situation, right? And so it's just amazing how these sports events that everybody celebrates, , but at the same time, man, there's a lot of dark things that happen.

[00:20:13] The Missional Life - Dan: So I'm curious, one of the stories, your book shares is operation Ohio knows. And so we're from Ohio and we're curious about this. , I know there's a lot of different operations that happen that sometimes the public just doesn't even see, or , isn't even aware that it's happening.

[00:20:31] The Missional Life - Dan: And yet here, there's a lot of individuals in this in this, this operation that were, that were arrested and or taken. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and maybe some maybe another operation that that you helped conduct?

[00:20:45] Noel Thomas: So yeah, that operation is very, very interesting, you know, and oftentimes these operations are collaboration between federal and local law enforcement.

[00:20:54] Noel Thomas: They're usually conducted over the period of, of a year or two years. Preparing for this. There's a lot of actionable intelligence that's gathered and they kind of like gear up for these two years for this one or two nights or maybe three nights where they just go and sweep all these traffickers or, or sex buyers.

[00:21:14] Noel Thomas: And so there's, there's several of these types of stings. And that one was one of the most successful in, in the country netting a lot of different, different rescues from that. There's been some great ones in, in Polk County, Florida. This happens. It seems like once a year where their sheriff will round up.

[00:21:34] Noel Thomas: all the sex buyers and traffickers in one night. And it usually is, you know, 250 or 300 people that are involved either supplying or purchasing it. And I think the, the thing that's, that's eyeopening about these things is that they're oftentimes notable people from our communities that they're.

[00:21:56] Noel Thomas: Unfortunately, sometimes pastors or doctors or lawyers or, or teachers or and so they've had kind of a wide range of, of individuals that have been wrapped up in these, these things. There's been some major ones internationally with we've talked a little bit about, you know, one of these major things that Interpol does in the book.

[00:22:17] Noel Thomas: But you think about the level of coordination where they'll have 20 different countries coming together and they'll, they'll wrap up maybe like 2000 traffickers in the course of, of a weekend globally. And so the, those are highly sophisticated responses to, to To trafficking and it's great to see that there's there's more of that.

[00:22:39] Noel Thomas: I think that as the issue comes more to light with Jeffrey Epstein and now the PDD case and and some of these these other mainstream movies about it and news articles. I think that we're going to see the general public start to say, Hey, no longer should we have human trafficking in our backyard and push their lawmakers and, and law enforcement to, to start doing more of these tactical sweeps in an area of of human trafficking.

[00:23:11] Noel Thomas: But that one in Ohio was, was great. And it's a model for a lot of other States that are looking to, you know, See how to coordinate we know some of the guys in in ohio and they're they're incredible and they really do care About this particular area of of fighting sex trafficking.

[00:23:31] The Missional Life - Dan: So in your new book obviously You share different stories and things but i'm just wondering as a person who's very connected very You know passionate about this topic Is there ever a day where you know, you kind of almost have to harden your heart You almost have to kind of just keep it at a distance but is there a situation that could share that Almost got past that protection and as a person who sees this on a daily basis But wow, this just took it to a different level could you share maybe not as detailed but just could you share a little bit about that?

[00:24:06] Noel Thomas: Yeah There is a a particular case, you know, so I have and, and really all forms of, of human trafficking, but there was a without going into, to all the gory details of it, essentially. a form of organ trafficking for primitive worship and and getting exposed to that, you realize that there is a real evil behind human trafficking.

[00:24:35] Noel Thomas: And I think that was one of the times that I was, I was extremely shocked. The other, the other thing that has been incredibly shocking and My wife and I are working very hard to, to combat this, but when my sister was nearly kidnapped as a child that was in a physical space, now a lot of the exploitation and real risk occurs in cyber and it occurs in the homes on devices, tablets, and video games are in, in game chat.

[00:25:05] Noel Thomas: And so I think what's shocked me is, is the rise of sextortion, which is this scheme of exploiters who will get. unsuspecting teens and individuals to share intimate photos of themselves. And when they do, the person on the other side is not a love interest. It's hardcore organized crime that's saying, Hey, give us, you know, 500 right now, wire it to me.

[00:25:31] Noel Thomas: Otherwise I'm going to share all these photos or hurt your family. And as a 13 or 14 year old child, that's wrapped up in this form of exploitation, there's a lot of shame. Surrounding it. And sometimes they even take their life because of the shame around this. And so my wife and I have made it our mission to help parents understand these risks, understand how in chat games and, and the different social media platforms that, that, you know, That children are using are a real risk and, and that there's ways to help combat and technology that can fight that and tools.

[00:26:09] Noel Thomas: And so that's been a project that has been grant funded and, and has been extremely helpful to communities to, to help them notice that. And it comes from being shocked at, at the level of exploitation that occurs for these unsuspecting children at

[00:26:27] The Missional Life - Amanda: such a vulnerable age to, you know, to. Have that connection happen, first of all, you know, unsuspecting, but , as parents, , we have two children ourselves, the oldest is 10 right now, but , it's like keeping that communication open is so important and making sure, , that parents are aware of what what their kids could potentially be running into, how to avoid it, how to, , completely obliterate it.

[00:26:57] The Missional Life - Amanda: I mean, we have very good friends who do not let their kids look at any other child's phone at all. Like they are not allowed to look at screens and it's, it's such a good thing to implement just for the safety and well being of our kids. And I was listening to a well known, a speaker, pastor lately, and they were sharing the statistic and making the case for how important it is that the word of God is just preached in churches and not simply watered down.

[00:27:28] The Missional Life - Amanda: And one of the stats that shocked me was that over 50 percent of guys , going back to what you said about pornography earlier in the conversation, over 50 percent of guys in church reportedly , consume on a regular basis, you know, whatever that means. But there was also a percentage, and I want to say it was 40 something percent that were not bothered by it.

[00:27:54] The Missional Life - Amanda: Like they did not have, you know, a poor conscious about that within the church itself. And, , you mentioned pastors, teachers, , how, how can churches address that with men? I know there's organizations out there that, , encourage men to, , stand against that addiction because that really, like you said, pornography is a huge industry that is funneling into this as well.

[00:28:20] The Missional Life - Amanda: So how can churches be mobilized to support men to? get out of those things and, , support healthy families. Like what can be done from what you have experienced?

[00:28:33] Noel Thomas: Yeah, I think that's so vital that the church talks about this issue. It's not something that you often hear from, from, from the pulpit.

[00:28:40] Noel Thomas: It's an uncomfortable conversation. I think partially because so much of the church is struggling with it. And I, I think that it's a great opportunity to, to show grace and help walk people in closer relationship to, to the Lord. I, I find this so powerful, you know, and I talk about this story in, in my book where I met a trafficker and he got radically saved and turned his house of, of prostitution into a recovery center for, for these addicts.

[00:29:13] Noel Thomas: And then later goes on to preach the gospel. And it's like, you know well, I think the technology is, is vital and an answer to human trafficking. I really think that. God changing the heart of men and women is is really what's gonna disrupt human trafficking at scale. And that starts with a conversation in our homes, in our churches and places of, of worship about this, this issue and our responsibility to it.

[00:29:44] Noel Thomas: But I think it is also an encouragement for a lot of people that are stuck in this addiction that they're, that they're not. Not alone. You know, there's others that are kind of walking this journey and when it exists in the dark it thrives. It needs the light to, to help bring freedom. And and there's something powerful when, when men and now women who are also struggling with this issue come together and say, Hey, you know I want to honor the Lord with, with my body and my time and that sort of thing.

[00:30:19] Noel Thomas: And. And walking this journey, journey together. So I hope to see that more because I think it's such a, a beautiful opportunity for God to, to restore the Imago Dei image that has been distorted by the enemy through pornography and through these deviations on, on sex. And, and I think that is one of the biggest hearts that we can learn from the word is that we are made in, in this world.

[00:30:47] Noel Thomas: in the image of God. And when we view ourself correctly in that identity and we view others it's a very powerful, powerful thing. So I really do hope to see more churches talking about this and addressing this particular issue. I

[00:31:03] The Missional Life - Dan: know your company, Darkwatch, has created some different tools that helps different, whether we want to call them indirect stakeholders or indirect participants whether they want to join them, want to join because it's just, it's good for them, or whatever.

[00:31:18] The Missional Life - Dan: It's, they don't want to risk being on the hook for something or being connected to that. Can you share a little bit more about some of those tools and some of the different indirect participants in this and how they're getting involved? And then also, , for the, for the average business owner, for the average church, is there a way to integrate some of Darkwatch's technology into their business practices and into their ministries?

[00:31:43] Noel Thomas: Absolutely. So there's 30 industries that inadvertently support human trafficking, everything from transportation to the finance industries, social media, food and beverage and agriculture, just to name a few of them. And a lot of them are unknowingly, some are knowingly supporting human trafficking and are direct facilitators.

[00:32:08] Noel Thomas: But removing those those companies out and and talking about a lot of legitimate banks and And airlines and that sort of thing. They don't necessarily Think okay. I'm Moving a sex trafficking victim from Southeast Asia to Miami, Florida. They're just thinking about going about their normal business.

[00:32:35] Noel Thomas: Well, there's been a lot of litigation around this JP Morgan was, was sued days in had paid out a lawsuit. Abercrombie and Fitch is under lawsuit. Salesforce. All of these companies have been placed under lawsuit, and part of the lawsuits, especially in the hospitality industry claim gross negligence.

[00:33:00] Noel Thomas: In some cases, these hotels that were actively involved in supporting sex trafficking, people would go on Yelp or Google and say, Hey, sex trafficking is occurring at this, this hotel branch. Someone needs to do something about it. And no one ever did anything about it. So the lawyers looked at that and said, Hey, this is gross, gross negligence.

[00:33:21] Noel Thomas: And so to your point, there are some. That like truly believe in fighting human trafficking. They want to generate goodwill with their business. They believe that business is a holy endeavor and that they have a platform that they can use. So that's, that's easy. We can, we can equip them. And for those that are trying to protect their reputational damage and not get sued we say that it often starts with.

[00:33:43] Noel Thomas: With training your workforce to one, know the signs of, of human trafficking, how to spot it. If you're in a bank, you know, what a human trafficking transaction could look like with a trafficker or these sort of things, or a hotel of what someone staying might be there. And business owners in particular have incredible.

[00:34:03] Noel Thomas: Power to help disrupt the modern day slave trade. Banks can cut off the flow of money. Hotels can make it hard for them to stay. Airlines can make it hard for them to travel and so forth across the 30 different industries. So I think that every business owner. On a basic level can take some training on both how to spot the signs of a victim of trafficking, but also the organized crime behind it.

[00:34:32] Noel Thomas: And, and that's what we, we really specialize in is we've worked with fortune 500s and training their staff on, on how to identify. Human trafficking and what it looks like from a very sophisticated angle. Not just how to spot the signs of a victim, but how to spot the signs of the crime. And then the churches it's, it's powerful for them.

[00:34:52] Noel Thomas: We do have a tool. It's a, it's a mapping product where we can overlay the churches and show, Hey, this is one mile from, from our church. 10 illicit massage brothels. And that's been a powerful tool to rally church communities to come together and be like, Hey, let's talk to our local town council. Let's talk to our law enforcement and let's start to, to come together to make waves and put a voice behind this not happening in our, our backyard.

[00:35:22] Noel Thomas: So the church can be a very, Powerful action tool. The last piece of this is that we've created a secure information sharing network across industries where they can go and talk very broadly about the types of trends that they're seeing with human trafficking. And these other crimes that product is coming out the end of this month.

[00:35:45] Noel Thomas: And we're very excited because general McChrystal says it takes a network to defeat a network. And if we're going to defeat these very sophisticated groups of human trafficking, we have to rally all these businesses, both local and fortune 100s coming together and saying, Hey, you know, are you seeing this?

[00:36:03] Noel Thomas: What tactics are you using to combat this? And then we can start to level up very quickly.

[00:36:10] The Missional Life - Dan: We talk about businesses and we talk about churches. What are some tactical things that individuals can do? Because as we become more aware of the issue, you know, we don't want them trying to Jason Bourne it, or Liam Neeson it, and go rescue themselves.

[00:36:22] The Missional Life - Dan: So To stop people from , going that far, what are some different things that people can do on an individual basis if they spot something I'm sure you cover some of this in your book, but what are some, things that they should be looking for or listening for?

[00:36:33] The Missional Life - Dan: And what are some natural responses or some next steps that they could do if, if this, then, then this?

[00:36:41] Noel Thomas: If they ever see human trafficking, they can report it to the FBI hotline and the FBI will, will action it. So that's a great, great place for them to start or local law enforcement. We say that the, probably one of the most powerful things that an individual can do is have a conversation have a conversation about.

[00:37:02] Noel Thomas: Internet safety with your, your kids and what it looks like, the dangers that they might face, and, and to create a safe environment for them that if they ever come across extortion or these other types of abuses online, that they feel that they're in a safe environment where they can freely talk about it.

[00:37:21] Noel Thomas: A lot of these kids that have taken their their lives because of this issue. because they haven't had a place where they could openly talk about this. And so in one of our trainings, we say, you know, the, the first response is often to be upset that your teen is sharing, you know, intimate photos of, of himself, but you almost have to pull it back and recognize that they they've been a victim of a crime at that point.

[00:37:49] Noel Thomas: And that you have to kind of switch into protector mode and protecting them to help them understand that so that conversation can happen within the home. And then I think the conversation needs to happen in our places of work, places of worship and our local county or city government. About this.

[00:38:10] Noel Thomas: And so a conversation is very, very powerful. And and we equip people to, to have these conversations in whatever setting that they're, they're looking to have. And, and I think that that's, that's a great way. It was a flyer that was handed to me when I was in the, the rock band. So I often say when I do this podcast or speaking engagement, I'm now passing.

[00:38:32] Noel Thomas: You, the flyer, you know, and, and what you do with that or what permutation that might take, you know, only God knows, but it is, it's amazing to see. I would have never guessed that in the time that I was touring the world and playing music, that this flyer would set the course of, of creating kind of breakthrough AI to fight human trafficking and all these, these technologies.

[00:38:55] Noel Thomas: And, and God has, A plan for all of our lives. Maybe despite what we think is our plan for it. God may have an even better plan than than we ever imagined.

[00:39:09] The Missional Life - Dan: Well, as we're wrapping up the conversation, , what do you hope that the reader most takes away? from dark traffic.

[00:39:18] Noel Thomas: I hope they, they take away that one person can make a difference. This is the path that, that God, I believe that God has placed me on. It's been a a fun adventure and exciting ones, but that, that God can really use the reader.

[00:39:36] Noel Thomas: Maybe in their domain of expertise in their, in their circle or in ministry even bringing someone to, to Christ that, that it could change the whole trajectory of a trafficker's heart or a sex purchaser's heart. And so I think being a willing vessel for the Lord to, to work through us is a powerful thing.

[00:39:59] Noel Thomas: And I hope that that's kind of the conclusion after reading the book that the reader takes away.

[00:40:05] The Missional Life - Dan: So good. So good. All right, , I want to ask you one other question here. , on a more of a fun note here, , if you could use any superheroes tech to fight trafficking, which one would you choose?

[00:40:20] Noel Thomas: And why?

[00:40:21] The Missional Life - Dan: I

[00:40:21] Noel Thomas: mean, you know, I really like the the idea of x ray vision for cargo containers. I mean, that would be, that would be a really interesting application of Super Tech to, to fight human trafficking .

[00:40:40] The Missional Life - Dan: Awesome. Great, great. So where can our listeners connect with you? Where can they get the book? How can they begin to follow you and become more informed on this really important topic?

[00:40:50] Noel Thomas: Yeah. So they can find me on LinkedIn, Noel Thomas, Instagram the handle Noel Thomas. They can find this book, dark traffic on Amazon as well as Barnes and Noble, or they could check out dark watch at www. darkwatch. io. To learn more about the work that dark watch is doing amen

[00:41:11] The Missional Life - Dan: listeners.

[00:41:12] The Missional Life - Dan: We'll have those in the show notes for you Noel, thank you so much for being on the show. What an amazing. Ministry that you have and business that you have and and rescuing people. It's it's I mean, it's just so It's such the heart of the father to go , after the loss, go after the one that was that was taken .

[00:41:27] The Missional Life - Dan: And, and so we just speak blessing and protection on you , and, and all those that are working with you. And we just, we just pray that you will have success in everything you put your hand to as you, as you go after evil in this world.

[00:41:42] The Missional Life - Dan: Thank you. . Amen.