Heather Shannon (00:02.254)

Hey friends, we are here with an episode today where we're gonna talk about the hidden reasons sex becomes frustrating in long-term relationships. Specifically, we're gonna get into four types of stories, four ways you're making meaning of sex and what's going on in your sex life that are not working for you. So let's imagine a couple, let's call them Camila and Bob, okay? So Bob, the husband, is feeling

hopeless and kind of helpless with their sex life. He has a high sex drive. Sex really sort of, you know, helps him feel like his best self. And Camila is feeling pressure. She's feeling like, I gotta fix this for my husband, right? And what's happening is that they're living two different storylines, two different movies about what sex is, what their sex life is. And they're not really even on the same page with that. So,

What happens here in these types of scenarios is that the hidden meanings that we're giving to the sexual scenarios in our life are causing pain. They're causing unnecessary emotional suffering, right? And so we're gonna go over those four specific patterns and you'll probably recognize yourself in at least one of them. And I also wanna do a little callback to the episode we had recently of the science of sexual desire where we talk about

The equation of desire equals attraction plus obstacles. So we're not even trying to get rid of obstacles necessarily, but we can change the way that we relate to them. And we're gonna talk about why certain stories cause more suffering. And I kind of want to distinguish between the pain of emotions that naturally come up and the suffering of resisting those emotions and telling us things

ourselves that things should not be this way. And so these stories, what's interesting about them, it's not about effort or lack of effort or if we're trying the right things or if we're making progress. It's really about these unconscious belief patterns that are kind of steering the ship without us always knowing that. All right, so let's jump in to story number one. So the first example, we're gonna call this guy Scott.

Heather Shannon (02:27.435)

And his story about sex is sex, and again, we're not saying if the stories are good or bad, but sex is filling up my tank, it's filling up my cup. And let's say he's married to Mary, okay? And he's feeling like this is just in Mary's hands, either she gets her libido back and I can feel okay again, or she doesn't. And so this leaves him feeling.

kind of hopeless, like, man, I don't know if she's going to, and also helpless, because there's nothing he can do. It's all in Mary's hands. That sounds terrible, right? So because of this dynamic and because of the story he has, what does he do? He withdraws emotionally. He is kind of like, you know, she doesn't want me to touch her right now. I don't think I'm gonna initiate. I've gotten rejected a bunch of times. I'm just gonna backpedal and go inside my little turtle shell.

Right? So it's a way that we protect ourselves emotionally. And normally when he is having sex regularly, when they have had sex in the past and had a really good sex life and felt connected, he feels like, wow, I'm better at work and I'm just like more energized and I'm more confident and I'm more kind of lit up inside. And he doesn't have a ton of other ways that he knows how to get that feeling.

And so his unconscious belief is that my wellbeing is depending on Mary's desire, right? And so I want us to look at this through a few different lenses that I think are gonna be really helpful for you guys. So first we're gonna look at it through an existential kink framework. And I'll probably be talking about this a little bit more throughout the year. Fingers crossed we can get the...

the author of the existential kink book on the show. So the idea though with existential kink and kink in general is we take something that's maybe frowned upon something that we quote unquote shouldn't want, right? Like, like, why would you want to be tied up and handcuffed? Why would you want to feel emotionally helpless or physically helpless? Right? It's not an emotion we think we want to feel, but

Heather Shannon (04:49.75)

having worked with many humans over decades, thousands of hours of coaching and counseling people, we do, we all have our patterns, we all create our drama. Okay, so what if part of him is like, kinda like feeling helpless, right? And I'm gonna own my own feelings, I love drama. I love drama so much, I do improv several days a week.

because I want to have a healthy outlet for it. But sometimes I think we need to own that like, is there part of me that is kind of getting off on being helpless and getting off on being the victim in this situation, getting off on having someone else to kind of point the finger at or getting off on even the game of how can we fix this and the chase of that? Like how can we resolve it? And

Sometimes we just want emotional intensity. So there could be something like that going on unconsciously. You might be aware enough, especially if you've done lots of therapy, that you might be like, oh, yes, part of me does want that. Maybe like 99 % of me doesn't, but there's at least 1 % that's like, okay, yeah. And you might be like, Heather, you're nuts. This is not something I want at all, good try. And that's fine too, because a lot of these processes operate

unconsciously. So you don't actually have to be aware of them. Sometimes, most of the time, it's easier to see it in other people. And you'll be like, they're totally creating this drama. And the idea is, whatever we have going on in our life, some part of us wanted that because some part of us contributed to creating that. So I think it's really interesting to look at. So that's one lens. And the idea of existential kink is that

Once we kind of acknowledge and can even relish a little bit in that 1 % of us that is kind of getting off on this otherwise very frustrating scenario, it frees up some of the energy. We stop resisting. And for those of you who are interested in consciousness and spirituality, I was a practicing Buddhist for 13 years. The idea of enlightenment or nirvana is lack of resistance.

Heather Shannon (07:11.65)

That's it. We just quit resisting what's happening. So it doesn't mean that painful things don't happen, but we stop adding more pain, which is referred to as suffering, by resisting it. So just feel the pain, move on. All right? So that's kind of the lesson of that. And then I also want us to look at this scenario where Scott is kind of seeing sex as fuel for his tank and something that's purely in Mary's hands through the lens of kind more of a cognitive approach.

So looking at how did he function before marriage? Did he have other ways to fill his tank? Did he ever have, you know, a few months when he was single where he didn't have sex with anyone? Was he cranky and miserable or did he find other outlets? So, you know, I know a lot of people that have a high sex drive and a lot of them channel that into other creative outlets. A lot of them,

physically move and work out or spend time in nature. so the idea is it's sexual energy, right? Sexual energy is creative energy. It creates life. But it doesn't always have to be directed at the physical act of sex, right? And so if we redirect that energy in another direction that might be fulfilling,

we could at least let's entertain the possibility that we could find another way of filling up our cup, right? And a lot of times when I talk to men, especially in this situation that Scott is in, you know, sometimes they are focused on one thing. Sometimes they already have some hobbies and they're like, yes, I am getting fulfillment in other areas, but it's still a struggle because maybe they're feeling impatient.

and there's also a story there, right? So my challenge to you as we're going through these is to find what is your story? What is your story that maybe is not working for you and could be getting in the way?

Heather Shannon (09:23.214)

All right, so I'm gonna edit that section out for a minute. Okay, so our next story, we're gonna go with Scott's wife, Mary. So Mary is in the situation of feeling like there's a pressure element or an obligation element to sex because she loves Scott and she's like, this man.

He is like a different human when he's getting regular sex and I don't wanna be the jerk who's like depriving him from being his best self. Like I do love this guy. We have a family together. We have a life together. And so sometimes Mary's like, yeah, I might just at least need to give him some hand jobs here and there or like I can do this for him. And it could be coming from this place of genuine compassion and empathy.

It also can lead to the type of sex where Mary's just kind of laying there and like not really into it, but like, we'll just check the box. We'll get it over with, because then he's going to be more pleasant to be around for the rest of the week if I just do this. And the unconscious belief in this scenario is I'm responsible for his emotional state, right? Like it's on me. So she's kind of buying into Scott's story in a lot of ways.

He's like, it's all in Mary's hands and Mary's like, it's all in my hands. You know, I can do this for him, right? Like I need to help him feel better. But then what does that lead to? It leads to disconnected sex. It leads to negative associations with sex because you're feeling like, you know, this is a box I need to check. This has nothing to do with my own pleasure. This is for my partner. And then Mary's own pleasure becomes.

more and more of a distant thought and sex is no longer for her. And then Scott's like, why aren't you into sex? And she's like, well, I'm never getting anything out of it because it's not about me. It's about you. So hopefully you guys can see why this is a problem. So I want to look at this example and there's there's a couple of different parts coming up here. So there's I'm responsible for his emotional state. This is something I have to do. This is not going to go well if I don't do it. And so

Heather Shannon (11:35.246)

If we look at this one through an internal family systems lens where we look at different emotional parts or aspects of who we are, it sounds like Mary has, it could be a people pleaser part. It could just be a high empathy part. Often those can go together. It could be a keeping the peace type of thing, right? That also goes with people pleasing. So let's just call it a people pleasing part.

So if Mary can start to understand her people pleasing part, and she might notice some physical elements, she might notice, get, when the people pleaser comes in, my shoulders go up an inch, right? It might be like, I gotta make this better, right? There might be some more tension in the upper chest. There might be some tension in the stomach or the throat, right? It's a little bit of anxiety. Like those are the places where anxiety tends to live.

because this anxiety is like, what if things continue this way, right? Anxiety is kind of on the fear spectrum. So there's some kind of fear there of, what if this continues? What if this erodes my marriage? It's like, that's all scary stuff, right? And so her people pleased her part is like, Mary, don't worry. I'm here to take care of things. We're not gonna let it get to that point. So that part has a good intention. And that's...

One of the most important things for us to recognize about our emotions, they're like little messengers, right? They're just like these little messenger guys that are like, hey, I'm over here. I'm trying to help because I love you so much and I don't want you to experience more pain than you have to. you know, I've learned from some of your past experiences what happens when people get mad at you or the damages things can, you know, that happens in relationships if we're not careful.

or maybe there was someone you had to walk on eggshells around in the past. And so this part is kind of like we gotta keep the peace, right? So what we can do with this part is then bring some self energy into it. So the self energy is like the internal parent, like a really perfect, well not perfect, but pretty close.

Heather Shannon (13:50.816)

a pretty wonderful parent that's like unconditionally loving and it's like, little people, please are part. You're so cute. I see all these wonderful things you're trying to do for me. Do you like doing this role? Right. And when you're coming from a place of not judging the people, please are part, not being frustrated at it, not even being like numb or neutral towards it, but actually being in a place of curiosity and compassion and sort of a calm state.

that's gonna help you have the best results with parts work, right? And so when we understand what's the motivation of this part, what's it trying to do, does it even like doing this? I would say at least half the time when I'm doing this work with clients, these emotional parts don't even really like doing their jobs, they just kind of don't know another way. And so we can make progress by updating those parts and bring them present, they might be stuck in the past.

They might not understand the options and the capabilities that you have in the present. We can also get to a point where we understand what is the exiled part that this people pleaser is protecting. So the people pleaser, we know it's a protector part because it's kind of performing a function to keep you safe in some way emotionally. But it could be a part of, you know, there could be a part that's like, I feel not good enough.

There's a part that I've exiled that feels not good enough. And if my relationships are damaged, if they're not harmonious, that part comes up. And that's kind of worst case scenario, walking around feeling not good enough all day. And so sometimes the people-pleaser part will kind of be like, you know what? You seem calm and compassionate and great. I trust you. Go ahead and talk to this one that feels not good enough. And then...

we can do an unburdening where the one that's been walking around feeling not good enough can kind of release all of these burdens and traumas that it's been walking around with. And so we're really doing some healing at the root level. And it's not then that we get rid of the people pleaser part after that, but that part does wind up shifting roles. It doesn't have to protect anymore in the way that it was. So it can be more of a conscious choice of like, what role does that part want? What part do we want that role to have?

Heather Shannon (16:13.006)

which is pretty cool. So the idea is, you know, why do we even want to change this? Because then we get to authentic sex, right? Which is what everyone wants, right? In this example, Mary's husband, Scott, he wants her to be into it. He doesn't want her to just be laying there. That's no fun. We all want to feel wanted. And how can we feel wanted if someone's just going through the motions? So that's why we do this emotional work so that we can actually have the type of sex that

connects us and yes, it does fill our cup even if it's not the only thing filling our cup, which gets us into our third story.

Heather Shannon (17:00.428)

Okay, edit this part out.

Okay, so then we have story number three. And this one is called sex is validation. So this should not be shocking. A while back when I was a little bit more active on Instagram, I surveyed my followers and I think like 80 % of people said they've used sex for validation. So why do we do this? I think it's because we're selective a lot of times in who we wanna have sex with.

And so being chosen allows us to feel special. Who doesn't want to feel special, right? And so we want this, especially when it's someone you're in a long-term relationship with, there's kind of this magical cocktail of feeling comfortable and feeling some attraction and just enjoying the aesthetic of somebody and having shared values and feeling safe to be vulnerable and having this like shared pleasure and fun.

And that's, that is pretty magical, right? We know it's not necessarily easy to find that. So when this person that we feel this way about also feels that way about us, it's like, woo, magical. We're firing on all cylinders here. So I think what can happen in a long-term relationship, and we all also know this, is that we can get really comfortable, but lose sort of the hot and sexy aspect. So to know like, we still have the hot and sexy aspect.

we know that that is a special thing too. When we're not there, we're feeling a little bit more vulnerable. We're feeling like, huh, what's kind of off in my connection right now? We might over effort and try to control the situation and like force it to be better. We might blame ourselves because that feels like it's more in our control.

Heather Shannon (18:58.19)

It can be hard to be patient in this situation because especially if you're monogamous, you can't really get it elsewhere. So it's not like when you're single and you're like, well, I at least have the illusion that I could go find someone to have sex with tonight or this weekend or whenever. And so it can lead to kind of ruminating, becoming a bit more needy, being bad at hiding the fact that you're ruminating and feeling a bit more needy.

And inadvertently creating that pressure, which I've said in many episodes, is sort of the antithesis of sexy desire. So what's behind this seeking sex for validation is this unconscious belief that I'm only valuable if somebody desires me. so it's similar to what we brought up in the last example where there can be this exiled part that feels not good enough or unlovable.

And there's this other part that's sort of seeking sex is a way to prove that that's not the case, right? And so the seeking of sex or even the ruminating can be an attempt to, I mean, it is an attempt to help you feel okay and to prevent you from feeling awful, right? So again, there's a certain type of logic to our emotional parts and to the stories that they have.

But this is where we can get into a little bit more thought work. Your story creates your reality, right? So if the story is, I'm only valuable if someone desires me, what emotion are you going to feel around that? It might be a little bit dejected. It might be a little insecure because your value is conditional, right? And so what I believe and what I want to share with everybody is

You're inherently valuable because you're a human, right? All humans, think, have inherent value. Just by virtue of being alive, it's not something that I think we have to earn or be a certain way. It's like we all deserve loving care. Do we all get that? No. But there is an inherent value there. But because we've gone through different situations in life, parts of us will have these beliefs that it is conditional.

Heather Shannon (21:21.55)

And so when we have that and then we're feeling insecure because of that, we might take certain actions that are like, oh, I'm gonna try to dress really nice so that I get some compliments so that I feel less insecure. And then let's say that works. And then the result is that you're getting some compliments and you are feeling a little bit of a boost, but it's also reinforcing that idea of like, I only feel good enough.

I only feel secure enough when I'm getting this external feedback, right? And so what we wanna do, presumably, it's gonna be a better feeling option, is creating a feeling of secure or creating a story in which we're valuable anyways and lovable anyways. So that might look like instead of,

I'm only valuable if somebody wants to have sex with me or if my long-term partner wants to have sex with me, it might look like my value has nothing to do with that. It might look like my partner is a complex creature and there's a lot going on and they might still feel comfortable with me and think I'm pleasing to the eye and have shared values and feel comfortable being vulnerable, but for some reason, because of their hormones or because of their stress levels or because of...

their unconscious beliefs about their own sexual energy, they're not able to flip that switch and get into sex mode very easily right now. And so it could just be, that actually has nothing to do with me. OK, so I'm now free in this new scenario. It's like, OK, well, so let's create a story where I feel free. I feel good about myself. And maybe I still get some nice external feedback, but I'm not counting on that.

to help me feel a certain way. Because whenever we're counting on the external feedback to feel how we want to feel, we are kind of a victim. We're at the mercy of everyone else except for ourselves. And so that makes us not resilient. If we have the internal security, we then can boost ourselves. And so it might be some people do affirmations. For some people, it's...

Heather Shannon (23:39.542)

you know, meditation or religion or working out or spending time with friends, but focus on the things that are at least in your control. And when you have not great days, remember that it's an opportunity actually to practice reminding yourself that and I'm still good enough, you know? So, for example, I am recording this podcast on Sunday night before it was published. And I was like, I got to stop doing this.

That doesn't in fact my value as a person, right? That has nothing to do with my inherent value. And so I'm practicing too. It's like, okay, let's quit making it conditional, right? We're all out there doing lots of wonderful things. Okay. Now story four. So this one is a bit different. This one is about sex as a transaction. So you might be having sex so that your partner isn't pouty.

So it does connect to some of the previous ones. So your partner isn't low energy and it might feel worth it to you for doing that, but it's to get a result. So it's like, I do this and then you do this, right? It's kind of that quid pro quo. And it's not going to really have that level of, you know, love and connection or excitement or fulfillment because it is coming from a more transactional place.

Now, this also might happen when you are a partner who wants more sex and you might feel like, all right, like we're working on our relationship, like my job. Let's say there's a husband who wants more sex. Let's call him Randy, that seems appropriate. So Randy wants more sex and he's like, I'm gonna be the best husband I can be and I'm gonna.

do more stuff with helping out with the kids and I'm gonna do more stuff with the household and I'm gonna go get my partner's oil change for her and all these great things. And then he's kinda like, is she trying at all? Like I'm not even getting, I'm not getting any sex. And so then it can kind of create this feeling of imbalance unintentionally, you know, it's like he was coming from a good place with like, I'm gonna show up as my best self. But then he was like, oh, but.

Heather Shannon (26:02.094)

She's not I guess I thought she would too or I guess if she was too I thought it would look differently or And then so when that gets expressed as it does in some relationships like you know Hey, I'm doing this this this and you can't even give me a hand job once in a while that then makes the sex feel very transactional which then for especially for a female partner then might be like well this has no appeal now, right if

if sex is conditional or if you having a positive attitude is going to be conditional on me performing sex for you, then that again takes all of her pleasure out of it. So what do we do in this situation? We do a reframe. So this is another way to practice working through some of these stories that we have. So instead of framing it as sex should be for Randy,

What if it's reframed as, what if both people enjoy this? What is it gonna take for both people to enjoy some sort of sexual connection? Again, it doesn't have to be intercourse, it doesn't have to be oral sex, it doesn't have to be any certain thing. And in fact, I strongly encourage people to not be black and white about it. Find the gray, right? What would it look like if you just made out? What would it look like?

if you did something with a sex toy? What if you did something kinky, but then there was no sexual component? It was more of creating tension and anticipation and just kind of getting the mental juices flowing. So there's lots of options there. And so I also want to be clear with this is we're reframing it to sex should be for both partners enjoyment and it should be a reflection of the connection that's there.

not something that's a check mark or I do this for you, you do this for me. It does still take effort, right? Especially in a long-term relationship. But this is how you know when it's healthy and when it isn't. If you feel like you're going against what you actually want, that is not a healthy path to stay on, right? So if you're just like, I hate this, but I have to do it. No. Or if you feel like,

Heather Shannon (28:19.48)

hey, I really want sex and so I'm doing all these things to try to make it happen. I would actually encourage you to back off a little bit more and to invite you to get a little bit more curious towards your partner and what she needs to feel safe enough emotionally, as usually the case, sometimes physically, sometimes emotionally, to want to be vulnerable with you in that way.

Right? And so you might think, oh, look at me. I'm showing up. I'm doing all these amazing things. She's not even noticing or doing her part. But it could be, it's kind of like a love language thing. It's like, okay, you're like a radio station. It's like, you're on station 99.1 and she's over here at like 107.3. And like, you're not even on the same frequency. So like, yeah, you're making a lot of effort here if that's what she needed. But if that's not what she needs at all, then you gotta adapt, right? And so this is where communication skills can really help.

This is where a coach or a therapist can really help to help you guys get on the same frequencies, or at least having the same conversation. And that's really what this episode is about today, is let's make sure we're having the right conversations and let's make sure we are aware of these unconscious stories that are getting in the way. Okay, so I'm going to introduce another concept here that's going to tie it all together.

that is called the motivational triad. So in the motivational triad, we're seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, and conserving energy. And so this works against most of our goals as a human. Sorry. It's great for short-term survival, right? And that's why we've adapted as humans to have this motivational triad. But it's not good for long-term goals.

shifting the dynamic in our sex lives in our long-term relationship, right? That's something that's gonna happen over the course of months, right? Not just like a day or two. So when we're conserving energy, we're like, we'll just keep doing it the same way. We'll just keep repeating our cycle, right? That's conserving energy. Trying to like learn and do it new and feel awkward and uncomfortable and not be as good at it right off the bat is not conserving energy. It's also not avoiding pain, right? Because...

Heather Shannon (30:41.46)

I think it can make you so much closer to have some of these conversations and lead to a great sex life. But sometimes you're going directly into the pain and you kind of have to go through it to get to the other side. And then of course they're seeking pleasure, right? Sex tends to be pretty pleasurable. It's high up there on the list of pleasurable things in life. And it's great that we're seeking sex to a certain degree, but when it becomes needy, when it becomes a rumination,

We're also kind of working against our own best interests. So let's just be aware of the motivational triad and how that is behind some of these stories. And what I want really, my purpose in sharing this is for you to be compassionate with yourself and kind of be like, okay, if I'm falling into one of these stories, first of all, so are most people. Secondly, I'm only human. I'm literally wired this way, right? But listening to this podcast,

is activating our frontal lobe. And the frontal lobe is the hero of the story that can come through and be like, hey, emotional parts, hey, motivational triad, love you so much, and you're not going to be running the show anymore, right? I'm going to be making the plans. I'm going to be intentional and making conscious choices, and we're going to be doing things a little bit differently around here. Said with love, right? So there's tools out there, right? IFS, existential kink.

Hypnosis is another good one. can't really hypnotize you very well as a group on a podcast, but it's a great one. EMDR. But that's what's going to help us get at these unconscious layers. Right. So the goal through podcasts, through coaching, through therapy is to make more of it conscious, which is great. But typically where we feel stuck, there's something going on on that unconscious layer. And that's where we need these other tools that go beyond just talking about it.

All right, so in closing, what are you telling yourself? What are you getting out of this struggle? What part is protecting you? Right? It's uncomfortable, but this is where the breakthrough happens. So thank you everybody for listening, and we will catch you next week on another episode of Ask a Sex Therapist. Bye for now.