Hello. Thank you so much for listening to the Networking Spark podcast. Excited to jump back in. Really would love you to subscribe, if you don't mind me asking. That's super helpful. And let me know any feedback, too. So today I'm talking to David Brown from Future Hand Media. David also produces and edits this podcast, so it's an absolute pleasure to be speaking to him today. As well as a member of Spark, David really enjoys seeing success, whether it's somebody else's or his own. He's a keen believer that the best way to become successful is to help others, which is really a key part of networking. So let's jump in and talk about everything that makes the man David Brown tick. Because I have a friend that kind of, like, almost coached me, but as a friend and noticed that I was doing that as well. And with enough hanging around that person and the positive reinforcement and, like, they are the complete opposite, as in, they make me sick. The amount of times they give themselves compliments and I'm like, you know, that's. That's how I feel. Because they're like, yeah, brilliant. I'm amazing. And I'm like. But that's my reaction. So, like, it's. Yeah, it's. It's good that you've recognised it and you can. You can turn it around.

Yeah. And I. I think there's a certain amount of. You have to disconnect, sort of, because, I don't know, there's a. On my side, there's a, you know, a bit of Catholic guilt that goes with it as well. So it's all this, oh, you can't beat yourself up. Oh, you need to not have a big ego and blah, blah, blah. But there is a healthy amount where you can be confident and you can have a little bit of ego and. But it's not destructive. It's not destructive to anyone around you. It's not destructive to yourself, but it's enough that it helps move you forward. And again, I was never able to find that balance when I was younger. I was either, you know, I was arrogant and a dick for maybe, you know, maybe for no reason.

Maybe you were defensive, though.

Yeah, I just didn't. I didn't know how to do it. And so, you know, it. It took me a long time, and I think I moved around a lot, and I didn't like a lot of stuff about, you know, when I was younger and how I grew up. And I always. I kind of viewed that as some sort of a negative, like, you know, the world had done me wrong and I had, you know, nothing was my fault and I didn't have any control over it. And it wasn't until I got older that I really realized a. That the coping skills that I'd developed over that time actually gave me a superpower. And so I had to turn that around and start to think about it more as a positive instead of a negative and to figure out how to use that to my advantage. And I think, I don't think school helps you with that either because traditionally, certainly in the US I don't know so much about. It's a little different here. But in the US you know, you're. Everything is about. You have to build up the stuff that you're weak in. So if you're super good at maths and you're no good at art, then they're like, oh, you need to be better at art and you need to be better at language to get those scores up. And it's like, no, what you should be doing is kids that are super good at math, you should be doubling down on the math with them, and kids that are good at English and kids that are good at art or whatever, you should be doubling down on those skills and really going forward and don't worry so much. Yes, there's a minimum level that you need to be at, but they don't need to be experts or anything in those areas. Do you know what I mean? It's like. And so that's what happens. And I think for me, anyway, it just, I never really realized that until I got a bit older and then I was kind of like, actually, you know, the Buddhist concept kind of detachment. I'm like detached from everything, literally. I have no attachment to anything. It's just the way I was raised and how I grew up. And so for a lot of people, they have a lot of attachment and that's a negative. And it, you know, it causes them a lot of pain and a lot of strife, whereas I don't have it at all, which causes potentially pain and strife in the other way, but mainly for other people, because I just don't. I don't even get attached to people. I kind of do now. And I've allowed myself to do that a little bit, seeing as I've been married for 20 years and I have a 17 year old.

Yeah. And I think it's about recognising, getting to a turning point where you recognise that most people are okay and, you know, there still are some horrible people around for sure, but most people are okay. And that's when you can start to kind of soften that side of you up a little bit and feel safe. Because it's, it's all about, like, in yoga. In yoga, we talk about the chakras of the body, and the base chakra is the first one that you would work on. And that's about being safe. And if you don't feel safe, then you cannot grow. And so that's, that's why it's. It, you know, it's such, like, it's your foundations. If you don't feel safe, then, you know, then your growth is stunted.

Yeah, I. And I think the thing for me, though, is that I always felt safe when I was alone. I didn't feel safe with people around.

Yeah.

So, I was constantly pushing people away because my safe place was on my own. So, I was an only child. I was, you know, latchkey kid. My mom, you know, because I was an only child, my mom had to work, you know, I didn't have any choice. So I came home, you know, alone and spent a lot of time alone, you know, when I was very young. And so I think that's just, you know, that that's kind of how I was for a long time. And to feel safe with other people is a different thing for me. And I think that's what I had to learn.

Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people have got it the other way around, as in they cannot spend time by themselves at all. And actually that's something that they need to learn because it's good to be able to be comfortable with yourself and spend time with you. But often it's one extreme to the others with many of us. But yeah, I can name several people that I. That are very close to me, that I know that they like, put. Give them a day where they've got nobody to hang out with, and they're like, ah, you know, don't. Don't know what to do. Can't, you know, don't actually get anything done because they can't stand being by themselves, and they need that constant noise. And also, like, can't just sit there and be comfortable with somebody else always having to fill the silence.

Yeah. And it's in my experience that's how you know you're in a good relationship with someone is when you can just sit in quiet and you don't feel like you have to talk. Sorry. I apologise for my voice. I don't know. It's very. It's very croaky today.

But was it all that whiskey last night.

I wish. No, I've been staying in and not doing anything because I injured my foot the other day and. And it's been terrible. And I've got to go to London tomorrow for this awards thing, and I've really been worried because I don't want to end up limping, you know, by the time the evening comes around, I don't want to go in hobbling around. So I've just been really, really cautious about trying to walk as little as possible. So I've not. I've not done anything.

That's okay.

Nothing exciting.

It's good to rest sometimes. So. Yeah, I would. I would, really. We've gone off tangent here, so I would really like to use what you just did, what you just said on the podcast, if we can cut it up a little bit.

Sure.

Because I think that was quite powerful.

Let's just keep going.

Let's just keep going. That's my thoughts too. Yeah, good stuff. So. So do you think, David, that the reason you are really good at tech and IT and AI is? Has anything to do with your upbringing, bringing up all of that time of being alone?

No. And I. Because we never had any money, so I never had any tech when I was a kid. I was, you know, I mean, I was born in 69, so I'm the last of the 60s. And when I grew up, I mean, we barely had a TV, much less anything else. And no, I didn't have any tech or anything, but again, I was, you know, one of the generation. I think my high school in like 1980, I don't know, three, probably was the first high school in the city that had any computers. And it was amazing to us. You know, we just. It was the coolest thing ever. And you know, we'd had some of the really early video games and stuff like that. And again, I never. I never could afford them myself. So I always go over to a friend's house and we'd play Pong or Asteroids or, you know, one of those super old, super, super simple games that you can, like, you can run on your watch now. I mean, it's mad, but that, that was like the, you know, that was like a whole new world and. And it was really, really interesting. And so I think I've always been naturally curious about tech and that sort of thing. And, you know, I helped my grandfather at his bicycle. He used to own a bicycle shop. And we got an old. What was it? An IBM 8088, for any of your older Listeners out there, might remember what that is.

But we had a Commodore 64.

Yeah, I had a Commodore 64 as well. Yep. Man, I wish I still had that thing. Great. Just to play with. And the clicky keys. Anyway. Yeah. And, you know, I helped him set up his inventory system on an old, you know, on a. On a PC. And so I've always been interested in it, but it, you know, I don't. I just think it was that particular time in history that there's a lot of us out there that are, you know, now in our mid-50s to, you know, mid-40s and a little bit younger who were right there at the beginning. We were teenagers, early teens, right at the time computers came in. And so it had a massive, massive effect on us. And so I think just my interest has just been because of that. It wasn't anything in particular for my upbringing other than just timing, I think.

Do you think you have to have a certain type of brain as well to get your head around tech?

No, I think you just have to. You have to have an interest in it. And if I as with anything, right, if, you know, if I want to. If I was in, like, I have no skill in pottery, but if I was interested in pottery, then I would sit around, and I would do it, and I would play with it, and I would read about it and I would, you know, do all this stuff and I would. I would get better at it just by putting in time. And tech is the same. If, you know, if you want to be better at using tech, then you have to use tech. And you, I mean, you need a.

Whole bundle of patience.

You need some patience. And the other. But the great thing now is that you can learn anything that you want to learn on YouTube.

True.

Literally anything. There's. There are videos telling you exactly how to do it. And it's so much better than a book. I mean, I remember having to literally go to the library to, you know, to get a book to learn about how to do something. And check it out now. Literally, you can just look on your phone, and you can, you know, watch a few videos. I mean, that's how. When I got started doing video editing and everything, I just started watching YouTube videos and like, okay, what software should I use? And so I watched a bunch of videos, and I said, it seemed like, you know, Adobe was the thing to use. So I was like, okay, great, I'm going to get Adobe. So I got Adobe, and then I found some guy that, you know, I liked, and I got on with how he taught. And so I started following what he did in his videos, and I would download his sample videos, and I would try to do the stuff that he was doing, and I would work along together with it. It turns out now the guy's a friend of mine. I actually know him from the podcast show. He. He does work for me. I've met him. I've met his family. Like, he's a friend now, which is amazing. That's also. That's a whole nother thing. But. But yeah, you know, today you can do anything you want. Yeah. Put the time in.

I mean, who needs to parent anymore?

Well, it's funny that you say that because my son and I don't think he would find me saying this, but he had a really great teacher in secondary school, math teacher, and I don't remember, but he went from one year to the next, and that teacher didn't teach the class anymore. And he began to str. This was before GCSEs. And he began to struggle because he didn't get on with the way the new teacher taught. And I, I said to my son, I'm like, look, well, you've got to sort it out. You know, you have to pass the test, and it's up to us to help you. And I said, what you should do is go on YouTube, look up the subjects that you know that you're going to be tested on, and then find a teacher that you can get on with who teaches it online. And I said, I guarantee you there will be some teacher that teaches the curriculum and teaches all those concepts that you need to know in a way that you can understand it. And that's what he did. And he did. He. Eventually, it took him. It took him a good couple of weeks, but then he came back, and I was like, you know, how's it going? Have you found someone? He's like, yeah, I found this guy. He's really good. He explains everything. I totally understand when he's what he's asking. So he was able to do not just pass, but to do well on his mass part of his GCSEs, because he found some videos because he just didn't get on with the teacher. And so, you know, even our kids can use the Internet in a positive way and can go out and, you know, maybe engage with teachers that they maybe. That they don't get on with at their schools, yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. I love it. It's so cool. That's such a good tip.

Such a Good tip. Because the teacher is everything often. And the subjects that kids really thrive in and do well in, they always put it down to their teacher, and I do as well. But like, so empowering to know, actually. And a great tip. And I wish I'd have thought of this for my daughter when she had numerous maths teachers that. And none of them were. That's the thing with maths teachers, is like something my son said once. He's like, mom, if you could have an English teacher teach maths, then it would be so much better because. Because they tend to have people skills, and often, someone that's got very logical maths brain is not so good at actually putting it across because it perhaps doesn't have so many people skills. So, good point. So, let's talk about podcasting right now. Right now, I've got a very make do setting because we weren't even ready to podcast, but we just started having a conversation, and now we're podcasting. So this is my home setup at the moment, and I've got much to improve, 100%. When we began the networking spark, which you are producing for me, we began in a studio, and personally, I've absolutely loved that experience. Cameras are there, studios there. I can just relax, and I know that you're going to do the hard stuff, and I just have to focus on the conversation, which is great. But now, just shifting to doing this on a home setting has made me think, well, what's best, studio or home setting? Obviously, there's a few things I want to improve here. As in, my daughter has nicked my lights to go in to go and take pictures of her clothes that she wants to sell on vintage. She was about to go and get it for me, but then we jumped on the call, and it still hasn't appeared. Funnily enough, a teenage girl. She is. What are your thoughts on the studio setting or the home setting with people in general? Yeah, with the podcast, like the do-it-yourself setting or the slick sort of studio setting, do you think it makes a difference?

I think the sounds is most important. No, I take that back. The story is most important. So the story, the interview, the conversation, that. That is the most important. People will forgive bad sound, they'll forgive bad video, they'll forgive no video. You know, all of that goes by the wayside. If it's an engaging, hopefully, this is engaging. If it's an engaging conversation or if you're doing like a solo show, if you've got a good script and you know what you're saying is engaging and interesting. After that, then sound is your next most important thing. And again, people will forgive a lot of bad video. But if you've got a great video and terrible sound, it's. They're still going to switch off. So sound is probably your most important thing after you know just what you're doing. And then, of course, you can have nice video. And there's a million different ways to do it. But know at the minute, like you, you have a decent microphone, your sound is okay. So, you know, I think for most people at home, you just want to have good sound and a nice quiet spot that you can sit down if you want to do video.

Everything. This microphone, though, it does. It picks up the dogs barking downstairs. It picks up people that I've told don't call me because I'm doing a podcast. It picks them up, forgetting and going, mom picks up absolutely everything. That's the only problem. But carry on. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, no, no, that's fine. But that's a good microphone. That's what good microphones do. They all pick up everything. Those quiet noises in the background that you hear in your headphones and that do come through on the microphone. Those are quite easy to take out in post-production. So even though you can hear them doesn't mean they're going to come across in the recording. And again, it depends on how much budget you have and how much tolerance you have for pain and technology and how complicated you want your setup to be. But there are some tools that you can get and you can use that. Even though you can hear it in your microphone, it won't come through on the final recording because it will filter it out before it even records it, which is what you get in, like a radio studio. So, in a radio studio, you have all this stuff. There's constantly paper shuffling and people doing all sorts of stuff in the background, but you don't hear it because there are systems. Just unless it's the voice directly in the microphone, you don't hear it. So again, simple. Just spend £100 on a microphone. I would say at £100, you can probably get a really decent microphone. So, find the best microphone. You can. Just go on Amazon. You can buy 100% of the stuff that you need on Amazon. Go on Amazon, you know, look at some reviews, look at the best microphone, maybe watch a couple YouTube videos, find you know, what's going to be best for you.

Sure.

And then just get that one and plug it in.

But And I'm going to give a big but here, my argument about doing it yourself, for me personally. Now, people would say that. A lot of people would tell me I am very, very, very patient in terms of how I deal with people. In terms. Are you laughing? I don't know why that's a straight face. In terms of teaching yoga to children, teaching. A lot of people say patience is one of my biggest skills, but when it comes to tech, no, like I've got no patience whatsoever with tech. I think going back to what we were talking about earlier, I don't find it interesting and I find it annoying and frustrating and really boring. So, for me personally, although I learned how to edit a podcast when I learned how to do it, I went, there's absolutely no way I'm going to be doing that.

Yeah.

And so that's when you came on board, and I was like, thank goodness I found somebody who enjoys doing it. So for me personally, yes, doing a podcast from home is doable, but I need somebody like yourself to do all of the techie bits afterwards.

Yeah. And look, there's a lot of people are like that, you know, and that, that's why I have a job. Right. Because a lot of people want help with it and a lot of people don't, or a lot of people want to start themselves. And then what they realise is it is a lot of work. And until you sort of develop your skillset, until you get to a point that you can do that stuff fairly quickly and you have better equipment and you know, the better equipment actually means that you, it takes less time to edit because you don't have to go through and fiddle around with getting all the background noise out because it does it for you, you know, it's fine. But the thing is, is even if somebody does that, if somebody just wants to record a podcast and they want to do an audio-only podcast, just get a good microphone, sit in a quiet place, open up, you know, on A Mac, it's QuickTime. I don't know, you know, I don't know what it is on Windows Media or something. Just open it up and hit record, and talk. And when you get done with the file, you know, there's some free AI tools that you can use or very low cost AI tools that you can put it online. If you've got decent, somewhat decent sound to start with, it'll be fine. That's probably all you need. If you have a lot of background noise or you've got something really weird, it's not going to work. So you're going to need to send it to a person who can do sound and try and fix it as much as possible. But, you know, 90% of the time, you know, people can probably sort it out if that's all you want to do. If you want to get into adding video to it, that's a whole nother, I would say a whole nother layer of pain because then you have, you know, there's a whole load of other things to consider. So now you need lights, and you need to make sure that you're in a place that looks okay in the back. And it could be like the wall you're sitting in front of that's perfectly good. Like you don't need to have some fancy. I mean, I'm sitting in my office, you know, and I've got my sound stuff like, it doesn't matter, no one cares. I think that's the thing.

The funny thing is, is that when you are sat where you are now with you, and you're hiding all of the name tags underneath the ribbons, it looks like a bookcase, and you've got loads and loads of books behind you, but when you move your head, you're like, oh, actually those are. Yeah, those are name badges.

A lot of people think they're. They're like running medals, which is fine. I'm quite happy if people think that. That's because I've been in loads of races. But no, it's just a bunch of industry events, and I have about three times that many at home.

Would you call yourself a conference junkie?

Not a junkie. I've just; I've worked in commercial roles for. And professional services roles for the better part of 30 years, I guess, in the UK and a lot of times, you know, you need to. You need to go to shows to go along with that. And so, yeah, I've been to a lot of shows.

How old do you feel?

I feel about 23.

You're slightly young. Slightly younger than me then, but yeah, about 27.

Yeah. I don't know why people settle, but I think everybody settles at some mental age, and that's. From that point forward, that's how old you see yourself. And then that will always be how old you are in your head to yourself. Regardless of what happens to your body or anything else, it's you just. And I don't know why people set it different numbers, but it's usually in your 20s somewhere and, and that's it. And then maybe that's the day you feel like you're an adult and, you know, or the year you feel like you're an adult and then in your own head, and then so you kind of just go, okay, well, that's me as an adult. And then you just associate with that. I don't know. That's. That's an interesting question.

I don't think it is, personally, because I think I didn't feel like an adult until I. When I. Oh, actually, thinking about it, I was about to say I didn't feel like an adult until I had children, and that was age 28. So. Yeah, maybe. Maybe, Maybe you're right, actually.

Pretty close.

I think it's kind of like, for me, it's wishful thinking. Would you, if you had the, the. If you're able to. This thing that everybody says, would you like to go back to being that age, knowing what you know now?

100%. Yeah, 100%.

I think life is cruel. I think we should start old and then get younger.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we kind of. It's kind of a bell curve, isn't it? So you start off, you can't do anything for yourself. You can't talk very well. You can't, really. You need help with everything. And then you get super independent and you raise kids and everything. And then as you go down the slope on the other side, you end up needing help from everybody, and you can't talk, and you can't, you know, you can't do anything by yourself. So. Yeah, I don't know. I, I. Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure somebody's done. I'm sure there's some psychology research out there on it somewhere. But it just seems to me that, you know, just when I talk to people about it, most people, it seems to be at some point in your 20s, and I'm just guessing that maybe that's when you finally feel like an adult. But then, like, I don't know how old you. I mean, maybe when you had kids that it's so. You said when you had kids, you felt like an adult. But some days, I still don't feel like an adult.

That's a good thing, though. I think that. I think you've got a playful side to you. You've got a very amused look in your eyes quite often, and I like that. Like, there's, like, a spark of, like, mischief in your eyes sometimes. I've noticed. And I think that's fun. I think that just. It just shows that you've got a bit of fun within you. Which is cool. So welcome to Spark, by the way.

Thank you.

One question I like to ask: I'm going to actually merge an onboarding call here with our conversation. One thing I love to ask Spark members when they come on board is where do you want to be in 5 years' time? What do you want to be when you grow up? David?

That's a good question. I don't want to grow up. I think that's the first point which gets back to the Spark. I mean, I think, I think as long as long as someone tries to keep that youth alive in your head and how you are, then hopefully you can keep that. So I would like to, and I'm not really being funny in a way. I don't ever want to feel like I've grown up. I want to, I want to try and keep the youth as much as, and as long as I possibly can. But where do I, where do I want to be in five years? I think we talked about this, you know, maybe a few days ago, but I think one of my long term goals is I would like to have my own studio. I think it would be; I'd really like to do it because I like to help people and I like doing my job. Like, I hate just a core commercial sales role because I'm not actually helping anybody even. And I know everybody will say, oh no, but you're helping the people. You're selling them stuff that's going to help them. No, I'm not. I'm just selling them stuff because that's what people pay me to do most of the time. You know, most salespeople aren't actually selling anything. They're not helping that person. What they're doing is they're helping that company, you know, that that person works for. And I, I really enjoy helping people. And so I get the feeling that having in my own studio, I'd be able to work with people like you who are trying to grow, you know, you're trying to have your own show. You want a studio that you can record and you want somewhere that's, you know, that's nice, that's comfortable. You can come in, you can sit down, you know, you can come in and maybe have a little bit of Prosecco and relax with a guest and have a nice chat and then kind of come in, and all the stuff is set up, and it's a nice environment, and I want people to have a really nice experience and I want you to be able to sit down, to have a chat with someone or to come in and record your message or to do your solo show or whatever it is, come in, have that nice experience and then take that off, which then goes and actually helps somebody do something or it entertains someone. And I think that's really why I want to, why I want to do the studio bit. And so that's, that's my long-term ambition. I'm doing things, you know, I'm applying for some grants here and there and I don't really expect that I'll get the first ones. I'll have to figure it out over time and, you know, get better at doing the applications and maybe finding the right grant money and if I can, you know, get a couple of, a couple of big customers maybe who are, you know, paying a decent retainer and I'm doing a lot of work for, then that also gives me a steady revenue stream that's coming in and I know that I'll be able to afford it and maybe I can take a loan. But in five years, that's really where I'd like to be now, where that studio is. I kind of always thought, I like, I like it, I like the area down here, and I always thought that Tunbridge, of all places, would be a really good place to have one. And that's only because there's like six train lines that come into Tunbridge and so it's very easy to get to from anywhere around the entire southeast. So not only can you get here from London in 45 minutes basically, but you could get there from pretty much anywhere around the area on public transport, or you can drive straight there, and it would be easy to access. So that's my vi. That's my vision, that's where I'd like to be.

I predict that's going to happen in less than five years.

I hope so. I would like it to. And I'm making more and more contacts and more and more friends, and you know who. Don't worry, it's fine. That's life.

I'm so loud in my ear. It's live.

And that's what people like about podcasts, by the way, is it's just we're not doing a broadcast, we're not in a broadcast studio, we're not BBC, where this is a real conversation, and that's.

With life happening everywhere. Yeah, exactly.

It's perfect. So, yeah, anyway, yeah, that's.

I just, just, sorry, not going away from what you were saying, but I just had visions of, you know, when we first went into Covid, and people were having their first experiences on Zoom. And you're finding kids getting into trouble with their teachers because they had parents behind them, like wearing nothing and. Or. Or people. Yeah, all sorts of things happening. It's hilarious. It happened in our house once, actually, on a very hot day when I was just wearing a bikini, and I had an embarrassing email from the teachers saying, Mrs White, you didn't realise that everybody can see you. And I really didn't.

Anyway, that's all right.

The real life.

Exactly. Could have been worse.

Yeah. Yeah. So I like. I really like that vision and that goal because it lights you up when you talk about it, and it's really achievable, I think, and I'd really love to. Yeah. To see that and to help that to happen for sure. And I think it would just really suit you as well. However, if we turn back to what we were saying before about you being most happy being in your own company alone, is that still the case now? Because running a podcasting studio, you would be constantly having people coming in and out and constantly being in company. So, how would that feel?

Ah, but that's different. Those are people that are just passing through. That's not someone who's permanent kind of in my life, if you know what I mean. And that's the difference, I think. I'm. I'm hugely sociable, and I've. I've taken personality tests. My wife swears that I'm an extrovert, but I'm not. I'm actually slightly introverted, but I'm right on the border in the middle, so I do. And, you know, this, like, I like going out. I love talking to people and all that kind of stuff, but I keep them at arm's length, so I don't let them get close. So I'm still on my own, even though I know people and I like to talk to people. And I mean, I'm from the south in America, and we are super friendly. We're like, probably some of the most friendly people around, and we like to flirt just to get through the day. It doesn't mean anything, but it just, you know, there's. There's this kind of low level of flirtation that happens all the time, and it, you know, everywhere you go, the girl behind the counter at the gas station or, you know, whatever. And none of it means anything, but it just makes everybody's day nicer to just kind of go through life that way.

That's that spark of mischief in your eyes that I'm talking about then, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. And it's, you know, and. And people love that. And. And even here, people, you know, they react to it most. You know, sometimes people get a bit weird or whatever, and I have. I've toned it way back because I have to because it's England, and people are different, but just being nice and having a chat with people and stuff, you know, does that. Anyway, to answer your question, the. I would love that there's like, you know, all sorts of different people coming in. They're doing different things, they've got different shows, they're bringing in people, and I'm meeting those people as well. And, like, I love all that kind of stuff. But then again, I go home at night and, you know, I ride a motorcycle and like, the time on the bike is. It's precious to me because it's me in my head, and no one can talk to you. Like, you can't think about anything else. You're just. You have to be focused on what you're doing. And. And it's my time alone. And I really like that. So that's the. That's the difference between the two is. Yeah. So, like, oh, in the mornings, I go and work in a coffee shop every morning, and I love sitting there. I like the stuff going on around me, but then I have my headphones in, so it just dulls the noise a little bit. But I like all the. I like the people walking around and I like the different noises and all that because it helps me feel. It helps me be a little bit more creative. But again, I'm not interacting with anyone. I'm not letting anyone in. No one's in my space, and certainly no one's in my personal kind of thing, but I think that's the difference.

Interesting. You know, psychoanalyse, Like, I'm a little near. I'm a little bit the same as. I know I shouldn't be reflecting it back on myself, but, like, you're bringing back memories of when. When kids were really tiny, I got into running and similar feeling to you, like being out on your motorbike. People like, don't you find running boring? And I'd be like, no, it's. It's like it's my time. And I would do all my best thinking when I was running and have these downloads of ideas. Oh, my Lordy, somebody's just come to join our podcast. Let me show you. You're not allowed up here. Who's let you? Hello, this is Snowy. Hello. Right now, I'm not gonna get any peace. I'm gonna have someone in my own space. We'll see how the rest of this goes.

Anyway, you realise this will be the most popular episode because you showed the dog.

Because I got Snowy in it. And in a minute, he's gonna start going through this room and finding treasure and eating it. Own your success with a Spark franchise opportunity. Are you looking to own a thriving business that sparks success? Could you be a good fit to run a Spark network? Join a proven and innovative business model that empowers entrepreneurs to flourish in the dynamic world of networking. Why choose a Spark franchise? But it's a business ready to go with an established brand benefit and credit success. There is ongoing support with training, admin assistance and continuous support for your franchise. Own a piece of business networking market in your designated area. Tap into a lucrative industry and expand your business as a part of a trusted network ready to ignite your entrepreneurial journey with the Spark franchise. Visit sparkbusinessnetworking.co.uk to learn more about this exciting opportunity. I thought that was a rural grant.

No, the one that I applied for was simply business, and they're an insurance company, they do small business insurance, and they had this grant, and I think because I got my insurance from them, I'm on the mailing list, and then they came out with it and I just put. I put it in and I put it in to get started with a studio in Tunbridge. So in theory, if best case scenario, or well, maybe not, but best case scenario with the grant is they come back mid November and say you've made the short list. If they come back and say I've made the shortlist, I suspect that, at the same time, they'll want to see a business plan. So, at that point, I'll need to put a proper business plan together and a proper pitch, and then I suspect that they'll want to hear the pitches and the business plans and stuff from the from the finalists, and then they'll make a choice. So if I won that, that would be 25 grand, and that would get me, you know, a couple of cameras. So sort of enough camera kit to get going and it would get me, you know, enough. That would be enough to fit out a small studio with a couple of cameras, decent lenses, a few lights, repainting, kind of doing some minor decorative sort of stuff and building it out to be a bit of a studio in there. It'd probably feel a bit like Callum's. It wouldn't feel like the Tyx studios and the kind of proper studios, the big studios that I've Been in. But it would be good enough, and it would, you know, definitely be better than anybody could do at home.

Yeah.

And that's the key, right? It has to be better than anything that you could do yourself. So. Yeah, you know, that's the whole point of going there.

Yeah.

And then over time, I would be able to just invest in it and build it up and add more stuff and, you know, have more props and have, you know, three different kinds of areas. I could have three different looks and feels depending on which way we want to shoot and all the different stuff. So I could build that up over time. But that would be the hope you win. That's what I'd use the money for.

That'd be great. That'd be so, so good. So good. And I can really picture you doing it. And I can picture there being a cafe at the front as well.

There certainly would be a green room area. I would definitely want that. I think having that extra space because the studios that go in London, I'll have that, you know. So, like, if you came to the London studio, it'd be like there's an area out in the front, there's a couple of offices, there's some small spaces. You could work and take phone calls. But they've got coffee machines and everything and sofas and a big kitchen table and like a big open area. So as you're waiting, you know, there's a nice comfortable place for you to be, and you can kind of do stuff. And then you come into the studio, and it's all like. But it's like a purpose-built thing as opposed to the one that we go to normally is kind of. They repurposed an office, like a boardroom basically to turn that into the studio space.

Yeah.

So. And I suspect where it will start, sorry, just to jump in, is in the, the basement of the building that I'm in now. There's a small room that would be perfect for a small two-person studio. Maybe they could do two or three people, is probably it. But. And the ceilings are quite low. But it has an extra room that has a kitchen already in it. So we could put a fridge, you know, like a mini fridge in there. So we could have stuff for teas and coffees and all that. And it has a space that would be really nice that you could use as a green room. And I could put like a makeup table and some lights and stuff in there. So if women wanted to touch their makeup up or do anything like that, they could do that or have an Area they wanted to change, they could change clothes, and I could have it just screened off. So, you know, it would obviously be private. And then, you know, there's plenty of room for this sort of the production desk and all that. And then a studio problem with that.

It is that you've got the council involved, and that means it will take years and years and years. Right.

Well, it's, it's not the council; it's the company that runs the co-working space. And so they had originally said I could have it and then they said, no, you can't have it. And then now they've come back and said I can have it again.

So here you go, take it away. There you go.

Yeah, yeah, kind of. But it's a, the biggest issue with this building is it's a, it's a grade two listed building. So if I wanted to do anything, even in that room in the basement, it still has to be approved and whatever. So you have to be really careful with what you do. So I can't just go in and randomly paint the walls. Like I can't paint the ceiling black if I want to. So I'd have to find a way around that. And there is a way around it. But yeah, anyway, I suspect that might step one and if that would be step one, then that would be great because you could come here and record, and you wouldn't have to go to Bromley; you could just come to Tunbridge Wells. You could have your people come here. It's a nice place to go if they wanted to go and, you know, have a nice drink or they wanted to go. And you know, there's. The penthouse is really nice. It's a, you know, five, ten minute walk away and it's a, it's quite a nice place to be anyway. And you know, if I had a small studio, that'd be the way to start and to kind of build up the business a little bit and then move into a larger space. But.

Okay, we'll see.

Fingers crossed.

A big believer, right in, as you know, in setting goals, and you have your small goals, and then you have your bigger goals. And although the bigger goals are like this, sometimes it can make people feel overwhelmed because, like, it's like, oh, that's. There's so much to do before I get there, but actually, just by having it there in the horizon. Bless you. All the time. And just taking little steps towards it. So I'd love to encourage you to, like, put that onto our WhatsApp group every single week as the goal and and perhaps taking, you know, just. Just so it's always there. I'm also a big believer in having vision boards. Have you ever made a vision board?

No, I've never really got on with doing, like, vision boards and stuff.

Why?

I don't know. I don't know.

Is it all pretentious? Why? Be honest.

No, I. I don't know. I mean, I have. In a way, I have vision boards, but I use Pinterest for that.

That's okay. You can. You can Pinterest.

You should go check out my Pinterest. I used to have 10,000 followers on Pinterest.

Wow. What's on there? Motorbikes?

No, everything. Typography, logo design. Office design, Studio design. Yes. There's motorcycles, there's some airplanes. There's. There's all sorts of random stuff. There's men's fashion, there's women's fashion. There's all sorts of stuff on there that just stuff. Random stuff that I like. But if you wanted to. Whenever I work with a designer, I always send the designer to my Pinterest and go, right, if you want to see what my style is like, go look at my Pinterest.

However, the only thing about a digital kind of thing like that is that you do have to go and switch it on to look at it. Whereas with a vision board or one that you've created digitally and then you've printed it off if you have that on your wall in your office so you look at it every day and therefore that vision, that goal is always in your mind, I do believe that you will achieve it faster.

Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point. Fine. Fine.

Yes, do it.

Maybe I'll have a go. Yeah, I'll actually have to dig my, like, a. My printer is out of a box somewhere, and see if I can.

You can use my printer to send it to print for you. Yeah. Or may. What I think is a lovely thing to do is in that time between Christmas and New Year where a lot of people just get full of food and get a little bit lethargic, I think that's a really perfect time to make a vision board. And over the years, I've done it with my kids as well. And it's like a time to kind of dream and think about, you know, what you really want to create for the next year. And because you've got that extra bit of time, it's like, oh, okay, I can make a vision board, and I can be creative and make it look nice, but you're techie rather than creative. So that might be.

I'm going to be busy editing your podcast, Jess.

That'S just an excuse. You're procrastinating. David. So. Or Dave. What do you prefer? Dave or David?

I don't care. Whatever.

All right.

Literally, you can call me anything as long as it's nice.

You know, what I realise is that we've both got colours for our surnames. I mean, I know it's obvious, but when you see the names next to each other, It's. Yeah, yeah, Mrs. White.

Mr. That's it.

Anyway, excuse the, the noisy children in the background.

So we've talked, we were going to talk about networking.

Yeah, we've talked about goals and the past, the future and the present and the past. So talking about networking, tell me about your experiences with networking. Has it opened doors for you before?

Always, I think, as with most of the people I think that are in the networking group because we all already understand the power of networks. But yeah, of course, I mean, it's really interesting and the story may not be relevant or not, but it feels relevant to me. With all this stuff lately, in the past, I guess, decade, with everybody talking about privilege and all that, what I realised is that actually what, personally, I don't think it's, and this may be slightly controversial, but I don't think in the UK anyway, it's not so much about race, but it's about class. And I think there's a middle-class privilege that people have. And really, what that is is your network. So it's. My son has opportunities that other kids don't have because of the network that I have through business. And so it's not just a network for me, but it's also a network for my family. And it's a network for everything that I try and do. So all of the people that you meet and all of the people that you keep around you and that you stay in touch with and all that sort of thing. And it's not in a selfish way because I absolutely want to help them as well, so if there's anything I can do. You know, a lot of Aidan's friends, I help his friends. I've helped them get jobs, I've helped them do stuff. We go, and if they need rides, we pick them up. One of his friends had a really hard time with his parents, and he was in a bad situation. I wouldn't need to say any more than that, but we like hopped in the car, went and picked him up. And that's just that's network. It takes a village. And you know, I know Hillary famously said that and all that is is a network. You know, that village is a network I was involved in. So, when I when I first moved to the UK, I worked for like a credit card software company. But very quickly, once, once I left that company, I ended up working in digital marketing and advertising and ad tech. And I eventually set up the largest ad tech networking group in the world. And we had 3,700 members. Wow. Just before COVID and, we had a monthly meetup, and we had 300-plus people signing up for the meetup every month. It was crazy. We had meetups at Facebook and places like that. And it got to the point where it was like unwieldy. There were so many people coming, and we had to start kind of cutting off the numbers, and you know, it's kind of first come, first serve thing for people to come around. And almost every job I've had in the UK I've got through my personal network. I've got it through people that I know, you know, through people that I've worked with, you know, clients. And I think that's, you know, the magic of networking. Yeah, it's really the most important thing. And it's another reason. No, it's not a reason. It's a, it's a positive side effect of my sort of southern being nice to everybody and trying to be kind to everybody as well is that I, I like to think at least that there aren't too many people that, you know, that I have are enemies, let's say. So I might have a bunch of people that are neutral towards me, but I don't have a lot of enemies either. And so, you know, I'm very careful to try and not burn a bridge to try and just keep that network as big as possible.

Yeah, it's important. I've heard somebody who's a bit of an influencer say that they put their children in private school, and the only reason they put them in private school was for the network. Yeah, hanging. And more so for him actually hanging around with, well, to-do people.

Not a bad idea. Not a. It's not a bad idea, honestly. And look, you know, I, I think, you know, the expression that, you know, you become like the five people that you hang around the most or spend the most time with, and that's your network. And the closer your network is and the people that you keep around you, you know, it's hugely important who you keep around you and the more positive people you keep around you and the more people that are pushing and the more people that want to grow, and if that's what you want to do, you need to be around those people. And it's not even that they, it's not even that we do anything particularly for each other. It's just being in an environment that you feel safe in that environment because you're like, okay, these people have the same goals that I have. So if I do something or I say I'm working at 10:00 at night, they're not going to go; what's wrong with you? Why are you working at 10:00? What's, you know, you weirdo, you should be relaxing. No, because they're working at 10 o'clock and we're all working at 10 o'clock or 11 or 12. I think you and I have sent messages back for back and forth at probably 11, 11:30 at night.

And I'm also doing at 4:30 in the morning as well.

Yeah, you do it a bit earlier than me in the morning, I have to say, but always. But it's that environment, right. And it makes us feel comfortable that we're around it. And I think, you know, again, that's why that network is so important of having those people around. So, yeah, I'm totally not surprised. It's the reason why you go to a good uni. It's the network that you build from, you know, the people that you meet at university. And you know, we all go out, and we all have loads too much to drink, and we party too much and whatever, but we learn to find our way. But it's those people that we met. Yeah, exactly. And those become our network. And that's why, you know, people want to go to Harvard, and they want to go to Yale, and they want to go to Stanford and they want to go to Oxford, and they want to go to Cambridge is because the people that you meet there are going to, you know, become your network as you get older and they can bring you advantages.

And I've got to big up Spark here a little bit because one thing like I've loved with Spark is seeing the people that we attract that come in and very early on in Spark's creation, somebody Nick to name the group the High Vibe Tribe. And it's true. And I think because of coming from being a yoga teacher, which I still am into, into Spark, creating Spark, always trying to keep the vibration high and to keep everyone on this kind of not positive, fake. Because there is, there is fake Positive. Right. So you're not just going to be like fakely positive all the time, but to choose, you know, to choose the, you know, the, the level, but the level of vibration between people to keep that energy high really makes a difference. It really does. And if you've, if you surround yourself, if one person within a group is doing that, then, then it rubs off on others. And I just think it's really important rather than being around people that want to moan about, you know, oh, I've got to go to work, I don't want to, you know, all of this stuff, it's, it's, that brings you down. But when you were around a group of entrepreneurs that, what about this idea? What about this? You know, it just rubs off and I, I think it's just a great environment to be in.

Yeah. 100.

Yeah.

And it's what I like most. And, and you know, I've sort of watched Spark from the outside for probably six months, seven months before I got involved. Really is what I like about it is that's different from other networking groups is that you encourage everybody and everybody is pretty open with goals, and everybody keeps each other accountable, but not in a parental way, but more in a friendly way. And it's, you know, it's kind of like, you know, you want us to share our goals every week, but then longer goals as well. You know, what are your long-term goals? Obviously, you ask me, you know, what's my five-year goal? And the thing is, I know you will hold me accountable to that, but again, not in a naggy kind of way, just, hey, how's it going? Is there anything I can do to help? Can I introduce you to someone? Is there anything that you need? You just need some moral support. Like, what do you need, and how can we? Really? Really? Yeah, exactly. And I really like that about the group. And a lot of networking groups don't have that. And like if there's people out there listening and they start to think, oh God, I can't, you know, I want to be part of that, it's fine if you don't want to, you don't have to. But, and it's, and I might have thought it was a bit cheesy at first, but actually because of the high energy of the group and because everybody approaches it really positively and not, you know, not like it's a, again, it's not a stick to beat anybody with, it's there to say, what do I need to help you with? Yeah, and, and to be really open about it. And go on.

We take the mic as well. It's not. We're all cheesy, cheesy, fake, fake. You know, we have a laugh, a total big laugh. So it's not all, you know because I don't want to come across as all like, happy, happy, joy, joy. Because life isn't like that. Life is real. But at the same time, if. Yeah, keeping the vibe high. Where were you going with that before I butted in?

No, I was just saying that that's. That helps keep that going. Right, so this, this is what I was saying, you know, surrounding your pe. Yourself with people that are positive and, you know, like the other day I had, you know, I went to this event and I tripped and fell in the station. I nearly broke my teeth out. I. I injured my foot, and then my legs started to hurt. And then, you know, by the end of the day, I was like, literally limping. You know, I was feeling quite sorry for myself. I had a couple of deals, so, you know, didn't go through. I had bad news as well. Then I was at this event and it turned out it was essentially a total waste of a day. So not only did I waste a day of my time of trying to do other things and the money that, you know, that it cost me to go and everything else. Do you know what I mean? And then. But then I got injured on top of it, and it was just.

It's like. You were a lot of.

Yeah, a lot of stuff. Yeah, it happened at once.

Yeah.

And, you know, I was feeling. I was feeling quite sorry for myself and I'm quite stoic. And so I don't. I kind of don't mind when that stuff happens. I just lean into it for a day, and I just let myself feel that way. Because what I've learned about myself is, is that if you try and fight it, then you just push it down, and you bury it, and then it comes back later, and it comes back to bite you. If. If something happens, you've just got to lean into it, let it happen, feel the feeling and then. Then, you can let go of it.

Sit in the ship, allow life to have a balance, because it's not all good, you know, and.

Exactly.

I tell you what, like, when those moments happen, some, sometimes as I've got older, I've gone, oh, life's a bit shit at the moment. Brilliant. That means it's going to get better tomorrow, which is a weird way of looking at it. But. But whereas maybe in my 20s, I would have gone, oh, Life's a bit. At the moment and then just get deeper and deeper into it and then feel a bit down and depressed with it and just let it swamp me. The joy of. Of getting older and wiser, I suppose, isn't it, really? And just taking things with a pinch of salt. Yeah, yeah.

Have you ever heard of a guy named Jocko?

What, like Michael Jackson? No, Jocko or Jacko?

Jocko. He's a. He's an ex-Navy SEAL motivational speaker. He's been on. He's one of the a. A-level podcast guests. Yeah, he's probably been on Rob's show. I'd almost guarantee you Jocko's been on because he's had David Goggins and a few other people like that. But one of the things that Jocko talks about is. He talks about, you know, people come to him with bad news. Oh, you didn't get that promotion. Good. You couldn't lift that weight. Good. You know, your car broke down. Good. Because those are all opportunities to, to learn something, to grow so. And to do better and to grow so. You know, you learn something when something doesn't go right, car breaks down. Well, you learn something. You know, you didn't get the promotion. You learned something, so maybe you need to improve. And he said, you know, you have to. You have to turn that. When. When that bad, bad stuff happens, you have to turn that around and go, great. What's the lesson in that? What can I learn from this? And make it into a positive. Yeah, but that's that hardcore positive mindset that you have to have that he just learned in the military. Because you get in a bad situation in a war, and you're in a battle, guess what? You can't start going down that. That rabbit hole of I know things are going wrong, and then letting your brain get sucked into that because the next thing you know, you're literally dead. So you have to just go, okay, that happened. What do we learn from that? Let's go. And then try and make it better next time.

The university of Mistakes.

Exactly. So, going all the way back, that's that high vibe in. Particularly in Spark, but in some networking groups is what can help carry you through those, you know, those dark spots because it was. I was watching the messages and I think, you know, I think even I made a comment in the, in the messages, like, look, I'm having a down day today. You know, I'm not, I'm just. I'm not going to talk to anybody. I'm not going to say anything; I just need to get on with it. And I just, you know, I came to work, I put my head down. I had loads of editing I needed to do, so I just buried my head in editing and I just felt sorry for myself for the day. And then I went home at night and, you know, just said to my wife, I'm like, look, I'm just. I'm feeling sorry for myself right now. Just leave me to it, and I'll be better tomorrow. And I was a little bit better the next day. And, you know, but again, keeping an eye on the messages and everybody chatting, and I'm like, everybody's, you know, it's like. But. But they dragged me kind of back into it, and it's like, okay, so now I'm back, right? I'm, you know, it was a few days and I had the weekend even, and whatever. My foot still hurts, but I'm not feeling sorry for myself. So I'm just injured now, and that's fine. I can deal with that.

Is it getting better?

Yeah, it's getting better. Yeah.

You haven't broken anything.

It's all good.

Good.

And even if it's not, it's still good.

Good.

Well, I've got to go to London tomorrow and walk around on it all day, so I'm just trying to. To be as. Just stay off it as much as possible.

So tell us a little bit more about the life of David, the life of David Brown, and what you do from day to day and what you do in your business. And you're. You're traveling to London quite a lot. Talk about what you, you know, what you specialise in, what you do.

Run a media company, and we produce podcasts. Well, not just podcasts, but video and audio content for people and companies and brands and. Yeah, I mean, I'm back and forth to London. You know, we have. I have a couple of different studios that I work in with different customers. I work. We do a lot of remote recording using Riverside that we're using now. I've got a small studio here in Tunbridge Wells I can use so people can come in and record in person, and I manage that studio here. A Day in the Life of David is, you know, get up in the morning at, you know, half six. Get ready. I take my son to school every day in the morning, so hop on the bike, rain or shine. Sometimes, if the weather is particularly horrendous and offensive, he can convince his mom to take him to school, which is. But that's rare most of the time.

I Think take him to school on your bike.

Yeah, so he comes on the motorcycle. So I go and drop him off at school, and then I come in and work in the office most days. Some days, I, you know, have events, or I'm going off to see clients or whatever, and then. Yeah, and then he usually comes to me in the afternoon. We've got a parent's evening this evening, so he just went to a friend's because there's no point coming here and then going back. So yeah, and, and that's pretty much it. And then I go to the gym, and then I go home, and let's rinse, repeat.

What your client, what sort of clients do you have? Like how do you serve your clients? What's your ideal client?

Well, I mean, my, I, I guess me. Yes. Yeah, you're my ideal client. My ideal client would be someone like, you know, like a bigger brand who needed somebody to come in and wanted to do, you know, sort of audio, video content as a part of their sort of, you know, marketing strategy and said, look, you know, well, we want you to come on and do all of our content for us and you know, it's going to be 5k a month as a retainer, and you know, and we want you to come in and do that. And then what that would mean is I could hire a team at the minute. I have a team of freelancers that I work with, and you know, some of the people I work with and I've got everything from, you know, BAFTA nominated and you know, filmmakers to do video editing to, to audio editors that are the same and everything else, but that's all freelance. What I'd like to do is I'd like to have everybody on staff so that I could have that available all the time and then have the studio as well, and I could have some producers and then, you know, a full team of people. And that's really what I'm working towards is I want some bigger customers. But I really love working with the smaller customers like you who are getting started because that's where the fun bit is. Like the other side pays the bills, so those big customers, they've got big budgets, they also are a lot of trouble to work with. You know, they're very demanding. But it's nice if you have a couple of those that can kind of keep the lights on, and then you can do the fun stuff as well, and, you know, having people who are just starting out and smaller brands and startups and individuals who just want to do shows and they Want to get started. That's the fun bit for me. And that, and that taps into the, I mean I've worked in the startup, I've worked for startups for nearly 40 years. I can't believe I've even saying that but almost 40 years I've worked for startup businesses and it's crazy, you know, it literally, it's crazy. And I, I like that, that startup mentality. I like the chaos of it. I like the, you know, nobody knows what's going to happen from one day to the next and trying to figure it out as you go along and.

The energy and the drive and.

Yeah, and that's the, that's the fun part. I don't like big company. You know, then you get into politics and all that sort of stuff, and I don't have any time for that.

Yeah, I agree. But there is a switch that one has to take when you start a company to then, you know, you do have to go through that switch if you're going to survive. But, yeah, it's like how to keep the energy still vibrant whilst making that switch. It's all about balance, David, isn't it? Like this is life.

Well, and when I, when I was going for funding so I had my own startup for a while that was an ad tech-based company and one of the most interesting things that turned into a little bit of a signature thing because I said it once kind of by accident and then realised that it was really good to say was some guys asked me, they because I said something about when the company successful X, I don't remember what, I was spouting some bollocks and the guy went, hang on, hang on. He goes, so in your mind what does successful mean? Like what is, how do you know that your company is successful? What is success to you? And I thought about it for a second. I said the day the board comes to me and says okay, Dave, you're no longer fit to run the company. We need to hire somebody who actually knows what they're doing. I'm like, that's when it's successful because it's grown beyond my ability to run it. And for me that's, that means I've been successful at my job, which is getting it off the ground. And the guy was like, I love that answer. And so I've used it ever since then. But it's true, it's, I like that 0 to 1, the 1 to 100. I'm not so good at that, but I'm good at the 0 to 1. And so that's what I like doing.

I love it. I love it. And that kind of matches your mental age of 23 as well.

Exactly.

Love it. Well, David, thank you so much for this podcast today. I really appreciate it. It's been lovely to have you on. If you want any, any words you want to finish with, I mean, those, those were great words that you just finished with. But just to wrap it up, any advice for these people starting businesses, business owners, any words?

My, my advice that I give to most. Well, I have a couple. I have one very specific bit of advice actually, and it will resonate with some people and it won't with some. But my very, very specific piece of advice for somebody who's founding their own business, doesn't matter what area it's in. Literally doesn't matter. It could be lie. It could be. It could be a butcher, it could be a bicycle shop, it could be out of whatever. It could be an ad tech company. It doesn't matter. If, if you were the person who had the idea, even if there's two of you sitting in a room and you've had a couple of beers or whatever, you're at the pub and you, you come up with an idea for a business, and you decide to be co-founders if it was you that actually had the idea. First, you need to realise that everyone else is an employee. Nobody will be as invested in that business as you. Even your co-founder, who you were standing there with, and you said you had the idea together because it wasn't their idea. They will never be as invested in that as you are. They will never be the person who will stay up at 3 o'clock in the morning to get something done. You will be the one who will do that because it was your idea. And I see so many founders get stuck in this idea that everybody's going to love their business as much as they do and that their co-founder, they somehow think that, that because they're called a co-founder, that they have as much skin in the game. And I can tell you, 100% of the time, they do not. And so if it's your idea, just be aware that no one is going to love it like you do, and no one is going to put the time in like you do. Conversely, if it wasn't your idea and it was someone else's idea, but you've gone in as a co-founder, you need to also be aware that you are an employee; you're not a co-founder because at the end of the day. And it's not a negative thing; it's just how we are. You will never be as invested in that business as the person who came up with the idea. And you need to just be aware of that because they may do stuff and they may do things that are not in your best interest because they think it's best for the company. And so you're potentially slightly exposed.

Do you mind if I just frame that ever so slightly differently? Because I love it, but I'm going to frame it like this. When you start a business, it's like having a baby, and you have to nurture and cradle and look after this baby and help it grow. And then if someone comes in and tries to look after your baby, you're like, no, I don't want to parent it like that. So it kind of is often like your business is like your baby. So therefore the person who's thought of it or has created it needs to be. Yeah, it's a good thought, David. Thank you. Wonderful one to wrap up on. Thank you. So, yeah, amongst all of the. I'm not. I'm sure it won't come across but I have had life going on in the background here with children singing and dogs barking downstairs.

Well, people will notice that. You know, we had an edit in the middle where we sort of. We went away, and we've come back, and so there's two dogs came in.

The room and started like having a play in a fight, having a play.

But look, that's life, and it's. It's totally fine. And so, it's been a great conversation, and I've enjoyed chatting with you. We haven't done this and so this has been quite nice, actually, to just sit down and do this for once. So, yeah, thanks for. Thanks for having me on.

And it was lastminute.com and lastminute.com are always the best ones, I find. So thank you so much.

And for anyone listening, just stay tuned because if we hit last minute dot com, you'll hear from me again, I'm sure.

Awesome. Well, good luck at parents evening, David, and thanks for being on the podcast and I'll see you very soon. Thanks, everyone. Yeah, thanks, bye.