1 00:00:02,956 --> 00:00:07,066 eddie: episode 22 of the Web Joy Podcast, I'm your host, Eddie. 2 00:00:07,426 --> 00:00:11,296 In this podcast, we interview guests about their origin story and what 3 00:00:11,296 --> 00:00:15,136 makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community. 4 00:00:15,586 --> 00:00:17,266 I hope you enjoy today's episode. 5 00:00:17,536 --> 00:00:21,916 There's something really vulnerable about design with Lauren Chill coat. 6 00:00:23,631 --> 00:00:27,201 Thank you for joining us for another episode of Web Joy. 7 00:00:27,591 --> 00:00:31,341 I'm excited today to have Lauren with us. 8 00:00:31,341 --> 00:00:32,151 Lauren, say 9 00:00:32,151 --> 00:00:33,831 Lauren: hi to all of our friends. 10 00:00:33,981 --> 00:00:34,341 Yes. 11 00:00:34,341 --> 00:00:35,121 Hi, everyone. 12 00:00:35,211 --> 00:00:36,021 Excited to be here. 13 00:00:36,026 --> 00:00:36,591 Thanks for having me. 14 00:00:37,116 --> 00:00:41,076 eddie: So to start out, I always like to just talk about, Hey, who are 15 00:00:41,076 --> 00:00:43,236 you, what do you do, where you work? 16 00:00:43,296 --> 00:00:46,986 You know, just a, a brief introduction about yourself or as we have 17 00:00:46,986 --> 00:00:49,116 started to say your origin story. 18 00:00:50,286 --> 00:00:50,646 Lauren: Oh yeah. 19 00:00:50,916 --> 00:00:51,996 So my name's Lauren Choco. 20 00:00:52,296 --> 00:00:54,066 Um, I live in the Bay Area. 21 00:00:54,066 --> 00:00:56,286 I just moved here a little less than a year ago. 22 00:00:56,286 --> 00:01:00,516 I live in Alameda and I work for Web Flow as a product designer. 23 00:01:00,576 --> 00:01:01,776 Uh, also new to Web Flow. 24 00:01:01,776 --> 00:01:04,386 Just joined about a month ago, but very 25 00:01:04,386 --> 00:01:05,406 eddie: excited about. 26 00:01:05,991 --> 00:01:06,411 About that. 27 00:01:06,801 --> 00:01:07,521 Awesome. 28 00:01:07,521 --> 00:01:10,341 Yeah, we've got got someone who freshly moved. 29 00:01:10,341 --> 00:01:14,271 That's always exciting when you hear about people's transitions. 30 00:01:15,021 --> 00:01:15,651 . Lauren: Yeah. 31 00:01:15,651 --> 00:01:19,641 I lived in Brooklyn, New York for like 13 years and then spent a 32 00:01:19,646 --> 00:01:23,541 little time in Southern California and now I'm up in the, the Bay Area. 33 00:01:23,541 --> 00:01:26,121 So yeah, East coast to west coast. 34 00:01:26,121 --> 00:01:26,931 But it's been good. 35 00:01:27,201 --> 00:01:31,221 Uh, lots of sunshine, perfect weather, and there's just fruit growing everywhere. 36 00:01:31,521 --> 00:01:32,781 Like all of the neighbor, there's just. 37 00:01:32,886 --> 00:01:35,976 Plums dripping from the sky, like passion fruit. 38 00:01:36,036 --> 00:01:36,726 I'm just like, What? 39 00:01:37,266 --> 00:01:37,656 What is this? 40 00:01:37,661 --> 00:01:38,826 Glorious bounty. 41 00:01:39,996 --> 00:01:44,556 did not have that in New York, so I'm still like dazzled by 42 00:01:44,556 --> 00:01:44,826 eddie: it. 43 00:01:45,336 --> 00:01:45,486 Nice. 44 00:01:45,491 --> 00:01:50,226 So you, you were just in New York before, like when you moved to California, That 45 00:01:50,226 --> 00:01:54,846 was for your current job, so you're also freshly landed in California? 46 00:01:55,026 --> 00:01:55,476 Yeah, 47 00:01:55,476 --> 00:01:56,706 Lauren: it was for my partner's job. 48 00:01:56,706 --> 00:02:01,176 So I've been working remotely since early 2019 and we were. 49 00:02:01,846 --> 00:02:04,906 Felt like we were ready to try something new, but I was like, I can go 50 00:02:04,906 --> 00:02:06,856 anywhere, so this, this is all on you. 51 00:02:06,886 --> 00:02:10,216 Um, and so he found a job that brought us to Southern California. 52 00:02:10,456 --> 00:02:14,926 It was sort of at the, the early sort of pandemic days and so we weren't 53 00:02:14,931 --> 00:02:17,086 able to like fly out and visit. 54 00:02:17,086 --> 00:02:19,666 We were just kind of like, I guess yeah, leap of faith. 55 00:02:19,666 --> 00:02:20,476 We we're doing it. 56 00:02:20,536 --> 00:02:24,766 Uh, so drove across the country and that was at a time when like everything 57 00:02:24,766 --> 00:02:28,096 was closed, like rest stops were closed, national parks were closed. 58 00:02:28,336 --> 00:02:30,946 And so I had always imagined like, Oh, this epic. 59 00:02:31,241 --> 00:02:34,841 Cross country road trip, seeing friends, stopping to see like, you know, the 60 00:02:34,841 --> 00:02:39,611 world's largest mailbox or all those weird things and everything was closed. 61 00:02:39,611 --> 00:02:43,541 It was just like from point A to point B as fast as we could get there. 62 00:02:43,571 --> 00:02:45,491 But, um, happy to be here now. 63 00:02:45,551 --> 00:02:46,271 So it worked 64 00:02:46,271 --> 00:02:46,421 eddie: out. 65 00:02:46,806 --> 00:02:52,086 It definitely is, is weird to be moving cross country and making 66 00:02:52,086 --> 00:02:55,866 those plans during the time with everything shut down and like you 67 00:02:55,871 --> 00:02:57,876 can't fly out there to see things and 68 00:02:57,876 --> 00:02:58,206 Lauren: stuff. 69 00:02:58,336 --> 00:02:59,226 Yeah, yeah. 70 00:02:59,406 --> 00:03:05,201 I've now signed two leases, both with just like, you know, Bad FaceTime connection 71 00:03:05,801 --> 00:03:10,271 walkthroughs, and it's like, well, I mean it, I think it checks enough of the boxes. 72 00:03:10,271 --> 00:03:14,411 But then now having had two experiences, like driving up to a 73 00:03:14,411 --> 00:03:17,471 place I've never been before and being like, Well, I live here now. 74 00:03:17,501 --> 00:03:19,451 So , cool. 75 00:03:20,681 --> 00:03:22,511 . So it's been an adventure for sure. 76 00:03:22,781 --> 00:03:26,721 eddie: So ultimately, Did the places meet your expectations, right? 77 00:03:26,721 --> 00:03:29,121 Or were you like sorely surprised when you moved in? 78 00:03:29,121 --> 00:03:31,221 You're like, This is not what I signed up for. 79 00:03:32,841 --> 00:03:35,541 . Lauren: Um, well, yeah, I, it's been great. 80 00:03:35,541 --> 00:03:38,751 I think the year that I spent in Ventura, California, which is in 81 00:03:38,756 --> 00:03:42,651 southern California, just north of la that was sort of like in the real 82 00:03:42,861 --> 00:03:45,951 thick of the pandemic, and I think it's, it's really hard to judge a. 83 00:03:46,631 --> 00:03:51,341 In the middle of a pandemic, but yeah, um, I did, I had a hot tub, had an 84 00:03:51,341 --> 00:03:54,131 avocado tree, lemon tree, peach tree. 85 00:03:54,461 --> 00:03:57,191 Again, the bounty , I, it blew my mind. 86 00:03:57,191 --> 00:04:00,491 So, you know, it was a weird time there. 87 00:04:00,521 --> 00:04:02,981 I don't know anyone there still, cause it's hard to meet people during 88 00:04:02,981 --> 00:04:08,501 a pandemic, but I had a freaking avocado tree, so , you can't complain. 89 00:04:08,501 --> 00:04:11,591 Yeah, yeah, it was, I lucked out for sure. 90 00:04:11,681 --> 00:04:11,951 Yeah. 91 00:04:12,971 --> 00:04:13,511 eddie: well. 92 00:04:14,121 --> 00:04:16,311 The kind of journey been like for you? 93 00:04:16,341 --> 00:04:18,951 Where did you start out in tech? 94 00:04:19,341 --> 00:04:23,001 You know, what were kind of some of the highlights along your journey on 95 00:04:23,006 --> 00:04:24,891 your way to now being at Web Flow? 96 00:04:25,401 --> 00:04:25,911 Yeah. 97 00:04:25,916 --> 00:04:30,141 Lauren: I have a bit of a winding story, which I think is pretty common, but I 98 00:04:30,141 --> 00:04:35,241 actually went to school for fashion design and while I was in school, I kind of knew 99 00:04:35,241 --> 00:04:37,071 that it wasn't what I really wanted to. 100 00:04:37,756 --> 00:04:40,756 But I didn't know what else to do instead, and my family would not 101 00:04:40,756 --> 00:04:43,606 have been okay with me, just like taking time off to figure it out. 102 00:04:44,146 --> 00:04:47,566 . So I graduated and I was just like, I knew I was moving to New York for some reason. 103 00:04:47,566 --> 00:04:48,526 I was like, New York, is it? 104 00:04:48,526 --> 00:04:49,306 That's where I'm going. 105 00:04:49,666 --> 00:04:51,946 And I was like, I'm just gonna get a job and, and figure it out. 106 00:04:51,946 --> 00:04:56,116 So I got a job and uh, was basically working in production at an 107 00:04:56,116 --> 00:05:01,216 apparel company and I was working close by to a graphic design. 108 00:05:01,961 --> 00:05:04,151 And I started becoming more interested in what they were doing. 109 00:05:04,151 --> 00:05:07,361 So I started teaching myself graphic design, practicing, 110 00:05:07,391 --> 00:05:08,741 you know, using Illustrator. 111 00:05:08,951 --> 00:05:12,341 Eventually they needed a new graphic designer and I pitched myself and I 112 00:05:12,341 --> 00:05:14,091 was like, Here's what I've been doing. 113 00:05:14,091 --> 00:05:16,671 Here's what I know, here's what I don't know, but like, 114 00:05:16,731 --> 00:05:17,901 I'm really hungry for this. 115 00:05:17,901 --> 00:05:19,131 I would love to join you. 116 00:05:19,491 --> 00:05:20,241 And they picked me. 117 00:05:20,391 --> 00:05:22,401 So I did that for a while. 118 00:05:22,641 --> 00:05:26,571 I was actually designing underwear mostly, so lots of like graphics and prints 119 00:05:26,571 --> 00:05:32,001 for like teenage girls, underwear, , or like sleep shirts and sleep pants. 120 00:05:32,006 --> 00:05:36,831 So it was a lot of like glitter and smiley faces and you know, rainbows and stuff. 121 00:05:36,831 --> 00:05:38,391 But, so it was really fun. 122 00:05:38,876 --> 00:05:43,016 But I kind of grew tired of just really long feedback loops. 123 00:05:43,016 --> 00:05:46,016 I was designing a year ahead of time, you know, designing artwork, 124 00:05:46,196 --> 00:05:50,156 creating tech specs, sending them to the factories, getting samples back. 125 00:05:50,156 --> 00:05:53,516 Like it was just this really long cycle and I would sort of never 126 00:05:53,516 --> 00:05:57,116 hear any real feedback about like how something performed. 127 00:05:57,116 --> 00:06:00,476 And so it was always just a stab in the dark basically every time. 128 00:06:00,536 --> 00:06:04,616 And I started becoming more interested in product and tech and 129 00:06:04,616 --> 00:06:06,116 I started teaching myself to code. 130 00:06:06,771 --> 00:06:11,871 And like building websites was, to me, it was like, this feels like a living thing. 131 00:06:11,901 --> 00:06:15,051 Like I can just push this code and it's up, you know? 132 00:06:15,056 --> 00:06:16,671 And like I can tinker all day. 133 00:06:16,881 --> 00:06:21,261 Whereas the apparel that I was working on, it was like a year lead time. 134 00:06:22,116 --> 00:06:27,066 So I ended up taking some classes because I just found myself in so many dead ends. 135 00:06:27,071 --> 00:06:30,966 I'm like, Stack overflow, just trying to figure out, And I was like, I just need 136 00:06:31,086 --> 00:06:34,416 people to ask questions too, because I'm just like, I just, sometimes you 137 00:06:34,416 --> 00:06:38,376 just don't know the right question to ask, and I just needed to like explain 138 00:06:38,376 --> 00:06:39,846 what I was trying to do to someone. 139 00:06:39,846 --> 00:06:45,186 So anyways, I took some classes and then at this point started trying to get 140 00:06:45,186 --> 00:06:47,016 my foot in the door in the tech world. 141 00:06:47,016 --> 00:06:49,746 And there were lots of ups and downs with that, but eventually, 142 00:06:50,031 --> 00:06:52,401 I convinced someone to hire me. 143 00:06:52,641 --> 00:06:56,541 I had done a bit of freelance work and when I was interviewing 144 00:06:56,541 --> 00:06:59,661 with them, you know, we did the sort of, Show me your work. 145 00:06:59,666 --> 00:07:02,181 You know, tell me about this, tell me why this is good. 146 00:07:02,421 --> 00:07:05,466 And I actually took the opposite approach and I said, well, Actually, 147 00:07:05,736 --> 00:07:07,356 I don't think this is great anymore. 148 00:07:07,386 --> 00:07:09,366 Here's what I would do differently now. 149 00:07:09,726 --> 00:07:14,106 I basically critiqued my own work and it was a really small startup. 150 00:07:14,106 --> 00:07:17,946 I think it was like the 10th or 11th person in the office, and they just wanted 151 00:07:17,946 --> 00:07:19,416 someone who could kind of do everything. 152 00:07:19,416 --> 00:07:22,656 So I was like, I do front end, I do design. 153 00:07:22,656 --> 00:07:23,976 I'm hungry for everything. 154 00:07:24,246 --> 00:07:25,806 And that's what got my foot in the door. 155 00:07:26,106 --> 00:07:29,526 And then eventually decided to focus on design is what 156 00:07:29,526 --> 00:07:31,026 felt like a better fit for me. 157 00:07:31,416 --> 00:07:33,966 And so I don't really do much coding. 158 00:07:34,546 --> 00:07:38,536 These days, but I think having, having a bit of background there, 159 00:07:38,536 --> 00:07:43,096 understanding about how Code works has definitely been helpful in my career. 160 00:07:43,216 --> 00:07:45,076 So yeah, now I'm at Web Flow. 161 00:07:45,636 --> 00:07:49,236 Helps more people create for the web because though the experience 162 00:07:49,236 --> 00:07:52,656 I had learning how to, how to build for the web was super valuable. 163 00:07:52,806 --> 00:07:58,476 It was a lot of time and effort and money and I think it's exciting to sort 164 00:07:58,476 --> 00:08:02,796 of give more people the opportunity to do that with maybe, yeah, having 165 00:08:02,801 --> 00:08:05,016 to use less, less resources maybe to. 166 00:08:05,406 --> 00:08:07,386 To experiment and to contribute 167 00:08:07,566 --> 00:08:08,046 eddie: to the web. 168 00:08:08,376 --> 00:08:09,426 No, I love that. 169 00:08:09,486 --> 00:08:09,966 Right. 170 00:08:10,176 --> 00:08:12,996 It kind of feels like the web in some ways. 171 00:08:13,386 --> 00:08:15,306 People can like, Oh, they can create. 172 00:08:15,966 --> 00:08:20,856 Facebook pages or groups or whatever, or like they have to outsource to someone 173 00:08:20,856 --> 00:08:24,276 else to control their online presence. 174 00:08:24,306 --> 00:08:28,716 And instead things like web flow actually allow them to say, Hey, 175 00:08:28,716 --> 00:08:32,736 I'm gonna take ownership of how I present myself on the internet. 176 00:08:32,796 --> 00:08:36,966 And like those things are really helpful in breaking down those barriers. 177 00:08:37,336 --> 00:08:41,416 Lauren: Yeah, and it's super exciting, I think to, you know, build a set of tools 178 00:08:41,416 --> 00:08:45,496 and then see all the ways that people use that to, to build something in an 179 00:08:45,496 --> 00:08:51,376 unexpected way and just all their creative ways people will use the tools at hand. 180 00:08:51,616 --> 00:08:57,826 So it feels like exponential, you know, creativity, sort of like, there's a set 181 00:08:57,826 --> 00:09:01,666 of things you can do with this tool, but the, the ways that people will combine 182 00:09:01,666 --> 00:09:03,436 those things is sort of like infinite. 183 00:09:03,436 --> 00:09:04,936 And then it's exciting to see. 184 00:09:05,676 --> 00:09:05,946 Yeah. 185 00:09:05,946 --> 00:09:07,056 So I'm really excited about it. 186 00:09:07,596 --> 00:09:09,876 eddie: Well, so you've had quite a journey, right? 187 00:09:09,876 --> 00:09:11,886 Doing design work. 188 00:09:12,306 --> 00:09:15,456 What kind of keeps you excited and interested in 189 00:09:15,456 --> 00:09:17,976 working as a product designer? 190 00:09:17,976 --> 00:09:21,666 I know you've talked a lot about culture and different things like that. 191 00:09:21,996 --> 00:09:23,406 What kind of stirs you up? 192 00:09:24,156 --> 00:09:24,666 Lauren: Yeah. 193 00:09:24,666 --> 00:09:28,806 I think for me the, the puzzle of product design is what keeps me excited. 194 00:09:29,661 --> 00:09:32,721 There's just so many different pieces that go into it, but I think what's 195 00:09:32,721 --> 00:09:39,501 really energizing me now is connecting to and working with other designers. 196 00:09:39,741 --> 00:09:43,251 I really like seeing the way that people think about things 197 00:09:43,281 --> 00:09:44,901 and tease apart problems. 198 00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:48,911 It's just fascinating to me to see how other people's minds work. 199 00:09:48,911 --> 00:09:53,621 And so whether that's just observing how other people are, are doing their work 200 00:09:53,621 --> 00:09:58,121 or getting feedback on my own work, I'm really excited, especially at Web Flow 201 00:09:58,121 --> 00:10:01,181 right now, there's, this is the largest design team I've ever been on, so the 202 00:10:01,181 --> 00:10:06,191 opportunities to collaborate and learn from other people are really great. 203 00:10:06,491 --> 00:10:09,971 And yeah, but I think another thing that I'm really excited about is, 204 00:10:10,821 --> 00:10:15,231 Intentionally building safe spaces for designers to collaborate. 205 00:10:15,681 --> 00:10:18,631 Cause I think there's something really vulnerable about design. 206 00:10:18,631 --> 00:10:21,876 So, Not everyone can look at a piece of code and say like, 207 00:10:21,906 --> 00:10:23,286 That's good or that's not good. 208 00:10:23,346 --> 00:10:26,526 But everyone can look at design and have an opinion on it, 209 00:10:26,586 --> 00:10:27,606 and that's not a bad thing. 210 00:10:27,606 --> 00:10:31,926 Feedback is great, but it means that we're open to a lot of feedback. 211 00:10:32,286 --> 00:10:37,206 And oftentimes like the lifeblood of a design team is a design critique. 212 00:10:37,416 --> 00:10:39,246 And so like even just the name like. 213 00:10:39,581 --> 00:10:40,871 You know, language is powerful. 214 00:10:41,231 --> 00:10:44,801 Language shapes our experience, and so like, who wants to sign up for being 215 00:10:45,231 --> 00:10:50,261 critiqued, , You know, like getting feedback is great, but like, wow, you 216 00:10:50,261 --> 00:10:52,361 know, it's, it can be really intimidating. 217 00:10:53,181 --> 00:10:56,961 So I've enjoyed at a couple different companies now sort of thinking about 218 00:10:56,961 --> 00:11:01,581 like, how do we as designers collaborate and how can we make these spaces like 219 00:11:01,821 --> 00:11:08,271 really inviting safe spaces for people to contribute and ask questions and 220 00:11:08,271 --> 00:11:13,311 to learn from each other as well as like, Just thinking about different 221 00:11:13,311 --> 00:11:17,631 personalities, like some people are really extroverted and really chatty 222 00:11:17,691 --> 00:11:21,801 and are super comfortable, you know, thinking out loud or thinking on the spot. 223 00:11:22,101 --> 00:11:25,371 And then there are other people like myself who I kind of need 224 00:11:25,371 --> 00:11:26,841 a couple minutes to digest. 225 00:11:27,216 --> 00:11:32,106 And think about it and you know, how do you make room for both types of 226 00:11:32,106 --> 00:11:34,356 people or, or anyone on that spectrum. 227 00:11:34,806 --> 00:11:37,866 And so thinking about ways that we can make sure that the comfortable, 228 00:11:38,226 --> 00:11:40,566 extroverted people aren't sucking all of the air out of the room 229 00:11:40,571 --> 00:11:44,526 and the quieter people can have a chance to contribute as well. 230 00:11:44,916 --> 00:11:48,067 And I think in a remote context, it's just really interesting to 231 00:11:48,072 --> 00:11:50,496 think about how we can can do that. 232 00:11:50,496 --> 00:11:52,506 So that's something that I've been. 233 00:11:52,751 --> 00:11:55,961 Enjoying sort of exploring and also just seeing how other 234 00:11:55,961 --> 00:11:57,371 people are approaching that too. 235 00:11:57,461 --> 00:11:57,671 That's 236 00:11:57,671 --> 00:12:01,361 eddie: awesome because I think one of the challenges with so 237 00:12:01,361 --> 00:12:05,921 many things going remote is that a lot of companies and people have 238 00:12:05,921 --> 00:12:07,931 just tried to do the same thing. 239 00:12:08,231 --> 00:12:12,161 On a Zoom call that they would do in person, in a single room, 240 00:12:12,371 --> 00:12:16,691 rather than say, Okay, if we had never done this before, right? 241 00:12:16,841 --> 00:12:21,581 How would we start today knowing that we are not in the same room? 242 00:12:21,581 --> 00:12:23,681 And I feel like not many people kind of. 243 00:12:24,056 --> 00:12:26,636 Pause and, and think about that, right? 244 00:12:26,636 --> 00:12:28,316 Much less implement any of it. 245 00:12:28,886 --> 00:12:31,226 Lauren: So two jobs ago I was at a company called Buffer. 246 00:12:31,556 --> 00:12:34,706 And Buffer has been remote from the beginning, so I think it, the 247 00:12:34,711 --> 00:12:36,416 company's like 11 years old now. 248 00:12:36,746 --> 00:12:40,916 And I definitely feel very lucky that I had that experience because, 249 00:12:41,006 --> 00:12:43,526 you know, once the pandemic hit, I wasn't pushed into remote. 250 00:12:43,556 --> 00:12:48,656 That was just standard and there was a real culture of experimentation. 251 00:12:48,956 --> 00:12:52,376 So everyone was free to raise their hand, ask questions. 252 00:12:53,341 --> 00:12:56,521 Maybe let's experiment with doing this a slightly different way, 253 00:12:56,521 --> 00:12:59,401 You know, and everyone culturally is just very open to that. 254 00:12:59,761 --> 00:13:04,591 And so that was sort of the first place that I, I was able to kind of say, Hey, 255 00:13:04,591 --> 00:13:07,861 like we were doing these critiques, we were doing them synchronously over Zoom, 256 00:13:08,161 --> 00:13:12,601 and then we also had a completely async sort of paper document that we used. 257 00:13:12,901 --> 00:13:15,481 But something we started experimenting with was sort of 258 00:13:15,481 --> 00:13:18,301 like a, a hybrid of that, where. 259 00:13:18,966 --> 00:13:23,856 Someone would present design work, but then we would all kind of go quiet. 260 00:13:23,856 --> 00:13:28,776 We would set a timer for 10 minutes and in Figma, uh, or fig jam, once fig 261 00:13:28,781 --> 00:13:34,116 jam is available, just kind of take 10 minutes to gather our thoughts, you 262 00:13:34,116 --> 00:13:37,656 know, be thoughtful about our feedback, and just leave stickies or screenshots 263 00:13:37,656 --> 00:13:42,426 or stickers or whatever, whatever was helpful to communicate our thoughts. 264 00:13:42,426 --> 00:13:47,826 And then after the timer was up, come back on and discuss and that that helped. 265 00:13:48,626 --> 00:13:52,136 Space for the people like me who need a minute to just think a little 266 00:13:52,136 --> 00:13:56,636 bit to, to have the time to do that, or people who are less comfortable 267 00:13:56,641 --> 00:13:59,486 speaking up on a call, you know, they're still contributing, They 268 00:13:59,486 --> 00:14:00,686 can still leave their thoughts. 269 00:14:00,956 --> 00:14:05,636 But yeah, that, uh, that sort of hybrid format was interesting, uh, giving us. 270 00:14:05,961 --> 00:14:09,351 Sort of synchronous and sort of like asynchronous or just heads down 271 00:14:09,351 --> 00:14:13,311 time for giving feedback on each other's work, which is really fun. 272 00:14:13,611 --> 00:14:18,861 eddie: I really love that because I like, you need time to gather my thoughts. 273 00:14:18,861 --> 00:14:21,501 Sometimes, you know, if I'm in a meeting. 274 00:14:22,031 --> 00:14:25,391 Say 30 minutes long and you know, are trying to give feedback. 275 00:14:25,451 --> 00:14:32,171 I will suddenly realize all the feedback I should give at 39.5 minutes into the 276 00:14:32,171 --> 00:14:35,441 meeting, which is, you know, like four and a half minutes after it's done. 277 00:14:36,851 --> 00:14:37,301 , Lauren: right? 278 00:14:37,301 --> 00:14:37,721 Yeah. 279 00:14:37,891 --> 00:14:39,481 I definitely struggle with that myself. 280 00:14:39,481 --> 00:14:44,191 It's like either I just kind of force myself to, to say something in the moment 281 00:14:44,191 --> 00:14:47,731 so that I'm a part of the conversation and then spend the rest of the day 282 00:14:47,731 --> 00:14:49,231 thinking like, Why did I say that? 283 00:14:49,231 --> 00:14:52,171 I should have said it this other way, . You know? 284 00:14:52,891 --> 00:14:54,601 Or I just don't say anything at all. 285 00:14:54,601 --> 00:14:56,851 And then I'm like, Well, I'm not contributing to 286 00:14:57,111 --> 00:14:58,831 the conversation, you know? 287 00:14:58,831 --> 00:15:00,151 So like, how do I do that? 288 00:15:00,626 --> 00:15:03,746 So I think it's, you know, it's something we're all kind of still figuring out, 289 00:15:03,836 --> 00:15:08,456 but I definitely appreciate being in an environment where there's an awareness of 290 00:15:08,456 --> 00:15:13,946 that and an openness to kind of experiment with the ways that we work together. 291 00:15:14,216 --> 00:15:17,126 That just because a meeting is on the calendar on this day and done 292 00:15:17,126 --> 00:15:19,736 a certain way doesn't mean that it needs to be done that way forever. 293 00:15:20,126 --> 00:15:22,736 We should be making sure we should be challenging ourselves and making 294 00:15:22,741 --> 00:15:25,296 sure that our processes are serving. 295 00:15:26,056 --> 00:15:29,416 So, yeah, I'm, I'm finding that at web flow, which is, which is nice. 296 00:15:29,416 --> 00:15:34,216 It feels like there's a, a lot of thought and intentionality behind how the design 297 00:15:34,216 --> 00:15:35,506 team works together, which is great. 298 00:15:35,986 --> 00:15:36,496 eddie: That's great. 299 00:15:36,556 --> 00:15:37,576 That's always refreshing. 300 00:15:37,936 --> 00:15:40,576 Well, yeah, I mean, one thing we, we always like to talk about 301 00:15:40,576 --> 00:15:44,416 during this podcast is something that brings us joy, right? 302 00:15:44,421 --> 00:15:46,936 Different tools, software frameworks. 303 00:15:47,086 --> 00:15:50,476 So is there any particular things that you've found recently that 304 00:15:50,476 --> 00:15:51,886 you've really enjoyed using? 305 00:15:52,761 --> 00:15:56,091 Lauren: Yeah, so I recently discovered, I don't think it's new, 306 00:15:56,091 --> 00:16:01,431 but it's new to me, this app called libro.fm, and it's an audiobook app. 307 00:16:01,611 --> 00:16:05,661 So I love reading, but over the past couple years, I've definitely just 308 00:16:05,666 --> 00:16:09,081 spent more time doom scrolling on my phone than I would like to admit. 309 00:16:09,141 --> 00:16:12,531 And I've been trying to like, kind of ta, you know, get away from 310 00:16:12,531 --> 00:16:14,601 that, get, get back to reading. 311 00:16:14,961 --> 00:16:18,561 I also love podcasts, but uh, and I subscribe to a ton, but sometimes 312 00:16:18,561 --> 00:16:19,551 there's just nothing that's catching. 313 00:16:20,286 --> 00:16:24,036 Catching my attention, and I've looked at Audible a handful of times, 314 00:16:24,036 --> 00:16:27,786 but every time I've looked at it, I've just found it very confusing. 315 00:16:27,786 --> 00:16:30,486 And I also don't really wanna give Amazon more money. 316 00:16:30,726 --> 00:16:35,196 I read about this app, libro.fm, and I think what makes it so cool 317 00:16:35,196 --> 00:16:38,556 is that they partner with local bookstores and split the profits. 318 00:16:38,946 --> 00:16:42,996 So while you are onboarding on the app, you select your bookstore. 319 00:16:42,996 --> 00:16:46,836 So there's a bookstore three blocks away from me, and when I buy books, 320 00:16:46,926 --> 00:16:48,946 audio books through libro.fm. 321 00:16:49,311 --> 00:16:50,601 They get half of the profit. 322 00:16:50,601 --> 00:16:55,041 And I love that because even when I'm not good at reading, I still, I still love 323 00:16:55,041 --> 00:16:57,471 going into bookstores and looking around. 324 00:16:57,891 --> 00:17:02,301 So I love the idea of supporting the, the local small businesses too. 325 00:17:02,691 --> 00:17:04,521 So that's definitely been bringing me joy. 326 00:17:04,551 --> 00:17:08,611 I started listening to, Dave Girl's autobiography the Storyteller, 327 00:17:08,881 --> 00:17:10,381 and he's the one narrating it. 328 00:17:10,381 --> 00:17:16,291 So it's, it's really cool hearing from the author and of course him being musician. 329 00:17:16,291 --> 00:17:19,531 There's music in there too, which really makes it a rich experience. 330 00:17:19,531 --> 00:17:22,531 So very bullish on Libro FM right 331 00:17:22,531 --> 00:17:22,801 eddie: now. 332 00:17:23,101 --> 00:17:26,371 No, I, I love that because I feel like. 333 00:17:26,691 --> 00:17:31,881 In my heart, I want to support local bookstores, local stores, but I find 334 00:17:31,881 --> 00:17:35,601 myself at conflict because of the ease of like the internet, right? 335 00:17:35,601 --> 00:17:39,861 And it's like sometimes you want something digitally or it's easier to 336 00:17:39,861 --> 00:17:43,671 order online, and it's like you're at constant conflict because oftentimes the 337 00:17:43,676 --> 00:17:46,761 local stores don't have as much ease. 338 00:17:46,821 --> 00:17:48,251 So I love that Libro. 339 00:17:48,716 --> 00:17:49,406 Bridging the gap. 340 00:17:49,406 --> 00:17:52,796 They're like, Hey, we're gonna make it really easy for you to buy and 341 00:17:52,796 --> 00:17:57,416 listen to an audiobook, but you also get to support those local stores. 342 00:17:57,416 --> 00:18:00,956 So that's, that's a nice, like, you know, finding a, a middle ground 343 00:18:00,956 --> 00:18:04,616 there for, for those of us who like ease of use, which I am one, 344 00:18:05,691 --> 00:18:07,011 . Lauren: Yeah, I mean, we're all human. 345 00:18:08,871 --> 00:18:09,201 . Yes, 346 00:18:09,291 --> 00:18:09,831 eddie: definitely. 347 00:18:10,431 --> 00:18:11,121 Well, cool. 348 00:18:11,121 --> 00:18:16,731 We always like to kind of wrap up the episodes with kind of 349 00:18:16,731 --> 00:18:21,081 hearing about anything that people are involved in or sharing 350 00:18:21,081 --> 00:18:22,341 something that they're involved in. 351 00:18:22,341 --> 00:18:24,591 So is there anything that you'd like to share 352 00:18:24,591 --> 00:18:25,021 Lauren: with the community? 353 00:18:25,571 --> 00:18:30,971 Yeah, so earlier this year I joined on Deck's design fellowship and sort of 354 00:18:30,971 --> 00:18:34,751 to my earlier point about connecting with and learning from other designers, 355 00:18:35,021 --> 00:18:37,031 I've really enjoyed it for that reason. 356 00:18:37,091 --> 00:18:41,441 Um, been meeting lots of other design folks, either like in one 357 00:18:41,446 --> 00:18:43,391 on ones or in like group sessions. 358 00:18:43,391 --> 00:18:47,111 But it's been really cool to kind of see all the different 359 00:18:47,111 --> 00:18:48,851 paths other people have taken. 360 00:18:49,001 --> 00:18:52,871 Like we get, you know, we have this one career and you know, there's. 361 00:18:53,101 --> 00:18:55,441 So many times you think, Well, what if I did this, or, what if I did 362 00:18:55,441 --> 00:18:57,031 that, or Should I do this or do that? 363 00:18:57,331 --> 00:19:01,441 And getting to, to meet with people who have been on totally different 364 00:19:01,441 --> 00:19:04,921 journeys or made different choices and just like learning from their 365 00:19:04,921 --> 00:19:07,201 experiences has been really cool. 366 00:19:07,501 --> 00:19:10,441 So I recommend, I recommend the fellowship. 367 00:19:10,646 --> 00:19:11,516 It's been really good. 368 00:19:11,516 --> 00:19:14,696 So I think for me, I've traditionally always worked on 369 00:19:14,696 --> 00:19:19,016 smaller design teams where I'm like one of two or one of just a few. 370 00:19:19,316 --> 00:19:24,596 And so for me, having, uh, a larger community of designers to kind of 371 00:19:24,601 --> 00:19:26,726 tap into has been really valuable. 372 00:19:26,726 --> 00:19:30,326 So whether that's talking about processes or interviewing 373 00:19:30,566 --> 00:19:32,571 salary, All kinds of things. 374 00:19:32,571 --> 00:19:36,111 Like I now feel like I have a group of people that I can turn to for 375 00:19:36,111 --> 00:19:39,861 those things that I kind of didn't have before because I've always 376 00:19:39,861 --> 00:19:43,551 been in like smaller companies, so my network has just been smaller by 377 00:19:43,551 --> 00:19:44,031 eddie: default. 378 00:19:44,421 --> 00:19:45,261 That makes sense. 379 00:19:45,321 --> 00:19:50,121 Well, and it's interesting because I feel like design is an industry that has 380 00:19:50,121 --> 00:19:52,431 that problem even more than other things. 381 00:19:52,931 --> 00:19:56,621 even more medium to larger size companies feel like, Oh, we can get 382 00:19:56,621 --> 00:19:58,781 away with just one or two designers. 383 00:19:58,781 --> 00:19:59,561 Like I feel like, mm-hmm. 384 00:19:59,801 --> 00:20:04,661 Design is an area where you're kind of the last ones to get more people once 385 00:20:04,661 --> 00:20:06,911 you have one or two in there, . Yeah. 386 00:20:07,121 --> 00:20:10,481 Lauren: I mean, even at companies where I've been one of like five 387 00:20:10,486 --> 00:20:14,251 designers or something, each designer has been on one product area, so. 388 00:20:14,511 --> 00:20:18,051 This is my first time in my job of like having other designers 389 00:20:18,051 --> 00:20:19,551 kind of on my same team. 390 00:20:19,971 --> 00:20:23,751 We're working on different things, but yeah, traditionally I've, I've 391 00:20:23,751 --> 00:20:29,271 kind of been on my own, on my team for design and then of course, you know, 392 00:20:29,271 --> 00:20:32,841 having those design critiques and design jams and things to connect on. 393 00:20:32,871 --> 00:20:37,731 But I think ha, just having more opportunity to connect with people from so 394 00:20:37,731 --> 00:20:42,051 many different backgrounds and experiences has just been, yeah, it's been. 395 00:20:42,641 --> 00:20:44,261 eddie: Yeah, I think that sounds really refreshing. 396 00:20:44,441 --> 00:20:48,821 Well, I will include links to all these things that we've talked about in this 397 00:20:48,821 --> 00:20:53,411 episode in the show notes, so feel free to check out the show notes if any 398 00:20:53,411 --> 00:20:55,061 of this stuff popped out to you all. 399 00:20:55,421 --> 00:20:59,201 And Lauren, thank you so much for joining me to chat today. 400 00:20:59,201 --> 00:20:59,651 It's been so 401 00:20:59,651 --> 00:21:00,131 Lauren: fun. 402 00:21:00,401 --> 00:21:01,571 Yeah, it's been really fun. 403 00:21:01,571 --> 00:21:02,531 Thanks for reaching out. 404 00:21:03,542 --> 00:21:06,242 eddie: Thank you for joining us for episode 22. 405 00:21:06,542 --> 00:21:10,292 There's something really vulnerable about design with Lauren Chill Coat. 406 00:21:10,922 --> 00:21:15,722 You can find out more about Lauren on her Twitter at Lauren Chill coat or 407 00:21:15,722 --> 00:21:19,232 her website, lauren chill coat.com. 408 00:21:19,772 --> 00:21:23,372 You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode, as well 409 00:21:23,372 --> 00:21:24,902 as a link to Lauren's Twitter and. 410 00:21:25,772 --> 00:21:26,912 Over in the show notes. 411 00:21:27,392 --> 00:21:30,872 If you enjoyed this episode, help others discover it as well. 412 00:21:31,352 --> 00:21:35,462 We always love it if you give us a shout on Twitter and your friend 413 00:21:35,462 --> 00:21:38,672 or coworker will love it if you tag them if you think they'd enjoy it. 414 00:21:39,332 --> 00:21:44,252 Don't forget to follow us on Twitter to stay up to date at Web Joy fm. 415 00:21:44,852 --> 00:21:48,032 Thank you for listening and we hope you have a great day.