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Well, hello and welcome to
the eCommerce Podcast with

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me, your host, Matt Edmundson.

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For those of you who don't know
me, a very warm welcome to you.

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I've been an eCommerce since 2002.

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Uh, I like to call myself an eCommerce
because I like to make it works.

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It's just generally the way it works.

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Uh, but I've been one since 2002.

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Uh, I tend to partner with
e-commerce brands these days,

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helping them grow, scale and exit.

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And obviously if you'd like to
know more about that and how we

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could work together, excuse me.

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Just head over to the website eCommerce
Podcast dot net, where incidentally

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you can sign up to our newsletter
called the eCommerce, uh, which

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has got lots of added value, so,
uh, and it's totally free as well.

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So do go check that out, all at the
eCommerce Podcast dot net website.

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But that's enough about me.

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Let's talk about today's guest, Robert.

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Robert, welcome to the show, all
the way from Sunny Los Angeles.

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Uh, how are we doing today?

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And tell us a brief bit about yourself.

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Good sir.

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Hey, Matt.

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Thanks for having me.

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Um, we're, we're doing great.

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It's, um, you know, uh, it's
an unlikely rainy day, uh, in

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Los Angeles, but we're, uh.

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You should try living in Liverpool.

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We have a sunshine day, which we're
happy to see as well, so maybe,

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Well, we test to burn down
here every once in a while.

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So rain is always

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welcome.

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But, uh,

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Yeah, no doubt.

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yeah, so I'm, uh, I'm the founder
and CEO of Freight Wright.

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Uh, uh, what started as a, uh,
as a logistics company, then

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evolved into logistics and
logistics technology company.

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And, uh, do quite a bit of work, uh,
these days on the, on the intersection

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of e-commerce, uh, logistics, uh,
and technology that, you know, uh,

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ties all of that together, uh, with
more emphasis on, uh, on larger items

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and, and then more expensive goods
than your typical, you know, parcel.

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Yeah.

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That's great.

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Well, Robert, I've been looking
forward to this conversation

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because, uh, two reasons.

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One, we don't really have many
people on the show talking about

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shipping products and two, I. There
is probably one important aspect of

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e-commerce, which rarely gets discussed
and that shipping products, right?

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So it's, it's, it sort of worked well
on both sides because I know from

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my own experience, we get people on
the show and, uh, you know, all our

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guests have been great and we, we
talk about email marketing, we talk

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about social media and, and social
commerce and so on and so forth.

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Um, but actually once we've sold
the product, obviously we've

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gotta get it to our customer.

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And this has been one of those
things that's actually had a

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big impact on our business.

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So, uh, I, I, I think it's
great that you are here.

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So thank you for joining us.

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Um, let's jump straight in.

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Uh, you obviously have shipped millions
of products, uh, all over the world.

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I think you, if I, if my data
and research is correct, you are

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involved in 166 different countries,
uh, as things currently stand.

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So, you know, a thing or two about
moving boxes around the world.

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What's the, what's the biggest
mistake you see e-commerce businesses

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making Time and time again?

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Yeah, definitely.

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Um.

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Boy.

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Um, that's, that's, uh, let me choose one.

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a,

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There's a lot, uh.

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there, there, there's a lot.

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Now, um, again, the, I'm, I'm, I'm
going to approach this from the

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lens of, uh, bulky items, right?

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Because

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that's kind of, uh, where
I have the most expertise.

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So, uh, the biggest mistake we see, uh,
eCommerce brands make is actually not.

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Internationally, right?

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Not, not expand into
international markets.

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Um, and that's probably a
tie with, um, again, in the

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bulky, larger item, um, space.

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Um, the second or maybe,
uh, tie that first place.

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The other mistake is, um,
brands basically build in the

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shipping into the cost of goods.

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Um, because.

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It's, you know, they, they, it's
very hard to figure out how to

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calculate shipping for larger items.

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So they tend to basically just, you know,
mark up the product enough to hopefully

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cover most cases where they have to.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Right.

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So these are, well, we've got two there.

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Let's dig into the first one.

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So not expanding into
international markets.

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Now, if I'm gonna think this through,
and I'm, I don't ship bulky items.

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I ship, I ship tiny things
like this, like supplements.

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Uh, although that said, we are just
about, hopefully we're, we're, we're

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getting involved with a company
that does ship very bulky items.

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Big old, I say very bulky.

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I'm talking, you know, maybe four foot.

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By three foot, by two foot, not, not
like a couch or a car kind of book.

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Um,

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I can understand if I say sell
couches, which is the immediate

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bulky item that comes into my head,
why I would only ship those I.

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Nationally and not internationally.

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'cause it will just fill me with dread.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Just, just even thinking about
shipping those internationally.

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So I'm curious as to why you
see this as the biggest mistake

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e-commerce entrepreneurs are making.

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'cause that's quite a bold statement
and I'm, I, I want to dig into that.

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Yeah.

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And again, um, this is from the lens
of, you know, lo logistics guy, right?

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Um, or, or a global logistics guy.

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So, uh, by the way, uh, a
four foot by three foot by

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two three, that's pretty much.

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That's very bulky, considering, you know,
like FedEx, U-P-S-D-H-L parcel carriers,

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that they, they don't like that stuff.

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It doesn't

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fit very well into their
workflows, into their processes,

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into their conveyors, right?

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So that's essentially freight.

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It's not parcel.

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So, uh, what, what we see
time and time again is, um,

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basically.

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If, if you are a brand and, uh, that,
that, that's especially has, you know,

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social media presence, let's say, because
with social media, you don't really

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have a lot of control on where your
content is, uh, shown in which country.

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Right?

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So you see, like, especially if it
gets, you know, uh, picked up by some

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kind of an influencer, they might have.

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You know, influence overseas, right?

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And then so you get all these people
clicking on your, um, social media

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content in other countries, then your home
market, uh, and they essentially can't

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buy your product in most cases, right?

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So, uh, we hear from brands all the
time, oh, you know, this is like, we

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sell exercise machines and, you know, um.

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Let's say a US brand gets their, uh,
social media content, uh, clicked

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on in Europe and people click on
it, they like it, they want to buy

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it, and then they go on the shopping cart.

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And there's no shopping shipping
options available to Europe from

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United States.

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Um, one of two things happen.

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Uh, one is they.

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Basically give up and move on.

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So you've lost the sale.

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Two is they actually reach
out to the brand and say,

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Hey, I want to buy your stuff.

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I'm in Europe.

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How do I buy it?

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Uh, then the brand, you know, operators
are kind of, you know, at a loss,

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uh, at what to do because, you know,
two, the traditional method is to

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go and request quotes manually and
then get back to the, to the lead.

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And by the time you've done all
that, there's so much work goes.

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Yeah.

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So this is, this is the,
the status quo, if you will.

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Right.

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But, uh, this is especially true
again, of brands that have social

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media as as a, you know, um,

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as a channel to advertise.

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Um, or not, I shouldn't say advertise
because advertising, you can control

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Yeah.

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No, I, I, I, I get what you mean.

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It's an interesting one, and I, there's
a brand that springs to mind, right?

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And there's a, you talked
about exercise equipment.

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There's a brand called Rogue, okay.

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R-O-G-U-E.

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And Rogue is an American
manufacturer of fitness equipment.

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Um, they're quite popular in
strongman and CrossFit kind of areas.

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And the way that they seem to have got
around this, because CrossFit was a

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worldwide brand, was they set up, I'm
guessing, a distribution center in Europe.

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Um, and so I'm guessing there's some
distributor in Europe somewhere,

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which imports a whole, I'm gonna
imagine a container load of

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goods at any one point in time.

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And then they distribute across Europe.

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Is that.

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What, say a US brand wanting to get into
Europe should do, or can actually the

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US brand ship from the US direct to the
consumer now, has that become a lot easier

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and maybe a lot more cost effective?

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Yeah, that's, uh, see, uh, fitness
is a great, uh, example because

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fitness is your traditional.

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Into new markets, which is
essentially you find a distributor,

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either you find a distributor or
you set up shop in that region,

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right?

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You, uh, essentially, you know,
it's the same setup essentially,

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because now you are giving up.

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Uh, first of all, it's a huge undertaking
because a distributor, you have to

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convince a distributor to carry your
brand, to buy inventory, uh, to hold

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inventory, to have a marketing campaign.

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Uh, right.

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And you are competing against the
distributors, other brands, the

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distributors representing now to get that.

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You go to trade shows and, you know,
uh, it's just like this really big

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undertaking and takes months and years
sometimes to establish in a new market.

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Um, again, alternative being,
you go and set it up yourself.

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You set up a branch or, you know.

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So you set up local offices and
then it's basically all that cost.

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So, uh, you know, what we're seeing,
uh, this is very general and obviously

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may vary, but, uh, rock Fitness probably
spends about 40% of the, uh, of their.

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Overseas.

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Basically they give up about 40%
of their revenue, either to their

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distributor or to inventory costs
and to logistics costs and, uh,

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administrative and all of that stuff.

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So it's, it's at some point you sort of
graduate to it because that's the most,

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uh, I wanna say efficient place to be
where you have enough business in that

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region where you can establish yourself.

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Right.

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But what do you do before that?

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What do, if.

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A bunch of smaller countries, smaller
markets where you don't want presence

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or it's not worth going and spending
money and finding distributors, right?

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So, uh, if you are selling
smaller items, this is, there

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are solutions for that, right?

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You can, uh, actually integrate
your shopping cart with, you

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know, FedEx, U-P-S-D-H-L.

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Uh, they will automatically
populate, calculate shipping.

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Uh, there's a bunch of products out
there that calculate duties and taxes.

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They'll manage them for you.

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And, you know, I think, uh, Shopify
recently launched, uh, a product where

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they will actually act as your, uh, fiscal
representative locally to, uh, actually

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pay duties and taxes on your behalf.

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Right now, uh, it, it of course
cost a 3D penny to do that, but, uh,

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uh, ultimately there's a solution.

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Now, again, if you're selling larger
items, say exercise equipment.

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Uh, the solution doesn't exist because
UPS or DHL would not carry your

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exercise equipment, uh, because it's
just too heavy and too big, right?

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That you need a freight solution for that.

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So, uh, it, it hasn't, uh, the, you know.

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The, the way we approach it is basically
we're, uh, replicating the DHL service

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or FedEx service, but with freight.

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So it's commercial freight, you know,
delivered with heavy trucks and,

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you know, dollies and, uh, often
multiple people, you know, doing

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unpacking and assembly even sometimes.

234
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:17,180
Uh, and, you know, uh, essentially
we're, we're treating the,

235
00:12:17,330 --> 00:12:19,100
uh, the buyer as our customer.

236
00:12:20,510 --> 00:12:24,320
Right, so, so that we're able to
represent them for local customs in

237
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,500
the local countries and all of the
duties and taxations so that the brand

238
00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:28,790
doesn't get involved in all of that.

239
00:12:29,630 --> 00:12:34,310
And what that allows you to do as a
brand is, uh, you know, let's say you

240
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:37,460
are getting interest, your US brand, and
you're getting interest in Europe, right?

241
00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:40,100
Instead of trying to go and spend,
you know, tens and hundreds of

242
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:44,060
thousands of dollars to build out the
distribution network, you basically

243
00:12:44,060 --> 00:12:46,760
just enable shipping to that country.

244
00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:52,230
Enable duty and tax calculation to
that country and maybe use that budget

245
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:55,710
instead on some, uh, ad campaigns
in that country or in that region.

246
00:12:56,460 --> 00:13:00,090
And that allows you to ship
directly to the individual consumers

247
00:13:00,270 --> 00:13:04,530
in those countries, uh, to at
the very least have coverage.

248
00:13:04,530 --> 00:13:06,405
Not lose the sale, but
also to test the orders

249
00:13:06,689 --> 00:13:09,720
and see is your product actually
doing well in these regions?

250
00:13:11,075 --> 00:13:15,785
Does it mean then, um, and this
maybe speaks to your second

251
00:13:15,785 --> 00:13:19,385
point about, uh, brands building
shipping costs and cost of goods.

252
00:13:20,705 --> 00:13:23,826
Does it, does it mean then that I am.

253
00:13:25,505 --> 00:13:31,115
I'm a British customer, I go onto a rogue
fitness website or the equivalent, um,

254
00:13:31,145 --> 00:13:34,115
you know, uh, what's another website
in the states that I use quite a bit.

255
00:13:34,115 --> 00:13:37,175
Woodpeckers, uh, which is
a woodworking brand, right?

256
00:13:37,175 --> 00:13:39,845
So, um, I go onto the Woodpecker website.

257
00:13:39,845 --> 00:13:42,005
There are certain things that they
will sell and there are certain

258
00:13:42,005 --> 00:13:42,845
things that they won't sell.

259
00:13:42,845 --> 00:13:44,225
I'm guessing it's due to freight.

260
00:13:44,225 --> 00:13:46,625
'cause one they can shit with
FedEx and the other one they can't.

261
00:13:47,255 --> 00:13:47,765
Um.

262
00:13:49,325 --> 00:13:54,905
Does it mean that the costs though are
gonna start to become quite prohibitive?

263
00:13:54,965 --> 00:14:00,935
Because, um, I'm thinking maybe
with a hat of 15 years ago, Robert,

264
00:14:00,935 --> 00:14:04,265
where it was just like crazy money
to ship from the states to the uk.

265
00:14:04,865 --> 00:14:08,855
Um, when I lived in the States, it was
crazy money to ship from the US to the uk.

266
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,045
I I, I dunno if things
have got any better.

267
00:14:11,705 --> 00:14:17,285
Um, how do, how do you deal with the
shipping costs of, of this activity?

268
00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:23,645
Now that part has gotten, uh,
has gotten better, uh, granted.

269
00:14:23,855 --> 00:14:24,005
Uh.

270
00:14:25,325 --> 00:14:29,375
You know, assuming you're working
with a, with an eCommerce, logistics

271
00:14:29,375 --> 00:14:32,735
comp, logistics company that
specializes in eCommerce brands, right.

272
00:14:33,305 --> 00:14:39,545
Uh, so I think one key differentiation
is, is to keep in mind is, you

273
00:14:39,545 --> 00:14:40,955
know, freight versus parcel.

274
00:14:41,465 --> 00:14:46,895
So parcel we're all used to, uh, we're
all used to Amazon or UPS drivers showing

275
00:14:46,895 --> 00:14:51,335
up, you know, with small, that, that,
that's very efficient, very mature.

276
00:14:53,675 --> 00:14:55,175
Service slash product.

277
00:14:55,865 --> 00:14:58,025
Uh, freight has always
been a commercial product.

278
00:14:58,025 --> 00:15:01,205
It's always been businesses
buying large items for, from

279
00:15:01,205 --> 00:15:01,925
businesses, right?

280
00:15:01,925 --> 00:15:08,165
So it's, it's, you know, most freight
companies, uh, don't actually have even

281
00:15:08,165 --> 00:15:11,945
customer service personnel so that they're
not geared towards dealing with consumers.

282
00:15:12,365 --> 00:15:15,635
So you, the service expectation,
the service level is kind of.

283
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,950
But it's definitely changing as we
get into more and more, you know,

284
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:24,340
uh, as, as, uh, species, I guess.

285
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,460
Uh, we're getting more and more
into, uh, buying stuff online,

286
00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:28,990
even larger stuff, right?

287
00:15:28,990 --> 00:15:30,040
Like, think of mattresses.

288
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,070
It used to be bulky
deliveries of these large

289
00:15:33,070 --> 00:15:36,010
pieces that were pretty buly
requires tool and to deliver.

290
00:15:36,010 --> 00:15:36,520
Now.

291
00:15:36,555 --> 00:15:39,825
Most mattresses shipped,
basically vacuum rolled up, right?

292
00:15:39,825 --> 00:15:40,035
And they

293
00:15:40,130 --> 00:15:40,370
right.

294
00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:41,030
Yep.

295
00:15:41,115 --> 00:15:44,505
So, so we've graduated to
buying mattresses online.

296
00:15:44,505 --> 00:15:49,605
The design of the product is evolving
to support digital, sort of purchasing

297
00:15:49,605 --> 00:15:52,995
and, and, and, uh, e-commerce
deliveries and things like that.

298
00:15:52,995 --> 00:15:57,645
So as we're moving more and more into
that space, even heavier stuff is becoming

299
00:15:57,705 --> 00:15:59,625
more and more common to buy online.

300
00:16:00,435 --> 00:16:00,615
Right?

301
00:16:02,075 --> 00:16:06,005
20, 30 years, you wouldn't
really buy furniture online.

302
00:16:06,005 --> 00:16:06,275
Now

303
00:16:06,410 --> 00:16:06,830
No.

304
00:16:06,950 --> 00:16:07,880
Yeah, it's quite common.

305
00:16:08,735 --> 00:16:14,255
um, so we as an industry, like the
logistics industry is definitely evolving,

306
00:16:15,005 --> 00:16:21,150
uh, with, uh, you know, e-commerce, uh,
brands like Temu and cn and, you know, uh.

307
00:16:26,270 --> 00:16:32,150
Uh, the efficiency game, uh, when it
comes to consolidations, you know, making

308
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:38,840
basically, uh, building up containers,
uh, or, or airline containers, let's just

309
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,220
say, or ocean containers of consolidated
e-commerce goods, which basically reduces

310
00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:47,690
the cost is you bringing the same kind
efficiency that, uh, retailers use.

311
00:16:49,545 --> 00:16:49,965
Mm-hmm.

312
00:16:51,515 --> 00:16:52,564
For eCommerce brands.

313
00:16:52,564 --> 00:16:56,675
So think of, you know, instead of a
container that has, let's say 10,000

314
00:16:56,675 --> 00:17:01,745
t-shirts, uh, going to say Walmart
or Target, you have a container with

315
00:17:01,745 --> 00:17:06,485
10,000 t-shirts that are individually
labeled to go to the final buyer.

316
00:17:07,385 --> 00:17:10,504
Right, So you, you are still
consolidating the container.

317
00:17:10,504 --> 00:17:12,545
You're still making use of that space.

318
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,680
Uh, you could also, uh, I think
successfully argue that, uh, you

319
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,520
know, shipping directly, again, I'm
gonna jump back to bulky items here.

320
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:34,880
Uh, shipping bulky items directly from the
country of Origin to the consumer in the

321
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:41,120
country where you're selling individually,
uh, saves a lot of logistics cost compared

322
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:44,420
to, uh, shipping to a distributor.

323
00:17:44,825 --> 00:17:48,575
Who then has to basically
inventory this stuff,

324
00:17:48,845 --> 00:17:50,555
you know, add a margin, right?

325
00:17:50,555 --> 00:17:51,725
Cover their operations.

326
00:17:51,730 --> 00:17:55,325
There is, there is like a whole world
of logistics cost there where, you

327
00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:58,325
know, shipping an individual item, you
are basically bypassing all of that.

328
00:17:58,325 --> 00:17:59,375
You're cutting all of that out.

329
00:18:00,215 --> 00:18:04,085
Uh, so you've done efficiently,
uh, it could potentially

330
00:18:04,085 --> 00:18:05,555
be a game changer, right?

331
00:18:05,555 --> 00:18:10,055
And think of all the de mini
rules, which admittedly are, uh,

332
00:18:10,055 --> 00:18:11,555
under attack and getting cut in

333
00:18:11,655 --> 00:18:12,935
A little bit under flux.

334
00:18:12,965 --> 00:18:13,254
Yeah.

335
00:18:15,215 --> 00:18:18,725
But that, that's huge because then
for a lot of products, you're also

336
00:18:19,115 --> 00:18:24,605
avoiding, uh, duties, So, so in the
US it's, uh, it's been a game changer.

337
00:18:24,605 --> 00:18:29,465
Obviously, uh, you, you know, not,
not a great one for the consumer,

338
00:18:29,465 --> 00:18:33,755
uh, but, uh, you know, under $800,
basically you don't pay duty.

339
00:18:34,385 --> 00:18:39,095
Uh, which means, you know, traditionally
if you bought, let's say, a. A chair

340
00:18:39,395 --> 00:18:41,855
that cost a thousand dollars, right?

341
00:18:41,885 --> 00:18:43,385
A lot of it is logistics cost.

342
00:18:43,385 --> 00:18:45,665
A lot of it is duties,
warehousing and all of that.

343
00:18:46,235 --> 00:18:50,375
Uh, whereas if you ship it from the
Origin under the minis rules, you only

344
00:18:50,375 --> 00:18:54,185
declare essentially the cost of the
product and not any of the logistics.

345
00:18:54,185 --> 00:18:57,455
So that allows you to bring
that declared value under $800.

346
00:18:57,455 --> 00:18:57,815
Therefore.

347
00:19:00,050 --> 00:19:00,890
That whole thing just

348
00:19:00,890 --> 00:19:03,800
makes it a lot more, uh, cheaper.

349
00:19:04,670 --> 00:19:08,180
It also throws out a lot of regulation
and a lot of consumer safety style,

350
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:13,130
so it's, it's not necessarily a
great thing, but at least Costwise.

351
00:19:14,695 --> 00:19:15,905
Yeah, it makes it easier.

352
00:19:16,085 --> 00:19:16,805
Makes it easier.

353
00:19:17,375 --> 00:19:18,845
Listen, uh, this is great.

354
00:19:18,845 --> 00:19:22,055
If you are listening to the show and
you're involved in eCommerce yourself.

355
00:19:22,055 --> 00:19:23,165
You're an eCommerce founder.

356
00:19:23,705 --> 00:19:27,335
Uh, why not check out E-commerce Cohort?

357
00:19:27,365 --> 00:19:28,745
Yes, e-commerce Cohort.

358
00:19:28,745 --> 00:19:33,245
These are, uh, monthly Cohort groups
which are run totally free of charge.

359
00:19:33,245 --> 00:19:35,195
You can come meet other
e-commerce entrepreneurs.

360
00:19:35,195 --> 00:19:37,685
There's one in the states,
there's one in the uk.

361
00:19:37,685 --> 00:19:41,495
There's one in, uh, Australia, uh,
which also services New Zealand.

362
00:19:41,495 --> 00:19:44,105
So, uh, if you'd like to know
more about Cohort, hello to the

363
00:19:44,105 --> 00:19:47,525
website eCommerce Podcast net,
it'd be great to see you in there.

364
00:19:48,125 --> 00:19:48,335
Um.

365
00:19:49,310 --> 00:19:53,480
Robert, you mentioned, uh, briefly there,
and I, I want to circle back to it.

366
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:59,450
How's the whole tariff thing, uh,
at the moment with e-commerce?

367
00:19:59,510 --> 00:20:04,310
Um, especially, I mean, I know if I
import steel into the US I'm screwed.

368
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:06,649
If I try and sell cars
to the us I'm screwed.

369
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:12,620
Um, but I mean the, you know,
how, how it feels a little

370
00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:14,180
bit wild westy at the moment.

371
00:20:14,330 --> 00:20:14,899
Um.

372
00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:18,260
Just because you never know what's
gonna happen one day to the next,

373
00:20:18,260 --> 00:20:21,440
but how's that affecting shipping?

374
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,390
So, um, maybe customers who are
actually exporting to the US and

375
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:27,980
maybe not the US shipping to Europe.

376
00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:32,180
If I'm in Europe and shipping to the us,
how's it, how's it all looking out there?

377
00:20:33,965 --> 00:20:36,005
It is, uh, it is very volatile.

378
00:20:36,005 --> 00:20:36,605
Uh.

379
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,820
Uh, I think Wild, wild
West is, um, a comparison.

380
00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:42,920
Uh, I've made a couple of times.

381
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,930
I've heard of it, I've heard a few times.

382
00:20:44,930 --> 00:20:48,050
Um, and then I, I think
there's a good reason for it.

383
00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:54,050
Uh, the, look, the tariffs are not,
it's not just about tariffs, right?

384
00:20:54,050 --> 00:20:55,910
The f first of all, nobody likes v like.

385
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,590
Business doesn't like volatility.

386
00:20:57,590 --> 00:21:00,980
So, you know, having, uh, containers
on the way or having shipments on

387
00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:04,670
the way that you already pre-planned
and in a lot of cases pre-sold to be

388
00:21:04,670 --> 00:21:12,920
hit with tariffs, um, is, is uh, uh,
quite, quite, uh, quite a disaster,

389
00:21:12,980 --> 00:21:13,250
right?

390
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:14,900
If you are a, if you're a business.

391
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,060
Uh, but there's, uh, a whole logistics
challenge side of it because, uh.

392
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:24,020
What ends up happening with, uh, you
know, the current administration,

393
00:21:24,020 --> 00:21:27,560
they're, they're kind of, they're
moving very fast and a lot of times

394
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,510
seems making decisions on the go.

395
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,310
Uh, you know, maybe based on, uh,
negotiations they're having at the

396
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:37,700
time with a particular country or,
you know, whatever the case may be.

397
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:42,500
But, uh, but it's very, it's moving
very fast and, you know, the world

398
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,450
of logistics, uh, is, you know.

399
00:21:45,455 --> 00:21:48,365
System wise, you can't move that fast.

400
00:21:48,365 --> 00:21:48,605
Right?

401
00:21:48,605 --> 00:21:50,165
So I'll give you an example.

402
00:21:50,165 --> 00:21:55,115
When they announced, uh, a
25% tarone, uh, steal, right?

403
00:21:55,175 --> 00:21:57,635
The, the new one, um, or I think aluminum

404
00:21:57,935 --> 00:22:00,155
or aluminum for, uh, our European

405
00:22:00,215 --> 00:22:00,785
Europeans.

406
00:22:00,785 --> 00:22:00,875
Yeah.

407
00:22:03,245 --> 00:22:05,945
uh, so when they announced that.

408
00:22:05,965 --> 00:22:09,085
You know, it went into, it
supposedly went into effect.

409
00:22:09,175 --> 00:22:13,075
And the way, as a customs broker you
handle that is there, there's a, you

410
00:22:13,075 --> 00:22:17,845
know, you have your HS code or HTS
code for the product that you type into

411
00:22:17,845 --> 00:22:20,725
your system, and it calculates the duty
amount that you're supposed to pay.

412
00:22:21,025 --> 00:22:24,625
There's another one that you type in
there specifically for aluminum that would

413
00:22:24,625 --> 00:22:27,385
add another, you know, tariff on top.

414
00:22:27,955 --> 00:22:29,935
Problem is customs, you know.

415
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,920
It takes a lot of software programming
and a lot of system administration

416
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,390
to actually make that work, and it
took a good, I wanna say, seven to

417
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:39,890
10 days for it to start working.

418
00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:44,300
Now, all of the shipments that
were in transit and arrived

419
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:46,970
and were pending clearance at
that time, couldn't be cleared.

420
00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:51,225
Now, seven to 10 days, maybe
not that big of a deal.

421
00:22:51,410 --> 00:22:54,170
I think of all the air freight
shipments that are sitting at

422
00:22:54,170 --> 00:22:55,250
the airports, they cannot be

423
00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:56,540
cleared, cannot be picked up.

424
00:22:56,540 --> 00:22:59,600
You're talking about God
knows how much money, storage

425
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,100
charges and, you know, delays.

426
00:23:01,790 --> 00:23:05,060
You know, uh uh, like a thousand
kilo shipments that arrived in

427
00:23:05,060 --> 00:23:10,910
United States and sits at an airport
past 24 hours can easily accrue

428
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,490
like $600 a day in storage charges

429
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,480
and $6 if your freight sits there for.

430
00:23:22,205 --> 00:23:23,795
Literally the doesn't work.

431
00:23:24,095 --> 00:23:28,145
It hasn't been program yet, so, so there's
a lot of this kind of things happening.

432
00:23:29,540 --> 00:23:30,680
They're happening all the time.

433
00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:36,320
Uh, we have a brand, uh, customer of
ours that's, uh, you know, their product

434
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:42,740
seemingly fits into the, uh, the aluminum
tariff, but it's not actually on the list.

435
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:44,870
So they don't know how
to set the sale price.

436
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:48,680
They don't know if this is a mistake,
it's gonna get added later, or

437
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,980
can you, you know, because you're
talking about 25% on your cost.

438
00:23:51,980 --> 00:23:52,370
Obviously

439
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:55,310
there's a lot of.

440
00:23:57,575 --> 00:23:58,445
Inconsistency.

441
00:23:58,445 --> 00:24:01,565
There's a lot of risk, there's
a lot of unknowns that people

442
00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:04,265
are, uh, you know, battling

443
00:24:05,615 --> 00:24:05,915
Yeah.

444
00:24:05,975 --> 00:24:08,735
And I imagine it's not just
into the states as well.

445
00:24:08,735 --> 00:24:10,745
I imagine it's the same for the US now.

446
00:24:10,775 --> 00:24:12,875
'cause a lot of countries
have retaliated, right?

447
00:24:13,325 --> 00:24:15,845
They've gone well, if you are putting
tariffs on me, we'll put tariffs on ours.

448
00:24:16,415 --> 00:24:19,835
And so you've got, you've
got problems with it.

449
00:24:19,835 --> 00:24:23,285
Kind of reminds me, I suppose
a little bit, Robert, of um.

450
00:24:23,975 --> 00:24:28,505
The pandemic, you know, with COVID and
just, it just, nobody knew what was do.

451
00:24:28,805 --> 00:24:32,015
And of course in the UK we had Brexit
and then that just went and screwed

452
00:24:32,015 --> 00:24:33,695
everything up worship and was concerned.

453
00:24:33,695 --> 00:24:39,185
And so it kind of feels like it's
been a volatile thing for a few years.

454
00:24:39,275 --> 00:24:41,855
Uh, if I'm honest with you, the,
the, the whole shipping thing.

455
00:24:43,415 --> 00:24:43,835
Correct.

456
00:24:43,835 --> 00:24:47,435
I think we got a little bit of a
break between, uh, COVID and, uh,

457
00:24:48,215 --> 00:24:52,355
this trade war, um, um, explosion.

458
00:24:52,625 --> 00:24:54,335
Uh, but you're right.

459
00:24:54,335 --> 00:24:58,085
I mean, you know, honestly, um, you
get a little desperate at times with,

460
00:24:58,205 --> 00:25:01,055
uh, you know, with all the problems.

461
00:25:01,060 --> 00:25:02,555
Uh, uh.

462
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,730
But then, you know, I always look back
and, you know, my, I've been in, I've

463
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:12,170
been handling international logistics
and customs for like 23 years, you

464
00:25:12,170 --> 00:25:17,480
know, so, uh, it's very rare that you
have like a period of no disruptions,

465
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:17,750
right?

466
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:18,920
It's so, there's always something.

467
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:20,660
It's, it's, you know, you have the,

468
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,610
Well, you're dealing with
governments, aren't you?

469
00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:24,020
So there's gonna be something.

470
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:28,400
Well, governments, pirates, uh,
I mean, natural disasters, right?

471
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:28,580
You've

472
00:25:28,580 --> 00:25:33,320
got, uh, you know, uh, ever given,
getting stuck in the Panama.

473
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:34,850
I mean, uh, not Panama Canal.

474
00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:36,140
Uh, Swiss Canal, right?

475
00:25:36,140 --> 00:25:40,460
So it's, it's just, it's just
not a, not a day goes by.

476
00:25:41,915 --> 00:25:43,745
something being a disruption in the role

477
00:25:43,745 --> 00:25:44,465
of logistics.

478
00:25:44,975 --> 00:25:47,435
Uh, and as for us, logistics
logisticians, right?

479
00:25:47,915 --> 00:25:51,605
But really not a year goes by without
something that becomes mainstream

480
00:25:51,605 --> 00:25:54,185
media kind of level disruption.

481
00:25:54,245 --> 00:25:57,575
So, uh, it's just, uh, I
feel like it is what it is.

482
00:25:57,575 --> 00:26:01,565
It's just, uh, times are, uh, volatile
and uh, you know, I don't think

483
00:26:01,565 --> 00:26:02,885
it's something that just happened,

484
00:26:03,485 --> 00:26:07,294
you know, it's been
many, many years I think.

485
00:26:07,905 --> 00:26:11,925
You know, it's, it's, it's, uh, that's
the paradigm, uh, we operate in.

486
00:26:11,925 --> 00:26:14,475
And I think, you know, so,

487
00:26:15,365 --> 00:26:15,545
Yeah, it

488
00:26:15,735 --> 00:26:18,855
you know, there's that saying like,
life is really hard, but if you

489
00:26:18,855 --> 00:26:23,205
really accept that life is hard,
it just no longer matters, right?

490
00:26:23,685 --> 00:26:26,925
So, so that's international trade.

491
00:26:26,925 --> 00:26:32,025
You know, like, uh, once you truly accept
that this is just how international trade

492
00:26:32,025 --> 00:26:33,165
works, then you learn to, uh.

493
00:26:36,544 --> 00:26:38,705
So that actually, I mean, that
ties in nicely with your first

494
00:26:38,705 --> 00:26:43,055
comment about how not expanding into
international markets is a big mistake.

495
00:26:43,595 --> 00:26:48,125
I wonder if part of the reason for that
is because people just, there's too

496
00:26:48,125 --> 00:26:50,225
much uncertainty in people's heads.

497
00:26:50,225 --> 00:26:56,825
Like, if I, if I ship this item that
is big and bulky, will it get there?

498
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,420
Will the customer claim
that it's not arrived?

499
00:26:59,450 --> 00:27:00,020
Do you know what I mean?

500
00:27:01,070 --> 00:27:03,680
There's all these kind of
questions that just get magnified.

501
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,130
I think when you put an ocean between
the two countries, don't they?

502
00:27:08,835 --> 00:27:10,095
Uh, correct.

503
00:27:10,245 --> 00:27:12,794
Now I look at it a little
differently, right?

504
00:27:13,215 --> 00:27:18,254
Um, I, well, in fact, I look, I see
it quite the op, quite the opposite

505
00:27:18,345 --> 00:27:21,375
sort of light because me, um.

506
00:27:22,055 --> 00:27:27,335
Especially in the context of, let's
say Europe and United States, or UK and

507
00:27:27,335 --> 00:27:31,264
United States, that the trade between,
uh, these countries, you know, a lot of

508
00:27:31,264 --> 00:27:34,175
the goods are actually not manufactured
in neither of these countries, right?

509
00:27:34,175 --> 00:27:36,725
These are brands that
manufacture typically in Asia,

510
00:27:36,955 --> 00:27:37,375
Mm-hmm.

511
00:27:37,805 --> 00:27:38,105
right?

512
00:27:38,105 --> 00:27:39,034
So, um.

513
00:27:39,410 --> 00:27:44,180
You know, when you're talking about
international freight and, and,

514
00:27:44,180 --> 00:27:48,950
and international expansion, uh,
now think of expanding and actually

515
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:50,780
fulfilling from the source, right?

516
00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:55,550
Let's say, uh, you're a UK brand selling
to us, uh, let's say Chinese made goods.

517
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,290
Uh, now you bring them to CHI to
UK and then you ship them to us.

518
00:28:00,350 --> 00:28:05,240
Uh, there's, you know, it's a longer,
longer lifecycle for the product.

519
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:09,020
There's a lot more things that can
go wrong in between, you know, now.

520
00:28:09,635 --> 00:28:11,615
Imagine fulfilling that
product from China.

521
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:17,690
Maybe not the best example given
the tension between us and China

522
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:20,810
with the trade, but, but at least
you, you know, you are removing all

523
00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:22,070
of these other things in between.

524
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:24,740
You're removing the time it takes
for this product to move around.

525
00:28:24,740 --> 00:28:27,950
You're removing a third country
with its own, you know, sort of,

526
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:29,990
uh, trade and political dynamics.

527
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:35,420
So it, it's becoming a more
straightforward, um, transaction.

528
00:28:35,870 --> 00:28:39,170
Now looking at it from a US
brand perspective where, you

529
00:28:39,170 --> 00:28:41,330
know, we, Americans are not.

530
00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:45,950
You know, the most popular country
right now, um, in, in the world, right?

531
00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:52,130
So if you're sell, if you're selling
Asia made products to, let's say Canada

532
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:56,630
or Australia, or you know, Europe, it
would be like a whole different thing.

533
00:28:57,155 --> 00:29:00,155
Shipping your product stream
from the factory to the consumer

534
00:29:00,215 --> 00:29:04,325
versus shipping it from your US inventory
where it's subject now to retaliations and

535
00:29:04,535 --> 00:29:06,095
all this other stuff.

536
00:29:06,095 --> 00:29:06,335
Right?

537
00:29:06,785 --> 00:29:10,445
So it's actually, it could be an
enabler and it could be a, a nice, uh,

538
00:29:11,225 --> 00:29:17,555
sort of hedge strategy, uh, basically
allowing you a lot more flexibility

539
00:29:17,555 --> 00:29:21,395
than just selling in the United
States or just selling in the uk.

540
00:29:22,130 --> 00:29:22,880
that's very true.

541
00:29:22,985 --> 00:29:24,200
I, I had not thought about that.

542
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,670
So the, the idea that with the trade
war, especially if you're not a popular

543
00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:29,900
country like the US at the moment.

544
00:29:30,695 --> 00:29:33,755
Um, then actually that,
that makes a lot of sense.

545
00:29:33,935 --> 00:29:37,385
So you can send your goods to, to Canada
still, but to send 'em straight from

546
00:29:37,385 --> 00:29:41,285
China as opposed to bringing them into
the US first, where it's just gonna be

547
00:29:41,285 --> 00:29:45,065
problematic and then shipping 'em out the
US to Canada is another set of problems.

548
00:29:45,545 --> 00:29:49,685
Whereas I imagine the trade between
Canada and China's pretty reasonable.

549
00:29:49,685 --> 00:29:52,475
In fact, I think team, you have
just started something in Canada

550
00:29:52,475 --> 00:29:54,395
from memory, so I think there's.

551
00:29:55,390 --> 00:29:58,175
I, I, I see that making
a lot of sense actually.

552
00:29:58,385 --> 00:30:06,035
Um, and, and hopefully resolving at least
some of the issues, uh, if, if not all

553
00:30:06,035 --> 00:30:11,105
of them, where do you, let's say, um, the
company that I was mentioning to you with

554
00:30:11,105 --> 00:30:14,465
the four foot by three foot things, where,
where's a good place to get started?

555
00:30:14,465 --> 00:30:18,905
So they're in, they're in good
old Blighty, um, uh, good old uk,

556
00:30:18,995 --> 00:30:20,255
uh, Blighty as we like to call it.

557
00:30:20,825 --> 00:30:22,535
Uh, they.

558
00:30:23,255 --> 00:30:28,805
Manufactured, uh, the product's
manufactured in China, and so let's

559
00:30:28,805 --> 00:30:32,165
say we go, actually, we feel like we
could do a good job in the US market.

560
00:30:32,165 --> 00:30:34,025
We feel like we've, we're starting
to get some traction there.

561
00:30:34,025 --> 00:30:35,075
How do I get started?

562
00:30:35,075 --> 00:30:35,765
Where do we start?

563
00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:40,855
I think, uh, you know, well, uh,

564
00:30:43,915 --> 00:30:48,715
I guess a good start is to understand,
uh, uh, which you seem to have

565
00:30:48,715 --> 00:30:51,235
done already, how well you can
do in the United States, right?

566
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:51,740
Mm-hmm.

567
00:30:52,075 --> 00:30:55,375
Uh, I would start with, uh, uh.

568
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,820
Very, you know, if you're talking
about like the shipping and tax

569
00:30:58,820 --> 00:31:02,180
calculation, that's you, you know,
for, for us, that's, that's very easy.

570
00:31:02,180 --> 00:31:02,840
That's what we do.

571
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,240
Uh, we can probably, uh, uh, set
that up within a week or so and you

572
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,530
can actually start playing, right?

573
00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:12,950
If you're a brand, you can start
playing around with, uh, you know,

574
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:17,570
analytics and maybe put a little bit
of a, a campaign behind it to see if

575
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:21,290
you can get people to, uh, to purchase.

576
00:31:24,379 --> 00:31:26,990
If you don't need a new shopping cart,
you don't need to enable anything.

577
00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:31,550
It's just you're basically
enabling additional countries for

578
00:31:31,550 --> 00:31:36,560
additional products and you can,
um, select which, uh, skews you

579
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:37,909
want to enable internationally.

580
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:39,440
So it's, it's, it's pretty dynamic.

581
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:44,420
I think the, the first things
you wanna look at is, uh, returns

582
00:31:44,420 --> 00:31:45,470
are still challenging, right?

583
00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:45,710
So you

584
00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:48,620
want understand, uh, how returns.

585
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,960
Either not accept returns or maybe
change your return policy a little bit.

586
00:31:57,590 --> 00:32:00,710
Uh, typically if you're shipping
international and it goes through

587
00:32:00,740 --> 00:32:05,570
commercial customs clearance, you wanna
have custom return policy for that market.

588
00:32:06,050 --> 00:32:08,930
So I would definitely look
into the return policy.

589
00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:12,500
One of the most obvious things
is, uh, that is, is your product.

590
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,710
Uh, compliant in that country.

591
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:16,390
And there's your product
work in that country.

592
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:18,790
I mean, we're talking about electronics.

593
00:32:18,790 --> 00:32:19,750
You wanna make sure you know it.

594
00:32:21,970 --> 00:32:22,450
Outlet,

595
00:32:22,685 --> 00:32:23,044
Yeah.

596
00:32:25,215 --> 00:32:28,150
uh, you know, these days most products.

597
00:32:28,150 --> 00:32:30,970
Do you just include an
additional sort of, uh.

598
00:32:31,790 --> 00:32:36,290
An adapter of some sort, and you
can start with including an adapter.

599
00:32:36,290 --> 00:32:39,860
And then once you see your market
develops, basically, then you

600
00:32:39,860 --> 00:32:41,899
make a US specific product, right?

601
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,500
With, uh, you know, whatever that
may mean for that particular product.

602
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,160
But those are some of the things I
would look at is, is can I actually

603
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,830
readily ship the stuff to the
United States and would work there?

604
00:32:53,030 --> 00:32:57,620
And, you know, on a very general
level, uh, is this product

605
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,450
compliant with the US regulation?

606
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,330
You know, can, will it run into
some kind of government issues?

607
00:33:02,450 --> 00:33:06,380
You know, uh, we, we do have
slightly different standards

608
00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:07,940
between US, Europe, and uk.

609
00:33:08,465 --> 00:33:11,525
Um, but, uh, you know.

610
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:15,860
For most products, it's, it's not, it's
not that big of a deal unless you're

611
00:33:15,860 --> 00:33:18,200
selling specialized things, right?

612
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,870
So, so those are the things I
would look at first, and then,

613
00:33:20,930 --> 00:33:24,140
you know, if you clear those hurdles,
then actually talk to somebody who

614
00:33:24,140 --> 00:33:30,110
can, uh, enable, you know, instant
shipping calculation and duty and tax,

615
00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:31,640
uh, handling.

616
00:33:33,820 --> 00:33:34,655
So the.

617
00:33:35,525 --> 00:33:36,635
This is an interesting one, isn't it?

618
00:33:36,635 --> 00:33:40,835
That you sort of, you've raised there
that the, the, there are legislative

619
00:33:40,835 --> 00:33:46,445
differences between the us, Europe
and the uk, um, and Australia as well.

620
00:33:46,445 --> 00:33:48,695
I'm gonna, you know, throw
those guys in there as well

621
00:33:48,695 --> 00:33:49,805
down in the Southern Hemisphere.

622
00:33:50,285 --> 00:33:53,580
So there you do have these different
regulations, which I know about this

623
00:33:53,675 --> 00:33:58,925
because shipping supplements to the UK is
different to selling supplements in the uk

624
00:33:58,925 --> 00:34:04,535
they've got the FDA, they have different
sets of rules, um, some of which are.

625
00:34:06,065 --> 00:34:09,515
More intense, some of which are
a bit less, uh, like statistical.

626
00:34:09,875 --> 00:34:19,775
I, I suppose, um, my question here,
Robert, is, is it legislatively, uh,

627
00:34:20,194 --> 00:34:24,424
is it a case of generally legislation
is more intense in the US than

628
00:34:24,424 --> 00:34:26,435
it is in say, Europe and the uk?

629
00:34:26,915 --> 00:34:28,415
Or is it the other way around?

630
00:34:28,415 --> 00:34:31,355
I'm just kind of curious
which one's easier to ship to?

631
00:34:33,219 --> 00:34:38,740
You know, uh, I feel like, uh, us,
uh, is a little more intense than,

632
00:34:38,830 --> 00:34:44,500
uh, uk um, Europe and, and Europe.

633
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:50,980
Um, I think regulation in U Europe and
UK is largely sort of, uh, uh, on par,

634
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:52,030
uh.

635
00:34:53,449 --> 00:34:57,110
But us, uh, in some respects
is a little more intense.

636
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,930
Uh, but it's also, uh, in, in,
in all of those four, right, the

637
00:35:02,930 --> 00:35:07,970
Europe, uk, Australia, actually New
Zealand, uh, us, it's, it's actually

638
00:35:07,970 --> 00:35:11,480
generally pretty easy compared to
everywhere else in the world, right?

639
00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:15,529
Uh, so they're all sort of
declaration based, right?

640
00:35:15,529 --> 00:35:18,500
So it's all what you
declare kind of is taken as.

641
00:35:19,414 --> 00:35:23,404
The basis, uh, versus let's say
middle Eastern countries or, you

642
00:35:23,404 --> 00:35:27,575
know, uh, Asia, where, you know,
you have to have like a whole, um,

643
00:35:27,725 --> 00:35:29,164
sort of proof of everything, right?

644
00:35:29,884 --> 00:35:35,555
Uh, from the declared value has to be
based on actual purchases versus like

645
00:35:35,555 --> 00:35:36,874
a declaration and things like that.

646
00:35:36,874 --> 00:35:39,634
So in some respects,
they're all pretty easy.

647
00:35:40,414 --> 00:35:42,575
Um, in others.

648
00:35:42,579 --> 00:35:42,799
Um.

649
00:35:45,754 --> 00:35:48,935
You know, if you're shipping, uh, I
guess again, it depends, uh, whether

650
00:35:48,935 --> 00:35:51,785
you're shipping supplements or you
know, things that are under a certain

651
00:35:51,785 --> 00:35:56,495
value and under de minimis rules versus
larger items, which typically tends

652
00:35:56,495 --> 00:35:59,585
to be more expensive and typically
tends to be commercial clearance.

653
00:35:59,795 --> 00:36:01,984
You know, they tend to
require commercial clearances.

654
00:36:02,734 --> 00:36:05,285
Uh, with commercial clearances,
you have to comply with all the

655
00:36:05,285 --> 00:36:06,605
government requirements, right?

656
00:36:09,634 --> 00:36:11,075
Declarations, those processes.

657
00:36:12,575 --> 00:36:14,105
United States, uh.

658
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,279
And, and to some extent in Europe as
well, uh, if you fly under the minimums,

659
00:36:19,279 --> 00:36:23,930
you fly under radar essentially, because
other government agencies don't actually

660
00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:28,970
check, uh, you know, if you were
shipping like a parcel, it's considered

661
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:32,660
a personal, you know, it's going to
an individual, it's a personal parcel.

662
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,435
FDA actually doesn't look at it.

663
00:36:34,734 --> 00:36:35,154
Mm-hmm.

664
00:36:36,005 --> 00:36:39,275
Which is, uh, good for the brand, but for
the American consumer because, you know,

665
00:36:39,275 --> 00:36:40,535
you don't know what you're putting in your

666
00:36:40,535 --> 00:36:40,835
body,

667
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,020
Yeah.

668
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:42,379
Yeah.

669
00:36:42,379 --> 00:36:42,440
Yeah.

670
00:36:42,605 --> 00:36:46,745
But it kind of depends on, you
know, are you under the minimus

671
00:36:46,745 --> 00:36:48,875
or above the minimus, right?

672
00:36:48,875 --> 00:36:54,545
That's, that's, uh, that's the biggest,
uh, I guess, differentiator whether,

673
00:36:55,174 --> 00:36:57,335
um, compliance is an issue or not.

674
00:36:58,624 --> 00:36:59,615
Yeah, it's an interesting one.

675
00:36:59,615 --> 00:37:02,854
We, in the early days, we used to
ship from Jersey in the Channel.

676
00:37:02,854 --> 00:37:06,274
Islands a small, for those of you
and Dunno, Jersey is a small island

677
00:37:06,274 --> 00:37:09,154
off the north coast of France, which
is kind of independently British.

678
00:37:09,904 --> 00:37:16,055
And um, we shipped from Jersey to the UK
and to Europe, and there was no sales tax.

679
00:37:16,414 --> 00:37:17,569
If the product was like.

680
00:37:18,815 --> 00:37:20,585
Under 20, I can't remember what it was.

681
00:37:20,585 --> 00:37:21,695
Let's say it was 20 pounds.

682
00:37:21,695 --> 00:37:23,915
You know, if the value was under 20
pounds, you didn't have to pay the

683
00:37:23,915 --> 00:37:25,865
sales tax, which in the UK is 20%.

684
00:37:25,865 --> 00:37:27,065
So that's a lot of money, right?

685
00:37:27,065 --> 00:37:28,295
You're, you're saving instantly.

686
00:37:29,105 --> 00:37:33,095
And so what we used to do
was actually, it was cheaper.

687
00:37:33,095 --> 00:37:37,339
I. I dunno if this works and when
you multiply it out, Robert, maybe,

688
00:37:37,490 --> 00:37:44,689
maybe, but when it was cheaper, um,
or it was cheaper to send out three

689
00:37:44,689 --> 00:37:49,759
parcels, but all under 20 pounds than
one parcel with a value of 60 pounds

690
00:37:49,759 --> 00:37:53,750
because of the VAT savings versus the
cost of shipping, if that makes sense.

691
00:37:55,879 --> 00:37:56,599
Yeah, definitely.

692
00:37:56,599 --> 00:38:01,009
And we, we've, you know, uh, a lot of
brands do this kind of optimization.

693
00:38:01,009 --> 00:38:05,629
You even hear, um, which, uh, that,
that, it was pretty shocking to, uh,

694
00:38:05,660 --> 00:38:07,370
discover that that's actually done is.

695
00:38:09,004 --> 00:38:14,104
You know, if you go to a retail chain,
let's say, uh, Nordstrom's in United

696
00:38:14,104 --> 00:38:17,374
States, now I don't, I, if Nordstrom
actually does this, but this, this

697
00:38:17,374 --> 00:38:20,584
is, you know, similar retailer.

698
00:38:20,584 --> 00:38:24,035
You could go and buy, let's
say an expensive purse.

699
00:38:24,064 --> 00:38:31,115
And if it's, uh, uh, let's say it's,
it's an 800 per, if you go, uh, to

700
00:38:31,115 --> 00:38:32,764
Norstrom and it's, it's in stock.

701
00:38:32,825 --> 00:38:35,254
It's in stock, and you get it off
the shelf and you pay for it, you

702
00:38:35,254 --> 00:38:38,254
pay everything right due and taxes,
everything's included in there, you

703
00:38:38,254 --> 00:38:39,664
know, the sales tax calculated on

704
00:38:39,825 --> 00:38:40,245
Mm-hmm.

705
00:38:40,984 --> 00:38:44,974
Uh, but if, if they, if they're out of
stock and they ship it to you, right?

706
00:38:44,974 --> 00:38:47,584
You order it, you go in store and
you're like, I like this person.

707
00:38:47,584 --> 00:38:49,534
Like, we don't have it, but we
can order it for you, right?

708
00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:54,799
And they take your information
and they ship it from their

709
00:38:54,799 --> 00:38:57,710
supplier overseas directly to you.

710
00:38:58,340 --> 00:39:02,090
Now that becomes a de minimis transaction
because it's addressed to an individual.

711
00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:03,290
It's not addressed to Nordstrom.

712
00:39:03,980 --> 00:39:07,880
And you know, it bypasses
duties, it bypasses, uh,

713
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:09,200
even sales tax at that point.

714
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:13,700
Well, maybe not sales tax, but
it does bypass the duties because

715
00:39:13,729 --> 00:39:15,560
now it's shipped from overseas.

716
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,939
It's an international de mini
transaction to the consumer, uh, handled

717
00:39:19,939 --> 00:39:24,709
by a large brand that just bypass
paying duties on the product, right?

718
00:39:24,709 --> 00:39:29,569
So these kind of optimizations, uh,
you know, the more the very organized

719
00:39:29,569 --> 00:39:30,709
companies do this really well.

720
00:39:32,015 --> 00:39:34,654
Uh, and you know what's interesting
in that example is that the

721
00:39:34,654 --> 00:39:35,944
consumer is none the wiser.

722
00:39:35,944 --> 00:39:39,785
The consumer doesn't actually
get passed on the savings, right?

723
00:39:39,814 --> 00:39:44,285
Because they just paid the retail
price that, uh, that was in the store.

724
00:39:44,674 --> 00:39:45,064
So,

725
00:39:45,355 --> 00:39:46,490
That's really interesting.

726
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:46,970
Yeah.

727
00:39:46,970 --> 00:39:47,180
Yeah.

728
00:39:47,295 --> 00:39:50,990
I, I, I'm thinking actually, like with
subscription e-commerce, that's, that's

729
00:39:51,055 --> 00:39:54,174
a really interesting strategy because
you actually know what's getting shipped.

730
00:39:54,615 --> 00:39:57,485
I. When, so if you're shipping
internationally and it's gonna

731
00:39:57,485 --> 00:40:01,355
take a little bit longer to try
and take advantage of the, those

732
00:40:01,355 --> 00:40:06,665
kind of rules, then I suppose you
can plan a bit more ahead of time.

733
00:40:07,325 --> 00:40:07,685
Right?

734
00:40:07,895 --> 00:40:12,365
So, um, 'cause there's, as I know in
the UK there's such a large expectation

735
00:40:12,365 --> 00:40:16,445
on next day delivery because the
in the country is so small, right?

736
00:40:16,475 --> 00:40:18,335
Why would you not get next day delivery?

737
00:40:19,055 --> 00:40:20,735
Of course, if I'm shipping from.

738
00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:22,370
Source.

739
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:26,089
If I'm shipping from say China,
then it's five to six days delivery.

740
00:40:26,089 --> 00:40:26,540
It's not.

741
00:40:26,569 --> 00:40:27,560
It's not next day.

742
00:40:28,129 --> 00:40:32,509
And so that, I think you either do that
on a subscription model where you can plan

743
00:40:32,509 --> 00:40:38,060
ahead of time with the dates or you give,
I suppose, the customer the option if you

744
00:40:38,060 --> 00:40:39,529
want it next day, it's this much money.

745
00:40:39,529 --> 00:40:43,129
If you want it in seven days, it could
be a few, a few pence, less maybe.

746
00:40:43,129 --> 00:40:43,700
I don't know.

747
00:40:43,729 --> 00:40:45,769
It's an interesting problem.

748
00:40:45,814 --> 00:40:46,354
Absolutely.

749
00:40:46,354 --> 00:40:49,774
I think, uh, it's, it's a very
interesting problem and I think all

750
00:40:49,774 --> 00:40:54,845
the, sort of, all the pieces and the
foundation is there to explore it.

751
00:40:56,779 --> 00:40:57,410
Exploit.

752
00:40:57,410 --> 00:40:59,930
Maybe not the good for for
it, but optimize it, right?

753
00:40:59,930 --> 00:41:03,799
Optimize for this stuff, because
this is a huge, this is a strategy.

754
00:41:03,799 --> 00:41:05,779
Could, that, could be, that
could have a huge impact.

755
00:41:05,810 --> 00:41:11,000
Now, you know, the example I always
like, uh, to bring is, uh, you

756
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:16,130
know, uh, especially after COVID,
but even now, if you go on a, uh.

757
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:21,950
Well, let's say a a a a brand website
that sells, you know, furniture

758
00:41:22,070 --> 00:41:26,570
furnishings, uh, you know, let's
say, and none, none come to mind.

759
00:41:26,570 --> 00:41:29,540
But, uh, you know, you,
you select a couch, right?

760
00:41:29,540 --> 00:41:30,200
You like a couch.

761
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,120
You select it and it'll
give you three options.

762
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:32,450
Actually.

763
00:41:32,450 --> 00:41:35,810
You'll say the colors that are available
to ship immediately, colors that

764
00:41:35,810 --> 00:41:39,500
are available to ship in seven to 10
days, and then everything below this,

765
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:42,230
50 colors you can choose is gonna
take two months to get your product.

766
00:41:44,060 --> 00:41:46,790
Uh, and you know, it's obvious, right?

767
00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:49,310
The, the ones that are shipping
immediately, they have them in stock.

768
00:41:49,370 --> 00:41:52,400
The ones that are shipping in seven
to 10 days, it's inventory in transit.

769
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:53,240
They know it's coming.

770
00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:55,490
It's not necessarily in stock,
but they can trace it back

771
00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:57,560
to even to, um, the skew.

772
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,060
That's, uh, an appeal that's in

773
00:41:59,060 --> 00:41:59,480
transit.

774
00:42:00,170 --> 00:42:03,020
And then everything else is essentially
like, you, you, you click this

775
00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:06,650
color, we're actually gonna go
manufacture this thing for you, right?

776
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,250
Uh, and it's, you know.

777
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,330
It makes so much sense that it's
broken down into these three categories

778
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:18,350
and these three shipping timeframes
because, you know, not everybody is

779
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:21,529
urgently wants this couch, uh, right.

780
00:42:21,620 --> 00:42:22,190
People would

781
00:42:22,190 --> 00:42:23,480
rather have the color they want.

782
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:25,250
They don't care if it takes two months.

783
00:42:25,940 --> 00:42:30,230
Uh, so not especially when you get into
bulky items and more expensive items.

784
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:33,259
The, The, sort of instant
gratification thing, it's a

785
00:42:33,259 --> 00:42:36,859
lot, uh, uh, less prevalent than

786
00:42:37,085 --> 00:42:39,424
Well, yeah, there's an expectation
isn't there, that it's gonna take

787
00:42:39,424 --> 00:42:43,085
longer, uh, with a bigger, bulkier
item just 'cause of the shipping.

788
00:42:43,894 --> 00:42:47,075
I've just gone and ordered a new ho
and it's gonna take a week to get here.

789
00:42:47,075 --> 00:42:50,555
And you kind of, a week would be
insane if it was a supplement.

790
00:42:50,644 --> 00:42:55,924
But because it's a ho coming from John
Lewis, you kind of go, well, I, I okay it.

791
00:42:56,464 --> 00:42:57,575
It's big, it's bulky.

792
00:42:57,575 --> 00:42:58,354
We've gotta arrange that.

793
00:42:58,354 --> 00:42:58,595
Right.

794
00:42:59,465 --> 00:43:03,275
So, yeah, so, so with bulky, larger,
expensive items, that's, I think,

795
00:43:03,275 --> 00:43:07,775
uh, the expectations are different
with, uh, after COVID especially.

796
00:43:07,775 --> 00:43:11,105
I think people are used to it and, and
you see more and more brands doing this

797
00:43:11,105 --> 00:43:13,595
with this, these different options, right?

798
00:43:13,595 --> 00:43:16,384
So I think it's become, uh, pretty common.

799
00:43:16,674 --> 00:43:18,174
Uh, people are used to it.

800
00:43:18,174 --> 00:43:20,544
It's not, you know, it doesn't look weird.

801
00:43:20,544 --> 00:43:24,265
It doesn't look out ordinary, it
doesn't look to sort of diminish

802
00:43:24,265 --> 00:43:25,734
the brand's performance anymore.

803
00:43:26,664 --> 00:43:30,354
Um, so I think it's definitely a great
strategy to do that, especially if

804
00:43:30,354 --> 00:43:32,995
you can optimize for, you know, cost.

805
00:43:33,174 --> 00:43:33,475
Right?

806
00:43:34,725 --> 00:43:35,990
It is a really great idea.

807
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:38,120
I, I'm, I'm curious Robert.

808
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,250
Uh, 'cause I don't know the answer.

809
00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:41,750
Now you've got my brain thinking.

810
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:42,049
Now.

811
00:43:42,049 --> 00:43:43,220
It is dangerous.

812
00:43:43,279 --> 00:43:50,450
Uh, really, um, if I'm, let's say I'm
shipping goods to the US and the current

813
00:43:50,990 --> 00:43:53,660
rate, the current level is $800, isn't it?

814
00:43:53,660 --> 00:43:56,299
I think the current de
minimis level is 800 bucks.

815
00:43:58,095 --> 00:44:04,745
Now, is that $800 cost of goods
or is that $800 invoice value

816
00:44:04,805 --> 00:44:06,515
value that the customer has paid?

817
00:44:07,754 --> 00:44:07,975
Uh.

818
00:44:08,404 --> 00:44:13,714
So, so it's invoice value, but uh, with
a nice kick to it so you don't actually

819
00:44:13,714 --> 00:44:15,334
have to include the freight charges in it.

820
00:44:16,745 --> 00:44:17,165
Um,

821
00:44:17,255 --> 00:44:19,595
so invoice value less freight.

822
00:44:20,674 --> 00:44:24,964
yeah, so if you're charging, you
know, if you're charging $790 plus,

823
00:44:24,964 --> 00:44:26,615
you're charging $200 to ship it.

824
00:44:26,975 --> 00:44:30,185
That's not a $990 transaction.

825
00:44:30,185 --> 00:44:31,564
It's a $790.

826
00:44:33,004 --> 00:44:33,904
full under the minimums

827
00:44:34,355 --> 00:44:34,774
Mm-hmm.

828
00:44:34,984 --> 00:44:37,475
you know, uh, is, is, is broken out.

829
00:44:38,285 --> 00:44:43,745
Uh, US and, uh, Europe and uk,
um, are different in that US

830
00:44:43,745 --> 00:44:46,745
doesn't duty, uh, the freight.

831
00:44:48,125 --> 00:44:52,625
Uh, if I'm not mistaken, in UK you
pay, uh, duty based on CIF value,

832
00:44:52,625 --> 00:44:55,325
which is basically cost of goods
plus insurance, plus freight.

833
00:44:55,850 --> 00:44:58,100
In the US you take the
insurance and freight out.

834
00:44:58,939 --> 00:45:02,959
So it's not considered cost of
goods when customs looks at it.

835
00:45:03,454 --> 00:45:03,845
Yeah.

836
00:45:04,250 --> 00:45:07,790
So this is another thing that de
minimis allows you to do is basically,

837
00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:12,410
uh, you know, you break out the
freight, whereas if you sold local

838
00:45:12,410 --> 00:45:16,220
inventory, your landed cost already
includes all of that stuff, right?

839
00:45:16,220 --> 00:45:17,810
So your sell price is much higher.

840
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,000
Your sales tax is much higher.

841
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,500
Your, your everything's much higher.

842
00:45:23,184 --> 00:45:24,124
That's really interesting.

843
00:45:25,024 --> 00:45:28,474
I'm gonna go and investigate, uh, and
have a little think about that because

844
00:45:28,474 --> 00:45:29,944
that seems like an interesting idea.

845
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,380
Like you said, I wouldn't be
surprised if England charges more

846
00:45:33,380 --> 00:45:36,920
because we like to tax everything
to stupid levels, uh, in England.

847
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:37,940
It's just the way it works.

848
00:45:38,419 --> 00:45:42,470
Well, and I mean, at 20, 21%,
that's, that's, uh, that's a huge

849
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:46,129
problem for international trade
because, you know, like international

850
00:45:46,129 --> 00:45:49,370
eCommerce, because you're se you're
selling something that's $10,000.

851
00:45:49,370 --> 00:45:52,640
It shows up at customers country and
then they get a call and they're like,

852
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,171
oh, you have to pay thousand pounds in,

853
00:45:54,530 --> 00:45:55,160
yeah,

854
00:45:55,819 --> 00:45:56,539
in taxes.

855
00:45:56,539 --> 00:45:56,809
Right.

856
00:45:56,809 --> 00:45:58,160
That, that's, it could be quite the.

857
00:45:59,450 --> 00:46:02,629
Well, it is, and it's, I mean, it's
not even on smaller items like I've

858
00:46:02,629 --> 00:46:06,589
ordered a pair of trainers, um, I didn't
realize they were actually shipping from

859
00:46:06,589 --> 00:46:12,799
the us but they were, and I, I had to
pay not only the import duty on those

860
00:46:12,799 --> 00:46:17,419
trainers, but I also had to pay UPS for
handling the, Do you know what I mean?

861
00:46:17,419 --> 00:46:18,200
That they shipped it.

862
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,579
UPS charged me 20 some bucks just to
handle the money, and then somebody

863
00:46:22,579 --> 00:46:25,579
else charged me some money and it, and
I paid the value of the trainers again.

864
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,060
Which I ironically didn't
fit, but I couldn't send back.

865
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:33,080
And so it was just, it was, the
whole thing was a nightmare.

866
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,190
So, um,

867
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,170
it's quite an extraordinary thing when
you, when you, when you go through things

868
00:46:39,170 --> 00:46:40,879
like that, but I, it wouldn't surprise me.

869
00:46:40,910 --> 00:46:42,049
'cause, you know, welcome to Britain.

870
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,450
Um, Robert, while I remember.

871
00:46:45,274 --> 00:46:48,814
Uh, I like to ask my guests for
a question, a question for Matt.

872
00:46:48,814 --> 00:46:53,705
This is a question where, uh, I will
go and answer it on social media.

873
00:46:54,064 --> 00:46:55,325
Uh, I don't answer on the podcast.

874
00:46:55,325 --> 00:46:56,134
This is my little tease.

875
00:46:56,134 --> 00:46:56,765
Ladies and gentlemen.

876
00:46:56,765 --> 00:46:59,734
If you don't follow me on LinkedIn,
come follow me, uh, at Matt Edmundson,

877
00:47:00,125 --> 00:47:03,154
uh, and you'll find the answer to the
question, which Robert is about to ask me.

878
00:47:03,154 --> 00:47:04,564
Robert, what's your question?

879
00:47:06,345 --> 00:47:07,694
Oh, that's, uh, that's interesting.

880
00:47:07,785 --> 00:47:12,765
Uh, lemme think I'm, I'm
keep it conversation.

881
00:47:13,305 --> 00:47:16,545
Um, I'm curious what.

882
00:47:18,590 --> 00:47:26,210
What do you think is the most popular
American item that Brits like to buy

883
00:47:26,914 --> 00:47:27,274
Oh,

884
00:47:28,084 --> 00:47:30,935
that's not, that's a really good question.

885
00:47:30,935 --> 00:47:31,685
How would I answer that?

886
00:47:32,104 --> 00:47:34,654
Uh, I'll answer that, uh,
maybe slightly different ways.

887
00:47:34,654 --> 00:47:36,544
One, from my teenage
daughter's point of view,

888
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:39,939
there.

889
00:47:40,174 --> 00:47:43,354
Certain flavors of m and ms that are
only available in the us, but no, I

890
00:47:43,354 --> 00:47:44,854
will, I will have a think about that.

891
00:47:44,944 --> 00:47:49,354
Um, uh, and uh, um, and I will answer
that question if you'll know I'm gonna

892
00:47:49,354 --> 00:47:53,225
answer that question, come follow me,
like I say on LinkedIn at my Edmundson.

893
00:47:53,225 --> 00:47:57,694
Speaking of contact details and how people
reach you, Robert, how do people find you?

894
00:47:57,694 --> 00:47:59,345
How do they connect with
you if they wanna do that?

895
00:48:00,634 --> 00:48:02,075
Um, real easy.

896
00:48:02,134 --> 00:48:03,944
Uh, freightright.com.

897
00:48:03,964 --> 00:48:06,845
F-R-E-I-G-H-T-R-I-G-H T.com.

898
00:48:07,294 --> 00:48:08,225
Everything's there.

899
00:48:08,314 --> 00:48:11,765
Uh, if you wanna contact me
directly, click on teams.

900
00:48:11,825 --> 00:48:12,964
Uh, click on.

901
00:48:14,134 --> 00:48:17,104
File there and, you know, uh,
send me a message or you can

902
00:48:17,104 --> 00:48:18,575
contact the company directly.

903
00:48:19,234 --> 00:48:22,984
Uh, there's a lot of stuff on the
website about e-commerce, uh, solutions,

904
00:48:22,984 --> 00:48:26,674
international taxation solutions,
and how to sell your vegan, bulky

905
00:48:26,674 --> 00:48:31,805
items internationally, uh, as well
as your traditional logistics, uh,

906
00:48:31,895 --> 00:48:36,665
you know, for, uh, brands that, you
know, import and export commercially.

907
00:48:36,785 --> 00:48:38,285
Uh, all of that information is there.

908
00:48:39,129 --> 00:48:39,740
Fantastic.

909
00:48:39,924 --> 00:48:44,214
We will of course link to Freight
wright, uh, freightright.com in the show.

910
00:48:44,424 --> 00:48:44,995
Notes.

911
00:48:45,024 --> 00:48:49,584
Um, and so if you're listening to this on
the podcast app, just scroll down and just

912
00:48:49,584 --> 00:48:52,854
click the link in the, if you wanna find
out more, just go and click that link.

913
00:48:53,064 --> 00:48:55,734
Of course, you can also be able
to in the YouTube description

914
00:48:55,734 --> 00:48:56,484
if you're watching online.

915
00:48:56,754 --> 00:49:00,205
Uh, and also of course, if you're
subscribed to our Rot Wonderful

916
00:49:00,205 --> 00:49:03,265
newsletter, even if I do say
so myself, uh, you'll find the

917
00:49:03,265 --> 00:49:06,535
information in that as well.

918
00:49:07,220 --> 00:49:09,410
Robert, thank you for joining me.

919
00:49:09,529 --> 00:49:11,479
Uh, I genuinely enjoyed this conversation.

920
00:49:11,479 --> 00:49:15,499
I feel like I've got a few strategies
now, uh, which is always super helpful.

921
00:49:15,979 --> 00:49:19,640
Um, but before you go, before we
sign out, we've started doing this.

922
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,079
Save the best till last thing.

923
00:49:21,319 --> 00:49:27,200
Um, and so I'm curious you, according
to my notes here, um, you started

924
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:32,149
selling newspapers from the age
of nine years old, um, in Armenia,

925
00:49:32,149 --> 00:49:34,039
and then you are now living in la.

926
00:49:34,715 --> 00:49:39,155
You started the logistics company
in the middle of an economic crisis.

927
00:49:39,185 --> 00:49:42,035
'cause, you know, what else are you gonna
do in the middle of an economic crisis?

928
00:49:42,725 --> 00:49:49,385
Um, what's your top tip for, um,
entrepreneurs, whether e-commerce

929
00:49:49,385 --> 00:49:53,645
entrepreneurs or just people in business
generally when things are genuinely

930
00:49:53,645 --> 00:49:59,255
unstable, um, and as they are probably
quite rightly now in the world.

931
00:49:59,345 --> 00:50:02,675
Um, what's your, what's been your
biggest tip as an entrepreneur?

932
00:50:04,914 --> 00:50:09,354
Yeah, I think, uh, you know, there's never
probably a good time to start a business.

933
00:50:09,474 --> 00:50:12,714
Uh, you know, starting in the middle
of a recession, in the middle of a

934
00:50:12,714 --> 00:50:16,674
crisis, in the middle of volatility
seems, uh, very counterintuitive.

935
00:50:16,854 --> 00:50:22,554
Uh, I have discovered, uh, it's not,
uh, I, I've discovered it makes a lot

936
00:50:22,554 --> 00:50:25,404
of sense, uh, because this is where.

937
00:50:25,955 --> 00:50:29,525
People are looking, this is when
people are looking for solutions,

938
00:50:29,585 --> 00:50:29,884
right?

939
00:50:30,154 --> 00:50:34,535
Um, you know, people are dealing with
a lot of issues with a lot of unknowns.

940
00:50:34,595 --> 00:50:40,565
Uh, and, you know, search volumes around
specific things may be higher than usual.

941
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,299
It actually is a great
opportunity to start.

942
00:50:43,870 --> 00:50:49,180
Uh, when I was getting started in
2007, uh, I didn't understand this.

943
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:53,080
Uh, I was doing it because I was
forced to, uh, I couldn't find a job

944
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,940
that paid enough to pay my bills,
so I, I basically jumped into this

945
00:50:57,940 --> 00:51:02,410
entrepreneurship, uh, experiment
a lot sooner than I had planned.

946
00:51:05,134 --> 00:51:11,345
Two, two customers of mine at the time,
basically, uh, their, their, their advice.

947
00:51:11,345 --> 00:51:13,685
So simple was so simple,
it kind of registered.

948
00:51:13,685 --> 00:51:15,904
And I, I always repeat, uh, those two.

949
00:51:15,904 --> 00:51:19,355
One was, uh, if you start in
the middle of a recession, there

950
00:51:19,355 --> 00:51:21,185
is no where else to go but up.

951
00:51:21,515 --> 00:51:21,754
Right?

952
00:51:21,940 --> 00:51:23,110
It's not gonna get any worse.

953
00:51:23,230 --> 00:51:23,620
Uh,

954
00:51:23,834 --> 00:51:23,995
true.

955
00:51:24,289 --> 00:51:24,499
Yep.

956
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:29,230
and then the other one was saying, Hey,
we, we had a meeting, uh, with our board

957
00:51:29,230 --> 00:51:33,340
and we basically decided that we're
gonna participate in the recession.

958
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:33,610
Right.

959
00:51:34,330 --> 00:51:37,450
That's, that's the other one that,
uh, that really stuck, which is,

960
00:51:37,450 --> 00:51:39,400
you know, just, they just, just.

961
00:51:40,879 --> 00:51:43,339
If you truly believe it,
uh, you can play above it.

962
00:51:43,339 --> 00:51:45,560
You don't, you don't need to
participate in the recession.

963
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:45,680
It

964
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,740
doesn't need to be your problem,
especially if you're getting started,

965
00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:51,259
because that's the environment
in which you're getting started.

966
00:51:51,350 --> 00:51:52,970
This is, you know, no surprises.

967
00:51:52,970 --> 00:51:54,109
It's, it's, it's pretty crappy.

968
00:51:54,109 --> 00:51:59,149
So, uh, you know, just, just, uh, make
the best of it and bring real solutions

969
00:51:59,149 --> 00:52:00,649
to the problems and people will.

970
00:52:01,595 --> 00:52:03,124
Yeah, that's top advice.

971
00:52:03,124 --> 00:52:03,784
Top advice.

972
00:52:04,144 --> 00:52:08,075
I do like that because like you say,
in the middle of all the, in the middle

973
00:52:08,075 --> 00:52:13,325
of a recession or when things are
turbulent, um, people are uncertain.

974
00:52:13,325 --> 00:52:15,694
And when people are uncertain,
you've got a tremendous amount

975
00:52:15,694 --> 00:52:17,494
of opportunity, I think.

976
00:52:18,034 --> 00:52:22,924
And I. Figuring out what that is, is,
is a, is not always straightforward,

977
00:52:22,924 --> 00:52:25,624
but I think there is opportunity
there and, and, and finding it

978
00:52:25,624 --> 00:52:27,035
is a, is a, is a great thing.

979
00:52:27,394 --> 00:52:29,495
Robert, listen man, loved
having you on the show.

980
00:52:29,495 --> 00:52:31,055
Thank you so much for coming on.

981
00:52:31,535 --> 00:52:34,595
Uh, it's been a wonderful,
wonderful conversation.

982
00:52:35,044 --> 00:52:37,894
Um, but yeah, and if, like I
say, if you're new to the show,

983
00:52:37,894 --> 00:52:38,705
very warm, welcome to you.

984
00:52:38,705 --> 00:52:41,705
Make sure you like and subscribe and
do all of that really funky stuff

985
00:52:41,734 --> 00:52:44,734
'cause I'll be back again next week
with another fabulous conversation.

986
00:52:44,734 --> 00:52:46,144
But from Robert and from me.

987
00:52:47,255 --> 00:52:48,545
Thank you so much for joining us.

988
00:52:48,545 --> 00:52:50,674
Have a phenomenal week
wherever you are in the world.

989
00:52:51,065 --> 00:52:51,755
I'll see you next time.

990
00:52:52,055 --> 00:52:52,444
Bye for now.