1 00:00:20,534 --> 00:00:27,738 [Mark]: Design is everywhere, but do we podcasters get it wrong? And when we do get it wrong, 2 00:00:28,499 --> 00:00:34,803 [Mark]: what is the real life impact on the success of our show? That is what I'm gonna 3 00:00:34,823 --> 00:00:39,867 [Mark]: talk about today here on the podcast Accelerate because it's a very, very important 4 00:00:39,947 --> 00:00:43,709 [Mark]: subject. And you might be fooled into believing that we're just gonna talk about 5 00:00:43,749 --> 00:00:50,093 [Mark]: graphic design. That is completely wrong. We are not, because design is so much more. 6 00:00:50,614 --> 00:00:54,935 [Mark]: This is of course the podcast accelerator. I'm your host, Mark Asquith. And I just want 7 00:00:54,955 --> 00:00:59,377 [Mark]: to thank, before we go any further, the wonderful Rich Graham, who recently sent 8 00:00:59,397 --> 00:01:03,599 [Mark]: me, he sent me a little bit of beer money to say thank you for the podcast. So 9 00:01:03,659 --> 00:01:07,020 [Mark]: Rich, I appreciate you, my friend. Thank you so much for doing that. And if you want 10 00:01:07,060 --> 00:01:12,322 [Mark]: to be like Rich, and if you want to say, Marco, listen, I appreciate the podcast, 11 00:01:13,043 --> 00:01:18,805 [Mark]: go and have a little meretti on me. You can do so at mark.live slash support. I 12 00:01:18,865 --> 00:01:22,795 [Mark]: also want to thank. A couple of my most recent guests, Mike Willa and the wonderful 13 00:01:22,835 --> 00:01:28,277 [Mark]: Dave Jackson. Two amazing previous episodes that we've just done very, very recently. And 14 00:01:28,537 --> 00:01:32,419 [Mark]: we've just had fantastic feedback. In fact, the last three episodes. I feel like 15 00:01:33,460 --> 00:01:36,621 [Mark]: people have got a heck of a lot from it was revenue lessons from big podcasts, which 16 00:01:36,661 --> 00:01:41,723 [Mark]: I think is, again, a very important subject for the independent podcaster. And 17 00:01:41,743 --> 00:01:44,525 [Mark]: we're sort of going to build on that today. We're going to build on that today because 18 00:01:44,565 --> 00:01:48,754 [Mark]: design is tied to that. And also. The lessons that we learned from Mike Waller and 19 00:01:48,794 --> 00:01:53,096 [Mark]: Dave Jackson in the previous two episodes have really been well received. So thank you 20 00:01:53,116 --> 00:01:56,938 [Mark]: to everyone for the kind words on those episodes. I like mixing it up a little bit 21 00:01:56,958 --> 00:02:01,059 [Mark]: with this podcast. I'm enjoying the fact that I'm doing interviews and doing some 22 00:02:01,079 --> 00:02:05,001 [Mark]: of my own content and so on. So if you're enjoying the format, let me know on Twitter 23 00:02:05,621 --> 00:02:10,503 [Mark]: at Mr. Asquith. And I say, if you want to be like rich and chukkas a little bit of 24 00:02:10,523 --> 00:02:17,338 [Mark]: beer money, you can do so at mark.live slash support. Design. is everywhere. Design 25 00:02:17,478 --> 00:02:23,760 [Mark]: is vital and you interact with design every single time you look at something, you 26 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,741 [Mark]: touch something, you move something, you enjoy something, you don't enjoy something, 27 00:02:28,761 --> 00:02:32,202 [Mark]: you have a good experience, you have a bad experience. Everything in our lives in 28 00:02:32,242 --> 00:02:38,144 [Mark]: 2023 and beyond is affected by design. Good design, bad design, indifferent design, 29 00:02:38,184 --> 00:02:42,325 [Mark]: design that you don't notice because it's either very good or very bad and very 30 00:02:42,365 --> 00:02:46,534 [Mark]: often you actually only do only notice. bad design and that's the sort of irony of 31 00:02:46,594 --> 00:02:51,376 [Mark]: designers that great design just like simplicity goes unnoticed because you expect 32 00:02:51,457 --> 00:02:56,399 [Mark]: good things we are well designed as human beings you know we don't we don't notice 33 00:02:57,079 --> 00:03:01,621 [Mark]: that we're so well designed but we are and that's fine you know we have expectations 34 00:03:01,641 --> 00:03:04,702 [Mark]: of what we are as beings we've got the two arms we've got the two legs we've got the 35 00:03:04,722 --> 00:03:09,804 [Mark]: head we walk in a certain way and you know we don't notice unless something is different 36 00:03:10,325 --> 00:03:16,319 [Mark]: okay and that's the point that I want to get to today is that design is everywhere. 37 00:03:16,339 --> 00:03:21,881 [Mark]: All right. And there's a few misconceptions I want to just bash. There's some, I guess, 38 00:03:21,901 --> 00:03:26,922 [Mark]: some thoughts that I want to give you about what you should be focusing on when it 39 00:03:26,962 --> 00:03:29,783 [Mark]: comes to design. Now, I'm not going to tell you how to build cover art. I'm not 40 00:03:29,803 --> 00:03:34,425 [Mark]: going to tell you how to design things. This is a mindset that I want to teach you 41 00:03:34,565 --> 00:03:38,778 [Mark]: and talk to you about because it's something that I've always had, I've always had a design 42 00:03:38,939 --> 00:03:42,541 [Mark]: oriented mindset, even though I didn't realize I had for a long, long time until I 43 00:03:42,561 --> 00:03:46,983 [Mark]: really got into business. And even now, I know I drive some of our graphic designers 44 00:03:47,023 --> 00:03:51,285 [Mark]: and our user interface designers crazy because I'm a bit of a stickler. I'm a bit 45 00:03:51,305 --> 00:03:56,348 [Mark]: of a stickler for good design. You know, I don't, bad design stands out. I'd rather 46 00:03:56,368 --> 00:04:00,430 [Mark]: you didn't notice that Captivate was well designed, but you never had any problems. 47 00:04:00,470 --> 00:04:03,492 [Mark]: You didn't have any friction. You just somehow it felt easy and you didn't quite know 48 00:04:03,532 --> 00:04:10,192 [Mark]: why. Like that's the ultimate. Okay. That's design. doing its job. So let's think 49 00:04:10,212 --> 00:04:14,854 [Mark]: about design for podcasting. Design for podcasting generally takes or is generally 50 00:04:14,894 --> 00:04:19,057 [Mark]: considered to just be graphic design. All right. And that's the first mistake that 51 00:04:19,097 --> 00:04:24,260 [Mark]: people make. So design is very often commoditized. Graphic design in particular, 52 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:28,983 [Mark]: we've got amazing tools like Canva that you can knock up some cover art. Really nicely 53 00:04:29,183 --> 00:04:32,725 [Mark]: done cover art within Canva within a few minutes. You can do that. I did that only 54 00:04:33,365 --> 00:04:37,292 [Mark]: this week. for a new podcast that I'm putting together with some friends. And I did 55 00:04:37,312 --> 00:04:45,898 [Mark]: it. It's good. Is it professional enough? Yes. Does it tick the boxes and will it stand 56 00:04:45,998 --> 00:04:50,741 [Mark]: out in the directories? Yes. Did it cost much? No, it didn't. And this is, I think, 57 00:04:50,761 --> 00:04:54,104 [Mark]: the first mistake that people make when it comes to design and then, you know, the 58 00:04:54,204 --> 00:04:59,928 [Mark]: sub niche of graphic design. Just because Canva is free doesn't mean that design is cheap. 59 00:05:00,588 --> 00:05:06,707 [Mark]: OK, let me say that again. Just because things like Canva are free, doesn't mean that 60 00:05:06,767 --> 00:05:10,689 [Mark]: design is cheap. Because all of these templates that are within Canva that allow 61 00:05:10,729 --> 00:05:14,170 [Mark]: people that aren't designers, you know, you, me, and people that aren't designers, 62 00:05:14,931 --> 00:05:20,813 [Mark]: tools like that allow people to democratize design and to access good design and to just 63 00:05:21,313 --> 00:05:26,795 [Mark]: mildly customize it to look good, guess what? They are powered by a very expensive 64 00:05:26,835 --> 00:05:31,277 [Mark]: designers. So design is a skill, it's a talent, it's a craft, it's something that 65 00:05:31,317 --> 00:05:37,018 [Mark]: you own. and that you should value. It's not cheap, all right? A lot of people 66 00:05:37,058 --> 00:05:41,161 [Mark]: say, why does it cost so much to design a logo or design a website? Because you can't 67 00:05:41,181 --> 00:05:48,047 [Mark]: do it. And if you think you can, you're probably wrong, all right? The point is, right, 68 00:05:48,168 --> 00:05:55,114 [Mark]: I can move bricks around and I can mix mortar up and I can dig. And they're all the 69 00:05:55,134 --> 00:06:00,626 [Mark]: constituent pieces of building a house. Yeah, and I can buy timber. I can buy glass 70 00:06:00,646 --> 00:06:05,868 [Mark]: and glazing, I can buy window frames. But do you think the house that I build myself 71 00:06:05,948 --> 00:06:11,071 [Mark]: using my own hands that aren't skilled in that way is gonna be livable, is gonna be 72 00:06:11,131 --> 00:06:15,393 [Mark]: good enough? Of course it's not because everything's a skill and we cheapen design, 73 00:06:15,413 --> 00:06:19,435 [Mark]: we commoditize design and we shouldn't do, all right? So just because design is accessible 74 00:06:19,635 --> 00:06:22,976 [Mark]: using things like candle, which you should be using. I did mine on Cambly yesterday, 75 00:06:22,996 --> 00:06:28,118 [Mark]: the new cover art. My podcast accelerator. Cover art is done on Canva. Now granted, it's 76 00:06:28,178 --> 00:06:31,020 [Mark]: done using brand guidelines, which I'm not going to talk about today because it's 77 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,302 [Mark]: very different. It's done using brand guidelines so that I almost can't get it wrong. 78 00:06:35,622 --> 00:06:40,044 [Mark]: And it's got good photography, so I almost can't get it wrong. But it's still physically 79 00:06:40,084 --> 00:06:46,807 [Mark]: done on Canva. But as I said, really want to hit this home. Design is not cheap 80 00:06:46,847 --> 00:06:51,429 [Mark]: and you shouldn't think about it as being cheap because the Canva design platform, 81 00:06:51,449 --> 00:06:56,443 [Mark]: to use that as an example again, is powered by world class designers designing 82 00:06:56,483 --> 00:07:00,845 [Mark]: those templates. Like they don't come from nowhere. They're not magic. All right. 83 00:07:00,865 --> 00:07:03,686 [Mark]: So that's the first thing I want you to understand. Design is not cheap, but we 84 00:07:03,826 --> 00:07:07,807 [Mark]: sadly commoditize it. You see all the time in the Facebook groups in podcasting, 85 00:07:07,827 --> 00:07:11,189 [Mark]: why does it cost this much to get a cover art? Well, you either have bad cover 86 00:07:11,249 --> 00:07:15,611 [Mark]: art, you either use a template and understand it's probably gonna be from a template and 87 00:07:15,631 --> 00:07:20,373 [Mark]: look templated, or you get someone to do it. And if you get someone to do it, they 88 00:07:20,413 --> 00:07:24,134 [Mark]: deserve pain. So don't be an asshole. when it comes to paying people or something 89 00:07:24,154 --> 00:07:28,776 [Mark]: like that. I would hate for someone to, why do I have to pay a subscription fee 90 00:07:28,796 --> 00:07:32,478 [Mark]: to get your premium content? You know, you would think, well, of course you bloody 91 00:07:32,498 --> 00:07:36,760 [Mark]: do, because this is what I do, look at all the work I put in. So don't be a dick 92 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,741 [Mark]: when it comes to design, all right? Don't cheapen design just because you think 93 00:07:39,801 --> 00:07:43,463 [Mark]: it's easy or think it's cheap or well, it's easy. Look at that, that can't have taken 94 00:07:43,523 --> 00:07:48,025 [Mark]: long. It's only a few lines on the screen. Well, you go and do them then. And that's the 95 00:07:48,065 --> 00:07:53,203 [Mark]: point, you can't do it that well. So. Graphic design is what we normally think of 96 00:07:53,283 --> 00:07:57,807 [Mark]: as design when it comes to podcasting. But what I want you to really understand is 97 00:07:57,827 --> 00:08:01,310 [Mark]: that design touches everything. All right. I walked through a door. This is an 98 00:08:01,390 --> 00:08:05,253 [Mark]: analogy from a good friend of mine, Kyle Wilkinson, who runs one of the best design 99 00:08:05,313 --> 00:08:10,637 [Mark]: agencies in the UK and beyond. He has done all my branding. He has done, I've worked 100 00:08:10,657 --> 00:08:13,620 [Mark]: with him for years. He's done an agency with him. He's one of the finest in the business. 101 00:08:13,660 --> 00:08:18,884 [Mark]: He genuinely is one of the best designers, not only in England, but I believe in the world 102 00:08:18,944 --> 00:08:22,931 [Mark]: is fantastic at what he does. All right. And he always talks to me about this idea that 103 00:08:22,951 --> 00:08:26,353 [Mark]: design is everything. Okay. And you walk through a door and guess what? That handle 104 00:08:26,393 --> 00:08:32,177 [Mark]: somewhere, somehow, not only the concept of a handle working, but that physical handle 105 00:08:32,197 --> 00:08:35,439 [Mark]: that you've got, the aesthetics of it, they've all been, all that's been designed. 106 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,223 [Mark]: It's been designed. The hinges have been designed. The door has been designed. 107 00:08:40,263 --> 00:08:44,045 [Mark]: The mechanism, do we walk in, do we walk out? Do we open inward? Do we open outward? 108 00:08:44,546 --> 00:08:48,709 [Mark]: Does it slide? Is it a bifold? All of that has been designed for different use cases 109 00:08:48,729 --> 00:08:55,093 [Mark]: so that we don't notice it. just a door, but it works. And it goes the same for podcasting, 110 00:08:55,193 --> 00:09:01,478 [Mark]: all right. Bad design stands out, okay. Design in your podcast should be considered 111 00:09:01,538 --> 00:09:05,661 [Mark]: across the board. Yes, graphic design is very important, but you might have heard 112 00:09:05,701 --> 00:09:12,026 [Mark]: the phrase sound design. I design my sound. I design, I've designed my audio. I've 113 00:09:12,066 --> 00:09:15,969 [Mark]: designed not for this show, but some of the sound effects that we use in other shows. 114 00:09:16,029 --> 00:09:20,960 [Mark]: I've designed. the experience and if you take that upper level, so go to shows like 115 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:26,003 [Mark]: what Wondry does with the business walls and even things like the news agents, the new 116 00:09:26,023 --> 00:09:30,646 [Mark]: show which is by us here at Global, UK's biggest podcast in the news criteria and 117 00:09:31,287 --> 00:09:36,711 [Mark]: it's the sound design is very well done. So we cut clips into it, we don't cut clips 118 00:09:36,731 --> 00:09:41,774 [Mark]: into it. The design has been considered and we don't notice it as listeners. We just 119 00:09:41,794 --> 00:09:45,176 [Mark]: think, well, of course that's there. Of course that clip is there because they contextualize 120 00:09:45,196 --> 00:09:49,071 [Mark]: that clip. And then they talk. about that clip and so obviously they were going 121 00:09:49,091 --> 00:09:54,213 [Mark]: to play the clip. But we, so we don't think about it, but someone has, someone's 122 00:09:54,254 --> 00:09:58,736 [Mark]: considered that. All right. We also need to think about user experience design. 123 00:09:58,796 --> 00:10:03,579 [Mark]: Okay. So how do I interact as a new listener with your podcast? Okay. Have you 124 00:10:03,599 --> 00:10:07,721 [Mark]: got a good trail? That's very obvious. Are you naming your titles? Are you typing 125 00:10:07,741 --> 00:10:11,423 [Mark]: your title, writing your titles in a good way? There was a fantastic podcast that 126 00:10:11,483 --> 00:10:16,378 [Mark]: I really love. The golf podcast that I tweeted about this a few months ago. And 127 00:10:16,398 --> 00:10:21,701 [Mark]: their titles were shocking. Like it said, such and such podcast with such and such 128 00:10:21,741 --> 00:10:26,645 [Mark]: host, episode such and such. And then the guest and the subject was like at the end 129 00:10:26,685 --> 00:10:31,568 [Mark]: of the episode title. So on Apple podcasts, on Spotify, in my car and whatever, I had no 130 00:10:31,648 --> 00:10:36,992 [Mark]: idea what that episode was about. And it was a big podcast. So I tweeted them, I 131 00:10:37,012 --> 00:10:39,733 [Mark]: said, look, listen, Timmy, here's a screenshot. I'm struggling like heck with this. 132 00:10:40,034 --> 00:10:42,395 [Mark]: I wanna listen to your back catalog, but I don't know if I'm listening to Butch 133 00:10:42,415 --> 00:10:47,691 [Mark]: Harmon or Bubba Watson or Nelly Corder. I've got no idea. can please name them like 134 00:10:47,731 --> 00:10:51,453 [Mark]: this. And guess what they did, their producers went through and they changed all 135 00:10:51,473 --> 00:10:56,516 [Mark]: the back catalog. That's we're in the back and said, thank you, it's much, much better. 136 00:10:56,556 --> 00:11:01,318 [Mark]: So that's an experience design, even to do with things like your membership, so 137 00:11:01,338 --> 00:11:07,322 [Mark]: you know your, we talked about a couple of episodes ago, how to design a paid subscription 138 00:11:08,282 --> 00:11:11,764 [Mark]: and to sell things through your podcast, whether it's fixed price sponsorships, whether 139 00:11:11,784 --> 00:11:15,743 [Mark]: it's getting tips like I got from Rich and Drew. or whether it is selling your memberships, 140 00:11:15,763 --> 00:11:19,086 [Mark]: your bonus content, your exclusive content, your windowed content, whatever that might 141 00:11:19,106 --> 00:11:24,530 [Mark]: be. That experience has to be designed. And when we designed that system, that platform 142 00:11:24,570 --> 00:11:30,555 [Mark]: into Captivate, we did a lot of that thinking for you. But how do you word the benefits 143 00:11:30,595 --> 00:11:36,139 [Mark]: in your membership? How do you deliver those? A great example of this is when we do 144 00:11:36,180 --> 00:11:39,902 [Mark]: things like with Spark of Rebellion, which is that Star Wars show. When people sign 145 00:11:39,922 --> 00:11:42,863 [Mark]: up to our membership for whatever it is, a few bucks a month, we send them out with 146 00:11:42,903 --> 00:11:47,644 [Mark]: sticker, a Sparkle Rebellion sticker. And we could just do that, but instead we write 147 00:11:47,704 --> 00:11:52,525 [Mark]: a handwritten note saying, thank you. And it's part of the experience which has been 148 00:11:52,945 --> 00:11:59,547 [Mark]: designed. Okay. So design touches everything in your podcast. Yes, the graphics, yes, your 149 00:11:59,567 --> 00:12:05,029 [Mark]: website, but it's also the experience. You need to design the experience that you 150 00:12:05,089 --> 00:12:11,651 [Mark]: give to people. You need to design the experience. that goes alongside your membership 151 00:12:11,711 --> 00:12:16,374 [Mark]: options and your tipping options. You need to design the experience for your guests. 152 00:12:17,034 --> 00:12:22,557 [Mark]: What does that look like? Do you send production notes like we do? I always send 153 00:12:22,577 --> 00:12:27,500 [Mark]: production notes out. I plan them episodes using Captivate and I send production notes 154 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,403 [Mark]: by just exporting the PDF from Captivate which is what it's intended to do. Do you do 155 00:12:32,443 --> 00:12:36,785 [Mark]: that? Is that guest experience well designed? Will they remember that? Will it 156 00:12:36,825 --> 00:12:41,282 [Mark]: stick out? Will they understand that is a good experience? Because they probably 157 00:12:41,423 --> 00:12:46,744 [Mark]: won't. But they'll definitely know if they have a bad experience. If the guest turns 158 00:12:46,804 --> 00:12:50,065 [Mark]: up and they say, well, what are we talking about? I don't know, what do you think? We 159 00:12:50,565 --> 00:12:55,126 [Mark]: got any talking points? Well, that's sort of your job as the host. Oh, sorry, I 160 00:12:55,146 --> 00:12:58,207 [Mark]: forgot to tell you, I've got to finish after 15 minutes because I've got such and 161 00:12:58,247 --> 00:13:02,588 [Mark]: such. No, no, no. Set all the expectations up front, design that experience, all right? 162 00:13:02,608 --> 00:13:09,196 [Mark]: So that is super important. Design everything. within your podcast from your graphics to your 163 00:13:09,256 --> 00:13:14,441 [Mark]: sound design to your guest experience to your user experience, your listener experience, 164 00:13:15,302 --> 00:13:20,427 [Mark]: everything. The way that you write your show notes has to be well designed. Everything, 165 00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:27,387 [Mark]: design touches everything. What can you do today? Can you do anything with this? 166 00:13:27,427 --> 00:13:31,410 [Mark]: Can you implement better design without spending any money? Well, yes, you can. Now, 167 00:13:31,450 --> 00:13:37,214 [Mark]: like I said, we don't want to commoditize design. Just think this through before you 168 00:13:37,234 --> 00:13:41,237 [Mark]: sort of run off and do anything. I want you to just stop now and think about what I'm 169 00:13:41,257 --> 00:13:47,661 [Mark]: about to say. Just because we can get things done cheaply doesn't mean that it's 170 00:13:47,741 --> 00:13:51,664 [Mark]: commoditized. So the graphic design, like I said at the beginning, just because 171 00:13:51,684 --> 00:13:55,723 [Mark]: you use Canva doesn't mean that design is cheap. That's just a tool that gives you 172 00:13:55,743 --> 00:13:59,926 [Mark]: templates from designers who are highly talented and who have been paid a lot of money 173 00:14:00,166 --> 00:14:04,869 [Mark]: to do those designs. The money still changed hands, it wasn't you that was doing 174 00:14:04,889 --> 00:14:12,755 [Mark]: the paying. But remember cheap does not equal commoditized. Commoditized does not 175 00:14:12,835 --> 00:14:16,698 [Mark]: equal cheap. And when I say commoditized, what I mean is people take it for granted. 176 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,458 [Mark]: So what I don't want you to think when I say this next thing is that... It's easy 177 00:14:22,478 --> 00:14:26,700 [Mark]: or you should take it for granted. All I'm about to say is that you don't have to 178 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,462 [Mark]: spend a pile of money doing it. All right, so let's forget graphic design. Let's 179 00:14:29,482 --> 00:14:33,445 [Mark]: think about other things. Guest design, the experience. Do you have to spend any money 180 00:14:33,485 --> 00:14:38,528 [Mark]: on that? No. But you've got to spend time thinking about it. OK, just sit down, 181 00:14:38,928 --> 00:14:44,491 [Mark]: grab a cup of tea, write down a process, a flow, design the experience for your guests. 182 00:14:44,551 --> 00:14:49,559 [Mark]: What is the pre-booking experience? What is The post-booking experience, what's 183 00:14:49,579 --> 00:14:53,562 [Mark]: the interview experience, what's the post-interview experience, all right? Design 184 00:14:53,582 --> 00:14:58,147 [Mark]: that out and then you've got it as a standard operating procedure. What is your 185 00:14:58,227 --> 00:15:02,190 [Mark]: episode design process? How do you do that? What's your intro, what's your outro? 186 00:15:02,250 --> 00:15:06,354 [Mark]: What is the middle bit? What is your flow per episode? Because it's not good enough 187 00:15:06,374 --> 00:15:09,637 [Mark]: to wing it anymore. There's too many podcasts now for you to wing it. Other people 188 00:15:09,657 --> 00:15:15,566 [Mark]: will do your thing better if you don't do it well, okay? So... All of this just takes 189 00:15:15,626 --> 00:15:21,551 [Mark]: thinking time, it just takes a mindset, it just takes prioritizing focus. It doesn't 190 00:15:21,591 --> 00:15:25,735 [Mark]: take money, but that's not to say that it should be taken for granted, all right? 191 00:15:25,755 --> 00:15:30,879 [Mark]: Just because you don't pay for something doesn't mean that it is not valuable, all right? 192 00:15:30,899 --> 00:15:33,861 [Mark]: That's the misnomer of free when people give... That's why we don't have a freemium 193 00:15:33,901 --> 00:15:37,965 [Mark]: product at Captivate, because people take free for granted. They do. They've got 194 00:15:38,005 --> 00:15:41,908 [Mark]: no skin in the game, so why would they care? They're not going to bother. It's not 195 00:15:41,948 --> 00:15:47,635 [Mark]: a business model that is for us. So think that through, all right? How can you 196 00:15:48,935 --> 00:15:53,857 [Mark]: design every part of your podcast from all of the experience to the visuals, to the 197 00:15:53,978 --> 00:15:57,259 [Mark]: audio? Where do you need to put a bit of money? Well, maybe you need to put a bit 198 00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:01,220 [Mark]: of money into graphic design or to graphic design software like Canva. Do you need to 199 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,702 [Mark]: spend money on your episode design or your sound design flow? Probably not really. 200 00:16:06,243 --> 00:16:11,405 [Mark]: To your guest experience design, no. But I want you to think through the fact that 201 00:16:11,445 --> 00:16:16,704 [Mark]: design touches everything. because not enough people think like that. And if you can 202 00:16:16,744 --> 00:16:21,468 [Mark]: do that, you'll stand out. The biggest shows, if you go and look at the top charts, 203 00:16:22,228 --> 00:16:29,534 [Mark]: they're well-designed in every single aspect. They're calls to action, but well-designed. 204 00:16:29,975 --> 00:16:35,719 [Mark]: Their graphics are well-designed. Their listener flow, so the format of the episode 205 00:16:35,739 --> 00:16:39,782 [Mark]: and the way that they guide people through the episode is well-designed. The news agents, 206 00:16:40,303 --> 00:16:46,095 [Mark]: go and listen to it. It's a great example. Business wars. great example, all right? You 207 00:16:46,115 --> 00:16:51,039 [Mark]: can stand out from your crowd, all right? We talk about niching down and focusing on 208 00:16:51,059 --> 00:16:54,822 [Mark]: just your core audience, but the sad fact is there are enough podcasts now where 209 00:16:55,063 --> 00:16:59,646 [Mark]: it doesn't matter really what competition, sorry, what niche you're in. You will have 210 00:16:59,686 --> 00:17:04,770 [Mark]: competition. It doesn't matter what niche you are in. There are enough podcasts 211 00:17:04,791 --> 00:17:12,116 [Mark]: in the world that you will have competition now. You can stand out by designing every facet 212 00:17:12,537 --> 00:17:18,435 [Mark]: of your podcast. So take some time to do it. It matters, it will help, and it will 213 00:17:18,515 --> 00:17:22,596 [Mark]: set you up for success because once you've done it, you really don't that often 214 00:17:22,696 --> 00:17:29,258 [Mark]: need to redo it. So spend a bit of time up front doing it today. It will help you to 215 00:17:29,298 --> 00:17:35,880 [Mark]: stand out. But let me know how you get along at Mr. Asquith on Twitter or X, whatever 216 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:39,561 [Mark]: we're calling it these days. Let me know how you get along. And as I say, if you 217 00:17:39,601 --> 00:17:43,962 [Mark]: love the show, if it helps you, feel free, a little bit of beer. over at mark.live 218 00:17:44,742 --> 00:17:48,005 [Mark]: slash support. And until the next time, much love, keep doing what you do and just 219 00:17:48,025 --> 00:17:52,167 [Mark]: keep publishing, keep providing for your audience because they enjoy it and they 220 00:17:52,187 --> 00:17:55,169 [Mark]: need it, all right? So until the next time, take it easy. Adios for now.