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[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there, and a very warm welcome to Season five, episode nine of People's Soup. It's Ross McIntosh.

[00:00:06] Andrea: But yeah,

[00:00:06] Coaching with collage

[00:00:06] Andrea: that's how I ended up coaching with collage and, and you know, developing it, just using it with lots of different groups. I've used it with young people around self-esteem. I've used it with carers around wellbeing, a journey through grief, leadership teams for creating their visions. But strategic planning, team building, it lends itself so easily to many different, The situations, different contexts Yeah. Cause it's very flexible. although the process stays exactly the same, it just lends itself because it's essentially looking at our internal processes

[00:00:42] Ross: P supers. You've just heard Andrea Watts talking about the flexibility of her coaching through collage process. I'm so excited to share this conversation with Andrea who uses collage to help people look inside and surface what's going on for them and how it might be impacting on their behavior in coaching, we could imagine our clients are like an iceberg. There's a lot going on beneath the surface and through the development of our collage coaching technique, Andrea allows her clients to explore and reveal their inner world in a new and innovative way. Andrea is an entrepreneur. Her business is called Unglue you. And her book is called Collage as a Creative Coaching Tool, a comprehensive resource for coaches and psychologists.

[00:01:25] Ross: We'll speak more about the book next time, but first of all, let's get to know Andrea, her career path, a bit of a science behind the approach, how she uses act alongside collage with our clients, and of course, her song. Andrea is an inspiration, and you'll also find out why I've called this episode The Girl Beneath The Blanket [00:02:00] People Soup is an award-winning podcast where we share evidence-based behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun to help you glow to work a bit more often.

[00:02:12] Ross: Let's just scoot over to the news desk for reviews are in for part two of my chat with Dr. Haley Lewis. and this is from Maxine Kain on LinkedIn, and Maxine is a senior educational psychologist.

[00:02:24] Ross: This was such a fascinating listen and resonated with me so. As a new business owner, I went four days a week last week, who was working with Dr. Haley Lewis. It sang to me, I'm all about being authentic, helping and supporting others, and creating collaborations and community. It feels so liberating to be investing in me and to being autonomous.

[00:02:46] Ross: Hope. Optimism, self-efficacy and resilience are at my core. Well, Maxine, thanks so much for listening and congratulations on your new. With your strong values and working alongside Hailey, I look forward to hearing about how your adventure develops.

[00:03:02] Ross: Thanks to everyone who listened, rated and reviewed, talked about it with a friend, recommended the podcast. With your help, we can reach more people with staff. That could be useful, but for now, get aru on and have a listen to part one of my chat with Andrea Watts.

[00:03:18] Ross: Andrea Watts, welcome to People Soup.

[00:03:27] Andrea: Hi Ross. Really good to be here.

[00:03:29] Ross: Oh, I'm, I'm delighted to have you here, so Thanks for joining me. Now, Andrea, as you'll be aware, I have a research department who delve a bit into your background to help the listeners understand who you are and appreciate you and what you do. So I thought I'd share with you what they've gleaned and you can just let me know whether they're on the right lines or not.

[00:03:50] Ross: They don't always get everything right. Okay, so it says here, Andrea is a fellow honorary lecturer on the MSC and organizational psychology [00:04:00] at City University of London. And we all love the way you set out your story. Andrea, on your website@unuglueyou.co.uk so I thought, what better way to introduce you to the P supers than to read that out, if that's

[00:04:14] Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

[00:04:16] Ross: So p supers, are you sitting comfortably? Because we have Andrea's story for you. There was once a small child who loved cutting, gluing, and making things.

[00:04:26] Ross: The small child grew up and while studying art discovered she was pregnant. She thought that making a baby was the most amazing thing she could do, and decided to stop studying. Eventually, she worked for organizations that made no money, that helped lots of people. She liked this, but missed creating things.

[00:04:43] Ross: So did an art therapy foundation. here. She learned useful stuff.

[00:04:47] Ross: Like images are really good for exploring and expressing how you feel, what you're thinking and your ideas. What it looks like isn't important. It's the process that matters. She also realized that being an art therapist wasn't her thing. So it sounds like a bit of a, a pivotal moment there.

[00:05:02] Ross: Andrea

[00:05:03] Andrea: it was a learning curve.

[00:05:04] Ross: will, will come back to

[00:05:06] Ross: that, to that. So what happened next in this story? She applied this knowledge to a new project when asked to run a session to help bereave carers understand their journey through grief. When she'd said yes, the head screened no because she had no idea what to do. Then she remembered what she'd learned from art therapy and decided to use collage.

[00:05:25] Ross: Everyone enjoyed and benefited from it. The next year, someone came back with their collage and used it to share their story. This happened three years in a row and actually still continues to this day.

[00:05:36] Andrea: Hmm.

[00:05:36] Ross: And then in our story, we fast forward three years and she's considering changing jobs. She spoke to a clever lady who suggested drawing a picture about her opportunities, so she did, but knew the stick people in her drawing weren't helping her. Instead, she made a collage because it meant cutting and gluing.

[00:05:54] Ross: When she found a picture of a small child under a blanket, it made her feel quite sad. [00:06:00] Recognizing she felt like that child hidden, stifled and unable to express herself creatively, she decided to leave her job. And peace Supers, you'll see in Andrea's book that very image of the small, child under a blanket, and the way you describe is just so powerful and moving.

[00:06:17] Andrea: Yeah, whenever I share my story, I share that collage and I start with, with that, how I felt and how it gave me the words Cause I knew I wasn't happy, but it gave me the words. And I always share how, actually the moment I saw that image, I had a really strong physical reaction.

[00:06:35] Andrea: Like this intake of breath, oh my goodness, this is how I feel. Cause I hadn't realized, you know, just how unhappy I guess I was or how, um, stifled I'd, I'd felt. I mean, it was a, it was a great organization and, they were very supportive, but it just wasn't for me anymore. So, yeah, very powerful. That image just still means, uh, a lot to me now.

[00:06:57] Andrea: Um, and can I share something?

[00:07:00] Ross: of course.

[00:07:01] Andrea: So I've been sharing that sort and telling people about my reaction to it. And then while I was writing the book, because, um, one of the things that came more to the fore for me was how images resonate with us more. If we have a personal connection, they, they form from our experiences and memories and our culture anyway, but they resonate more strongly if there's a direct connection. And I thought, so why did that image connect with me so much? And this is 10 years later, right? And a memory came to me when I was a child. I was about six years old. I was playing hide and seek with my sisters. And, um, it was in the days where you didn't have duvets, you had these big, blankets that were filled with.

[00:07:46] Andrea: Down, you know, duck feathers really, and they're all embr.

[00:07:49] Too good a place to hide

[00:07:49] Andrea: Anyway, and the bed hadn't been made, so it was crumpled up on the bed. So I crawled underneath it. I thought it would be a good place to hide. It was too good a place to hide because my sisters [00:08:00] couldn't find me. And while it was fun at first, the longer I stayed under there, this blanket's heavy.

[00:08:05] Andrea: It's hot, it's dark. And I realized that was the connection. Cause I actually had an embodied experience with it. I had had that experience. So, um, it was like, oh my goodness, there's there's more for me in there. And it then made me think about, you know, how responsible was I at that time in my job for being under the blanket, you know, what role did I play?

[00:08:25] Andrea: And I've not thought about that before because in my memory with that experience of playing hide and seek, in the end I had to come out. I had to be the one to take the blanket off. Cause I never got found. and it made me think how sometimes we don't recognize that actually when we feel stuck in the situation, what role we can play in coming out, in opening that door or whatever metaphor or image comes up for clients, actually what, what role do I play in it?

[00:08:52] Ross: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that cuz it really gives me goosebumps you make me think for our listeners, how many of us are feeling like we are under that blanket and neith are not being discovered or not taking the action ourselves to emerge from that blanket. And it reminds me from one of our previous guests, Mike Jones, and it is a quote I hate to look up during the chat with him.

[00:09:15] Ross: And he, there's a quote from Abraham Maslow who said the story of the human race is the story of men and women selling themselves short.

[00:09:23] Andrea: yes. Yeah, I like that. it's true. I was just thinking about my experiences with coaching, with collage and, uh, this common thread that can come through for the clients and, and the recognition through that process of really going, internally, and recognizing I am more than what I think I am. that the case study in the book about a, a coach, she's a psychologist, and her view of what it means to be a psychologist or meant, I should say, and, um, it's got this image, of, of a, a man in a suit. And that was her [00:10:00] impression of what a coach should look like, how they should be. Cause she associated behaviors with it as well. And because that wasn't her, she sold herself short. She didn't think she was good enough because she wasn't that. And when she realized that she was that and more, and by that I don't mean that man, that kind of her view of what it meant to be a coach in terms of charging, um, lots of money and being very, um, people can't see.

[00:10:25] Andrea: But the idea of professional, rather than being herself, I need to clarify there. I think she is professional, but you know, people have ideas of what it means to be professional, don't they? And, and it's quite a narrow view I think. ways of dressing, ways of speaking, types of education. and she didn't see herself in that role.

[00:10:44] Andrea: But once she recognized, actually, I have a great skillset. I can develop programs, I can work with individuals, I can work with teams, I can take things off the shelf, but I can also deliver really bespoke, especially for the, the clients. She's like, oh my goodness, I, I am enough actually, I am enough.

[00:11:04] Andrea: And it made such a huge difference for her in terms of how she then responded to opportunities that came her way because she'd stopped selling herself short..

[00:11:13] Ross: Beautiful. It's such a treat to listen to you, Andrea and p supers. you'll have gathered by now that Andrea is a beautiful storyteller. You really make it relevant and intriguing with, with the reflections from you and your clients in the book.

[00:11:29] Ross: There's a bit more from, from my research department, so just continuing that story. So remember where we left it was the child under the blanket. Recognizing she felt like that child hidden, stifled and unable to express herself creatively. She decided to leave her job. It was time to do something creative. Remembering what she'd learned about therapy and how the bereaved carers said collaging really helped them and how it had helped her.

[00:11:55] Ross: She thought this could help a lot more people. So she took a leap [00:12:00] of faith and created a business called ung You. And today, UNG you offers a whole host of services including group workshops, one-to-one coaching, c p d training for coaches and supervision, keynote speaking. And they also uncovered something that maybe not a lot of people know.

[00:12:19] Ross: Andrea, they said for 10 years you were a Salesforce database administrator You did this for a charity alongside ung you, some people might call it a side hustle, Andrea, and it might sound like the polar opposite and contradictory to the creativity of coaching with collage, but I suspect he probably gonna tell me it wasn't Any, any reflections on that?

[00:12:42] Andrea: Yeah. I quite like the fact that I did this because it's a really good way of helping people to recognize that creativity. Moving away from that left brain, right brain, thinking about it being neural networks, because you would never put. Salesforce database administration with coaching with Collage you'd think they'd have to be two separate people.

[00:13:03] Andrea: Right. but I actually really liked it. you know, I had to do things like create validation rules, workflows, dashboards. There was a lot of, very data driven work, create reports for the, for the teams. But I only did it like, um, by the end, only just three hours a week. But I enjoyed it because there was storytelling in it.

[00:13:25] Andrea: The data told a story, so there was that part of it. And if you know how to look for it, you can find out and, having that information, it told stories that then allowed the teams to be like, okay, how do we use our services? Where do we put our time? Where do we put our energy based on what the data is telling us?

[00:13:42] Andrea: And secondly, for me, it involved a lot of creative problem solving. Because the team was, big and there were many different teams within the organization and they supported, it was a carers organization. They supported carers in different ways. [00:14:00] And so they'd work with carers with dementia, drug and alcohol, substance misuse, young carers and mental health.

[00:14:08] Andrea: And so they had these separate teams and they needed to work together. but it was hard because they were putting data in, in different ways. And so sometimes they'd ask me to do something and I'd have to be like, okay, how am I gonna, how am I gonna solve this? How am I gonna resolve this and, and make it work for the organization?

[00:14:27] Andrea: So then I would go into, okay, what do I already know? And that was drawing. On my Imagination Network. I'm jumping head maybe a little bit here about the creativity side of it, cognitive creativity. But, but it allowed me then to think that what do I already know? Do a bit of research, I'm gathering all this data and then I have to make sense of it.

[00:14:46] Andrea: I have to edit, I rationalize it. But between that I'm playing, I'm playing with the system. Lemme try this. Let me try that. So just to me, it mirrored the collage coaching technique I was gathering, I was creating, and then the storytelling. Once I'd resolved it, they were able to story tell with the data.

[00:15:02] Andrea: And so for me, there's this huge parallels between that kind of more data driven, what's considered scientific, approaches in work to coaching with college or any arts-based method or any more what people consider the traditional creativity.

[00:15:20] Things aren't in silos

[00:15:20] Andrea: And for me, one of the big things about the approach is that understanding that things aren't in silos.

[00:15:26] Andrea: learning takes place across many different disciplines. and when we learn to bring them together, when we understand how they fit together or how we can use them together, the learning and the outcomes are so much better. I think I just really strongly believe that, there's something just, there's something called STEM, right?

[00:15:44] Andrea: where it's Science Technology. I think it's Engineering and Math. In America, they call it STEAM because they include the arts,

[00:15:50] Ross: Ooh.

[00:15:51] Andrea: and I think, I wish we did that. Yeah.

[00:15:54] Ross: Oh, I didn't know they called it Steam in America. But hearing you speak makes, makes me [00:16:00] think about how we can really become inflexibly trapped by a job title. like Salesforce database administrator. It just sounds, oh,

[00:16:11] Andrea: Really dry, right?

[00:16:13] Ross: it sounds like there is not one iotta of creativity in that description and that could influence how someone shows up or approaches that, job, and they could just be completely.

[00:16:25] Ross: Un sighted on the creative aspects that they could bring or unleash to fulfill that role. That's, that's really quite tremendous. And you know what else makes me think, interviewed, our Haley Lewis who did research on female entrepreneurship and Haley talked about how quite often female entrepreneurs like you, they started out with, going part-time from a job and, and balancing that with their new venture.

[00:16:52] Ross: But what you've done is added a layer to that and realized the crossover between the job and the new venture and how they are absolutely complimentary and not in these separate containers.

[00:17:04] Andrea: Yeah. It was quite hard for me to give, give it up. I gave it up. It was this, no, last year now. Um, so it's a hundred percent gl you. and I thought, will I lose something by doing that? But it just felt it was the right time to give a hundred percent to, and that I needed to in order to keep moving it in the direction or travel.

[00:17:23]

[00:17:23] Ross: And do you feel you're completely, I dunno how to put this, do you feel like you've completely emerged from under the blanket?

[00:17:31] Andrea: Oh yes I do. Cuz on that, co I was talking about that first one I created. There was a woman dancing in red. She's positioned above the girl under the blanket. Next to the girl under the blanket is another little girl with a hand up. And I knew she was gonna be like, it's time to come out now.

[00:17:46] Andrea: And while it's the case, you know, dragging the blanket off by bit. Yeah, I definitely don't feel stifled anymore. I don't feel hidden. I don't feel I'm unable to express myself in the way that I wanted to, like [00:18:00] the woman in red dancing. cause I love dancing and I know what it feels like and what it means to me to dance and to live my life like that.

[00:18:08] Andrea: And again, it's a metaphor. Obviously. I'm not literally dancing about all the time. but that idea of that freedom, that being able to express all of who I am, the energy that that brings, cuz it's red, that's a high higher energy because I'm not doing a job that I don't enjoy. I'm doing something I love, so I have more energy for it.

[00:18:28] Andrea: the mindfulness bit, because the lady's got her head down that she's really absorbed in the moment. But the idea of flow that she sent me, Haley, um, theorized that idea of flow and being fully immersed in something. With an element of challenge. So yeah, definitely out from under the blank here, forever dancing.

[00:18:48] Ross: Wonderful. And so that's a little insight from the research department, but I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing a bit more about your background and your career, how you've got to where you are today, and some, some, maybe a couple of pivotal moments along the way.

[00:19:03] Andrea: Mm-hmm. So, yeah, my, you know, I talked about having my daughter and I first went into retail, you know, sometimes life you just go with the flow, don't you? Rather than, kind of carving your direction. And so I just needed to work. So I worked in retail first, moved into the voluntary sector because I wanted a job where I felt I was making a difference.

[00:19:26] Andrea: Um, and that wasn't the case in retail. I actually wanted to be an occupational therapist, but, um, , I couldn't find a job in it. So, um, I worked as a hobby therapist was my first job working with elderly people doing activities. So it allowed that creative thing again. Then I worked for Leonard Cheshire and that was one of my favorite jobs.

[00:19:48] Andrea: It was one, the job I was in longest before UnglueYou and it was working with, the residents over course it was a care home who had profound learning and physical disabilities. And again, really [00:20:00] allowed me to think creatively cuz it was like, how could they be enabled to engage in activities really meaningfully.

[00:20:09] Andrea: And, and also that idea of empowerment. So we'd have team Meetings And they would decide what they were gonna do, they would decide which volunteers would come in. and that hadn't been the case before. So it's very much, if somebody can't use their hands, what equipment can we provide for them that enables them to type, but without using their hands so they have something they could put on their head with a pointer.

[00:20:30] Andrea: But it was a lot of, again, creative problem solving, but also that the idea of empowering people to live their best lives within the limitations that they had. And, and that's physical limitations and, and understand limitations that are imposed on them by society. And how do we overcome that? How do we work with or try and get rid of those barriers?

[00:20:50] Andrea: So I, I loved that job and I know how important relationships are to me, and they still are. And to working with the people, getting to know them. , you know, they were almost like a second family to be honest, because you were just with them every single day. but I did love that job and I did well in that job and I learned a lot about myself and the things that bring me joy.

[00:21:13] Andrea: And then I moved into another charity, two more charity. And when I look back, I can see how, cuz the next one was an advocate, mental health advocate. finding information on the client's behalf and then they would make the choice. So it wasn't about me saying, I think that's the best thing you should do.

[00:21:28] Andrea: We didn't give advice and, and that I've brought with me into coaching, you know, cause that's not what we do. It's like, This is how I can support you, but actually you have to make that decision. Even if with when I worked for powers, like, well, I'm not sure that's a great decision. You wouldn't say, you'd just be like, okay, this could be the potential outcome if you do this, and they would choose.

[00:21:46] Andrea: So again, when I look back, I can see how the jobs I've had feed into where I am now and that I needed to do those jobs before I could do this one. The last one was the carer center. and then I said I [00:22:00] wasn't happy in that job anymore because there were huge cuts because of that 2008 banking crisis.

[00:22:06] Andrea: And I was the lead for training and development. And so I was supporting staff through the redundancy process. I had my own office as in an office building, and we had to close two of our offices. I was responsible for that. It was very, just stressful time and, and particularly for for people.

[00:22:24] Andrea: And I'm a real feelings person when I've done my M B T I and E N F J and I realized, you know, I were so feelings led. so between that and the fact that I knew I wanted to do something more creative, I'd done a degree in management studies. Um, we were succession planning. I was actually succession planning to be the ceo, but left to start and glue you.

[00:22:46] Andrea: But as part of that, I did this degree and I deliberately chose Kingston Uni because I wanted to do creativity and leadership. Because I think, how can I marry creativity and my leadership role? And that's when I found out about the neuroscience of creativity. I was like, oh, okay. Um, cause I, you know, was an artist first and foremost, and I was like, I just, you know, I didn't think about what's happening in my mind.

[00:23:09] Andrea: I just thought, what's I'm doing with my hands? so that was really, again, really insightful, really useful for me.

[00:23:15] Not being yourself anymore

[00:23:15] Andrea: And then, cuz I wasn't happy in my job, it was really impacting my wellbeing, Ross really. and I don't know if any of the P Souper listeners have, have felt this way. You feel like you are turning into somebody you don't wanna be, you're not being yourself anymore.

[00:23:28] Andrea: And I was really conscious that this was happening to me. And so I went to see a careers coach, and she did a visualization exercise. And where do you wanna be one year, five year, 10, et cetera. And I thought about the doors opening and she said to me, Go and draw it. And that's the bit that's part of the story.

[00:23:45] Andrea: and I created that collage. It gave me the, the incentive, it's actually called the decision cuz I was like, I am not prepared to keep feeling like the girl under a blanket that I just could not go back to that. And [00:24:00] so I saved up and I hand in my notice. there was something else as well that the work with the carers using the, the process and the difference it had made to them, that also impacted my decision.

[00:24:11] Andrea: But yeah,

[00:24:11] Coaching with collage

[00:24:11] Andrea: that's how I ended up coaching with collage and, and you know, developing it, just using it with lots of different groups. I've used it with young people around self-esteem. I've used it with carers around wellbeing, a journey through grief, leadership teams for creating their visions. But strategic planning, team building, it lends itself so easily to many different, The situations, different contexts Yeah. Cause it's very flexible. although the process stays exactly the same, it just lends itself because it's essentially looking at our internal processes

[00:24:46] Ross: I, I, listening to you, I, I see you as someone who's really open and curious about your own experience of life and the, the world of work, and also an explorer, kind of a relentless explorer, knowing that you are moving towards discovering something, and even with the uncertainty of not knowing what that is, keeping going through the undergrowth and making some pretty bold decisions,

[00:25:12] Andrea: I really like afraid keep going through the undergrowth because, You can't see where you're going. yeah, cuz one my friend, when I was in the early years of one clue You, it was really hard to be honest because people would be like, it's a vision board. I'm like, it's not a vision board. So I spent a lot of my time trying to educate people.

[00:25:31] Andrea: but as you said, I am incredibly curious and I was like, this, this works. Why does it work? Why does it work? So I do lots of research on it, and that became the basis of my talk, the science behind the art, which became the basis of the book. but, but I like that idea of the undergrowth when my friend described it, when it was really challeng and I said, I feel like I'm working really hard and I'm trying to get the message out there.

[00:25:54] Andrea: Not much is happening, in fact feels like nothing is happening. and he said, it's like mining, you know, you've got [00:26:00] big pick acts. And he said, just keep going. And little chunks have falling off. And one day the light pin prick of light will come through and then you keep going. And you, and I always loved that.

[00:26:09] Andrea: That analogy, I like yours too, because I love outdoors and nature and walking in the woods. So the idea that undergrowth, you know, and pushing through it and not being clear where you're going, but still going anyway,

[00:26:20] Ross: sometimes we can give up just before that pinpoint of light. Appears or just before we discover something new in, in the undergrowth . I'm not sure how that, that metaphor works with that, but, um, yeah. I'm intrigued about the name ung. You

[00:26:39] Ross: tell us the process about coming up with that name.

[00:26:42] Andrea: I can't claim, what's it called cuz I didn't name it. My husband did. My husband's such a wordsmith. So I , I've actually kept all the different names, I'm wanting to call it. One of them was mist to mirror every time we said it out loud. Sorry, missed taira. And I was like, I'm not gonna keep explaining that it's missed to a mirror.

[00:27:00] Andrea: So I like, I had fogged to folk focus, I had all kinds of things, but then I mapped out what it does on a big flip chart paper. It was, and I just wrote it all down. I did little doodles. I showed it to my husband and I said, what do you think I should call it? I've been working on it for a month.

[00:27:14] Andrea: What do you think? And he looked at it. He went, UNG Glue you. I was like, that's it. That's the name. and I love the name and lots of people, it's really memorable. That's what it says on the tin. And everybody really loves it. And I'm like, yep. Wish I could say it was me.

[00:27:30] Andrea: But it wasn't.

[00:27:32] Ross: But it's, it's a, it's a family

[00:27:34] Andrea: Yes.

[00:27:35] USING ACT

[00:27:35] Ross: Now you and me first met, if I've got this right, we first met on an ACT course Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Course Coaching with Joe Oliver and Jon Hill

[00:27:45] Andrea: Yeah.

[00:27:46] Ross: and that's when I first heard about your work and got really intrigued by it.

[00:27:50] Ross: Have you found that act has been useful in, in developing your, your concept and your work?

[00:27:57] Andrea: Yes. I use, act alongside it [00:28:00] because some of the, techniques we were taught when clients have created their collage and they may have, I don't know, pick from stone and they say, I feel like that's within me and it's in a certain place. I use that. Um, the two of the exercises I use quite a bit, the visualization of. do you remember the one where you take it out and you put it so that it's external for the p supers, It's an exercise where you're experiencing an emotion and trying to imagine where it might be in your body, feeling the physical sensation and then bringing that out from the body to explore it a bit further.

[00:28:34] Ross: It's, it's called a, A physicalizing exercise.

[00:28:36] Andrea: Yeah.

[00:28:37] Andrea: also the one about, I always remember this one, again, where you have a feeling or a thought and not getting hooked into it and engaging with it, but actually just noticing it, observing it, which is also that mindfulness piece, isn't it? And we did this exercise where we just put it on our lap. So rather than holding it, we had to hold it out in front of first and and feel like, oh gosh, the how your arms start to ache after a while. What's it like when you just put it on your lap? Just sit with it.

[00:29:06] Andrea: So it's still there, but you are not like giving it your full attention.

[00:29:10] A place of acceptance

[00:29:10] Andrea: So things like that, I really remember it and used, and the acceptance part I find interesting because what I found is that the collage helps clients move to a place of acceptance. The type of acceptance is described in a c t rather than capitulation resignation that, oh, this is how it is for me, and that's the end of it.

[00:29:32] Andrea: But actually this is my situation. These are my feelings or thought. And I can be with those and recognize that they're there, but them not stopping me from moving forward, them not hindering me or overwhelming me. Just accepting them but knowing you can still change your situation. and it was interesting when I wrote the book, because there were there six or seven client reflections and without fail, every single [00:30:00] one of them said their collage just helped 'em move to this place of acceptance.

[00:30:04] Andrea: Well, I was straight away. I thought acceptance commitment therapy. I thought it was straight away. And some of them had created their collage three years ago. Some had been six months ago. So it didn't matter about the timeframe. It still enabled this

[00:30:16] These opposites can co-exist

[00:30:16] Andrea: and, and sitting with things that seemed diametrically opposed as well because they appear on the collage together.

[00:30:23] Andrea: Clients are guided to gather, all images that resonate with them if they make them feel uncomfortable, which one of the big differences with the vision board. but they allow, clients to see actually these two, what we would normally call opposing or opposites. Coexist. They coexist in my mind, but they can coexist on the paper as well.

[00:30:41] Andrea: There's something about seeing it outside of themselves that that helps with that acceptance piece.

[00:30:47] Ross: I really do agree that that bringing it out there and having a look at it, whether you are writing down your thoughts, whether you are doing some sort of meditative exercise. Can really help us start to change our relationship with that and, and realize that there are other possibilities.

[00:31:05] Ross: it's really, so powerful how you've combined act and other approaches the collage coaching technique.

[00:31:12] Ross: So, Andrea, thank you so much for being so open and reflective. I think we're really getting to know your, your style and your motivation for writing the book, which we'll come onto in, in part two of our chat. But I've got a question for you.

[00:31:25] Ross: it's what would be your song choice that would announce your arrival in a room, whether it's a real room or a virtual room for the next few weeks? It's not forever something I ask all my guests and I just wondered what your song choice would be.

[00:31:37] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, when you asked me this, I had to think of there was the idea of walking into a room and the, the song that would come out. And for me it's, Jimmy Cliffs. I can see clearly now. For anyone who doesn't know it, I'm really tempted to sing. Right. okay, , here we go. I can see clearly now the rain is gone. [00:32:00] I can see your obstacles in my way. Dark clouds down. It's gonna be a

[00:32:16] Ross: Gonna be a bride. Bride. Sunshine Day. Oh, Peace Supers. I think you'll agree with me. What a rendition of Jimmy Cliff. I can see clearly. Now I might not even need to play it in the background, cuz you've brought it to life so beautifully.

[00:32:35] Ross: Andrea, thank you.

[00:32:36] Ross: I might imagine why you chose that, but just just tell me why that resonates with you.

[00:32:41] Andrea: Yeah, it's, there's a couple of reasons. it's really uplifting that song, and there was a period near the beginning, beginning middle of my journey with UnglueYou to date, where, you know, I was talking about the pick acts. And we feel like, again, and, to stay motivated can be quite hard. especially if you're, you're by yourself.

[00:33:01] Andrea: You're the only one doing this thing, and nobody understands it, or it feels like very few people do or are interested, and, to keep motivated. I, I would listen to, to songs and I remember one day going for a walk and, and this song, things have came into my head and I thought, yeah, I can, I can do this. I can keep going.

[00:33:20] Andrea: It's, it's gonna be a bright sunshine day. And I felt so positive. And so for now, after I'd written the book, I've had such clarity about the collage coaching technique. It was the book that gave it the name because I thought I need to actually give it a name now because I didn't have one. and it had be in this journey of finding my way with it, trying this, trying with this group delivering like this. And I'm like, This is it. And so that I can see clearly. Now that line refers to that. I am so certain and so sure. what it is, what it's called, how it works, why it works,[00:34:00] who my client group are that I'm going to, work with.

[00:34:04] Andrea: As I said, it's so broad scope come up with so many people now and I did that, but now I'm like, no, this is who I will work with. The coaches I train, they can then work with their specific client groups, whether it's around sobriety or career change, redundancy, whatever. So it's still impacting in all these different areas.

[00:34:22] Andrea: And in time I would like to do like a c t, right. You know, coaching for with coll for loss coaching, with coll for,

[00:34:31] Andrea: that's where one of the directions I see it going in. But it was that sense of, I can see clearly now. That's it. Pup's part one in the bag. Thanks so much to Andrea for bringing passion, creativity, and storytelling to people's Soup. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did, and let us know what you think on the socials or drop me an email. The links are in the show notes, and if you sign up for Andrea's new.

[00:34:59] Ross: You'll get a code for 20% off her brilliant book Collage is a creative coaching tool, which we'll talk more about in the next episode.

[00:35:07] Ross: If you like this episode of the podcast, please, could you do three things? Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe to the podcast and give us a five star review. Whatever platform you're on, and particularly if you're on Apple Podcasts, the Apple charts are really important in the podcast industry.

[00:35:26] Ross: And number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This will all help us reach more people with stuff that could be. I'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at people soup dot pod gmail.com. On Twitter, we are at People Soup Pod on Instagram at People dot Soup.

[00:35:43] Ross: And on Facebook we are at People Soup Pod. thanks to Andy Klan for his Spoon Magic. And Alex Engelberg for his vocal. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves. Peace supers and bye for now. it so well that I, I'm not [00:36:00] even considering it like a podcast. I'm just talking with Ross.

[00:36:03] Ross: Perfect. Perfect. Thank you.