Hey, everybody. Welcome to Orange Hatter. Today, you're listening to a conversation I had with Lisa. Lisa, welcome to the show. So excited to have you here. I spoke to your daughter. Ella, not too long ago. And she spoke so highly of you. I just had to have you come on the show. So welcome. Thank you so much for giving your time and sharing your story tonight.

Thank you, Tali Well Ella gets in trouble if she doesn't say nice things about her mother, so I'm glad that I've sufficiently scared her into singing my praises on your show. Good for her.

She did such a fabulous job. I introduced my daughter to her and I hope they will become long time friends. So we'll just jump right in if you don't mind, share a little bit about your background with our audience so they can have understanding of where you're coming from.

Yeah, well, thank you again for having me. So I I spend most of my time in the Bitcoin space at the intersection of two key areas. First being energy, because that is my background. A long, long time ago in another universe I traded natural gas and I worked for a lot of big companies Enron being one of them. And a couple of utilities, a couple of big producers, so I feel like I speak the energy language and I sit right in Houston. So, you know, energy capital of the world. Also, what I like to call the Bitcoin mining capital of the world, even though it may not be, and then the other thing that I have been working on lately is the financial services aspect. My first Bitcoin company was Unchained in Austin. Many people are familiar with Unchained. They help people secure generational wealth and hold their own private keys for Bitcoin. And then I was with a startup that was trying to buy a bank and offer financial services to Bitcoin companies. Unfortunately, our startup didn't get off the ground. So I am doing some consulting, but also probably announcing a next role in the coming week. So anyway, my interest sits firmly in the energy section and the banking section and, and helping people. Have conversations really on specifics of how Bitcoin mining can help improve efficiency and is a creative for energy companies. And if you like, I mean, I'm happy to give a couple of maybe real world examples to just paint the picture for folks as to what that really looks like, because sometimes you hear these words and, and you're like, okay, well, yeah, people say that it's good for. For energy companies, but I don't really understand why. So, all right, you're nodding. So I'll give you a couple of examples. So there in Texas, we our grid is the ERCOT grid. It's the electric reliability council of Texas and ERCOT manages the projects that are coming on and it is their mandate to provide reliable and efficient energy to all those that need it. So. As you can imagine, there's a lot of scramble to create power to put onto ERCOT, and there's an increasing push for renewables, it seems like everybody is ringing the bell for climate change and for wind and solar and, and I don't want to come off that I'm not pro Renewable energy. I just think that it is a little bit unfounded to think that we will affect change, you know, by 2030 or probably not even by 2050. I don't see it happening and really for a couple of reasons, but I'm going to give you an example of how Bitcoin mining can affect an energy company. And then I'm going to circle back and I'm going to give you an example of the alignment of incentives between energy companies and Bitcoin mining companies. So the example that I would give you is there's a relatively large power producer that's based in Texas. Although they have power plants throughout the United States, but they're, they're based in Texas and. Non zero percent of the time, and I, and I've heard the number estimated to be about 4 percent of the time this company pays ERCOT the grid. To take excess power. So this company is running natural gas power plants and and often they're combined cycle plants so they're using, you know, at least two different types of fuel to make a plant run. And it's more cost effective or it's more operationally efficient for them to keep running rather than shut a plant down. So they'd rather just pay ERCOT to manage the load and let ERCOT distribute you know, power as they are able, but, but this power producer pays someone to take power, right? So when you and I think about Apple, 0 percent of the time, they pay someone to take their iPhone. Right. Like 0 percent of the time McDonald's pays us to take a hamburger. It makes no sense for a huge entity that makes, you know, that is in the power generation business to pay the grid to take their power. And so, you know, it would be uniquely beneficial. And in fact, these guys are in discussions trying to make this work. They've put a team together to To investigate and go through the required process to, you know, spin up Bitcoin mining in order to absorb that power. So real world example, that's one real world example of, of where that's helpful. A lot of people talk about so this is example number two, a lot of people talk about flared gas and, and how Bitcoin helps mitigate flared gas. And yes, that's absolutely true. It's a fantastic benefit. However, there's also a lot of economic efficiency that can be gained in a field where you're not flaring. So I have a Bitcoin miner that's here in Texas. He goes by Amalgamated Sludge on Twitter, same as Dan. Dan has a property out in New Mexico where he's got about 40 wells and has the ability to direct that gas that's coming out of the ground into the Waja gathering system. Waja is a gathering system and a pipeline system that's out in New Mexico. At times that Waha gas because natural gas is priced by location. So it's, there's, I don't know how many pipelines. Typically when you're trading you're trading a specific region. So my first job I was trading in the Gulf Coast and then I moved to trade in the Northeast. And then I, at the end of my career, I managed the entire, you know, East Coast. So Gulf Coast assets. Okay. All the way up to, you know, kind of New England assets, but in Dan's case, Dan is selling into what at times is a depressed market. So what does depressed look like? Well, sometimes gas on Waha is negative, which means that the producer that has expended capital and energy and has site technicians. Who are pulling natural gas out of the ground. They're actually having to pay someone to take it away. Right. The other alternative would be to put it into some sort of a storage facility, but in Dan's case, he doesn't have that. Like many people don't have storage. So you're really a price taker. You're, you're at the mercy of whatever the market calls for. Now, at times, WAHA this, you know, in the last 12 months I think normally it's, it trades pretty on par with the Henry hub and Henry hub is the delivery point for natural gas futures. It's the largest pipeline it's it's like kind of the, the namesake, if you will, most people are familiar with it. Typically trades a little bit below or, 10 cents below 10 cents above the Henry hub, but when demand is high, it could trade dollars above Henry hub. Right. And in that case, Dan's really happy. Dan sells all the gas that he can make into Waha. But when demand on Waha is very low, why would you pay someone to take natural resources that you've spent money to get? Right? So what did Dan do? Dan coordinated some capital got creative and built a Bitcoin mining site, which he has completely bootstrapped himself. You know, he's got buildings and bought generators and bought Bitcoin mining machines. So now he has the option to economically dispatch. He can either send gas into the pipeline or he can mine Bitcoin. So I'll pause there in case you have a question.

I have a question for people who are not very familiar with the way energy is bought and sold. So for an everyday person, why would someone like Dan who has a need to dispose of his excess energy by paying somebody else, why would I care about that? So let's say I'm just a regular, middle class person, in my mind, energy companies have a lot of money. And so if they have to pay someone else to take away excess energy, why would I care that he is able to turn that energy into something useful like Bitcoin mining?

Well. Let me just start by saying you don't have to care, right? You don't have to care about that any more than you have to care about the dry cleaner that you have in your neighborhood having an increased price of supplies or you know, lower demand from their customers because of COVID. Right? You don't have to care about Dan and Dan's business. You don't need to care about the dry cleaner and the dry cleaners business. But, I guess where my interest truly lies is in In the support of free markets and markets are efficient. So markets optimize for supply and demand. And so you don't have to care, but you know, I don't know me myself. I'm really actually pretty excited when I drive down into kind of like the bowels of all the refineries and stuff that are South of Houston, because I feel like that's the heartbeat of America, right? There's fuel that's coming on shore. And that fuel provides me you know, safety and well being and health and there's a huge chunk of the population globally that lives in energy poverty and energy poverty is defined as access to less than four hours of energy a day, four hours of energy a day or less. Right? Like if you and I lived in a situation where we had access to power our lights, our toaster, our God forbid, our cell phone charger, like we'd be screaming, right? There'd be riots in the streets. And in fact, when, when there is massive power outages at times, there are riots. So we don't necessarily have to care about Dan. It does. support an ecosystem of wealth and prosperity and safety. And we don't even have to go into the whole, you know, where I think energy is key to our own national security. Sure. Energy production leads to our national security and how Bitcoin ties into that. Which I think is an entire, another rabbit hole, but You don't need to care about Dan, but I am sure that you and all of your listeners want to go turn your light switch on and have it work or plug your phone in and have your phone get juice or, you know, your kid wants to play their video game and they want it to work. You have, daughters that are in school. I have a daughter in school. She needs to be able to log on and do her homework or research a paper or, write code for a project. I mean, I don't know, like, we all have our reasons for wanting to use energy and that's a whole another rabbit hole of, like, who should get to decide what energy use is is worthy or not, like, Right, like, we live in America, free markets rule, we should all be in support of that.

Here's my very layman understanding of how it all works and the reason for that question I just threw at you which is that it's actually to everyone's benefit that energy isn't just flared into the air or having to be paid to process the excess because they're not doing it for free. You think it doesn't impact you, but it does because they're gonna get that money somewhere and it probably is coming from your bill. So my understanding is if they're able to more predictably sell or utilize the energy that they have acquired, then the savings is passed along to the customers, at least that's the way I understand it

right. Yeah, no, you're, you're, you're 100 percent right, and I think that's why I'm using Dan's name here because I feel like when we can identify people, right, it's not just this, like, nebulous topic. I mean, there is an individual who owns land that he has built buildings on and he employs people to work at so that natural resources can come out of the ground, go into a pipeline, which feed into a power generation facility, which feeds the grid so that Lisa and Tali can turn on their light switch. Right. And the more power that's feeding into those grids, the lower our prices are.

Yeah, it goes back to incentives for sure. So you came from energy trading and now you are full time in Bitcoin. So I'm very curious about that journey because you didn't find Bitcoin very long ago. Is that correct? Correct. It wasn't that long ago, and you are all in.

I am irresponsibly long involvement of Bitcoin. That is true. I... It's like eat, pray, love Bitcoin's all I do. Yeah, I got into Bitcoin in 2018. I had a massive change in my life and I had money in a managed fund with an investment manager and he had me in 26 different mutual funds. And I just remember getting my statement one day going like this isn't going to work for me anymore. Like, I don't feel like I'm getting any value here. This is a lot of work. I'm paying this guy 2 percent or whatever it was. Like, I can do better than this I think a little bit of it was like, okay, I can day trade my own account. I did get paid to day trade. I traded commodities, which I would argue are harder to trade than equities. So I'll manage my own money. So I started this journey of what do I want to invest in? Well, I knew I wanted to be long energy companies and I knew I wanted to be long technology companies. So this is like early 2018 at the outset you know, 2018, like you can really day trade Amazon back then, right? Like it would open at one price and go up and I would probably make, I don't know, two or 3, 000 in a 30 minute time frame. And then I would Not look at the market again all day and be like, okay, I made 2, 000 today. Yay. It didn't take me very long of doing that going. This is a lot of risk This is actually a lot of work. I'm creating a huge tax event every time I do this like this is not smart Right. It really, it really didn't take me that long to go. I'm a lot simpler of a person than wanting to manage a portfolio and study technology stocks all day. Like, this is not what I want to do with my life, but I knew I was really interested in technology. And I could see that there, you know, like everybody else, right. You could see that there was a shift coming. Like we were in the midst of a technological revolution. So I found a magazine. I don't know how I saw. I think I was in an airport. I stumbled upon it. The MIT tech review. I still take it today. I think it's a phenomenal publication and they published a list for many years in a row of the top technology companies of the year. So I, I built a very pedestrian spreadsheet to try to look for similarities and signal, you know, who are the seed round investors of these companies? What was the technology, right? It was like genomics, AI social media consumer related, you know, whatever, right? Like this started their list started, I think, in 2010. So I started looking at those companies and what really struck me as interesting was this word blockchain and I was like, oh, wait, if I buy blockchain, I am going to be financially set, right? Like, I'm going to invest in blockchain, blockchain is the future. Well, I cringe saying those words now because I mean, after 2018 to today, I realized that, you know, and I'm no technology expert, this is not financial advice, but if anybody tells me they're interested in blockchain, not Bitcoin, that's like saying I'm interested in copper wire, not electricity. Right? Like, you've missed it. You're totally wrong. But nevertheless, I kept Googling blockchain. How do I buy blockchain? And I came upon Bitcoin, started studying some and Ethereum and, you know, all the other sort of alt coins that we regard as just, I regard as just garbage now. But nevertheless, that was my journey. I started studying technology stocks, studying blockchain. Day trading all of the, you know, like 20 tokens, like a complete degen. And again, it like, didn't take me very long to go this is the biggest waste of my time. I don't want to sit on Twitter and watch the alerts for whatever token, like, this is just, something's not right in Denmark. I am going to stop. I'm not going to do this. And I just kept my Bitcoin. I sold everything else and I kept a little bit of Bitcoin. I didn't have a huge allocation at that time. I had most of my assets in Amazon and Apple and I don't know, probably like 10 or 15 energy companies from Kinder Morgan to Momentum, I mean, just a whole bunch of pipeline companies and kind of midstream companies. So anyway, so from, that's 2018. And I don't know, by about 2020, I just got further and further down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and I had moved from the East coast back to back to Houston. And I thought, well, I'll go back to work in the energy business. And, I just started talking with folks and having conversations and I was speaking with an oil and gas person one day who said. Yeah, you should really be a consultant for Bitcoin. You should explain Bitcoin to people. And he was actually really kidding. He wanted to date me and he didn't want to talk about Bitcoin. So he wanted me to go talk about Bitcoin with other people. So he was like, you know, you should go talk about this during the day. So we can talk about something else at night. And it was really funny and he was right. I should be talking about Bitcoin all the time. So I spun up a deck and I started telling people that I was a Bitcoin educator and that I could help them understand Bitcoin. And, that's how I got here. I got hired by a Bitcoin company. I went to work for Unchained. I went to the Texas Blockchain Council event. I met Parker Lewis. We had a couple of conversations and two weeks later, I was working at Unchained and I've been working, full time in Bitcoin ever since. And just to bring that all home, I mean, I work in Bitcoin because I think it's reachable, it's understandable, it's knowable. It's accessible to everyone. You don't need to have an MBA. You don't need to have graduated from college. You don't need to have any special skills or you know, you don't need to be an analyst of any type to understand that it is the most scarce asset on earth and scarcity drives value. And if you can really just understand that one concept. You can understand why Bitcoin over time will become the most valuable asset on earth and why it is such a vortex for value, right? It's like sucking value out of every other asset class. And the market cap of Bitcoin is growing, but what's most exciting to me is that the number of users on the network are growing. So, as Alex Gladstein has said in his piece, multiple pieces, it's not number go up technology. It's freedom go up technology.

So when you first came across Bitcoin, as part of your general interest in blockchain technology, when you're doing your research, what set it apart from the other so called shit coins now That made you really open your eyes and go wait this is the only one that I want to focus on

There's no marketing team and there's no CEO, right? It just is what it is. It's code. It's pure. There's no gimmicks. There's no sales team. There's nobody collecting 2 percent a year to manage your assets. Right. It just is what it is. It's the way to, own a more beautiful proper form of property than Malibu beachfront property or name, whatever you think is you know, it's like owning the Rocky Mountains. It's, it's like this majestic, pure, unpolluted asset, you know, no matter how many of us try to screw it up. Right. Like us, like the collective us of people creating products, I mean, I really am appreciative of BlackRock. I think that their leadership and stepping into the spaces is huge and will be huge for people touching this asset. And it's been a long road, the mainstream media has not been a friend to, to Bitcoin. Warren Buffett has not been a friend of Bitcoin. There've been a lot of negative narratives that have kept good people out of this asset class,

yeah there's definitely a lot of misunderstanding surrounding bitcoin and Now that Black Rock and other companies are proposing the ETFs. Can you explain? Since you're background is in finance what the difference is between the Bitcoin that you hold and an ETF for our audience?

So Bitcoin is a physical bearer asset. And what that means is that you can actually physically take possession of the asset and be in complete ownership of the asset without a third party. And as you know, and probably many people in your audience knows, but for those that don't private keys are the asset. Bitcoin lives on the blockchain. Bitcoin does not live in a hardware device or signing device. Right. It although people often think that those things are that is the asset and if you lose that, that signing device or that hardware device, right. It kind of looks like your key fob. I, I think it looks like my key fob and the way that I equate it to people is that so if I have my, my key to my car and I press the unlock button, it is transmitting a code to my car that allows My car to unlock. And when my key is inside my car, it allows my car to start. Right. So you would agree that that's a code inside that fob. If I lose that fob, have I lost my asset, my car? No, I can go down to the dealership and pay the dealership 350 or whatever ridiculous price it is to replace that key fob, but they will load the code into a new key fob for me, and I will drive down the road mad, but I will be driving down the road again in my car. So those hardware devices, those hardware, those signing devices. look like a key fob. And what they do is they, they hold your seed phrase or they hold your code so that when you use that and access Bitcoin, so let's say you're like an unchained client or a Casa client, you have a multi sig collaborative custody agreement. And you're signing a transaction, right? Like it's got the code in it. It makes it easy so that you don't have to punch in all the digits, but if you lose your hardware device, as long as you have the digits written down, you still own the asset. So in an ETF like that BlackRock and basically every other financial services firm in the world will eventually offer it is a wrapped form of Bitcoin. And what that means to you is that you may hold air quote Bitcoin in your retirement account or in your whatever account it is within Fidelity or BlackRock. But you don't hold those keys. Someone else holds those keys. You have essentially price exposure to the asset, but you don't actually own the asset. So, I'm delighted that BlackRock is doing it. I'm delighted that That other financial services firms are going to help people touch Bitcoin. I would just offer to folks that, you know, know the difference. It's fine, I guess, to own inside of BlackRock, but, you know, I, I think about Bitcoin, like part of the beauty of it is that if we dial back to kind of like 1943, when people are walking out of Germany and they're going into Poland, or they're going into like, they're escaping Germany. You can visualize what those people look like they're in their winter coats and their pockets and their clothes are just stuffed with gold and their candlesticks and all their silverware and everything of value is stuffed in their pockets, and they're crossing a border, but with Bitcoin, you need your 12 words. And you can cross a border and have a hundred percent of your wealth, right? Or a hundred percent of what you've got invested in Bitcoin, right? Like nobody can take it from you. And I mean, some people say that they memorize their 12 words and then they feel like, you know, they can cross any border without, you know, essentially they can cross without anything in their pockets at all and get to the next country, buy a phone, download a Bitcoin wallet and put the 12 words. And there's your net worth. Like it's kind of miraculous.

I love that visualization with the key fob. I've never heard that before. It's such a perfect analogy. It's so easy to visualize what it is. There's a lot of, I think, confusion with the chosen word to describe something like when they say hardware wallet, what is that? You know, but I love that. I love that imagery of the fob that really makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. So I, I was going through your LinkedIn to see about your posts and you said something about how you like to combine sailing and Bitcoin. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Oh, that was an article that was not mine that, but that was an article. I think it was in from Bitcoin magazine or something. I try to really be an advocate for folks that are writing and folks that are actively working in the space. So I like to share articles stuff that I find interesting and also just to keep, you know, I'm on LinkedIn because I want to reach people that aren't in our community. And I actually, I probably get, I don't know, 10 direct messages a day from people who say, I heard you on a podcast. I heard you on Tali's podcast. I heard you on whatever you said, you'd talk to me about Bitcoin or Bitcoin mining. Can we connect? And I absolutely love that because There are people in all sorts of industries who are trying to touch Bitcoin and they just, it's, it's not like I'm giving them a hand up, but like they need a way to touch Bitcoin. And so if I can be a tangible representation to somebody of like, here, let me point you in the right direction. You should go talk to these five people, or you should read this book, or you should like. I feel like that's what I'm here for, just to facilitate you know, just, I want to see the growth of this, of this industry. I feel like I work for Bitcoin. It fills me with purpose and joy, and it's a privilege to have each and every one of those conversations and really hear what other people's journeys are. I mean, it's really, it's exactly what you're doing right here. You're asking me what my journey is, and that's what I do every day when I talk to people that I've talked to strangers that I've met on LinkedIn.

Yeah, I really appreciate that you're on LinkedIn, because sometimes it feels a little bit on the Twitter space where it's almost like an echo chamber. We're just saying stuff to each other. So I really appreciate what you're doing on LinkedIn. I got excited when I saw that because and I was looking at it really because you do repost a lot of things and I was like, I just need to make sure that this actually hers because sometimes the repost word is really, really small. But I was so sure it was you. Sorry about that.

I, so I do sail. I spent a lot of my life sailing. Ella is an amazing sailor. She's sailed competitively. Her dad has sailed around the world. I mean, he's like off the charts, but Yeah. Unfortunately, right now I live in a concrete jungle in Houston and I just count my lucky stars that I get to talk about Bitcoin. Unfortunately, I'm not, not on a sailboat too much, but but I saw that article and I, I thought the graphic that the magazine included, especially with that article was, was great and eye catching. And it did garner a lot of comments. And again, I don't post for engagement. I post because I want people to come into this arena. I want them to bring their businesses and their thought leadership into Bitcoin so that we can push this further.

Yeah, that's what I love about talking to all these different women. They all have such different backgrounds. They come into this space with their own expertise and viewpoints. we're all different people and bitcoins for everybody. And so just to be able to hear how everyone is applying Bitcoin in their own lives is wonderful. For example, one mom said that's her saving vehicle for her kid's college fund. Another one is for her retirement, and then there are a couple of them just actively trying to orange pill the merchants in their city. And you know that they're taking it upon themselves. They have nothing to gain. They're just sharing good news. So this has been just really fabulous to witness. So the people who reach out to you on LinkedIn, have you seen any common trend or type of people or reason? When they come and contact you and talk about Bitcoin.

I would say regrettably it's mostly men, I wish that it was, I mean, I'm super happy to talk to men, but it's mostly men in the energy space that want to figure out how to get into the Bitcoin space, or they want. They're in the real estate space or they work for I actually get quite a few people from, from the big banks that reach out to me and they want to have a conversation. Yeah, I, I wish and I, you know what, actually, I think that's just a reflection of who's on LinkedIn. I think a lot of women aren't on LinkedIn or you know, I wasn't on LinkedIn until I started working in Bitcoin. I, not my entire life. Like I just didn't. Like wasn't within my realm and I feel maybe like I've, maybe like LinkedIn is a thing of the past, but then I keep using it and it's not, you know, like it's, it's a very active, vibrant space and I get asked to speak at I've spoken at universities, I'm involved with some symposiums restructuring groups. It's law firms, investment banking teams, and they're on LinkedIn. So I am happy to continue to publish content and links to stuff because the sooner more people adopt Bitcoin, just leads to a whole bunch of good outcomes for everybody around the world, right? It isn't number go up, it's, it's freedom go up. And it's getting out of the censorship circle that we're in, and it's getting out of the human trafficking circle that we're in, and it's getting out of this this, this complete doom that lurks over our cities. I mean, I was just in Austin for BitBlockBoom last weekend, and I mean, just, like, the number of people that were sleeping in the streets and strung out on drugs, like, that's because the money is bad. Right? It's it's the money is bad. Our money is broken. Our schools are broken. We need to shake up the extra sketch, forget everything that has become a socialized norm and go back to basics. Right. One ingredient food. I don't want to get off on a Bitcoin tangent, but like we eat garbage. We watch garbage. So our lives are garbage. And I think, at least for me, like getting into Bitcoin, it's like you really I don't know, you, you see how much better things can be and you're so hopeful. I mean, I, I used to really worry, Tali, honestly that I would be living under a bridge. I was like, okay, well, I, I have some money, but not a lot. And will it last for my lifetime? Because in my family, like people live to be in their mid nineties. And I just thought, I don't know how I'm going to have enough money to live into my mid nineties. And when you look at the statistics of an everyday person, like very little savings. You know, inflation is 14%. I mean, even though they say it's five or seven, it's probably 14, 20%. I mean, it's very, very high. If you just look at the cost of goods over the last 50 years, I mean, why does the price of goods of stuff go up? You know, like. Why? It goes up because of inflation, not because the hamburger got a whole lot better. So when you're in Bitcoin, I mean for me, I just, it's completely changed my mind on like, all right, I'm gonna choose health as a lifestyle, right? I'm gonna choose exercise as a lifestyle. I'm gonna choose eating well as a lifestyle because I want to be around, I want to see how society can transform itself into something better.

Yeah, I wanted to follow up and ask you how your life has changed outside of your career. After you came into the Bitcoin space like you said a lot of people are starting to look at literally their entire life differently because we realize how much money has Impacted all of our choices and the choices of people who are providing the goods and the services. So how has bitcoin impacted your life in, in what way have you changed?

I think I'm a very simple person. I joke that my ideal is to be a 1950s housewife. Like, I love to iron, I love to cook, I love to bake I drive a station wagon, I love driving a carpool. Like, when Ella's home, I love driving her around. I'm a very simple person and there's a lot of joy in a simple way of living. There's a lot of joy of not living connected to social media and, and not trying to, you know, what, here's how my life will change. I, I am more focused on health. I am more focused on what I eat. And my goal is to quit being so vain and maybe one day quit dying my hair. How's that? Like, I feel like Bitcoin is gonna give us all permission just to take a step back and go grow our own food and have chickens. And get back to real, the real, like why we're really here on earth. I believe that we're here on earth to help other people, right. To help one another. We're here for community. We know that community is the number one outcome of happiness in life is what your community looks like. It's like, why don't we focus on that? And that's the cool thing about Bitcoin is that it is this fantastic virtuous circle of people who are building community and are supportive of one another. And. You know, we're all probably gonna live to be a hundred and, we're gonna have food and shelter and the world's going to be a better place. So everybody needs to come and join along. Everybody needs to buy Bitcoin so that they have health and safety and prosperity in their old age, not financial crisis,

I love what you said about living a simple life. That's the way I see Bitcoin, which is, you were describing how you were day trading and you had to be watching the news and you have to be on your computer and you got to time the market and all that stuff. I mean, you're taking risks and you have the stress of doing it profitably or losing money. Like, to me, that seems very complicated. And I tell my kids as I tell it like a joke, but it's really not even a joke. When I was going to business school, I was watching Animal Planet. Everybody else was watching the Bloomberg and watching, you know, the price go up and down in the stock market. And I was just like, I want to look at zebras crossing the safari. So I love, I love how Bitcoin allows us to just store wealth without adding complications, and then you get to free up your mind and do other things. Like, cooking in the kitchen, and like you said, you know, planting a garden and raising new animals. Like, you know, not necessarily fun stuff for everybody, but just like simple stuff. If you want to be an artist, then you have a very straightforward way of storing value for yourself, wealth for the future, and you just focus on art, or, or anything else that you choose. It's almost to me, Bitcoin is like a simplifier for life.

big time. I mean, we so complicate our lives. I, I have friends and, and I used to be this person, right? Like you'd, you'd join a gym, you'd get your car washed. You're like, you have a housekeeper. Maybe you like, you just spend money all the time on stuff that, I mean, I look back now and I think, I mean, I'm not going to join a gym. Like I'm going to clean my own house. And that's. It's an incredible workout actually, and then I don't need any money to help me. And also I'm not paying the monthly fee for a gym. And I also love washing my car. I wash my car every Saturday because I love a clean car and I love not driving through somewhere and paying 35 for someone to wash my car when I should be washing it anyway because it's great exercise. So it's like re. Framing how you think about how you spend money is what Bitcoin has helped me do and I could definitely go get my car washed and I could definitely have you know, I mean, it's, it's not like I feel deprived. It's, it's a choice. I'm like, gosh, you know what, like, I need to be healthy when I'm 95 because I have Bitcoin and I'm going to have fun and I have all these friends and I have Ella and I have stuff I want to do and I want to travel and see 50 more countries and I got to be well to do that.

Yeah, for sure. Any last recommendation suggestions for women who are sitting on the fence about Bitcoin?

Well, they should go back and listen to every one of your podcasts. And if anybody wants to reach out to me, you're welcome to reach out on Twitter. You're welcome to reach out on LinkedIn. I, I, I will send you a, I hate this, but I'll send you a Calendly link. One of my friends set me up with Calendly. It actually is a game changer. I really do like it. Although I, I just hope people don't think it's tacky to like get a calendar link, but I'll send you a calendar link. We can book some time. I love doing that. It's the highlight of every single day and I don't know I wish people joy and prosperity and You know, like go do go do good things for others. It's it is the key to happiness

Awesome. Thank you so much, Lisa. Thanks for joining us today and learning with us today. If the discussion with our guests resonated with you and you would like to dive deeper into the world of Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club. The meetup link is in the show notes. Also, if there are women in your life whom you think would both enjoy and benefit from learning more about Bitcoin, please share Orange Hatter with them. Until next time, bye.